to do the show? Was it because she just wanted another project or maybe retire? Boy, it sure killed the show when she left. I never watched the Golden Palace because I never knew it ever existed until I read about the show on this board. But her presence in Golden Girls was bigger than I thought because Golden Palace only lasted one season or at least that is what I understand.

It definitely wasn't the same without her on Golden Palace. It made me realize how much she brought to the group and she really grounded that cast with her character.

I don't know why Bea decided to leave, but maybe after so many seasons, she'd had enough and felt she'd given the character and the show all she could.

Some actors and actresses leave shows because they feel there's nothing more they could have done with their characters.

I think the last season the show left the top 30 as far as ratings go. That could be one reason she realized that viewers where starting to leave the show by that point.

70 yrs of age and tired of working so much

Well that makes sense. I didn't realize she was that old.

She said she felt it wasn't as magical/hilarious as it was- and she was right on that point. The jokes became too predictable, and some of them weren't even LOL funny.

Bea Arthur is very underrated and without Bea, IMHO Golden Girls would not have worked. (Sort of like the Beatles reunited the otherday with only Paul and Ringo and not John and George). Bea was the John Lennon of the show (IMHO).

BTW-I have a question, will ask in a new thread.

Season 6 definitely the worse of the 7 seasons. The jokes became formulaic and the characters kinda stalled a bit. And you could see it in the ratings. Bea made the decision to quite right after season 6 ended. Season 7 had not even started when her decision to leave was made. I think the show picked back up a bit in season 7, and the show probably had a little more gas in the tank. But Bea chose to leave, and I can respect that.

I am glad when they ended when they did. So many shows drive themselves into the ground with the terrible jokes and uninteresting plotlines. I'm glad that The Golden Girls didn't do that and left things on a happy note. Thank you Bea Arthur for leaving with us with nothing but happy memories of the Golden Girls. :)

Her performance in season 7 (final) wasn't her best compared to earlier seasons.So going through the motion.....

The women of that time were so full of life.Without all that make-up the actresses put nowadays, without all those petite profile and those "designer" dresses; they still could make you want to be them! I just admire and love those ladies. I wish I had all that fashion sense, to be so simple and yet so glamorous. Their cool plus size clothes (http://casual-plus.com) are lovely.

Bea Arthur did that exact same thing with "Maude". She felt the show had gone as far as it could and she quit both shows while they were ahead.

.....and Betty White was Ringo, someone who would not have been missed and replaced with a hundred other people better than her.

.....and Betty White was Ringo, someone who would not have been missed and replaced with a hundred other people better than her.

Betty would have been missed for sure. She was iconic as Rose. Me thinks that "Hateration" is kicking in.

Betty would have been missed for sure. She was iconic as Rose. Me thinks that "Hateration" is kicking in.

Yup....guilty. Can't stand her, and never have.....

Dorothy, Sophia and Blanche.....

SHUT UP ROSE!!!!

Yup....guilty. Can't stand her, and never have.....

Dorothy, Sophia and Blanche.....

SHUT UP ROSE!!!!


Loves me summa that America's sweethart.

Loves me summa that America's sweethart.


Agreed! I love Betty too. I think Rose and Sophia were the best characters in that show. They could have re casted Dorothy and Blanche , not that there was anything wrong with Bea or Rue, they were fine for the show. But IMO Rose and Sophia made the show! ;)

Agreed! I love Betty too. I think Rose and Sophia were the best characters in that show. They could have re casted Dorothy and Blanche , not that there was anything wrong with Bea or Rue, they were fine for the show. But IMO Rose and Sophia made the show! ;)

The late Elaine Stritch could have done the Dorothy role. She would have been good for it. Bea Arthur was at the helm after Elaine made an error during the reading at audition. Bea and Rue were fabulous in their respective roles. I just love Betty as she is iconic.

I liked the Golden Girls. I didn't mind The Golden Palace. I thought that was funny too. I mean again, I think networks give the ax to shows way too fast. I mean could the Golden Palace surpass The Golden Girls? Probably not. But give the show a chance. I mean you still had Rose, Blanche and Sophia. I thought adding Cheetch Marin and Don Cheadle were good additions. Only problem is that maybe the show would last another season or two because wasn't Estelle Getty's health failing around 1994?

I loved The Golden Palace. It had me laughing, constantly. If a show can do that to me, it gets an "A" in my book.

It was never the same without her!


http://twinpine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/transparent_gif.gif (http://www.howtosavesnapchat.com)

Season 6 definitely the worse of the 7 seasons. The jokes became formulaic and the characters kinda stalled a bit. And you could see it in the ratings. Bea made the decision to quite right after season 6 ended. Season 7 had not even started when her decision to leave was made. I think the show picked back up a bit in season 7, and the show probably had a little more gas in the tank. But Bea chose to leave, and I can respect that.

