This came up in another thread and it got me thinking. Doesn't it seem like there were a LOT of stories where the idea of satanists, satan worshipers, satanic cults, or other cults (possibly satanic) came up? everybodylovesrs in the other thread mentioned this and I didn't realize it until the other day. I was watching some old episodes and almost three times in a row there were cases involving this aspect.

So I ask you all: why? Was there something about the 80's that there was a great satan scare? I don't want this to get into religion (in terms of "is there really a satan?" or "christianity vs. others"). I just never really realized how often that topic came up.

I started making a list of the cases I can think of off the top of my head that involved satanists, cults, or something similar:

- Son of Sam
- Jared Peters
- Omarr the arsonist
- Kurt McFall
- Shane Stewart & Sally McNelley
- Eric & Pam Ellender
- Charlie Sigmin

I'm sure there are many more stories from UM. I guess my question is how many, if any, of these really involved satan worshiping or was UM capitializing on the hype of the day? :confused:

This came up in another thread and it got me thinking. Doesn't it seem like there were a LOT of stories where the idea of satanists, satan worshipers, satanic cults, or other cults (possibly satanic) came up? everybodylovesrs in the other thread mentioned this and I didn't realize it until the other day. I was watching some old episodes and almost three times in a row there were cases involving this aspect.

So I ask you all: why? Was there something about the 80's that there was a great satan scare? I don't want this to get into religion (in terms of "is there really a satan?" or "christianity vs. others"). I just never really realized how often that topic came up.

I started making a list of the cases I can think of off the top of my head that involved satanists, cults, or something similar:

- Son of Sam
- Jared Peters
- Omarr the arsonist
- Kurt McFall
- Shane Stewart & Sally McNelley
- Eric & Pam Ellender
- Charlie Sigmin

I'm sure there are many more stories from UM. I guess my question is how many, if any, of these really involved satan worshiping or was UM capitializing on the hype of the day? :confused:

Well I believe that Berkowitz was a member of a Satanic Cult that sacrificed dogs in Untermyer Park in the seventies. As for the others I guess it depends on whether you take any of these Satanists at their word. The Omar arsonist, Satan's Kids Against The Establishment and Ann Sigmin all claimed to be into devil worship but really who knows?

My overall feeling on the subject matter is that in the cases that UM profiled that involved Satanism, UM was probably accurate in how they portrayed them for the most part. However, in general the media really did blow the whole Satanism thing out of proportion.

I think lots of people were posing as Satanists, but weren't really, if that makes sense. It was a cool thing to say to sound badass.

There is a whole book about Satanic activity, The Ultimate Evil, and it seems kind of bunky to me.

Most of these people were just bored kids looking to piss off everyone they could. They didn't get any of the actual beliefs of Satanism right or even in the ballpark for that matter, so I'm going to have to say they just wanted to sound dangerous and cool. Did UM capitalize on the satanic scare of the 80's, you bet they did. It make for more viewers. I respect the show and what it did, but there are those facets of it which disappoint me, the whole satanism thing is one of those facets.

If you ever want insight into what people did and said at the time to sell the books and sell out their speaking engagements, first read "The Satan Seller" by Mike Warnke and then read "Selling Satan" which completely debunks everything Warnke ever claimed.

Satanic Panic (http://www.amazon.com/Satanic-Panic-Creation-Contemporary-Legend/dp/081269192X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316388097&sr=8-1) is a well-regarded sociological study of this phenomenon. I have it on my list of books to read, but that list is very long, so I don't know when I will get to it. Please read it and tell us what it says!! :)

I read Satanic Panic several years ago and I highly recommend it.Of the books which address the whole phenomena, I've found it to be the best.

Huh... This is interesting.

This brings up another topic mentioned a few times on UM that was also rumored to be a horror in the 80's: snuff films. Those are (supposedly) amateur movies made with kids where the child was killed, usually after being raped. I remember hearing a lot about this when I was a kid and then later through junior high, high school, and college.

Turns out, it was all hype. After reading up on this, it says that some murders and deaths have been captured on tape, but they have never found one true example of a snuff film. Back in the day, you heard about that all the time on the news and on programs like UM and AMW.

I didn't realize until recently that it sounds like satanic cults may largly be a similar urban legend. There are probably some real examples but the hype surrounding them is just that. Fascinating...

Huh... This is interesting.

This brings up another topic mentioned a few times on UM that was also rumored to be a horror in the 80's: snuff films. Those are (supposedly) amateur movies made with kids where the child was killed, usually after being raped. I remember hearing a lot about this when I was a kid and then later through junior high, high school, and college.

Turns out, it was all hype. After reading up on this, it says that some murders and deaths have been captured on tape, but they have never found one true example of a snuff film. Back in the day, you heard about that all the time on the news and on programs like UM and AMW.

I didn't realize until recently that it sounds like satanic cults may largly be a similar urban legend. There are probably some real examples but the hype surrounding them is just that. Fascinating...

I think JS mentioned a week ago in the case involving Rachael Runyan which mentions snuff films, he suspected that the police may have been the ones initially to attach snuff films to that case.

That got me thinking if there was anything more to that? Did someone send in a tip about Runyan being in a snuff film or was it just something the police suspected and if so why? It's so bizarre that there would be a campaign to find this film although if it was something attached at the time to the Runyan case that would obviously be an valid explanation.

As far as the "Satanic Panic" again I believe it existed in the media but I also think there was something to all that although not on the scale purported by the media. In fact I'm one hundred percent sure of it.

Is ritualistic child abuse an offshoot of satanic panic? Child sexual abuse is real, and likely underreported. However, once the story involves about 15 people wearing robes, chanting and making it into ceremony then, in my opinion, you are in Fictionville.

I can remember growing up in the 80's, if someone spray painted grafitti on the school, its was blamed on satanists.

Everything bad at the time seemed to be caused by satanists.

I can remember growing up in the 80's, if someone spray painted grafitti on the school, its was blamed on satanists.

Everything bad at the time seemed to be caused by satanists.
Yeah, I remember my brother, after he got his driver's license, used to take me out driving on back country roads near our town. There was an abandoned property along one of these roads that everyone knew as the place where satanic cults held their rituals...or had in the past before the police found out about. Of course, it was just our town's own little urban legend/ghost story, and it made life not seem so boring. We would drive by it slowly, and feel creeped out, and fun was had by all...

But then, there's the line that gets crossed when people start getting thrown in prison based on a satanic witch hunt. That's the real scary stuff!

Satanic panic and the whole idea that there are crazed killer cults out there was all put by christian churches in an attempt to make themselves relevant in modern day America. In the 80s it became popular for churches to try and scare people into joining them. Using scare tactics is ofcourse nothing new. Tell the parents that Satan is all around their children so that they bring them to church at an early age so they can be protected from such evils.

Unfortunatley many in the music and movie business decided to cash in on the hysteria that the churches created. Many musicians put out songs that seemed to pay homage to this satan person in an effort to cash in and there was no shortage of movies about devil worshipping cults murdering people. This just fed into the nonsense even more.

Bottom line is that Satan was created by Christians so that they would have an enemy. For someone to proclaim they are a Satanist would mean that they believe in the Bible. This is why none of it makes a lick of sense.

The truly scary cults to me are the ones that claim to be on the side of good. The ones who wear white robes and speak of eternal life and happines in order to win over people's trust and make them feel at ease. This year alone in my hometown we have had three catholic preists sued for molesting children. One of them named 'Sean Rattigan" was making kiddy porn in the church itself. This was brought to the attention of the arch diosease and they did not turn him over to police but instead moved him to another church. So you people who say there are just bad apples but the religon as a whole is good are wrong. The church covers up and uses your donations to fight legal battles for pedofiles. I have read no stories of Satan worshipers molesting children yet but am waiting.
Here are some truly scary cult people,

Jim Jones- Christian who murdered over 900 of his followers

David Koresh- Christian who led over one hundred of his followers to their demise
Timothy Mcveigh- Christian who bombed OKC federal building

911 Hijackers-Muslims who murdered over 3000 Americans

The salem witch trials, The crusades, etc etc
Lets look at facts not fiction and see who the truly dangerous people are here

Is ritualistic child abuse an offshoot of satanic panic? Child sexual abuse is real, and likely underreported. However, once the story involves about 15 people wearing robes, chanting and making it into ceremony then, in my opinion, you are in Fictionville.
If the robes they are wearing are white and the chanting is singing gospel songs then the abuse is very real and more then likely taking place in a catholic church. No fiction there.

I think JS mentioned a week ago in the case involving Rachael Runyan which mentions snuff films, he suspected that the police may have been the ones initially to attach snuff films to that case.

That got me thinking if there was anything more to that? Did someone send in a tip about Runyan being in a snuff film or was it just something the police suspected and if so why? It's so bizarre that there would be a campaign to find this film although if it was something attached at the time to the Runyan case that would obviously be an valid explanation.

Several years ago, I found an old newspaper article on the Runyan case which was published around the time UM broadcast her story. If I remember correctly, the article stated that a prison informant had provided the police with information that the purpose of Rachel Runyan's abduction was to make a snuff film. The article didn't elaborate further.

I do remember reading a follow up that was clearly written after the UM broadcast in which it was stated that the telecenter was bombarded with anonymous calls from people describing various child porn films they had seen that they thought might have been Runyan's. That must have been pretty surreal for the telecenter operators.

As I said in another post, I found it interesting that, in the Runyan segment, the police acknowledged the possibility that snuff exists and basically made an appeal for someone to send it in; the official stance, traditionally, has been that such films do not exist.

A few years ago, I took a class on homeland security. One evening, a US mail customs inspector came in as a guest speaker to talk about his job. He had been in the same position for over 20 years inspecting the mail for child pornography. Someone in the class asked if he had ever found any snuff films. I think he said he found 3, but all were determined to be fraudulent.

Does snuff exist? Idk. You can't really prove a negative though.

If the robes they are wearing are white and the chanting is singing gospel songs then the abuse is very real and more then likely taking place in a catholic church. No fiction there.

Sure, but there aren't many accounts of of abuse by church officials where the actual abuse takes place in large, ceremonial settings.

