I was just thinking about this...a lot of the really old cases were solved not long after they first aired. Thus, the versions we have come to know have always been "updated" and the resolution known. This got me thinking about how it must have felt to see some of these stories back in the day before they were solved. Would you think any differently if....

Jon Yount and Diane Brodbeck were not caught? One theory proposed in the segment was that Yount manipulated Brodbeck and killed her after his escape. Would you believe this?

If Patty Stallings had not been exonerated? Would we be having Darlie Routier-esque debates about her guilt or innocence?

If the Redwood City arsonist was never caught? Would you realize it was some teenager with mental problems?

I'll add more as I think of them...

As uncomfortable as it is to admit, I'm nearly certain I would've thought Patty Stallings was guilty had she not been exonerated.

How about Kari Lynn Nixon? Would you have believed the "eyewitness" in South Carolina, or that it was actually Nixon in the NKOTB video?

Gail Delano. She set up the abduction scenario pretty well. If it hadn't been for that update, I would've believed it was more than likely she was abducted. Even with that trucker siting (which stranger eyewitness siting are usually wrong) I still would've believed she was abducted.

What an interesting thread idea, although tough to answer since we can't go back in time or erase our memory. I'll have to give it some thought.

Patty Stallings is an interesting choice since there was a lot left out in the UM segment that didn't paint Patty in the most favorable of lights. I'm not sure what I would have thought.

What an interesting thread idea, although tough to answer since we can't go back in time or erase our memory. I'll have to give it some thought.

Patty Stallings is an interesting choice since there was a lot left out in the UM segment that didn't paint Patty in the most favorable of lights. I'm not sure what I would have thought.

I think I would have leaned towards her guilt, to be brutally honest. Kiddos don't typically just stop breathing and I always raise an eyebrow at the "one-in-a-million" medical disorder explanation.

Thank goodness for forensic testing.


If Mike Reimer's body hadn't been found, I would have been certain he killed Diana. Right up until they found his body, actually, I thought he had killed her.

As uncomfortable as it is to admit, I'm nearly certain I would've thought Patty Stallings was guilty had she not been exonerated.

How about Kari Lynn Nixon? Would you have believed the "eyewitness" in South Carolina, or that it was actually Nixon in the NKOTB video?

Good call with Kari Lynn Nixon. That is a tough one. That particular eyewitness account is strengthened by the fact that the girl not only looked like Kari Lynn Nixon, but also allegedly used her name (as opposed to other eyewitness accounts that are sightings only). Then, factor in the possibility that she was in the NKOTB video, and both pieces of evidence point to her possibly being alive.

I think the cynic in me still would have found the abduction angle more plausible. One of the investigators interviewed mentioned that her actions that night did not fit the actions of a runaway because she didn't take money or any possessions with her. Couple that with the fact that she didn't seem to have any problems at home. I also have to wonder how she would have gotten to SC anyway, and to the NKOTB concert. That all just seems a little too "romantic" and "perfect" for a runaway story. I have to imagine the outcome of most teen runaway stories isn't that ideal.

Re: Patty Stallings, I didn't see her story until Lifetime picked up the series and by that time it was old news and had been solved and updated, so I knew the outcome. I think the segment was heavily whitewashed in her favor though, so, without knowing anything else, I probably would have still leaned toward innocent. It wasn't until I read some articles on the case and some posts on here that I began to see and appreciate the "other side" of the argument. That being said, I still think she was innocent, but I have a better and more clear understanding of WHY she was convicted at all, but that perspective was not something gleaned through UM's biased presentation.

I can draw an analogy between Yount and Brodbeck and Dial and Parker. Although Yount and Brodbeck were caught before my time watching the show, I DID see the Dial and Parker case on NBC many years before they were caught. I always felt they were alive and together, FWIW.

Based solely off of the UM segments alone, I'd think Stuart Heaton and Jeffrey MacDonald were innocent.

As for Patty Stallings, IIRC, the segment mentioned a medical ailment for the Stallings' younger son that matched what the first baby had died from. Even before the update, I thought she was innocent.

ETA: I never believed that Kari Lynn Nixon was a runaway. That whole theory of her being at the NKOTB concert was laughable to me. How exactly did she get the money to go to a NKOTB concert in the first place? And who runs away to go to a concert?

Certainly Gail Delano and Mike Reimer.

