I know Mackenzie Phillips was back on drugs and couldn't continue, but it seems like they could have had a better ending for her character. I know Julie had problems, but I think running off and leaving her family, especially her child, was out of character. Julie wouldn't have done that. She said one time in an earlier episode that she could never get divorced because she just couldn't do that to her kids. And then she does even worse, she runs off and leaves her husband and child!! I don't see that as being consistent with her character. They could have had Max and Julie just move somewhere. And, if they didn't want to fire the actor who played Max, they could have had him appear in some way. There would have been a better way to do it. Actually, this show probably ran one season too long. Probably should have ended after season 8 or even season 7. It was starting to get bad even if Mackenzie had stayed.

I hate that Julie just abandoned her family. Julie was so overjoyed with the baby when she gave birth and then she just dumps her and the husband? Horrible! That was such a terrible ending for the character of Julie... so selfish and cruel.

What other options did they have? Kill her off? Send her to Jail? I guess they chose the lesser of the evils!

I think that was a horrible way to have Julie leave the show! And poor Mackenzie Phillips, like she didn't have enough problems with her drug addiction. In order to be as bad as she was into it, she must have really had self esteem issues and was feeling bad enough! Than the writers had to even make her TV character bad! People associate the real actor or actress with their character , so she didn't need any more negativity.

I think they should have just had her leave the husband but take the baby with her. Nothing would have been that horrible about that! Or like Julietx posted , have her and Max move away! I'm thinking too the show should have just ended before that point. It ran it's course already!

I wonder if they thought of recasting instead of essentially ruining her character.

I think that was a horrible way to have Julie leave the show! And poor Mackenzie Phillips, like she didn't have enough problems with her drug addiction. In order to be as bad as she was into it, she must have really had self esteem issues and was feeling bad enough! Than the writers had to even make her TV character bad! People associate the real actor or actress with their character , so she didn't need any more negativity.

I think they should have just had her leave the husband but take the baby with her. Nothing would have been that horrible about that! Or like Julietx posted , have her and Max move away! I'm thinking too the show should have just ended before that point. It ran it's course already!

Yes, it would have softened the character if she and Max broke up and they shared custody. That would have explained her absence and not made her a deadbeat mother.

It's like when they killed off Nick in season 7. They could have handled that better. Why did they kill that dude off? There were so many other ways they could have handled that

Yes, it would have softened the character if she and Max broke up and they shared custody. That would have explained her absence and not made her a deadbeat mother.


Yeah, it would have been much better!

Anna I like your Lucy Avatar picture! :)

Yeah, it would have been much better!

Anna I like your Lucy Avatar picture! :)

Thanks, Bonniegirl! I was admiring your Blondie and Dagwood, avatar.:)

It's like when they killed off Nick in season 7. They could have handled that better. Why did they kill that dude off? There were so many other ways they could have handled that


Absolutely! Couldn't Nick and Ann have broken up and remained friendly and the writers have Nick move away for a job opportunity out of the country. He could have offered to bring Alex with him and have Alex opt to finish his schooling here. He could have even lived nearby with his mother and visit the Romano/Coopers frequently.

No need to abruptly kill Nick off, seemed like a slap in the face to the actor. At least unlike Ginny, we knew what happened to him.

BTW, did Rifkin and Franklin get along? Rumor has it Bonnie has Mary Louise Wilson written out because she stole too many scenes.

What other options did they have? Kill her off? Send her to Jail? I guess they chose the lesser of the evils!
Even killing her off would have been better than having her abandon her family.

I think the best solution would have been for her to just leave Max and share custody of the baby. The fact that they had Julie abandon her baby was a hateful thing to do.

Guys, color me surprised. I only watched up to season 9, episode 1, of the marathon so I didnt know that Julie left her family. Wow. I guess there was no other alternative. Unless, she was being blackmailed or kidnapped or something. I had no idea Julie did that. Plus, I had no idea about Nick either. I thought Nick was kind of pushy but thats me.

I will say the drugs had there effect on Mack. I watched the season 9, episode 1, and boy, she looked like a skeleton. Just sad.

Guys, color me surprised. I only watched up to season 9, episode 1, of the marathon so I didnt know that Julie left her family. Wow. I guess there was no other alternative. Unless, she was being blackmailed or kidnapped or something. I had no idea Julie did that. Plus, I had no idea about Nick either. I thought Nick was kind of pushy but thats me.

I will say the drugs had there effect on Mack. I watched the season 9, episode 1, and boy, she looked like a skeleton. Just sad.


Yeah it's sad! Like I said before Mack was having so many problems in real life and to make it worse have her character leave the show in a very bad light too! :( And to add insult to injury, Valerie Bertinelli was portrayed to be such a wholesome good girl ( as Barbara and in real life). Than she married Eddie Van Halen. Van Halen was one of the most popular bands back than. So everything was going great for her and Mack's life was spiraling way down the hill! :(

I mean don't get me wrong, Val deserved good things, I'm happy that her life was going good, but so sad that Mack's wasn't going good as well! :(

Considering that the producers had already fired Michael Lembeck once before because of Mackenzie's drug issues, maybe they figured that they would feel too guilt ridden to do that to him again or even too guilt ridden to reduce his role. Of course this is just speculation. Another possibility is that the producers were already thinking about the possibility of doing a 10th season and they were considering hiring a 4 year old to play little Annie in an attempt to boost ratings. Again, this is just speculation. Wawwie had a good idea about Max and Julie having joint custody. That's probably the route that the producers should have taken.

