I'm sure there's an older thread on this but I couldnt readily find it so I just started this one lol

Given that I live in Buffalo, NY and we just had that insane blizzard in November where we couldn't leave our homes for a week and and the national guard had to come help and we now are experiencing temperatures with wind chill factors at -20 tonight plus another lake effect snow storm with blizzard like conditions from tonight until Saturday ugh:( , I began thinking about this case.

When I first watched this case as a kid in the 90s it seemed super creepy and mysterious but now as an adult I just think that they both tragically died due to exposure on the night of their accident. I'm sure their intoxication didn't help their judgment combined with the possible disorientation from the accident. I don't think there was a killer out lurking around in the early am hours in negatives temperatures. (believe me its BITTER COLD lol).

Does anyone else see it that way?

Yes, I think my reaction to it was similar to yours. As a kid, it blew my mind and I thought it was so bizarre. As an adult, I think they all had one too many and got in to an accident, become disoriented, tried to leave the scene, and perished in the snow. And, I don't mean this in a negative way, but they both seemed pretty big. I could see them falling though the ice especially if there were thin patches. The ice would have then refroze over night.

The only thing that is really weird is that the lead officer believed there was foul play and was pushing for a new investigation, IIRC. That is pretty different if you think about it. I can't recall another UM segment where that was the case. I always wondered if maybe he was trying to do it as a CYA type move because it would be pretty embarrassing to do an "exhaustive" search only to ave the bodies discovered a few feet away from where the accident happened.

I thought the case was creepy as a kid, too.

As a grownup who works with intoxicated people all the live long day, I just now think the case is sad. Alcohol sucks.

I think this case was just an accident. I think that both of them were completely disoriented and shaken by the accident (as well as intoxicated). I don't think they meant to leave their best friend trapped in a car. They likely wandered away from the wreckage and fell through the ice. Arnold might have even been thrown from the car considering he wasn't in there according to Tracy when she and Ruby were yelling for help. I doubt there was any foul play here. I know it haunts the investigator, and he's probably troubled that they didn't find the bodies when they were so close by despite an extensive search. It's just a sad case all around.

Sheriffs in Charles Mix County are elected.

Poking around online, I've seen evidence that there has been some accusations of targeting Native Americans by the Sheriff's Department. Due to the weirdness involved, it is possible this investigation was kept open as a peace offering to the Yankton Reservation.

Just a thought.

Glad I'm not the only one!

Necco, that is very interesting! It could be a possibility.

I know the investigator couldn't get over the fact that they didn't find the bodies sooner but in those bitter temperatures the ice they fell through would've frozen up very quickly after they died from exposure. Secondly, it's -12 out right now and being outside even in a jacket, hat, gloves and ugg boots..it's so bitter cold it takes your breathe away. Being intoxicated only makes you more prone to hyperthermia.

Also, the corner concluded they both died of exposure. The investigator agreed they could've died from exposure "but not at that site". Does he really think it's logical that on a bitter cold night in the negatives temperatures a killer is just hanging out and kidnaps 2 young adults both who appeared to weigh close to 200 pounds each? Then somehow kill them by exposure later on at another location then bring them back to the original location? I mean it sounds ridiculous. Just because one body appears slightly more decomposed means nothing. One of their bodies could've been exposed at the surface longer which would expose to body to the warner air which would speed up decomposition during the spring thaw. I also think some friends of theirs claiming to see them were just mistaken about the date. Alcohol abuse is a huge issue on native reservations (much higher than the national average). However, it's bizarre that the cousins father let them drive off on a wintery night knowing they were highly intoxicated. He should've forbide them to drive anywhere. Just sad and tragic.

I thought the case was creepy as a kid, too.

As a grownup who works with intoxicated people all the live long day, I just now think the case is sad. Alcohol sucks.

Very much agree! Alcohol does suck. So many senseless deaths. Had a elementary school classmate die at 21 after a night of hard binge drinking because he went behind the bar to relieve himself but the bar was at the edge of a steep canal. He climbed over the guardrail and slipped and fell to his death. I couldn't imagine how sad it is to see it on a daily basis. Nothing good ever comes from being "wasted"

It should also be noted that the Yankton Reservation is home to a subgroup of Dakota Indians. The Dakota are a subgroup of the Sioux. Both the Yankton and the Pine Ridge Reservations were once part of the Great Sioux Reservation.

So, Pine Ridge is where a lot of the American Indian Movement stuff went down in the 1970s, including the conviction of Leonard Peltier for killing two federal agents and the murder of activist Anna Mae Aquash. (bear with me, I swear I'm going someplace with this.)

When Anna Mae Aquash's body was found, her cause of death was ruled to be exposure, but the FBI cut off her hands and sent them to Washington "to ID the body" Shortly after her burial as a Jane Doe she was IDed, exhumed and found to have been shot in the head execution style.

Fast forward to 1992, the year of Ruby and Arnold's car accident and 1995, the year Unsolved Mysteries presented the case. There was a resurgence of interest in what happened at Pine Ridge. Pressure was being placed on law enforcement from a lot of different directions.

A documentary called The Incident at Oglala was made in 1992.
Rage Against the Machine released a song called Freedom which had a video that was about Leonard Peltier.
Buffy St Marie released a song called "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" in 1992 that was very quickly covered by the Indigo Girls.
In 1991, the judge that presided over Leonard Peltier's 1986 appeal hearing expressed serious concerns about the appeal.
In 1993, Leonard Peltier was denied parole.



So, what I'm saying is, I can understand why the folks on the reservation weren't too keen to except the "they died of exposure" line AND why law enforcement might want to have played nice on this case in an effort to make some good will between them and the tribe. "Look how much we care about the Indians, we're even going on Unsolved Mysteries to get try and get them justice"

I've always theorized that the investigator didn't want to admit that he might have missed the bodies, so he came up with the theory that the bodies were put there.

Yeah, I've always had mixed feelings about this sheriff in this case. On one hand, he did seem genuinely passionate about solving the case, which was a far cry from many UM cases where LE callously disregard a victim's family by writing off a suspicious death as an accident or suicide and move on. On the other hand, if he was wrong, it's pretty cruel to string the victim's families along and prevent them from getting closure by making them believe there's some imaginary killer out there to find.

So, what I'm saying is, I can understand why the folks on the reservation weren't too keen to except the "they died of exposure" line AND why law enforcement might want to have played nice on this case in an effort to make some good will between them and the tribe. "Look how much we care about the Indians, we're even going on Unsolved Mysteries to get try and get them justice"

Thanks for posting this and your earlier post. It confirms suspicions we have had about the department's motivation for handling the case in this manner. I honestly had not conducted the research, so had no idea this was all going on. It really helps put things in to a better perspective though, doesn't it? Thanks again.

I agree with many here that this case was mind boggling when I was young in the 90s but became clearer as I got older.

I currently live about 100 miles from where this incident happened, and I've experienced the kinds of weather conditions the area has to offer. I've even been to Lake Andes, although I do not know exactly where this incident occurred. In bitter winter conditions here in SD, I can easily believe that they fell threw the ice and died from exposure. However, there is one issue that I've never been able to reconcile with the exposure angle. The main issue I have with the They Died by falling through the ice story is the weather data that I've been able to gather from that location and time. I obtained weather data from the National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) for the month of December 1992 when this incident occurred. The data was collected at the weather station in Pickstown, SD which is 7 miles from Lake Andes. In the seven days surrounding this incident, the daily high temps ranged from 26-48 degrees Farenheit. The daily low temps ranged from 16-29 degrees Farenheit. While 16 degrees is low, that was the lowest temperature and didn't happen until over 3 days after the accident. The accident happened early morning on December 12th. The overnight low for that night/morning was 25 degrees Farenheit. The previous day (December 11th) was the warmest day in that seven day period with a high of 48 degrees Farenheit. The day of the accident (December 12th) reached a high of 37 degrees Farenheit. While those temperatures are not necessarily "warm" they are not the kind of bone chilling cold that we often see in South Dakota. Additionally, it was far to warm on the 11th for the ice to have frozen enough for a car to land on it the way the reenactment showed. at a low temp of 25 degrees after a high of 48 that day, you'd be talking about a thin layer of ice on top. And it certainly wouldn't have been cold enough for them to fall through and then have the ice re-freeze before the search the next day (especially since the 12th had a high of 37 degrees). Given the temperatures reported for that area by the NCDC, why wasn't the overturned car submerged in water if the water in the ditch was deep enough to hide two bodies from authorities. It wasn't cold enough to allow a car to stay on top of a layer of ice even if the top of the ditch was frozen. However, if the water was deep enough to completely submerge two bodies, I doubt it would have been frozen at all. The daily high temps had been in the 40s for the previous four days according to the NCDC. According to the UM segment, when rescue workers arrived on the scene, " the ice underneath the car was frozen solid, they feared that Arnold and Ruby had wandered off and fallen through the ice at another location." This just does not reconcile with the temperatures recorded for that area on that date and the amount of water that would have been present in the ditch for two full grown adults to have fallen through the ice.

As a side note, I re-pulled the weather data from the NCDC this morning to make this post and I'd be happy to share the PDF with anyone who wants to see it.

Thanks for your research and insight, asmitty. That's some pretty interesting information.

It's been a VERY long time since I last watched this one, but I always wanted to know more about Arnold and Ruby, personally. Who were their friends and associates? What kind of things did they like to do? What were their habits? I seem to remember the segment didn't go into great depth about much of that.

Necco brings up an interesting point re: the Sioux Nation, The Incident at Oglala (I would encourage everyone to see it if you haven't, regardless of whether you feel Peltier was framed or not), and the sheriff's department.

I knew eventually my love of obscure documentaries, Unsolved Mysteries, rap metal, and folk rock would someday come in handy.

In all seriousness, this case illustrates the epidemic of alcoholism and lack of opportunity rampant in some Native communities.

If my math is vaguely correct, their baby should be about 24. I wonder how baby and cousin Tracy are today.

It's been a VERY long time since I last watched this one, but I always wanted to know more about Arnold and Ruby, personally. Who were their friends and associates? What kind of things did they like to do? What were their habits? I seem to remember the segment didn't go into great depth about much of that.

We really don't learn much about them. They fell in love in high school and struggled after having a child together because they were still so young. We know they were close to Tracy, who was their best friend, and that they liked to drive around. They also, unfortunately, liked to drink and I think that's the cause of the accident and this whole tragedy. I also wanted to know more about them besides being the young parents they were.

As Necco said, alcoholism is rampant in a lot of Native American communities. It looks like they were exposed young, considering they were all underage, and perhaps it was normal for them to drive and drink. I found it strange that Tracy's father didn't admonish them for it, but at least he discouraged them from taking the little girl with them. I'm going to make a guess that drinking/driving on the reservation was not such a rare thing.

I'm going to make a guess that drinking/driving on the reservation was not such a rare thing.

I think that's true not just of reservations, but ANY sort of rural community. From experience, I have a heck of a time with prosecuting DUI's here because Montana has been so accepting of the DUI culture. "Hey, we drink after work and we drive home. It's what Montanans do. It's what we've always done. It's what my grandparents did."

I think that's true not just of reservations, but ANY sort of rural community. From experience, I have a heck of a time with prosecuting DUI's here because Montana has been so accepting of the DUI culture. "Hey, we drink after work and we drive home. It's what Montanans do. It's what we've always done. It's what my grandparents did."

It's the same here in South Dakota. When I was in my 20s and more social (aka went out to bars more often) it was not uncommon for me to meet people who had multiple DUIs on their record. Unfortunately, the law is very lax here with regards to those things and the penalties, while inconvenient, are not very harsh.

I think that's true not just of reservations, but ANY sort of rural community. From experience, I have a heck of a time with prosecuting DUI's here because Montana has been so accepting of the DUI culture. "Hey, we drink after work and we drive home. It's what Montanans do. It's what we've always done. It's what my grandparents did."
Thank you for the insight. I've lived in L.A. my entire life (except for teaching abroad for two years), and I didn't know that many rural areas were so accepting of that. Here in the city it's all about getting a DD (designated driver) and/or making certain to stop drinking at a certain point so we can drive safely. Of course, DUIs happen, but I've never heard anyone be so blase about it. That must be so frustrating to try and prosecute and be met with that kind of mentality as a defense. I hope you are more successful prosecuting drunk drivers who actually cause harm.

Well, I'm ashamed to admit it but in my early 20s, there was definitely plenty of drinking and driving between my friends and I. The limit here is.08 which is quite easy to reach but we did it more often then I'd like to admit. We were just lucky and never got caught (even more lucky we didn't hurt anyone.) I think it's the unfortunate part of being in your late teens and early 20s, you tend to think your invincible . Also, because my friends did it, it seemed more socially acceptable on weekends (buzzed driving as they call it). I think that's probably how it was for the young adults on the native reservation. If everyone did it, it just seems more acceptable. Not that it's any kind of excuse but it does make things seen okay.

It does seem on the reservations that poverty,alcoholism, and teen pregnancy is an all to common problem as well. So sad because their heritage and culture is so amazing. I guess we can thank our government for destroying their culture. Sad

I agree with many here that this case was mind boggling when I was young in the 90s but became clearer as I got older.

I currently live about 100 miles from where this incident happened, and I've experienced the kinds of weather conditions the area has to offer. I've even been to Lake Andes, although I do not know exactly where this incident occurred. In bitter winter conditions here in SD, I can easily believe that they fell threw the ice and died from exposure. However, there is one issue that I've never been able to reconcile with the exposure angle. The main issue I have with the They Died by falling through the ice story is the weather data that I've been able to gather from that location and time. I obtained weather data from the National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) for the month of December 1992 when this incident occurred. The data was collected at the weather station in Pickstown, SD which is 7 miles from Lake Andes. In the seven days surrounding this incident, the daily high temps ranged from 26-48 degrees Farenheit. The daily low temps ranged from 16-29 degrees Farenheit. While 16 degrees is low, that was the lowest temperature and didn't happen until over 3 days after the accident. The accident happened early morning on December 12th. The overnight low for that night/morning was 25 degrees Farenheit. The previous day (December 11th) was the warmest day in that seven day period with a high of 48 degrees Farenheit. The day of the accident (December 12th) reached a high of 37 degrees Farenheit. While those temperatures are not necessarily "warm" they are not the kind of bone chilling cold that we often see in South Dakota. Additionally, it was far to warm on the 11th for the ice to have frozen enough for a car to land on it the way the reenactment showed. at a low temp of 25 degrees after a high of 48 that day, you'd be talking about a thin layer of ice on top. And it certainly wouldn't have been cold enough for them to fall through and then have the ice re-freeze before the search the next day (especially since the 12th had a high of 37 degrees). Given the temperatures reported for that area by the NCDC, why wasn't the overturned car submerged in water if the water in the ditch was deep enough to hide two bodies from authorities. It wasn't cold enough to allow a car to stay on top of a layer of ice even if the top of the ditch was frozen. However, if the water was deep enough to completely submerge two bodies, I doubt it would have been frozen at all. The daily high temps had been in the 40s for the previous four days according to the NCDC. According to the UM segment, when rescue workers arrived on the scene, " the ice underneath the car was frozen solid, they feared that Arnold and Ruby had wandered off and fallen through the ice at another location." This just does not reconcile with the temperatures recorded for that area on that date and the amount of water that would have been present in the ditch for two full grown adults to have fallen through the ice.

As a side note, I re-pulled the weather data from the NCDC this morning to make this post and I'd be happy to share the PDF with anyone who wants to see it.
I agree. I lived in Ohio previously and that sounds like average winter temps for a northern area. Enough to die from exposure at night but not necessarily during the daytime. In those temps there is no way there would be a hard freeze. Now if there was a lot of water in the ditch is is possible their bodies were submerged?

I agree. I lived in Ohio previously and that sounds like average winter temps for a northern area. Enough to die from exposure at night but not necessarily during the daytime. In those temps there is no way there would be a hard freeze. Now if there was a lot of water in the ditch is is possible their bodies were submerged?

Yes, it is possible that they fell and were submerged in the water. We have some deep ditches in this area of the country. However, there are two things about that possibility that bother me. If there wasn't a hard freeze that night, why did UM report that the car was overturned an ice that was frozen solid. Presumably, it's because that's what the police report said, so why did the police report say that. And why did the police insist that they sent men out "walking on the ice" to find a spot where Arnold and Ruby might have fallen through. Secondly, although it's possible they fell and were submerged in the water, even if they'd been drinking it'd be a pretty amazing coincidence if these two people both passed out and fell face down in this ditch so close together and died there like that. I also feel that at the temperatures listed there would be some sign of drowning as opposed to exposure even if hypothermia was setting in. Those are facts I just can't reconcile.

All I remember is the cousin who said 'ya know' after every other word.

"I felt like ya know why would they leave me ya know out in the cold ya know?"

All I remember is the cousin who said 'ya know' after every other word.

"I felt like ya know why would they leave me ya know out in the cold ya know?"

I never noticed that. The quotes I've seen only had her said "you know" 3 or 4 times. She just sounded Midwestern to me.

She was no Young "know what I'm saying" Lay.

She was no Young "know what I'm saying" Lay.

My thoughts exactly.

So I just watched this again because I thought I might be a little too judgmental but here is what she said word for word

"I was really scared and Ruby is my cousin, ya know, how could she leave me, ya know, she got out and how come she didn't want to help me out, ya know, or why didn't arnold help me get out too, YA KNOW"

Like that rapper who kept on saying, "You know what I'm saying?" lmao

So I just watched this again because I thought I might be a little too judgmental but here is what she said word for word

"I was really scared and Ruby is my cousin, ya know, how could she leave me, ya know, she got out and how come she didn't want to help me out, ya know, or why didn't arnold help me get out too, YA KNOW"

That can be a sign of deception according to some linguists.

