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Laverne & Shirley (http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=304742) was an American television situation comedy that ran on ABC from 1976 to 1983. It starred Penny Marshall as Laverne De Fazio and Cindy Williams as Shirley Feeney, roommates who, as the series began, worked in a Milwaukee brewery. The show was a spin-off from Happy Days, as the two lead characters were originally introduced on that show as acquaintances of Fonzie. Set in roughly the same time period as Happy Days, Laverne & Shirley started in approximately 1959, and when the series ended, it was 1967.

They never should have moved the show to California. It went from a great sitcom to a mediocre one. When Shirley left, it went from a mediocre sitcom to a bad one. Such a sad ending for a once great show.

They never should have moved the show to California. It went from a great sitcom to a mediocre one. When Shirley left, it went from a mediocre sitcom to a bad one. Such a sad ending for a once great show.


Couldn't have said it better.

Agreed!

There's a misspelling in the poll. It's Carmine "The Big Ragoo" Ragusa, not "Ragu." Er... ah... it was only on the back of his jacket as "Ragoo" for years!!

There's a misspelling in the poll. It's Carmine "The Big Ragoo" Ragusa, not "Ragu." Er... ah... it was only on the back of his jacket as "Ragoo" for years!!
It should have stayed in Milwaulkee.

They never should have moved the show to California. It went from a great sitcom to a mediocre one. When Shirley left, it went from a mediocre sitcom to a bad one. Such a sad ending for a once great show.

That's it in a nutshell.

They never should have moved the show to California. It went from a great sitcom to a mediocre one. When Shirley left, it went from a mediocre sitcom to a bad one. Such a sad ending for a once great show.

Well put.

I didn't hate the move to California, but it was a sign of the end. Season 6 should have been the last. I wish they had spent the last season creating story lines that would have given the fans closure and allowed all of the performers to leave on a high note.

When the show moved to california and could no longer do crossover episodes with Happy days

when they moved to Calif. and half the town moved with them

I though the Big Ragoo was hot

Moving to California was OK. Milwaukee eps were better, but the show was still funny. The whole town moving was silly , but I liked the cast, so glad they did! I didn't like after Shirley left.

Carmine (the big Ragoo) Raguso was hot!

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQIfaG7Of3mG1Bwy-JazyrrxXKRjbHWxzWANQTlIt1B8e6Tr41-yQ

I liked how he called Shirley 'Angel face"!

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTXHO-7nlYmvT6af36kf2GKa5kU_d-Q2SmEtK5Y-imM0Q0wybhIEg

I read somewhere, that Season 5 was originally supposed to be the end. Frank moves back to New York, and Carmine gets a part in a Broadway play (later used as the end of Season 8) and also moves to New York. When the girls get fired from Shotz they follow Frank & Carmine. A last minute change by the network asked for more seasons changing the location to CA. Hence the name of the first episode of season 6 'Note Quite, New York'

Moving to California was OK. Milwaukee eps were better, but the show was still funny. The whole town moving was silly , but I liked the cast, so glad they did! I didn't like after Shirley left.

Carmine (the big Ragoo) Raguso was hot!

AGREE!!!!

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQIfaG7Of3mG1Bwy-JazyrrxXKRjbHWxzWANQTlIt1B8e6Tr41-yQ

I liked how he called Shirley 'Angel face"!

ME TOO!!

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTXHO-7nlYmvT6af36kf2GKa5kU_d-Q2SmEtK5Y-imM0Q0wybhIEg

When Shirley left, most specifically, when she married an unknown person, rather than Carmine. They should have had her marry Carmine.

Shirley and Carmine were meant to be.

Shirley and Carmine were meant to be.

YES!!!! Shirley, who was my favorite, although I loved Laverne too, was actually the shallow one, looking back now on the old episodes. Laverne was written as sort of the 'shallow' roommate, always chasing men, and just out for a good time. She was in the here and now. Shirley was painted as the prim and proper type, the one who always did good. The one who always was in search of an everlasting 'love'. Laverne, looking back, was the deeper person of the two. She saw into peoples' hearts. Shirley was always looking for that one 'type' of man...namely, a doctor. She was always wanting to find a 'better class' of man, yet, every time she thought she found a higher society man, they were usually the sleaziest. She had her true love right under her nose the whole time...Carmine. Carmine was ALWAYS there for her. I think Shirley, deep down, knew this, and did love Carmine. However, she was raised with the deep sense of finding someone 'better'. To Shirley's mother, rich and 'classy' men were 'better'. Shirley fought that all her life. In the end, she got what she 'wanted'. She let a good man get away. Having said all this, Shirley is still my favorite, though I LOVE LOVE LOVE Laverne too.