I think a lot of times before what became popularly known as "goth", people began to generalize and lump them in with "cults" and "satanists". I do believe they existed back in the day and probably still now, but I don't think it was the extent that UM led people to believe. Kurt McFall is a great example of someone who was interested IMHO Medieval times and he was tagged as a member of a cult, simply because he liked something different that wasn't very popular with other teenagers. And that's sad & wrong.

I think a lot of times before what became popularly known as "goth", people began to generalize and lump them in with "cults" and "satanists". I do believe they existed back in the day and probably still now, but I don't think it was the extent that UM led people to believe. Kurt McFall is a great example of someone who was interested IMHO Medieval times and he was tagged as a member of a cult, simply because he liked something different that wasn't very popular with other teenagers. And that's sad & wrong.

Correct. There needs to be a clear line drawn between those types of fads and Satanic activity. That being said where it pertains to McFall specifically, it is worth noting that according to his friend that his behavior was bizarre enough to cause him to be isolated by his friends. Not sure what that adds up to personally but it's something that has always stuck out to me.

Correct. There needs to be a clear line drawn between those types of fads and Satanic activity.

I guess that's where I was kind of headed with the original post. I think it may have been fad back then to make anyone who was "that way" into a satanist. Goth, pagan, what have you. I remember kids who played with Ouija boards they got at the mall were called "devil worshipers" by others at school. There is a fine line between real satan worshipers (and there were a few out there -- or wanted to be) but the gray area between what's left is pretty big. It is probably easier for people back then to lump the rest together. Back in the 80's any kid who listened to heavy metal might be labeled a devil worshiper.


That being said where it pertains to McFall specifically, it is worth noting that according to his friend that his behavior was bizarre enough to cause him to be isolated by his friends. Not sure what that adds up to personally but it's something that has always stuck out to me.


I agree 100% here, too. That story always bothered me for a lot of reasons. The re-enactment group who liked to play knights didn't bug me, but the guy who wanted to be called "Carrhotic" (sp?) and his group were disturbing. No disrespect to Kurt's dad, but why would you let your high school age son stay overnight with a goofball like that? Carrhotic seemed like a dim bulb during the interview and the whole thing gave me the creeps.

Like you said, Dante, when Kurt's friends say he was being pulled in a bad direction, that speaks volumes. Whether it was satanic or not, it didn't seem healthy. It just seems like more people should have taken notice but maybe not enough people had enough info. But that story always freaked me out.

Okay, you may resume the topic of devil worship... :devil: :D

Correct. There needs to be a clear line drawn between those types of fads and Satanic activity. That being said where it pertains to McFall specifically, it is worth noting that according to his friend that his behavior was bizarre enough to cause him to be isolated by his friends. Not sure what that adds up to personally but it's something that has always stuck out to me.

Teenagers are generally conformists. The fact that Kurt was dabbling in a misunderstood, off the beaten path type religion and likely devoting large amounts of time to that pursuit may have been cause enough for him to be ostracized from the majority of peers in his age group who would not have shared this interest.

One of the problems I have always had with the McFall segment is the apparent Satanic overtones, yet no evidence to support the contention that Satanists had a hand in Kurt's demise. Nether group that Kurt was involved with at the end of his life struck me as Satanic per say. However, given the era in which the segment was produced (1987-1988; the height of Satanic Panic) and the then lack of information about either group, and I could see where some confusion might ensue. It's not surprising to me, for instance, that the SCA vehemently objected to this segment and tried (unsuccessfully) to get it pulled from airing due to UM's implied insinuation that the SCA engaged in Satanic rituals. I wonder if Caradoc's group suffered any fallout as a result of the segment. I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case as well.

Satanic panic was everywhere in the 80's. There were rumors of a Satanic cult practicing in Port Deposit, Maryland, up the road from where I live. Apparently someone had found a dead cat and others reported seeing figures in hooded robes at night.

This was around the time of when metal music was being accused of putting demonic messages in their records and when people started to come forward with repressed memories of being forced to participate in Satanic rituals or they were abused during those rituals. It was powerful stuff to listen to and I'm not surprised so many believed it. I was in grade school at the time and impressionable, but I never really thought a lot of the heavy metal acts actually believed or worshipped Satan, they were just doing it for show and to sell records. I thought there was a lot of overreaction. I'm not saying there are people out there who actually do practice Satanism, but it sure was and is a very convienent scapegoat to have when you need to try and rationalize behaviors and actions that aren't what society considers normal.

The problem I've had from the beginning of the whole satanic panic thing is this, what people generally claim satanists do is pure bunk. Are there Satanists out there? Absolutely, most of them are members of either the Church of Satan (Anton LaVey) or the Temple of Set (Michael Aquino). Some people brand themselves satanists without even a basic understanding of what actual satanists believe. Satanists do not condone killing animals or harming children. Those of the LaVeyan branch don't actually believe in Satan. I know, that sounds ridiculous, but it's true. The whole robes and chanting and whatnot, well, LaVey was a showman first and foremost. He never met publicity he didn't hound.

To address what someone else (Sorry, I forgot who) brought up, if you believe in far out conspiracy theories, then child trafficking and snuff films can all be linked to this vast conspiracy of satanists. I'm sure most of you are familiar with the whole Illumaniti nonsense. It goes well beyond just the satanic hysteria of the 80's and into some pretty out there territory. Territory I don't advise you to explore without a tin foil hat affixed firmly to your head. ;)

Sure, but there aren't many accounts of of abuse by church officials where the actual abuse takes place in large, ceremonial settings.
There are some but no you are right they usually keep that hidden

The problem I've had from the beginning of the whole satanic panic thing is this, what people generally claim satanists do is pure bunk. Are there Satanists out there? Absolutely, most of them are members of either the Church of Satan (Anton LaVey) or the Temple of Set (Michael Aquino). Some people brand themselves satanists without even a basic understanding of what actual satanists believe. Satanists do not condone killing animals or harming children. Those of the LaVeyan branch don't actually believe in Satan. I know, that sounds ridiculous, but it's true. The whole robes and chanting and whatnot, well, LaVey was a showman first and foremost. He never met publicity he didn't hound.

To address what someone else (Sorry, I forgot who) brought up, if you believe in far out conspiracy theories, then child trafficking and snuff films can all be linked to this vast conspiracy of satanists. I'm sure most of you are familiar with the whole Illumaniti nonsense. It goes well beyond just the satanic hysteria of the 80's and into some pretty out there territory. Territory I don't advise you to explore without a tin foil hat affixed firmly to your head. ;)
LaVey was basically a con artist and freely admitted that. The men spent his life mocking religon and made a nice living at it. I dont recall that he ever sacrificed any virgins, killed animals or abused children either. The hysteria is just something created to keep people blind.

But then, there's the line that gets crossed when people start getting thrown in prison based on a satanic witch hunt. That's the real scary stuff!

Not UM-related, but following the recent release of the West Memphis Three from prison, I read Mara Leveritt's book about the case, "Devil's Knot", and man, the elaborate theories about those kids being killed in a satanic cult ritual just seem so silly and ludicrous today. I'm sure those stories seemed genuinely terrifying to a very conservative, religious community like West Memphis in the early nineties, but if the same case had been presented in 2011, it would probably be laughed out of a courtroom (hence why the State wanted to avoid a re-trial at all costs).

But you're right, satanic panic stops being funny once people actually get sent to prison on that theory.

UM related, the Maples reportedly made satanic abuse claims against the Baskins, which for most people is the point where we begin to see how crazy the Maples had become to keep custody of those grandkids.

There are some but no you are right they usually keep that hidden

Ironically, you're now resorting to the same "scare tactics" that you earlier accused Christian churches of using in your delusional, fact-free, bigoted rant.

Get an education and learn how to think, please.

I honestly think the whole concept of "worshipping" Satan is a fallacy. While I do think there were cult-like groups that were featured in UM (like in the Son of Sam segment), I don't think the people involved lived their day to day lives doing everything for their lord, Satan. I just think most people went with this "cults" out of mere curiosity, not because they practiced a religion around a demonic figure.

Ironically, you're now resorting to the same "scare tactics" that you earlier accused Christian churches of using in your delusional, fact-free, bigoted rant.

Get an education and learn how to think, please.
LMAO. OK so you have never heard of leaders in christian churches sexually abusing children?? I can give you plenty of examples if you like. Would you like to debate me idiot or just throw out name calling and ignorance? Are you standing with christian churches? Do you beleive there is a man in the sky reading our thoughts and watching our every move?

Do you believe that if we do what he wants when we die we get to go party with him for eternity? Do you beleive his son came to earth, died and then returned as a zombie and told people how to live? If so I find it laughable that you call me delusional and say my rants are "fact free". Why dont you break loose of your brainwasing and learn how to apply logic and reasoning? Now go back to the herd sheep.

I honestly think the whole concept of "worshipping" Satan is a fallacy. While I do think there were cult-like groups that were featured in UM (like in the Son of Sam segment), I don't think the people involved lived their day to day lives doing everything for their lord, Satan. I just think most people went with this "cults" out of mere curiosity, not because they practiced a religion around a demonic figure.
True..
If you think about it the whole idea makes no sense. Why would someone create a religon that is anti christian but then choose to worship figures that where creations of the bible?

LaVey was basically a con artist and freely admitted that. The men spent his life mocking religon and made a nice living at it. I dont recall that he ever sacrificed any virgins, killed animals or abused children either. The hysteria is just something created to keep people blind.

Oh no doubt. LaVey made no bones about being a con man. In fact, he reveled in it. Much like L. Ron Hubbard, he created a religion and got filthy rich in the process. I've read LaVey's books, he had other uses for virgins. He wasn't just a con man, he was a very horny con man. The hysteria kept people blind and stupid, but it also made others very rich. Of course, now they can only lecture at tent revivals, so I hope they invested their money.

On a side note, your views on religion are very similar to mine. Just thought I'd throw that out there since you've been catching some heat.

Do you believe that if we do what he wants when we die we get to go party with him for eternity?

Yes. We're going to party like it's 1999.

