I am entranced by the more macabre serial killers and their motives. I find spree killers to be shallow that kill purely for the rush of excitement to escape the boredom of suburbia. There are a few individuals, that are on a path all their own. They do not follow the media, or do things to place them in the spotlight of the press. They do things to please their own agenda. It could be for reasons such as loneliness, pain or art to name a few. Such cases that come to mind are the The Eastbound Strangler or Dahmer. Unsolved Mysteries has at times played a role in larger cases in history as well as the smaller ones.
Which cases do you feel are a small piece in a larger puzzle that were clearly murder?

When it comes to cases of this nature, I put aside all the remarks and feelings of family and friends of the deceased. Rather, I pay attention to the physical evidence presented in the segment:

Chad Langford-the fact that the two bullets from his gun were supposedly never found leads me to believe there was someone else at the scene. I think he was ambushed and the scene was rearranged by the perpetrators to look like a suicide. I heard somewhere that the army has since reopened the investigation citing new leads; maybe it was new evidence at the scene which came to light.

Norman Ladner-again, evidence at the scene. Enough said.

Christi Nichols-there was blood evidence if I recall correctly. I still don't see why they can't put that POS Mark away. Dennis Smith was convicted on blood evidence alone despite Caroline Killaby never being found.

Blair Adams-maybe he was running from an imaginary threat of some kind. But the cause of death and condition of his body indicates to me that he was murdered. Maybe the delusions he suffered made him vulnerable and put him in a dangerous position.

agree about Blair.also wendy camp and family.

Any of the ones that the police covered up and where the husbands are clearly guilty. So many to name but Wendy Camp, Christi Jo Nichols, Tommy Burkett, Tony Lombardi, Andre Jones, Jayson Artis, Keith Warren, Kathy Page and many others come to mind.

Doug Johnston/Danny Casalero/Chuck Morgan
Norman Ladner
Boys on the Tracks
Joyce Chiang
Wendy Camp, her daughter, and her sister-in-law

Some "Unexplained Deaths" that I believe were clearly murder:

-Scott Johnson/his unnamed friend
-Dave Bocks
-Keith Warren
-Don Henry/Kevin Ives
-Steve Sandlin
-Crystal Spencer
-Jeffrey Digman
-Norman Ladner
-Russell Evans
-Chad Maurer
-Tommy Burkett

-Wendy Camp
-Tommy Burkett
-Dave Bocks

~ I cant seem to remember the Lombardi case and I've seen this case mentioned a few times. Can someone refresh my memory please?

Scott Johnson and Peter Hill - the two small boys who were burned alive in an abandoned shed in Bullhead City, Arizona.

Scott Johnson and Peter Hill - the two small boys who were burned alive in an abandoned shed in Bullhead City, Arizona.


Was that the other boys name? Peter Hill? I remember they never mentioned it on UM

Here were some of the ones that definitely stood out to me:

Pam Page
Jim Rice
Christi Nichols
Doreen Marfeo
Kevin Ives and Don Henry
Wendy Camp and company
Kathy Bonderson
Ed Baker

Was that the other boys name? Peter Hill? I remember they never mentioned it on UM

Yes, Peter Hill. Perhaps his name was not mentioned because he was a minor and UM would have required permission of the family or perhaps it was left out of the broadcast out of respect for the family who did not want to participate.

Others who I felt were murdered:

- Tara Calico
- Charles Horvath
- Dale Kerstetter
- Nyleen Kay Marshall

~ I cant seem to remember the Lombardi case and I've seen this case mentioned a few times. Can someone refresh my memory please?

Tony's mother Cheryl, while in bed, heard a door closing. Believing that her son, Tony, had just returned home she went to his room and found him dead from a gunshot wound to the head.

She had earlier noticed that Tony's bedroom light was not turned on (under the door), yet it was on when she found his body.

He was apparently a bit of "a hit with the ladies" and 'a player,' and had been recently caught drink-driving, encouraging the police to rule the incident a suicide.

It was suspected that the killer had been trapped in his bedroom when Cheryl arrived home, and the murderer sneaked out after it was believed that she had gone to bed.

http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Tony_Lombardi

Hope that helps, Amanda! :)

Oliver Munson, Wendy Camp and company, Christi Nichols, Scott Johnson and his friend, Gus Hoffman, Amy Billig, Pam Page, Kathy Bonderson, Norman Ladner, Don Henry/Kevin Ives, Charlotte Pollis, Russell Evans, Crystal Spencer.