I used to believe that Megadeth man was involved in Deborah Poe's disappearance, but that case has taken some turns since then.

Then there's Sammy Wheeler's murder, which turned out to be a random crime, but Bob Bean's attitude in his interview just lended itself to suspicion.

I always thought the NKOTB sighting was overplayed. Yeah I understand they magnified the image, but it's still trying to match someone to a tiny picture, a face in a crowd, on the opposite end of the country. As much as I feel for her family, I think they were grasping at straws. And to think, even though it's been proven that it wasn't Kari, there are still people that believe that was her!

No on Omar. Pretty obvious that's a youth's voice in a bad attempt to sound like somebody else.

As for Patty Stallings, IIRC, the segment mentioned a medical ailment for the Stallings' younger son that matched what the first baby had died from. Even before the update, I thought she was innocent.

Indeed. The segment also mentioned that the 2 minute time period the prosecution accused her of poisoning Ryan (ending up in his death) took three full days before he showed any signs of any sickness. What kind of poison can enter your system and take 72 hours to kill you?

My mentality when I first saw that segment as an 11 year old was that she was innocent, as soon as it was mentioned that the Stallings second baby got all the same symptoms as Ryan while Patty was locked up in prison.

In defense of the Nixon family in regards to the NKOTB video, this was the quote by Kari's mother...

"It looks like Kari but I'm not 100% convinced."

It might have been grasping at straws somewhat but at the same time, she was being a realist. If the "witness" from the campground had not come forward saying she met Kari, I don't think it would have been as easy for the Nixons to believe that she could have ended up somewhere in another part of the country.

Here's an interesting question: before he was cleared by DNA testing, did anyone genuinely believe Jeff Oberholzer might be guilty of the Orange Sock murders?

I remember when the Orange Sock case used to be posted on the forbidden site, it was split into two parts. It was quite amusing to see the comments on Part One, as a lot of people seemed convinced he was guilty and found it very suspicious that Jeff just happened to see his wife's backpack in a field from a distance while he was searching for her. Of course, these people wound up eating crow after viewing Part Two of the video, where they revealed that Jeff had been exonerated.

Of course, on the basis of his interview alone, it was pretty difficult to imagine Jeff Oberholzer being a killer, as he obviously seemed a lot more sincere that most of the suspected spouses on UM, but I'm curious if anyone ever felt differently.

As for Patty Stallings, IIRC, the segment mentioned a medical ailment for the Stallings' younger son that matched what the first baby had died from. Even before the update, I thought she was innocent.

I may be wrong, but I thought that there were some prosecutorial actions that blocked the jury from ever hearing about the second child's diagnosis. I thought the prosecutor went so far as to say (on UM) it was irrelevant as it was impossible to know if the first baby had the disorder.

Here's an interesting question: before he was cleared by DNA testing, did anyone genuinely believe Jeff Oberholzer might be guilty of the Orange Sock murders?

I remember when the Orange Sock case used to be posted on the forbidden site, it was split into two parts. It was quite amusing to see the comments on Part One, as a lot of people seemed convinced he was guilty and found it very suspicious that Jeff just happened to see his wife's backpack in a field from a distance while he was searching for her. Of course, these people wound up eating crow after viewing Part Two of the video, where they revealed that Jeff had been exonerated.

Of course, on the basis of his interview alone, it was pretty difficult to imagine Jeff Oberholzer being a killer, as he obviously seemed a lot more sincere that most of the suspected spouses on UM, but I'm curious if anyone ever felt differently.

Pre-update featuring the blurb about police no longer consider Oberholzer a suspect, I did have reservations about him. The backpack sighting, and the business card found on Annette Schnee gave me pause. That was one weird coincidence though.

I may be wrong, but I thought that there were some prosecutorial actions that blocked the jury from ever hearing about the second child's diagnosis. I thought the prosecutor went so far as to say (on UM) it was irrelevant as it was impossible to know if the first baby had the disorder.

This was one of the few final appeal segments where I didn't think UM did a 'whitewash' job. The evidence for poisoning was never there. She had alibis, there were multiple witnesses, and her younger son had the exact same illness while she was waiting in prison.

If Patty Stallings had not been exonerated? Would we be having Darlie Routier-esque debates about her guilt or innocence?