Do you beleive his son came to earth, died and then returned as a zombie and told people how to live?

I think he was born, told people the way they should live, then died and went to Heaven.

If so I find it laughable that you call me delusional and say my rants are "fact free". Why dont you break loose of your brainwasing and learn how to apply logic and reasoning? Now go back to the herd sheep.

Honestly, this is a free country the last time I checked. People can believe what they want to believe. No brain washing necessary.

Yes. We're going to party like it's 1999.



I think he was born, told people the way they should live, then died and went to Heaven.



Honestly, this is a free country the last time I checked. People can believe what they want to believe. No brain washing necessary.

Well I hope you do get to have that party in the sky lol

I think he was born, stood up and fought the power structure and was killed for it like so many others have been. Afterwards some of his followers decided to exploit him for their own gain.

This is anything but a free country so check again. Thats a nice tag line alot of people like to blindly repeat but it has no real meaning. Ofcourse you can beleive whatever you want to and so can I. And yes brainwashing is necessary in order to condition people to beleive certain things and act accordingly

Oh no doubt. LaVey made no bones about being a con man. In fact, he reveled in it. Much like L. Ron Hubbard, he created a religion and got filthy rich in the process. I've read LaVey's books, he had other uses for virgins. He wasn't just a con man, he was a very horny con man. The hysteria kept people blind and stupid, but it also made others very rich. Of course, now they can only lecture at tent revivals, so I hope they invested their money.

On a side note, your views on religion are very similar to mine. Just thought I'd throw that out there since you've been catching some heat.

Thank you for the support.

You look at what Lavey did and I ask how it differs from what many christian leaders do?? They take the name of god and through trickery exploit their followers. Lavey was atleast honest about what he was doing.

Some interesting stuff in this thread.

I turned 18 in 1985, so was a teenager turning into an adult during the whole Satanic Panic thing. I've frequently wondered what could cause such widespread hysteria.

From a short amount of internet research, and reading the posts here, it looks like organized christian religion is considered to be partly to blame. Especially groups described as 'born again' or 'evangelical'.

During this time period, I attended church 2 to 3 times a week at what people could describe as that type of church. (Also attended my in-laws church which was a different denomination, but would fit that description.) I can honestly tell you that never once was there a sermon, discussion, lesson, etc, regarding satan worship, organized or individual satanism, or anything like that. Teens and their parents weren't warned against recruitment efforts by satanists.

Since so many people are connecting this to the christian religion, I'm wondering if the big names of that era, like Jim and Tammy Faye Baker, Jimmy Swaggart, Billy Graham, Paul and Jan Crouch... those types, promoted this stuff on their tv shows. Anyone remember?

I watched a few of their programs, especially Jim and Tammy Faye, for the bizarre entertainment value. I never read any of their books, took none of these people seriously or looked to them as legitimate religious leaders, and never followed their brand of christianity. In fact, I saw them as greedy charlatans, but apparently a lot of people trusted them, or they wouldn't have had so many fans willing to part with their money so these people's dogs could live in air conditioned dog houses. I can definitely see these kinds of televangelists using and promoting the satanic panic to their economic benefit, and non-christians would assume that this was an accurate representation of the beliefs of mainstream christianity.

After reading the reviews of the Satanic Panic book mentioned earlier in the thread, it looks like the book "Michelle Remembers", published in 1980, may have played a big part in convincing people of organized satanic ritualistic abuse of children. I read part of the wikipedia info on it, and I have to say, the events claimed sound preposterous. Here are the opening paragraphs of the wiki article:

Michelle Remembers is a book published in 1980 co-written by Canadian psychiatrist Lawrence Pazder and his psychiatric patient (and eventual wife) Michelle Smith.

A best-seller, Michelle Remembers was the first book written on the subject of satanic ritual abuse and is an important part of the controversies beginning in the 1980s regarding satanic ritual abuse and repressed memory.

The book has been discredited by several investigations which found no corroboration of the book's events, while others have pointed out that the events described in the book were extremely unlikely and in some cases impossible.

Michelle Remembers chronicles Pazder's therapy in the late 1970s with his long-time patient Smith. In 1973 Pazder first started treating Smith at his private psychiatric practice in Victoria, British Columbia. In 1976 when Pazder was treating Smith for depression (related to her having had a miscarriage), Smith confided she felt that she had something important to tell him, but could not remember what it was.

Shortly thereafter, Pazder and Smith had a session where Smith screamed for 25 minutes non-stop and eventually started speaking in the voice of a five-year-old. Over the next 14 months Pazder spent over 600 hours using hypnosis to help Smith recover alleged memories of satanic ritual abuse that occurred when she was five in 1954 and 1955 at the hands of her mother (Virginia Proby) and others, all of whom Smith said were members of a "Satanic cult" in Victoria.

Anyone else aware of this book's effect on the satanic panic hysteria? I never heard of it until today. Apparently, it was initially accepted as true, but was later debunked, since there was no evidence of any kind to support the claims.

Also, as earlier mentioned, this sort of reminds me of the illuminati conspiracies of the 21st century. It seems like every generation has to have their 'boogeyman'. Was the satanic panic the giant conspiracy theory of the 80s era?

----

Just read more of the wiki article. Apparently Oprah may have promoted the Michelle Remembers book on her show, and it was presented as fact on the tv news program 20/20. I can see where the general public would start to believe this stuff when trusted media is reporting it. Also, it was featured in the National Enquirer (oh come on!!!), and People. The author was consulted as an expert on the McMartin Preschool RSA trial. No wonder those people were railroaded.

Pazder [the author] was part of the Cult Crime Impact Network and lectured to police agencies about satanic ritual abuse during the late 1980s. By 1987 Pazder reported that he was spending a third of his time consulting on satanic ritual abuse cases. By September 1990, Pazder had been consulted "in more than 1,000 'ritual abuse' cases". With people suddenly being prosecuted for satanic ritual abuse, prosecutors used the book as a guide when preparing cases against alleged Satanists. Prior to the start of the Kern County child abuse cases several local social workers had attended a training seminar that foregrounded satanic ritual abuse as a major element in child sexual abuse and used Michelle Remembers as training material.

I can't believe police, social workers, and prosecutors were using this sketchy book as an authoritative guide. Here's the wiki link, if you want to read more about what they have to say on the subject of Michelle Remembers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Remembers

TracyLynn,

Michelle Remembers was the cornerstone, so to speak, of the whole hysteria. There were other books written after that one by other psychiatrists who claimed to also have patients suffering from SRA, but Pazder's book sort of set the stage for what was to come. I have read Michelle Remembers, it is completely preposterous. I also read Mike Warnke's book which is equally as preposterous. Satanic Panic deals quite heavily with the McMartin Pre-school abuse scandal. That particular debacle was set off by a chronic alcoholic with serious mental health issues (dual-diagnosis as we call it). She claimed among other things, that he son was sodomized by McMartin's son, several other prominent males in community and a lion (!). How people believed these accusations to be truthful is still beyond me and I've studied the topic extensively. I'm working on my Master's in Psychology at the moment, so being aware of some of the darker sides of my profession is essential. I know I have urged people here to read Satanic Panic once already, but it really is an excellent read for those who grew up in or have an interest in SRA. It should also be noted that Pazder married Michelle. This is a HUGE ethical violation and should have seen his license to practice psychiatry revoked. Having relations with a patient is one of the surest ways to lose your license. Another of Oprah's favorites, Dr. Phil, lost his license for the same thing.

I remember as a child in the 1980's seeing televangelists talk of the satanic conspiracy. I know Pat Robertson of the 700 Club devoted a great deal of time on the subject. Oprah and Phil Donohue as well as Geraldo and I believe Sally Jessie Raphael did as well. I do recall Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker mentioning the subject at least once, however, I would be hard pressed to give an air date, I was only 10 or 11 at the time. Teachers in my school were trained on how to spot "satanic activity" as well. I remember being reprimanded once for having a peace symbol on my book cover as it was supposedly satanic. I was a mouthy kid and I asked the teacher what she was talking about. Her response was that they had just completed training on satanic symbols and this was one of them. So, at least in rural Pennsylvania, there were training sessions on it.

I apologize for droning on and on about the subject. I did research papers on it during my Bachelor's work and it is one of my pet subjects. Sorry to bore you all to tears. :)

Thanks for all that info! It definitely helps me to understand what was going on and what contributed to this whole thing.

And it's very worrisome to see that officials, including teachers, were being trained in something that turned out to basically be a dangerous fraud.

I can't believe police, social workers, and prosecutors were using this sketchy book as an authoritative guide.

Well, look at all the "experts" who made countless dollars on being so-called "experts" and lecturing at law enforcement gatherings, teacher conventions, etc. Big bucks to be had in making people scared.

Ah, the Satanic Panic of the 80's. So many misguided talkshow hosts and interview programs fell for its trap. At least Geraldo finally admitted that he'd be taken for a fool by it all. But it makes a helluva good story (no pun intended) to say that black-robed, heavy-metal-listening, blood-drinking demented satanists are the cause of such mayhem...

I was 20 years old in 1985 and I completely agree that the whole Satan Worship thing was waaaay overused in the 80's Did it happen? Probably. Probably just as not as much as law enforcement wants to believe.

On a different note - did UM ever do a story on the McMartin Preschool of the early 80's?

On a different note - did UM ever do a story on the McMartin Preschool of the early 80's?

No, but Lifetime aired a couple movies about the case.

I don't believe anyone actually "worshipped" Satan, ever. I think sometimes people may have indulged in Pagan activities, Medieval activities, etc. and that got confused as "satan worship".

I was 20 years old in 1985 and I completely agree that the whole Satan Worship thing was waaaay overused in the 80's Did it happen? Probably. Probably just as not as much as law enforcement wants to believe.

On a different note - did UM ever do a story on the McMartin Preschool of the early 80's?
Logically Satan worship makes no sense. Satan is a being created in the bible. Therefore Satan is a creation of Christians. So to call yourself a Satan worshipper you would have to beileve in the Bible and have your God furnished to you by the very people you are fighting against. Doesnt add up does it.

UM never did a story on Mcmartin preschool but there was a movie made about that case. It was another terrible example of satanic panic. Also a nice example of how a counselor can place false memories into the brain of a child and basically get them to say anything

Logically Satan worship makes no sense. Satan is a being created in the bible. Therefore Satan is a creation of Christians. So to call yourself a Satan worshipper you would have to beileve in the Bible and have your God furnished to you by the very people you are fighting against. Doesnt add up does it.

I'm not an expert in world religions, but aren't there other belief systems, besides Christianity, that recognize "good" and "evil" supernatural beings?

Muslims believe that Allah created Iblis (their satan) out of fire. They believe that he plants evil ideas in people's minds and causes them to commit sins.

There must be other religions besides Islam and Christianity that believe in an evil, devil/satan, being. I'm sure the concept is not exclusive to one religion.

I'm not an expert in world religions, but aren't there other belief systems, besides Christianity, that recognize "good" and "evil" supernatural beings?

Muslims believe that Allah created Iblis (their satan) out of fire. They believe that he plants evil ideas in people's minds and causes them to commit sins.

There must be other religions besides Islam and Christianity that believe in an evil, devil/satan, being. I'm sure the concept is not exclusive to one religion.
You are correct. However the post was specific to Satan worship and Satan is specific to the christian bible. Nearly all religons follow the same premise of there is an evil force out there looking to destroy you so follow us and give us your money so that you will be protected.

You are correct. However the post was specific to Satan worship and Satan is specific to the christian bible. Nearly all religons follow the same premise of there is an evil force out there looking to destroy you so follow us and give us your money so that you will be protected.

I understand what you're saying now. It makes sense that it would be a predominately Christian society that would experience this kind of specific Satanic Panic.

It would be interesting to know if there have been similar phenomena in other religious cultures and if they were as widespread as what we saw in the 80s and 90s.

There are certainly other cultures where similar things have happened. I've read about "witches" in Africa and the like being killed because it was believed they were doing evil things. I don't think we've seen anything on such a large scale as the whole Satanic Panic hysteria though. There are still people in prison to this day behind that whole debacle.

I understand what you're saying now. It makes sense that it would be a predominately Christian society that would experience this kind of specific Satanic Panic.

It would be interesting to know if there have been similar phenomena in other religious cultures and if they were as widespread as what we saw in the 80s and 90s.
Well sure, look whats been going on in the middle east for as long as we can remember. Nearly every war or major conflict since the dawn of man has been about either religon or wealth. If you look at the big picture you see the satanic panic in the 80s was a small drop in the bucket. Hell Christians in this country just not too long ago where burning people alive they believed to be witches. Gotta wonder who we should really fear.lol

Well sure, look whats been going on in the middle east for as long as we can remember. Nearly every war or major conflict since the dawn of man has been about either religon or wealth. If you look at the big picture you see the satanic panic in the 80s was a small drop in the bucket. Hell Christians in this country just not too long ago where burning people alive they believed to be witches. Gotta wonder who we should really fear.lol

Jesus never burned anyone at the stake, never killed anyone, never encouraged anyone to start wars, in fact he encouraged them to do just the opposite. And if mankind lived like he said to, there would be no wars.

You want to know what the faith is all about, you don't look at anything any man does. Nelson DeCloud was raping and enslaving women and claiming he was doing it in the name of Christ, thats no different than people who burned others at the stake.

But those people are not representitives of what Christ stood for, they are only claiming that to lend themselves credibility and serve their own greedy and selfish desires.

Jesus never burned anyone at the stake, never killed anyone, never encouraged anyone to start wars, in fact he encouraged them to do just the opposite. And if mankind lived like he said to, there would be no wars.

You want to know what the faith is all about, you don't look at anything any man does. Nelson DeCloud was raping and enslaving women and claiming he was doing it in the name of Christ, thats no different than people who burned others at the stake.

But those people are not representitives of what Christ stood for, they are only claiming that to lend themselves credibility and serve their own greedy and selfish desires.
Excuse me, did I ever speculate that Jesus burned anyone? No I didn't . Christians have nothing in common with Christ. They simply exploit him for profit.

Excuse me, did I ever speculate that Jesus burned anyone? No I didn't . Christians have nothing in common with Christ. They simply exploit him for profit.

Not all of them do. I don't, I have a relationship with Jesus and have never made a cent off it other than from the blessings he has chosen to bestow upon me. I never burned anyone at the stake, nor have I molested any children or any of the other things people sometimes associate with Christians.

Am I perfect? Most certainly not. But I still take seriously his final commandment to love my fellow man and believe in his salvation. Thats what makes a real Christian, not the misguided exploiters you seem to associate with the faith.

The bottom line is you seem to be judgeing the faith on what people who claim to be Christians do, you look at Christ to know what its about, not anyone else.

Not to delve too deeply into the theological debate here, but Christians also seem to be the only group who get the convenience of claiming that Christians who commit crimes are not "true" Christians. Any time a Wiccan or Pagan or a Satanist for that matter says that someone who claimed to be of one of those faiths is not a "true" Wiccan, Pagan, Satanist, they're met with a "oh, suuuuuure they aren't." Christians seem to be able to say it and we're not to question it. The bottom line for me is, if it works one way, it works the opposite way. In other words, if I can't distance myself from the misguided Pagans who do stupid stuff then Christians can't distance themselves from other Christians who do stupid stuff. Many of us have been unfairly judged, preached at and at times threatened by Christians. After a while, we tend to distrust and dislike.

Kane, your post reminded me of my favorite quote from Gandhi "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Not to delve too deeply into the theological debate here, but Christians also seem to be the only group who get the convenience of claiming that Christians who commit crimes are not "true" Christians. Any time a Wiccan or Pagan or a Satanist for that matter says that someone who claimed to be of one of those faiths is not a "true" Wiccan, Pagan, Satanist, they're met with a "oh, suuuuuure they aren't." Christians seem to be able to say it and we're not to question it. The bottom line for me is, if it works one way, it works the opposite way. In other words, if I can't distance myself from the misguided Pagans who do stupid stuff then Christians can't distance themselves from other Christians who do stupid stuff. Many of us have been unfairly judged, preached at and at times threatened by Christians. After a while, we tend to distrust and dislike.

Kane, your post reminded me of my favorite quote from Gandhi "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

I don't necessarily agree with this. If it's not general practice for Pagans, Wiccans, or any other religion other than Christian to practice something, let's say murder for example, than anytime someone does it they're not going to be "true" to their religion. Most religions do not condone murder in any way, shape, or form. So if one were to commit murder, they obviously would be distanced from said religion as not a "true" practitioner.

Not to delve too deeply into the theological debate here, but Christians also seem to be the only group who get the convenience of claiming that Christians who commit crimes are not "true" Christians. Any time a Wiccan or Pagan or a Satanist for that matter says that someone who claimed to be of one of those faiths is not a "true" Wiccan, Pagan, Satanist, they're met with a "oh, suuuuuure they aren't." Christians seem to be able to say it and we're not to question it. The bottom line for me is, if it works one way, it works the opposite way. In other words, if I can't distance myself from the misguided Pagans who do stupid stuff then Christians can't distance themselves from other Christians who do stupid stuff. Many of us have been unfairly judged, preached at and at times threatened by Christians. After a while, we tend to distrust and dislike.

Kane, your post reminded me of my favorite quote from Gandhi "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

I can't speak for other religions, but with Christianity, the reason they can legitmately distance themselves from people who act contrary to the faith is because the Bible, and the teachings of Christ make a clear outline of how men should live. And if there are people who blatantly live everyday contrary to the teachings, then we can legitmately say they aren't truly Christians, its not us saying they are not, but God saying they are not.

As far as I know, Wiccans or Pagans have never had anyone visit the Earth and establish clear guidelines on how Wiccans and Pagans should live.

The Muslims do have the Koran, I honestly don't know enough from that book to know whether or not they live by it. I've heard some people say the Koran condones murder and some say it doesn't, so its hard to tell. However I wouldn't be being true to my own faith if I thought Islam was anything but the doctrine of a false prophet.

But this goes back to what I said, you look only at Christ to know what Christianity is about, not anyone else. Anyone living contrary to his teachings does not truly have his spirit in them. So its not truly Christians who say that, but its God himself.

I hesitate to call Christianity a religion, because its really not, but rather a relationship.

All due respect to you, Cars, but you have never experienced what I and many others have. It's easy to disagree when you haven't been there. If you look at, say the West Memphis Three case and contrast it with the Paula Yates case, for example, you'll see what I'm talking about. When Yates killed her children,nobody in their right mind would have said that Christianity condones murdering your children (though the Old Testament does in fact), it is not something modern Christians condone nor practice. Christians have the right to say she's not truly one of us but in her mind, she certainly was. What you have there is a mentally ill woman who happens to be Christian. If anyone even suggested that Christians are dangerous people who kill their children, they'd be lambasted to no end and rightfully so.

Now, look at the WM3 case. One supposed Wiccan (who merely dabbled) and all of the sudden, people firmly believe that Wiccans murder children. Hell, even the expert witness for the prosecution fed into that fire. When actual Wiccans, Pagans and Satanists stood up and said we don't do those things nor do we condone those things, nobody listened or believed it. Nobody was lambasted for stating that these faiths advocate killing children and animals, it was accepted as fact. Around this same time, I had a friend who was court ordered to not practice his religion around his child as it was deemed harmful to her. This was part of a divorce where "experts" claimed the father was also an animal killing Satan worshiper. So, no, we do not get to distance ourselves from that sort of thing, not even in the eyes of the court system.

XCalbiur, I fail to see what someone coming to earth to tell me how to live has to do with the hypocrisy of the situation. We don't believe that one divine entity holds the key to how we should live, but that has nothing to do with anything really. Christ didn't write the Bible, men did. whether or not they were divinely inspired to do so depends upon what you believe. You believe they were, I believe they were not. There's room enough for both views and all views in between.

Not to delve too deeply into the theological debate here, but Christians also seem to be the only group who get the convenience of claiming that Christians who commit crimes are not "true" Christians. Any time a Wiccan or Pagan or a Satanist for that matter says that someone who claimed to be of one of those faiths is not a "true" Wiccan, Pagan, Satanist, they're met with a "oh, suuuuuure they aren't." Christians seem to be able to say it and we're not to question it. The bottom line for me is, if it works one way, it works the opposite way. In other words, if I can't distance myself from the misguided Pagans who do stupid stuff then Christians can't distance themselves from other Christians who do stupid stuff. Many of us have been unfairly judged, preached at and at times threatened by Christians. After a while, we tend to distrust and dislike.

Kane, your post reminded me of my favorite quote from Gandhi "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
Yes and Gandhi was right on the money with that quote. He like Jesus stood up to the power structure and was killed for it. Likewise his followers decided to expoit him for profit also.
I have to ask what wars did wiccans start? Do pagans control billions upon billions of dollars?? What so called " Satanist" ever lead 900 of his followers to their deaths by drinking poison Kool aid? All this can easily be said about Christians and as far as Im concerend they cant distance themselves from it.

Hell right here where I live the arch diocese of Kansas city (catholic) is being prosecuted for covering up the abuse of children for over 30 years by its sickening priests. This isnt just a few bad seeds this is the church, as a whole covering up a crime and they should all be punished accordingly. Now the low life bishop is asking people to pray for them. Are you f-ing kidding me?? Show me a story about a Pagan or Wiccan that can top this.

All due respect to you, Cars, but you have never experienced what I and many others have. It's easy to disagree when you haven't been there. If you look at, say the West Memphis Three case and contrast it with the Paula Yates case, for example, you'll see what I'm talking about. When Yates killed her children,nobody in their right mind would have said that Christianity condones murdering your children (though the Old Testament does in fact), it is not something modern Christians condone nor practice. Christians have the right to say she's not truly one of us but in her mind, she certainly was. What you have there is a mentally ill woman who happens to be Christian. If anyone even suggested that Christians are dangerous people who kill their children, they'd be lambasted to no end and rightfully so.

Now, look at the WM3 case. One supposed Wiccan (who merely dabbled) and all of the sudden, people firmly believe that Wiccans murder children. Hell, even the expert witness for the prosecution fed into that fire. When actual Wiccans, Pagans and Satanists stood up and said we don't do those things nor do we condone those things, nobody listened or believed it. Nobody was lambasted for stating that these faiths advocate killing children and animals, it was accepted as fact. Around this same time, I had a friend who was court ordered to not practice his religion around his child as it was deemed harmful to her. This was part of a divorce where "experts" claimed the father was also an animal killing Satan worshiper. So, no, we do not get to distance ourselves from that sort of thing, not even in the eyes of the court system.

XCalbiur, I fail to see what someone coming to earth to tell me how to live has to do with the hypocrisy of the situation. We don't believe that one divine entity holds the key to how we should live, but that has nothing to do with anything really. Christ didn't write the Bible, men did. whether or not they were divinely inspired to do so depends upon what you believe. You believe they were, I believe they were not. There's room enough for both views and all views in between.

We can put it really simple here by saying that following a religon makes people stupid and inept. Whether its acts of terrorism or believing a man in the sky is watching you at all times or that going to church somehow makes you a better person, its all ignorance. Religon has had to change over the years as science and evolution prove it more and more false.

If God was truly real then why would his rules change? Why would his words change? Why would we need an old and new testement? Did God not get it right the first time? How could that be? lol. The opening line of the bible says god created the earth in 7 days and then created man. Now we know full well that man was not the first living being on this planet.
They did not know that when the bible was made up. Put two and two together here.

If someone wants to model their life after Jesus and take his teachings as a philosophy then more power to them. However few people calling themselves christians have a clue what that means and no organized religon has anything in common with Jesus. Our religous institutions of today look much like the very organizations that Jesus lambasted in his time.

I hate seeing Wiccans and Satanists defended in the same sentence. Wicca is an earth religion. The first two tenets a Wiccan learns is "Be it that thou harmest none, do thou as thou wilt" and "Everything you do comes back to you threefold." While there are different sects of Wicca, those two themes prevail.

Anyone performing sacrificial rituals of animals or people is NOT a Wiccan. It is about respecting the earth and spirit and the gifts they bestow, water, air, fire, water and spirit.

While both Satanists and Wiccans use a pentacle (wrought) and a pentagram (drawn) as their symbol, you'll note a subtle but vital difference. In the Wiccan pentacle, the star is upright, with the single point of the spirit being above the elements, the Satanic pentacle is inverted, with the spirit below the elements.

All of that being said, the 80s Satanic Panic was absurd. If you played D&D clearly you HAD to have been sacrificing squirrels in the backyard with a ritualistic knife. If you wore a crystal necklace and flowy skirts, you had to have been dancing skyclad in the woods and engaging in massive orgies. And heaven forbid you buy an Ozzy album to tick off your parents, it was off to deprogramming for you!

In the wise words of a bumper sticker "God save me from your followers"

I hate seeing Wiccans and Satanists defended in the same sentence. Wicca is an earth religion. The first two tenets a Wiccan learns is "Be it that thou harmest none, do thou as thou wilt" and "Everything you do comes back to you threefold." While there are different sects of Wicca, those two themes prevail.

Anyone performing sacrificial rituals of animals or people is NOT a Wiccan. It is about respecting the earth and spirit and the gifts they bestow, water, air, fire, water and spirit.

While both Satanists and Wiccans use a pentacle (wrought) and a pentagram (drawn) as their symbol, you'll note a subtle but vital difference. In the Wiccan pentacle, the star is upright, with the single point of the spirit being above the elements, the Satanic pentacle is inverted, with the spirit below the elements.

All of that being said, the 80s Satanic Panic was absurd. If you played D&D clearly you HAD to have been sacrificing squirrels in the backyard with a ritualistic knife. If you wore a crystal necklace and flowy skirts, you had to have been dancing skyclad in the woods and engaging in massive orgies. And heaven forbid you buy an Ozzy album to tick off your parents, it was off to deprogramming for you!

In the wise words of a bumper sticker "God save me from your followers"
Well Wicca is a real religon/philosophy and satanism is fake. Christians lump them together because according to them anything that is not Christian belief is indeed Satanism. It's basically if your not with us your against us. They beleive that Atheism,Islam, Hindu, Wiccan, Paganism etc etc are all works of the devil. I have even heard them say that martial arts are of the devil and Im talking leaders of Christian churches here not just a few goofy members.
Christian religon is nothing but a marketing scheme and they made alot of money with satanic panic. Unfortunately they ruined alot of lives in the process and hurt alot of innocent people.

So I ask you all: why? Was there something about the 80's that there was a great satan scare?

at the time it was the craze. the birth of hair metal- all sporting devil horns, "satan" inspired lyrics, logos, band names and (supposedly) looks. i distinctly remember michael jackson had to include a disclaimer at the beginning on his video for 'thriller' because he had been accused of including satanic messages within the song.

a few years later, everyone was playing their records backwards and swearing there were hidden messages telling them to kill themselves- or someone else.


I guess my question is how many, if any, of these really involved satan worshiping or was UM capitializing on the hype of the day? :confused:

most likely none involved "real" satan worshiping- though i'm sure all would probably like to think they did- and most likely swear up and down the devil was somehow involved. i'm sure um dressed up the episodes as involving satan worshiping as it was either ruled as part of the cause or to make the episode more interesting and catch audience attention.



This brings up another topic mentioned a few times on UM that was also rumored to be a horror in the 80's: snuff films. Those are (supposedly) amateur movies made with kids where the child was killed, usually after being raped. I remember hearing a lot about this when I was a kid and then later through junior high, high school, and college.

Turns out, it was all hype.

this is slippery territory as the original ideas began in the 60s when filmmakers began to cross the line between authentic acting/violence with drama. eventually the italians began staging documentaries with incredibly controversial topics then blurring things further by editing in actual footage (mostly stolen) of real atrocities in 3rd world countries.

by the 80s, this was (an almost) burgeoning genre- but by this time, the only "real snuff" you saw was on the 9 o'clock news.

I don't believe anyone actually "worshipped" Satan, ever. I think sometimes people may have indulged in Pagan activities, Medieval activities, etc. and that got confused as "satan worship".

actually there were people that "worshiped" satan- or thought they were worshiping satan. where it gets tricky, and a little amusing, is that what is supposedly considered real satan worshiping (calling up the devil and that kind of stuff) actually involves going through a hierarchy of demons (or spirits depending on how you like to think about this stuff).

personally i never believed in all this stuff and i never understood why anyone else would. i did however meet 2 guys about 10 years ago who were really into all this and considered themselves experts on the matter. in for a penny, in for a pound i suppose.

at the time it was the craze. the birth of hair metal- all sporting devil horns, "satan" inspired lyrics, logos, band names and (supposedly) looks.

Yep. I think a lot of it started when bands were looking for some kind of gimmick to appeal to rebelling teenagers, create shock value, and would be controversial enough to keep people talking about them.

Black Sabbath comes to mind. Of course, now we know Ozzie is a tottering, incoherent, papaw who can't find the toilet (or is he? lol) and not the spawn of satan. But remember when he "bit the head off a bat"?

And what band created all that controversy when their album cover featured upside down crosses? I can't remember if it was Black Sabbath, or Judas Priest, or some other group.

The bands of that era had a lot of pentagrams, demons, undead, skulls, the grim reaper, and all that other sort of stuff on their cover art. Heck, they're all still doing it now, but it just doesn't have the same impact as when we first saw a demon performing a human sacrifice on a bloody altar in the fiery pits of hell. :D

Yep. I think a lot of it started when bands were looking for some kind of gimmick to appeal to rebelling teenagers, create shock value, and would be controversial enough to keep people talking about them.

Black Sabbath comes to mind. Of course, now we know Ozzie is a tottering, incoherent, papaw who can't find the toilet (or is he? lol) and not the spawn of satan. But remember when he "bit the head off a bat"?

And what band created all that controversy when their album cover featured upside down crosses? I can't remember if it was Black Sabbath, or Judas Priest, or some other group.