Laverne And Shirley boned the fish when they moved to California. The Milwaukee years of the show (1-5) are the best

Laverne And Shirley boned the fish when they moved to California. The Milwaukee years of the show (1-5) are the best
ITA. When they moved to California, it just wasn't the same.

ITA. When they moved to California, it just wasn't the same.


The California years are not bad, they just aren't good as the Milwaukee years. What really ruined the show for me was when Cindy Williams and Michael McKean bailed and left the show. That's when I seriously quit watching it

When Shirley left, most specifically, when she married an unknown person, rather than Carmine. They should have had her marry Carmine.


That would have been great if they got married! ;)


http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f174/shotzgallery/Other/shirleycarmine.jpg

Moving to California was a mistake. The idea wasn't in and of itself bad, it was the execution of the idea. I think adding the stuntman and Rhonda characters did nothing to help the show. AND, I think Big Rosie should have moved with them. Why she wasn't featured more was a shame.

when they moved to Calif. and half the town moved with them

Because that happens all the time in real life.

Once they left Milwaukee, it was never the same.

The working class midwestern town suited the characters. Once they moved to California, they were just two dizzy girls who were starstruck.

It just seems like a rite-of-passage for any TV show that lasts more than about four seasons to Jump The Shark. Usually, the characters just change before half a decade is over . It is essentially the right amount of time for things to get different just like in real life.
People get older, they move , they think differently about their friends etc.
Often for TV characters they change too much and are not the individuals who everyone liked or loved at the beginning

I probably might get razzed for this viewpoint, but I think there were really four stages of when it jumped the shark, in this order...

1. Timeslot Musical Chairs in Season 5
2. Move to California after Season 5
3. Betty Garrett (Edna) leaving at the end of Season 6
4. Cindy Williams (Shirley) leaving early in Season 8

Granted, I don't think it should have gone to Stage 4 and wiser minds should have let Season 7 be the final season.

I probably might get razzed for this viewpoint, but I think there were really four stages of when it jumped the shark, in this order...

1. Timeslot Musical Chairs in Season 5
2. Move to California after Season 5
3. Betty Garrett (Edna) leaving at the end of Season 6
4. Cindy Williams (Shirley) leaving early in Season 8

Granted, I don't think it should have gone to Stage 4 and wiser minds should have let Season 7 be the final season.

I'm sure that this has been asked before, but why wasn't the name of the show simply changed to Laverne when Cindy Williams left? It was awfully insulting to the audience's intelligence to try to pass things off as the same when there's a gigantic elephant in the room (namely, why the hell is it still called Laverne and Shirley (https://web.archive.org/web/20140402224659/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3053535-laverne-shirley/?view=getnewpost) when Shirley had left the building).

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I agree that it was strange. I vaguely remember Penny Marshall saying she wanted to rename the show so it didn’t seem like they were trying to put one over on the audience, but ABC insisted on keeping the title as is.

It reminds me a little of when “Archie’s Place” was announced as the successor to “All in the Family” in the spring of 1979. And then during the summer - prior to the premiere - the show was renamed “Archie Bunker’s Place” because CBS was worried that we stupid viewers wouldn’t be able to make the connection without “Bunker” in the title. Same thing with “Laverne” - “Oh, that must not be related to ‘Laverne & Shirley’ at all! Even though it has the same time slot and cast members!”

Or when the ABC promos for the initial episodes of “Three’s a Crowd” used the “Three’s Company” instrumental theme, to help us morons could figure out that the shows were related.

It is a bit surprising to hear this. I stopped watching Laverne and Shirley before these major changes were made. I stopped watching a lot of TV shows before they did things like cut out a major character or put a new major character in or have certain characters make major changes such as move elsewhere or marry etc. I might have heard a bit about changes to be made with Laverne and Shirley at the time but I cannot recall now that I specifically was aware that the show would no longer have Shirley even though the original title will stay the same . I do recall reading that both Cindy Williams and Penny Marshall did not like doing the series anymore, especially Penny Marshall. So it is a bit surprising to hear now that Shirley was the one who was written out.

Definitely the move to California. Laverne and Shirley were too old by then to be so silly and starstruck, and especially to act like they were in love with the Beatles. They were of the Dion and Elvis era, by the time the Beatles exploded onto the scene most women Laverne and Shirley's age had moved on from that sort of thing and were married with kids.

It might not have worked any better to keep them in Milwaukee and have Shirley marry Carmine and Laverne marry some Italian American truck driver type, but it couldn't have been any worse. Rhonda and Sonny added nothing to the show and Lenny and Squiggy in LA was just an awkward, fish out of water scenario.

Like others here have stated, I think Shirley and Carmine belonged together. I used to hate the Milwaukee episodes where one or both of them were dating someone else, it felt so sad, like you wanted to shake them and yell, "What are you doing?? Don't you see that "the One" is right here under your nose?!" Eddie Mekka and Cindy Williams had great chemistry, and they would have had cute, albeit short, kids.

Logo has now been airing the Season 8 episodes and I wonder if Penny Marshall could've successfully carried a show on her own? I think that she kind of needed Cindy Williams as a straight-woman/second banana (Laverne was more rough around the edges and dour while Shirley was more pesky and prissy) to her Laverne.

Definitely the move to California. Laverne and Shirley were too old by then to be so silly and starstruck, and especially to act like they were in love with the Beatles. They were of the Dion and Elvis era, by the time the Beatles exploded onto the scene most women Laverne and Shirley's age had moved on from that sort of thing and were married with kids.

It might not have worked any better to keep them in Milwaukee and have Shirley marry Carmine and Laverne marry some Italian American truck driver type, but it couldn't have been any worse. Rhonda and Sonny added nothing to the show and Lenny and Squiggy in LA was just an awkward, fish out of water scenario.

Like others here have stated, I think Shirley and Carmine belonged together. I used to hate the Milwaukee episodes where one or both of them were dating someone else, it felt so sad, like you wanted to shake them and yell, "What are you doing?? Don't you see that "the One" is right here under your nose?!" Eddie Mekka and Cindy Williams had great chemistry, and they would have had cute, albeit short, kids.

Keep in mind also that in real life, Penny Marshall was zeroing in on her 40s around the time they moved L&S to California. These were not young twenty-something women anymore.

Definitely the move to California. Laverne and Shirley were too old by then to be so silly and starstruck, and especially to act like they were in love with the Beatles. They were of the Dion and Elvis era, by the time the Beatles exploded onto the scene most women Laverne and Shirley's age had moved on from that sort of thing and were married with kids.




Yes and yet, TV is filled with depictions of "older women" being starstruck.
I can recall a few Lucille Ball episodes in which she was star struck at some celebrity.
Also, I know I am referring to a cartoon, but Betty Rubble and Wilma Flintstone were starstruck even though they were grown married women, and there was an episode in which they went to a TV studio and talked about how wonderful it would be to work at a place with so many celebrities. And I recall a skit on The Donny and Marie show in which Anne Meara was a woman no younger than about 40 who came upon Donny and Marie Osmond on the street and told them that she wanted them to bite a broomstick she happened to have with her so she can have their teeth marks on it as a souvenir.
I think there was one episode in which Lucille Ball was starstruck at Chuck Conners and and another episode she was starstruck at Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton.

The California years are not bad, they just aren't good as the Milwaukee years. What really ruined the show for me was when Cindy Williams and Michael McKean bailed and left the show. That's when I seriously quit watching it

Shirley's exit was a major betrayal of her character. Think about it this way, Shirley left Laverne, her best friend since childhood, abruptly and without warning. She didn't even say goodbye in person. Laverne returns to find Shirley gone; her family album and Boo Boo Kitty are also gone, so Laverne knows Shirley is REALLY gone.

It never boned.

I though the Big Ragoo was hot

Yep!!!! I longed for he and Shirley to marry.