That's an interesting connection. Since Patty Stallings turned out to be innocent, is there a chance Darlie could be too? I think so. It should be noted the whole "she's guilty because the dog didn't bark" theory was debunked by the ONS/EAR just recently.

This was one of the few final appeal segments where I didn't think UM did a 'whitewash' job. The evidence for poisoning was never there. She had alibis, there were multiple witnesses, and her younger son had the exact same illness while she was waiting in prison.

I guess my point was that if the jury never heard that Patty Stallings gave birth to a second son who had MMA, I could see their rationale in finding her guilty.

I think UM left out the fact that she had another child who died (before the other two) of malnutrition. I think she told CPS that she was too poor to afford for proper care/treatment. I could see that making her look bad and it was left out of the UM broadcast.

That's an interesting connection. Since Patty Stallings turned out to be innocent, is there a chance Darlie could be too? I think so. It should be noted the whole "she's guilty because the dog didn't bark" theory was debunked by the ONS/EAR just recently.

Aside from the fact that they are both mothers who were charged with and convicted of killing their children, I don't see the connection.

I guess my point was that if the jury never heard that Patty Stallings gave birth to a second son who had MMA, I could see their rationale in finding her guilty.

I think UM left out the fact that she had another child who died (before the other two) of malnutrition. I think she told CPS that she was too poor to afford for proper care/treatment. I could see that making her look bad and it was left out of the UM broadcast.

With the way the case was presented in court, I don't see any fault with the jury's guilty verdict.

But based off of the UM segment, I never thought she was guilty. I don't know if her first child actually died, or was just found in poor care.

Pre-update featuring the blurb about police no longer consider Oberholzer a suspect, I did have reservations about him. The backpack sighting, and the business card found on Annette Schnee gave me pause. That was one weird coincidence though.

Yeah, I too had reservations about Jeff's business card being found in Annette Schnee's wallet. But then I remembered that he denied knowing her at first and voluntarily went to the police and told them about giving her the business card after he recognized her photo in the paper. These clearly seemed like the actions of a man with nothing to hide.

Yeah, I too had reservations about Jeff's business card being found in Annette Schnee's wallet. But then I remembered that he denied knowing her at first and voluntarily went to the police and told them about giving her the business card after he recognized her photo in the paper. These clearly seemed like the actions of a man with nothing to hide.

Going to the police and telling them about picking up Annette on that one occasion saved him, since DNA testing wouldn't be available for another decade or so.

I guess I can see at first glance how that and the discovery of the backpack might seem suspicious. Although I later learned (through the book 'Monster') that Unsolved Mysteries got the setup of that discovery wrong.

After the farmer found Bobbi's drivers license on his property, he called Jeff. At that point, Jeff asked his brother to go pick up the license. Then, since the police wouldn't get involved, Jeff had surmised that whoever flung the license on the property had to driven right past the farm the night before and other evidence might be nearby. So Jeff asked his two friends to accompany him along the the entire lonely stretch of highway between Alma and the farm in Como, slowly and painstakingly observing everything they could until they spotted the backpack and mittens. It wasn't like in the reenactment where they just so happened to glance over and notice these things.

It would have been somewhat believable that Amy Billig was spotted later if we didn't know what we now know about how she probably died. Even Susan Billig herself said that person people kept thinking was Amy looked a lot like her. Same goes for the Lisa Kimmell case.

This was one of the few final appeal segments where I didn't think UM did a 'whitewash' job. The evidence for poisoning was never there. She had alibis, there were multiple witnesses, and her younger son had the exact same illness while she was waiting in prison.

Given that from what I heard, Patty had previously come to social services attention after one of her kids, not the one who died of the rare condition, had malnutrition and frostbite...I don't think it was unreasonable for the police to investigate and ask "Could this death be murder?" when her first son died. Granted they were wrong to keep treating her as a murderer even as evidence tilted in her favor, but still.

Good call with Kari Lynn Nixon. That is a tough one. That particular eyewitness account is strengthened by the fact that the girl not only looked like Kari Lynn Nixon, but also allegedly used her name (as opposed to other eyewitness accounts that are sightings only). Then, factor in the possibility that she was in the NKOTB video, and both pieces of evidence point to her possibly being alive.