The bands of that era had a lot of pentagrams, demons, undead, skulls, the grim reaper, and all that other sort of stuff on their cover art. Heck, they're all still doing it now, but it just doesn't have the same impact as when we first saw a demon performing a human sacrifice on a bloody altar in the fiery pits of hell. :D

And don't forget that evil Alice Cooper! :rock:

actually there were people that "worshiped" satan- or thought they were worshiping satan.


I agree. Obviously most of the 'satanic' cases (on UM and elsewhere) were just a bunch of drug addled or mentally disturbed people, a small minority whose perception was their reality. The motives for the crimes were of the garden variety sort, but add some metal music and ritual roleplaying and it suddently became a satanic conspiracy. It's far easier to expunge 'satanic' elements (or witchcraft, judaism, anabaptism, etc.) from communities than spousal/child abuse, drug abuse, and income inequality.

A series of pretty gruesome homicides, not necessarily strictly satanic, but performing human sacrifice in santeria and palo mayombe rituals, is Adolfo Constanzo's cult in Mexico back in the 1980's. Some of the cult members actually kidnapped a Texas college student in order to sacrifice him, but even in that context Constanzo comes across more as a Jim Jones than a fervent worshipper.

I'm about a third of the way through the book, Satanic Panic. It's not a page turner and some of it almost reads like a textbook, but there's lots of interesting info in there so far.

I can't believe how deeply ingrained this crazy belief in widespread satan worship was. According to the book, the accepted wisdom was that these activities were highly organized, the various groups were connected to each other, and they were actively recruiting new followers.

It makes a lot more sense now, when I hear the cop in the Rachael Runyan case saying that they have believable information that Rachael was used in a snuff film and then he asks for a copy of it to be sent in, no questions asked.

This "snuff film" thing was believed to be one of the satan worshiper's main activities. I wouldn't be surprised if the cop in the Runyan case had just completed a training course in satanic ritual abuse when he was interviewed for the UM segment.

Another thing I noticed is that when I'm reading up on old unsolved cases from the panic era, many of them still say something like "this did not appear to be a ritualistic murder". I'll read that and be thinking, what the heck is going on in that area that they felt that they had to rule out ritual killing!? Then I notice the year of the crime and realize that they're probably quoting 20 year old information they got out of the original reports.

It's hard to believe how many innocent people have been arrested and even gone to prison over imaginary things that "experts" claimed were fact. It also looks like a lot of investigative time was wasted ruling out satanism when the cops could have been actually looking for real clues to solving crimes.

Satanic panic and the whole idea that there are crazed killer cults out there was all put by christian churches in an attempt to make themselves relevant in modern day America. In the 80s it became popular for churches to try and scare people into joining them. Using scare tactics is ofcourse nothing new. Tell the parents that Satan is all around their children so that they bring them to church at an early age so they can be protected from such evils.

Unfortunatley many in the music and movie business decided to cash in on the hysteria that the churches created. Many musicians put out songs that seemed to pay homage to this satan person in an effort to cash in and there was no shortage of movies about devil worshipping cults murdering people. This just fed into the nonsense even more.

Bottom line is that Satan was created by Christians so that they would have an enemy. For someone to proclaim they are a Satanist would mean that they believe in the Bible. This is why none of it makes a lick of sense.

The truly scary cults to me are the ones that claim to be on the side of good. The ones who wear white robes and speak of eternal life and happines in order to win over people's trust and make them feel at ease. This year alone in my hometown we have had three catholic preists sued for molesting children. One of them named 'Sean Rattigan" was making kiddy porn in the church itself. This was brought to the attention of the arch diosease and they did not turn him over to police but instead moved him to another church. So you people who say there are just bad apples but the religon as a whole is good are wrong. The church covers up and uses your donations to fight legal battles for pedofiles. I have read no stories of Satan worshipers molesting children yet but am waiting.
Here are some truly scary cult people,

Jim Jones- Christian who murdered over 900 of his followers

David Koresh- Christian who led over one hundred of his followers to their demise
Timothy Mcveigh- Christian who bombed OKC federal building

911 Hijackers-Muslims who murdered over 3000 Americans

The salem witch trials, The crusades, etc etc
Lets look at facts not fiction and see who the truly dangerous people are here
http://i39.tinypic.com/an24rd.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/rc7sav.jpg

You are absoloutely correct. Many people have done terrible things that they claim were in the name of Christianity, that doesn't make them Christians. They were merely using that title to put up some semblance of justification for their actions. Those things are not what Jesus stood for, and anyone doing them is not truly a follower of Him.

They are exactly the ones who will go up to Jesus in the end time and tell them they did great works in his name, and he will say depart from me I never knew you.............


Matthew 7:23:

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

One point of clarification, the pentagram your showed, with one point up, is actually a pagan symbol, not a satanic one. The satanic pentagram is inverted. The divine is the point on the top of the star, the other four points are the four elements. With the single point (the divine) above the elements, it is a pagan, Wiccan, or New Age symbol. The divine above the world. The satanic pentagram has the four elements above the divine, the divine BELOW the world.
This point was often lost in the 80s and led to innocent New Agers and Wiccans being labeled Satanists.

You are absoloutely correct. Many people have done terrible things that they claim were in the name of Christianity, that doesn't make them Christians....

Which reminds me of Tony Alamo, Nelson DeCloud, and their ilk. They claim to be christians but they are criminals conveniently using a popular religion as a tool to gain their victim's trust and to cover their crimes.

Another thing the bible says about christians: You will know them by their fruits. In other words, what do these people who are claiming to be christians produce? Do they produce good things, or evil? If their behaviors are evil, then they aren't christians at all. They are manipulating liars and charlatans and no one should allow themselves to be fooled and victimized by these kinds of people.

Matthew 7 -

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?

17 Even so every good tree [person] brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree [person] brings forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Let's not forget the Crusades, the Inquisition and more recently, The Troubles in Northern Ireland.

Oops. I see the Crusades were mentioned.
My bad.

In a lot of instances, UM was also quick to say "serial killer" in any broadcast with a murder. But I guess since the 1980's was the emergence of interest in the "modern" serial killer, then it's not hard to believe cops and investigators thinking it might be a serial murder when conducting an investigation. "If it wasn't a satanist doing it, then it was probably a serial killer."

The Mike Reimer case in particular is what makes me think of this - nothing in what was aired would have lead me to think that his disappearance and the murder of this girlfriend was related to a serial killer, or that he himself might have been one...

Is anyone following the story of the 3 skulls recently found in Winter Garden, FL? A new development is being built there and a man installing the plumbing for a pool discovered a partial skull. Authorities were called and they found two more skulls plus a purse that contained a newspaper clipping from 1978.

My first thought was that these were victims of the serial killer, Gerald Stano, who was executed in 1998.

But in the article linked below, Dr. Jan Garavaglia (Dr. G) says the skulls are not all from the same time period. She also says "the skulls may have been from a ritual of some kind".

What does she mean? Surely she's not referring to what we're discussing here, the satanic ritual scare. I assume she's already familiar with the debunking that's been done on that subject.

By the skulls being from different time periods and used in a ritual, could she be implying that these skulls could have been taken by grave robbers who used them for whatever activity they were into and then left them in the woods? If this was grave robber activity, the purse found near the skulls wouldn't belong to any of the deceased. I wonder what the heck is going on with this case, especially since the word ritual was brought up by the ME.

BTW, none of the skulls were complete with jawbones and tests are being done to see if this was deliberate or happened naturally, none showed signs of trauma, and no other bones were found with the skulls. Officials called off the search for other bones very early in the investigation and I don't know why they made that decision.

http://www.wesh.com/r/30352152/detail.html

Here's more on the RITUAL involvement in the case of skulls found in Winter Garden Florida. They now believe that one is definitely a male and that there are only two skulls, not three as originally reported.

The bone fragments had shredded newspaper stuffed in them. They are stating that this is what had been previously reported as a newspaper clipping found in a purse.

I wish these reporters would get their facts straight. How is anyone supposed to understand what's going on if a reporter's notes are so sloppy, he can't tell the difference between a newspaper clipping found inside a purse compared to shredded newspaper stuffed inside the bone fragments of a dead body!

The remains were discovered on a piece of land that once home to thousands of migrant workers. The settlement was called Harlem Heights and was inhabited by people from many different backgrounds, including Black, White, Mexican, Jamaican, Dominican, and Haitian.

But what is the "ritual" aspect? Does this match any known burial practices for people of these different cultures? Or was something sinister happening? One of the last people to live in Harlem Heights (most everyone had moved out by the 1990s and she stayed on until 2005) said there were rumors of strange religious practices going on, but she never witnessed anything personally.

The article mentions that there was a deadly typhoid outbreak in camps like this back in the 1970s, but doesn't speculate on whether or not that had anything to do with the remains that were discovered.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-02-02/business/os-skulls-bones-human-remains-20120201_1_migrant-camps-skulls-migrant-worker-camp

Still reading "Satanic Panic". I'm about 3/4 through now. The author has almost completely abandoned objectivity and is critiquing political campaign methods and politicians of the era who didn't have anything to do with the SP phenomenon.

It's also pretty obvious that he thinks christians are a bunch of uneducated, superstitious, ignorant hicks... but I had already expected the book to go in that direction.

In most of the middle of the book, he's getting completely away from SP and into what kind of psychology he thinks is behind it. He says every society sets up scapegoats and that we pretend to like each other to our faces, but actually attack the scapegoat as a way of attacking each other in a socially acceptable way.

One example he uses is that catholics and evangelical christians hate each other, but it's not proper to attack each other publicly, so to vent their frustrations, both groups got on board with the satanic panic, attacking "the satanists" as a proxy for people of the religion that they actually hated.

I can understand what he's getting at, but the way he's going about explaining it makes it sound like a far fetched theory. (Yes, I know about the deadly protestant/catholic violence, I just don't think it's a relevant component of the satanic panic thing.)

And back onto the subject of the skulls found in Winter Park Florida.... Just this past week in a FL cemetery, graves were broken into.

AGAIN!

This appears to be occurring with some regularity there.

Some of the bodies just had the heads removed. Is this the kind of "ritual" Dr. G is talking about when she say the Winter Park skulls were used in a ritual and were from different time periods?

This has a whole satanic panicky feel about it, but it's not imaginary. People really are stealing bodies and body parts. WTH?


http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/21006644107695/more-graves-found-desecrated-at-cemetery/

Partial quote:

Grave discoveries continued at a South Florida cemetery after more coffins were found desecrated.

Miami-Dade Police were called to the scene of Lincoln Park Cemetery in Miami, Wednesday, after people visiting the cemetery discovered the bodies of deceased babies missing from their graves. The bones of adults were also found scattered across the cemetery.

At least three babies have been taken from their vaults, leaving people in the area horrified.

The cement covers of at least five adults have been smashed and bones have been removed.

A dead chicken has been placed in one of the vacant vaults by the vandals, further raising the suspicion of the cemetery owner, Ellen Johnson, who is convinced it is the work of people who practice Voodoo or Santeria rituals.

"Emphasizes magic, has a use for human bones," explained Dr. Albert Wuaku, Professor of Religious Studies at Florida International University. "They need to protect themselves, they need to protect their klans against evil forces."

On Tuesday, a woman visiting the cemetery discovered a baby boy's stone tomb cracked open only to find the child's head missing. Community members patched up the vault before the new vandalism was discovered. "A little boy with a green suit- head is gone."

One point of clarification, the pentagram your showed, with one point up, is actually a pagan symbol, not a satanic one. The satanic pentagram is inverted. The divine is the point on the top of the star, the other four points are the four elements. With the single point (the divine) above the elements, it is a pagan, Wiccan, or New Age symbol. The divine above the world. The satanic pentagram has the four elements above the divine, the divine BELOW the world.
This point was often lost in the 80s and led to innocent New Agers and Wiccans being labeled Satanists.
http://i43.tinypic.com/i3s8pw.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/i3s8pw.jpg

Ironically, I am actually an ordained minister. And, barring surgery I never intend to get, I shall never be a fellow. :happyface

You're totally welcome, I like comparative religions and religious imagery.

Ironically, I am actually an ordained minister. And, barring surgery I never intend to get, I shall never be a fellow. :happyface

You're totally welcome, I like comparative religions and religious imagery.
http://i44.tinypic.com/x0oea9.jpg

Ha. Actually, the name necco comes from a candy "necco wafers", New England Confectionary Company. My name is terribly female and quite generic American. And I'm ordained in that online church that will ordain anyone. I love your terribly artistic posts and am not the least bit offended. Thanks for the world. Maybe I can do something about that whole world peace thing now that I have it. :)

Hilarious "60 Minutes" episode hosted by Ed Bradley about the "dangers" of "Dungeons and Dragons."

http://www.dangerousminds.net/comments/60_minutes_on_dungeons_and_dragons_from_19851

Satanic panic and the whole idea that there are crazed killer cults out there was all put by christian churches in an attempt to make themselves relevant in modern day America. In the 80s it became popular for churches to try and scare people into joining them. Using scare tactics is ofcourse nothing new. Tell the parents that Satan is all around their children so that they bring them to church at an early age so they can be protected from such evils.

Unfortunatley many in the music and movie business decided to cash in on the hysteria that the churches created. Many musicians put out songs that seemed to pay homage to this satan person in an effort to cash in and there was no shortage of movies about devil worshipping cults murdering people. This just fed into the nonsense even more.

Bottom line is that Satan was created by Christians so that they would have an enemy. For someone to proclaim they are a Satanist would mean that they believe in the Bible. This is why none of it makes a lick of sense.

The truly scary cults to me are the ones that claim to be on the side of good. The ones who wear white robes and speak of eternal life and happines in order to win over people's trust and make them feel at ease. This year alone in my hometown we have had three catholic preists sued for molesting children. One of them named 'Sean Rattigan" was making kiddy porn in the church itself. This was brought to the attention of the arch diosease and they did not turn him over to police but instead moved him to another church. So you people who say there are just bad apples but the religon as a whole is good are wrong. The church covers up and uses your donations to fight legal battles for pedofiles. I have read no stories of Satan worshipers molesting children yet but am waiting.
Here are some truly scary cult people,

Jim Jones- Christian who murdered over 900 of his followers

David Koresh- Christian who led over one hundred of his followers to their demise
Timothy Mcveigh- Christian who bombed OKC federal building

911 Hijackers-Muslims who murdered over 3000 Americans

The salem witch trials, The crusades, etc etc
Lets look at facts not fiction and see who the truly dangerous people are here
Jim Jones was actually an athiest preaching himself as God. He wasn't a Christian.

Jim Jones was actually an athiest preaching himself as God. He wasn't a Christian.

really? do you have some proof? because as far as i know he was fanatically christian since a very early age.

really? do you have some proof? because as far as i know he was fanatically christian since a very early age.
http://curiouspresbyterian.wordpress.com/2011/03/09/famous-atheists-jim-jones-yes-really/
Jones was raised as a Christian, but later revoked the belief system. He merely took the preaching style he saw as a child.

wow, very interesting. never knew that. thanks for the link

http://curiouspresbyterian.wordpress.com/2011/03/09/famous-atheists-jim-jones-yes-really/
Jones was raised as a Christian, but later revoked the belief system. He merely took the preaching style he saw as a child.

Even so, it hardly matters. Everyone is a sinner. The only difference between Christians and Atheists is that Christians have sought and received forgiveness for their sins, Atheists have not because they don't believe in God to go before him.

And like I said to name all these people who have done terrible things they were claiming to do in the name of Christianity and use it to tarnish the faith itself is merely a way of promoting hatred towards the faith. Jesus encouraged people to do none of these things, his teachings are against the things all these people did. I cannot judge whether or not Timothy McVeigh, Jim Jones, or any of those guys were Christians. That is in someone's heart. The only I can do is point that in God's word, the things they did were an abandonment of the Christian faith and were contrary to the teachings of Jesus, therefore its a falsehood to say they were done in the name of Christianity.

Bottom line is, if you wish to know what Christianity is about, you look at Jesus. No one else, or not anything anyone does.

I have family members who made the same mistake, they denounced Christianity for a long time because of people doing things they didn't like who claimed to be Christians. They realized the error of their ways and are followers and believers in Christ now.

More info on those three, later changed to two, skulls that were found in Winter Garden Florida, located with a purse and a pre-1978 newspaper clipping, discussed upthread.

The Daily Mail, has an article stating that they are almost 1,000 years old and are Peruvian or at least South American. The "purse" is also ancient, not disco era vintage.

Who knew that the DM, well known for alarmist and exaggerated "news" stories, would have better info on how this was never a case involving unitentified murdered women and the only ritualistic aspect was that it was all connected to an old religion (or maybe they were travel souvenirs) and had nothing to do with the satanic panic scare.

Although, the DM does say that they skulls were found with a full page from a 1978 newspaper, which changes from the earlier stories of "newspaper clipping" and "stuffed with shredded newspaper". I swear, I doubt we can believe a darn thing printed as news nowadays...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2144525/Mystery-skulls-buried-Florida-yard-date-1200AD-South-American-descent.html

The Son of Sam case is the only case profiled on UM that I personally think legitimately had some sort of satanic cult aspect to the case.

It is case by case situation but if you want to see how twisted this stuff can be should research bohemian grove.

shorts over at u tube look up "cremation of care."

There has long been urban legends of that place. None have turned up solid credible evidence.

There has long been urban legends of that place. None have turned up solid credible evidence.

So video of the site, ceremonies both inside, and counter ceremonies held outside, can't post youtube here or else I would.

credible sites have covered it as well

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/bohemian-grove-where-the-rich-and-powerful-go-to-misbehave/2011/06/15/AGPV1sVH_blog.html

less credible but some good pictures here.

http://www.markdice.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:new-6&catid=56:photos&Itemid=85

So video of the site, ceremonies both inside, and counter ceremonies held outside, can't post youtube here or else I would.

credible sites have covered it as well

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/bohemian-grove-where-the-rich-and-powerful-go-to-misbehave/2011/06/15/AGPV1sVH_blog.html

less credible but some good pictures here.

http://www.markdice.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:new-6&catid=56:photos&Itemid=85
Yes credible sites have covered it. There has been no proof that there are huge sex orgies or Satanic rituals have ever happened. Bizarre rituals that mimic ancient civilization rituals-yes. Alex Jones would have many try to believe otherwise.

The Son of Sam case is the only case profiled on UM that I personally think legitimately had some sort of satanic cult aspect to the case.

In the truest sense of the word I agree with you. However, I refuse to rule out the fact that there may have been some faux Satanist cults out there. Spotty teenagers perhaps into drugs or some other types of nefarious activities alongside what at the time was thought to be actual Satanic activity.

The Kurt McFall case bothers me. It really does bother me every time I watch it and the reason is despite how much I want to write it off as an accident involving a fall from a cliff there is just something that to me seems off with that case. I think it's possible (although perhaps not probable) that something may have happened to him involving some of the under the table activities he was involved in at the time. Whether they involved worship of the devil, I cannot say but I think Kurt may have found himself amongst people that perhaps didn't have his best interests at heart.

The x-factor in the McFall case is his dalliance with the ugly paganist, who looked about as threatening as a supermarket bag man. I didn't appreciate the way the show tarted up "Dungeons & Dragons" crap.

I live in Chile but I think we also had a little paranoia about satanism in late 80's-early 90's :D

I remember some movies like Child's Play and Pet Sematary that were very popular among youngers and children between 8-15 years of age. I went to a catholic school and rebel children were seen by others like "satanic". I remember talking about a classmate being "satanic" because she liked those kind of movies....:D

Not UM, but Satanic Panic related:

Did anyone see the news back in November 2013 about this couple who ran a daycare being convicted of being part of a satanic cult that sexually abused kids in their rituals?

They are just now getting out of prison after 21 years! Their lives have been completely ruined, and IIRC, they ended up getting divorced.