Very much agree. The last season rebounded a bit, and if memory serves it also was moved out of the traditional 9 p.m. Saturday timeslot into the 8 p.m. slot, which I don't believe helped ratings.
Seven seasons was a good run. I don't think an eighth would have been that good. There is only so much you can get out of any show.

Oh, sorry, but I couldn't disagree with you more, Yong. I adore Betty White, and that was just a cheap shot on your part.

It was never the same without her!


http://twinpine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/transparent_gif.gif (http://www.howtosavesnapchat.com)

You can't take the central character out of a group and expect it to work. Bea Arthur was the glue and the Golden Palace just didn't have what it takes to sustain an ongoing show.

I agree with the board that Season 7 was better than Season 6 but I didn't much care for Dorothy during the last season. For some bizarre reason, the writers sort of weakened the character during that last year. I liked the vital, acerbic Dorothy from the early seasons that would bite anyone's head off that got in her way...but Season 7 Dorothy was wimpy and unlikable in most episodes...although there were a few shows where the Dorothy of old showed up. I'm surprised Bea didn't protest.

I respect her decision to leave when she did. Seven seasons is a long run. The best years were definitely behind the series and I suspect she wanted to do something else while she still had the strength and stamina to continue a career.

Again, The Golden Palace could have worked. I mean it was a different show than the Golden Girls but Cheech Marin and Don Cheadle are nothing to sneeze at. There funny.

I will say even though it was funny, I didnt like how Dorothy and Stan got together and were going to get married. I mean Dorothy couldnt stand Stan and they were going to get married? I loved when Dorothy used to give Stan potshots.

The late Elaine Stritch could have done the Dorothy role. She would have been good for it. Bea Arthur was at the helm after Elaine made an error during the reading at audition. Bea and Rue were fabulous in their respective roles. I just love Betty as she is iconic.It would have been a differant show if Elaine Stritch was in it.

Don't remember too much about Elaine Stritch, except seeing clips of her one woman show. She certainly was, as they say...a "pistol" :lol: :eek:

The bottom line for me is that we got what we were "intended" to get. Things unfolded exactly how they should have....the cast of Golden Girls was awesome! Also flawless casting to me, was the cast of Frasier. I love each and every actor on that show. :wave:

I think the last season the show left the top 30 as far as ratings go.

Yes, the show dropped to #31 in the Nielsens ratings in its last season, but for the first six seasons, it was consistently in the top ten: Season 1 (#8), Season 2 (#5), Season 3 (#4), Season 4 (#6), Season 5 (#6), Season 6 (#10). Thus, the major drop in Season 7 is puzzling, though I read that they shifted the Girls to a different night and time slot, which may account for the loss of viewers. Still, Bea couldn't have foreseen the massive drop, since it happened during the seventh season, which she had determined before filming that it was her last. Up until she made her decision, the show was still in the top ten.

That could be one reason she realized that viewers where starting to leave the show by that point.

Bea wanted to leave as early as Season 5, when the show was still riding high. They had to coax her to remain for an additional two seasons, but after that, she'd had enough and couldn't be convinced to stay otherwise. Methinks that she just got bored. As someone else pointed out, she did the same thing with Maude, after 6 seasons.

She went out in style.

the major drop in Season 7 is puzzling, though I read that they shifted the Girls to a different night and time slot

Only half of that is true. The show NEVER went to a different night, it was a Saturday night staple for its entire run. What did happen was that it moved an hour earlier to 8:00 for season 7. I still remember the commercial advertising that with its cowboy song and animation..."Movin' movin' movin', Golden Girls are movin' to 8:00 on Saturday night! Empty Nest is movin', it's 9:00 we're usin', " (and then I don't recall the last line.

So the move out of its 6-year 9:00 time slot was the major factor in ratings dropping.

to do the show? Was it because she just wanted another project or maybe retire? Boy, it sure killed the show when she left. I never watched the Golden Palace because I never knew it ever existed until I read about the show on this board. But her presence in Golden Girls was bigger than I thought because Golden Palace only lasted one season or at least that is what I understand.

Money and she wanted more say in the writing once Terry Hughes left. She didn't trust the new "kids" as she put it and wanted more creative control in the series. Therefore, she surely was not going to go on with Golden Palace. It was discussed as a possibility of having Lee Grant to replace her in the role of Dorothy for Golden Palace, and not marry her off. Almost happened, never did. Plus, Estelle Getty felt it would be uncomfortable to have to try and re-create the same chemistry with a new actress.