Kurt Cobain - Obvs murder i am a big Nirvana fan and i know Kurt was murdered

As for others

Tommy Burkett
Jeffrey Digman
Wendy Camp
Danny Casolero
Dale Kerstetter
Pam Page
Jean Moore

Here are some less clear, debated ones that I think are definitely homicides:

-Jeffrey Digman
-Michael O'Mara
-Steve Sandlin
-Dale Kerstetter
-Chuck Morgan
-Danny Williams (I used to think this was a suicide, then changed my mind after considering the blood evidence and the final position of the gun)
-Rae Ann Mossor
-Chad Langford

Here are some I think were homicides, but don't accept the main theory UM presented on who committed them and/or why they were committed:

-Norman Ladner
-Tommy Burkett

Here are some I think actually were suicides:

-Danny Casolaro
-Tony Lombardi
-Mike Carmichael and Billy Ray Hargrove

And I think these were accidents:

-Keith Reinhard
-Kurt McFall
-Don Kemp

The big one that stands out to me is Norman Ladner.

I agree with Meg though, I am not sure if their theory was correct but it was *possible*.

the most obvious one to me is the case with the woman and her sister in law and her daughter were taking by her ex husbands family home.

they claimed to drop her off at a walmart parking lot or store parking lot. But she had m.s and could barley walk far. Also she had her daughter with her, i never got how they could be that callice. There was so much circumstancial evidence in that case, it baffled me why no one in the family was charged at that time.

but news came out a few months ago, that the family was involved. just the way the mother of the ex husband was speaking. she was complaing about, her ex daughter in law was 'bitching'. Well of course, what did you expect, the family prevented her from seeing her own kids because of her genetic disease!

not sure about the divorce, but it certainly sounded like he divorced her because he didn't want to go to the hosp. everyday, nor take care of her.And didn't want to take the kids to see her for some b.s reason, that made me really pissed off as a physically disabled person.

My vote would go for Charlie Anderson. Unsolved Mysteries classified it as "Unexplained Death", but it's definitely a murder.

Here are some I think were homicides, but don't accept the main theory UM presented on who committed them and/or why they were committed:

-Norman Ladner
-Tommy Burkett



That's interesting. Who and what do you think was the motive behind Norman Ladner's death? I've always leaned more towards suicide than the theory presented. Never really gave much thought to an alternative murder theory. I really think the drug deal/drop theory is overplayed on a lot of cases. Wonder if it's something like the satanic cult theory - a product of the times and the 80s war on drugs and all that.

As for the topic, I agree with others that Dave Bocks was definitely murdered. I agree Crystal Spencer was probably murdered but its less clear to me. The only evidence for it are the screams that couple were said to have heard. But in articles I read, another neighbor characterized the sounds as someone being sick and he heard them much earlier in the day than they did (that would be a long period of time for the killer to be torturing her). And she called her sister saying she was too sick to get to the bathroom. The other aspects of the scene have possible explanations as well - she was said to not have been a tidy person which could explain the disarray the home was found in and was said to have left the phone off the hook before. Plus she could have been naked from the waist down for other reasons - in the process of changing, having soiled her bottoms, felt too hot from fever or something, etc.

That's interesting. Who and what do you think was the motive behind Norman Ladner's death?

There are two theories I have on it: the first being a hunting accident in which Ladner was accidentally shot by another hunter, and the second being Ladner in fact being killed by people who didn't want to be seen, but perhaps not for the reasons cited in the segment.

Some "Unexplained Deaths" that I believe were clearly murder:

-Scott Johnson/his unnamed friend
-Dave Bocks
-Keith Warren
-Don Henry/Kevin Ives
-Steve Sandlin
-Crystal Spencer
-Jeffrey Digman
-Norman Ladner
-Russell Evans
-Chad Maurer
-Tommy Burkett

The thing with Crystal Spencer is we'll never know. In the segment they said she grew a few inches and gained weight. This can easily be explained by LA's coroner office mistakenly tagging the wrong body at the morgue. Simple as that. With that being said, which tag ended up on her and what was the real cause of death?

Far more likely to have been homicide, rather than suicide or accidental: Leroy Drieth, Rae Ann Mosser, and Robert Hamrick.

Ted Loseff's and Mario Amado's suicides both were suspicious. Debbie Wolfe's case was ruled a drowning but seemingly wasn't investigated as well as it could have been.

I don't believe that either Sandra Orellana's or Michelle Witherall's falls were accidents. Jack Davis could have died from falling in the stairwell, but Cyril Wecht raised some valid questions about how and where he could have sustained the injuries (I don't think his death was a homicide).

There are two theories I have on it: the first being a hunting accident in which Ladner was accidentally shot by another hunter, and the second being Ladner in fact being killed by people who didn't want to be seen, but perhaps not for the reasons cited in the segment.I agree with this, either are possible. But I don't see suicide because the gun he had was not the one that shot him- the bullet had to come from someone else.

There are two theories I have on it: the first being a hunting accident in which Ladner was accidentally shot by another hunter, and the second being Ladner in fact being killed by people who didn't want to be seen, but perhaps not for the reasons cited in the segment.

It does seem a little more plausible than suicide. Not that teens don't kill themselves, it just seemed a little odd.

I agree with this, either are possible. But I don't see suicide because the gun he had was not the one that shot him- the bullet had to come from someone else.


I don't remember that part. I'll have to re-watch it.

I must be in the small minority because I never got a homicide vibe in the Rae Ann Mossor case. I say this for several reasons.

-Nobody has an apparent motive to kill Rae Ann except for Rae Ann herself. Yes her and her boyfriend were arguing, but he dumped her. Was finished with her. She, on the other hand, would have a motive and 3 people even said she threatened suicide literally minutes before she was actually shot to death. I don't think that's a mere coincidence.

-If the boyfriend had some huge hole in his story, changed his story, was known to have lied about the situation, or anything else that made him look guilty, then we might have a different case on our hands. But there's nothing that points to him. Not even an eyewitness account that even places him on the street. There's nothing.

-This occured on a street where there were a significant number of potential eyewitnesses around. It's probably safe to assume nobody saw the actual shooting of Rae Ann, but people must have heard the shot and looked out their windows soon after. Did anyone see the boyfriend fleeing the scene? No. And if he shot Rae Ann, his fingerprints would be on that gun. If there's a case to be made against the boyfriend, we would have to know it was either his gun and/or his fingerprints were on it. We still have nothing.

-Most of the arguments being made against suicide center around trajectory, the gun and whether she could have pulled the trigger or not, and things related to that. But all of that is an inexact science. I remember they had an expert on there who was "certain" the gun couldn't go off accidentally because he banged it on the floor about a half dozen times and it didn't go off. MALARKEY! Guns do go off accidentally, said cases have been profiled on UM even. He can't recreate the exact shooting of Rae Ann, so he really has no idea. Rae Ann rigging it does seem unlikely, but I think she may have threw the gun out of frustration and it went off or something to that effect.

-Her parents simply did not put forth a convincing argument. Her mother's statement of "she had too much of my (angry) temprement to commit suicide" never really washed with me. Unless you can get inside someone's head, you have no idea of what they're capable of.

And this hasn't been brought up before, but her radio was BLARING. At the very least, I think we can rule out premeditated murder. I mean, who would kill her and 1) apparently not bring their own weapon, 2) do it in a street full of potential witnesses and 3) do it next to a car with the radio on full blast where you draw all sorts of attention to the scene.

Meh. Suicide or accident.

-Most of the arguments being made against suicide center around trajectory, the gun and whether she could have pulled the trigger or not, and things related to that. But all of that is an inexact science. I remember they had an expert on there who was "certain" the gun couldn't go off accidentally because he banged it on the floor about a half dozen times and it didn't go off. MALARKEY! Guns do go off accidentally, said cases have been profiled on UM even. He can't recreate the exact shooting of Rae Ann, so he really has no idea. Rae Ann rigging it does seem unlikely, but I think she may have threw the gun out of frustration and it went off or something to that effect.

I have always wanted to know:

1. What the make and model of the shotgun was, and in particular if it had more than just a trigger block mechanism serving as safety
2. If the segment accurately depicted the crime scene with the shotgun being on top of the trunk

Her wound also bothers me. Shotgun wounds more readily reveal indications about the distance between the end of the muzzle and the victim, and three pathologists have stated they don't think it was a contact wound. I also just don't see how she could have sustained a non-contact wound squarely in the center of her chest if it was an accident or a suicide.

And this hasn't been brought up before, but her radio was BLARING. At the very least, I think we can rule out premeditated murder.

Definitely agree.

Wow, I always thought I was one of the few who thought Rae Ann's death was accidental or suicide. 3 witnesses described her as near hysterical on the night of her death, and she even made the remark "What do I have to do kill myself?". There was never any clear evidence of murder. Surely someone would have seen the boyfriend or someone else outside struggling with Rae Ann if it indeed did happen. They were screaming at each other, and her stereo was blasting loud.

I always thought most, if not all, of the "suicide or murder" cases were suicides. At the very least UM presented them in a very one-sided manner.