I thought the authorities had already figured all this nonsense out before now.

One of the things that is so disturbing to me is that the impossible stories that the authorities believed that led to these convictions. Children said they would be dropped off at the daycare by their parents, taken to the airport by their daycare providers, board a flight for Mexico, be victimized in horrific ways, board a return flight to the US, and be back at the daycare in time for their parents to pick them up after work.

WHAT? No one looked into the logistics of that? It's just not possible, even before the expanded security after 9/11.... in addition to all the other bizarre claims that couldn't have happened.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/27/us-usa-texas-release-idUSBRE9AQ13R20131127

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/alleged-satanic-sex-abuse-daycare-owner-released-prison-article-1.1532632

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/day-care-operator-convicted-of-satanic-child-abuse-released/

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/05/texas-couple-kellers-released-prison-satanic-abuse

I avoided this thread before because it was a magnet for anti-Christian posts, but I wanted to comment on something about this that hadn't been mentioned.

One key ingredient in the 'satanic panic' craze of the 80s was the anti-cult movement. Quite often its proponent were not religious at all. This really exploded after the Jonestown mass suicide. Anyone remember Cult Awareness Network and 'deprogramming'? It was from this that that satanic panic was born from; though yes, perhaps some Christian groups emphasized the satanic part.

About the same time there was a new thing of nihilistic youth culture - destruction and vandalism for no purpose, when before 'youth culture' was activist and had a purpose (think anti-Vietnam protests). This sort of thing got lumped in with the Cult Awareness madness, and I think alot of people forget this.

While I do think most of the cases involving satanism (like the one with the little girl who was allegedly murdered for a snuff video; seriously, what the frig?) were probably exaggerated theories, I don't rule out the fact that satanic cults could've came into play in any of them. But, in all honesty, I think most "satanic cults" were just rebellious teens trying to stir stuff up. Actual satanism is far, far, different from what most people make it out to be.

While I do think most of the cases involving satanism (like the one with the little girl who was allegedly murdered for a snuff video; seriously, what the frig?) were probably exaggerated theories, I don't rule out the fact that satanic cults could've came into play in any of them. But, in all honesty, I think most "satanic cults" were just rebellious teens trying to stir stuff up. Actual satanism is far, far, different from what most people make it out to be.

Well, I think at least one was a spooky 'psuedo' Satanist ("Omar").

Well, I think at least one was a spooky 'psuedo' Satanist ("Omar").
Yeah, that's what i was thinking of. Same with people like Ricky "The Acid King" Kasso.

I avoided this thread before because it was a magnet for anti-Christian posts, but I wanted to comment on something about this that hadn't been mentioned.

One key ingredient in the 'satanic panic' craze of the 80s was the anti-cult movement. Quite often it's proponent were not religious at all. This really exploded after the Jonestown mass suicide. Anyone remember Cult Awareness Network and 'deprogramming'? It was from this that that satanic panic was born from; though yes, perhaps some Christian groups emphasized the satanic part.

About the same time there was a new thing of nihilistic youth culture - destruction and vandalism for no purpose, when before 'youth culture' was activist and had a purpose (think anti-Vietnam protests). This sort of thing got lumped in with the Cult Awareness madness, and I think alot of people forget this.

Excellent post, unsolved. I think you've got a sound analysis here.

Yep, punks turned into "satanists" on the way to goths.

99.9% of it was kids trying to be different, just like all their friends.

Nothing pisses off the parents and the pastor more than wearing all black, playing D&D and listening to heavy metal!

Most of those folks are now relatively normal parents of kids with faux hawks and tutus.

Seems that satanic panic hasn't completely run it's course yet. Although law enforcement no longer seem to be pursuing a cult angle to crimes, some of the public seem to be holding on to that old 80s/90s bogeyman.

One recent case that stood out was when I reading news stories about the elderly couple from Georgia who were murdered in their home (husband was decapitated, wife's body was found a couple weeks later in water connected to the canal behind their house), the quote from their son really caught my attention:

‘It could have been anything, something to do with a cult, we just don’t know.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2628521/Despairing-son-hopes-mother-dead-ease-suffering-week-vanished-husbands-headless-body-1m-home-Georgia-murder-mystery-horror.html

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/son-putnam-victims-blames-cult-moms-disappearance/nfyJ2/

I wonder if they ever covered the mysterious Elizabeth Claire Prophet. She was a cult leader of something called CUT and she had a mantra about a "violet flame" and she repeated it multiple times faster and faster in her sessions. Creeped me out.

Saintanic cults seem to have had their hay day back in the 80's. Although I was born in the early 90's I've read articles and books from people who have claimed to be victims of saintanic cults as early as the 50's. It's very disgusting, and horrid to hear what these victims have gone through. I know you guys have a open mind so I'm urging you to read the book In the link below .Weather you believe in a god or a satan it's a dman good read.

Author is Brice Taylor. Title: Thanks for the memories .

http://www.e-reading.mobi/book.php?book=89504

I actually had to stop reading this book after a while because it kind of disturbed me and really got to me. It talks about how satanism is kept alive through thoes high within the political pyramid. It goes in depth with how this circle is kept tightly sealed, and how hsex rings are operated through government and churches. I did enjoy this read despite the disturbing details so I'm giving a HUGE TRIGGER WARNING. this book is extremely detailed and, may trigger thoes who have gone through sexual and physical abuse.

I thought you all would enjoy today's list on Listverse:

http://listverse.com/2014/11/29/10-unsolved-murders-with-strange-links-to-the-occult/

"10 Unsolved Murders with Strange Links to the Occult."

Rachel Runyan is featured on the list. I'm surprised more of these didn't make it onto UM! I'm actually surprised I haven't heard of more of these cases...going to look up some of them now...

Apologies in advance for dredging up an old thread - fell into kind of a rabbit hole here. Watching the segment on Shane Stewart/Sally McNelly segment led to me searching/reading threads on that and eventually the whole 'Satanism' thing came up.

I agree wholeheartedly with the point made by unsolved1981, but I digress.

For a while I was stuck on the Son of Sam case and when that particular segment disappeared from the site that shall not be named, more searching led me to this particular documentary, narrated by Bill Kurtis. It expands upon the UM take on things and connects the SoS killings to the 'Process Church', which according to Wikipedia, is vaguely Satanic. Thought this might be interesting.

SoS Documentary (about 45mins long)
https://youtu.be/4JepFcuZVuo

Process Church (wikipedia)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Process_Church_of_The_Final_Judgment#Teachings_and_activities

Apologies in advance for dredging up an old thread - fell into kind of a rabbit hole here. Watching the segment on Shane Stewart/Sally McNelly segment led to me searching/reading threads on that and eventually the whole 'Satanism' thing came up.

I agree wholeheartedly with the point made by unsolved1981, but I digress.

For a while I was stuck on the Son of Sam case and when that particular segment disappeared from the site that shall not be named, more searching led me to this particular documentary, narrated by Bill Kurtis. It expands upon the UM take on things and connects the SoS killings to the 'Process Church', which according to Wikipedia, is vaguely Satanic. Thought this might be interesting.

SoS Documentary (about 45mins long)
https://youtu.be/4JepFcuZVuo

Process Church (wikipedia)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Process_Church_of_The_Final_Judgment#Teachings_and_activities


It's funny as I originally posted this thread years ago, and after seeing so many of the original episodes on Amazon, it's even more obvious how much the Satanic angle got pushed. It was obviously a big deal in the 80's with heavy metal music and such, but UM definitely beat that drum pretty hard. I'm sure there were the cases that had a real Satanic component, although I don't know how serious the connection was.

Today, for the most part, it just seems silly.

I gotta find that Canadian news clip warning about the dangers of Dungeons snd Dragons lol

When you think about it, it's very much akin to the whole creepy clown sightings craze that we saw last year.

I wonder if they ever covered the mysterious Elizabeth Claire Prophet. She was a cult leader of something called CUT and she had a mantra about a "violet flame" and she repeated it multiple times faster and faster in her sessions. Creeped me out.
I am very familiar with Elizabeth Clare Prophet and Church Universal & Triumphant. They were covered on Leonard Nimoy's program In Search Of in the episode "The Man Who Wouldn't Die". Begun as the Summit Lighthouse in the 1950s it was a scam operation and definitely could be defined as a cult in that questioning the leadership was forbidden and money and service were demanded in return for very little rewards. Long hours of hard work and very little sleep. People died because they were told to ignore symptoms of illness and just keep on working and decreeing. Decrees and affirmations (the "mantras" you spoke of) are a type of prayer related to positive thinking. The reason for the high speed is supposedly to raise the speaker's personal vibrational level.

CUT was based in Christian Science, the I AM Religious Activity, Edgar Cayce and Theosophy. Elizabeth was brain damaged and epileptic, probably had fetal alcohol syndrome, and her mother told her she was having spiritual experiences and past life memories. I think she really believed this, and combined it with her father's political activism to claim she was channeling ascended masters warning of a coming apocalypse for which all must prepare.

This writer born into CUT collects info & reveals facts about life there The Year Of Obedience (http://tyob.info)
Sean Prophet, her son, denounces & debunks all of it (http://www.blacksunjournal.com/elizabeth-clare-prophet) (also see his videos on youtube)
Detailed article by cult expert Joe Szimhart (http://www.scp-inc.org/publications/newsletters/N2204/endprophet.html)
Ex-member Cathleen Mann, her story (http://irr.org/former-member-describes-cut-abuses)

Satanic panic wasn't started by Cult Awareness Network but by fundamentalist Bible-thumpers in cahoots with a well intentioned women's movement for child sexual abuse awareness, plus a handful of overzealous psychiatrists.

Cult Awareness Network was into researching and providing info on actual cults like Jonestown. Scientology bought the name "Cult Awareness Network" so the group you want today is www.culteducation.com.

A lot of groups that actually behave like cults, people would never think they were. There was a famous one exposed a few years ago that looked like any old Christian church anywhere. The film Join Us (http://joinus.interloperfilms.com/reviews.php)is about people leaving this church. "Cult" is in the behavior, especially the behavior of the leaders, not in the symbology.