I;m patiently waiting for the Fall Preview to come in the mail because I want to read about all the new shows and decide on what I want to sample and watch.

Any other TV guide fall preview readers in 2012?

To be completely honest, I'm surprised TV Guide hasn't ceased publication by now.

Not me.I have zero interest in new shows or contemporary so called actors and actresses.Plus TV Guide magazine is nothing like it used to be, it's just a cheap tabloid rag.(No offense to anyone that still reads it.)--I used to love reading TV Guide every week because it used to be such a good magazine.Plus of course back then I was interested the programs,actors,actresses and so on.Aside from a quick glance maybe once or twice,I have not even looked at TV Guide magazine in over 15 years.

Not me.I have zero interest in new shows or contemporary so called actors and actresses.Plus TV Guide magazine is nothing like it used to be, it's just a cheap tabloid rag.(No offense to anyone that still reads it.)--I used to love reading TV Guide every week because it used to be such a good magazine.Plus of course back then I was interested the programs,actors,actresses and so on.Aside from a quick glance maybe once or twice,I have not even looked at TV Guide magazine in over 15 years.


It's still has the same stories just a bigger version. My grandmom stopped reading when they changed from the small version to the bigger version in 2004

To be completely honest, I'm surprised TV Guide hasn't ceased publication by now.


They still have a lot of readers based on the questions that are sent in and answered in the book.

I dont read it. To me, the price of the magazine expanded but the content didnt. I dont see how the magazine is worth the price. If you had the money to spend, thats fine but from what I've seen, its no where near the magazine it used to be.

I dont read it. To me, the price of the magazine expanded but the content didnt. I dont see how the magazine is worth the price. If you had the money to spend, thats fine but from what I've seen, its no where near the magazine it used to be.


It's a lot cheaper when you sign up for a subscription but very high when you buy it from the news stand

I do! It's the ONLY TV Guide I read all year... it's mostly for sentimental reasons as I have every Fall Preview guide back to 1995. So I'll keep buying that one issue until they stop publishing them!

I do! It's the ONLY TV Guide I read all year... it's mostly for sentimental reasons as I have every Fall Preview guide back to 1995. So I'll keep buying that one issue until they stop publishing them!


I;m thinking the Fall Preview should be the next issue which is Sep 10-16 Issue
or it maybe a double issue and be from Sept 10-23

I hate the TV Guide Magazine! I always looked forward to getting the little TV Guides and I would read it from beginning to end, especially the fall previews. I actually used to watch new shows on the big networks before they went to trash. When I first got the "magazine", it only showed listings from 8pm to maybe midnight?? I didn't like that at all and cancelled my subscription and haven't bought one since. I also liked that they used to have all the movies in the back that you could read about. Course that was before I had the internet! If they would ever go back to the way it was, I'd buy it again.

I hate the TV Guide Magazine! I always looked forward to getting the little TV Guides and I would read it from beginning to end, especially the fall previews. I actually used to watch new shows on the big networks before they went to trash. When I first got the "magazine", it only showed listings from 8pm to maybe midnight?? I didn't like that at all and cancelled my subscription and haven't bought one since. I also liked that they used to have all the movies in the back that you could read about. Course that was before I had the internet! If they would ever go back to the way it was, I'd buy it again.


i like that is very COLORFUL unlike the smaller one. I do remember the movie section though.

I'm glad they still have "Cheers and Jeers"

Don't bother with it. TV sucks now days anyways. So, why should I care and read critics opinions about another craptastic TV season.

I'm waiting for mine to get delivered. It's the best issue that TV Guide has anymore.

I'm waiting for mine to get delivered. It's the best issue that TV Guide has anymore.

Hopefully it's this week

I still get mine every week! I love the Cheers and Jeers section.

I still get mine every week! I love the Cheers and Jeers section.


Yes when they eliminate that section that's when I will cancel my subscription:lol: :lol:

My room-mate Kenneth Merle died 2 years ago and he had a 3 year subscription to TV Guide. When it runs out I may continue to subscribe if it is cheap enough and to keep the postal workers employed.

Jeers to people who bring politics to a message board about TV.

Years ago my grandparents had a subscription to TV Guide and I read it from cover to cover. I enjoyed the Fall Previews they used to do and I think I still have a couple of old Guides in the house. But after my grandmother died, we cancelled the subscription. I haven't read one in years and since I watch so few shows, it's not worth it for me to get it.

It's still has the same stories just a bigger version. My grandmom stopped reading when they changed from the small version to the bigger version in 2004
I did not even know they changed it into a bigger version until a few weeks ago when I saw it at the store.I was not even tempted to look at it.--Another thing that ALSO ruined TV Guide is the fact that they list the programming on a lot of the cable channels too.It's just too much.It used to be such an easy, friendly magazine to read and look at the days programming back when they just listed the programs on the big 3 networks,PBS and maybe a couple of local channels.

I did not even know they changed it into a bigger version until a few weeks ago when I saw it at the store.I was not even tempted to look at it.--Another thing that ALSO ruined TV Guide is the fact that they list the programming on a lot of the cable channels too.It's just too much.It used to be such an easy, friendly magazine to read and look at the days programming back when they just listed the programs on the big 3 networks,PBS and maybe a couple of local channels.


TV guide has always listed the program schedule for cable Tv dating all the way back to 1992. Of course they couldn't do it in 1982 because it wasn't that many cable channels

Don't bother with it. TV sucks now days anyways. So, why should I care and read critics opinions about another craptastic TV season.

:yeahthat

It's sad that I'd rather watch DVDs of old tv shows that I've seen dozens of times than episodes of new shows I've never seen before. :lol:

I thought television was pretty bad 10 years ago, but I actually miss those days compared to now. I hate to think of what television will be like in 10 years. :eek:

:yeahthat

It's sad that I'd rather watch DVDs of old tv shows that I've seen dozens of times than episodes of new shows I've never seen before. :lol:

I thought television was pretty bad 10 years ago, but I actually miss those days compared to now. I hate to think of what television will be like in 10 years. :eek:


Well atleast sample some of the new shows after you read what the show is about. That's how I started watching some of the newer shows

Jeers to people who bring politics to a message board about TV.
I'm not going to go way off topic, but you're obviously talking to me. I've looked at the rules, and I'm not breaking any. I'm sorry if expressing my views somehow offends you.

Since the guide was enlarged I don't enjoy TV guide like I did. It is more like a People magazine. I do read the guide once and it sits on the counter. With a cable service that gives me a listing of shows, the Tv Guide is somewhat obsolete for me. This fall season of shows issue will probably be my last. My subscription will expire in spring of 2013 and I plan not to renew. The reps give me great discounts but the guide just isn't what it used to be. Everything changes. It will be a bit sad for I have stored in my bedroom every fall issue since 1969. The Brady Bunch was listed that year.

Since the guide was enlarged I don't enjoy TV guide like I did. It is more like a People magazine. I do read the guide once and it sits on the counter. With a cable service that gives me a listing of shows, the Tv Guide is somewhat obsolete for me. This fall season of shows issue will probably be my last. My subscription will expire in spring of 2013 and I plan not to renew. The reps give me great discounts but the guide just isn't what it used to be. Everything changes. It will be a bit sad for I have stored in my bedroom every fall issue since 1969. The Brady Bunch was listed that year.


I thought this week's issue would be the fall preview but I was wrong. Maybe next week? Sept 17-23?

I still get mine every week! I love the Cheers and Jeers section.

Me too. I like magazines in general, and TV Guide is still fun for me to read.

Me too. I like magazines in general, and TV Guide is still fun for me to read.


Fun and Colorful and Informative:wave:

Fun and Colorful and Informative:wave:
I'm sure the TV Guide Fall preview is out this week. The Entertainment Weekly preview is available now. EW says these are the best new shows:

Nashville (ABC)
Ben And Kate (FOX)
Elementary (CBS)
Last Resort (ABC)
The Mindy Project (FOX)

I'm sure the TV Guide Fall preview is out this week. The Entertainment Weekly preview is available now. EW says these are the best new shows:

Nashville (ABC)
Ben And Kate (FOX)
Elementary (CBS)
Last Resort (ABC)
The Mindy Project (FOX)


Yeah I;m thinking the Fall Preview will be the Sept 17-30 Issue. I expect it to be a double issue and be delivered on Wed of this week

well i never read a tv guide , i don't know what is the use of that , every thing or every function is similar and everybody knows how to operate that.

well i never read a tv guide , i don't know what is the use of that , every thing or every function is similar and everybody knows how to operate that.