BTW, did Rifkin and Franklin get along?
I remember reading a review of his book and it said that Rifkin called Bonnie Franklin a bad actress.

I disagree with Ron's assessment of Bonnie Franklin's acting. I thought that she was quite good. She played that role well.

Now, in regards to Mackenzie Phillips; Yes, it was sad but the producers would not have had to resort to such measures had Mack been more responsible. Next to Ms. Franklin, she was most likely making more money than any other cast member at the time. If she was going to be using drugs, then she should have pulled a "CYA"!!! She should have eaten to keep up her weight and appearance. If wardrobe has to pad you with extra clothes and the director has to film your shots from a distance, that's a RED FLAG! She was three eps in to the season. I think by the fourth, they had enough. Bonnie Franklin said she recommended that Mack be let go.

I am glad that Julie wasn't killed off. It would have bettered the chances of her to return if the show continued.

^^^ So, you're fine with the Julie character dumping her baby and husband. You're okay with her being a dead beat mother? Cuz that was the end for her. The writers totally destroyed her character beyond any kind of redemption. She did not have to be written off that way.

^^^ So, you're fine with the Julie character dumping her baby and husband. You're okay with her being a dead beat mother? Cuz that was the end for her. The writers totally destroyed her character beyond any kind of redemption. She did not have to be written off that way.


And you would be fine with her being killed off? No chance! At least she could have come back into the fold had the show continued. They could not keep referring to her for the half a season that they did after she left in the ninth season.

Julie was out of town at a manager business trip for the doughnut shop she worked at.

Julie was at work.

Julie was at home with the baby while everyone else was at Ann and Sam's

Ann finds out that all knew of Sam keeping his other apt from everybody there but JULIE IS NOT THERE! Then Ann says "Julie knows too?"

At Christmas, everyone is gathered at Ann's place and it is announced that all will be on the cruise but Julie is not there and it is announced that "Julie's coming too".

How long could they keep this up? Back in 1988, as a kid, when I first watched the show in the last season, I was like "who's Julie?"

Unfortunately, things like this do happen in real life. I would have been mad if Julie was killed off. Besides, the rest of that season would have been too depressing. Having her disappear was the lesser of three evils. It also mirrored with Mack walking from the show after she was asked to take that drug test.

Maybe break down that 4th wall and be honest about Mack's problems? I really dont know how to handle that. Unless, they say she was kidnapped or had an accident and she's in some hospital. Now, again, I'm not privvy as to the 9th season but Julie never came back after episode 3, right? I would have had Ann or somebody say that she was in the hospital or something.

I disagree with Ron's assessment of Bonnie Franklin's acting.

It was Alan Rafkin that called Bonnie Franklin a bad actress. I got Alan Rafkin and Ron Rifkin mixed up. Sorry about that.

http://www.marksfriggin.com/news99/3-8-99.htm

Producer/Director Alan Rafkin Calls In. 3/8/99. 8:45am
Producer/ Director Alan Rafkin called in to promote his book ''Cue the Bunny on the Rainbow: Tales from Tv's Most Prolific Sitcom Director.'' Alan has directed many TV sitcoms since the 1960's and has written a book where he just speaks his mind about some of the actors he's worked with. He's directed such shows as ''Bewitched'', ''Andy Griffith'', ''Love American Style'', ''One Day at a Time'', ''Sanford and Son'', ''Mash'', ''The Partridge Family'', ''Murphy Brown'', ''Veronica's Closet'' and a bunch of others. Howard found out that Alan has enjoyed his fame since he started out in the business by banging women left and right. He's still single and enjoying it. He did marry Melissa Gilbert's mother but that only lasted 13 weeks. Alan told Howard that he enjoyed him in his movie ''Private Parts'' and said he thought someone else was playing the part of Howard since he'd never seen him before. He told him he was ''wonderful'' in the part. He and Howard then went on to talk about some of the many celebrities he bad mouths in his book. They started out with Arthur Godfrey who Alan calls a *****, a bigot and antisemitic. Jackie Mason was very hard to work with and Alan said that when he had to kiss Lynn Redgrave in a scene he was unable to look at it.. ''Yuck'' he said to Howard about it. Alan said that Redd Foxx was the sweetest man but there were a lot of drugs on the set and they actually had to wipe cocaine away from his face while filming. Alan didn't like Redd's co-star Demond Wilson because he was a phony. He also said that Bonnie Franklin from ''One Day at a Time'' was a bad actress. He said that Tony Randall was a pain in the neck on the first episode of ''The Odd Couple'' but Jack Klugman was a great guy. He also bad mouths Fran Dresher's show ''The Nanny'' saying it's unwatchable. He said that he doesn't like all of the stereotypes they use in the show. He thinks that Rosie O'Donnell is a fraud because she pretends to be so nice but she used to be a dirty comedian. Alan now works on the NBC sitcom ''Suddenly Susan'' and said that Brooke Shields is one of the nicest people to work with. He also said that there are only 2 shows on TV that he'll watch, ''Everybody Loves Raymond'' and sometimes ''Frasier''. Everything else is just bad according to Mr. Rafkin. Howard said he loves the book because Alan was honest with his feelings about the celebrities he's worked with.