I think the cynic in me still would have found the abduction angle more plausible. One of the investigators interviewed mentioned that her actions that night did not fit the actions of a runaway because she didn't take money or any possessions with her. Couple that with the fact that she didn't seem to have any problems at home. I also have to wonder how she would have gotten to SC anyway, and to the NKOTB concert. That all just seems a little too "romantic" and "perfect" for a runaway story. I have to imagine the outcome of most teen runaway stories isn't that ideal.


I can provide some context in regards to the Nixon case as it was one of a handful of episodes that I saw prior to it being solved. I remember it airing on "Lifetime" around 1992 with the "Flint, Michigan" tag still attached. I thought then (and tragically this turned out to be the case) that Nixon was the victim of some type of assault. I didn't necessarily plug in the abduction scenario because the SC sighting along with the corresponding letter caught me off guard. At the time I really thought there was something to all that.

What I believed happened was that Nixon was assaulted on the night of her disappearance and somehow sustained a loss of memory (amnesia) and was traveling around the country perhaps not knowing anything other than her name. I know it sounds completely implausible now but at the time, I took at lot of these cases verbatim. For whatever reason I never thought her to be a runway probably because like JS states she didn't seem to have any problems at home. I also agree that a lot of the various scenarios that would've placed Nixon in SC or California would've seemed a little too convenient but the SC sighting in particular was pretty convincing especially when we didn't have any context. That being said, again going back to the letters, those threw me as well as it seemed as if someone had information on the whereabouts of Kari Nixon but were unwilling/unable to elaborate any further for some mysterious reason. So that got me down the road of thinking that maybe the letter writer was somehow a party to Nixon's disappearance. In the end it seemed to be a cruel and perhaps well orchestrated hoax.

For what it's worth as we all know the Nixon family spent several years chasing down these types of leads so it's not as if those of our who gave them credence were the only ones to do so. There had to be something at least somewhat credible about them to make them worthy of investigation, even if it was just false hope in the end.

Well I'll offer one for submission: Roger Wheeler Sr.

When I first saw this case I was unaware of Whitey Bulger's connection to the death of Wheeler. The segment clearly stated that these were gangland style killings but Bulger was never implicated in the segment so unless you had information as to fact that the three individuals named in the segment (Halloran, Callahan, Martorano) all had ties to Bulger, you wouldn't be able to connect him to the case.

I've been meaning to pick up a book on the Wheeler case that was published last year in hopes of gaining some context as to what the authorities actually knew in regards to who may have been responsible for Wheeler's death at the time the segment aired (1987). Remember the investigator actually named the triggerman (Martorano), during the segment but did not mention what his exact involvement was with the case aside from the fact that he was wanted for sports tampering.

As I mentioned the whole segment smelled of mafia but given David Wheeler's comments, I'm not entirely sure that in 1987 he had any idea what organized crime family was behind his father's murder. In fact I remember reading that David Wheeler eventually developed some type of computer software in hopes of using it to track down his father's killer but the program was unsuccessful in identifying a suspect. That would lead me to believe that David Wheeler was probably still in the dark in 1987 as to Bulger's involvement in his father's murder. I also remember the investigators mentioning that for years their investigation into Wheeler's death was impeded by the actions of FBI agent Paul Rico who was later of course indicted in connection with the case. So he may have been the one ultimately responsible for preventing the authorities from making the link between Halloran, Callahan & Martorano and Whitey Bulger.

What is still a mystery to me is how does Luis Viaguyo fit in? If you remember the only update ever aired on this case focused on this individual and the fact that he confessed to an undercover FBI agent that "nobody would ever be able to pin the Wheeler murder on him". Well as it turns out Viaguyo was right because he didn't murder Wheeler. So his involvement/comments have always been a bit of mystery to me.

It's probably time for me to pick up that book. :lol:

It would have been somewhat believable that Amy Billig was spotted later if we didn't know what we now know about how she probably died. Even Susan Billig herself said that person people kept thinking was Amy looked a lot like her. Same goes for the Lisa Kimmell case.

I would have been more inclined to believe the Lisa Kimmell sightings than most eyewitness accounts, since they said she appeared to be driving her car with the distinctive "Lil' Miss" license plate.

In regards to Kari Lynn Nixon, I think what led me to believe she might have possibly runaway wasn't so much the NKOTB video, but her friend's comment that she dreamt and talked about running away to California. Nowadays, I realize how close the Nixon family is, but back when I first saw the segment, I wondered if there were some things stewing in Kari Lynn that might have prompted her to runaway.