Hold the phone...wiseguy and I actually agree on a case. I'm also convinced Rae Ann Mosser committed suicide.

I always thought most, if not all, of the "suicide or murder" cases were suicides. At the very least UM presented them in a very one-sided manner.

Over the years I've realized how glaring this was. Most of the "unexplained deaths" that were suicides or murders left out plenty of information that would account for suicide, but UM sure did love to play up on the theories of the decedent's families.

My choice here is Robert Hamrick. I don't think the police investigated as thoroughly as they should have because they feared the Rock Creek gang. I also think one of the officers interviewed has a really good idea of who did it or who was involved. No way was that a simple car accident.

Kurt Cobain
Bobby Fuller

Kurt Cobain
Bobby Fuller

I'm on the fence about both of these.

Hold the phone...wiseguy and I actually agree on a case. I'm also convinced Rae Ann Mosser committed suicide.

I wasn't aware we ever disagreed. :confused:

What made you think Rae Ann committed suicide? Was it my sound reasoning? :lol:

I'm on the fence about both of these.

I've never been convinced Kurt Cobain's death was anything but a suicide. Bobby Fuller, however, is a different story. I don't buy the mafia angle and lean toward it being an accident, but there's a huge sticking point that's always bothered me a lot: why was he covered in all that gasoline?

I've never been convinced Kurt Cobain's death was anything but a suicide. Bobby Fuller, however, is a different story. I don't buy the mafia angle and lean toward it being an accident, but there's a huge sticking point that's always bothered me a lot: why was he covered in all that gasoline?

I don't recall if UM mentioned it, but I've previously read that there was a book of matches laying on the front seat, so someone might have initially planned to saturate him with gas and set fire to the vehicle, but then decided against it. There's the broken finger and the bruising and blood on his shirt and on the car seat that people who found his body thought they saw (accounts vary), but the autopsy did note that upon opening the body, his organs and incised tissue smelled strongly of gasoline, so gas inhalation did play a role in his death. Why did someone take the risk bringing him back to his house, rather than just abandoning the car somewhere?

The circumstances of Rena Paquette's death also seemed pretty questionable.

There are two theories I have on it: the first being a hunting accident in which Ladner was accidentally shot by another hunter, and the second being Ladner in fact being killed by people who didn't want to be seen, but perhaps not for the reasons cited in the segment.

what do you think the motive was for the Tommy Burkett murder?

There are two theories I have on it: the first being a hunting accident in which Ladner was accidentally shot by another hunter, and the second being Ladner in fact being killed by people who didn't want to be seen, but perhaps not for the reasons cited in the segment.

what do you think the motive was for the Tommy Burkett murder?

Wow, I always thought I was one of the few who thought Rae Ann's death was accidental or suicide. 3 witnesses described her as near hysterical on the night of her death, and she even made the remark "What do I have to do kill myself?". There was never any clear evidence of murder. Surely someone would have seen the boyfriend or someone else outside struggling with Rae Ann if it indeed did happen. They were screaming at each other, and her stereo was blasting loud.

I thought this was an open-and-shut case of suicide the first time I ever saw the segment. Her parents just couldn't accept that. Not saying I could if I were them, but it just seemed too obvious to be anything else.

The circumstances of Rena Paquette's death also seemed pretty questionable.

I think Rena Paquette was almost certainly murdered.

what do you think the motive was for the Tommy Burkett murder?

I don't know, but I'm fairly confident it wasn't because he was supposedly a DEA informant.

If I'm remembering what I read correctly, I think bullying could have played a role.

I would also add Andre Jones. I've never, ever thought he committed suicide.

I absolutely believe my father, Dale Williams, was murdered.

What are peoples thoughts on Katherine Korzillius? Accident? I'm leaning more towards an accident.

What are peoples thoughts on Katherine Korzillius? Accident? I'm leaning more towards an accident.

I agree, I think it was an accident as well.

What are peoples thoughts on Katherine Korzillius? Accident? I'm leaning more towards an accident.

Plainly an accident. If it weren't for the Jon Bon Jovi angle, I doubt whether UM would have covered it tbh.

What are peoples thoughts on Katherine Korzillius? Accident? I'm leaning more towards an accident.
It's more likely she was abducted by aliens and thrown from their ship than murdered. I've said it before but what is there to discuss? She fell, hit her head and tragically died. The dog found her scent in the park because she played there! The only mystery is why so many people can't accept the obvious and simple answer.

I absolutely believe my father, Dale Williams, was murdered.
He most certainly was.