Don't get me wrong. I loved the cast of Frasier and really liked Frasier's character as well, but I always thought Niles stole the show. I read in a TV Guide somewhere that they called him the "Fonzie of Frasier" hench, the thought that Henry Winkler from Happy Days wouldn't be the show stealer.

Any thoughts?

I think I agree with this. And I KNOW when Andrea (Schmoopie) sees this thread, she'll agree 1,000%! As talented as Kelsey was/is, I think paring him w/ DHP is what really made the show so amazing. And adding in the Niles/Daphne saga only made things better. If that was even possible!

- Kristen

I think I agree with this. And I KNOW when Andrea (Schmoopie) sees this thread, she'll agree 1,000%! As talented as Kelsey was/is, I think paring him w/ DHP is what really made the show so amazing. And adding in the Niles/Daphne saga only made things better. If that was even possible!

- Kristen

I agree with everything! Niles was awesome, and adding the N/D aspect was perfection! It wouldn't have been the same without DHP. Imagine if they would have hired a "Rosie Perez type" instead of Jane, it wouldn't have been the same. Thank goodness for small miracles. :)

This happens a lot, really. The lead actor is often forced into being a bit more bland and reactive than the second lead, who is more free to be "out there" and expressive, without the pressure of holding the rest of the cast together and acting as a sage or "stabilizing force". You can see this in Everybody Loves Raymond, where Robby was arguably more popular than Ray, in the aforementioned Happy Days, in Alice, with Alice/Flo, in ODAAT, with Ann/Schneider, in Barney Miller with Barney and Fish, in WKRP with Andy and Johnny, etc, etc.

This happens a lot, really. The lead actor is often forced into being a bit more bland and reactive than the second lead, who is more free to be "out there" and expressive, without the pressure of holding the rest of the cast together and acting as a sage or "stabilizing force". You can see this in Everybody Loves Raymond, where Robby was arguably more popular than Ray, in the aforementioned Happy Days, in Alice, with Alice/Flo, in ODAAT, with Ann/Schneider, in Barney Miller with Barney and Fish, in WKRP with Andy and Johnny, etc, etc.

Wow, well put and very insightful!

Wow, well put and very insightful!

Thanks! :wave:

Niles...IMO is very quirky and David Hyde Peirce played the character very well.

I think I agree with this. And I KNOW when Andrea (Schmoopie) sees this thread, she'll agree 1,000%! As talented as Kelsey was/is, I think paring him w/ DHP is what really made the show so amazing. And adding in the Niles/Daphne saga only made things better. If that was even possible!

- Kristen
Oh geez, Kristen what could POSSIBLY make you think I'd want to gush about my favorite TV character of all time? Probably because I do it constantly anyway! :) Seriously though I never had any interest in "Frasier" at all when it was on in prime time but when I saw it on Lifetime, the one character that stood out was Niles. I just found him completely adorable and that's pretty much what started my obsession/affection for Niles and DHP! Well in all fairness, I have to give Kristen credit AGAIN for writing such an awesome fan fic that enticed me to start DVR'ing the show. ;)

But Niles has this sweet boyish quality that I absolutely love! It seems that he really is the younger brother, always being downplayed by his older brother, either by what he does or says. Frasier seems to always be correcting him or telling him that his ideas are ridiculous. I think it's so cute when they bicker back and forth about the most mundane things, that seem so important to them.

But what really got me hooked on Frasier (Niles) was Niles' fixation with Daphne Moon. It's just so adorable and he's so cute being so shy around her at first.

I've seen many episodes of Frasier that I don't like much at all (mainly due to the storyline or something else) but it never fails that whatever scene Niles is in, it makes the episode worth watching. DHP just brightens up any scene he's in, so I love that he was in every episode.

And I guess I don't have to mention what an AMAZING actor DHP is. I know I've mentioned this several times but it just floors me how he can bring out emotions in Niles that can move me to tears or have me laughing hysterically. That's a rare trait in an actor.

Oh geez, Kristen what could POSSIBLY make you think I'd want to gush about my favorite TV character of all time? Probably because I do it constantly anyway! :) Seriously though I never had any interest in "Frasier" at all when it was on in prime time but when I saw it on Lifetime, the one character that stood out was Niles. I just found him completely adorable and that's pretty much what started my obsession/affection for Niles and DHP! Well in all fairness, I have to give Kristen credit AGAIN for writing such an awesome fan fic that enticed me to start DVR'ing the show. ;)

But Niles has this sweet boyish quality that I absolutely love! It seems that he really is the younger brother, always being downplayed by his older brother, either by what he does or says. Frasier seems to always be correcting him or telling him that his ideas are ridiculous. I think it's so cute when they bicker back and forth about the most mundane things, that seem so important to them.

But what really got me hooked on Frasier (Niles) was Niles' fixation with Daphne Moon. It's just so adorable and he's so cute being so shy around her at first.

I've seen many episodes of Frasier that I don't like much at all (mainly due to the storyline or something else) but it never fails that whatever scene Niles is in, it makes the episode worth watching. DHP just brightens up any scene he's in, so I love that he was in every episode.

And I guess I don't have to mention what an AMAZING actor DHP is. I know I've mentioned this several times but it just floors me how he can bring out emotions in Niles that can move me to tears or have me laughing hysterically. That's a rare trait in an actor.

First of all, I have to say how amazing it is that you say Niles is your fave character EVER, since I'm sure at one time it would have been someone from Seinfeld. I'm really honored I could have something to do w/ "converting" you! :)

I know what you mean about Niles' boyish qualities. He just seems like all he wants is for people to like him! Esp. Daphne, of course! And I think Daphne is someone who naturally likes to take care of people. I mean, it's what she does. So I think that may be part of what she sees in him. But of course that's a topic for another thread!

And yes, DHP is an amazing actor. I know I've said it before on here, but "Three Valentines" is all the proof you need of that! I mean, there are a thousand other scenes w/ him I love, but that one just required so much skill to pull off!

- Kristen

I didn't pay much attention to DHP until I started watching Frasier regularly. Once I got it to the show, I was just blown away by how good of an actor he was.
He was such a good actor, I had no idea that he was even gay until I read about it and then heard about it. He was so believable as a straight man on Frasier, that his scenes with Jane as Daphne were just magical. ;)
Although, I was initially a bit disappointed to find he was gay, that still didn't change my mind about him as an actor or as a person. I love him to death. :)

I completely agree. The Niles infatuation with Daphne was a stroke of genius. It was written and executed SO WELL. I have seen the "secret obsession" role played in other shows and it does not work as well as it did in Frasier. (i.e. "the Loop", etc.). You have to admit the writers were nothing less than BRILLIANT! My favorite show by far.

My all time favorite line is...

I completely agree. The Niles infatuation with Daphne was a stroke of genius. It was written and executed SO WELL. I have seen the "secret obsession" role played in other shows and it does not work as well as it did in Frasier. (i.e. "the Loop", etc.). You have to admit the writers were nothing less than BRILLIANT! My favorite show by far.

This is so true, but I have to say that after Niles and Daphne got married, their relationship seemed to have lost a little of its sparkle. I'm not putting it down by any means and I simply can't fault the acting but I was a bit disappointed in Season 11 when there were rarely if any kisses between Niles and Daphne. It just seems a little out of character for a man who worshiped this woman for six years before telling her that he loved her to suddenly stop kissing her. You'd think he'd have been more in love with her than ever.

In Season 8 we saw Niles and Daphne kiss almost every time they were on screen together but starting after they got married that became less and less. Part of me can't help but wonder if maybe DHP was feeling uncomfortable about scenes like that. I mean I can completely understand but really I'd love to know the reasoning behind it.

But that's just a very tiny rant on my part! Thanks for "listening"! ;)

This is so true, but I have to say that after Niles and Daphne got married, their relationship seemed to have lost a little of its sparkle. I'm not putting it down by any means and I simply can't fault the acting but I was a bit disappointed in Season 11 when there were rarely if any kisses between Niles and Daphne. It just seems a little out of character for a man who worshiped this woman for six years before telling her that he loved her to suddenly stop kissing her. You'd think he'd have been more in love with her than ever.

In Season 8 we saw Niles and Daphne kiss almost every time they were on screen together but starting after they got married that became less and less. Part of me can't help but wonder if maybe DHP was feeling uncomfortable about scenes like that. I mean I can completely understand but really I'd love to know the reasoning behind it.

