I rarely make new threads, and if there is one similar to this I apologize, but after watching the Judith Himes segment today I got to thinking: what missing persons segments are there were people are split 50/50 on whether or not the person is alive or deceased? I had never seen the full Judith Himes segment before, and never saw the part with the radio host who someone used his identity to call the Coral Gables PD and act as if they had information on the Judith Himes case. Due to the passage of time on most of the missing persons segments featured on UM, I honestly feel that the majority of them are deceased, unfortunately. But, IMO, I do think a select few have a 50% chance of being alive:

Selena Edon - the main reason I believe she has a chance of being alive and well is the fact that there was no hints of foul play hinted at in the segment. Selena's mother had said that her mental state had deteriorated since her accident, and that Selena felt a move to San Francisco would help her regain her ground. She even told her mother that if she didn't hear from her in a month or two not to worry, and that she was ok. Her mother also described her as evasive on the phone. I think it's entirely possible that she simply forgot who she was, and wound up in a group home somewhere shortly after she was last heard from. It tends to be more likely than her meeting with foul play, considering her deteriorating mental state at the time.

Judith Hyams (Himes) - I had only seen this segment on the Farina hosted episodes, so I was under the impression that Judith simply died from an illegal abortion and that her death was covered up. It was only until I saw the full Robert Stack segment that my mind began to wonder whether or not she indeed did die or simply wanted to start a new life. The segment mentions blood being found on the back seat of her rental car, but doesn't go into specifics like whether or not the amount was traces, or enough to assume she was dead. The segment also has three different mysterious callers call the Coral Gables PD (25 full years after she vanished, and after the Coral Gables PD pretty much wrote the case off) to claim that they either had information on the case or that they knew Judith was alive and living in Omaha. Considering the fact that the Coral Gables captain, Chuck Scherer, had traveled to Omaha to give a lecture, and then began to receive phone calls related to the case adds a big WTF moment in my mind. Scherer admits that he knew nothing of the case, never once brought it up to anyone during his stay in Omaha, and had never even heard the name before he began receiving the phone calls. I find the odds that these phone calls (3 of them) were all crank calls (considering the distance from Coral Gables to Omaha and the passage of time of the disappearance) to be astronomical. What are the odds that three people (in the pre-internet age) are going to conspire to mess with a 25 year old missing persons case with which they have no connection? The phone calls alone makes me wonder whether or not Judith was alive at the time, or if she did indeed reside in Omaha before Scherer was there to give his lecture. I'd say the odds of her living after her disappearance are 50/50.

Pam Page - I know her husband Rob did some very, very suspicious things after her disappearance. However, there are certain aspects to the story that make me think there's a 50% chance she simply left him to start a new life. Not only was she missing, but several family photos as well as one of the family dogs was missing as well. Most guys who decide to knock off their wife and make it seem like they disappeared usually aren't smart enough to also knock off a dog and discard several photos to make their story more believable. Not to mention that the segment specifically mentioned that police could never find any evidence of wrongdoing on Rob Page's part, is enough to make me question the belief that she was murdered by Rob.

Star Palumbo - the reason I'm 50/50 on this one is because of the fact that Star never contacted her family since her disappearance. It seems plausible that she got caught up in a world of drugs and prostitution, and was either ashamed of what she had become or had forgotten who she used to be, which would account for her not contacting anyone. But then again, there was a flimsy eyewitness account of someone looking like Star being frightened of a man peering through a window of a bar, which seemed to play up the foul play theory more. Also, the fact that it was hinted that she was into prostitution would open up a world of dangerous possibilities as to what had happened to her. The Charley Project page on Star says she had gotten involved with meth before her disappearance. Knowing how meth significantly alters someone's appearance after repeated abuse, this could be a reason why no one has come forward with sightings of Star. If alive, she probably would look nothing like what she used to. And there was evidence found in her abandoned car that seemed to indicate Star was researching how to change her identity.

I
Pam Page - I know her husband Rob did some very, very suspicious things after her disappearance. .

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No kidding - forging a letter by his wife and lying about his movements during the period she first went missing - its really hard to see how that's consistent with innocence.

Yet, apparently he was cleared as being a suspect by the cops after a thorough investigation. Like Timothy McClure, I'm not sure what to make of him. In any event, he died 5 years ago, so its unlikely we'll ever find out what happened.

For many of the cases involving missing infants (Jacqueline Castenada, Marlene Santana, etc.), I think there's a better than 50/50 chance they're alive since they may have been abducted by people who wanted to raise a child of their own. In fact, the ensuing years may be interesting for the Jacqueline Castenada case since she will soon reaching the age where she might be required to provide a birth certificate for certain things. As we've seen with cases like Carlina White, abducted children often become suspicious when they ask for their birth certificate and the person raising them inexplicably doesn't have it.

I've also always been 50/50 on Dub and Chance Wackerhagen. Since it's been 20 years, it seems less likely they're still alive yet no murder theory has ever made complete sense to me. I don't know why an unknown third party would murder everyone yet dispose of Dub and Chance's bodies while leaving Leticia behind. However, I still have problems with the murder-suicide theory. I know Dub was a hot-tempered guy who would be capable of murdering his girlfriend in a crime of passion, yet he never struck me as someone evil enough to kill his own son. I don't entirely discount the possibility that they've somehow managed to stay hidden all this time.

You make some good points about the Himes case. The whole part with the radio host was the true WTF moment for me since the caller impersonating him provided the police with his home number. Yet the host claims that he had an unlisted phone number which only a handful of people knew and he doesn't think any of them would have pulled a bizarre stunt like this. But even if he's wrong, what kind of connection would they have to Judith Himes :confused: ?! Truly baffling!