Purpose of TV guide

1. Read news about your favorite shows

2. Read latest news about TV ratings

3. Read letters from readers about certain shows

4. Read Cheers and Jeers

5. Sports TV schedule for sports fans

6. Cable TV news

Not me.I have zero interest in new shows or contemporary so called actors and actresses.

Don't bother with it. TV sucks now days anyways. So, why should I care and read critics opinions about another craptastic TV season.


IJ_R-G_i4Xk

:yeahthat

It's sad that I'd rather watch DVDs of old tv shows that I've seen dozens of times than episodes of new shows I've never seen before.
So how do you know current TV is so terrible if you refuse to watch any of it? Sounds to me like you're just blindly hating it for the sake of hating it. But whatever floats your boat, man.

Anyway, pretty much all of the things you listed, Solomon, can be done easier and faster on the internet, but I can see wanting to keep reading it for nostalgic purposes.

IJ_R-G_i4Xk


So how do you know current TV is so terrible if you refuse to watch any of it? Sounds to me like you're just blindly hating it for the sake of hating it. But whatever floats your boat, man.

Anyway, pretty much all of the things you listed, Solomon, can be done easier and faster on the internet, but I can see wanting to keep reading it for nostalgic purposes.


I knew understood why but I rather read a magazine or newspaper in print rather than on the internet. I still enjoy flipping pages and not knowing what to expect as I move through the magazine or newspaper

IJ_R-G_i4Xk


So how do you know current TV is so terrible if you refuse to watch any of it? Sounds to me like you're just blindly hating it for the sake of hating it. But whatever floats your boat, man.

Have you watched network tv lately? It is terrible. Now it's wrong to say it's all bad, but 90%, IMO, is garbage. I watch and I sample here and there, and there's hardly anything that impresses me or makes me want to watch the show again. I watch 2-3 shows regularly on network tv nowadays. Compared to ten years ago when I'd watch 15-20 shows regularly, that's nothing. I used to look forward to checking out most of the new sitcoms when they premiered, but over time, it became a huge chore because most of it was disappointing and a waste of time. It especially sucks when you start to like a show and it gets canceled. I can't tell you the number of times this has happened to me. There's 2 new shows I'll check out this season and I'd be willing to bet they won't last an entire season, sadly.

Purpose of TV guide

1. Read news about your favorite shows

2. Read latest news about TV ratings

3. Read letters from readers about certain shows

4. Read Cheers and Jeers

5. Sports TV schedule for sports fans

6. Cable TV news


Do you think that is somewhat passe? I say that because you can find your info. online and other magazines now. I dont think there sports schedule is that great, at least at the time I used to buy it. Maybe Im wrong.

Do you think that is somewhat passe? I say that because you can find your info. online and other magazines now. I dont think there sports schedule is that great, at least at the time I used to buy it. Maybe Im wrong.



I'm not sure if you can find all that information on tvguide.com but if you can I',m shocked that the magazine is still around

Yeah As I say everything changes. I was watching one of the morning news type shows, might have been Good Morning America and the upcoming events were how Jessica Simpson looks now and Miley Cyrus. I thought is this the best news of the year. Who in the heck really cares.

Yeah As I say everything changes. I was watching one of the morning news type shows, might have been Good Morning America and the upcoming events were how Jessica Simpson looks now and Miley Cyrus. I thought is this the best news of the year. Who in the heck really cares.


Jessica Simpson was looking extra hot but I was half sleep-LOL

TVFactFan, I was half asleep as well. Did she lose her baby weight yet?

TVFactFan, I was half asleep as well. Did she lose her baby weight yet?


Not sure I do remember one of the GMA hosts asking her to do something and she responded with a attitude-lol

Have you watched network tv lately? It is terrible. Now it's wrong to say it's all bad, but 90%, IMO, is garbage. I watch and I sample here and there, and there's hardly anything that impresses me or makes me want to watch the show again. I watch 2-3 shows regularly on network tv nowadays. Compared to ten years ago when I'd watch 15-20 shows regularly, that's nothing. I used to look forward to checking out most of the new sitcoms when they premiered, but over time, it became a huge chore because most of it was disappointing and a waste of time. It especially sucks when you start to like a show and it gets canceled. I can't tell you the number of times this has happened to me. There's 2 new shows I'll check out this season and I'd be willing to bet they won't last an entire season, sadly.
I watch a lot of TV and it's my opinion that we're in one of the strongest time periods of TV ever, but...opinions! :)

Maybe TV doesn't suck nowadays. Maybe some people are just getting old. Popular culture changes, but people don't. And sometimes it moves too fast for our tastes to keep up. Stick with what you prefer, but don't slam what a new generation is putting out. Plenty of it, if you broaden your horizons, is very well done.