It was Alan Rafkin that called Bonnie Franklin a bad actress. I got Alan Rafkin and Ron Rifkin mixed up. Sorry about that.

http://www.marksfriggin.com/news99/3-8-99.htm

Producer/Director Alan Rafkin Calls In. 3/8/99. 8:45am
Producer/ Director Alan Rafkin called in to promote his book ''Cue the Bunny on the Rainbow: Tales from Tv's Most Prolific Sitcom Director.'' Alan has directed many TV sitcoms since the 1960's and has written a book where he just speaks his mind about some of the actors he's worked with. He's directed such shows as ''Bewitched'', ''Andy Griffith'', ''Love American Style'', ''One Day at a Time'', ''Sanford and Son'', ''Mash'', ''The Partridge Family'', ''Murphy Brown'', ''Veronica's Closet'' and a bunch of others. Howard found out that Alan has enjoyed his fame since he started out in the business by banging women left and right. He's still single and enjoying it. He did marry Melissa Gilbert's mother but that only lasted 13 weeks. Alan told Howard that he enjoyed him in his movie ''Private Parts'' and said he thought someone else was playing the part of Howard since he'd never seen him before. He told him he was ''wonderful'' in the part. He and Howard then went on to talk about some of the many celebrities he bad mouths in his book. They started out with Arthur Godfrey who Alan calls a *****, a bigot and antisemitic. Jackie Mason was very hard to work with and Alan said that when he had to kiss Lynn Redgrave in a scene he was unable to look at it.. ''Yuck'' he said to Howard about it. Alan said that Redd Foxx was the sweetest man but there were a lot of drugs on the set and they actually had to wipe cocaine away from his face while filming. Alan didn't like Redd's co-star Demond Wilson because he was a phony. He also said that Bonnie Franklin from ''One Day at a Time'' was a bad actress. He said that Tony Randall was a pain in the neck on the first episode of ''The Odd Couple'' but Jack Klugman was a great guy. He also bad mouths Fran Dresher's show ''The Nanny'' saying it's unwatchable. He said that he doesn't like all of the stereotypes they use in the show. He thinks that Rosie O'Donnell is a fraud because she pretends to be so nice but she used to be a dirty comedian. Alan now works on the NBC sitcom ''Suddenly Susan'' and said that Brooke Shields is one of the nicest people to work with. He also said that there are only 2 shows on TV that he'll watch, ''Everybody Loves Raymond'' and sometimes ''Frasier''. Everything else is just bad according to Mr. Rafkin. Howard said he loves the book because Alan was honest with his feelings about the celebrities he's worked with.
Well that's his opinion. She might have been a lot of things behind the scenes...I don't know, but she wasn't a bad actress.

Cool! Thanks! Seems like an interesting read.

I didnt mind Ann on One Day at a Time. He says she was a bad actress but I wonder what other cast members thought about her?

Yeah that sounds like a awful way to close out a character of a family sitcom. Why couldn't they just say she left to the family and left with her boyfriend and baby

I wonder if they thought of recasting instead of essentially ruining her character.

Interesting notion. Who would've been candidates for the role back then? Mack was born in late 1959. How about Lea Thompson, born in May 1961?
http://www.zenestex.com/images/leathompson5.jpg

I dont think I'd recast. Mack WAS the Julie character.

I dont think I'd recast. Mack WAS the Julie character.


Me either. It was already so late in the series. How much longer did they expect to still be on? It wouldn't make sense to recast her that late in the series. If it was first or second season maybe. But as it got later in the show , it would be hard to recast a person we all got so used to!

I dont think I'd recast. Mack WAS the Julie character.


Enough said!!! :clap :clap :thanks:

Oh, thank you Thomas. I'm beginning to blush.

I think Lea Thompson would have been too sweet in persona and physicality for the rough around the edges Julie but who knows maybe she could have pulled off the role.

How about Jennifer Jason Leigh?

Anyway, anything would have been preferable than turning Julie into a deadbeat mom. Really shoddy writing there. Julie loved her baby and wouldn't have just walked away without explanation.

I liked Max but would it have been so bad if they just wrote the family out so as not to tarnish Julie's character? He and the baby could have come back for visits and refer to Julie being off screen pursuing her career as a designer.

The 'finale' was so sad in that respect. Both Ann and Barbara felt so bad that Julie turned out how she did...I guess could be construed as both the character and Mack in real life.

