New Kurt Cobain Photo to be Released by Seattle Police
3/20/14
by The Associated Press


With the 20th anniversary of Kurt Cobain's death approaching, a Seattle police detective re-examined the case files in connection with the Nirvana front man's suicide.

Police spokeswoman Renee Witt said Thursday the review found nothing new. But while looking over the files, the detective found several rolls of undeveloped film, Witt said. Seattle police plan to release one image from that discovery later Thursday.

"There was nothing earth-shattering in any of these images," Witt said.





Police took another look at the Cobain suicide to be ready to answer questions in connection with next month's anniversary, she said.

"There's still a lot of interest in this case," Witt said. "The detective went into the case files to refresh himself. The outcome of the case has not changed."





Cobain's body was discovered in Seattle on April 8, 1994. An investigation determined that days earlier Cobain had gone into the greenhouse of his large home and taken a massive dose of heroin. He then shot himself with a 20-gauge shotgun. Earlier that year Cobain had tried to kill himself in Rome by taking an overdose of tranquilizers.

Cobain, who was 27 when he died, sold millions of albums with Nirvana and helped popularize the Pacific Northwest's heavy, muddy "grunge" rock, along with bands like Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains and Mudhoney.



After his death thousands of young people converged on Seattle Center, near the Space Needle, for a public memorial.

Cobain grew up in the logging town of Aberdeen, Wash., about two hours west of Seattle. A riverfront park there is dedicated to his memory.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/earshot/new-kurt-cobain-photo-be-690060

It was clearly a suicide. Why else would there be a suicide note?

It was clearly a suicide. Why else would there be a suicide note?

Are you talking about the goodbye letter to his fans? Kurt was going to retire from the music business. He wrote nothing about dying.

Justice for Kurt (http://www.justiceforkurt.com/)

The Kurt Cobain Murder Investigation (http://www.cobaincase.com/)

Are you talking about the goodbye letter to his fans? Kurt was going to retire from the music business. He wrote nothing about dying.


Are you talking about the suicide note? Unless you are reading things more literally than a computer, this seems crystal clear to me:

"Please keep going Courtney, for Frances.
For her life, which will be so much happier without me."

Would love to hear how that is not about dying in the context of the note.

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"]Are you talking about the goodbye letter to his fans? Kurt was going to retire from the music business. He wrote nothing about dying.
]


And his suicide attempt in Rome approximately 1 month prior to his death...I suppose that was the work of Courtney and her co-conspirators as well?

There is absolutely no mystery whatsoever about Cobain's death. Case closed.

"Please keep going Courtney, for Frances.
For her life, which will be so much happier without me."

Would love to hear how that is not about dying in the context of the note.

Actually, it's been proven that those words written at the bottom of the note were not Kurt's handwriting. Experts have said that someone else wrote them.

Actually, it's been proven that those words written at the bottom of the note were not Kurt's handwriting. Experts have said that someone else wrote them.

Has it? I know in the segment they mention that they cannot confirm that Kirk wrote the sentences. I always wondered if he was drug induced when he wrote these. He would obviously have been in an emotional state. I'm not sure my handwriting looks normal when I'm emotional.

Actually, it's been proven that those words written at the bottom of the note were not Kurt's handwriting. Experts have said that someone else wrote them.

Interesting claim. Please provide link/source.

Interesting claim. Please provide link/source.

This was actually touched on in the UM segment. It is the opinion of one handwriting analyst. He thinks the last four lines were not written by Kurt Cobain. Of course, that's far from proof, as you know.

FWIW, here is a transcript of the suicide note. It's pretty sad:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Music/comments/16e15s/i_transcribed_kurt_cobains_suicide_note_ive_never/

This was actually touched on in the UM segment. It is the opinion of one handwriting analyst. He thinks the last four lines were not written by Kurt Cobain. Of course, that's far from proof, as you know.


MegtheEgg86- thanks for the info! As you say, that's far from proof. But Tap Dancer mentioned it had been proven, so I'm wondering if there's something we don't know and I'd like to know what that proof is.

And his suicide attempt in Rome approximately 1 month prior to his death...I suppose that was the work of Courtney and her co-conspirators as well?

There is absolutely no mystery whatsoever about Cobain's death. Case closed.


The suicide attempt in Rome was NOT called a suicide attempt until after Kurt's death. Prior to that, it was a simple case of mixing things he shouldn't have mixed.

People who messed with Courtney's plans had a habit of turning up dead. Kurt, Kristen Pfaff. Eldon Hoke.


There are lots of strange things that went on around Kurt's death. I recommend reading "Who Killed Kurt Cobain?" for a decent look at the murder theory.

I recommend watching Kurt & Courtney the documentary by Nick Bloomfield for an in depth look at what is possibly the worst documentary ever made. Ever. Including ones made by 7th graders for media classes.

People who messed with Courtney's plans had a habit of turning up dead. Kurt, Kristen Pfaff. Eldon Hoke.
People who mess with heroin and coke have a habit of turning up dead.

Kurt Cobain Photos Reveal Drug Paraphernalia
by Korina Lopez, USA TODAY
3/21/14


Kurt Cobain has been dead for 20 years, but conspiracy theories speculating that he was murdered are very much alive.

Knowing that interest in Cobain's death would surge with the anniversary of his death in April. Detective Mike Ciesynski revisited the files. What he found were four rolls of undeveloped film from the crime scene.

Late Thursday night, the photos were released; One showed a box with a spoon and needles, half a cigarette and sunglasses. The other photo showed cash, a cigarette pack and a wallet with what looks like Cobain's ID next to the closed box.





A statement from Ciesynski on the Seattle Police Department's online blotter reiterated that conspiracy theories are "completely inaccurate. It's a suicide. This is a closed case."

"There was nothing earth-shattering in any of these images," police spokeswoman Renee Witt said.





Cobain's body had been discovered in Seattle on April 8, 1994. An investigation determined that days earlier Cobain had gone into the greenhouse of his large home and taken a massive dose of heroin. He then shot himself with a 20-gauge shotgun.

Earlier that year, Cobain had tried to kill himself in Rome by taking an overdose of tranquilizers. When his daughter Frances Bean was born, he learned Child Protective Services was concerned about her well-being because of his and wife Courtney Love's drug abuse. He went to the hospital with one of the many guns he owned, and threatened to kill himself and his wife.





Charles R. Cross, who wrote the 2001 definitive biography of Cobain, Heavier Than Heaven, and who recently released his views of the doomed star's life and the impact of his death in his new book, Here We Are Now, is equally adamant that conspiracy theories are unfounded.

"He made suicide attempts long before Courtney even came into the picture," Cross told USA TODAY. "There were also the reckless drug overdoses, of which there were many; they show a reckless disregard for living. Maybe Kurt never had a chance."

"How a person who repeatedly tried to commit suicide over the years then gets murdered makes no sense," he said.

Suicide and depression ran in his family as well. Two of his uncles committed suicide and his great-grandfather killed himself in front of his own family.





Cross also addresses the impact of Cobain's drug addiction on the music industry. Before Cobain's death, he writes, record labels simply contained their artists with addictions by keeping them supplied with drugs.

Since then, labels and managers have taken proactive steps to help the talent by bringing sober coaches on the road as well as cordoning off drug-free zones backstage. Cross also says that the year following his death saw a decline in suicides in the region.





Cobain grew up in Aberdeen, Wash., an economically depressed town with a high suicide rate about two hours southwest of Seattle. He and his family always struggled financially, but after his parents divorced when he was a teenager they became estranged, and he survived by sleeping on friends' couches.

After Cobain died, thousands of young people converged on the Seattle Center, near the Space Needle, for a public memorial. In his hometown, Feb. 20 was declared Kurt Cobain Day in 2005. A statue of the doomed singer weeping was later erected there. His childhood home may also become a museum.





When Cobain died he was 27, making him a member of the grisly 27 Club, comprised of other promising musicians: Amy Winehouse, Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix, who was also from Seattle, Janis Joplin and Rolling Stones guitarist Brian Jones.

When Nirvana skyrocketed to fame after the release of Nevermind, Cobain became the unwitting leader of the grunge scene, altering Seattle's cultural identity forever.

He had an impact on fashion, too. His style, which consisted of torn-up jeans and flannel shirts, showed up on runways, selling for hundreds of dollars — ironic, considering he dressed that way because he was poor most of his life. He didn't achieve wealth until the last two years of his life. He bought most of his clothes at garage sales and thrift shops, and would often wear the same clothes for days.



Nirvana takes its place in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame next month.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2014/03/20/police-will-release-new-kurt-cobain-photo/6661603/

This was actually touched on in the UM segment. It is the opinion of one handwriting analyst. He thinks the last four lines were not written by Kurt Cobain. Of course, that's far from proof, as you know.

FWIW, here is a transcript of the suicide note. It's pretty sad:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Music/comments/16e15s/i_transcribed_kurt_cobains_suicide_note_ive_never/

Thanks, Meg. Also, I put two links in my original message.

But Tap Dancer mentioned it had been proven, so I'm wondering if there's something we don't know and I'd like to know what that proof is.

Please visit this link to see the note Kurt wrote. You'll also see the last 4 lines and a sample of Courtney's handwriting: http://www.justiceforkurt.com/investigation/handwriting.shtml

From the same link above, I quote this sentence:
Notice the handwriting is much bigger, and experts that Tom Grant has talked to say this was not written by the same person.

Thanks, Meg. Also, I put two links in my original message.

Sorry about that; I must have missed the links you posted. My mistake. :)

Sorry about that; I must have missed the links you posted. My mistake. :)

No worries. :)

moving2 had said, "Interesting claim. Please provide link/source." I was letting that person know that I already HAD provided information that he or she didn't look at. It's in post #3 (http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showpost.php?p=4888730&postcount=3) of this thread.

I was thanking you for providing additional information. :D

Tap Dancer- I'm still a little confused here. You claim:

it's been proven that those words written at the bottom of the note were not Kurt's handwriting.

However:

1. The links you post only vaguely refer to "experts Tom Grant has talked to" and not specific handwriting analysis experts.

2. The Unsolved Mysteries segment itself includes 2 handwriting analysis experts (Marcel Matley and Reginald Alton) who, at best, bring up questions as to the possibility of a second hand at work. There is nothing conclusive presented here.

3. According to Sean T. O'Donnell of the Seattle PD, the handwriting analyst at the Washington State Crime Lab believes the entire note was written by Cobain.

4. The official cause of death is listed as suicide, so the "experts" obviously believe differently than you claim.

While I understand some have raised doubts about the handwriting on the note, I still fail to see where "it has been proven" that the words written at the bottom of the note were not Kurt's handwriting. Again, please do let us know if you know something we don't regarding this proof.

Since none of us was there, all we have are our own guesses as to what happened. Keep in mind that police make mistakes and sometimes do shoddy work, too. Remember how they waited until the following month before checking the gun for fingerprints? I think Courtney hired someone to murder Kurt because he was in the process of divorcing her and trying to get custody of Frances. Then she hired Tom Grant because she was "concerned" that Kurt was missing. Necco recommended the book Who Killed Kurt Cobain? It's been years since I read it, but I remember thinking it was interesting.

Anyway, I can't convince you or anyone else of anything, so I'll bow out of this thread now. There are a lot of other threads I'd like to focus on. :wave:

Don't forget the documentary Kurt and Courtney. I recommend it as a drinking game. Drink every time the filmmaker talks about Courtney threatening to sue them or every time he complains about running out of money.


I am not responsible for the hangover that results. :)

Anyway, I can't convince you or anyone else of anything, so I'll bow out of this thread now. There are a lot of other threads I'd like to focus on. :wave:

Tap Dancer- no need to convince, really, just to discuss. In any case, I'd suggest this:

it's been proven that those words written at the bottom of the note were not Kurt's handwriting.


should probably say this:

I believe that those words written at the bottom of the note were not Kurt's handwriting.

But it's not just tap dancer who believes it. It's handwriting experts.

And let's face it, what is proven to one person is not necessarily proven to another so by those standards, one would have to say "I believe that evolution is real" in case there are any New Earth Creationists in the group.

Unsolved Mysteries cited two handwriting experts as are mentioned here: http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/leg_kurt_cobain.htm

But it's not just tap dancer who believes it. It's handwriting experts.

Really? Please name the handwriting experts who have stated anything conclusive- i.e., matched it to anyone else. Again, the links posted by Tap Dancer only vaguely refer to "experts Tom Grant has talked to" and not specific handwriting analysis experts. If you have some links with anything more than questions raised, I'd love to see 'em.


And let's face it, what is proven to one person is not necessarily proven to another so by those standards, one would have to say "I believe that evolution is real" in case there are any New Earth Creationists in the group.

Sorry, but I don't think your analogy applies here. DNA evidence is conclusive proof. Handwriting analysis experts who say "maybe" a second hand was involved, and especially without matching the handwriting to anyone else, is anything but conclusive proof. Match the handwriting to Courtney, get a consensus between a few independent analysts on that, then you'll have something.

Tap Dancer claims it had been proven someone else wrote the end of the note, but when I ask where the proof is, Tap Dancer says he/she can't convince me and moves on. The most I see here is some handwriting experts who believe a second writer may have been involved, and then some who believe Cobain wrote the letter. The two handwriting experts on unsolved stopped before saying anything conclusive, and note they did not match the handwriting to Courtney's. Why not, if this is what is claimed by Tom Grant? And again, Tom Grant only vaguely refers to "experts" without referencing them.


Unsolved Mysteries cited two handwriting experts as are mentioned here: http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/leg_kurt_cobain.htm

Yes, those are the same two handwriting experts I referenced in my post.

- Marcel Matley: “As to the last four lines, there are more than a dozen differences that should give us pause. And we would have to reasonably explain these differences before we can conclude that the same person wrote the four lines that wrote the body of it.”

- Reginald Alton: "There are many indications that there may have been a second hand at work."

- Washington State Crime Lab (According to Seattle PD): “We did take the note from the scene and have it examined at the Washington State crime lab. And their handwriting analyst has indicated that it is her belief that this note was written by Mr. Cobain.”

Questions raised? Sure. Proven? Not by a long shot.

Read the book. It's a good read and it raises a LOT of questions about Courtney's behavior, motives, etc.

Read the book. It's a good read and it raises a LOT of questions about Courtney's behavior, motives, etc.

Necco- sounds interesting. Will do. Thanks.

The man talked about suicide in just about every interview he gave, had major drug problems, and everyone acts like the fact he killed himself is such a freaking mystery. :rolleyes:

The man talked about suicide in just about every interview he gave, had major drug problems, and everyone acts like the fact he killed himself is such a freaking mystery. :rolleyes:

Like I touched on earlier in another thread, how we're still stuck on this when Tupac Shakur and Christopher Wallace were absolutely gunned down in cold blood and their killers have never been identified kind of shocks me. Ditto for Bobby Fuller. I don't know how that young man died or if anyone else had a hand in it, but that death deserves a second look with fresh eyes and minds.

Kurt Cobain Death Scene Note Mocks Vows to Courtney Love
by Greg Fisher, CBS News
4/29/14


A note discovered in the wallet of music legend Kurt Cobain at the time of his death, but kept secret until now, promises to add fuel to the pop culture fascination with Cobain and stoke further questions about what role his famously troubled personal life and marriage played in his demise.

When police arrived to find Cobain dead at his Seattle area home on April 8, 1994, from what the King County Medical Examiner would determine was a suicide, the note was taken from his wallet, logged into evidence days later in the Seattle Police Department (SPD) case file, and never made public.





The release of the note by Seattle police follows a recent revelation that the police decided to review internal files regarding the rock star's death in anticipation of media and fan attention to the 20-year-anniversary which occurred at the beginning of the month.

As part of that process, the SPD released dozens of never-before-seen police photos from the scene where Cobain's body was found, and then on Monday, a detective's full report on the re-examination of the suicide file.

In response to public information requests filed by CBS News, the SPD provided hundreds of pages of copies of police reports and evidence recovered at the home of Kurt Cobain when his body was found, including the never-before-released hand-written note.





At the time of his death there was much speculation within the music industry and among fans about the stormy, drug-addled relationship between Cobain and his rock-star wife Courtney Love.

The note may show the author, presumably Cobain, poking sarcastic fun at the marriage; or perhaps it reveals a deep-seated resentment toward Love about drugs, sex, rock and roll... and money. One might even imagine two lovers penning the note together, fully aware of the scrutiny their relationship engendered.





The note, which is not dated, begins as a seemingly direct parody of standard Christian marriage vows, starting with the words, "Do you Kurt Cobain take Courtney Michelle Love to be your lawful shredded wife..."

It goes on to say, "even when she's a b**ch with zits and siphoning all (your) money for doping and whoring..."





Speculation and questions surrounding the circumstances of Cobain's death have endured for 20 years. Conspiracy theorists and some fans still suspect he was murdered and challenge police characterization of another note from the death scene as Cobain's handwritten suicide note.

The handwriting on both appears to a lay person remarkably similar, if the sentiments are not. The wallet note referring to Love as a "b**ch"... siphoning money for doping and whoring is in stark contrast to the presumed suicide note, which calls Love a "goddess... who sweats ambition and empathy."





The note is written on stationery from the Phoenix Hotel, billing itself "an urban resort" on the outskirts of San Francisco's gritty, crime-ridden Tenderloin district. The Phoenix had a reputation then, as now, as being popular with a rock 'n roll hipster clientele, offering "more than a little edge."

The SPD review confirmed the King County Medical Examiner's original determination that Cobain's death was a suicide, concluding that he used a shotgun to shoot himself after taking what would have otherwise been a lethal dose of heroin.

Courtney Love's attorneys did not recall phone calls inquiring about the note.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kurt-cobain-death-scene-note-mocks-vows-to-courtney-love/

Honestly, this note isn't shocking to me at all. Courtney and Kurt had a very well known volatile relationship as both were into drugs and were unstable emotionally. All this note shows is that you have two very psychologically troubled people in their 20s, who while dealing with fame and doing hard drugs, had a predictably very turbulent relationship. I understand why the police didn't release this 20 years ago. Kurt had diehards fans and I think releasing this note 20 years ago to the public would have only made it harder for Courtney (I'm not a fan of hers but she did have a young daughter at the time.) I think it would've only added gas to a fire. I don't even think Unsolved Mysteries should've aired this episode. Kurt was extremely talented but very troubled from youth. Its tragic but he committed suicide.

Honestly, this note isn't shocking to me at all. Courtney and Kurt had a very well known volatile relationship as both were into drugs and were unstable emotionally. All this note shows is that you have two very psychologically troubled people in their 20s, who while dealing with fame and doing hard drugs, had a predictably very turbulent relationship. I understand why the police didn't release this 20 years ago. Kurt had diehards fans and I think releasing this note 20 years ago to the public would have only made it harder for Courtney (I'm not a fan of hers but she did have a young daughter at the time.) I think it would've only added gas to a fire. I don't even think Unsolved Mysteries should've aired this episode. Kurt was extremely talented but very troubled from youth. Its tragic but he committed suicide.

+1. Totally agreed.

Am I the only one who thought that note was hilarious? I'm not sure if Kurt or Courtney wrote it, but its very indicative of the relationship between the two.

I wonder what Tom Grant thinks about it...

People who mess with heroin and coke have a habit of turning up dead.

This. Are we now going to go and blame Kristen Pfaff death on Courtney Love?

One thing that I really dislike from UM is how they suddenly became that almost every famous person that die tragically suddenly became a conspiracy. Like others have said, to pretend it's shocking that Cobain committed suicide is weird imo.

Am I the only one who thought that note was hilarious? I'm not sure if Kurt or Courtney wrote it, but its very indicative of the relationship between the two.

Author: Courtney Love, not Kurt Cobain, wrote note (http://www.aol.com/article/2014/05/03/author-courtney-love-not-kurt-cobain-wrote-note/20879760/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl22%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D472115)

This. Are we now going to go and blame Kristen Pfaff death on Courtney Love?

Plenty of people do.

I have my own theory as to why that is. To sum it in just a few sentences, it's that Courtney was--and is--a loud, boisterous, frequently slovenly, drug-abusing woman and people absolutely love to blame them for being responsible for the deaths of their significant others--even when those significant others engage in ALL of the same behaviors as their female counterparts do.

Look at Nancy Spungen. That woman was horrifically murdered and left in a pool of her own blood, yet there are people who utterly refuse to consider the possibility that Sid Vicious could have in any way been responsible for her death. In fact, some of those same people allude that she "deserved" what she "got", as she was reportedly domineering and overbearing in her relationship with Vicious. Nevermind that Vicious had made some very concerning remarks about Spungeon's stabbing (i.e., "It was meant to happen") and was charged with assault a short time later for attacking someone else. Yet somehow, he is above reproach. Spungen, on the other hand, was a nasty woman who couldn't shut her mouth, and I mean, gee, what did she expect would happen? :rolleyes:

It's an amazingly sexist line of thinking, and I think Courtney Love is treated in precisely the same manner. I'm not a huge fan of her as a human being, but she doesn't deserve anywhere near the amount of guff she gets.

Look at Nancy Spungen. That woman was horrifically murdered and left in a pool of her own blood, yet there are people who utterly refuse to consider the possibility that Sid Vicious could have in any way been responsible for her death. In fact, some of those same people allude that she "deserved" what she "got", as she was reportedly domineering and overbearing in her relationship with Vicious. Nevermind that Vicious had made some very concerning remarks about Spungeon's stabbing (i.e., "It was meant to happen") and was charged with assault a short time later for attacking someone else. Yet somehow, he is above reproach. Spungen, on the other hand, was a nasty woman who couldn't shut her mouth, and I mean, gee, what did she expect would happen? :rolleyes:

I read about Nancy Spungen on Crime Library (http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/celebrity/sid_vicious/index.html) a couple of weeks ago. I believe Sid should have been kept in jail because it's very obvious he killed her. It's not fair that celebrities don't always have to follow the same set of rules as "regular people."

Quoted from the Crime Library story:

Vera Mendelssohn came out of her room when she heard a commotion in the hallway. She saw Vicious surrounded by policemen. According to the Soho Daily News, she said, "His face looked battered." He was distraught and crying, moaning "Baby, baby, baby." When he noticed Mendelssohn, he said to her, "I killed her... I can't live without her."
"I did it because I'm a dirty dog," he allegedly told police.

Are you talking about the suicide note? Unless you are reading things more literally than a computer, this seems crystal clear to me:

"Please keep going Courtney, for Frances.
For her life, which will be so much happier without me."

Would love to hear how that is not about dying in the context of the note.
Keep in mind this was the part of the note that was obviously in different hand writing

Courtney Love Says She Wrote the Note Found in Kurt Cobain's Wallet
by Kyle Anderson
May 5, 2014


Last week, the Seattle Police Department continued its inexplicable habit of releasing more evidence from the crime scene where Kurt Cobain was found dead two decades ago.

This time around, rather than reveal grisly photos, they unveiled a note found in Cobain’s wallet that read, “Do you Kurt Cobain take Courtney Michelle Love to be your lawful shredded wife even when she’s a bitch with zits and siphoning all yr money for doping and whoring.”

The immediate assumption was that Cobain wrote the note, and the idea that Cobain was mocking his marriage vows fueled the fire of the ludicrous conspiracy-theory crowd who are convinced Love had something to do with Cobain’s death.





But as it turns out, the author of that smackdown on Courtney Love was Courtney Love. The Seattle Times reports that Love contacted them via email and told them the note was written by her in 1991.

The story—written by Cobain biographer Charles R. Cross—added that the note was written on stationary from San Francisco’s Phoenix Hotel, and that Love penned it on New Year’s Eve 1991 when Nirvana played a bill with Pearl Jam and the Red Hot Chili Peppers at San Francisco’s Cow Palace.

