I saw the notice about this on the UM site this morning and can't hardly believe it. This is quoted from his FB page, “1989-2014 -- 25th anniversary......25 years of tears.....STILL LOVED.....STILL MISSING.....mom STILL SEARCHING".
I've been following this case for a lot of years and Denise Horvath-Allen always seems like such a good person. Just like I always imagined her son to be. Reading that this morning made me very sad. I'll be keeping them both in my thoughts and prayers today. Please forgive me if there's already a thread on this and thank you for listening!

I spoke to Charles's mother last week. (I have a facebook page, MissingandTattooed and I had postd Charles's information etc...)

I told her that Charles hadn't been forgotten and lots of people on these message boards remember his case and want to see his disappearance solved.

She gave me this link to his candlelight vigil...25 years missing...

https://www.facebook.com/events/835315773159168/

It looks like a foundation has been set up in his name to help find missing people.

https://www.facebook.com/SEARC4CharlesFOUNDATION

The missing people video I made with Charles in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7z7Aa9yalw&list=UUlimAcBpBSuRm-aBg8cmixg

Like many other people, I feel very sad about this case. A good mother's love never dies.

But it is all but certain that Charles Horvath has died. If he wanted to escape, he would have kept some of his belongings. He didn't need to fake his death as he committed no crime. Most likely, it was an accident of some type, maybe a drug OD and the drug dealers wanted to cover everything up.

The only ray of hope is also the single most unusual part of segment: that he tried to find his potential lover long after his disappearance. However, I just don't see how the police can ascertain that, but if it is indeed true, then there is a chance that he might be alive.

Like many other people, I feel very sad about this case. A good mother's love never dies.

But it is all but certain that Charles Horvath has died. If he wanted to escape, he would have kept some of his belongings. He didn't need to fake his death as he committed no crime. Most likely, it was an accident of some type, maybe a drug OD and the drug dealers wanted to cover everything up.

The only ray of hope is also the single most unusual part of segment: that he tried to find his potential lover long after his disappearance. However, I just don't see how the police can ascertain that, but if it is indeed true, then there is a chance that he might be alive.

I don't think it was his lover, they stated she was just a friend. The police had also speculated she might have been wrong about the date and that it was quite a bit earlier than what she stated. In any event, I hope he's still alive, though I don't know how good the odds are.

I don't think it was his lover, they stated she was just a friend. The police had also speculated she might have been wrong about the date and that it was quite a bit earlier than what she stated. In any event, I hope he's still alive, though I don't know how good the odds are.


You know, I've always found that detail a little odd. I assume you're both referring to the incident where Horvath allegedly showed up outside his friend's home uninvited? I always thought it was somewhat strange that she refused to see him. Whenever I've had guests drop by at a bad time, I open the door to them, tell them I'm otherwise engaged and ask them to visit again later. Is that just me? Or is it perfectly reasonable to decline to open your door to a friend when you're busy?

You know, I've always found that detail a little odd. I assume you're both referring to the incident where Horvath allegedly showed up outside his friend's home uninvited? I always thought it was somewhat strange that she refused to see him. Whenever I've had guests drop by at a bad time, I open the door to them, tell them I'm otherwise engaged and ask them to visit again later. Is that just me? Or is it perfectly reasonable to decline to open your door to a friend when you're busy?

She had other guests at the time (I think it was a family dinner). I can *sort of* understand where she was coming from, although I would have just invited Charles in and let everyone mingle. That's how people get to know each other. Plus, maybe he was hungry?

But yeah. If a handsome British gentleman showed up at my door, I don't think I could turn him away. :)

The one interesting thing about Charles being turned away is that the friend was mistaken by months- yet months LATER, meaning Charles arrived after he was supposed to have vanished. I would have to check the segment again, but I believe she claimed he showed up in April around the time he was last sighted and the relatives actually visited in July.

I think we should perhaps be open-minded about the door thing. The real conversation could have been totally different. For all we know, she could have asked him to come back another time or the family could have been going through a rough patch when it wasn't a great time to receive guests.

I've recently seen the segment and what happened was he buzzed her door but the girl's brother had just came home for a visit so they wanted it to be just family (it sounded like they hadn't seen the brother in awhile) and that's why they didn't let him up.

I had long since believed Charles ran into foul play (and still think that's a possibility) as reflected by my first posts on the thread I started in 2006. But after having just re-watched the segment, I think there is a strong possibility he is still alive. I base that on several things:

1) There has been some talk on here of Charles mentioning about wanting to/thinking about disappearing on his own accord, how it was not just one, but two people who had said that and they were relatives. I think all of that is significant. But to add to that, the part that gets me was that he stated "he would never be found." And if that's true and he did disappear on his own, his statement still rings true 25 years later. He hasn't been found.

2) It also suggests that this was not some spur-of-the-moment decision. He was independent, finding himself on the backpacking excursion through Canada, and it was because he had this time on his hands that perhaps he realized what he wanted to do and it didn't involve returning to his mom in England. I believe it was something he was probably kicking around in his head for a while and he came to the conclusion that being overseas was the time and place to do it. Perhaps he went somewhere where there's not much population and he stands little chance of being recognized.

3) I don't normally put too much stock into eyewitness accounts, but apparently the friend (same one who turned him down as she was having a family dinner) saw him in August of 89 at a nightclub, and there were accounts of him hitchhiking through 1992. So what we have is one credible one from someone who knew him (and that's even if she was mistaken about the other one and it was earlier than July). Plus, he was known to hitchhike, so that makes the other accounts seem a little more credible.