The Fall Preview is out this week. I got mine this morning.

Maybe TV doesn't suck nowadays. Maybe some people are just getting old. Popular culture changes, but people don't. And sometimes it moves too fast for our tastes to keep up. Stick with what you prefer, but don't slam what a new generation is putting out. Plenty of it, if you broaden your horizons, is very well done.

That could be it, I feel old whenever I watch a show like the one I saw last night. It was one of those single camera comedies you guys are always raving about and what happened? Well some girl was in the tub and I don't have to tell you what happened and her roommate walks in and catches her. If this is considered the new sophisticated stuff you're talking about, then yes I am old. It's just not for me. I'm sure it would have made me laugh when I was 13, but today, I find it offensive and disgusting.

Some of the best television shows of all time, including the greatest show of all time (I'm referring, of course, to Breaking Bad) are being made today. Sure, there are some turds out there, but that's true of every era in television history. This truly is the golden age of television.

The Fall Preview is out this week. I got mine this morning.


I;m jealous....:( :(


LOL, I thought it would be in my mailbox today but maybe tomorrow. If push comes to shove I will have to go and buy it at the Amtrak station on Saturday:lol:

Mine arrived on Tuesday. First impression: It's not the monster sized issue it used to be.

Mine arrived on Tuesday. First impression: It's not the monster sized issue it used to be.
They don't have the shows set up by day like they used to. Now they have the top 10 new shows in the front and then the rest. I like the old way better.

There are some good shows on tv and I watch a lot of them but over all tv isn't as good. You really have to program your DVR to cut out all the trash. I barely watch any show live anymore. In the old days I'd watch one show after another and many times on the same network. There were classic shows that I couldn't watch until summer because they were scheduled opposite great shows. I can't consider this a great era when you have a network airing a singing competition 3 times in a week and a couple of other networks airing other reality shows twice a week. Get rid of all the reality or at least cut it down and then I might agree. I watch CBS more than any network and although I like a lot of their shows, there is a sameness about them. Most of their shows are crime shows. In the old days even they had more variety. Cable does have some good dramas...Homeland, Breaking Bad, Dexter, Justified, The Closer etc but their networks as a whole aren't as good as they used to be. It's just my opinion though.

There are some good shows on tv and I watch a lot of them but over all tv isn't as good. You really have to program your DVR to cut out all the trash. I barely watch any show live anymore. In the old days I'd watch one show after another and many times on the same network. There were classic shows that I couldn't watch until summer because they were scheduled opposite great shows. I can't consider this a great era when you have a network airing a singing competition 3 times in a week and a couple of other networks airing other reality shows twice a week. Get rid of all the reality or at least cut it down and then I might agree.
You want to know why there's so much reality now? Because now cable offers about 23592305230423 channels and they have to fill them up with something, and reality is a lot cheaper to make while still bringing in decent ratings. You have to search harder for quality but that doesn't mean there isn't just as much of it out there. It's just spread out over more channels.

Plus again, like I said, tastes change. Just because it isn't your cup of tea per say doesn't mean it isn't any good. You tend to be more accepting of the KIND of shows out there when you're younger. You develop a taste for that kind of programming. Then, when things change, you stay the same and you don't like it. That's why the older you get the harder it is to appreciate what's out there. It's not a bad thing, it just is what it is. I just get a little frustrated that many older people out there are calling most TV today crap because as a younger person who wants to make a career in television someday, it's unnerving. I have the capability to produce just as much quality as someone 30 years ago had. And so do the people out there who are doing it right now. I don't like all the reality as much as the next person, but let's face it...there's a lot less of it now than there was ten years ago. Sitcoms are coming back. Look at all of them they're crapping up on all the cable shows. A lot of them are stupid, but there are still a lot of great things out there - and catering to a wider range of tastes, too.

You want to know why there's so much reality now? Because now cable offers about 23592305230423 channels and they have to fill them up with something, and reality is a lot cheaper to make while still bringing in decent ratings. You have to search harder for quality but that doesn't mean there isn't just as much of it out there. It's just spread out over more channels.

Plus again, like I said, tastes change. Just because it isn't your cup of tea per say doesn't mean it isn't any good. You tend to be more accepting of the KIND of shows out there when you're younger. You develop a taste for that kind of programming. Then, when things change, you stay the same and you don't like it. That's why the older you get the harder it is to appreciate what's out there. It's not a bad thing, it just is what it is. I just get a little frustrated that many older people out there are calling most TV today crap because as a younger person who wants to make a career in television someday, it's unnerving. I have the capability to produce just as much quality as someone 30 years ago had. And so do the people out there who are doing it right now. I don't like all the reality as much as the next person, but let's face it...there's a lot less of it now than there was ten years ago. Sitcoms are coming back. Look at all of them they're crapping up on all the cable shows. A lot of them are stupid, but there are still a lot of great things out there - and catering to a wider range of tastes, too.
You're fast. I edited my post a little bit. lol I do get where you are coming from. You are probably right. Different generations are going to like different things. The kind of shows I liked when I was young are probably gone forever. There are quality shows out there. I do watch a lot of them. You just have to look for them. Good luck Ashlee. I wish you all the best. :)

You're fast. I edited my post a little bit. lol I do get where you are coming from. You are probably right. Different generations are going to like different things. The kind of shows I liked when I was young are probably gone forever. There are quality shows out there. I do watch a lot of them. You just have to look for them. Good luck Ashlee. I wish you all the best. :)
Thank you. :)

TV is a different landscape than the '70s. It's hard to compare a time where there were 3 or 4 channels to a time where there are 1000+. Like Ashlee said, reality is cheap, hence why there's so much of it. But if you were to remove all of the reality crap, I think TV today is really just about the same quality as it was back in the "good old days"...if not better, like Brad said. Some of the greatest TV shows ever are being made right now.

Check my mail today and no f*cking TV Guide so now I have to get up and leave my apartment and go to the train station so I can buy the fall preview.

My plan was to stay in the house all day not go out and buy a tv guide.


Unnecessary aggravation. Already stressed from having no job and can't even open a mailbox and see a fall preview inside of it.

I cannot believe that a TV Guide in 2012 cost...........$5.39:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:



That is the last f*cking TV Guide I will buy, if I experience this in the future I will just do without

You know I felt the sameway. I was going to buy the magazine but I looked and it was 4.99!! Thats a bit much.

You know I felt the sameway. I was going to buy the magazine but I looked and it was 4.99!! Thats a bit much.


I never even looked at the price because I assumed it was $2.99, had no idea it was 5 dollars

I never even looked at the price because I assumed it was $2.99, had no idea it was 5 dollars
The price is ridiculous anymore. It was 60 cents when I first started buying it.

The price is ridiculous anymore. It was 60 cents when I first started buying it.


That price took a HUGE LEAP FROG because I swear it was just $2.99 LOL

That's ridiculous. I bet TV Guide will no longer exist as a print magazine in five years.

That's ridiculous. I bet TV Guide will no longer exist as a print magazine in five years.


The cashier was acted like she never seen a TV Guide before like it was something ancient:lol:

The cashier was acted like she never seen a TV Guide before like it was something ancient:lol:
That's sad. I used to devour TV Guide every week. I fell out of love with it around the time they started downsizing their listings (before they went from digest to full-sized) and never looked back.

But for about fifteen years, I was all about "new TV Guide day."

I have a 1959 TV Guide that cost 15 cents. The 1997 Fall Preview had 320 pages and cost $1.49.

I have a 1959 TV Guide that cost 15 cents. The 1997 Fall Preview had 320 pages and cost $1.49.


And the 2012 Fall Preview has 84 pages and cost $5.39:lol:

That's ridiculous. I bet TV Guide will no longer exist as a print magazine in five years.
I wouldn't be surprised. It's sad. TV Guide is an institution. It started going down for me when they quit printing the local listings.

I wouldn't be surprised. It's sad. TV Guide is an institution. It started going down for me when they quit printing the local listings.
Yeah. To expand on what I said earlier, I stopped reading it when, in a downsizing effort, they dissolved the "Spokane Edition" into an "Eastern Washington" edition." That was about a year before they abandoned local listings altogether.

I really miss the old TVGuide I have the new edition but it's not the same.

I collect the fall issue of TV Guides. I thought it might to fun to hold on the issues. I have now have issues going back to 1969. They were a bit easier to store in the smaller size. It is fun to look back on shows, advertisements, and actors, of times gone by. Yes the newest issue is $4.99. I wonder just what years the prices increased. 15 cents in the 1950's .

I enjoy reading the TV Guide Fall Preview issue, it gives you a nice overview of the shows. I don't always agree with that Matt Roush who reviews the shows though. And as they say, different strokes for different folks.

I'm reading now and it's only one show I have interest in sampling. I hope that changes in the next 10 minutes LOL

I'm reading now and it's only one show I have interest in sampling. I hope that changes in the next 10 minutes LOL


Maybe you'll find more than one show that interests you. The new comedies seem a little lackluster but a couple of the dramas sound interesting, especially that 666 Park Avenue.

Maybe you'll find more than one show that interests you. The new comedies seem a little lackluster but a couple of the dramas sound interesting, especially that 666 Park Avenue.


You maybe right because last season was a big one for the comedies

Well all the new comedies seem to be family comedies so I won't be watching any of them.

So the only new show I will be watching is the one with Matthew Perry

That's sad. I used to devour TV Guide every week. I fell out of love with it around the time they started downsizing their listings (before they went from digest to full-sized) and never looked back.

But for about fifteen years, I was all about "new TV Guide day."me too when i was a kid i could not wait for the new tv guide to come out

I skimmed through the TV Guide in the grocery store today and I wasnt that impressed with it. I mean there really isnt a point to it anymore when you have internet at your disposal.


I, too, liked the old version better. I dont want to hear that times change and all that. Bottom line is that they try to compete with In Style, People etc. If you dont believe me, look at the design of TV Guide now compared to before? Its also very light as well. I mean mentioned in this post was how many pages the old fall editions were. The Fall editions are very light now.

I skimmed through the TV Guide in the grocery store today and I wasnt that impressed with it. I mean there really isnt a point to it anymore when you have internet at your disposal.


I, too, liked the old version better. I dont want to hear that times change and all that. Bottom line is that they try to compete with In Style, People etc. If you dont believe me, look at the design of TV Guide now compared to before? Its also very light as well. I mean mentioned in this post was how many pages the old fall editions were. The Fall editions are very light now.


I noticed that too and kind of pissed that I was $5.39 on the issue

I thought the Fall Preview covered the New shows and returning shows???



On this issue it says nothing about another Fall preview coming out

I noticed that too and kind of pissed that I was $5.39 on the issue

I thought the Fall Preview covered the New shows and returning shows???



On this issue it says nothing about another Fall preview coming out
They usually do the returning shows on the next issue. I would expect it to be in next week's tv guide. They don't advertise next week's tv guide in the magazine like they used to.

They usually do the returning shows on the next issue. I would expect it to be in next week's tv guide. They don't advertise next week's tv guide in the magazine like they used to.


But I don't need to see it now because some of the returning shows are starting this coming week:lol: :lol: Like the Office, it starts on 9/20 and that issue would be 9/24-9/30:lol:

But I don't need to see it now because some of the returning shows are starting this coming week:lol: :lol: Like the Office, it starts on 9/20 and that issue would be 9/24-9/30:lol:
Yea I think they're a week late this year. I think they usually started their fall preview edition on labor day week. lol

Yea I think they're a week late this year. I think they usually started their fall preview edition on labor day week. lol


Just saw it on Page 2 of this week's issue of TV Guide that that next week's issue will cover the returning shows. So you are right it is a week late

Just saw it on Page 2 of this week's issue of TV Guide that that next week's issue will cover the returning shows. So you are right it is a week late

but the season is a week later too... last year, the official start to the season was Sep 19. This year it is Sep 24.

but the season is a week later too... last year, the official start to the season was Sep 19. This year it is Sep 24.


It will feel so funny reading about the next season of the Office after seeing the 1st episode. Maybe I should just record it and watch it after the preview:lol:

I skim through it, I only watch Fringe so I pick up a tidbit here or their.

It's not totally useless though.