Additionally, the idea of a fifth and new Golden Girl was spoken about to run the desk. However, the writers felt it would be too overwhelming to have 5 women. Possibility of Lucille Ball for this role was talked about but they thought it would be better to have a man in the role to compliment the women in the work world, and to show that women can work at an older age as well. Not only that, Lucille Ball did not want to be in an ensemble role which is why she turned down the role that was taken in an earlier episodes of Golden Girl by Debbie Reynolds. Janet DuBois was also considered.

Money and she wanted more say in the writing once Terry Hughes left. She didn't trust the new "kids" as she put it and wanted more creative control in the series. Therefore, she surely was not going to go on with Golden Palace. It was discussed as a possibility of having Lee Grant to replace her in the role of Dorothy for Golden Palace, and not marry her off. Almost happened, never did. Plus, Estelle Getty felt it would be uncomfortable to have to try and re-create the same chemistry with a new actress.

Additionally, the idea of a fifth and new Golden Girl was spoken about to run the desk. However, the writers felt it would be too overwhelming to have 5 women. Possibility of Lucille Ball for this role was talked about but they thought it would be better to have a man in the role to compliment the women in the work world, and to show that women can work at an older age as well. Not only that, Lucille Ball did not want to be in an ensemble role which is why she turned down the role that was taken in an earlier episodes of Golden Girl by Debbie Reynolds. Janet DuBois was also considered.

At what point was Lucille Ball considered? It couldn't have been real late in the series because she died in 1989.

At what point was Lucille Ball considered? It couldn't have been real late in the series because she died in 1989.

Sorry, not Lucille Ball. I meant Audrey Meadows.
Writers wanted a red-head and they were impressed by her recent work on Too Close for Comfort. (Not to diminish her work on The Honeymooners).

Yup....guilty. Can't stand her, and never have.....

Dorothy, Sophia and Blanche.....

SHUT UP ROSE!!!!
Agreed...... I can't stand Rose either. She is too dumb to live. It wasn't even loveable naivety like Edith Bunker or Chrissy Snow. I liked Edith and Chrissy, but Rose..... she was mind numbingly dumb and annoying. I never would have been able to live with that pea brain.

Rose was not dumb, she was completely naïve (Betty explains this in interviews). At least, this is how Rose began; unfortunately, in the latter seasons, yes, the writers did dumb her down.

Rose was not dumb, she was completely naïve (Betty explains this in interviews). At least, this is how Rose began; unfortunately, in the latter seasons, yes, the writers did dumb her down.
Naïve is Edith Bunker or Chrissy Snow. They were loveably naïve and still had common sense. Rose had no common sense. She was excuciatingly dumb and annoying as hell.

Naïve is Edith Bunker or Chrissy Snow. They were loveably naïve and still had common sense. Rose had no common sense. She was excuciatingly dumb and annoying as hell.

She got more "dumb" later on, but I never found her annoying. Like she states in interviews, she started out totally naïve, and with some common sense.

To those of you "Rose haters", let's not forget that much negative could be said about all 4 of the Golden Girls. :(

Dorothy was often smug and arrogant because she was intellectually superior to the other three. She threatened to put her mother in a nursing home when she would get annoyed with her.

Blanche was so obsessed with sex that it often got, well...icky.
She also made no bones about telling the other 3 that she was prettier than them. Who does that?

And Sophia, while having a seemingly stellar memory about most things, used her old stroke as an excuse to blurt out any and every insult she felt people had coming to them. :rolleyes:

At the end of the day....they were all fictional characters, and the actresses were not responsible for what their lines were.

Personally.....I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Betty White. The fact that Rose could be a colossal airhead didn't bother me, in the context of a sit com. Unless there's something "kooky" that stands out with sit com characters, they don't make much of an impression, now do they? :doh:

To those of you "Rose haters", let's not forget that much negative could be said about all 4 of the Golden Girls. :(

Dorothy was often smug and arrogant because she was intellectually superior to the other three. She threatened to put her mother in a nursing home when she would get annoyed with her.

Blanche was so obsessed with sex that it often got, well...icky.
She also made no bones about telling the other 3 that she was prettier than them. Who does that?

And Sophia, while having a seemingly stellar memory about most things, used her old stroke as an excuse to blurt out any and every insult she felt people had coming to them. :rolleyes:

At the end of the day....they were all fictional characters, and the actresses were not responsible for what their lines were.

Personally.....I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Betty White. The fact that Rose could be a colossal airhead didn't bother me, in the context of a sit com. Unless there's something "kooky" that stands out with sit com characters, they don't make much of an impression, now do they? :doh:


Oh, and let's not forget the Dorothy forever nursed her wounds and held onto her grudges (even more than Sophia). Just once I'd have liked one of the others (such as Sophia) to have told Dorothy if her marriage to Stan was so bad from Day One as she constantly claimed, she should work towards being RELIEVED it was finally over even if Stan ended it for his own selfish reasons.

Speaking for myself, I think they simply should have ended the show when Miss Arthur said enough.

