Hey you all. I just rewatched this case. I've always leaned towards Berkowitz being a fall guy for a cult, the differed descriptions, his own testimony where he had little to gain...........

What do you all think?

I definitely don't think he acted alone. I agree he was a fall guy for the cult of killers, because he got that ticket.

Way too much points to there being multiple people involved. Hell, before Berkowitz was arrested reportedly most investigators were convinced it was more than one person. Most of the investigators still think it was more than one person.

More than Berkowitz for sure. I've read Maury Terry's book, The Ultimate Evil. He attempts to demonstrate that the Son of Sam murders are related to other supposedly "occult-related" murders committed well before Berkowitz's arrest, and in a totally different part of the country. I think some of Terry's cult allegations and connection theories are totally left field, but I DEFINITELY agree with the basic premise that the Carr brothers, David Berkowitz, and at least one other person were committing those shootings together.

IIRC, one witness in the segment said Berkowitz was not the man he saw shooting the couple in the parked car. Plus, the composite sketches look like 4-5 different men, so I don't think he acted alone.

IIRC, one witness in the segment said Berkowitz was not the man he saw shooting the couple in the parked car. Plus, the composite sketches look like 4-5 different men, so I don't think he acted alone.

Tommy Zaino was the witness, and he had the great quote "In a week he can't get that fat."

He didn't act alone.

I'm 100% sure of it.

I believe he acted alone.

My best evidence? No letters or SOS killings after his arrest.

But what about the differing sketches you say? Wigs.

But what about the witness testimony? Eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable.

I also believe that in the 36 years since 1977 some indictments would have come down if the authorities felt there was any merit to the various accomplice theories.

IIRC, one witness in the segment said Berkowitz was not the man he saw shooting the couple in the parked car. Plus, the composite sketches look like 4-5 different men, so I don't think he acted alone.
As much as ''satanic panic'' is blamed for being a red herring, I think that Berkowitz did not act alone and more than likely these other men were responsible as well. I really believe Tommy Zaino. I doubt you would ever forget seeing somebody shoot other people in front of you and he would have known the girth of the shooter. I think the reason they've never been caught is because the two brothers died in separate incidents, as shown in the segment. Tommy Zaino is probably the most reliable witness of any of the attacks, as he wasn't injured like any of the other surviving witnesses who no doubt would have been taken by surprise and understandably shaken/ distracted/ and focused on their own wounds.

Wigs are one thing, but Berkowitz would have been unable to cover his ''fat'' to such an extent. Also, the lady walking her dog adds some weight to him being right outside the complex. Even if we throw out her testimony, were wigs ever found in his possession? And why would all of the composites show different facial features? I doubt he acted alone.

Wigs are one thing, but Berkowitz would have been unable to cover his ''fat'' to such an extent. Also, the lady walking her dog adds some weight to him being right outside the complex. Even if we throw out her testimony, were wigs ever found in his possession? And why would all of the composites show different facial features? I doubt he acted alone.Yeah, that's what I believe as well. He was not in shape, running from that location to the crime scene is fairly unlikely especially since he would need to run away as well. Not a whole lot of time to plan out victims to shoot. But if he was the lookout, then it makes more sense.

As for the letters stopping, well, Berkowitz was caught and taking the fall. Why would they risk getting exposed would they could just move on to a new territory? If the Carr brothers were involved, then that's precisely what happened.

Here's the thing guys, theories are fine. However, there isn't one of evidence to prove involvement of anyone other than Berkowitz. Eyewitnesses are fine when there is corroborating evidence and to the best of my knowledge, there is none.

The weapon used in all of the shootings was the same .44 caliber bulldog that belonged to Berkowitz. Ballistics tests matched the weapon to all of the shootings/murders.

Read the ultimate evil by Maury Terry and then talk about the case. The investigators and even the district attorney in queens suspected he had several accomplices. There is absolutely no question that Berky did not act alone.

He didn't act alone. This is one case that UM nailed on the head. I'm surprised that more credence hasn't been given by the general public to Maury Terry's theories on the killings but perhaps all these years after the case and with Berkowitz safely locked behind bars, people would like to think of the case as a closed issue.

While I'm not saying it's impossible that Berkowitz acted alone in the SOS killings, I think the evidence paints a far different story and furthermore I believe that if several other members of Berkowitz's inner circle did not perish in the years after the SOS killings took place we might be living with a different reality today as far as the case goes. I believe there would've eventually been more killings even after the capture of Berkowitz.

While I'm not saying it's impossible that Berkowitz acted alone in the SOS killings, I think the evidence paints a far different story and furthermore I believe that if several other members of Berkowitz's inner circle did not perish in the years after the SOS killings took place we might be living with a different reality today as far as the case goes. I believe there would've eventually been more killings even after the capture of Berkowitz.