Judith Hyams (Himes) - I had only seen this segment on the Farina hosted episodes, so I was under the impression that Judith simply died from an illegal abortion and that her death was covered up. It was only until I saw the full Robert Stack segment that my mind began to wonder whether or not she indeed did die or simply wanted to start a new life. The segment mentions blood being found on the back seat of her rental car, but doesn't go into specifics like whether or not the amount was traces, or enough to assume she was dead. The segment also has three different mysterious callers call the Coral Gables PD (25 full years after she vanished, and after the Coral Gables PD pretty much wrote the case off) to claim that they either had information on the case or that they knew Judith was alive and living in Omaha. Considering the fact that the Coral Gables captain, Chuck Scherer, had traveled to Omaha to give a lecture, and then began to receive phone calls related to the case adds a big WTF moment in my mind. Scherer admits that he knew nothing of the case, never once brought it up to anyone during his stay in Omaha, and had never even heard the name before he began receiving the phone calls. I find the odds that these phone calls (3 of them) were all crank calls (considering the distance from Coral Gables to Omaha and the passage of time of the disappearance) to be astronomical. What are the odds that three people (in the pre-internet age) are going to conspire to mess with a 25 year old missing persons case with which they have no connection? The phone calls alone makes me wonder whether or not Judith was alive at the time, or if she did indeed reside in Omaha before Scherer was there to give his lecture. I'd say the odds of her living after her disappearance are 50/50.

I always thought the Judth Hyams segment was so intriguing and pretty creepy due to the voice in the re-enactment of the calls. Interesting theory--in terms of the update from the anonymous nurse who wrote a letter saying Judith died from complications during an illegal abortion, do you think (if she were alive) it was a false letter written by Judith or somebody who has helped her start a new life to throw them off her trail?

I always figured she had died due to complications with the abortion, but as I said, very interesting to think about the other part of it!

I've also always been 50/50 on Dub and Chance Wackerhagen. Since it's been 20 years, it seems less likely they're still alive yet no murder theory has ever made complete sense to me. I don't know why an unknown third party would murder everyone yet dispose of Dub and Chance's bodies while leaving Leticia behind. However, I still have problems with the murder-suicide theory. I know Dub was a hot-tempered guy who would be capable of murdering his girlfriend in a crime of passion, yet he never struck me as someone evil enough to kill his own son. I don't entirely discount the possibility that they've somehow managed to stay hidden all this time.

I used to think that Dub and Chance were on the lam, but after I thought about it it would be extremely difficult for a truck driver to have the means to disappear and stay disappeared, especially with a young child.

Good thread topic.

Selena Edon is the one that stands out for me the most. I think it's very possible she lived for quite some time or is still living today as a transient somewhere in the U.S.

I go back and forth on Dub and Chance Wackerhagen, which is probably why it's one of my favorite segments. I've gone from thinking Chance, Dub, and Letricia were all murdered by a third party to the theory that Dub and Chance perished in a murder-suicide shortly after the disappearance to the notion that at least Chance is alive and might even be living under a different name in the U.S. Dub's father's repeated insistence that he was never helping his son out financially and his later suicide have always kind of troubled me and do add an element of doubt to the idea that the two are dead (or at least were dead throughout that time). I don't know what I think about the disappearance, but I do think there is a possibility that they could both still be alive--now whether I'd bump that possibility up to 50%, I'm not sure.

Michael Hughes.

I know I'm probably in the minority on this one, but I really think anything is possible in this one.

Dub's father's repeated insistence that he was never helping his son out financially and his later suicide have always kind of troubled me and do add an element of doubt to the idea that the two are dead (or at least were dead throughout that time).

Yeah, that revelation about Dub's father's suicide is certainly interesting and makes me think that Dub and Chance may have at least been on the run initially until something bad happened which prompted him to kill himself. I haven't discounted the possibility of a Christophe Day-type situation where Dub or Chance might have died of some non-murder-related reason while on the run.

If Dub's family has been complicit in helping him while he's on the run, I wonder what they do about Chance if, say, Dub dies of a heart attack or commits suicide. If Chance returns, there's always a risk of the family being charged with aiding a fugitive.

I think that James Kimball, the mentally ill young man who left his family's home after a dispute, might have been alive for some time after his disappearance, and could be living today.

Patricia Meehan is another missing person who could have lived (and very well may still be alive under a different name) after her disappearance. For one, the authorities believed she was hitching rides with truckers to make it across country. So there seems to be some sort of eyewitness accounts of truckers giving rides to women who acted and/or resembled her. There was also mention of how she may have suffered from some sort of memory loss due to the head on collision she was in right before she disappeared. Half of me believes she could have met with foul play (if she was hitching rides with truckers, this would be a very dangerous thing to do, especially with her deteriorating mental state), while the other half believes that she could have been spotted and taken to a group home somewhere, or even worse living homeless and lost without knowing who she is.

Patricia Meehan is another missing person who could have lived (and very well may still be alive under a different name) after her disappearance. For one, the authorities believed she was hitching rides with truckers to make it across country. So there seems to be some sort of eyewitness accounts of truckers giving rides to women who acted and/or resembled her. There was also mention of how she may have suffered from some sort of memory loss due to the head on collision she was in right before she disappeared. Half of me believes she could have met with foul play (if she was hitching rides with truckers, this would be a very dangerous thing to do, especially with her deteriorating mental state), while the other half believes that she could have been spotted and taken to a group home somewhere, or even worse living homeless and lost without knowing who she is.


There's some talk that Patricia may have ended up a victim of the evil pig farmer guy. (ok, fine, I'll google his name so he doesn't end up like "the fish guy") Robert Pickton

I think that James Kimball, the mentally ill young man who left his family's home after a dispute, might have been alive for some time after his disappearance, and could be living today.

Oo, didn't even think of Jim Kimball. Totally in agreement with you.

I haven't discounted the possibility of a Christophe Day-type situation where Dub or Chance might have died of some non-murder-related reason while on the run.

Especially in light of the fact that many people who go on the run often don't seek medical attention, and if they do, it's often when the circumstances are dire (a la Leo Koury).

If Dub's family has been complicit in helping him while he's on the run, I wonder what they do about Chance if, say, Dub dies of a heart attack or commits suicide. If Chance returns, there's always a risk of the family being charged with aiding a fugitive.

That's a great question. Chance's return would undoubtedly entail hours of police interviews, and unless he had a really, really good story crafted to avoid implicating any family members (provided he in fact was on the lam with his father the entire time), I could also see that being a very real possibility--although I'm unsure what the implications of Dub being deceased would be. Would there even be any prosecution at that point? I really have no actual idea.

Michael Hughes.

I know I'm probably in the minority on this one, but I really think anything is possible in this one.
Is there a particular reason you think that he could still be alive? I'm always interested in hearing folks opinions on cases.

I always thought the Judth Hyams segment was so intriguing and pretty creepy due to the voice in the re-enactment of the calls. Interesting theory--in terms of the update from the anonymous nurse who wrote a letter saying Judith died from complications during an illegal abortion, do you think (if she were alive) it was a false letter written by Judith or somebody who has helped her start a new life to throw them off her trail?

I always figured she had died due to complications with the abortion, but as I said, very interesting to think about the other part of it!

Very intriguing and very creepy indeed. Although personally I don't believe what happened to Judith is a mystery. I think it happened just as the letter stated it did. And one detail that stands out to me is how the letter is written. I quote line one from the letter:

"She came in for an abortion and was given an injection of anesthetic...."

The line illustrates that Judith came to the clinic. I would have thought that if it was a prank letter, that someone would have said "she WENT to." CAME indicates someone came to where the letter writer was. In other words, whoever wrote the letter was there in the clinic when Judith was there, and probably witnessed whatever happened. She might have been an assistant working there (we cannot judge from the segment how many people were in the clinic, that was a set with actors and not a real representation) or a witness who was also there for the procedure. This letter, I believe, is the key. I do not believe Judith Hymes is alive for one moment.

But as for the prank calls and Omaha? I have no clue. But this case sure has provided some laughs over the years.

I also tend to believe the letter. I think it was probably written by one of the nurses at the illegal clinic who wanted to clear things up and shatter any false hope family and friends may have held, perhaps because of guilt (especially after seeing the segment). But the three people making phone calls still gives me chills. Why? What would be the point of prank calling about such an old case? Could they have seen a woman they thought was Judy Himes? Did any of them know her? And how on Earth did they get the radio host's unlisted, private number? Even if Judy did die from a botched abortion, this case is still one of the most bizarre, confusing segments UM ever aired.

Unless the letter was written by Judith herself, anyway. Though I do believe she didn't write it, and what happened in the letter is what occurred.

Is there a particular reason you think that he could still be alive? I'm always interested in hearing folks opinions on cases.I would like to know, too.

Normally, I would be 50/50 on a case like this, but not when it involves Franklin Delano Floyd.

Tara Breckenridge-her boyfriend might be a drug dealer or some other kind of trouble causer, but he doesn't strike me as the person responsible for her disappearance. There are some guys in other cases who are the opposite and it's so blatantly obvious of their lies (i.e. Mark Nichols) but Wayne Hecker doesn't seem like that kind of person who would do such evildoings. He might be involved but then again he might not; there's no hard evidence he is. Therefore I am more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I kind of think that Gordon Page lived for at least a little while after he went missing. I'd like to think that he's maybe in a group home being well cared for, but deep down I don't know if I really believe that.

Good thread topic.

Selena Edon is the one that stands out for me the most. I think it's very possible she lived for quite some time or is still living today as a transient somewhere in the U.S.

I go back and forth on Dub and Chance Wackerhagen, which is probably why it's one of my favorite segments. I've gone from thinking Chance, Dub, and Letricia were all murdered by a third party to the theory that Dub and Chance perished in a murder-suicide shortly after the disappearance to the notion that at least Chance is alive and might even be living under a different name in the U.S. Dub's father's repeated insistence that he was never helping his son out financially and his later suicide have always kind of troubled me and do add an element of doubt to the idea that the two are dead (or at least were dead throughout that time). I don't know what I think about the disappearance, but I do think there is a possibility that they could both still be alive--now whether I'd bump that possibility up to 50%, I'm not sure.

Good gracious Meg!! Who is THAT in your Avatar? That is one mean assed looking sketch of a woman!:eek:

Good gracious Meg!! Who is THAT in your Avatar? That is one mean assed looking sketch of a woman!:eek:

That is a sketch of a woman wanted for questioning in the murder of Todd McAfee. A witness gave police a report of pumping gas on the other side of this woman, who appeared to be under the influence and was traveling with two men in an orange van. When one of the men returned from apparently paying for the gasoline, he noticed this woman speaking to the witness and reacted violently (the witness says he actually struck the woman as reprimanded her). He then threw her into the van and the three drove away.

An orange van like that described by the witness was spotted in McAfee's front yard the day of the murder.

I thought the sketch was quite distinct as well.

Michael Hughes.

I know I'm probably in the minority on this one, but I really think anything is possible in this one.
I would love to believe he is alive and I do admit this case is so bizarre that anything seems possible. Unfortunately, I think the bathtub story just might be true. Of course FDF is a liar and I would normally not believe what he had to say, but usually his lies are to benefit himself and make himself look good. I don't see why he would tell his sister such a story if it wasn't true, considering that story makes him look like the monster he is. :( I want to believe that he gave him away to a stable family, but I just don't see how that could be.

But the three people making phone calls still gives me chills. Why? What would be the point of prank calling about such an old case? Could they have seen a woman they thought was Judy Himes? Did any of them know her? And how on Earth did they get the radio host's unlisted, private number? Even if Judy did die from a botched abortion, this case is still one of the most bizarre, confusing segments UM ever aired.

These questions are the reasons I doubt the letter's authenticity. The first phone call to Chuck Scherer was from a guy claiming to be the radio host, and also claiming that someone called the radio station stating they had information on the Judith Himes case. Then the second phone call was from the woman who kept repeating that Judith Himes was alive and in Omaha. The third was the alleged FBI informant calling in to say he had been in touch with the doctor who allegedly performed the abortion. I don't know if the third call originated from Omaha or not, but the first two definitely did. If there were people in Omaha who did have information on the Himes disappearance, I don't understand why they would at first claim to have information on it and then change it to the fact that she's alive and living in Omaha. And these calls would have never happened had Chuck Scherer never gave his lectures in Omaha. That's another thing to consider. I think it's entirely possible that Judy or someone she knew (who knew that she was alive after her disappearance) had heard about Chuck Scherer being in town, knew he was from Coral Gables PD, and decided to call with vague information. It wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't Judy herself calling as the woman on the second phone call.

I'm 50/50 on Michael Hughes just because I don't believe anything FDF says. He went to a lot of effort to get Michael and didn't kill the principal. I could see him telling people he killed him if he didn't and vice versa.

The Judith Hymes segment, despite being one of the most classic and memorable segments in UM's long history, is extremely vague on Judith's background prior to becoming a missing person. Circa 1965, the only things we know about her is that she lived in Coral Gables, she was 22 and she worked as a medical lab technician. That's it. We don't know how close she was with her family, who she was dating, how happy she seemed with her job and her life...any evidence at all if she would even want to leave, pregnancy or no pregnancy.

The segment says she discovered she was pregnant in August of 1965. I assume a family member must have told the police that when she originally went missing because Judith's best friend, who was interviewed in the segment, said Judith never once told her that she was even pregnant. We don't hear from any family members whatsoever. So it's kind if interesting that it could never be confirmed that she was pregnant.

But dying during an illegal abortion in the mid-60's does seem plausible. If that were indeed the case, I still have plenty of questions. The three phone calls are bizarre any way you slice it because they happened a full 25 years after Judith disappeared. And also, why was her car abandoned in Atlanta, a full 650 miles away from Coral Cables? A man was witnessed removing a duffle bag from the trunk and then he simply walked away. Apparently there was no effort to remove the blood in the backseat. Whoever abandonned the car had to have known that it would be traced back to Judith. Did someone from the abortion clinic want it to look like that she had met with foul play?

Just a very strange case. The letter, if it's true, still leaves us with many questions.

I'm 50/50 on Michael Hughes just because I don't believe anything FDF says. He went to a lot of effort to get Michael and didn't kill the principal. I could see him telling people he killed him if he didn't and vice versa.
That is a good point. It's just so hard to tell considering the many twists and turns of this case. :confused:

Amy Bradley. I don't want to re-hash the whole case here, or accidentally bring FindAmy back out of the woodwork, but there were quite a few sightings of her after she disappeared.

Also, I think maybe Anthionette Cayadito could be alive, or at least, could have lived for a while after she disappeared.

Amy Bradley. I don't want to re-hash the whole case here, or accidentally bring FindAmy back out of the woodwork, but there were quite a few sightings of her after she disappeared.

Also, I think maybe Anthionette Cayadito could be alive, or at least, could have lived for a while after she disappeared.

uh oh! now you've summoned her! ;)

Gordon Collins

Judith Hyams (Himes) - I had only seen this segment on the Farina hosted episodes, so I was under the impression that Judith simply died from an illegal abortion and that her death was covered up. It was only until I saw the full Robert Stack segment that my mind began to wonder whether or not she indeed did die or simply wanted to start a new life. The segment mentions blood being found on the back seat of her rental car, but doesn't go into specifics like whether or not the amount was traces, or enough to assume she was dead. The segment also has three different mysterious callers call the Coral Gables PD (25 full years after she vanished, and after the Coral Gables PD pretty much wrote the case off) to claim that they either had information on the case or that they knew Judith was alive and living in Omaha. Considering the fact that the Coral Gables captain, Chuck Scherer, had traveled to Omaha to give a lecture, and then began to receive phone calls related to the case adds a big WTF moment in my mind. Scherer admits that he knew nothing of the case, never once brought it up to anyone during his stay in Omaha, and had never even heard the name before he began receiving the phone calls. I find the odds that these phone calls (3 of them) were all crank calls (considering the distance from Coral Gables to Omaha and the passage of time of the disappearance) to be astronomical. What are the odds that three people (in the pre-internet age) are going to conspire to mess with a 25 year old missing persons case with which they have no connection? The phone calls alone makes me wonder whether or not Judith was alive at the time, or if she did indeed reside in Omaha before Scherer was there to give his lecture. I'd say the odds of her living after her disappearance are 50/50.

That's why I became so frustrated with true crime cases, and seldom post on any of the related sites. There's no grasp of true probability. That's what you have to fight at every turn. Everyone is obsessed with the minuscule variables as opposed to the big picture. The preferred method is to feverishly attack every tiny nuance and string them together toward announcing a conclusion. Applause. I guess we want people to invest time, and since they did devote plenty of time and energy we're desperate to embrace the findings. Disregard that the likelihood of nailing each characteristic in a complicated case is next to nothing.

How are three purported phone calls decades later worth 50/50? You really want to bank on that? I'd love to bet the three calls were hardly independent. I know who has the advantage there. You can rely on reports. I'll take logic. If there were 3 strange calls in the same period, it's one source. And what difference does it make that Coral Gables and Omaha are distant?

I've been sampling some threads. Tommy Ziegler. Gad, do people love to guess. That's another one where every detail is woven together. I'll take a simple one. The prosecution was desperate for a motive so they claimed Ziegler was homosexual, or involved in homosexual activities. Fine. What percentage of men married to women, in that era or any era, are actually homosexual or bisexual? I'm already winning and I don't need to know much of anything. That's my type of game.

Here's another simple one based on the Ziegler case. Sorry if it's sort of in the wrong place: When a story is bizarre, its often intentionally bizarre, due to need. Michael Skakel up a tree. We know why Michael Skakel placed himself up that tree. But when a story is seemingly ridiculous but on the surface it's not trying to explain incriminating details, that story has a far greater chance of being truthful than we dare to believe, or detectives want to believe, and certainly it's far more likely to be legit that anything the creative prosecuting charlatans dream up. Charles Holden was extremely fortunate that there was just enough evidence in that house, and a few supporting witnesses outside the fast food joint. Otherwise the charlatans would have sculpted a fiendish scenario depicting Holden as the perpetrator, passionately backed by Holden's relatives. It was a fortuitous escape, just like the son and daughter in law who were charged with murder in Utah, the Kay Mortensen case. No physical evidence despite a brutal murder and 5 people in the house. Incredible tale. True.

When the story is bizarre and bodies lying around, you’ve got to hit an extremely unlikely parlay to escape to the rest of your life. That’s the aspect that is never emphasized or understood. That bloody towel with a big swatch of third party blood doesn’t have to be there. Fingerprints don’t have to be there. Witnesses don’t have to be there. Speculators understand the burden of a multi pronged parlay. Not here. I’ve seen posters all but celebrate the fact that nothing has surfaced to free Jeffrey MacDonald. They act as if it cements their version. Talk about ignorance. MacDonald never claimed there were injured intruders, or anything that could produce something like a bloody shirt, like the one in the Ziegler case. MacDonald's team was grasping at a straw, or a hair. My hair in my house. How unlikely.

Ziegler’s team has evidence that the prosecuting charlatans guessed incorrectly at every step of the way. Big shock. But that’s not nearly enough. That parlay after conviction has so many prongs they almost can’t be fully listed: Significant physical evidence sourced from the sloppy perpetrator(s), competent retention and preservation of that evidence over decades, ethical handling and testing of the evidence even though it could stain the department reputation if the result strays, judges who will accept the new findings as relevant enough…etc., etc.

I’m not claiming it’s a significant sample size. The cases become well known because they are so rare. But I guarantee there are others out there, people jailed due to unusual stories and crime scene reconstruction charlatans. Since crime scene reconstruction became more advanced in simple cases with few variables, the system and conventional wisdom unfortunately allows too much weight in complex cases. It's not a 10% leap. It's exponentially more difficult, and therefore very unlikely to approximate what actually took place, but that's not how it's viewed.

It's the same fixation on sports or political sites but at least you get a result, a glorious result. The result is the dictator. My approach isn't always appreciated there, either, but I end up with wows and praise because my simple systems or angles point to the result more dependably than someone who obsesses over the irrelevant details. For example, on those sites somebody will invariably announce that they went through every play from the previous season and scrutinized the quarterback. Well, that's great. If you have to watch every play I make it a massive favorite you have absolutely no clue what you are doing. The analysis was undoubtedly performed toward a biased result. It's more valid to prop one category with long term proven aim, like Adjusted Yards Per Pass Attempt.

These questions are the reasons I doubt the letter's authenticity. The first phone call to Chuck Scherer was from a guy claiming to be the radio host, and also claiming that someone called the radio station stating they had information on the Judith Himes case. Then the second phone call was from the woman who kept repeating that Judith Himes was alive and in Omaha. The third was the alleged FBI informant calling in to say he had been in touch with the doctor who allegedly performed the abortion. I don't know if the third call originated from Omaha or not, but the first two definitely did. If there were people in Omaha who did have information on the Himes disappearance, I don't understand why they would at first claim to have information on it and then change it to the fact that she's alive and living in Omaha. And these calls would have never happened had Chuck Scherer never gave his lectures in Omaha. That's another thing to consider. I think it's entirely possible that Judy or someone she knew (who knew that she was alive after her disappearance) had heard about Chuck Scherer being in town, knew he was from Coral Gables PD, and decided to call with vague information. It wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't Judy herself calling as the woman on the second phone call.

Maybe it's just me, but I never put a lot of stock in the phone calls. I believe the botched abortion scenario is probably the most likely since there was evidence that she was in the process of trying to get one, the hinky circumstances behind her blood-stained car being abandoned in another state, and the anonymous letter, which even the police seemed to suspect was legitimate.

While the calls to Scherer and the radio host are certainly strange, they seem like a red-herring to me, and kind of remind me of the mysterious letters from Flint, Michigan saying that Kari Lynn Nixon could be found in South Carolina. Someone, somewhere, for whatever reason, became fixated on the case and decided to inject themselves in to it. Another possibility - someone who was actually involved in Hyams' disappearance or knew of Hadju's involvement and possible whereabouts, perhaps out of feelings of guilt or remorse, was "reaching out" in an attempt to get some exposure and a possible resolution.

It has been some time since I watched it, but I remember having a Hell of a time trying to deduce my way through the Charles Horvath segment.

Also, along the lines of missing persons who may have been alive, at least for some time after the disappearance, I always had a feeling that Rogest Cain fit this category. Although I believe that Cain has since died, I do seem to recall some eyewitness sightings, and other evidence that he was still alive and possibly had worked some jobs following his initial disappearance. Although, I think he probably had a stroke, and that certainly doesn't bode well for his survival for very long.

I think Kristi Krebs had a mental break, wandered away from her car and is still out there somewhere...not knowing who she is (which is why she hasn't contacted her family)

But then there is always the question in my mind...did she maybe just wander off and they haven't found the body yet? That has happened in SO many cases, so that's possible too. (but I hope not)

How are three purported phone calls decades later worth 50/50? You really want to bank on that? I'd love to bet the three calls were hardly independent. I know who has the advantage there. You can rely on reports. I'll take logic. If there were 3 strange calls in the same period, it's one source. And what difference does it make that Coral Gables and Omaha are distant?

The three phone calls had to have come from at least two sources. The alleged FBI informant who called Chuck Scherer with information with regards to the whereabouts of the doctor who performed the abortion in Hungary, and provided Scherer with a phone number. Scherer contacted Interpol, and the phone number did in fact match the name of the doctor, Hadju. That does not strike me as a crank call. This third call came only after a newspaper article appeared in a Coral Gables newspaper, and had nothing to do with Omaha. Therefore, the calls cannot be all from one source. And this was in 1990. Pre-internet era. There wouldn't be a huge vested interest in a disappearance 25 years ago from Florida to Nebraska. Unless of course the people knew Judith Himes. It's too big of a coincidence to write these off, IMO. Chuck Scherer would have never even known about the case had it not been for these phone calls.

I'm already winning and I don't need to know much of anything. That's my type of game.

I'm very happy for you.

Maybe it's just me, but I never put a lot of stock in the phone calls. I believe the botched abortion scenario is probably the most likely since there was evidence that she was in the process of trying to get one, the hinky circumstances behind her blood-stained car being abandoned in another state, and the anonymous letter, which even the police seemed to suspect was legitimate.

While the calls to Scherer and the radio host are certainly strange, they seem like a red-herring to me, and kind of remind me of the mysterious letters from Flint, Michigan saying that Kari Lynn Nixon could be found in South Carolina. Someone, somewhere, for whatever reason, became fixated on the case and decided to inject themselves in to it. Another possibility - someone who was actually involved in Hyams' disappearance or knew of Hadju's involvement and possible whereabouts, perhaps out of feelings of guilt or remorse, was "reaching out" in an attempt to get some exposure and a possible resolution.

I could accept the fact that the calls were nothing more than red herrings, if there was a plausible explanation for them. The first thought that popped in my mind (after seeing the segment) was that she died after the abortion. But then seeing the full segment, I began to question whether or not the calls had any bearing over the case. I figured it was possible that Hadju, or someone close to him could have been responsible for the calls figuring that if he planted the thought in LE's head that Judith was alive, more heat would be taken off of him. But they specifically mention that the authorities do not believe Hadju was behind the phone calls. The possibility of a person who was a witness to the abortion, who felt guilt or remorse, makes sense for the third phone call (the FBI informant), but doesn't explain the first two calls. And the third call only came in after a newspaper in Coral Gables ran a story about the Judith Himes disappearance. This third call had no connection it seems to the other two that originated from Omaha.

The fake radio host call is bizarre in itself, because the caller gave out the correct unlisted phone number of the real radio host. And there were no specifics given out, only that a caller had called the radio station and stated he had information on the Judy Himes case. The second call came in two days later with the infamous, "alive and in Omaha" line. And Judy's friend brings up a valid point in the segment about Judy being a lab technician, that she would be smart enough to get help if things went sour during the abortion. The car had "traces" of blood in the backseat, but the amount must have been miniscule since police say by the time they got to investigate it had been mishandled, and that it was ruined. All of these things combined put enough doubt, IMO, about her death. Believe me, I'm a firm believer in Occam's Razor, and that the most likely scenario in this case is Judy dying after a botched abortion. But then again, there are nagging aspects of the case that don't make it seem as cut and dried as it does.

I do find it odd that no member of Judy's family appeared in the segment. As well as the guy dumping the car in Atlanta. That would seem to indicate he was involved somehow (be it her death or helping her disappear). And according to unsolved.com, they officially closed Judy's case after the letter was received after the segment aired. Which makes no sense. If the authorities believe she died during a botched abortion, wouldn't Hadju become a suspect in her death?!

And according to unsolved.com, they officially closed Judy's case after the letter was received after the segment aired. Which makes no sense. If the authorities believe she died during a botched abortion, wouldn't Hadju become a suspect in her death?!
An investigator interviewed said something about how they weren't interested in prosecuting anyone as the statute of limitations had expired. While Hadju was already on the run for other charges, they couldn't have gotten him for this crime, apparently.

I could accept the fact that the calls were nothing more than red herrings, if there was a plausible explanation for them. The first thought that popped in my mind (after seeing the segment) was that she died after the abortion. But then seeing the full segment, I began to question whether or not the calls had any bearing over the case. I figured it was possible that Hadju, or someone close to him could have been responsible for the calls figuring that if he planted the thought in LE's head that Judith was alive, more heat would be taken off of him. But they specifically mention that the authorities do not believe Hadju was behind the phone calls.

Agreed. Not to mention I wonder how much heat was really on Hadju at that point. It has been some time since I last watched the segment, but wasn't Hadju wanted for unlawful flight, practicing as a physician without a license, and possibly for performing illegal abortions (a law that would have been repealed by the time of the phone calls) and little, if anything, else? I believe he was also a person of interest in Judith's disappearance. Serious charges, to be sure. However, at the time of the calls to Shearer, Hadju was mostly likely in another country, and I can't imagine the authorities state-side were upturning every stone to find him all those years later. Therefore, I doubt the point of the calls was to take heat off Hadju. As you said, the authorities indicated that they didn't suspect Hadju made the calls anyway.

The possibility of a person who was a witness to the abortion, who felt guilt or remorse, makes sense for the third phone call (the FBI informant), but doesn't explain the first two calls.

I disagree. I think it is possible that all of these calls were connected and made by the same person, or at least instigated by the same person. You have to ask yourself, what was the point of the calls? Consider...

1. Hadju was most likely off the radar as he fled years ago and was most likely living abroad beyond the reach of American LE, and the crimes he committed were not terribly serious in the grand scheme of things.

2. Since Hadju was a "person of interest" and it was suspected by LE that Judith had sought Hadju's assistance for an illegal abortion, LE most likely (correctly) presumed that Hyams was deceased.

3. The Hyams disappearance case was probably either inactive and/or closed on the basis that there were no other substantial leads except for Hadju, and he was gone. Additionally, there wasn't enough evidence to charge Hadju with anything more serious, so the case was stalled.

All that being said, I think it is possible that the caller was involved in the abortion and ultimately the death of Judith Hyams.

The first call to Shearer as the radio host was a very simple "nudge" to get LE's attention back on to the Hyams case.

When this didn't amount to much (it's execution was lame, though we can deduce the caller may have had some connection to the radio show host if for no other reason than he had his unlisted number) the second, infamous, "Judy Hyams is alive and she lives in Omaha" calls came.

If the UM re-enactment is accurate, the caller never divulged their identity, nor did they divulge any real information.

I think the reason is that this was someone who felt guilty about involvement in Hyams' disappearance and death, and wanted to get it off their chest and "do right" by confessing in a half-assed sort of way. I think this person was genuinely concerned about being prosecuted, and those concerns, legitimate or not, were strong enough that they didn't want to come forward. Nor did they even bother to go directly to a source that could have "hurt" them. Instead the caller sought out an officer who merely worked for the same department, yet didn't investigate the Hyams case, as he obviously wouldn't have been around at the time.

I think the whole reason for saying "Judy Hyams is alive" is because it gets attention. If the caller said "Judy Hyams is dead," it wouldn't have meant a whole lot because the police likely would have suspected as much anyway. However, if they plant the seed that she could be alive, LE would be forced to investigate this claim, and we know they did.

And the third call only came in after a newspaper in Coral Gables ran a story about the Judith Himes disappearance. This third call had no connection it seems to the other two that originated from Omaha.

I think it was from the same source. This is the first call that conveys ANY real, valid, verifiable information - Hadju's phone number. I think the caller realized that they were not having the intended affect with the first two calls, so this was an attempt to rectify the situation by giving LE something they could really act upon.

The fake radio host call is bizarre in itself, because the caller gave out the correct unlisted phone number of the real radio host. And there were no specifics given out, only that a caller had called the radio station and stated he had information on the Judy Himes case. The second call came in two days later with the infamous, "alive and in Omaha" line.

Right. Neither call contained anything substantial.

And Judy's friend brings up a valid point in the segment about Judy being a lab technician, that she would be smart enough to get help if things went sour during the abortion.

She could have been sedated/unconscious during the abortion when things went wrong. The letter indicated she had an allergic reaction to a medication she was given. I think the whole situation would have been beyond her control, and she was dealing with some unscrupulous folks who were more interested in saving their own butts than doing the right thing and getting her legitimate medical attention.

The car had "traces" of blood in the backseat, but the amount must have been miniscule since police say by the time they got to investigate it had been mishandled, and that it was ruined.

I mean this in a nice way, but this kind of reminds me of the Paul Ferrell blood argument. The presence of blood, considered in conjunction with the other circumstances, is likely not coincidental.

I do find it odd that no member of Judy's family appeared in the segment. As well as the guy dumping the car in Atlanta. That would seem to indicate he was involved somehow (be it her death or helping her disappear). And according to unsolved.com, they officially closed Judy's case after the letter was received after the segment aired. Which makes no sense. If the authorities believe she died during a botched abortion, wouldn't Hadju become a suspect in her death?!

I always thought the non-presence of a family member in the segment was strange too. However, we know next to nothing about Hyams' personal life. Maybe she didn't have any close living family who could be interviewed.

I hate to assume facts that aren't stated, but I've always wondered if LE had more evidence to suggest the outcome reached here was correct, but not enough to indict anyone. Again, I think of Hadju, but he would have been long gone, and the evidence likely wasn't strong enough to warrant more serious charges than what they already had. There are many cases where LE "knows the truth" but just can't bring charges, and, I've always felt this was one of them.

1. Hadju was most likely off the radar as he fled years ago and was most likely living abroad beyond the reach of American LE, and the crimes he committed were not terribly serious in the grand scheme of things.

2. Since Hadju was a "person of interest" and it was suspected by LE that Judith had sought Hadju's assistance for an illegal abortion, LE most likely (correctly) presumed that Hyams was deceased.

This is yet another part of the case that makes it baffling to me. I had found an old article from the 60's (dated a year after Judith disappeared) that said Judith was friends with a doctor and a dentist, both of whom knew Hadju, and both of whom LE suspected introduced Judith to Hadju. Both of them clammed up when it came time to talk to LE, so LE went straight to Hadju. He claimed to have only ran into Judith infrequently, since she was a lab technician, and that he didn't even know her last name. Take from that what you will, but perhaps without proof that Judith did in fact go to Hadju, I suppose there was no strong case against him.

