Alice Boned the Fish When... [Archive] - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

TMC

02-26-2014, 08:10 PM

https://web.archive.org/web/20070225141752/http://jumptheshark.com/

Other Thoughts:

About the second time I heard "Mel, kiss my grits". Also when Linda Lavin started her singing career. awful.
When I realized that somehow, someway, Flo was considered the hot one.
Linda Lavin's singing was horrendous. add tap- dancing Vera, promiscuous Flo, and Martha Raye as Mel's mom. How did this manage to stay on for what seemed like an eternity? who decided Linda Lavin could sing--was it the guy who used to manage the Partridge Family, who was always at the diner? and would any real man actually want to have sex with nasty old Flo? Even a fifth of Jack Daniels and 2 bags couldn't help that broad.
The only humor value it had was Flo's banter, and even that became stale by the time she left. The replacement for Flo was completely unmemorable.
How in the world was Flo the sexy one? I still haven't figured that one out. Surely they could have gotten someone to play one of the waitresses who had some looks. VERA? God, I wanted to puke when they started showing her with a man. What man would stoop that low? She looked like a crack-head. Alice, that no-talent whore? The only sexy one was Mel and that Phone guy Henry.
Stop slagging Linda Lavin's singing. Her performance carries much more passion than 227, Gimme a Break, Frazier or any other songs delivered by the star.
Well kiss MAH grits!!!
All the times that Henry the telephone repairman would come in and say, "Hey Mel, How's the chili?" Every episode.
Henry the phone man was so sexy.
when i realized that linda lavin could leave the show, then have it renamed "mel's diner" with the rest of the starring cast (mel, flo, vera, etc.) and be better television.
In the last episode, I'm surprised they didn't also have Tommy stay in Phoenix and join the Suns.
Robert Goulet.......say no more.
Remember that episode when Alice and those other skanks were looking for crap to sell and they took Mel's trophy, which he was entrusted with by his Navy buddies? What a dumb-ass show this one was. I also hated how Vera was such a cry-baby.
This show never, ever recovered from Flo's departure. When her spinoff tanked, they should have let her come back.
When Flo left Mel's Diner and that OTHER woman came.
The quality of this show did not drop immediately after the departure of the wonderful Flo. There were some hilarious scripts with Diane Ladd and with Celia Weston as well. But after Alice got a perm and Tommy started college in the 7th season, they lost me. The early years of this show are pure sitcom genius though.
jolene enters the picture. yikes.
Perhaps TV's most painful moment came when Linda Lavin and Martha Raye sang "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy." Yi!!
Tommie's aging was the most horrible thing I have ever saw.
alice never jumped. in my opinion it is one of the top 4 or 5 ever, one thing though, why was flo considered the good looking one, man she looks like my old wrinkled grandmother and her friends in the retirement home, jolene was a hot chick i am surprised mel didn't ever try anything with her, especially since his fat butt is supposed to be a mac daddy of some sort, and lay off tommy, the kid was 6-1, not 7 foot, all they ever say is how tall he is and stuff, man they must have been short people, go alice.
The episode where Vera downs some pills for some reason and Alice and the other waitress had to keep her up all night so she wouldn't go into a coma. Where the hell were the police or the paramedics? Another show that comes to mind is one that seems to be in lots of posts. The one with Alice and Martha Raye singing "Do you think I'm Sexy" Yikes! After the Vera episode, old Fonzie was headin for the ramp on his water skies, after the Martha Raye slice of heaven, Fonzie was in mid-air headin over the shark wearin his leather jacket. By the way, I wasn't much of a fan of Flo, and I must agree, she certainly wasn't hot. The last girl they hired was much more appealing.
Come on folks! Does anyone remember when Vera thought Special Guest Star George Burns was God? That Shark Jumping put Evel Knievel to shame. And I also agree with the people who complained about Polly Holliday being the hot babe on the show.
This show never jumped it was light hearted and a masterpiece all the way, I will always look up to all of them especially Linda Lavin as Alice.
This show went into a downward spiral when Polly Holliday left. She was the only character with any spunk in her at all. And I don't think the audience was supposed to think she was a babe ...that's part of why it was funny, sort of like Rue McClanahan's Blanche on "Golden Girls." I agree with the person who said Linda Lavin could have left and it would have been better. She had no sense of comic timing whatsoever. And I won't even start on her singing...
Possible the worst feature film-to-sitcom in history. Why? The film wasn't a comedy! This could've been a pretty decent one-hour drama (with a completely different cast, of course). Whatever laughs were to be found in this show began and ended with Mel. Let's count the terrible characters: Alice, Flo, Vera, Billy, Mel's mom, the phone guy, every "star" that just happened to drop into Mel's two-bit diner ..... where does it end? It's amazing this show lasted so long.
Well "kiss my grits". This show lost my interest after Flo left. She and Mel were the best part of that show. Alice was such a goodie 2 shoes .Vera needed a good high hard one. Tommy was a total dick. When they brought in Martha Raye that was a good reason to change the channel. Henry the phone guy was o.k., he was only a bit part. If anyone watched after 1979 they must have had no life at all. Alice died with disco. If you don't believe me, watch the re-runs on TNN.
Wasn't Tommy played by a young Kevin Bacon who acted under a different name to protect himself?
Linda Lavin always trying to be a lounge singer. She had a catchy signing voice in the theme song, "There's a New Girl in Town", but her smoky lounge act episodes were terrible. Also, what happened to Tommy his puberty growth spurt qualifies as a JTS, but I wouldn't be surprised if he turned into a fruitcake, he was borderline.
I can not believe that I ever watched this show! How horribly awful. I would have voted the show jumped when flo left, but now that I think about it when Tommy started growing, that was the true end to the show.
when Alice started singin "Fa,Fa,Fa,Fa,Faaaa" instead of "Ba,Ba,Ba,Ba,Baaaa" at the end of the theme as Tommy washed her (Blech!) feet.
When the opening changed from the first season to the second. First ,before explaining why it got worse let me say here and now that at least most or a lot of you have acknowledged Lavin's singing talent. As for the show being much better had she left I don't think so. Her trouble wasn't that she couldn't act but that she looked like 1/3 of all women in real life pretty but only in a plain way and her talking voice was less than feminine. But sometimes women like this are the best. Now to when it jumped. Definitely, when the first season opening changed as the shots of her on the highway were almost all dropped. And the shot of her dunking her feet in the water was an asset to the program .I mean it .She looked adorable and vulnerable that way with her tootsies dunking in the water. I would've loved to have been Tommy in that scene and I swear to God I would've kissed her feet and loved it!
I remember I quit watching after Flo left.. What a bummer.
The absolute worst episode, when they really jumped the hell out of that shark, was when Alice, Flo, Vera and I think Mel each decided to give up something better themselves. Flo decided to abstain from sex, Mel and Alice gave up something, I forget, and Vera GAVE UP SMOKING!!! Since when in the history of the show did Vera smoke??? They showed her chain smoking, hiding in the back alley to get a smoke, sneaking cigarettes, etc., like she couldn't quit. The writers just totally disregarded the history they created for that character and phoned that one in.
Henry the telephone man could carry a tune better than that yenta.
Okay: to everyone who seems bewildered that Flo was considered "hot": she wasn't supposed to be HOT in a Charlie's Angels kind of way, she was "hot" as in the funniest-sexiest-broad at the bowling alley kind of way!! Polly Holliday wasn't a sex symbol and wasn't supposed to be, so where is this shock and confusion coming from? She was vamping truckers and repairmen, not Julio Iglesias or John Forsythe!! ANYWAY--when Flo left and instead of replacing the 3rd waitress with a different entertaining character they decided to just make Flo "substitutes," the show began to look sorry and uncreative. And then Linda had to start singing when she got that HUGE ego.....it wasn't the same from then on.
Flo was awesome! KISS MY GRITS!
The show jumped the shark the minute Vera spilled the whole box of straws in the opening credits. Pick up, Dingy!
Alice definitely jumped the shark when they made an episode featuring Jay Leno and the guy who played Horshack on Welcome Back Kotter. These two were supposed to be some badass biker dudes who everyone was afraid of and Leno liked Alice or something and then his girlfriend wanted to beat Alice up. This episode turned me against the show forever. it sucked
When guest stars (especially singers) just happened to meet Alice and ended up performing with her. The pattern seemed to be as follows: (1) The guest star (like Joel Gray, for instance) just happens to drift into the diner. Alice's reaction was always the same -- She would look at the rest of the cast (and the audience) with her mouth wide open and say the person's name... "It's Joel Gray!!!" as if she's completely surprised. Of course, the applause from the audience is pumped way up too (as if there are lots of Joel Gray fans out there in the American public). (2) Somehow or another the plot leads to the guest star discovering that Alice can sing. (3) Somehow or another, the guest star ends up performing with Alice in front of a bunch of people. (4) At the end of the "big show" Alice opens her mouth wide again and hugs the guest star as if they're old friends and then gives the obligatory "I'm having the time of my life" giggle. The most pathetic part of this scenario was the implication that the guest star was somehow eager (or lucky) to be performing with this obnoxious waitress. Like a horrible car wreck, "Alice" was difficult to turn away from. Its entertainment value, however, was not derived from the performances of the cast. Rather, it was fascinating to see just how low the show could sink. (They seemed to have an inexhaustible supply of sharks to jump over.)
This show got much better when Vera started having a little of a backbone. The first season when she was so over-mousy was crazy. I loved Flo, and I loved Belle, the last girl, Jolene, just was a stupid hick. I couldn't stand her. She didn't have the sex appeal that the other two had. One thing that did bug me about this show was Alice's holier-than-thou attitude. I kept wanting for someone to smack her and put her in her place.
Alice and friends go to Las Vegas. Once there, they all reveal they are huge fans of Robert Goulet. Can you name one person who is an ardent fan of ROBERT GOULET? Secondly, Alice decides to impersonate him and sings some lounge tunes to the horror of the viewing public Alice was certainly on the skids after Ms. KISS MY GRITS saw the writing on the wall and split. The ensuing years were rough, as the producers apparently replaced the previous writing staff with high school student interns.
This show jumped when Vera married that loser guy...I can't even remember his name.
First off while i enjoyed the show and still watch reruns on occasion...the show sucked after Flo left..One more thing..How the HELL could Mel afford to pay 3 waitresses working the same shift when there was hardly ever more than 3 people eating in there??
The perm was the great downfall of many a good 70's show. Just look at Joyce DeWitt on Three's Company if you don't believe me! When Alice got her perm, you knew the show was down for the count.
This show had all the usual jumps: a central character leaves (CBS? Kiss my contract!); celebrities constantly popping in to the diner (this happens ALL the time where I work, as I'm sure it does to you); a cute child who is freakishly maimed by puberty (and grows to be nine feet tall); and a main character who just HAS to has to have a talent (did Linda Lavin's singing remind anyone else of weasels being tortured with grapefruit spoons?). This show took a great movie and an interesting premise and converted it into an insipid, pablum-encrusted anesthesia fest. For me, the ultimate JTS point (other than Martha Raye singing while her dentures were slipping out) was the episode in which Mel, who to that point was portrayed as the cheapest employer on earth, buys a robot (kind of a cross between Lost in Space's "Danger Will Robinson" robot and Rosie from The Jetsons). I remember watching this with my mouth open, amazed that the writers and producers would think for even a second that anyone over the age of four who wasn't mentally incapacitated would think that was funny.
This show was so bad it was good. It pissed me off so much that I had to watch. Linda Lavin''s "singing" was,at best, painful! She would redo that awful theme every year and it sucked harder every time! Her and Martha Rae singing "Do Ya Think I'm SExy" A truly horrifying moment! And were we to believe that Flo was some great piece of as? She'd get all gussied up and go down to the "Shea-Chug-A-Lug" to meet Whizzer for some drinks and then she'd slobber on his trouser trout in the sleeper compartment of his 18 wheeler. UGGGHHH!!! As for very, she was the essence of skank. Remember when Tommy was in love with her? What a looker that offspring would have been if those two adonis's consummated their union of love! was easily.
In general, the great, great television show called Alice just went on too long, like a 4th of July party that ends the day before labor day. Flo leaving was the single biggest piece of shark meat. Tommy's shall we say awkward growing during the 7 year run was like a science fiction theme. I once heard a veteran television executive producer talking about the formula for a perfect comedy, and he ended his talk with the phrase . . "5 years and out"; referring not only to when syndication money kicks in but also the universal time at which fresh ideas run their course. Had Alice taken this advice, it would be on virtually everyone's top 10 list. But as the years go on, most people remember the last couple of years of a show, and that dooms Alice from being considered the classic it was.
When Flo told Mel for the last time to kiss her grits and they brought in Jolene to replace her. Not nearly as clever and frankly she looked like a drag queen most of the time.
This show definitely jumped the shark when they had that two part episode that crossovered with Dukes of Hazzard. Seeing Boss Hogg and Roscoe walk into Mel's Diner was the thing that clinched for me.
Looking back on the reruns today, I find it somewhat embarrassing that I actually enjoyed this show when it first aired! Of course, I was in my early teens then and therefore did not have a fully formed brain at that time! The writing was horrible, the jokes stale, and the situations incredibly lame. Whatever watchability the show possessed came in the shows first few seasons while Flo was on. As the show continued and the cast continued to change, the show just got worse and worse. By the time Jolene showed up, the show was completely unwatchable.
Here's what I hate about television shows. It seems every few years, a show comes along that gets you interested, and then starts promoting the stars main personal interests or side careers. You've seen this before- Like how every Cosby show became a black heritage showcase, or jazz review. In Alice's case- it was her constantly reminding everyone that she's available for Broadway if needed! She brought these useless Broadway stars on her show, and the obscene musical numbers, it was never about putting on a good sitcom- just about being a half hour infomercial for Linda Lavin.
I thought this show was funny as a kid but it's hard to stand now. The whole premise is that Alice is on her way to California to make it with her singing career. (Never mind I think she left New York!) En route she ends up in Phoenix and never leaves! Even as a kid I thought "geez, she made it all the way to Phoenix, why is she stuck at Mel's Diner!" Total shark jumping. I loved the analogy thread about her singing with celebs (Joel Gray!) too funny.
At some point towards the end the writers decided to have some fun with the set and see how they could destroy it. First, Flo drove a semi through it, then they had a tree crash down on it, and then there was a third way- I forget what. Usually some sort of deux ex machina thing. What was that all about. That and the parade of guest stars (Telly Savalas, George Burns...) was definitely the shark jump!!
Proof positive that Americans will watch anything.
This show jumped the shark when Flo left to go do her spin-off aptly named Flo, which lasted about 5 seconds, 3 seconds longer than Florence, the Jeffersons spin-off.
On Alice, when they brought on the new waitress and Flo was out. (I forgot her name! She was very southern) She sang a song for Tommy (Alice's son) about M-I-crooked I-crooked I- I -crooked I- crooked I- I -humpback-humpback- I!!! Why do I remember all that? Rerun must've been in heavy rotation!!!
Oh boy, this should have been put out of its misery from the getco.....Tommy's growth spurt, yikes. Remember the one with Alices crappy singing? oh i forgot thats every episode.
Flo's initial replacement was Belle and she was the original Alice in the Martin Scorcese film "Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore". Great film but lousy television series.
Many things were wrong with this show. First off, living in Phoenix I must take exception that breaking down here and being "stranded" here is a bad thing. Hell of a lot better than Jersey and the no-good husband ol' Alice left behind. THEN, has anyone else noticed how Linda Lavin always had that mouth agog semi-smirk on her face. I swear, they didn't need flypaper in Mel's Diner because Alice was catching them all in her PIE HOLE! Then Linda would sing like the whitest woman on earth with her mouth open so wide you could count the crowns on her teeth. ICK!
Vera believes that George Burns is really God. This suspended reality so far that the actress -- Beth Howland -- looked truly embarrassed. No Emmy for that one.
When they had the episode about Alice's failed attempt to stage a musical based on Arizona ("Two Tootsies from Tucson"... yikes), and then had Joel Grey come on for no reason other than to sing with Linda Lavin, that's when it became obvious, even to me as a kid, that the series plot had ground to a halt. The end of the innocence for this TV viewer.
Okay, there are several things about this dumbass show that I need to point out. First, how did Alice manage to live in a relatively nice apartment and bring up her son on the money she made waitressing at the diner? Especially a diner where there were never any customers. And did you notice that Vera, Alice, and Flo/Belle/Jolene were always there at the same time - wouldn't most waitresses in this setting work in shifts? And how could Mel afford to keep 3 waitresses when business was so bad - I would think that he would need to lay someone off. And the episode where Flo gets married in Mel's Diner - god that is so stupid. Who the hell would actually get married in a Diner? That really bugs me about sitcoms - for some reason whenever a wedding takes place, it must always take place in the main room of the set. For example, Jackie marries Fred in Roseanne's living room on Roseanne - uh, okaaay...One of those Golden Girls gets married in their living room (Dorothy I think). So, so, so stupid. Who the hell does this? Go to a church or a government building or an outdoor park or something - not in a greasy spoon!
I have to agree with some of the above comments. Alice jts when Robert Goulet guest starred and Alice impersonated him. I was a big fan of Flo and the show never really was funny after she left, but I still watched. But the Robert Goulet episode was just too much for me to swallow.
I say this show never jumped just because it was truly entertaining from start to finish. Although, I really got close and somewhat boring when many of the episodes were about Vera and her new husband. Vic Tayback as Mel is comic Genius. Love the guy and he made the show, no doubt about it. Second best was Flo. Very funny and they made a huge mistake by letting her make her own show to start and especially when they did not let her come back after her show tanked. BIG mistake. I love the theme song. The only theme song that stuck in my head all these years, the only one that I can remember all the words to and love to sing along. I take my hat off to Vic Tayback though, did a great job of comic acting.
I admit, I watched this show from the day it started until the day it ended, but if I try to watch it now, I find that it is unwatchable. The only really good actor on the show was Vic Tayback. One thing I knew was bad, even as a child, was Linda Lavin's "singing", whoever told her that she could carry a tune needs to be tied up and forced to listen to her fingernails on a chalkboard warbling for hours on end. As for Flo being the hot one, she actually was the most attractive out of those three, which is scary.
No more "Kiss my grits"?! When Flo left, that was the death knell. It never looked back. Alice's singing career was the death shudder. You could stick a pin in it at that point.
You know what's really funny/scary/gross? people say Flo was the best-looking. In reality, Polly Holiday was the OLDEST, by far! The red wig she wore might have hidden the fact her real hair was graying. I saw her on match game circa 1978, and I couldn't believe how fooled we, the Alice viewing public, were! Knowing this, I wouldn't touch Flo if you paid me a million in grits!
I first want to blame my mother for making me watch this crap! I was too young to realize how bad this show was. But what can you expect, she grew up when TV was invented. I hate Vera, YUK !! Haggered BEEEOTCH!! She gives waitresses a bad name. Not all are stupid, some can start their car without reading the instruction manual... I always wanted to see Mel with his guido-gold ham slapping that PIG Flo doggystyle. I think this show needed someone like Snoop Dog as the lead character. He would have controlled those BEEEEOTCHES better than Melzy. Picture Tommy and Snoop lighting up a bone at Alices crib while slamming back some Colt 45. His towels in his bathroom reading HIS and Hoes. Alice deserved to die, and no one was desperate enough to pick it up in syndication.
When Alice started to sing in practically every damn episode. Why, oh why, didn't they just boot that no-talented whore and renamed the show "Mel's Diner"? Hell, Vic Tayback was the real star, God rest his fat soul.
When I realized that Mel was paying three waitresses to serve 20 seats - many of which weren't even filled.
Flo's departure was bad enough... but the absolute worst was letting Martha Raye portray Carrie Sharples (Mel's mother). All these years later, and I still don't get it. Was Martha Raye supposed to be funny? She didn't make me laugh. I only felt embarrassed to be watching the show with her in it. Absolutely hideous.
When Flo left the show, it kind of lost momentum. They brought in a Flo-type named Belle and when she didn't work out, they brought in another country bumpkin named Jolene. Flo should have stayed on the show. Her spinoff was a dud and leaving Alice weakened that show as well.
You can't blame the kid for growing it's not like he did it on purpose. Anyway, it sounds like most of you were teenagers watching all the 70's crap. I was at least a gullible little kid; what's your excuse? I loved the episode where Vera thought George Burns was God. But there were two REALLY big shark jumpers for this show now that I think back. Tele Savalas breaking up all of Mel's dishes (at least he came back and paid for 'em though) Then everyone quits Mel's Diner and the only job they can find is working for a singing telegram company? Get these women some job skills, QUICK!
This show jumped the shark after the first season when the writers ran out of ideas. First of all, they took a great movie by Martin Scorcese (Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore) and transformed it into a halfass sitcom. Unlike MASH, it was not on par with the original movie. For one, it made no sense whatsoever. She lived in a nice house with her son on a waitress salary!! Also, no one seemed to like Mel's cooking, yet it stayed in business??? The waitresses insulted the food as well as him. Typical line: What's good on the menu? Answer: The lettering. Plus, they all talked back to their boss yet never got fired (well maybe in one special episode i'm sure). But the only reason I'm sure the show lasted so long was because it cost little to make and did Ok on Sunday night against the movie of the week. We don't see Linda Lavin on television much these days, and the reason is obvious: she has no talent!!! Same reason we rarely see repeats of the show.
Whoa! Martha Raye and Linda Lavin sang "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy" as a duet? Man, I didn't see it but that conjures up imagery that shouldn't be conjured up. Is there a support group for people who saw that episode? I barely watched this show because wasn't it on opposite the ABC Sunday movie or something?
Well, I have to confess I was a fan of this riot when I was young, the only thing was I watched the reruns only instead of the original broadcasts. But let's get to the point!! It sunk when Flo was let go, I have to admit that some of you will find this gross but, Flo was one Sexy Mama!!! I rather enjoy her flawless sex appeal than Blanche from golden girls. I didn't mind seeing episodes with Jolene or that Diane ladd character. But Flo was a riot and so was this show. I still like it but with no Flo..no show.
A conversation takes place in Mel's Diner: Mel: Hey, you broads! Where in the Hell is Flo? Alice: Uhhhooohhhhhhh...yaa.. uhh. Vera.. help me out. (laugh track plays briefly) Vera: Mel, do ....you....like hamsters? Mel: All right, Alice! Hand over Flo, or you're fired! Alice: I can't Mel. Do you see that big tank over there (in her New York dilect)? Well, Mel, that tank is filled with man-eating sharks, and wellllll.. Flo was kind of messin' around.. annddddd. Mel: Listen, the two of you two dingbats better hand over Flo, because I'll be Damned if I'm going to die in disgrace from advertising Heinz 57 Sauce when I'm an old man! Vera: (crying) ohhhh..Flo's been eaten up by a SHARK! Alice: So, Mel, you better grab that bottle sittin' on that table over there, and start pushin' the sauce (laugh track) Mel: (with a look of amazement) Shark! That's what's on the Menu in my diner today! Henry: (sitting down in his lazy telephone style) Uh oh! I Knew there was a reason why Mel's food was so bad! (applause) Closing Credits.
Mel's Diner was on the Shark Menu from the first episode. The relatively dramatic movie was good, I just wonder what kind of programming "genius" decided to dumb it down into a '70' sitcom
When I was a young pup, my sis and I used to watch Alice in syndication. We thought it was so funny, probably not even geting any of the sex jokes that Flo and Mel would play off each other. My dad used to get so riled up at us and tell how dumb of a show it was. But we loved it. Years passed until one day I saw Alice again on E!. I was excited to see Mel, Flo, Alice and the rest of the gang. But soon I started to realize that this show was crap. The writing was terrible, the acting forced, the timing between characters was inconsistent. I was forced to realize that my father was right. Though, you gotta love Henry.
This show never jumped the shark to me. I am only 20 yrs. old but I can remember watching this show when I was like three when Jolene was on the show. And the re-runs were great to watch. The only time it sorta jumped was when Belle Dupree joined the cast. I did not like her and was glad she left but the episodes before her with Flo and her "Kiss my grits", and "When donkeys fly", and one time she said, "Thats like trying to chop cotton with a dull hoe" hilarious. Love this show and for people who don't like it thats your opinion, but Flo wasn't sexy or hot just funny.
Never jumped! It was the Cheers of its time. I wish Flo would have returned after her own series flopped, though.
I cant believe nobody has mentioned this.. When Alice dressed up as a man (a gangster type) and nobody knew it was her. Give me a Break
Hey!! Leave Flo alone!! I thought she was hot, in a this-is-what-happens-to-porn-stars-that-dont-save-their-money kind of way. She was probably a real stunner in her heyday - around the thirties! I dug her and her innuendo.. and I liked Lovey Howell, and Rue McClanahan!! Yes I admit it! i would have done any of them in a minute. Now I also had a thing one summer for Isabel Sanford (Louise Jefferson - even I cant explain that one)
Want to know what happened to tommy? He became Shawn Bradley of the mavericks!!!!
The show jumped when Flo left to do her own program and TPTB brought on Belle, the Flo wannabee. Fortunately they got the message that no one could be Flo but Flo and got rid of Belle. Personally I wish they would of ask Polly Holiday to return but for some reason they chose not to. Anyway TPTB did come up with a good enough character the second time around with Jolene. She was a country girl with an attitude too, but she brought a different dynamic to the cast, which is what a new character should do. BTW, I liked Linda Lavin's singing and had no problem with Tommy growing up or Vera getting married.
No one could be Flo, but Flo? Please! Diane Ladd, the actress who played Belle, was the original Flo. She co-starred in the movie "Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore" alongside Vic Taybac (Mel) and Ellen Burstyn, who won the Best Actress Oscar as Alice. In Belle's first episode, she runs in and gives Mel a big hug as if they knew each other from way back. This is a subtle nod to the fact that they appeared together in the movie. They had great chemistry and traded some memorable insults. And Ladd got a much deserved Best Supporting Actress nomination for her efforts. There was nothing wrong with Diane Ladd's performance on the series. The problem was with all the E! True Hollywood b.s. that was going on behind the scenes. I enjoyed Polly Holiday's interpretation of Flo, but she's not the only one who could play that character. Alice did jump the shark, however, from day one because the movie was so much better. If they'd stayed true to the Martin Scorcese directed movie, this show would've ranked right up there with M*A*S*H and All In the Family as one of TV's greatest series.
To the guy who said Flo was sexy, WHAT SHOW WERE YOU WATCHING?? Please, she looks like some trailer trash ho from Alabama. I feel sorry for you if you think she is hot. Anyways, the show jumped when Alice was soaking her feet in the living room of her apt. They made a point of showing her feet which was gross. A close second is when they pulled the ol' sitcom trick of getting people locked in a room without a way out. If memory serves, it was Vera and Mel couped up for many hours. That old idea is so hack'. I know I have seen it done on the Lucy Show, Full House, Happy Days, Steve Harvey and more that I can't think of now. But having said all this, I did like the show when I was growing up in the early '80s.
The beginning were Tommy had to wash the cheese out of his mom's toes. Man I want to hurl just thinking about it. Also don't Linda Lavin appear to be getting off on it!!!! Blechhh.
Yeah, the show was bad. But then, so were a lot of shows from that era, so I guess it really was pretty typical. I was just a kid when I heard Linda Lavin sing for the first time, and even then I thought it was nightmarish-- especially since she wasn't joking. She actually thought she could sing. That's what really used to frighten me. Tommy was just obnoxious and boring, and Vera used to embarrass the hell out of me-- think about it. This woman sees a movie, and doesn't understand that it's all "make believe"-- she thinks what she sees in a movie theater is all true. So, therefore, when George Burns just happens to stumble into Mel's Diner, she sees him and assumes that he is God? In real life, this woman would be living in a group home somewhere. And also, the whole point of Flo wasn't that she was supposed to be hot, at least in the conventional sense. It was that she was an older woman who didn't let the years slow her down.
I could tell this show was shark bait in its first season, when Adam West guest-starred as Tommy's sex-ed teacher, which was also around the same time as the episode wherein Vera tries to kill herself. Suicide--prime comedy material. This show was flat-out ugly.
"Alice" didn't jump. The loss of Flo took away some of the fun. Too bad she didn't return after her spin-off flopped. The routine of Alice "working hard for the money" as a waitress until she got her break as a professional singer wore on too long & the decision to end the show when they did was a good one. It was fast becoming jump the shark material if they hadn't when they did. Vic Tayback was the true star of the show. "Mel's Diner" would have been a better title for the show. Vic Tayback was a comedic genius as Mel's vim & vigor drove the show. The waitresses had their place & certainly would not have been able to carry the show without Mel's influence. The supporting cast comprising of Mel's regulars added to the setting & enriched the dialogue. Dave Madden & Marvin Kaplan were a big part of the show during the diner scenes & they were funny. My favorite episode was the one based on Halloween when Earl dressed as Superman & performed Superman like stunts & antics in a bumbling, inept way. It was hilarious & I hope to see it again someday.
Alice wasn't a bad show. Watched it when I was a kid, and, yes, I thought of a lot of the things said here. Mel was a Mac Daddy....yes, quite unlikely that that fatboy would have gotten tons of chicks. Vic Tayback's best performance was Krako on "A Piece of the Action" in Star Trek. Flow wasn't supposed to be hot in the classic sense, she was a old ho that was "sexy" because she was easy. One of the more unbelievable episodes (among many) was when a shiek played by Richard Libertini wanted to marry Flo. A shiek with hundreds of young brown-eyed wives wants Flo? A short time after Flo's departure from Alice, she was in Gremlins. Yes, she was the oold wheelchair-bound lady, which was more suitable for her age. However, in a show that could have any number of impetuses (impeti???) to JTS (Puberty, Singing, Special Guest Star to the 100th power), I'd say Flo was the main one. I cannot remember any post-Flo episodes, and I can remember quite a few Flo ones, so Flo is what made Alice memorable. Diane Ladd was more attractive than Flo, and had that older hottie quality (how could Laura Dern's mother be anything but), but there was no replacing Flo, as skanky as she was.
During the season with Belle the waitress who replaced Flo. Even though Jolene was funny, she was no Flo.
The scared man running out of the diner again and again.
The sad truth is that by the time Flo left, she had stayed too long at the diner. 5 seasons of "kiss mah grits" and "when donkeys fly!" stops being endearing and starts getting annoying. I wasn't sad to see her go. Bell never worked, because for whatever reason Diane Ladd never had any chemistry with the cast and she was too obvious an attempt to replace Flo (the trademark "little voice" she had made me want to throw a straitjacket over her). Jolene worked beautifully because she brought a fresh perspective and Celia Weston ( a great actress, as her later guest-starring roles on dramatic tv proved) learned the basics of situation comedy very quickly. Most importantly, she had chemistry with the girls and Mel. The last few seasons of "Alice" were, to me, as good as anything in the early years. Vera was no longer written as just the incredibly stupid ditz (an act long past cute or funny) when she found a wonderful man who loved and married her. Tommy was phased out (Doug McKeon was pleasant, even cute in his last few years, but not talented). And they let up on all of the idiotic and repetitive jokes which constantly bashed Mel, a tired gag that had started in the later Flo years. They never made sense because Mel could easily fire and replace all 3 of these women, and they needed the cash, so they should have just shut up already. Thankfully, they eventually did. "Alice" did have pitfalls which never went away (almost any time Alice sang, almost any time Alice had a love interest, hideously over the top Martha Raye), but they were never permanent features. I always loved the running gag of something, anything, crashing into the diner. I also really loved the final episode, one of the simplest and most underrated series finales ever. Everything was tied up (with no pointless guest star shots as would happen today), and they enough time left over to flash back to past glories, except for Bell, who was very noticeably left out. Anyway, don't believe the hype about Flo's leaving, because Flo's leaving actually helped long-term. This was a great show and I wish more sitcoms today were as good.
Come on you guys,was Linda Lavin's singing THAT bad? "There's a neeeeeww girl in toooooown and she's feeeeolin' good! There's a FRESSSSHHH freckled facccccce in the neighborhooooOOOOOD!" I especially liked when her singing style got all jazzy in I think the 2nd season opening credits. (And the duet with Martha Raye singing "do ya think i'm sexy", I don't remember all that. I would have loved to see that.) What made "Alice" jump the shark is when drunk ass looking Jolene joined the cast. She always looked like she one step away from a black out.
I think a lot of people here (especially those criticizing Polly Holiday's character as being the "sexy one") have totally missed the boat. I don't believe that her character was supposed to be the "hot chick" of the show: I think her character's "sexpot" image -- much like Kim Cattrall's character (Samantha) in HBO's "Sex in the City" -- was just that: an image. I think that the show was really about feminism, and at least for the first few seasons, realities of blue-collar women. Alice, Vera, and Flo I believe represented (sort of) mirror image of women in the US. Alice: she dreamt of Hollywood, but car broke down in AZ, so she became a waitress to support herself and her son (why she never caught the next bus to LA I never understood, but that's another discussion)> I think she represents hope, aspirations of becoming something greater, but with multiple hurdles; Vera, the fragile and excitable waitress, represents the innocence; and Flo represents the sexual force, which also makes her brutally honest (which also probably made her the strongest side-character of the show).
How can "Alice" possibly be about feminism?!? No woman in their right mind ran around waitressing in the late 70's wearing tight-fitting uniforms and paper tiaras in their hair. The women were portrayed as being completely dependent on a cruddy job and a boss like Mel who all but used a whip on them. And they stuck around, even feisty Flo. This show was the antithesis of feminism. The movie had a message, I guess, I wasn't thrilled with the movie either. But the show sucked big-time, the only reason it aired for so long is that the other shows from that time managed to suck even more than "Alice" did! 1978-1983 was the bleakest of times in the history of television.
Thankfully, I haven't seen this show since adolescence almost 20 years ago. Even in junior high I realized this show was sooo stupid. I mean, it made "One Day at a Time" seem like Arthur Miller. I think there are two reasons for this. First, it was scripted in the "old school" tradition (in fact, one of Lucille Ball's ex-writers and Groucho Marx's son were credited with some of this awful stuff). That's why we get the stories like when the gang breaks down in a pick up in the middle of nowhere, ATM's that shoot out piles of money, getting locked in a freezer together, etc. The people who laughed at this material were the same ones who laughed at Milton Berle in a dress. These gags were so not funny (the reason Lucy still stands today is in spite of her material; her gift at playing physical comedy is easily on the same level as Buster Keaton. Lavin's talents are on the same level as, well, I won't be cruel). The second reason it sucked was that it made no sense. The film had serious social commentary that the sitcom overlooked. It was a Norman Lear wannabe. It also made no sense...previous posters mention her nice digs in relation to salary, all waitresses working simultaneously, gratuitous guest stars who just flock to Alice (if they loved her singing so much and they became such good friends, why did they always leave her ass in Arizona?). I could forgive the show if it were funny and do some kind of suspense of disbelief. But it wasn't. It wasn't in spades. The British "Are You Being Served" was guilty of many of the same sins as "Alice" was (bad jokes, endless musical numbers, lack of social realism), but at least the characters were engaging, and I can watch it now and then. "Alice", even in small amounts is an overdose. But let's end on a positive: this show absolutely is infinitely better than "Small Wonder".
No kidding, that episode where Mel hires that robotic waitress and she goes beserk scared the holy sugar out of me when I was a kid. I did NOT want to watch that show ever again! So when a TV Show reaches a point where it makes a little kid not sleep for a week..that's when it has truly JUMPED THE SHARK!!
It was my understanding that this show was never supposed to be like the movie "Alice Doesn’t…." (BTW, does anyone remember that pointless feminist "Alice Doesn’t Day" from the mid-seventies or was it just me?). It was a (very) lighthearted and simple comedy. Anyone that’s ever worked in/hung around a coffee shop or diner long enough ought to know that they didn’t actually do too badly representing an encapsulated version of this dynamic. These are high-stress work places with almost always a "dysfunctional family" unit where the big boss can fire everyone one minute and beg them to come back the next when he has to have his ass bailed out of a heavy business spurt. Why people don’t get Polly Holliday’s "Flo" and her wiles ought to watch "American Fabulous" for a great analogy of this type of character. I.e. "…Marie was an old shriveled up ‘peanut’ of a woman attached to a BIG red hairdo and had nails fixed ‘out to there’…she still thought of herself as ‘some young hot babe’…!" Flo fit this to a tee! Polly Holliday in real life looked NOTHING like Flo just as Audra Lindley didn’t have a red "fro" or wore caftans like "Mrs. Roper"! Each in their own right were really talented and very missed character actresses. The show tried to have the diner be busier in the beginning, but from a staging angle it had to be hard to have dialogues go on sound-wise everyone running around with their backs to the camera so gradually they slowed it down to most of the action being before or after opening/closing time or slower periods. Regarding all of the "replacements" after Flo… My information on it was based upon what tabloids said how Linda Lavin’s ego was so inflated the show wasn’t more focused on her pathetic character’s life she drove Polly Holliday out. When Diane Ladd came in she was still too "strong" so out she went too until that boring "Jolene" came along and Linda could be "Queen Bee". (I thought Belle wasn’t too bad - "Uncle Buu-d’s got chickens…Uncle Buu-d’s got corn……Uncle B’s got ‘chillens’ that haven’t been born…!’") Don’t know how reliable the reports were, but it kind of did fall in to place rumor-wise! Think about that bitchy character Lavin played on "Rhoda" (the bridal shower episode where Rhoda finally throws her out). How much of an acting "stretch" was that one to play? You decide! I thought Lavin’s speaking voice was more grating than her singing - almost as shrill as Fran Drescher and she made a CAREER out of annoying! Apparently it was a case of not realizing the importance of the whole ensemble - I stopped watching after "Jolene" came along and this show pretty much fizzled out somewhere in obscurity along with "One Day at a Time", "Jeffersons", etc. that you just kind of forgot about until one day they advertise their "last show is going to air"! Lastly to the poster that said "Snoop-Doggy-doo" should have come along….? Hope you’re only joking. My advice - stay in school and pay REALLY CLOSE attention! Tink’ abou-dit!
Oh, my god! I had forgotten the episode where Alice dressed up as a male gangster. Then, of course, there was the episode where she dressed up like Robert Goulet. Does Linda Lavin have some gender issues?
When Flo left! She was the only character with spark...though I did want to see Vera go off and smack somebody one good time. I hated that "Oh look! It's (Joel Grey, Jerry Reed, Liberace, whoever, insert name of washed-up performer from the era)". Alice's reaction always was a groaner. "What are you doing here in Phoenix?" Like no famous person is allowed outside of New York or LA.
This was a so-so sitcom that was worth watching because of POLLY HOLIDAY! (loved Ellen Burstyn in the movie, btw). You folks are SO RIGHT about Linda Lavin's nasal, shrewish whine ('dis is caricta?') Her speaking AND singing voices GRATED. Linda was always overcompensating for her relative lack of talent (remember her recurring role as a cop on Barney Miller? Can't believe even WOJO would wanna bag her--the whole thing was redeemed only by Max Gail's fine work). IF Linda Lavin was threatened by Polly's upstaging her, well she had good reason to be! Imagine a little league team playing the Yankees! This show had NOTHING to do with the movie. I think they had her singing in later episodes, because fans of the movie kept saying that the movie Alice never forgot that was her goal. I only watched a few Diane Ladd episodes (she was the 'Flo' character in the movie)--in my view she's a good actress who seldom gets a role that shows her off well. After that, I was outta there. I saw some retrospective years ago and they did a whole clip sequence on Tommy's growth spurt, but I was already outta there.
First of all it was established early on that Mel paid his waitresses a decent wage. Remember when they said so but it turned out that he was paying the MAN more. The waitresses DID work shifts you just only saw the days they al worked at once. Belle was introduced and knew Mel, because it was established that she worked for Mel long before Vera and Flo. She came back to promote her song and that failed. Also the m-i-crooked letter, crooked letter I was an OLD song from the late 40s and early 50s. Jo Stafford and Kay Starr did great covers of it. Linda Lavin's singing was acceptable the first season, but got so bad. She is marginal as a singer at best. Tommy wasn't washing his mothers feet but simply pouring hot water on them. She was a waitress on her feet all day. Also her apartment was OK but note she didn't even have her own room. This was to the writer's credit. She only had a one bedroom. Polly Holiday and Linda Lavin did not get on in real life. When Flo left it was to Alice's delight. That is why she wasn't asked back. The ratings with Belle still held. As with Joline. Dianne Ladd left on her own. Each of the women was different. Flo was trailer trash. But a NICE floozey. Like Sissy in "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn". Belle was not cheap, she was more a vamp. And Joline was an independent southern gal. The series had problems with Joline as she was obviously so much younger than Vera or Alice. It was good but it wasn't the same show once Polly Holiday left. Certain things weren't believable. I'm surprised no one mentioned Mel's incredibly hot girlfriend. What was her name? Alice was a feminist. Feminism isn't about being a lawyer it is about doing your best as a woman and succeeding. Alice didn't get married. She took a low end job, worked hard, kept her dream, and raised a son.
Flo's replacement, Jolene Honeycutt, was so awful!! I remember that she used to call Vera her "little shoe button". What the hell is that?
the show failed when Flo left, there's no doubt about that. and i don't think she wanted back on, you know how actors are. and i want to clear this up, that Diane Ladd played FLO in the Martin Scorsese movie, the original titled: ALICE DOESNT LIVE HERE ANYMORE. Ellen Burstyn played Alice. Vic Tayback was Mel in the movie, and the son Tommy was played by Alfred Lutter (Bad News Bears, Love & Death), and he also played Tommy on the TV series pilot, but was replaced by that blonde frankenstein lookalike when the pilot became the series that we all liked back when we were kids but that we now, in retrospect, are acting like we'd always despised - this web site should change its name from Jump the Shark to 20/20 Hindsight.
I loved this show, but it jumped the shark when Jolene joined the crew. Celia Weston has proven herself to be a strong character actress in films, but her role on Alice was watered-down Flo. The producers probably didn't want to tamper with the formula too much, so brought in a character very similar to Flo and her successor Belle. (I liked Belle!) At that point, it would have been nice to see the show take a chance and bring in an entirely different type of character. Vera was written into a corner with her marriage, Tommy was grown, so a new voice among the waitresses could've been refreshing.
Desi Arnaz makes a guest appearance as someone's long lost father. The guy was croaking out one liners, and we watched with strange fascination, waiting for the old geezer to fall off of his cancer-ridden ass and die on the camera. Just plain depressing! Mel rocked! When Vic Morrow got beheaded, some of us thought it was Vic Tayback. Boy, were we relieved (since Twilight Zone the Movie sucked major rocks).
When they started to do those close ups. I think it was when Jolene came on board. They would do a close up of the actor that looked really ridiculous.
There were several factors contributing to the giant leap over the snapping jaws of the shark, but the main one is the singing. Linda Lavin was a good singer. So are about a quarter of the drunks that stand up to do karaoke on any given Friday. She was no better and no worse than any of them. Even if she'd been Aretha Franklin, however, singing always screws up a TV show, unless it's about singing. Why? Well, a sit com is supposed to be funny. Singing is rarely funny, especially how they manage it in a sit com. To me, when a character starts singing a song all the way through on a TV show, it just means that the writers had nothing better to offer, or they are feeling really lazy. Flo and Mel were the only memorable characters on this show. For those griping about Flo being "the sexy one", consider that in terms of cheap roadside diners, any overly made up, inbred looking and sassy woman will be considered sexy because it implies "easy", and though I say this with all due respect to men, they tend to go for what is given to them if they are looking for a piece at a truck stop, and the better looking waitress isn't going to be that easy. That is the implication I got out of that. Vera was actually more likable to me than Alice because she was weird. Alice was the character I least cared for. She was bland, boring, and not terribly funny compared to her co-stars. While the "Kiss My Grits" thing got as old and tired as "Whatchoo talking about, Willis?", that wasn't the reason this show jumped. Alice singing did it for me.
Okay, a few things. First of all, anyone who would consider Flo better looking than Alice -particularly in the first season with Alice's longer hair- has been eating some Phoenix mushrooms. Having said that, Flo's sexiness was never meant to be the Pam Anderson sense of the word, just the self-confidence a woman has when she's common sense smart and feels at home with men she's around. Alice was better looking with her longer hair, when it got short and when the theme song changed to the less bluesy one, it was time for Mel's famous shark sandwich. The original Alice theme, early to rise, early to bed was awesome. Was that the guy from Deep Purple on the ivories? Sure, she overdid the "look-ing guh-ood" lyric but the "goin' through life with blinders on, it's..tough..to..see..." has more soul in it than anything today's annoying I'd-commit-suicide-if-I-weren't-so-rich female singers serve up. Tommy, the reason he looked that tall was LL is a relatively short woman to begin with, so that made Tommy look taller. Finally, did one dude actually write he found Mel the sexiest of them all?
The characters or I should say caricatures were stilted just like the story line. And the kid who played Tommy must have been related to some network executive because you could find better acting in an elementary school Christmas pageant.
It was not one of those shows that was really of much interest to me, except when that Bouffant hair-doed chick named Flo appeared with that infamous line "Kiss My Grits". She was the hillbilly equivalent of the "painfully outspoken" Simon Cowell of the seventies, and spoke her mind clearly. Funny there are those who find a character like that who don't take crap, and have such a firecracker attitude about it. When she left, the show was prime shark feed. It was so dull, you could just die.
I remember an episode when Tommy stopped by the diner to recite all the presidents in order...and the audience went wild...now i don't know if the responses were "canned" for that show but regardless, you can bet that the actor was reading off "cue cards" and didn't deserve such a reaction for rattling off the names of the presidents. it was so stupid...call me when the tall **** did something really special...like getting into Vera's dingy apron.
I remember sort of enjoying this show at first, but it seemed to follow the sad pattern of many otherwise-promising sitcoms of the era: The creators craft a show with a distinctive look and feel, hoping it will stand out from the pack. Once the show catches on, however, it quickly regresses into standard plots and situations, and the idiosyncrasies that once made their characters human are exploited beyond plausibility. "Alice" became the type of show--much more prevalent when the three networks reigned unchallenged--that people watched out of habit rather than out of anticipation.
Why do TV producers continually insult the intelligence of it's audience?!After Flo left the show was horrible.
When Polly Holliday left. Producers went for double or nothing and lost. First, and I have to say it again, a character present at the beginning of one show won't work in an unfamiliar setting. Secondly, identical replacement characters don't work, either. Once the original premise is gone, it's time to say goodbye. "Flo" never had a chance and "Alice" began its slow, steady decline. The end result was worse than Mel's chili!
The second that Flo left the show was when 'Alice' J-THE-S! It seems to me that, in real life, there were rumors that Linda Lavin turned into a prima donna when the show rose in the ratings and that was why Polly Holiday left for her own series. Nothing official, of course, but isn't it strange that Flo was never mentioned or heard from again after Polly Holiday left?
When Flo left, she made the show, Jolene and Belle sucked!
Without a doubt, Alice jumped when Flo left. This is a no-brainer! There were some good episodes to follow, but a lot of air went out of the balloon after Polly Holliday left. Also, Mel had more sex appeal than Alice, Vera, or Jolene...
I always felt Alice jumped right after the credits ended, but I just wanted to make a comment regarding the episode where Vera stops smoking. In the mid to late 60's, the actress who played Vera was the Salem Cigarette girl on television (You can take Salem out of the country, but...). Many people remembered her from those ads, and I always felt that was the reason the writers chose to use smoking as Vera's vice.
Vera (aka: The Dingy Chick) really thought George Burns was God--come on!!! She couldn't have been this mentally ill!
Someone mentioned the change in the theme song, but I think this show jumped the shark when the end changed from "...life's gonna be...so-o-o-o-o sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet" to "...life's gonna be...BOPPITY BOP!!!" Just awful.
When Michael Vincente Gazzo guest-starred as a gangster (Imagine that!) living in hiding in Arizona. Vera, the Giligan of this show, thinks she's seen him before. When she realizes who he is, she turns him in to the feds! Now, everyone in the place likes the old man, but Vera sends him off to prison. Were there any repercussions to Vera's actions? No! She's simply lovable, old, kooky Vera! Gazzo and Lavin sing a duet of "Itsy Bitsy Spider" just before they haul him away! Total B.S.
When Diane Ladd, who was the original Flo in Martin Scorsese's original film version ALICE DOESN'T LIVE HERE ANYMORE (1975) replaced Polly Holiday as the Flo-like Belle Dupree. When she got her Emmy, she left and when the producers got a third southern blonde smart-alex (or smart-alice?) in Celia Weston's Joleen Hunnicut, the show was finished. They should have added a fresh, new character, but the show got silly and the focus went from the story of a single-mother struggling to raise her only son, to a dumbed-down sitcom not worthy of its early years. Linda Lavin's perm was a mark of desperation, as was Vera's lame boyfriend (a mistake repeated later on TV's MOONLIGHTING) and CBS only kept it around because people kept watching inexplicably. Now, like later bad episodes of WELCOME BACK, KOTTER, we have to suffer through a bunch of bad shows before the good ones resurface when shown in syndication and/or cable/satellite on TV. Where are the DVDs to these shows?
I must agree with the consensus posters who say this show jumped from day one because of the host. James Lipton is a pompous, egomaniacal, windbag who doesn't have a clue on how to interview actors or ask the questions that we would like the answers to. He interviews dozens and dozens of actors and while going through their biography will spend an hour and a half talking about the movie that won them an Oscar or the TV show that won them an Emmy. These movies and shows have already been talked to death on every other show. I would like to know more about the films that weren't box office successes but the performers learned something from them and the film is still special to them and why. I want to learn about the things that they don't cover on ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT or E: THE TRUE HOLLYWOOD STORY. Lipton has the opportunity to get it from the horse's mouth and instead all he cares about is what was it like to go up and accept the Oscar and what is your favorite curse word. This show could be really special with a different host.
I don't think anyone's mentioned this yet, but the one thing about this show that sticks out in my mind is the way Mel was always on the waitresses' case about "moonlighting."-- "You know the rules, no moonlighting!!!" Moonlighting, as I recall, meant having another job in addition to the waitressing gig at Mel's. As if most waitresses don't have other sources of income or careers where they have to wait tables to make ends meet..... Just silly.
ALICE jumped the shark when Polly Holliday left her role as FLO. Ironically, as wonderful as she was on ALICE, her spinoff sucked. Flo was a supporting character and should have stayed that way. The show jumped again when Phillip hit puberty and got about seven and a half feet tall.
I have been watching this show again, and some things bother me about it. •Why did Mel, Flo, Vera, and Alice seem to feel obligated to see each other 24/7? The best example is in that New Year's Eve episode when Flo had to work at the diner alone. Alice was worried about Flo (why?), so she and her boyfriend Greg went to the diner to check on her. Vera and her boyfriend Brian followed, suit, as did Mel and his girlfriend Marie. Are there any shows where they did NOT see each other outside the diner? If so, those episodes are few and far between. I know they're friends, but why don't they give each other any space? •A previous poster talked about the pattern which was followed when a guest star sang with Alice. Did anyone else notice those episodes when a co-worker's old friend visited the diner? As they were talking, Alice came up and said to her co-worker, "Aren't you going to introduce us?" Or, it was, "Since they aren't going to introduce us, I'll do it." Maybe it's just me, but it seems to be incredibly TACKY. It's like Alice took her "Hey, I'm important; pay attention to me" pills. •Why was Vera, in the early episodes, written as arguably the dumbest, most dim-witted, most clueless person on TV? Isn't it practically impossible for anyone to be as bad as Vera in that sense? Does that grate on anyone else's nerves? Otherwise, I really enjoyed this show while I was growing up. The TNT television network showed reruns, and I taped a lot of them. It seemed to me Vera was the most comfortable when Jolene was working at the diner. Flo and Belle looked at Vera as someone to be (sometimes barely) tolerated; watch their facial reactions after Vera spoke. Jolene treated Vera like a true friend, and there was more true dialogue between Jolene and Vera than between Vera and Flo, or Vera and Belle. Also, I loved the verbal sparring between Mel and his mother, brilliantly played by the late Martha Raye. They went at it like cats and dogs, but you know the mother loved the son, and vice versa. Someone wrote the episode with Jay Leno as the badass biker was really bad. Great observation! That, to me, is one of the lamest episodes of the series, along with the one where Vera thinks George Burns is God. My favorite "guest star" episode was with Telly Savalas, but I thought it was a bit much for Vera to quit at the diner because no one believed she met Telly. How flimsy of a reason is that? Jolene was my favorite of the three "other waitresses" (Flo, Belle, and Jolene). She was the best-looking of the three. The 1985 finale was really well-done, but the TV rankings showed it as the sixth-LOWEST rated program of that time period. I've really enjoyed reading these comments. What memories they brought back!
When Flo left, the show lost something. The banter between her and Mel was great. Mel was my favorite character on the show... the ultimate male chauvinist, yet likable. "You broads are driving me crazy"! "Stow it"! I hadn't watched the show for a while but in 1984, I got transferred to the Phoenix area when I served with the U.S. Air Force. I started watching the show again (it was in its last year) and it was pretty lame by then- it had definitely run its course. But there were some good episodes over its run- I liked where Mel is supposed to take care of Tommy for a weekend while at the same time his partying poker buddies are going to have a game at his place. Watching Mel try to be the ladies man was funny, also. Vic Tayback may be no longer with us, but he'll always live on as "Mel Sharples"!
Anyone who has ever seen Martin Scorsese's wonderful 1974 film "Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore," will realize what a travesty this insipid redo was. Linda Lavin was a poor replacement for Ellen Burstyn, and the rest of the cast wasn't much better. The one good character, Flo, was run off because of the star's over-sized ego. Hollywood should have learned long ago not to take classic films and make them into rotten shows!
It jumped like many shows with teenage guys in it do. Out of nowhere in one episode Tommy is the star basketball player even though its never mentioned before in the series, and because the producers are too cheap to film it in a real gym with real baskets they film it in a small room with 8 foot high cheesy baskets. The actor clearly has no athletic ability but dunks over everyone (see 8 foot basket). And in that episode of course Tommy isn't allowed to play in the big game because he got in trouble then used the old cliched tape recording of the typewriter bit and snuck out. (Parodied beautifully in Family Guy)Also see Happy Days (both Ritchie and Chachi), Fresh Prince of Bel Air (Will), and many other sitcoms that use this same lame plot line.
Jumped when it ran way too long. Mildly funny the first season or two (in a 70's cookie cutter comedy kinda way), then it slowly died off. And why did Linda Lavin insist on singing at every opportunity?? I remember my father (a fan of the show) cringing and changing the channel whenever she started up, periodically changing back, commenting "Jesus, is she done yet?".
First, a comment about Linda Lavin's singing. Linda Lavin was a Broadway star (It's A Bird! It's A Plane! It's Superman) before her stint as Alice. She was known for being a singer. Secondly, I've seen a few comments about why Flo was the "sexy" one. Flo was not the sexy one. Flo was the easy one. Big difference. All the guys knew that they could count on Flo to come through for them. Simple as that. Straight men might not want to admit it, but there are many of them who will take what's available if they can't get what they would like.
One of those shows which I watched faithfully when it first aired but would never watch in reruns. When you get older you realize that your time is limited so why watch stuff like this AGAIN? I too hated how Linda Lavin constantly redid the theme song every season and how the show faltered when Flo left (FYI--the producers asked her to come back but Polly Holliday refused, saying she was done with the character [and didn't want to deal with Lavin, perhaps?].) Polly Holliday was terrific, and I even liked Beth Howland. My favorite was Mel's girlfriend, Marie, played by Victoria Carroll, a lovely and funny lady. And I have to give the show credit--there were two classic episodes: one where Mel is mugged by an old lady and he lies and says it was a huge thug, and one where Mel offers free meals if the waitresses don't smile, just when Alice is in a pissy frame of mind. But as with many shows of this era when I was growing up (One Day at a Time, Mork and Mindy, The Facts of Life) Alice is something I'd never watch again.
Of course this show jumped the moment Linda Lavin screeched the theme song into a microphone. And no, she was never, at any moment in time a "Broadway star", she was in It's A Bird, It's A Plane, It's Superman, which was savaged by theatre critics and closed within 3 months of opening. She had a few small roles in others before she gave up entirely and focused on tv acting where standards are much lower.
Tommy, Alice's son, signaled a JTS moment on the show. It just wasn't him going from a cute cuddly boy (whose sister Nancy McKeon made frequent cameos on), but when he grew to 6'0 and higher, the dynamics of the show changed. He went off to college, and pretty much left the show. Flo was gone by then, which meant the spunk left with it. Flo's replacement was as dull as Eartha Kitt Singing Les Miserables. Vera just got nuttier and nuttier, making Rose Nylund from the Golden Girls much more saner. Alice wasn't working to support herself and Tommy anymore, just getting into quirky situations because life as a waitress wasn't just as fulfilling as it was when she sang fa fa fa on the theme song.
The "Cinderella" episode when diphead Vera becomes the surprise star of the town play and Alice angrily receives a review of "adequate" as the wicked stepmother from a reporter she was trying to impress. As if Vera had it together enough to actually find the place for tryouts, let alone show up on time, know her lines or steal the show. I was 8 and they couldn't even fool ME with this ******** story line.
I thought this show was weak when I was a teenager--and my opinion hasn't changed. Johnny Carson hit the nail on the head when he said, "Alice makes Three's Company loook like Masterpiece Theater."
I hate to give such a lousy show a "didn't jump", but "Alice" only promised low-rent bleakness, and successfully delivered it from beginning to end. A forerunner to the superior "Roseanne".
Season 2. The first season show runners were replaced the second season with (I think) the duo who wrote for I Love Lucy and The early Lucy Shows, Madelyn Pugh and Bob Carroll. They turned it into another Lucy show with guest stars inexplicably showing up at Mel's Diner and singing with Linda Lavin. In the first season, while not on the same level as a Norman Lear of MTM production, the show was at least somewhat typical of a CBS 1970s sitcom, portraying some real honest situations that a widowed woman with a pre-teen son would come across. The show was slightly more serious. Notice I said SLIGHTLY. The two-parter with Eileen Heckart as her mother-in-law is a perfect example. But after the first season, the show just got silly with plots that weren't even worthy of Lucy in her prime. And it was the late 1970s for God's sake!
Whenever Alice sang, it embarrasses me right now just thinking about it. Seriously, I'm turning red.
Flo leaving to star in a very bad show that flopped after 1 season!!! What were they thinking??? CBS can "Kiss Mah Grits!!!"
This show in a way never really jumped because it started out awful and stayed true to its awfulness throughout its unbearably long run. But the single most irritating episode was one where Mel's mother, Martha Raye, was visiting with her new husband. Martha's husband was jealous because a lot of other men in the diner were paying all kinds of attention to her, like she was gorgeous and sexy (Martha Raye must have been about 85 at the time). The husband was getting all pissed off and was ready to walk out on Martha when Alice, who for some reason was supposed to represent "the voice of reason," made everyone shut up and listen while she made a speech putting the husband in his place. She said something in her nails-on-chalkboard voice like, "You knew when you married Mel's mom that you were getting a really attractive person. You should know that other guys are always going to be hitting on her and you should be willing to live with that." WHY did so many of these really bad sitcoms have a premise that some hideously ugly old broad was so hot that guys couldn't resist her? They did this same thing on "Good Times" a lot with everybody acting like Florida was some kind of sex symbol. The whole thing is so lame!
In about the fourth or fifth episode, Vera and her boyfriend make a suicide pact. She was going to take sleeping pills while her boyfriend was going to shoot himself. Vera takes the pills at the diner during a heavy rainstorm and is trapped at the diner with Alice and Flo. Alice and Flo do everything to keep Vera awake until help can arrive, but the roads are washed out because of the storm. When help finally arrives, we find out that the boyfriend didn't kill himself because he didn't have any bullets (Alice offers him some). Mel shows up, not knowing what has happened and expects everyone to be working. Flo is going to insult Mel, but breaks down crying, saying "I'm too tired to say it." To which Alice says "Mel, kiss her grits!" Now, if this had been Vera's last episode, I wouldn't have a problem with this. But she continued to work there and neither Alice nor Flo ever brought it up again. A suicide attempt isn't something that you just sweep under the rug. I felt this was treated too lightly and the show never really recovered for me (how it ran for 11 years is a mystery to me. And to think, this is based off of the Oscar-winning movie ALICE DOESN'T LIVE HERE ANYMORE).
I couldn't stand this show because of Flo's constant bragging about how much ass she got. For one thing, she looked like a Pit Bull with an afro. You know what they say, those who talk about it the most are getting the least. In reality her sex life probably consisted of polishing Mel's knob just so she could keep her job.
Alice was the best show ever. I live in Phoenix and there really is the actual Mel's Diner here on Grand Avenue. The same diner you see in the opening credits. I wanted to make a comment about an earlier post. Someone posted about the episode where Mel, Alice, Flo, and Vera had to give up something or they would lose a bet. Flo had to give up men, Mel and Alice had to give up something but I can't remember what it was. And Vera had to give up smoking! SMOKING?!! The earlier poster was right, I was laughing when I read that post. Since when did Vera EVER smoke?! I totally remember that episode. When I saw it, I was like, "Why is Vera going bananas over smoking? She never DID smoke--at all." That was the most lamest episode I've seen of Alice. People were also cracking on Alice's singing. I use to laugh at it. Linda Lavin really thought she was jammin'. That was funny as hell. As I got older, I really appreciated Polly Holiday (Flo). She's really a funny, funny lady, and a good actress too. I saw her in other things and she's really good. Remember Jolene? I was the one who posted and said that she looked like she was always a step away from a black out. To me she just looked drunk as hell---all the time. She had me rollin' just by looking at her face!! I hope TV Land brings back Alice reruns. And there ain't nothing wrong with Tommy washing her feet!