Why are you proud/ not proud to be an American?
((If you're an American)) ;)

Well, yes. I'm very proud to be an American citizen. For what reasons though, I don't feel like typing now because I'm lazy.

But, I'm proud to be an Irish citizen too :D Can't forget old Ireland

Originally posted by Lisa Whelchel Forever

But, I'm proud to be an Irish citizen too :D Can't forget old Ireland Of course not. :D

;)

I am, for all the regular reasons of course but im also mad at The government because they are covering up alie......... Nevermind

patriot: and im proud 2 be an american!!! cuz at least i know im freeeeeee and i wont forget the men who died to give that rite to me and id proudly stand UP *stops self from singing* *ahem* sry if my voice hurt neone.. patriot:

Originally posted by Blair n' Jo Rock
patriot: and im proud 2 be an american!!! cuz at least i know im freeeeeee and i wont forget the men who died to give that rite to me and id proudly stand UP *stops self from singing* *ahem* sry if my voice hurt neone.. patriot:


-ahem- There ain't no doubt, I love this land...God bless the USAaaaa! patriot:

I'm proud to be an Americanpatriot:



Blair, we really have a future in this duet business, don't ya think?;)





ks

Well I'm from Denmark but I live in the USA now, I'm Danish-American. I'm proud to be half American cuz... umm... I dunno :confused: :lol:. Actually only men are free, that's why this place is a ****hole :D

Originally posted by tootiefan4life
Actually only men are free, that's why this place is a ****hole :D

*confused* I thought women were free too?

Originally posted by Lisa Whelchel Forever


*confused* I thought women were free too?

Ah America just says that, that's total bull. How come a woman has never been president and will probably never be? And when women get married they have to take the man's last name. I don't call that being free.

I'm not nessasarily "proud" to be an American. I'm happy being an American and living here. But I mean, I'd rather live somewhere else. Like Canada, or Austrailia, or Scotland! They're all very similiar to America in a sense. All of them are "free", except they aren't the biggest entity in the world, like America is. Which is a double-edged sword...You've got the most friends, yet just as many enemies...
Okay, I'll stop rambling now...

Originally posted by tootiefan4life


Ah America just says that, that's total bull. How come a woman has never been president and will probably never be? And when women get married they have to take the man's last name. I don't call that being free.

And a college-educated female makes the same salary or less on average as a man with merely a high school diploma.

Ummm I'm not really proud be I'm not UNproud either. I'd be happy to live in most other places too.

Originally posted by Lisa Whelchel Forever


*confused* I thought women were free too?

They/you are. Please pay no attention to that one.



I am proud to be an American because... well, I think everyone knows the reasons. I know we have our problems. Our share of jerks. But we also have so many blessings. It has been a long, hard fight to equality for women and African-Americans and other minority groups, and that fight is never truly over. In many aspects, we are not really free. But we do have it good. And we keep trekking towards freedom.


I'm proud of the men and women who shaped this country! Who shaped the very essence of who we are today!
George Washingon
Abraham Lincoln
Peter Zenger
Benjamin Franklin
Susan B. Anthony
Frankin D Roosevelt
Theodore Roosevelt
Martin Luther King jr.
Rosa Parks

The list goes on. And to the unsung hero's who we may never know the names of. Like all the ex-slaves who fought in the civil war. And I'm proud of the firefighters.




There are perhaps thousands of individuals who have shape our nation since it's birth. And I am proud of each of them. As for the jerks...:nonono:



This is a great land.patriot:

Originally posted by tootiefan4life


Ah America just says that, that's total bull. How come a woman has never been president and will probably never be? And when women get married they have to take the man's last name. I don't call that being free.

I'd vote for a woman President! You know the fight for equality is never over. And have you seen those pictures of women in Afghanistan? Now THEY are not free. Women in America have it GREAT compard to them!

Originally posted by ks



-ahem- There ain't no doubt, I love this land...God bless the USAaaaa! patriot:

I'm proud to be an Americanpatriot:



Blair, we really have a future in this duet business, don't ya think?;)





ks

of-course!! we'd sell millions if we made a CD lol

Originally posted by Max Whittaker


They/you are. Please pay no attention to that one.



I am proud to be an American because... well, I think everyone knows the reasons. I know we have our problems. Our share of jerks. But we also have so many blessings. It has been a long, hard fight to equality for women and African-Americans and other minority groups, and that fight is never truly over. In many aspects, we are not really free. But we do have it good. And we keep trekking towards freedom.


I'm proud of the men and women who shaped this country! Who shaped the very essence of who we are today!
George Washingon
Abraham Lincoln
Peter Zenger
Benjamin Franklin
Susan B. Anthony
Frankin D Roosevelt
Theodore Roosevelt
Martin Luther King jr.
Rosa Parks

The list goes on. And to the unsung hero's who we may never know the names of. Like all the ex-slaves who fought in the civil war. And I'm proud of the firefighters.




There are perhaps thousands of individuals who have shape our nation since it's birth. And I am proud of each of them. As for the jerks...:nonono:



This is a great land.patriot:

YOU ARE SUCH A LIAR! How come a woman can't be president? And exactly what Bootsy Whoosh said about jobs. That's why their are people who support women's rights, you don't see that with men huh? Oh, geez you are so dumb. This is a great land but everyone is not equal that's just complete bull ****. :mad: Oh, I HATE IDIOTS like you lol.

Originally posted by tootiefan4life


YOU ARE SUCH A LIAR! How come a woman can't be president? And exactly what Bootsy Whoosh said about jobs. That's why their are people who support women's rights, you don't see that with men huh? Oh, geez you are so dumb. This is a great land but everyone is not equal that's just complete bull ****. :mad: Oh, I HATE IDIOTS like you lol.

I see...

Originally posted by Max Whittaker


I see...

TJ, close this thread before I strangle this guy.

All right now...everyone just take a deep breath....count to 10....exhale.....aaaaaahhhhhh....

Kristina...I don't think Max meant any harm.

Most importantly, jumping on his back is not an effective way to get him to see things from your/our point of view.

Now surely you can see Max's point that women in America have it good compared to women in many third world countries, and countries such as Afghanistan.

However, we should not be blind to the fact that many countries have a history of treating women better than in America (at least as far as equal rights go).

Max, it wasn't very nice to simply brush aside Kristina's comments like they were meaningless, like as if you saying that women are equal made it true.

You need to see that despite the fact that women in America have come a long way, there is still a long way to go. There is a glass ceiling. There is disparity in wages. Did you know that when a man and a women get married, on average, the women gains an additional 9 hours of work per month. That's work in the home, housework, cooking, chores, unpaid work in addition to trying to keep their own jobs. Did you realize that if a child gets sick, often it is the woman who is expected to leave their job to tend to the sick child? This often prevents the woman from getting promotions and pay raises, because she is not seen as a dedicated worker.

Simply saying that you would vote for a women President does not mean that the issue is no longer important, and it kind of seems like you brushed the issue off as unimportant.

When you get right down to it, it is still a man's world. I don't share the cynism that a woman will never be President, however I don't think that it will happen in our lifetimes.

Kristina, keep in mind that in the scheme of things, America is just a baby. You can turn to other countries such as Britain, and point to the fact that they had a female Prime Minister, but keep in mind that was 1000+ years in coming. America is just barely over 200 years old.

Now, neither of you have to listen to me. You can stay mad if you want. Just trying to nip things in the bud, because I would prefer to see this thread remain open.

I just wanted to post this here as food for thought, simply because the talk about women made me think of it. Take what you want from it. (I didn't write this....I don't think anyone knows who did....)

UNTITLED
Because woman's work is never done and is underpaid or unpaid or boring or repititious
and we're the first to get the sack
and what we look like is more important than what we do
and if we get raped it's our fault
and if we get bashed we must have provoked it
and if we raise our voices we're nagging bitches
and if we enjoy sex we're nymphos
and if we don't we're frigid
and if we love women it's because we can't get a "real" man
and if we ask our doctor too many questions we're neurotic and/or pushy
and if we expect community care for children we're selfish
and if we stand up for our rights we're aggressive and "unfeminine"
and if we don't we're typical weak females
and if we want to get married we're out to trap a man
and if we don't we're unnatural
and because we still can't get adequate safe contraception but men can walk on the moon
and if we can't cope or don't want a pregnancy we're made to feel guilty about abortion
and..... for lots and lots of other reasons we are a part of the woman's liberation movement.

******
ya know that contraceptive comment just made me think of something else (I know, I know... I just don't know how to shut up). Notice how Viagra, as soon as it was put on the market, was instantly covered by insurance whereas it's been nearly 40 years since Pill has been on the market, and it still isn't covered by insurance? So essentially, we are making it cheap for men to be able to have more sex, but women aren't afforded that same priveldge.

Originally posted by tootiefan4life


Ah America just says that, that's total bull. How come a woman has never been president and will probably never be? And when women get married they have to take the man's last name. I don't call that being free.

I think that actually in the next 20 years there WILL be a woman president. As for the last name thing, not everyone takes their husbands last name. Look at Lisa Whelchel.

D

Originally posted by Ags2000
As for the last name thing, not everyone takes their husbands last name. Look at Lisa Whelchel.

Hmph. Point given.

Originally posted by Bootsy Whoosh
All right now...everyone just take a deep breath....count to 10....exhale.....aaaaaahhhhhh....

Kristina...I don't think Max meant any harm.

Most importantly, jumping on his back is not an effective way to get him to see things from your/our point of view.

Now surely you can see Max's point that women in America have it good compared to women in many third world countries, and countries such as Afghanistan.

However, we should not be blind to the fact that many countries have a history of treating women better than in America (at least as far as equal rights go).

Max, it wasn't very nice to simply brush aside Kristina's comments like they were meaningless, like as if you saying that women are equal made it true.

You need to see that despite the fact that women in America have come a long way, there is still a long way to go. There is a glass ceiling. There is disparity in wages. Did you know that when a man and a women get married, on average, the women gains an additional 9 hours of work per month. That's work in the home, housework, cooking, chores, unpaid work in addition to trying to keep their own jobs. Did you realize that if a child gets sick, often it is the woman who is expected to leave their job to tend to the sick child? This often prevents the woman from getting promotions and pay raises, because she is not seen as a dedicated worker.

Simply saying that you would vote for a women President does not mean that the issue is no longer important, and it kind of seems like you brushed the issue off as unimportant.

When you get right down to it, it is still a man's world. I don't share the cynism that a woman will never be President, however I don't think that it will happen in our lifetimes.

Kristina, keep in mind that in the scheme of things, America is just a baby. You can turn to other countries such as Britain, and point to the fact that they had a female Prime Minister, but keep in mind that was 1000+ years in coming. America is just barely over 200 years old.

Now, neither of you have to listen to me. You can stay mad if you want. Just trying to nip things in the bud, because I would prefer to see this thread remain open.

I'm not angry. Just shocked at the accusation of me being a liar. If I sounded like I was dismissing you,Kristina, that was not my intention at all.

Bootsy, I thought I made it clear that I believed American women,as well as others,still have a long fight ahead of them. Oh well, I know that everything we have is the result of many years of hard work and battles. And it will be many more years of hard work and battles for all groups of people to have "real" equal rights. We'll get there.
Women have only had the right to vote for about 100 years. One day one will become President.

But to say that women are not free here... Well, anyway.

Originally posted by Max Whittaker


They/you are. Please pay no attention to that one.
---------------------------------
There are perhaps thousands of individuals who have shape our nation since it's birth. And I am proud of each of them. As for the jerks...:nonono:



This is a great land.patriot:


Ok, that's what you said to me first when I was just making a point. I'm sorry for getting so :mad: just stop the arguments, Okay? :D Because I am through with this post...

Well, I'm sorry I made you mad.
And incase you misunderstood, I wasn't calling you a jerk. I was referring to the people who set democracy back. Well, it doesn't matter now anyway.

Back to the topic at hand.

I LOVE being an American because when you see in some other countires how they live, your thankful for what you got here in America :)

I dont like being an American because things like Sept. 11th happen and people in other countries are jealous and wanna hurt American people... :(

not proud, sorry. true, we're more free than other countries, but no one is ever free. this place is full of hypocrites and ignorant people with closed minds. i'm sickened by all the american flags around me... most of those people aren't patriotic at all. but, of course, they MUST conform... they MUST do what everyone else does. as i said in one of my online things:

welcome to america. turn on your television and sit back, relax. watch the infomercials on how to lose 20 pounds in six weeks. watch the tv shows that glorify women, make fun of gays, and trivialize life's biggest issues. get your problems solved in a half hour, wrapped with a little bow. now turn on your radio. right.. that's it. listen to your pop icons that sell their music by using their bodies. brainless music which means nothing. go ahead. soak it up. listen to the ever-growing cult of conformists that lead america's children into being just like everyone else.

now go to the schools.

see what exactly happens there. it's ****ed up. anorexia and bulimea. depression. suicide. drugs. alcohol. sex. lots of sex. media induced images that rot away at the core of human souls. girls are striving to reach a perfection which most can't obtain. there is no ****ing perfection. people are led to believe that problems can be solved and when their problems can't be, they believe that they're something wrong with them. all the **** that our society makes us look at, be apart of, is ruining us. we're dead inside. we follow the rules set forth by those before us. you must be popular. you must be thin. you must fit in. you must be happy. you must you must you must... and if you don't follow these rules, well, screw you.

this, my friends, is america. everything is controlled by something, weather it's the government or the media or something totally different. there is no freedom. we have no choice. god forbid we choose differently... god forbid we go against the system.