3. The Hyams disappearance case was probably either inactive and/or closed on the basis that there were no other substantial leads except for Hadju, and he was gone. Additionally, there wasn't enough evidence to charge Hadju with anything more serious, so the case was stalled.

I agree. Without a solid lead (or a witness who could place Judith at Hadju's "clinic"), there really was nothing concrete against Hadju, unfortunately.

The first call to Shearer as the radio host was a very simple "nudge" to get LE's attention back on to the Hyams case.

When this didn't amount to much (it's execution was lame, though we can deduce the caller may have had some connection to the radio show host if for no other reason than he had his unlisted number) the second, infamous, "Judy Hyams is alive and she lives in Omaha" calls came.

If the UM re-enactment is accurate, the caller never divulged their identity, nor did they divulge any real information.

This is where the phone calls make no sense to me. If this was in fact someone with a guilty conscious trying to half-heartedly confess, why even make the second phone call claiming Judith was alive and living in Omaha? It makes zero sense. Couldn't they have simply combined the first and third phone call (if this was in fact the same person behind them all) saying that they have information on Judith's disappearance and supply Scherer with the number to Hadju? That would make more sense than posing as a radio host, and then getting a woman to call claiming that Judith is alive and well in a city where an officer who wasn't even around on the Coral Gables PD back when Judith disappeared recently gave a lecture.

I think the reason is that this was someone who felt guilty about involvement in Hyams' disappearance and death, and wanted to get it off their chest and "do right" by confessing in a half-assed sort of way. I think this person was genuinely concerned about being prosecuted, and those concerns, legitimate or not, were strong enough that they didn't want to come forward. Nor did they even bother to go directly to a source that could have "hurt" them. Instead the caller sought out an officer who merely worked for the same department, yet didn't investigate the Hyams case, as he obviously wouldn't have been around at the time.

Forgive me if I'm stretching it a bit, but it seems like if this caller was concerned about being id'ed and prosecuted, he shouldn't have posed as the radio host, nor should he have had someone call and claim Judith was alive and in Omaha. It would be much less risky for this guy to go to a payphone and give Scherer what information he had. With the risk of sounding like I'm over-analyzing, the caller claimed to be the radio host in Omaha. The real radio host says he had an unlisted number, and only friends and family would know the number. This means that there was a high probability that the caller knew the radio host. And then calling to claim that Judith was alive and in Omaha could have produced an even more intense investigation into the area, and ultimately led to the identity of the caller. It doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to do if you consider the caller had to have been a friend, acquaintance, coworker, or family member of the real radio show host. If this guy wanted anonymity, he certainly left several clues that could have led back to him.

I think the whole reason for saying "Judy Hyams is alive" is because it gets attention. If the caller said "Judy Hyams is dead," it wouldn't have meant a whole lot because the police likely would have suspected as much anyway. However, if they plant the seed that she could be alive, LE would be forced to investigate this claim, and we know they did.

Well if Judith was dead, and the caller was involved somehow, why not just place a call saying Judith died, this is how, here's Hadju's number, goodbye? By saying she's alive and in Omaha (as I've stated above) would bring the investigation to Omaha, potentially leading to the ID of the caller.

I think it was from the same source. This is the first call that conveys ANY real, valid, verifiable information - Hadju's phone number. I think the caller realized that they were not having the intended affect with the first two calls, so this was an attempt to rectify the situation by giving LE something they could really act upon.

The one reason I tend to think they might not be related is because the first two seemed to stem from Omaha, after Scherer's visit, and neither really had any solid leads. The third call came in (IIRC the caller verified seeing the story in the paper) after the newspaper ran the story on Judith's case. It would seem to indicate the third caller was in or around the Coral Gables area.

She could have been sedated/unconscious during the abortion when things went wrong. The letter indicated she had an allergic reaction to a medication she was given. I think the whole situation would have been beyond her control, and she was dealing with some unscrupulous folks who were more interested in saving their own butts than doing the right thing and getting her legitimate medical attention.

I had forgot about that portion of the letter. But yes, if she was knocked out, everything would have been beyond her control.

I mean this in a nice way, but this kind of reminds me of the Paul Ferrell blood argument. The presence of blood, considered in conjunction with the other circumstances, is likely not coincidental.

The only reason I brought up "traces" of blood being found was I could see a scenario where during a "successful" illegal abortion, blood would be produced. If Judith did survive, and want to start anew because of fear, embarrassment, whatever, that could have been her blood in the backseat of the car, if she called someone to pick her up and give her a ride somewhere. The old article from the 60's I referenced above says that a "pimply faced youth" was seen exiting her car in the Georgia area. I really could see this as either Judith giving the kid some money to ditch the car, or Hadju or one of his associates doing this to cover up her death.

I always thought the non-presence of a family member in the segment was strange too. However, we know next to nothing about Hyams' personal life. Maybe she didn't have any close living family who could be interviewed.

I've seen two separate articles which say Judith's father was a very successful contractor in the Coral Gables area. He may have been dead at the time of the taping, or perhaps she was an only child.

I hate to assume facts that aren't stated, but I've always wondered if LE had more evidence to suggest the outcome reached here was correct, but not enough to indict anyone. Again, I think of Hadju, but he would have been long gone, and the evidence likely wasn't strong enough to warrant more serious charges than what they already had. There are many cases where LE "knows the truth" but just can't bring charges, and, I've always felt this was one of them.

That's what makes Judith's case so frustrating. UM left out facts, played up possible red-herrings, and then stated on the update that the authorities believed the letter written was authentic. I'm probably leaning more towards 90/10 on Judith's disappearance now, because it does seem that she died as the result of a botched abortion. It's that one damn cheesy line about being alive and in Omaha that keeps me second guessing though.