And that's the key. Among the known individuals that were in this apparent circle, two are dead and one is incarcerated with a life sentence. That may very well be the reason things have gone rather quiet. Berkowitz was nearly killed himself in prison during an attack by another inmate in 1979, and the circumstances of that event have, to this day, never been clarified.

I want to add that Tommy Zaino is not the only eyewitnesses to a SOS shooting. He was just the only one whose interview was shown in the UM segment. While some witnesses certainly did report the shooter was a man who closely resembled Berkowitz with no one else apparently present, some of them reported completely different descriptions, and sometimes they reported more than one person on the scene.

I also believe that in the 36 years since 1977 some indictments would have come down if the authorities felt there was any merit to the various accomplice theories.

Two of the other suspects died shortly before or after Berkowitz was arrested. This is probably why no indictments have came out. The evidence presented in the UM segment is enough to conclude that the possibility is very high that Berkowitz did not act alone.

Here's the thing guys, theories are fine. However, there isn't one of evidence to prove involvement of anyone other than Berkowitz. Eyewitnesses are fine when there is corroborating evidence and to the best of my knowledge, there is none.

The weapon used in all of the shootings was the same .44 caliber bulldog that belonged to Berkowitz. Ballistics tests matched the weapon to all of the shootings/murders.

This. The Carr brothers weren't choir boys, but there is no strong circumstantial evidence linking them to any of the murders - fingerprints, ballistics. Not even authorship of the letters. The conflicting eyewitness statements are interesting, and there are questions about Cecilia Davis' timing of events, but those kinds of inconsistencies occur in other cases where there is solid evidence of a particular perpetrator.

Terry finds conspiracies under every bush, but I don't think it's impossible that Berkowitz had some interaction with one or both of the Carrs. Still, no one has ever turned up anything other than tenuous connections and rumors that they were involved with him.

The variations in the descriptions of the killer by witnesses seems to make a good case for Berkowitz not acting alone. I've heard some pretty ridiculous claims about the case though, ranging from the idea that his demonic talking dog hallucinations were a result of MK-ULTRA experiments by the government, to the absurd notion that he was a serial killer simply because he was Jewish.

:crazy:

I said they were ridiculous.

This. The Carr brothers weren't choir boys, but there is no strong circumstantial evidence linking them to any of the murders - fingerprints, ballistics. Not even authorship of the letters. The conflicting eyewitness statements are interesting, and there are questions about Cecilia Davis' timing of events, but those kinds of inconsistencies occur in other cases where there is solid evidence of a particular perpetrator.

Terry finds conspiracies under every bush, but I don't think it's impossible that Berkowitz had some interaction with one or both of the Carrs. Still, no one has ever turned up anything other than tenuous connections and rumors that they were involved with him.

Again without accusing the Carrs of anything, I think we'd be looking at this case in a much different light if the members of Berkowitz's inner circle were still among the living.

In my view it's a case of out of sight and out of mind. There isn't going to be any real effort to dredge up anything new out of the SOS case because the authorities have someone who was definitely involved in the murders behind bars and the other people who are viewed as being potential suspects by some people are all dead. I think it comes down to that, cut and dry.

Again without accusing the Carrs of anything, I think we'd be looking at this case in a much different light if the members of Berkowitz's inner circle were still among the living.

In my view it's a case of out of sight and out of mind. There isn't going to be any real effort to dredge up anything new out of the SOS case because the authorities have someone who was definitely involved in the murders behind bars and the other people who are viewed as being potential suspects by some people are all dead. I think it comes down to that, cut and dry.

Well we don't know that for a fact. David Berkowitz has always said that he has feared to name some of the other shooters, because of fear of retaliation against his family. If Berkowitz is to be believed, that means someone is still alive if he fears that. Of course many people don't believe Berkowitz and his credibility, despite the fact he claims to be a born again Christian is questionable looking at it from a purely neutral stand point. I am inclined to think he is telling the truth, but I can understand people being skeptical of him. The justification for that is certainly there.

But from eveything I've read, I believe the shooter of Staci Moscowitts is still alive and at large, because her mother asked Berkowitz to reveal his name, and the mother on a TV show awhile back revealed that she no longer believed the shooter was Berkowitz. Berkowitz was apologetic to the mother but told her he couldn't reveal the name due to fear of retaliation. So the Carr brothers being dead he would not fear them. Plus you have a witness who swears the Moscowitts shooter was not Berkowitz.

So given all the facts, I think its entirely feasible that at least one Son of Sam killer is still alive, and possibly more.

For all we know, there may very well have been a cult leader who played a Charles Manson like role and masterminded the murders as well.



Da

One of the Son of Sam composite Sketches does bear a striking resemblance to Sam Carr. :eek: