In the non-Travolta 4th season episodes, would it have been better if The Sweathogs been comprised of the trio of Washington, Epstein & Horshack instead of bringing in the character of Beau DeLabarre...?

Discuss.

Beau was bad, they could've just used the background characters more I thought...

Mmm-hmmm. They already had Carvelli and Murray. Beau was an unnecessary add-on.

either that, or maybe they could've added some different new characters and try them out for a few episodes at a time, and if they work out then expand their roles, clearly Beau was a no-go though.

In the non-Travolta 4th season episodes, would it have been better if The Sweathogs been comprised of the trio of Washington, Epstein & Horshack instead of bringing in the character of Beau DeLabarre...?

Discuss.


Of course, why add some new to a group that has been together for 3 years. Very dumb decision to add Beau to the cast

Of course, why add some new to a group that has been together for 3 years. Very dumb decision to add Beau to the cast


I agree 100%

Of course, why add some new to a group that has been together for 3 years. Very dumb decision to add Beau to the cast

Well, I imagine the thinking was that there were four Sweathogs, so a fill-in like Beau was needed for the non-Travolta episodes, as John was now a "Special Guest Star," who appeared in only a handful of episodes that season.

But that wasn't the only bad decision. Komack's edict that the show become "issue oriented" changed the tone of the show as well and without Kaplan and Travolta (not to mention the wholesale reshuffling of the writing and production staff), WBK was no longer the show it had been for the first three seasons.

Well, I imagine the thinking was that there were four Sweathogs, so a fill-in like Beau was needed for the non-Travolta episodes, as John was now a "Special Guest Star," who appeared in only a handful of episodes that season.

But that wasn't the only bad decision. Komack's edict that the show become "issue oriented" changed the tone of the show as well and without Kaplan and Travolta (not to mention the wholesale reshuffling of the writing and production staff), WBK was no longer the show it had been for the first three seasons.
It was bad enough without Travolta but Without Kaplan, they should have just stuck a fork in it. It was done.

It was bad enough without Travolta but Without Kaplan, they should have just stuck a fork in it. It was done.

Yeah, but TV producers (certain ones) will milk a show for all it's worth, wanting to make $$$. And I'm sure James Komack also kept the show going to show Gabe Kaplan that he was the boss.

This show has been out of syndication for 11 years, sad

In the non-Travolta 4th season episodes, would it have been better if The Sweathogs been comprised of the trio of Washington, Epstein & Horshack instead of bringing in the character of Beau DeLabarre...?

Discuss.


No, the sitcom wouldn't have worked without the interaction of the four.Without John, the series would be lacking.

No, the sitcom wouldn't have worked without the interaction of the four.Without John, the series would be lacking.

Well, the series was lacking John...and Gabe! John was only in a handful of episodes because his film career was skyrocketing and a lot of people didn't care for Beau as a fill-in fourth Sweathog, so would it have been better to just have the trio of Washington, Epstein & Horshack for the non-Travolta episodes?

Having John in all the episodes was not an option, so the producers provided Beau to fill in the gap created by Travolta's absence.

There are truly times when shows need to just concede that if certain actors leave, the whole premise and dynamic that made the show work is done. It rarely happens, of course, which is why you have so many great shows limping off the air with weak, half hearted final season (or seasons).

MTM did it right. They saw the end coming and didn't want to fade away, but go out with a bang. I only wish others would have followed their example.

There are truly times when shows need to just concede that if certain actors leave, the whole premise and dynamic that made the show work is done. It rarely happens, of course, which is why you have so many great shows limping off the air with weak, half hearted final season (or seasons).

MTM did it right. They saw the end coming and didn't want to fade away, but go out with a bang. I only wish others would have followed their example.


MTM was on the air 6 years when they decided to end it. WBK was only on the air 4 years

MTM was on the air 6 years when they decided to end it. WBK was only on the air 4 years

Doesn't matter. The point was not how long the show had been on, but what had happened in the time it was. Only Valerie Harper and Cloris Leachman, two supporting characters, had left MTM. The two major stars of WBK had left; totally different situation.

Doesn't matter. The point was not how long the show had been on, but what had happened in the time it was. Only Valerie Harper and Cloris Leachman, two supporting characters, had left MTM. The two major stars of WBK had left; totally different situation.

I agree. WBK wasn't the same without Travolta and Kaplan and the show suffered as a result, dying with a mere whimper.

Well, the series was lacking John...and Gabe! John was only in a handful of episodes because his film career was skyrocketing and a lot of people didn't care for Beau as a fill-in fourth Sweathog, so would it have been better to just have the trio of Washington, Epstein & Horshack for the non-Travolta episodes?

Having John in all the episodes was not an option, so the producers provided Beau to fill in the gap created by Travolta's absence.

I liked Beau, but in retrospect, he would have worked better if they had went to community college, and he was a friend from that enviroment.

I didn't hate Beau, but he really didn't do much for me as a character. He was just filling a void, really.

But the damage was done before Beau came on board, really. The power struggle between Kaplan and Komack took its toll on the show and to say it wasn't the same anymore would have been putting it mildly.

I liked Beau, but in retrospect, he would have worked better if they had went to community college, and he was a friend from that enviroment.


The sweathoggs wasn't community college material

The sweathoggs wasn't community college material

Precisely, which is why it would be funny. You know, the "fish out of water" thing.

It might've given Kotter a few more seasons on the air, but we'll never know.

The sweathoggs wasn't community college material

Disagree, to an extent. Barbarino was working at the hospital, Epstein and Washington had gotten jobs, Horshack was married, they definitely were getting older, and sometimes that means community college.

Sure. Imagine the Sweathogs having to deal with Deans, professors and the like. Or them having to deal with the Sweathogs!

Sure. Imagine the Sweathogs having to deal with Deans, professors and the like. Or them having to deal with the Sweathogs!

How about the Sweathogs having to deal with pledging a fraternity? Or forming one of their own? :lol:

How about the Sweathogs having to deal with pledging a fraternity? Or forming one of their own? :lol:

That's actually a really funny idea!

That's actually a really funny idea!

Thanks! I even hesitated to post it because I knew that frats are not common at community colleges, but I did some quick research and found that, while rare, it has happened. And hell, this IS TV, after all! :)

That's actually a really funny idea!

It would give new meaning to the phrase "Animal house."

I would have preferred to see the sweathoggs working at jobs after graduating instead of college

Thanks! I even hesitated to post it because I knew that frats are not common at community colleges, but I did some quick research and found that, while rare, it has happened. And hell, this IS TV, after all! :)

And Kotter wasn't exactly a show based in reality. I could see Barbarino in a toga singing "The Barbarino song."

I would have preferred to see the sweathoggs working at jobs after graduating instead of college

Yes, but then you lose the premise of the show. They wouldn't all be hanging out in Kotter's classroom any more.

Yes, but then you lose the premise of the show. They wouldn't all be hanging out in Kotter's classroom any more.


well they couldn't stay in kotter's classroom forever

well they couldn't stay in kotter's classroom forever

Hence, Kotter takes a job at a college and the Sweathogs follow him there.

This is TV, not reality.

Hence, Kotter takes a job at a college and the Sweathogs follow him there.

This is TV, not reality.



Sweathoggs in college would not make sense so it wouldn't have worked anyway

Sweathoggs in college would not make sense so it wouldn't have worked anyway

Well, that's a matter of opinion. They made it through high school, or at least would have, so why couldn't they have at least tried it in college? No one is assuming any of these guys would be Mensa students, but at least they could have learned a trade of some kind, and it seemed like Horshack, at least, was capable of getting some decent grades.

If you take the guys out of the classroom of some sort, the entire premise of the series is destroyed. You have to keep them together somehow, and you have to have them defying authority of some kind. And honestly, you have to have Kotter in some capacity; the fourth season showed that without him, the show was doomed.

The only way to have them stay together and keep Kotter was a classroom setting. Period.

Well, that's a matter of opinion. They made it through high school, or at least would have, so why couldn't they have at least tried it in college? No one is assuming any of these guys would be Mensa students, but at least they could have learned a trade of some kind, and it seemed like Horshack, at least, was capable of getting some decent grades.

If you take the guys out of the classroom of some sort, the entire premise of the series is destroyed. You have to keep them together somehow, and you have to have them defying authority of some kind. And honestly, you have to have Kotter in some capacity; the fourth season showed that without him, the show was doomed.

The only way to have them stay together and keep Kotter was a classroom setting. Period.


The problem is they choose too much of a older group of guys. They were too old to be so silly so the target audiences should have been actual teens

How about the Sweathogs having to deal with pledging a fraternity? Or forming one of their own? :lol:

That would definitely work:lol: .Don't know how that would've done for Horshack's marriage, however.

Hence, Kotter takes a job at a college and the Sweathogs follow him there.

This is TV, not reality.


LOL. EEEExactly! We must always remember that.

LOL. EEEExactly! We must always remember that.

I mean, did girls in real life continue to live with their school chaperones/mentors after graduation like they did on Facts Of Life?

I mean, did girls in real life continue to live with their school chaperones/mentors after graduation like they did on Facts Of Life?


Its all about the creativity. Maybe the storyline with the guys following Kotter to Junior College could have worked.

Dr. Thong since you feel that TV sitcoms are not real life and unable to have TV discussions

I think you should log out and stop posting forever

Here we go, again...

I mean, did girls in real life continue to live with their school chaperones/mentors after graduation like they did on Facts Of Life?

Exactly. If the Sweathogs had gone to college, Mr. Kotter would just happened to have accepted a teaching job at the same college. And they would have to learn to deal with the new dean of students there, who would JUST HAPPEN TO BE...Mr. Woodman.

Remember COACH, near its last season, when Hayden accepted a job coaching an NFL expansion team? How many college coaches get head coaching jobs for professional teams AND successfully get jobs for two of their assistant coaches so they can go with him?

This IS TV we're talking about, not real life.

Exactly. If the Sweathogs had gone to college, Mr. Kotter would just happened to have accepted a teaching job at the same college. And they would have to learn to deal with the new dean of students there, who would JUST HAPPEN TO BE...Mr. Woodman.

Remember COACH, near its last season, when Hayden accepted a job coaching an NFL expansion team? How many college coaches get head coaching jobs for professional teams AND successfully get jobs for two of their assistant coaches so they can go with him?

This IS TV we're talking about, not real life.



How the hell would the sweathoggs be in college when they wasn't even in regular classes in highschool? Are you talking about a special college with only 30 total students?:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

How the hell would the sweathoggs be in college when they wasn't even in regular classes in highschool? Are you talking about a special college with only 30 total students?:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You can get into college without being a Rhodes scholar. Horshack was getting fairly decent grades by the time the show ended, and while I doubt Epstein and Freddie were, I'm sure there were career track courses at any college around, like auto mechanics, carpentry, masonry, etc. It could have worked with a just a bit of tweaking, and you didn't have to account for Vinnie because he was pretty much long gone by then. :)

You can get into college without being a Rhodes scholar. Horshack was getting fairly decent grades by the time the show ended, and while I doubt Epstein and Freddie were, I'm sure there were career track courses at any college around, like auto mechanics, carpentry, masonry, etc. It could have worked with a just a bit of tweaking, and you didn't have to account for Vinnie because he was pretty much long gone by then. :)



ABC would have said "HELL NO" to a show with the sweathoggs in college:lol:

ABC would have said "HELL NO" to a show with the sweathoggs in college:lol:

Well, you're probably right, assuming the ratings of the last year held. They probably would have said "no" to any more seasons of the show, honestly, but we're just shooting the breeze here and tossing around ideas.

ABC would have said "HELL NO" to a show with the sweathoggs in college:lol:

And you know that for a fact, because....?

And you know that for a fact, because....?

Because the show was no longer a hit by 1979. When was the last time a show had spinoff that was struggling in the ratings????

Because the show was no longer a hit by 1979. When was the last time a show had spinoff that was struggling in the ratings????

Would it technically be a spinoff if it contained all the characters that the last season had?

Would it technically be a spinoff if it contained all the characters that the last season had?


New situations are not created for a failing show. Ask Robin Williams

Beau was awful. They should have kept it as a trio.

Beau was awful. They should have kept it as a trio.


I never had a opportunity to see Beau because of TV Land

They needed another Lady Man so that is why Beau came along. He was definitely no Vinnie Barbarino.

MeTV is currently running the season three episodes.

I look forward to re-watching those infamous season four episodes for the first time in a very long while.

It'll be interesting to see the season that torpedoed Kotter back in the 1978-79 season once again.

Beau was bad, they could've just used the background characters more I thought...

MeTV is showing the season 3 episodes now and I'd forgotten about the character of Angie, the female character who they tried to have as a 5th Sweathog (Melonie Haller was even listed in the opening credits as one of "The Sweathogs" for a few episodes).

They could have simply kept her on and had her appear in the non-Travolta episodes. Since she was an already established character, maybe that would have worked better instead of bringing on the Beau character to fill the void created by Travolta's absence.

Who knows, really? But it's pretty clear that the creative decisions made by James Komack and his new group of writers and producers were not in the show's best interest.

It was bad enough without Travolta but Without Kaplan, they should have just stuck a fork in it. It was done.

I remember that season dimly... was that the one's where Julie Kotter sort of filled in for her husband or something?

Its all about the creativity. Maybe the storyline with the guys following Kotter to Junior College could have worked.

Right, it wasn't like the Sweathogs go to harvard or someplace, and they were Swaethogs not Special Education students after all, surely they could have survived some basic community college or technical college classes.

Those 3 were getting way too old to still stay in high school so they should have moved on to college.

Those 3 were getting way too old to still stay in high school so they should have moved on to college.

And if college didn't work out they could take a cue from Dobie Gillis and join the Army...

I remember that season dimly... was that the one's where Julie Kotter sort of filled in for her husband or something?

At first, she started working as a receptionist at Buchanan High, but she did fill in as a teacher (I don't recall her having any credentials for that, but... ;) ) in some episodes.

Since they weren't going to be doing any scenes at the Kotter home, they must've put her there so she could still be part of the show.

But Julie Kotter, cute as she was with her new shorter hair...wasn't Mr. Kotter.

It's too bad Gabe Kaplan couldn't have put his ego aside and stayed a part of the show. But I guess he wouldn't back down in his battle against James Komack and you know how showbiz egos are sometimes.

this show shouldn't have even been on the air without Vinny and Mr. Kotter

Maybe, but the networks don't like to cancel a hit show just because one or more key actors are no longer with the show (like Two And A Half Men) and Komack wanted to keep it going, so the show went on.

But this is also the guy who kept Chico And The Man going after Freddie Prinze died. Now, that was a show that should've ended then and there, but I guess money talks.

But getting back to Kotter, it couldn't take the losses of both it's most popular star (Travolta) and lead actor (Kaplan) and throw in the change of writers and a move to a different time slot -- that's pretty much the recipe for how to sabotage a show.

Here's a question: Don't they usually sign new actors to five year contracts for shows like Kotter?

If that was the case, then how was Travolta able to get out of doing most of season four? If I were Komack, I might've let him out of doing one or two shows to make a movie, but I would have wanted him in most, if not all of the episodes.

Maybe Travolta didn't sign one of those multi-year contracts and renewed it from season to season, because that's the only thing that would explain why he was only in a handful of the last season's episodes.

this show shouldn't have even been on the air without Vinny and Mr. Kotter

Certainly they wouldn't have had anyone to welcome back without Kotter...

Certainly they wouldn't have had anyone to welcome back without Kotter...

Season four should have been retitled Welcome Back, Mrs. Kotter, because she was in far more episodes than her husband!! ;)

Season four should have been retitled Welcome Back, Mrs. Kotter, because she was in far more episodes than her husband!! ;)

I reckon since she was a Kotter, the title was still valid, but it was kind of like Aunt Bea taking the lead role on The AGS... heh.

I reckon since she was a Kotter, the title was still valid, but it was kind of like Aunt Bea taking the lead role on The AGS... heh.

True, but neither Kaplan or Komack would back off, so we got what we got. It's kind of like the last season of Laverne & Shirley where there was no Shirley anymore. It's too bad egos & creative clashes hurt what were once great shows, but that's showbiz, I guess...

Season four should be starting on Me-TV next week, so it'll be interesting to re-view this infamous final season for the first time in a long while...

Right, it wasn't like the Sweathogs go to harvard or someplace, and they were Swaethogs not Special Education students after all, surely they could have survived some basic community college or technical college classes.

First of all, I know several people, including my sister, who were in special ed all the way through 12th grade and went on to college. Second of all, why do they have to go to college to stick together? Maybe they could all find work at the same business, like a large store for example. This could lead to workplace comedy, conflict with the bosses, maybe the Sweathogs could get some good female counterparts. It would be like a Brooklyn version of "Are You Being Served?" Mr. and Mrs. Kotter could frequent the store, and the whole gang could end up at the Kotter apartment at the end of the day.

Season four should have been retitled Welcome Back, Mrs. Kotter, because she was in far more episodes than her husband!! ;)


Exactly! or "Welcome Mrs. Kotter"! I also think they should've changed the theme song to a more "Disco-ey" feel and maybe do it instrumentally.

First of all, I know several people, including my sister, who were in special ed all the way through 12th grade and went on to college. Second of all, why do they have to go to college to stick together? Maybe they could all find work at the same business, like a large store for example. This could lead to workplace comedy, conflict with the bosses, maybe the Sweathogs could get some good female counterparts. It would be like a Brooklyn version of "Are You Being Served?" Mr. and Mrs. Kotter could frequent the store, and the whole gang could end up at the Kotter apartment at the end of the day.
That could have worked. It could have gotten them out of high school because they getting too old and they need to face the real world.