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Did Mary Tyler Moore do enough throughout her career to be considered at the same level as Lucille Ball? If yes, why? If no, how come? Talk to me! :D

Did Mary Tyler Moore do enough throughout her career to be considered at the same level as Lucille Ball? If yes, why? If no, how come? Talk to me! :D

Lucille Ball was a pioneer. She opened the doors for women like MTM. She accomplished so much more than her list of credits. In that regard, I don't think any one is on the same level as Lucille Ball. It's not only what she did, but when and what happened because of it.

That said, I enjoyed the MTM show as much if not more than I Love Lucy. I think Mary Tyler Moore was and is outstanding, but wouldn't put anyone on the same level as Lucille Ball.

NO WAY! When it comes to comedy, Lucy was in a class of her own. The only comedienne who ever came close to Lucy was Gilda Radner (God Rest her soul.)

On the other hand, while Lucy was a wonderful comedienne, and a real pioneer of physical TV comedy, she wasn't anything to write home about as a serious actress. Mary, on the hand, is a drop dead great actress; for example, Ordinary People, where she just blew me away.

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NO WAY! When it comes to comedy, Lucy was in a class of her own.
:yeahthat

:yeahthat

Yup!!!

I still get a chuckle thinking of her: taking a giant swig of that "elixir", getting all those icicles in a freezer, lighting a putty nose on fire...who ever did stuff like that before her? And who ever did it as well after? And those were just off the top of my head (with a great like Lucy its a long list!)

Lucy gets points for being first, she did it for a long time, and there was nobody better at physical comedy.
Mary was the lead female in the defining sitcom of TWO eras (and in different roles), she was excellent at physical comedy herself, and she had the one great movie role.
I'm a Mary guy, I think Mary was the equal of Lucy, and I think Mary's shows were a bit more consistently funny, or at the very least more realistic.
Yet all that said, out of respect I have no problem giving the "crown" to Lucy.
And it wouldn't surprise me if that's how Mary looks at it, too.
They both really WERE great!

I know that on a board like this, I'm liable to have things thrown at me for saying this, but yes, I DO think they're on the same level - or nearly so. I think both had a very specific style of comedy that they managed to work with long enough to have careers spanning generations. And just the fact that both STARRED in more than one hit sitcom is amazing. Not something that happens to too many people. I know many people see Lucy as TV royalty, and I don't disagree she opened doors for somebody like Mary to come along. I just have never been a die-hard Lucy fan like so many others here.

*hides*

Mary was great at reaction and relational comedy so she is the queen of those areas of comedy. She is definitely the queen of ensemble comedy. Both shows she was in were ensemble comedy. Her role in the Dick Van Dyke Show where she was the unofficial lead actress in the show but in opening she is the last to be introduced. When the announcer list the cast it is always, "and Mary Tyler Moore." Laura Petrie was supposed to be a small part where she was going to be a hi honey how was your day wife but Carl Reiner saw she was more than that. Her part immediately was enlargened where she was almost as equal as Dick on the show. Rose Marie was not happy with it because she was suppose to be the lead actress in the show and most of the show was supposed to set in the writer's office but it was balanced between work and home.

IMO I think, in recent years, Betty White has surpassed Mary, Carol or anyone else and is second only to Lucy as The Queen of Comedy (of all time)!

Now THAT'S an interesting thought! Not sure I agree, but the argument certainly could be made on Betty.
And, of course, Carol is definitely at the head table.
With Lucy and Mary, those are four fantastic ladies right there!
And there are a few currently performing who merit some mention.

Look, I loved Lucy, pun intended. Nobody did wacky better than Lucy (and no matter what her show was called, it was Lucy being Lucy, to me!)
I just happen to like my sitcoms to be a tad more reality based, which Mary's were, and she shined in her two.

But when you come right down to it, there wasn't a whole lot of difference ... no matter what the premise, BOTH had that innate ability to thrill audiences and get laughs, and that's why both are loved!

If there was a Mount Rushmore for American "Queens of Comedy", it should include Lucille Ball, Mary Tyler Moore, Carol Burnett and Betty White! :lol:

and....Gilda Radner! (imo anyways)

I know that on a board like this, I'm liable to have things thrown at me for saying this, but yes, I DO think they're on the same level - or nearly so. I think both had a very specific style of comedy that they managed to work with long enough to have careers spanning generations. And just the fact that both STARRED in more than one hit sitcom is amazing. Not something that happens to too many people. I know many people see Lucy as TV royalty, and I don't disagree she opened doors for somebody like Mary to come along. I just have never been a die-hard Lucy fan like so many others here.