Yeah, I wouldnt have done that. Say Julie is out of town or something. The thing is thats a better excuse because you could write around her. By season 9, I dont think she was a regular so if it she was in for just a couple appearances per season, then you really dont need a big type of excuse because she would only be in the show very sporadically.

I'd have killed off Julie, it'd have been better, than her just abandoning her family, and I mean her WHOLE family, which she did willingly. They could have had Julie die in a car accident or somehow she died protecting her baby or something

Having Julie abandon her entire family just makes her entire character evil, selfish and hateful. I also agree that killing her off would have been better. The fact that she dumped everyone in her life including her own baby just makes her entire character totally POINTLESS prior to the finale. It's like going to school... making it to 12th grade and then dropping out in May of your senior year... makes NO sense.....

Did they ever explain WHY she left her family?

And you would be fine with her being killed off? No chance!
Unfortunately, things like this do happen in real life. I would have been mad if Julie was killed off. Besides, the rest of that season would have been too depressing. Having her disappear was the lesser of three evils. It also mirrored with Mack walking from the show after she was asked to take that drug test.
Interesting that you think ABANDONING your whole family is the lesser evil. There is nothing "evil" about dying.
Julie was a beloved character that was totally destroyed beyond redemption due to horrendous writing. Abandoning your infant daughter is what is "evil."
Example: On Good Times, James was killed off. He couldn't help that.
What would you think of his character if he instead ABANDONED his family? I adored James and I am glad that he was killed off rather than dump his entire family.

Interesting that you think ABANDONING your whole family is the lesser evil. There is nothing "evil" about dying.
Julie was a beloved character that was totally destroyed beyond redemption due to horrendous writing. Abandoning your infant daughter is what is "evil."
Example: On Good Times, James was killed off. He couldn't help that.
What would you think of his character if he instead ABANDONED his family? I adored James and I am glad that he was killed off rather than dump his entire family.
Ok. I gotta call this one out. We need to remember this is a fictional tv show and stop getting worked up when one has an opinion different from the other. I have a right to respectfully state my own say so. You have responded to my posts with "oh so you think such and such is right" or "it's ok that she did that"? I never said Julie's actions were right but from the writer's perspective leaving the family was the lesser of the two. I should be able to state my pov without some one jumping on my back. I like to keep to keep it peaceful so with that being said, please do the same .

Also, killing the character eliminates any chance of return (deep down, they had to be rooting for Mac).

Also, killing the character eliminates any chance of return (deep down, they had to be rooting for Mac).
Much agreed on that. That is what I was thinking as well.

Also, killing the character eliminates any chance of return (deep down, they had to be rooting for Mac).Those "writers" were not rooting for Mac at all. They found a way to completely destroy her character by painting her as selfish, uncaring and evil. What the character did was unforgivable. Don't know how you can say they were rooting for her. But whatever.

I agree that it was character assassination.

They threw the character under the bus. I suspect it was to make the audience loathe the character so that they wouldn't miss her.

Big mistake. Huge.

All it did was the bring the show down, like killing off Nick. Too much heavy drama for a lighthearted sitcom.

Depressing.

Those "writers" were not rooting for Mac at all. They found a way to completely destroy her character by painting her as selfish, uncaring and evil. What the character did was unforgivable. Don't know how you can say they were rooting for her. But whatever.

I get that you hated the fictional part, but in real life, it was better they left her potential future employment if she had cleaned up and the show had ran longer.

I get that you hated the fictional part, but in real life, it was better they left her potential future employment if she had cleaned up and the show had ran longer.
My point exactly. Folks I get you are passionate but relax.

I think that was a horrible way to have Julie leave the show! And poor Mackenzie Phillips, like she didn't have enough problems with her drug addiction. In order to be as bad as she was into it, she must have really had self esteem issues and was feeling bad enough! Than the writers had to even make her TV character bad! People associate the real actor or actress with their character , so she didn't need any more negativity.

I think they should have just had her leave the husband but take the baby with her. Nothing would have been that horrible about that! Or like Julietx posted , have her and Max move away! I'm thinking too the show should have just ended before that point. It ran it's course already!

OMG!

Bonnie, do you remember this thread from a couple of years ago? :lol: :lol: :lol:

How times have changed. ;) :D

What other options did they have? Kill her off? Send her to Jail? I guess they chose the lesser of the evils!

They could have recast - a risk to try to find someone with chemistry with Bonnie,Val,Pal and the rest but might have been worth it.

You know how many actresses would have killed to play Julie?

...and the recast would have been the first time around, not the second (since the show was already ending)

They could have recast - a risk to try to find someone with chemistry with Bonnie,Val,Pal and the rest but might have been worth it.

You know how many actresses would have killed to play Julie?

...and the recast would have been the first time around, not the second (since the show was already ending)

This guy might have worked. A minimum of credit changing would be needed ....

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0533384/?ref_=tt_cl_t8

This guy might have worked. A minimum of credit changing would be needed ....

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0533384/?ref_=tt_cl_t8

Or even this guy? ;)

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0533383/

I was being serious - a serious discussion of what direction the show might have taken with a recast the first time around

I'm sure there were several known (from guest spots and commercials) actresses in the right age range that didn't have a regular role on any current shows that could have read for the part of Julie.