But that's just a very tiny rant on my part! Thanks for "listening"! ;)

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. There was a lot of hugging and hand holding, but not much kissing. I was kind of disappointed by that. I really would have like to have known the reason myself. I guess we will never know. :confused:
Regardless of that, Niles and Daphne were still a beautiful couple. :)

This is so true, but I have to say that after Niles and Daphne got married, their relationship seemed to have lost a little of its sparkle. I'm not putting it down by any means and I simply can't fault the acting but I was a bit disappointed in Season 11 when there were rarely if any kisses between Niles and Daphne. It just seems a little out of character for a man who worshiped this woman for six years before telling her that he loved her to suddenly stop kissing her. You'd think he'd have been more in love with her than ever.

In Season 8 we saw Niles and Daphne kiss almost every time they were on screen together but starting after they got married that became less and less. Part of me can't help but wonder if maybe DHP was feeling uncomfortable about scenes like that. I mean I can completely understand but really I'd love to know the reasoning behind it.

But that's just a very tiny rant on my part! Thanks for "listening"! ;)

I find it hard to think David was complaining about it. I can't imagine him being less than professional.

They probably down-toned the kissing because they didn't want them to come across as the "teenages in love" in every episode.

I'm with you though. I think they should have kept it going.

Woudn't that have been a hoot to have a D&N spin-off!

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. There was a lot of hugging and hand holding, but not much kissing. I was kind of disappointed by that. I really would have like to have known the reason myself. I guess we will never know. :confused:
Regardless of that, Niles and Daphne were still a beautiful couple. :)

Oh good, I'm so happy to see that I'm not alone! I was disappointed as well-especially in Season 11 because there were such monumental things that happened (which I won't comment on so as to not spoil the surprise in case some people haven't seen it!), that would warrant kissing! But you are absolutely right, andress_Jade. Niles and Daphne are definitely a beautiful couple!

I find it hard to think David was complaining about it. I can't imagine him being less than professional.

They probably down-toned the kissing because they didn't want them to come across as the "teenages in love" in every episode.

I'm with you though. I think they should have kept it going.

Woudn't that have been a hoot to have a D&N spin-off!

I wouldn't think that DHP would have complained about it either. And I definitely think they should have continued (if not increased!) the kissing scenes! But maybe that's just the hopeless romantic in me that fell in love with them in the first place!

But OMG, that would have been awesome to have an N/D spin-off! Then again, it would have to be REALLY well done to be anywhere near as good as Frasier! But given how amazing the Frasier writers are, one can only wonder!

The good thing though is that the final episode left a lot open so there's lots of opportunities for continuing N/D's story through fan fiction! Something I've become sort of addicted to! :)

Oh geez, Kristen what could POSSIBLY make you think I'd want to gush about my favorite TV character of all time? Probably because I do it constantly anyway! :) Seriously though I never had any interest in "Frasier" at all when it was on in prime time but when I saw it on Lifetime, the one character that stood out was Niles. I just found him completely adorable and that's pretty much what started my obsession/affection for Niles and DHP! Well in all fairness, I have to give Kristen credit AGAIN for writing such an awesome fan fic that enticed me to start DVR'ing the show. ;)

But Niles has this sweet boyish quality that I absolutely love! It seems that he really is the younger brother, always being downplayed by his older brother, either by what he does or says. Frasier seems to always be correcting him or telling him that his ideas are ridiculous. I think it's so cute when they bicker back and forth about the most mundane things, that seem so important to them.

But what really got me hooked on Frasier (Niles) was Niles' fixation with Daphne Moon. It's just so adorable and he's so cute being so shy around her at first.

I've seen many episodes of Frasier that I don't like much at all (mainly due to the storyline or something else) but it never fails that whatever scene Niles is in, it makes the episode worth watching. DHP just brightens up any scene he's in, so I love that he was in every episode.

And I guess I don't have to mention what an AMAZING actor DHP is. I know I've mentioned this several times but it just floors me how he can bring out emotions in Niles that can move me to tears or have me laughing hysterically. That's a rare trait in an actor.
I just love this post... Everything you said here is just exactly the way that I feel too. I like the show for the most part and the other characters but something about the Niles character and DHP that just touches me. I guess it has something to do with the vulnerability he shows and the way that he changes over the seasons. He just gets better and better with every season. I love it too that the director, writers, and camera people recognized that he was the beating heart of that show too, because so many times they allowed him to shine through a line, a look, or a movement, and so many times when the cameras could have been on any one of the characters they were on him to catch his bit of brilliance.
In Season 8 we saw Niles and Daphne kiss almost every time they were on screen together but starting after they got married that became less and less. Part of me can't help but wonder if maybe DHP was feeling uncomfortable about scenes like that. I mean I can completely understand but really I'd love to know the reasoning behind it.
I don't think that was it. Him being uncomfortable, I mean. In fact, I don't think that has anything at all to do with it, and while we can wonder, I think it does him a bit of a disservice to suggest that (no offense to you intended). I think that he and Jane were good friends (at least as far as I can tell) and kissing each other was probably pretty natural for them by then, as far as kissing someone as part of your job can be, anyway. :lol: That's the general idea I get from actors who play married couples on TV, and I don't see why it would be any different for either of them as it would be for any other actor who is married to someone else in real life. And I think if he, or she, for that matter, was uncomfortable with any part of it, we would have noticed or felt it right from the start.