"I think they simply should have ended the show when Miss Arthur said enough."

Ok, now I'm confused. :confused: I think they DID end the show when Bea didn't want to do it any more, right? She was on it all 7 seasons, then the show ended.... :( Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post?

BTW: I so agree with you that Dorothy had an obnoxious love/hate relationship with Stanley. In some episodes, she seemed to absolutely hate his guts, then next thing you knew, she was almost marrying him again. :rolleyes:

Rose was not dumb, she was completely naïve (Betty explains this in interviews). At least, this is how Rose began; unfortunately, in the latter seasons, yes, the writers did dumb her down.

No, even from the start Rose was an airhead, not just naive. Look at the pilot episode.


Dorothy: Anyway, we were laughing and giggling, and I completely forgot that I was older. You know, I just felt like one of the girls. So we had a wonderful time. And then I got into my car and caught a glimpse of myself and I almost had a heart attack. This old woman was in the mirror. I didn't even recognize her.
Rose: Who was it?

...

Rose: Charlie and I waited two whole years before he and I got married.
Dorothy: I got married before my father finished the sentence.
Rose: You married your father?


That's not naivete; it's stupidty.

Money and she wanted more say in the writing once Terry Hughes left. She didn't trust the new "kids" as she put it and wanted more creative control in the series. Therefore, she surely was not going to go on with Golden Palace.

Bea appeared in two episodes of Golden Palace. Well, it was a two-parter, but they aired on separate nights, a week from each other.

Rose was good in spurts. I thought she was funny sometimes but other times it was annoying. I dont think people dislike her because of some of the comments she made. I think, part of it, for me, anyway, was her disposition. Wasnt it Dorothy who called her Mrs. Rodgers? That would aggravate me. The fact she's always happy.

No, even from the start Rose was an airhead, not just naive. Look at the pilot episode.


Dorothy: Anyway, we were laughing and giggling, and I completely forgot that I was older. You know, I just felt like one of the girls. So we had a wonderful time. And then I got into my car and caught a glimpse of myself and I almost had a heart attack. This old woman was in the mirror. I didn't even recognize her.
Rose: Who was it?

...

Rose: Charlie and I waited two whole years before he and I got married.
Dorothy: I got married before my father finished the sentence.
Rose: You married your father?


That's not naivete; it's stupidty.

Both of those instances can be debated. After all, like Betty says, Rose took everything literally, at face value. She has been extremely naïve her whole life.

Later in the series, unfortunately, they played her up as being "dumb". That, and sacrificing character truth for easy jokes is why I don't own seasons 5-7 on DVD; I will watch them on TV, I just don't care to own them for my own personal GG "canon".

Good Lord, "mets82" :eek:

There's a lot more annoying personality traits than cheerfulness that I could list. Personally, I'd rather live with a cheerful person than a consistently crabby one. Actually...I did live with a consistently crabby person...divorced him. :lol:

[B]Dorothy: Anyway, we were laughing and giggling, and I completely forgot that I was older. You know, I just felt like one of the girls. So we had a wonderful time. And then I got into my car and caught a glimpse of myself and I almost had a heart attack. This old woman was in the mirror. I didn't even recognize her.


I know what Dorothy felt. I am in situations where I feel just like that.

Awww Coffecup. :love: Join the club my dear....I think most of us have had those days........ :( I know I have ohno:

Good Lord, "mets82" :eek:

There's a lot more annoying personality traits than cheerfulness that I could list. Personally, I'd rather live with a cheerful person than a consistently crabby one. Actually...I did live with a consistently crabby person...divorced him. :lol:


Well, I'm glad you got rid of him. :)

Like I mentioned I didnt mind Rose in spurts. But if your having a bad day or a bad week, Rose would kind of be the last person I'd talk too. And to me, sometimes when you are unhappy for whatever reason, seeing somebody happy annoys you. At least it does with me.

I also think it was because Bea Arthur hated Betty White.

I kid you not...Bea called Betty many bad names as the show progressed.

In the context of this thread, I find it interesting that in all the Golden Girls DVD seasons shown for sale at the top of the page, Dorothy is the only one not smiling in any of them, at least not enough to be showing her teeth like the others. She has a somewhat disdainful look in most of them. I guess that's what comes from being the "crabby" character on the show.

You're probably even being too generous, from everything I've heard. While not wanting to offend our hard-core Bea fans, to me it seems quite obvious why she would come to hate Betty White. They were polar opposites. Bea Arthur was a heavy smoker who was plagued by a deep voice, masculine physique, and was the butt of jokes as a result. In contrast, Betty White was inherently feminine even in her sixties, cheerful and happy, even though she had recently lost the love of her life.

If I were chronically unhappy, I guess people like Betty White would annoy me too. :(