I was being serious - a serious discussion of what direction the show might have taken with a recast the first time around

I'm sure there were several known (from guest spots and commercials) actresses in the right age range that didn't have a regular role on any current shows that could have read for the part of Julie.

How about Helen Hunt? Just spitballing here. :wave:

I was being serious - a serious discussion of what direction the show might have taken with a recast the first time around

I'm sure there were several known (from guest spots and commercials) actresses in the right age range that didn't have a regular role on any current shows that could have read for the part of Julie.

Opus and Anna were just kidding !!:) We get silly like that here! ;) :D :wave:


We have had that discussion before about Mac being replaced. One of the actresses who's name came up was Kristy Mc Nichol! :)

Anna!!! You and I must have posted at the same time!!!;) :wave: And we also both have avatars with men holding babies!!!! :)

WOW!! Isn't that a cool coincidence ???? :eek: Are we Sister wives or what????;)

Opus and Anna were just kidding !!:) We get silly like that here! ;) :D :wave:


We have had that discussion before about Mac being replaced. One of the actresses who's name came up was Kristy Mc Nichol! :)

I was just thinking about her as well!

She was a big movie star at the time but I thought Debra Winger would have been an awesome, potential Julie recast. :wave:

Anna!!! You and I must have posted at the same time!!!;) :wave: And we also both have avatars with men holding babies!!!! :)

WOW!! Isn't that a cool coincidence ???? :eek: Are we Sister wives or what????;)

We are FOREVER!!!:)

I love a man holding a baby, there is something very appealing about that, although Max's baby is his ;) and Doug is just using that random baby to get back at Carrie about something. :wave: :) :D

I was just thinking about her as well!

She was a big movie star at the time but I thought Debra Winger would have been an awesome, potential Julie recast. :wave:

A couple-three of years earlier, Winger was still doing TV and didn't get her break yet, so she's out.

Mind you, they would have cast someone who could play the big sister but not overshadow Val or overstep Bonnie, (We all know Bonnie had Mary Louise Wilson fired for just that.), and fit in without the audience noticing.

Perhaps they didn't recast since Valerie was older and could be given basically similar plot-lines, except from the "Good Girl" POV. Plus we all know Valerie was the more popular of the two anyway.

A couple-three of years earlier, Winger was still doing TV and didn't get her break yet, so she's out.

Mind you, they would have cast someone who could play the big sister but not overshadow Val or overstep Bonnie, (We all know Bonnie had Mary Louise Wilson fired for just that.), and fit in without the audience noticing.

Perhaps they didn't recast since Valerie was older and could be given basically similar plot-lines, except from the "Good Girl" POV. Plus we all know Valerie was the more popular of the two anyway.


She was already working on To close for comfort , but I think a perfect choice would have been Deborah Van Valkenburgh had she been available.:) I think she would be a believable Sister to Barbara, and she was a comedy TV actress, not too famous!! ;)

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/photopost/data/697/dv3.JPG

We are FOREVER!!!:)

I love a man holding a baby, there is something very appealing about that, although Max's baby is his ;) and Doug is just using that random baby to get back at Carrie about something. :wave: :) :D


Yeah!! Me too! A hot guy holding a cute baby is so adorable!!!:) :wave:

A couple-three of years earlier, Winger was still doing TV and didn't get her break yet, so she's out.

Mind you, they would have cast someone who could play the big sister but not overshadow Val or overstep Bonnie, (We all know Bonnie had Mary Louise Wilson fired for just that.), and fit in without the audience noticing.

Perhaps they didn't recast since Valerie was older and could be given basically similar plot-lines, except from the "Good Girl" POV. Plus we all know Valerie was the more popular of the two anyway.

I think if Mack hadn't had her battle with drugs she would have been just as popular. Certainly her character was more interesting and she was just as good if not better as an actress. (In the beginning, when Valerie was still learning her craft and smirked a lot, I mean ;) ) Her father is hopefully burning in Hell right now, wait did I just write that? :eek: At any rate I don't think anybody we could think of could have played that part any better. Even in the last season when she looked like she was near death she still had good comic timing.

Mary Louise Wilson/Ginny Wroblicki was terribly annoying. I am glad Bonnie had the power to make her go away. :lol: :wave:

But they should have at least given her an exit episode.

She was already working on To close for comfort , but I think a perfect choice would have been Deborah Van Valkenburgh had she been available.:) I think she would be a believable Sister to Barbara, and she was a comedy TV actress, not too famous!! ;)

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/photopost/data/697/dv3.JPG

8 years older than Valerie, but I suppose she could have "played younger".