*hides*

Mary's wonderful don't get me wrong - I love her - esp. for her work off the screen for Diabetes. And YOU can always feed me a Mary Tyler Moore show ANYTIME...I loved the show when it orig. aired--watching it as a teen--and now on DVD.

BUT, for me anyways, Lucy was a real pioneer and she will always be the greatest. However...there are some pretty nifty close 2nds....(and of couse Betty White rocks - God Bless Her - still doing hit stuff for 4 generations--she's a real pistol and talent.)

There is no way you can compare Mary Tyler Moore to Lucille Ball. Lucille Ball was a television pioneer. She lasted longer than any other female on TV. She had three hit TV series, hit broadway play (Wildcat) and hit movies. Her specials always ranked high in the ratings. Lucy was also a fantastic dramatic actress but just wasn't given the opportunity to show much of it before "I Love Lucy." Her performances in "The Big Street" and "Dance, Girl, Dance" were great and movies that she made during her TV series were fantastic i.e. "The Long, Long Trailer," "Facts of Life," "Yours, Mine & Ours," & "Mame." Her performance as a bag lady in "Stone Pillow" was phenomenal and wasn't even nominated for an Emmy. It ranked as the no. 2 TV movie during the 1985-86 Season. Lucy ranks in the top 10 shows longer that any other TV star - 16 years. On the other hand Mary Tyler Moore is very good at doing comedy but I think is a bit overrated. She co-starred with Dick Van Dyke from 1961-66 but the show belonged to Dick Van Dyke. She was merely a co-star but a good one at that. After DVD Show ended (due to declining ratings) Mary tried broadway and bombed. "Breakfast At Tiffany's" lasted one night. The audience threw food at the stage. After she failed Broadway Mary tried some films for Universal. The first film "Thoroughly Modern Mille" was a hit only because Julie Andrews was the star. After that Mary had two bombs - "Don't Just Stand There" w/Robert Wanger and "What's So Bad About Feeling Good?" w/George Peppard. Her worst movie had to be opposite Elvis Presley in "Change of Habit" (Mary played a nun). She made a nice return to TV in 1970 with "The Mary Tyler Moore Show" a very witty, sophiscated comedy with a great ensemble cast. But the series didn't break any new ground with single females trying to make a go of it alone. Marlo Thomas started the trend in 1966 with "That Girl" and Doris Day followed in 1968. The Mary Tyler Moore Show ended in 1977 because of low ratings. CBS was no longer no. 1 in the ratings. ABC had taken over the crown from 1976-1979. Mary was beaten in the ratings by "Starsky & Hutch" and moved from 9:00 pm Saturday to 8:00 pm Saturday. The show fell out of the Top 30 and Mary decided to call it quits. Mary became the critics darling on most of her overrated TV Movies. She was nominated for many Emmys for "First You Cry," and "Heartsounds." I will admit her best performance was for her Oscar nominated performance in "Ordinary People" but I think she was so good at this role because that's the way she was in real life - cold. Mary Tyler Moore was never able to have television series success after MTM show folded. She starred in five failures: "Mary" the variety series that lasted three weeks, "The Mary Tyler Moore Comedy Hour" (13 weeks), "Mary" the situation comedy (13 weeks), "Annie McGuire" (yanked after seven episodes) and "New York News" (yanked after ten episodes). She tried making movies again but to no success. "Six Weeks" co-starring Dudley Moore failed and a movie co-starring Christine Lahti and Ted Danson was also a failure. She had a small role in the successful feature "Flirting With Disaster" but I like I said it wasn't a big part. She went back to broadway to star in the female version of "Whose Life Is It Anyway?" and of course the Tony's give her a special award. Lucille Ball was a great pioneer and had many successes and didn't need critic's approval (although she got many) whereas Mary Tyler Moore was in a good comedy series and the critics never forgot it.

IMO I think, in recent years, Betty White has surpassed Mary, Carol or anyone else and is second only to Lucy as The Queen of Comedy (of all time)!

In my opinion, Betty White is overexposed and not really in the same league as Lucy. Her willingness to go for the cheap, vulgar laugh diminishes her, in my opinion. I fail to see the appeal of an older lady trying to act "hip." As for Mary, she is a totally different kind of actress than Lucy, so it is difficult to compare. Lucy is so iconic, it would be difficult to do a comparison with anyone.

That being said, I would rather watch the first 4 seasons of MTM than Lucy, overall, largely because of the other cast members and not just Mary.