**** the system.


well, that's my opinion. i know you'll all hate it, but i don't really give a damn.


*jenn*

Of course, I am very proud to be an American and to live in this great country, but I can never forget my home country Poland. I would do anything for both these countries. patriot:

Originally posted by tormented_soul
well, that's my opinion. i know you'll all hate it, but i don't really give a damn.

No. I don't hate it. You want the truth? I think that's the best overview of America I've ever seen. True I said I was half-heartedly proud, but still...the post that Jenn made makes 110% sense. Especially about the schools and fitting in. Oh well -shrugs- I may be proud, but I still agree with Jenn

patriot: Because I live here!!!!

Originally posted by tormented_soul

well, that's my opinion. i know you'll all hate it, but i don't really give a damn.

*jenn*

Hate it?? Are you kidding??? I have so much respect for you after reading your post!

I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I free.

Originally posted by Mossopp


Hate it?? Are you kidding??? I have so much respect for you after reading your post!

wow.. thank you very much. i came here expecting to be lashed out at, but the two people who responded both didn't. anyway, thank you again. a lot of people do not like me for what i think.

*jenn*

Originally posted by JDS84
I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I free.

I know this is gonna cause soooooo many arguments but I can't bite my tongue any longer -

EVERYONE -
You are not free just cos you live in the USA, anymore than I'm free cos I live in Scotland. None of us are really free, in the true sense of the word.
What the hell does that mean anyway? - "I'm free cos I live in America!" No you're not - half of you have no freedom at all cos you have to do what parents and teachers tell you. And then when you leave school you'll have to do what your boss tells you. You have to abide by the law or you'll get locked up. You have to keep making those mortgage payments or they'll repossess your house. You have to do jury duty. You have to do everything that "they" tell you - and it's gonna be that way for the rest of your lives!
You can bitch at me for saying this if you want, but some of you guys are so niave it's unbelievable!!! I remember that, a while back, one of you had a signature with loads of those wee "patriotic" smilies and the slogan "look at me Mr Terrorist - I'm patriotic". I didn't say anything at the time cos I didn't see the point in stirring up any animosity but do you seriously think the terrorists are scared of all your flag-waving? I know I have a Saltire flag as my avatar so, please, don't any of you bother pointing this out to me. My point is that I'm not niave enough to think that, in a life or death, all-out war situation, a flag is gonna save my ass.
Maybe I'm missing the point, and if I am then please explain it too me cos I really don't see how you people can honestly sit there and say, with a straight face, that you are "free".

" Did you see that flag burning thing? Wasn't that great, man?
People snapped, they were like "Hey buddy, my dad died for that flag."
"Really?...I bought mine...They sell 'em in K-Mart and sh#t..."
"yeah, he died in Korea for that flag."
"Wow, what a coincidence - mine was made in Korea...the world is THAT big, man..."

Noone, and I repeat NOONE has ever died for a flag. A flag is a f#cking piece of cloth!"
- Bill Hicks

Originally posted by tormented_soul
a lot of people do not like me for what i think.

Your kidding me, right? It's your opinion. You have a right to think what you want to think... if someone has a problem with it, screw 'em

Originally posted by Lisa Whelchel Forever


Your kidding me, right? It's your opinion. You have a right to think what you want to think... if someone has a problem with it, screw 'em

I'm glad that you are that open minded Karli, but your statement is a bit naive. Much of the animosity and hatred in this world could be boiled down to a difference in opinion.

BTW folks, Mossop is right, concerning this whole freedom/flag thing.

Originally posted by tormented_soul
not proud, sorry. true, we're more free than other countries, but no one is ever free. this place is full of hypocrites and ignorant people with closed minds. i'm sickened by all the american flags around me... most of those people aren't patriotic at all. but, of course, they MUST conform... they MUST do what everyone else does. as i said in one of my online things:

welcome to america. turn on your television and sit back, relax. watch the infomercials on how to lose 20 pounds in six weeks. watch the tv shows that glorify women, make fun of gays, and trivialize life's biggest issues. get your problems solved in a half hour, wrapped with a little bow. now turn on your radio. right.. that's it. listen to your pop icons that sell their music by using their bodies. brainless music which means nothing. go ahead. soak it up. listen to the ever-growing cult of conformists that lead america's children into being just like everyone else.

now go to the schools.

see what exactly happens there. it's ****ed up. anorexia and bulimea. depression. suicide. drugs. alcohol. sex. lots of sex. media induced images that rot away at the core of human souls. girls are striving to reach a perfection which most can't obtain. there is no ****ing perfection. people are led to believe that problems can be solved and when their problems can't be, they believe that they're something wrong with them. all the **** that our society makes us look at, be apart of, is ruining us. we're dead inside. we follow the rules set forth by those before us. you must be popular. you must be thin. you must fit in. you must be happy. you must you must you must... and if you don't follow these rules, well, screw you.

this, my friends, is america. everything is controlled by something, weather it's the government or the media or something totally different. there is no freedom. we have no choice. god forbid we choose differently... god forbid we go against the system.

**** the system.


well, that's my opinion. i know you'll all hate it, but i don't really give a damn.


*jenn*



:clap: :clap: I agree 200%. We may get more opportunities than some countries, but you certainly don't get the equality and respect that you always deserve. This is a country filled with nothing but hate.

Originally posted by Mossopp




~No you're not - half of you have no freedom at all cos you have to do what parents and teachers tell you. And then when you leave school you'll have to do what your boss tells you. You have to abide by the law or you'll get locked up.

~You can bitch at me for saying this if you want, but some of you guys are so niave it's unbelievable!!! I remember that, a while back, one of you had a signature with loads of those wee "patriotic" smilies and the slogan "look at me Mr Terrorist - I'm patriotic".


~Maybe I'm missing the point, and if I am then please explain it too me cos I really don't see how you people can honestly sit there and say, with a straight face, that you are "free".


~Noone, and I repeat NOONE has ever died for a flag. A flag is a f#cking piece of cloth!"
- Bill Hicks [/B]

~Yes, you're right about the first statement above, that as a minor, we have to do what we are told by our parents and the state, blah, blah, blah. But of course, once you turn 18, you can pretty much do whatever you want. You have that choice. To have a job, or not. To break the law or not. You can run away from the law. Whatever, you see my point? People aren't nessasarily going to go out and break the law because they can, MOST know what's "morally" right. I mean, some guy can go off and live out in the Rocky Mountains and live off fish. No one's saying that's a pausible life, but what if he chose to live that life?
Have you read "Into the Wild"? There's a guy who did that exact same thing. But in Alaska, and of course, he died.

~I totally agree with you about all this flag-waving. In my opinion, I think it's rather worthless. BUT, it's their choice as Americans to do so. And it's widely accepted behavior, especially after September 11th. I don't know, I just ignore it all and let them be.

~All right. With much of a strait face as I can put on, I can say...I'm "free". But, of course, it's more of the limitless oppurtunities and choices I have living in this country. I can practicly do whatever I want. My parents are well-to-do, I live in Northern California, where theres beaches an half an hour drive away, and the snow is an afternoon's drive away. San Francisco is right over the hills, and Hollywood is a short hour plane ride.
I have absolutely nothing to complain about really. Besides the basic teen angst stuff, which is normal. I'm not a very "patriotic" person, nor am I cynical.
Gosh, but as damn corny as this sounds, I'm free.

Cokies makes all very good points. However, one point I think Mossop was trying to make is that many other people in this world have all those same freedoms, not just people in America. Like people in Japan and Canada, and Western Europe basically have all those same freedoms, and in some ways, depending on how you look at it, they have more freedom....

I think some people tend to think that America is the only country that has it this good, when that's just not the case.

Originally posted by Bootsy Whoosh
Like people in Japan and Canada, and Western Europe basically have all those same freedoms, and in some ways, depending on how you look at it, they have more freedom....

I think some people tend to think that America is the only country that has it this good, when that's just not the case.

Totally. I understand completely. I mean, I'd be happy living in other countries that are based on a democracy. Pretty much all English speaking countries are so, and the rest of Europe(almost) and Japan. They live practicly the same way we do. But I'm not putting America on this pedastal, no way.

Proud because we live in the greatest nation on the planet! :happyface :happyface :happyface