She was already working on To close for comfort , but I think a perfect choice would have been Deborah Van Valkenburgh had she been available.:) I think she would be a believable Sister to Barbara, and she was a comedy TV actress, not too famous!! ;)

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/photopost/data/697/dv3.JPG

I liked Too Close for Comfort, it was a funny show. :wave:

Yeah!! Me too! A hot guy holding a cute baby is so adorable!!!:) :wave:

:wave:

I think if Mack hadn't had her battle with drugs she would have been just as popular. Certainly her character was more interesting and she was just as good if not better as an actress. Her father is hopefully burning in Hell right now, wait did I just write that? :eek: At any rate I don't think anybody we could think of could have played that part any better. Even in the last season when she looked like she was near death she still had good comic timing.

Mary Louise Wilson/Ginny Wroblicki was terribly annoying. I am glad Bonnie had the power to make her go away. :lol: :wave:

But they should have at least given her an exit episode.

Mac had 4 1/2 seasons on the show before the issues began to creep in to be "Popular", she had more experience than Val and she did have some good story-lines. But she wasn't the "Break Out" star of the show,Val was. Keep in mind the one thing about the show is that Bonnie,Val,Mac and Pat all got good story-lines and episodes.

Julie was more interesting because she was the older "mischievous" sister against Barbara the younger "Good Girl".

There's not questioning Mac's talents as an actress especially now she's clean and sober - just watch her episode of CRIMINAL MINDS - one of the best episodes of the series, with a great ending. Although she's a councilor now, I hope we see her in something again in the future.

The sad things her issues in the 1970's had reproductions that hung over the final four years of the series and perhaps even a spin-off she could have had with Valerie (In "Losing it" - paraphrasing here - Val makes reference there were talk of possibly doing a spin-off after Mac came back but those faded in time - most likely as no one didn't want to take a chance of what did happen in the end - a relapse.)

It's by the strength and talents of Bonnie,Val,Pat,Glen,Ron,Boyd,Mike,Nan,Shelly,and Howard That the show survived those last 4 Seasons (Keep in Mind CBS Moved the show from following MASH, Season 9 was a little soft on the back end due to a tough slot because show ending no matter what)

But the point is Norman Lear made the choice as Executive producer NOT to recast - and that was clearly on the strength of Valerie to carry the show as the "only daughter still at home".

Mac had 4 1/2 seasons on the show before the issues began to creep in to be "Popular", she had more experience than Val and she did have some good story-lines. But she wasn't the "Break Out" star of the show,Val was. Keep in mind the one thing about the show is that Bonnie,Val,Mac and Pat all got good story-lines and episodes.

Julie was more interesting because she was the older "mischievous" sister against Barbara the younger "Good Girl".

There's not questioning Mac's talents as an actress especially now she's clean and sober - just watch her episode of CRIMINAL MINDS - one of the best episodes of the series, with a great ending. Although she's a councilor now, I hope we see her in something again in the future.

The sad things her issues in the 1970's had reproductions that hung over the final four years of the series and perhaps even a spin-off she could have had with Valerie (In "Losing it" - paraphrasing here - Val makes reference there were talk of possibly doing a spin-off after Mac came back but those faded in time - most likely as no one didn't want to take a chance of what did happen in the end - a relapse.)

It's by the strength and talents of Bonnie,Val,Pat,Glen,Ron,Boyd,Mike,Nan,Shelly,and Howard That the show survived those last 4 Seasons (Keep in Mind CBS Moved the show from following MASH, Season 9 was a little soft on the back end due to a tough slot because show ending no matter what)

But the point is Norman Lear made the choice as Executive producer NOT to recast - and that was clearly on the strength of Valerie to carry the show as the "only daughter still at home".

Great, insightful post and I will have to find that CM episode you referenced but think of all the lackluster episodes that happened in Mack's absence. If she wasn't the breakout star for whatever reason her absence was sorely felt. So many filler episodes as a result and Barbara/Valerie looked lost at sea a lot of the time without a sister figure to talk to. The only one who came out on top was Schneider and his "rusty tool" stories. ;) (thanks, Opus!)

But what else could they do? Julie wasn't Julie anymore. :confused:

Was it wise to marry her off to Max this soon? Maybe she could have cleaned up off screen before they threw her into that big story line where she looked so unwell.

Great, insightful post and I will have to find that CM episode you referenced but think of all the lackluster episodes that happened in Mack's absence. If she wasn't the breakout star for whatever reason her absence was sorely felt. So many filler episodes as a result and Barbara/Valerie looked lost at sea a lot of the time without a sister figure to talk to. The only one who came out on top was Schneider and his "rusty tool" stories. ;) (thanks, Opus!)

But what else could they do? Julie wasn't Julie anymore. :confused:

Was it wise to marry her off to Max this soon? Maybe she could have cleaned up off screen before they threw her into that big story line where she looked so unwell.

The storyline was an "Act of Faith" by the producers, and Max was in some ways an "insurance policy" for the character - a reason to have her in and not in an episode as we've seen used a handful of time.

Valerie had to "find" her character's place without Mac around - and she did just fine - I often wondered why they just didn't give her a "Best friend" character to have someone her own age and gender to talk to, taking Julie's place but with a pre-existing back story the audience just accepts. (No set up, here's just Barbara's best friend we've not seen in 5 years) Perhaps the Wilson situation, or the budget, or the just obviousness of doing it.

Again, whatever the case, and even if it took her time for her to adjust, Norman had FAITH in Valerie - and considering how much of his talent on his other shows he had issues with, that is something special.

Kinda ironic Mac was the first of the surviving ODAAT cast to appear on the new ODAAT (and Mike directed an episode)

Now if Valerie would get out of her darn kitchen for a few days an make an appearance...

Valerie had to "find" her character's place without Mac around - and she did just fine - I often wondered why they just didn't give her a "Best friend" character to have someone her own age and gender to talk to, taking Julie's place but with a pre-existing back story the audience just accepts. (No set up, here's just Barbara's best friend we've not seen in 5 years)

There were a few names they could have "Jenny Piccalo-ed". Karen and Marcie spring to mind, but there were also others. And in one ep she moved into a house with some other (unseen) girls. But was of course back home by the end of the half hour.

Max , making my :heart: go pitter patter !!!!!:crazy: :love:


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/haF3VlEMc1M/hqdefault.jpg


Yes. Maybe they thought if they gave her a good looking guy that she could hug and kiss on and play Husband and Wife that she would stay clean, :love: , like giving a child a new toy if they behave ! !;) Also a guilt thing maybe like if she messes up this poor innocent guy would also have to leave the show too! :(

The storyline was an "Act of Faith" by the producers, and Max was in some ways an "insurance policy" for the character - a reason to have her in and not in an episode as we've seen used a handful of time.

Valerie had to "find" her character's place without Mac around - and she did just fine - I often wondered why they just didn't give her a "Best friend" character to have someone her own age and gender to talk to, taking Julie's place but with a pre-existing back story the audience just accepts. (No set up, here's just Barbara's best friend we've not seen in 5 years) Perhaps the Wilson situation, or the budget, or the just obviousness of doing it.

Again, whatever the case, and even if it took her time for her to adjust, Norman had FAITH in Valerie - and considering how much of his talent on his other shows he had issues with, that is something special.

Kinda ironic Mac was the first of the surviving ODAAT cast to appear on the new ODAAT (and Mike directed an episode)

Now if Valerie would get out of her darn kitchen for a few days an make an appearance...

Barbara Cooper dropped out of college to languish in a sporting goods store where she was held up. They kind of dropped the ball with her so to speak and gave her the dumbest of stories and I am including the sexual harassment one which would have been fine if her mother hadn't been the perpetrator of similar behavior that same season I think. :confused: In that one sexual harassment against a male employee was played mostly for laughs and in the one where Barb was harassed it was played deadly seriously. Kind of a double standard. :(

But I digress.

Your idea of a best friend no matter what the back story would have been wise. She never really had a REAL female friend on the show which was unfortunate and weird. I guess Bob filled that slot but it would have been better with a Julie type person she could have had as a confidante/rival. They should have kept her in school and given her a purpose. Even BC realized her mother was right when she insisted that her daughter stay in school when she went back years later. What was the point of her staying in that stupid store for three years anyway? It didn't make any sense or advance her story in any way. They already had the Julie is a dropout story. Why did they have to repeat the process with Barbara?

I like that Mack and Mike were able to come to the new show and I wonder what the hold up with Val might be...:confused: I don't think it is a money thing, maybe her schedule is too busy?

Max , making my :heart: go pitter patter !!!!!:crazy: :love:


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/haF3VlEMc1M/hqdefault.jpg


Yes. Maybe they thought if they gave her a good looking guy that she could hug and kiss on and play Husband and Wife that she would stay clean, :love: , like giving a child a new toy if they behave ! !;) Also a guilt thing maybe like if she messes up this poor innocent guy would also have to leave the show too! :(

Why couldn't they have just dated for awhile? The whole thing was way too rushed. Max could have ended up with Barbara if they hadn't rushed him straight into that dead end union. ;) :cool:

There were a few names they could have "Jenny Piccalo-ed". Karen and Marcie spring to mind, but there were also others. And in one ep she moved into a house with some other (unseen) girls. But was of course back home by the end of the half hour.


Yeah ! And neither Barbara or Julie had any of their girlfriends in the wedding party. Generally you have your Sis as your maid of honor and your cousins and/or girlfriends as bridesmaids !;) They didn't seem to have any cousins but poor Karen and Marcie were SNUBBED!!!:(:D

That wouldn't have been a bad idea that Retro had! Don't get a new Julie, but cast a whole other new character around Barbara's age as her best friend! ;)

There were a few names they could have "Jenny Piccalo-ed". Karen and Marcie spring to mind, but there were also others. And in one ep she moved into a house with some other (unseen) girls. But was of course back home by the end of the half hour.