So I just watched this again because I thought I might be a little too judgmental but here is what she said word for word

"I was really scared and Ruby is my cousin, ya know, how could she leave me, ya know, she got out and how come she didn't want to help me out, ya know, or why didn't arnold help me get out too, YA KNOW"
I feel bad for her, but I can't help but notice that every time I watch, too. I think she was probably nervous being on camera, especially when talking about such a traumatic event. Some people feel awkward on camera (I'm one of them. I think my repeated line would be "Um" or "so uh").

I feel bad for her, but I can't help but notice that every time I watch, too. I think she was probably nervous being on camera, especially when talking about such a traumatic event. Some people feel awkward on camera (I'm one of them. I think my repeated line would be "Um" or "so uh").
I agree here. I would have to re watch this one but I believe there is a logical explanation for why they didn't help her...as mentioned previously here alcohol plus a possible traumatic injury. I've seen this one Many times as its on the dvd set and it seems like they did a good job of presenting different scenarios to make you wonder what may have happened.

So I just watched this again because I thought I might be a little too judgmental but here is what she said word for word

"I was really scared and Ruby is my cousin, ya know, how could she leave me, ya know, she got out and how come she didn't want to help me out, ya know, or why didn't arnold help me get out too, YA KNOW"

I searched for this case for the sole purpose of pointing out how annoying she was in the interview.

As far as the case goes, I think the investigators did a subpar job searching for the bodies on the night of the incident. Then, once the temperatures relaxed some, their bodies surfaced.

I'm sure there's an older thread on this but I couldnt readily find it so I just started this one lol

Given that I live in Buffalo, NY and we just had that insane blizzard in November where we couldn't leave our homes for a week and and the national guard had to come help and we now are experiencing temperatures with wind chill factors at -20 tonight plus another lake effect snow storm with blizzard like conditions from tonight until Saturday ugh:( , I began thinking about this case.

When I first watched this case as a kid in the 90s it seemed super creepy and mysterious but now as an adult I just think that they both tragically died due to exposure on the night of their accident. I'm sure their intoxication didn't help their judgment combined with the possible disorientation from the accident. I don't think there was a killer out lurking around in the early am hours in negatives temperatures. (believe me its BITTER COLD lol).

Does anyone else see it that way?

Yes. I see it that way. I think the local cops were just inept and missed the bodies under the ice. They made a big deal out of one body decomposing much faster than the other one, which implied that the bodies were moved and put back there. However, that means nothing. It is completely possible for two bodies to decompose at different rates lying in the same ditch if one body is under the ice completely while the other is partially exposed.

Moreover, what reason would a killer have for killing them, taking the bodies away and then returning them? Why not just kill them there and leave them at the scene? The whole theory just doesn't make sense to me.

I believe there were a few versions of this segment. I seem to remember seeing it on Lifetime with more interviews and a longer segment. The one I see on YT now is much shorter.

Yes, there was a longer segment and it included friends who claimed they saw Arnold (not ruby) on new years eve after the accident. They or one of them apparently passed a lie detector however, I don't think they were lying but just mistaken about the date. Also, there was A LOT of partying and drinking for young adults on the reservation so I'm very confident they did just have their date mistaken.

As an adult living in where this past winter it dipped into -20 plus wind chill a few times similar to the conditions on the night of the accident, the case honestly isn't mysterious at all just very tragic. Absolutely no "killer" is going to be walking around in that bitter temperature in the early morning hours just hoping Arnold and Ruby drink and drive then get into an accident so they can remove them from the scene, kill them (by exposure? lol as that's what the autopsy revealed. No sign strangulation, blunt force trauma, stab wound, gun shot was found), then bring their bodies back to the scene of the accident months later to be discovered. Its ridiculous.

The fact that Ruby didn't help her cousin out of the car shows she wasn't thinking clearly. They were both very intoxicated and probably very shook up by the accident. In Arnolds drunken state he probably panicked and wanted to flee the scene of the accident knowing he was drunk. However, in negative temperatures most people just wearing a jacket, gloves and a hat wont survive very long. I have feeling since they weren't thinking clearly, they wondered on a patch of ice that wasn't able to hold their weight and fell through. They would have died very quickly in water in negative temps. That ice would have frozen over again very quickly as cold as it was that night. So the searchers probably would not have seen a broken through patch of ice on the lake. In the spring thaw, that's then they were found.

The whole "well one body was most decomposed than the other" doesn't mean anything. One body was probably exposed to the warmer air/conditions slightly longer. There are quite a few explanations that would fit and make more sense the sheriffs killer theory.