If the Redwood City arsonist was never caught? Would you realize it was some teenager with mental problems?

He always sounded like a kid to me. What he did was awful and he was no doubt, very disturbed. I'm glad he got caught and hopefully got the help he needed. But I never got chills listening to that tape. Had it been a man's voice with a low, dark tone...the creepy factor would have been multiplied.

Given that from what I heard, Patty had previously come to social services attention after one of her kids, not the one who died of the rare condition, had malnutrition and frostbite...I don't think it was unreasonable for the police to investigate and ask "Could this death be murder?" when her first son died. Granted they were wrong to keep treating her as a murderer even as evidence tilted in her favor, but still.

Yes I understand that.

But Patty's defense attorney did not present any expert testimony about MMA and how the effects are very similar to antifreeze poisoning. I don't think she got the best counsel at her trial. But at the time of the UM segment, there were tons of doctors who came to her defense (one even appeared on camera, IIRC) and there was also a ton of evidence (her second child having the same symptoms) that she was not guilty.

I can provide some context in regards to the Nixon case as it was one of a handful of episodes that I saw prior to it being solved. I remember it airing on "Lifetime" around 1992 with the "Flint, Michigan" tag still attached. I thought then (and tragically this turned out to be the case) that Nixon was the victim of some type of assault. I didn't necessarily plug in the abduction scenario because the SC sighting along with the corresponding letter caught me off guard. At the time I really thought there was something to all that.

What I believed happened was that Nixon was assaulted on the night of her disappearance and somehow sustained a loss of memory (amnesia) and was traveling around the country perhaps not knowing anything other than her name. I know it sounds completely implausible now but at the time, I took at lot of these cases verbatim. For whatever reason I never thought her to be a runway probably because like JS states she didn't seem to have any problems at home. I also agree that a lot of the various scenarios that would've placed Nixon in SC or California would've seemed a little too convenient but the SC sighting in particular was pretty convincing especially when we didn't have any context. That being said, again going back to the letters, those threw me as well as it seemed as if someone had information on the whereabouts of Kari Nixon but were unwilling/unable to elaborate any further for some mysterious reason. So that got me down the road of thinking that maybe the letter writer was somehow a party to Nixon's disappearance. In the end it seemed to be a cruel and perhaps well orchestrated hoax.

Those letters from Flint, Michigan certainly were bizarre. I've often wondered what the exact contents of those letters were and why the police seemed to (at the time) promote them as credible. I'm not usually one for off the wall thinking, but I wonder if Jones wrote the letters in an effort to throw the cops off and/or mess with the family. The guy was apparently neurotic enough to repeatedly check on the burial site.

Gail Delano. She set up the abduction scenario pretty well. If it hadn't been for that update, I would've believed it was more than likely she was abducted. Even with that trucker siting (which stranger eyewitness siting are usually wrong) I still would've believed she was abducted.

Agree here! I would have thought she had been abducted, for sure.

The Sammy Wheeler segment for sure. Bob Bean was so good at being the quirky, shifty suspect. Makes you wonder if he actually did commit a crime later on in life.

Then there's Brook Baker. Lots of potential ripe suspects (the frat brothers she was investigating for date rape; the campus police officer that was her landlord whom she accused of peeping and spying on her) but it turns out her murder was a crime of opportunity by her boyfriend's roommate. If it hadn't been solved, people would still suspect either the frat brothers or the landlord silenced her so their perverted habits wouldn't be exposed.

I can't exactly remember which ones I saw before or after they were solved. Jeff Olberholtzer may be one that certainly stands out because I did think he was guilty, but I think I saw if before it was solved. another note it is disappointing how LE basically locked onto jeff (just as he says in the segment). When you watch it now it is almost like ok the only thing that connected them was a business card?

Lisa Kimmell as well being missing or victim of foul play. I feel like people probably did see her car which is why they are so sure that they saw her, but could have had their days mixed up.

Gail Delano defintely stands out....I was heartbroken for her family to see that update.

Arthur Paul Beal("Tyler" Amnesia case)...I think I saw that one for the first time with the update and was shocked that he was wanted for larceny. I would have never guessed that without the update.

Christophe Day....talk about one of my worst update moments ever. I saw that one for the first time in 2003. when the update flashed I expected to see a happy reunion.