No offense to Edith Bunker's son but I guess Bob served as Barbara's "girlfriend" for all practical purposes. ;) :D :lol:

Why couldn't they have just dated for awhile? The whole thing was way too rushed. Max could have ended up with Barbara if they hadn't rushed him straight into that dead end union. ;) :cool:


Yeah ! I agree, they could have just been dating in order for him to join the cast! ;) But I guess it was supposed to go along with the Julie character that she did everything impulsively and recklessly ! ;) Like not only did she just meet a man and marry him , but the man she married wasn't even the one she INTENDED to marry!!!:crazy: Double shocker!!! :eek: :eek: That's Julie!;)

Yeah ! I agree, they could have just been dating in order for him to join the cast! ;) But I guess it was supposed to go along with the Julie character that she did everything impulsively and recklessly ! ;) Like not only did she just meet a man and marry him , but the man she married wasn't even the one she INTENDED to marry!!!:crazy: Double shocker!!! :eek: :eek: That's Julie!;)

:wave:

Didn't you think it was weird how okay Ann was with all of this? Julie marrying a man she barely knew? I always thought that seemed out of character that she would be so accepting of that considering how she herself was a teen bride and how badly that turned out.

No offense to Edith Bunker's son but I guess Bob served as Barbara's "girlfriend" for all practical purposes. ;) :D :lol:

Yeah that's true! ;) :D I loved Bob! I wish he was a regular character rather than just a recurring one!!!;)

:wave:

Didn't you think it was weird how okay Ann was with all of this? Julie marrying a man she barely knew? I always thought that seemed out of character that she would be so accepting of that considering how she herself was a teen bride and how badly that turned out.

Yep!! ;) And that is why Ed wasn't even written into this 2 parter! They didn't even want to get into the tirade he would have made over it! ;)

No offense to Edith Bunker's son but I guess Bob served as Barbara's "girlfriend" for all practical purposes. ;) :D :lol:

A girlfriend who constantly had "those thoughts" about her, I guess....

A girlfriend who constantly had "those thoughts" about her, I guess....

Barbara locked poor Bob in the "friend box" and never let him out of it or gave him a chance in that area.

But she also got weirdly protective and competitive when other attractive women saw him in a different light.

Perhaps she too was attracted to him on some level and couldn't admit it to herself for whatever reason...:confused:

Yep!! ;) And that is why Ed wasn't even written into this 2 parter! They didn't even want to get into the tirade he would have made over it! ;)

That was a glaring oversight. Really tacky to exclude him like that as well as not mention him during the Annie's birth 2 parter.

I wonder if Bonnie Franklin has problems with Joseph Campanella as well...:confused: He seemed to vanish pretty much after season 3 and looked angry as hell at the wedding ceremony.

We are FOREVER!!!:)

I love a man holding a baby, there is something very appealing about that, although Max's baby is his ;) and Doug is just using that random baby to get back at Carrie about something. :wave: :) :D


http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/attachment.php?attachmentid=215432&stc=1&d=1486596594


:heart: :heart: :heart: :ducky: :ducky: :ducky:

8 years older than Valerie, but I suppose she could have "played younger".

She was playing younger on Too Close For Comfort.

She was playing younger on Too Close For Comfort.

Yeah, that's true! She was supposed to have been in her early 20's, like Julie's age! ;) :wave:

There were a few names they could have "Jenny Piccalo-ed". Karen and Marcie spring to mind, but there were also others. And in one ep she moved into a house with some other (unseen) girls. But was of course back home by the end of the half hour.

There had to be a reason why they didn't fill Juilie's gap with a friend. Maybe I should contact Norman Lear - think he'd remember at 92? :)

Barbara Cooper dropped out of college to languish in a sporting goods store where she was held up. They kind of dropped the ball with her so to speak and gave her the dumbest of stories and I am including the sexual harassment one which would have been fine if her mother hadn't been the perpetrator of similar behavior that same season I think. :confused: In that one sexual harassment against a male employee was played mostly for laughs and in the one where Barb was harassed it was played deadly seriously. Kind of a double standard. :(

But I digress.

Your idea of a best friend no matter what the back story would have been wise. She never really had a REAL female friend on the show which was unfortunate and weird. I guess Bob filled that slot but it would have been better with a Julie type person she could have had as a confidante/rival. They should have kept her in school and given her a purpose. Even BC realized her mother was right when she insisted that her daughter stay in school when she went back years later. What was the point of her staying in that stupid store for three years anyway? It didn't make any sense or advance her story in any way. They already had the Julie is a dropout story. Why did they have to repeat the process with Barbara?

I like that Mack and Mike were able to come to the new show and I wonder what the hold up with Val might be...:confused: I don't think it is a money thing, maybe her schedule is too busy?

Why they threw Barbara into "Retail Hell" for several years is beyond me...and Sporting Goods? The Travel Agency seemed better, if anything it parallel's Ann start in Advertising in the early seasons.

When did Barbara drop out of College and Then Go back - I've lost track.

When did Barbara drop out of College and Then Go back - I've lost track.

She drops out Season 6, Ep 7 in (the appropriately titled) 'The Drop Out'

She goes back Season 8, Ep 10 in 'First Things First'

She was already working on To close for comfort , but I think a perfect choice would have been Deborah Van Valkenburgh had she been available.:) I think she would be a believable Sister to Barbara, and she was a comedy TV actress, not too famous!! ;)

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/photopost/data/697/dv3.JPG

She was excellent in the movie The Warriors.:)