That note was part of a series the two would often pass back and forth.

http://music-mix.ew.com/2014/05/05/kurt-cobain-wallet-note-courtney-love/

Nancy Spungen, I have great empathy for. She was severely mentally ill. Her parents and family have said since she was a very small child and was diagnosed with Schizophrenia at 15. Plus doing hard drugs at a young age about 15-16 onward almost daily is devastating to any teenagers mental health who's brain isn't even developed yet, let a lone someone who has schizophrenia and other emotional disturbances. I mean she was only 20 years old when she died. I know a lot of people think she was this horrible person who ruined Sid Vicious and while she wasn't a good influence on him considering how damaged she was, Sid choose to do what he did. Sid was already into the sex, drugs and rock and roll lifestyle when she came along and his own mother was wheeling and dealing in drugs. So again, I tend to think that two destructive people together doing very destructive things almost always leads to terrible outcomes.

Did he kill her? He probably did. I don't think it was necessarily an intentional act and he was most likely under the influence of a ton of hard drugs. Don't get me wrong, drugs are never an excuse for inflicting harm on someone else. I just genuinely don't think he had much memory of the event. I don't think either of them were "evil" people, just very sick.

Has it? I know in the segment they mention that they cannot confirm that Kirk wrote the sentences. I always wondered if he was drug induced when he wrote these. He would obviously have been in an emotional state. I'm not sure my handwriting looks normal when I'm emotional.
What about the fact that similar notes where found in Courtney loves home ? Notes that appeared to be someone practicing handwriting

People who mess with heroin and coke have a habit of turning up dead.


Exactly. And nearly every single one of those people had massive addictions/self-destructive behavior long before they ever met Courtney.

Nancy Spungen, I have great empathy for. She was severely mentally ill. Her parents and family have said since she was a very small child and was diagnosed with Schizophrenia at 15. Plus doing hard drugs at a young age about 15-16 onward almost daily is devastating to any teenagers mental health who's brain isn't even developed yet, let a lone someone who has schizophrenia and other emotional disturbances. I mean she was only 20 years old when she died. I know a lot of people think she was this horrible person who ruined Sid Vicious and while she wasn't a good influence on him considering how damaged she was, Sid choose to do what he did. Sid was already into the sex, drugs and rock and roll lifestyle when she came along and his own mother was wheeling and dealing in drugs. So again, I tend to think that two destructive people together doing very destructive things almost always leads to terrible outcomes.

Did he kill her? He probably did. I don't think it was necessarily an intentional act and he was most likely under the influence of a ton of hard drugs. Don't get me wrong, drugs are never an excuse for inflicting harm on someone else. I just genuinely don't think he had much memory of the event. I don't think either of them were "evil" people, just very sick.


I completely agree with you in regards to Nancy, especially after having read her mother's book on her, "...And I Don't Want To Live This Life". However, there is very strong evidence that's been around for decades to theorize that Sid did not kill Nancy. Medical tests carried out on Vicious at the time of his arrest showed the musician would have been incapable of the attack because he was out cold at the time after taking so much of a powerful sedative that it would have killed all but the most hard-bitten drug users.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1127035/Did-Sid-really-kill-Nancy--Explosive-new-evidence-suggests-punk-rocker-innocent.html

I completely agree with you in regards to Nancy, especially after having read her mother's book on her, "...And I Don't Want To Live This Life". However, there is very strong evidence that's been around for decades to theorize that Sid did not kill Nancy. Medical tests carried out on Vicious at the time of his arrest showed the musician would have been incapable of the attack because he was out cold at the time after taking so much of a powerful sedative that it would have killed all but the most hard-bitten drug users.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1127035/Did-Sid-really-kill-Nancy--Explosive-new-evidence-suggests-punk-rocker-innocent.html

Sid might not have killed her. I really have no idea. However, addicts (drug and alcoholics) have been able to survive and do some insane things with levels that astonished police and doctors. Amy Winehouse died of alcohol poisoning with .416 and she was an addict yet there have been cases of drunk drivers or alcohol poisonings (some were even conscious) reaching .5's and .6's. It's rare but my point is addicts have even surprised medical personal with on occasions with not only being able to survive incredible levels but what they are able to do.

Sid might not have killed her. If he did, I don't think it had any true intention of killing her. Drugs are bad and this ending wasn't really surprising given their lifestyle