4) At first glance, the seedy area in which he was staying seems a bit suspect. But crime in Canada is quite low I would imagine. Additionally, if it was a homeless camp, we are perhaps not dealing with the brightest people on Earth and probably not ones with the intelligence to hide a body (presumably nearby) where it will go undetected for 25 years.

To futher expand on what kind of camp he was staying at was, that one seemingly normal guy was there with his 6 year old son. So that throws some more doubt onto just how seedy this place was. I think it was called Flintstone Bedrock City? That's comical.

As Dante said, usually people who are missing for this long don't turn up alive, but I think this is one case where it just may be possible.

I just saw this today posted by his mother. I couldn't have been more shocked. I didn't realize it was being treated as a cold case homicide.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Kelownas-1989-Cold-Case-Murder-of-Charles-k-j-Horvath/173199392697592

Not to be negative but I use to live in Kelowna right off the lake where Charles disapeared. If he were murdered which is a high possibility and someone tied weights to him that lake is so deep it is almost impossible to find him. Just a theory. They arent even certain how deep that lake is in certain parts.

Was this the case where someone called his mother saying his body was in a lake then called during the search saying they were looking in the wrong place ?

Was this the case where someone called his mother saying his body was in a lake then called during the search saying they were looking in the wrong place ?

yes.

Not to be negative but I use to live in Kelowna right off the lake where Charles disapeared. If he were murdered which is a high possibility and someone tied weights to him that lake is so deep it is almost impossible to find him. Just a theory. They arent even certain how deep that lake is in certain parts.

That's a very good point. I remember them saying it was the deepest lake in the world, so it could be extremely difficult to find his remains if they are in there.

That's a very good point. I remember them saying it was the deepest lake in the world, so it could be extremely difficult to find his remains if they are in there.

The one thing I wondered alot too is if he was thrown from the main bridge that connects Kelowna to West Kelowna it is a floating bridge. And even at night there is still a fair amount of traffic on it so someone must of seen something o one would assume. With out weighing him down he would show up on shore. I still think someone took him out on a boat willingly or not alive or dead and desposed of him out there somewhere.
I am not sure if it is the deepest lake in the world but it has to be one of them. I was 9 years old when this happened and the case still sticks in my head all the time. Sadly I doubt it will ever be solved. Or his remains found.

They did search the lake area near the bridge and found a body there who was not Horvath, so the lake must not be too deep there. There are many places to dispose of a body.

I was just researching this case. Someone mentioned the campground Charles stayed at was called Flintstone Bedrock City. If you do a search of that campground and Charles' name a six-minute video from 1980 shows up. In the comment section a user called Missing Charles KJ Horvath-Allan wrote that Charles worked there in 1989. Also, this was not the campground he was staying at, he was staying at Tiny Town Campground, which is/was indeed seedy.

Another thing I found interesting was when his mother received two letters. The letters were delivered to her motel by taxi. This is odd. The police think the letters were a hoax but why would someone spend the money to have a letter delivered to her motel by taxi on two occasions? And did the police or anyone follow up with the cab driver to see who instructed them to drive the letters to the motel? To me, this gives more weight to the letters being legit.

Just watched this again last night. There is a lot going on here, but I think there are two key factors that kinda point toward what happened:

1. Charles' last communication with his mother was in May

2. Charles' possessions were found abandoned at the campsite around the same time

The occurrence of these two factors around the same time suggests to me that something bad happened to Charles and he was not able to return to the campsite. What happened is anyone's guess, but given the transient nature of his lifestyle I think it is possible that he could have been partying with some people (drinking and/or drugs) and died accidentally, or he was murdered. In either event, his body was disposed of somewhere and never recovered, or he's a John Doe.

Everything else in the segment in terms of sightings, bodies under bridges, etc. is just noise, IMO.

Another thing I found interesting was when his mother received two letters. The letters were delivered to her motel by taxi. This is odd. The police think the letters were a hoax but why would someone spend the money to have a letter delivered to her motel by taxi on two occasions? And did the police or anyone follow up with the cab driver to see who instructed them to drive the letters to the motel? To me, this gives more weight to the letters being legit.

At least in this case, I give a bit more credence to the letters not being a hoax and from someone who may have had some knowledge about what happened to Charles. According to Denise Allan, the RCMP retrieved some of his belongings from individuals who knew Charles and were using them at the campsite. This site (http://footprintsattheriversedge.blogspot.com/2011/04/052689-charles-horvath-allan-20-kelowna.html) mentions that:

After Charles disappeared, his mother and grandmother traveled to Kelowna to look for him. They discovered that his tent, sleeping bag, clothing, personal ID, photographs and shaving bag had been disposed of by Phillip Flett, the manager of the campsite where Charles had been staying. Items of his clothing and shaving bag had been taken and worn by other campsite residents. Flett returned Charles' rosary, tiny red Bible, and a leather strap from Charles' boot to his mom.

What ever happened to him, the last confirmed sighting was of Charles cashing his paycheck, and I don't believe that he ran away and abandoned all of his stuff to start a new life.

Not sure but I think he has a brother named Max living in Indiana who hasn't been heard from in 35 years.

Not sure but I think he has a brother named Max living in Indiana who hasn't been heard from in 35 years.

But yes, Max has been heard from!!! Everyday for the last 2 and 1/2 years from a crazy lady name Bonnie!! :crazy::lol: