https://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.tv/browse_thread/thread/b2edad374e8ec1df#


Last Man Standing’s second season was the weirdest sitcom season since
’Til Death (http://www.avclub.com/articles/last-man-standings-second-season-was-the-weirdest,95857/)
By Todd VanDerWerff

Between Last Man Standing’s first and second seasons, the largely
non-distinct sitcom, mostly known for being Tim Allen’s return to
television, had a choice to make. Headed for Fridays, the second
least-watched night of the week (after Saturdays), the program had to
do something to make some noise and hopefully attract viewership.
Simply having Allen in the cast wasn’t going to do it any longer. So,
as Allen and new showrunner Tim Doyle discussed with the New York
Post, the choice was made to try to turn a bland family sitcom into a
modern-day Norman Lear comedy, complete with arguing about social
issues, Barack Obama, and the nation’s legacy of genocide.
Did it work? Having watched all 18 episodes of the show’s second
season, I can’t really say that it made the show better, but it
certainly made it weirder. (And in terms of ratings, it allowed the
show to keep the lights on on Friday, no mean feat.) Its attempt to
put a finger on the country’s pulse made it much more worthy of
discussion than when it was just about some angry guy living with too
many women, as it was in its first season. It’s like when ’Til Death
turned into a strange meta-sitcom in its final season, though somehow
even more misguided.

Here's the responses that I received on IMDb when I took it too the LMS message board:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1828327/board/flat/212676367?d=212676367&p=1#212676367

I actually REALLY liked the second season, my only complaint being that it was too short. But honestly, after the the first few episodes, the show dramatically backed off the politically-themed episodes (which weren't that bad) and relegated politics to where it was in the first season--ever-present allusions that didn't overshadow the storyline. People who make a huge differentiation between the first season and the second season after say, the Christmas episode, obviously weren't paying close attention to either.
And between Tim Allen and the rest of the wonderful cast, this is one of the funniest sitcoms out there.

I wholeheartedly agree. The ONLY episode in the second season that went farther than it really should have with the political bickering was the opener. It was about the election, so it's forgivable. There is nothing wrong with the occasional politically charged remark as long as it doesn't form the basis of an entire episode. The remainder of season 2 was far more balanced, funny, and routinely charming.

The cast continues to do a wonderful job and the (rather risky) changes they made prior to starting season 2 have ultimately panned out nicely. I completely adapted to it by midway through the season. I don't miss Krosney, am starting to warm up to Ryan, and couldn't care less that they aged Boyd three years.

I can't wait to see Season 3.

I agree.

Look no further than the season premiere for the definition of gratuitous and heavy-handed political squabbling, but as you stated it did ease off quite a bit after that, it also makes sense that they went this way, they needed to go extreme to get people talking and it largely worked, looking back at the premiere it was almost laughably brazen, part of me thinks this was intentional now.

After that episode the writers did a better job of weaving those issues and discussions more organically into the plots of the show while also allowing time for straight comedy, after watching the whole season it's really only Mike and Ryan that engaged in those discussions, Eve, Kristin (except for the change of actresses), Mandy, Kyle etc. remain more or less the same as they were in season one.

I love what they did in season two, they added an element that spiced it up a bit while sticking to the original idea and the fact that it did reasonably well, especially for a Friday night time slot, demonstrates that they must have done something right.

I enjoyed season 2 more than the first. Much funnier.

I agree. I liked the second season much better than the first. The season 2 premiere was way over the top with politics, the worst episode in the series. But I'm willing to give that episode a pass because it was trying to tie in with the presidential election a few days away. Other than that, I thought season 2 was basically an improvement and much more interesting.

Comparing any show to 'Til death' is never a good thing. lol

I'm posting comments that I've collected from various message boards (e.g. TV.com, TWoP, IMDb.com, AVClub.com, Facebook, etc.) about the criticism about the direction that LMS took in the second season when compared to the first:
https://www.facebook.com/LastManStandingABC?fref=ts

The first season was kind of sweet, kind of mild, but it takes some TV shows time to find their footing and work the kinks out, so I came back for the new season and was sorely disappointed. I think modeling the show after All In The Family is a huge mistake. You can't give Mike Baxter Archie Bunker's point of view and expect it to fly. They are from two different places, two different classes. The changing world around Archie Bunker was scary for him, because he had limited means, limited education, and a limited perspective. Mike Baxter crying in his mansion about Obamacare is somehow less sympathetic.

But worse, what I think your show is missing is a living, beating heart. On Home Improvement, Tim Taylor spent most of the episode basking in his manly perspective, then got confused, and THEN learned something about where someone else was coming from. He saw something one way in the beginning, but never really failed to put himself in another person's shoes by the end (with the help of Wilson). It gave a sweetness to the show that is lacking on Last Man Standing.

Based on the way Season 2 turned out, "Last Man Standing" seemed like the sitcom version of Seventh Heaven, and also its spinoff (another Brenda Hampton produced show to be more exact), Secret Life of the American Teenager. Both those shows delt with politics in a strange, shoehorned, tonedeaf way; but they were also about a very specific type of politics, specifically, those dealing with sex. (And the show died a horrible death because it had amazing(ly stupid) arguments about death, ha ha.) This show sounds like that, but with more general politics. Which is just insane.

I think it's a divisive show because it hinges on personal/political values, lacks character/story development and believes comedy thrives on stereotypes. Critically-successful/popular sitcoms can't do all three today. Choose one - maybe two. For example, no one in the show is successful and liberal. Even if you are going to be a conservative-leaning show, you've got to have one person who is liberal and successful. ( See 30 Rock: Jack Donaghy, sucessful conservative, Parks and Rec: Ron Swanson: conservative bada**)

Also, you can't really say the Ryan/Kristen storyline was character development because moving in together at the end of a season is a tired old trope.

Has anyone else noticed the snide remarks made, indicating strongly that Tim Allen, the producers, and sponsors of this show are anti hard working, middle class Americans. The political overtones thrown in, praising Republicans has left me cold. No one I know is watching it anymore. A shame last year it was very entertaining.

Well from what I have read and concluded, Last Man Standing can be added to the the list of “What not to do going into your second season”

-New Showrunner who changes the whole feel of the show
-Recast and Rewrite a lead character that makes it seem like that character is a new character on the show

Your show has lost all its sparkle and connection from the first season with the change in characters, inconsistent storylines from first season and the emphasis being placed on certain topics. It's a perfect case of how to ruin a perfectly good show. Sometimes you hit the perfect combination and you just play it!

I do think one thing for sure is that they should be careful about this next season. There was too many completely political-centered episodes in Season 2. I noticed that they got a little better about it as the season went on, but I think despite the "All in the Family" inspired hopes, they turned too many people off on top of changing Kristin, Boyd, and Ryan.

In my opinion, Season 2 is garbage. I really don't care if they cancel it or not. The only reason I even come to this board anymore is to check and see if they've come to their senses and changed the show back to what it was. Although I suppose there's not much chance of that. The network execs really don't care what the fans want.

What they did to this show is a perfect example of the entire TV industry in general. They replaced one of the cast because to them, all actors (with the exception of big-name stars) are interchangeable. Just like they consider all TV shows to be interchangeable. To them, one show of any given type, is the same as any other.

When the series started Vanessa had apparently just returned to work. I can get the first year and everything, but when they explained that Boyd had been going to a hippy daycare in the first episode. You kind of went: "Well, why did she do that if her mom was at home all the time for before Boyd was even born. Really, Tim Allen and the rest of the writers need to look at this if the show comes back for another season and go: "We need to have this all made sense. What does a Geologist do again?"

Amanda Fuller's Kristin is too over the top, not to mention she is not a really good actor. Create conflict else where and leave politics out. Maybe here and there but not every time her father and her talk. Plus, you have conflict with the other two daughters as well. Really it wouldn't matter if Kristin and her boyfriend were better actors.

Season one of Last Man Standing was an enjoyable family sitcom even if it didn't present a great number of new ideas and rehashed some of the Tool Time/Tim Taylor vibe. We were looking forward to season two and then it came and we're reminded of the old adage, be mindful of what you wish for as you might just get it.

Season two has been an absolute train wreck from the opening scene of the first episode. The first problem - the decision to replace Alexandra Krosney with Amanda Fuller as Kristen Baxter might rank as one of the worst casting decisions ever made by a TV series. Where Alexandra was very believable as an accidental teenage mother doing her best to raise her child, remain pleasant and positive with the support of her family despite her self imposed burdens, Amanda isn't at all. Not believable, pleasant or positive, and rarely even appears to be trying, not the character or the actress. She's clearly much older in not only her appearance but in her manner as well, frequently comes off as bitter, angry, vengeful and openly resentful and hostile to everyone but especially her father. Even when the rest of the cast is working their parts and creating a humorous moment her appearance, as well as that of her equally caustic and unpleasant baby daddy Ryan (Jordan Masterson) are like a demolition crew armed with sledgehammers and chainsaws sent to put an end to it.

Second and perhaps the greater problem is the dramatic shift towards being radical left propaganda the scripts have taken. Whereas the first season touched on some political themes in very vague and general ways and made fun of the left/right caricatures every episode of season two has been a recitation of the most radical and dishonest talking points of the left with the "conservative-ish" characters being portrayed as villains with nothing to say in response or in their own defense.

Some of the propaganda is so over the top it is at the very least highly irresponsible if not down right dangerous. A good example might be episode four where a female gold-digger character played by Robin Riker is deemed to be perfectly reasonable and justified in her expectation of getting more money from her ex despite having carried out an act of domestic violence against her then husband that would likely be classified as attempted homicide were it to occur in real life. Hearing a laugh track as 76 year old Hector Elizondo's character Ed describes being stabbed in the chest near his heart is surreal and the stuff of the most depraved minds in Hollywood.

Although this is now par for the course with everything Hollywood touches these days and relentless bashing of anything traditional, American or center-right passes for comedy is the norm, it's very, very and disappointing to see Tim Allen not only allow this to happen to his show but his participation in it as well.

We've watched our last episode and suspect this series won't be around much longer.

First season was about relationships, this season is just liberal political tripe. Characters have become two dimensional, acting seems forced. Writers and directors should be horse-whipped, then fired. The addition of the actress Amanda Fuller was a huge mistake. She is much too old for the part. The workplace interaction has been cut down to practically nothing. The writers seem to belittle middle class America. It's not humorous, it's just liberal political stereotyping. Something the writers would not tolerate if it was anyone other than white middle class Americans. I'm not saying there aren't some good lines, but not enough to make it worth my time.

The writing is banal and insulting. The characters are horrible clichés and stereotypes. The writers pander to right wing viewers, and I can understand how right wing viewers might respond positively to this. Otherwise, there are no redeeming features. Indeed, if you are even just a little bit liberal, there is a pretty good chance that you'll be insulted by the straw man arguments and characters used by the hack writers to ridicule liberals.

I'm insulted that people think this crap is funny, even if they agree with the political message.

I can not stand the "new daughter" and her baby daddy. Enough is enough with them! Seriously, the original Kristen rocked, no idea why she isn't there anymore, but it's too bad she's gone. So to put this into review terms. Show was great last season, this season they lost everything that was good about the show. Way too political for a sitcom and can't stand the newest actors. Don't believe me...just watch the first season then the second and you will see!!! So since I need more lines to make this a real review, I'll tell you a bit more. Tim Allen is funny, he really is. He did great last year. I don't mind politics in my sitcoms, just don't shove it down my throat!!

They need to find a new actress to replace Molly Ephraim, to play 18-year-old Mandy Baxter better.

They also need to find a new actress to replace Kaitlyn Dever, to play 15-year-old Eve Baxter better.

Finally, they need to find a new actor to replace Tim Allen, to play Mike Baxter better, to turn the clock forward!

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3208897-last-man-standing/page-14

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3208897-last-man-standing/page-14#entry15580978

Have this season be a weird burrito nightmare that Vanessa had. She could wake up at the beginning of season 3, turn to Mike and say "I had the most awful dream where you became a right-wing bigot who wished he had boys instead of girls, our eldest no longer wanted to go back to school and her awful ex came back and they were back together--but he no longer even had the talent to sing on cruise ships, our youngest became a shrill, unhappy girl who couldn't make up her mind what she wanted week to week. At least Mandy was still pretty much Mandy. I didn't even remember that I'm a highly respected geologist. And the strangest thing was that your office at Outdoor Man switched with Ed's and no one has any idea why. I'm never eating burritos in bed after 10 pm again." One fell swoop and that would fix everything.

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3208897-last-man-standing/page-14#entry15581116

That would be beautiful, add in the fact that Mike then says: "Wait, Ryan couldn't sing on cruise ships?" "That's the only thing I ever liked about him because it kept him away for months." Vanessa: "He also became a huge hippy who wanted Boyd to be a vegan and was trying to always tell bad jokes. Also, is Boyd 5?" Mike: "No, he's 4. Was Kyle dead?" Vanessa: "No, he was dating Mandy." Mike: (Pause) "He is dating Mandy." Vanessa: "Damn."