I've noticed with some other shows that I love that once they get the "it" couple together, things often stop simmering and they settle into something that is, honestly, more realistic of a married couple. That's all I can guess as to why that happens-- is because writers and producers think that this is more like real life. A friend of mine who works in lighting in TV sitcoms told me that once, and I guess it makes sense, although you'd think they'd realize that once they get the couple together is when we really want to see them-- well-- together.

I just love this post... Everything you said here is just exactly the way that I feel too. I like the show for the most part and the other characters but something about the Niles character and DHP that just touches me. I guess it has something to do with the vulnerability he shows and the way that he changes over the seasons. He just gets better and better with every season. I love it too that the director, writers, and camera people recognized that he was the beating heart of that show too, because so many times they allowed him to shine through a line, a look, or a movement, and so many times when the cameras could have been on any one of the characters they were on him to catch his bit of brilliance.

I don't think that was it. Him being uncomfortable, I mean. In fact, I don't think that has anything at all to do with it, and while we can wonder, I think it does him a bit of a disservice to suggest that (no offense to you intended). I think that he and Jane were good friends (at least as far as I can tell) and kissing each other was probably pretty natural for them by then, as far as kissing someone as part of your job can be, anyway. :lol: That's the general idea I get from actors who play married couples on TV, and I don't see why it would be any different for either of them as it would be for any other actor who is married to someone else in real life. And I think if he, or she, for that matter, was uncomfortable with any part of it, we would have noticed or felt it right from the start.

I've noticed with some other shows that I love that once they get the "it" couple together, things often stop simmering and they settle into something that is, honestly, more realistic of a married couple. That's all I can guess as to why that happens-- is because writers and producers think that this is more like real life. A friend of mine who works in lighting in TV sitcoms told me that once, and I guess it makes sense, although you'd think they'd realize that once they get the couple together is when we really want to see them-- well-- together.

I posted that response back in July and although I hardly remember what I had said (until I re-read it), I guess it was a bit harsh of me to suggest that DHP was uncomfortable kissing Jane. Didn't mean to insult him by any means and I feel terrible if it came across that way! :( Believe me, I am such a huge DHP fan that I can't even believe I said that!

If any of you have ever seen "Down With Love" that DHP is in, that movie was made during the later seasons of Frasier and there is a scene where his character Peter has this incredible kiss with the woman he's fallen in love with. I mean, it had me melting and I didn't think any couple could make me melt like Niles and Daphne!

Thanks for what you said about David and Jane being such good friends that they had no problem with kissing each other. I never really thought of it that way, but I know that DHP loved playing Niles. I saw radio interview (it was filmed in the radio station) that he did and he was asked if he minded when people call him Niles. He said absolutely not and that he loves it because Frasier was such a wonderful show.

You are so right about Niles and Daphne staying wonderful after they became a couple. I have seen SO many instances (Mainly on soaps) where the anticipation for two people to become a couple is so much more enjoyable than when they actually become one. I've seen shows where the couple slowly falls in love and then after they get married they fight all the time. I mean what a complete waste! I know that all couples fight after they get married (and before) but it's stupid to just show the negative side after all that time was invested in getting them together in the first place! I'm SO glad they didn't go the other route with Niles and Daphne!

I posted that response back in July and although I hardly remember what I had said (until I re-read it), I guess it was a bit harsh of me to suggest that DHP was uncomfortable kissing Jane. Didn't mean to insult him by any means and I feel terrible if it came across that way! :( Believe me, I am such a huge DHP fan that I can't even believe I said that!

If any of you have ever seen "Down With Love" that DHP is in, that movie was made during the later seasons of Frasier and there is a scene where his character Peter has this incredible kiss with the woman he's fallen in love with. I mean, it had me melting and I didn't think any couple could make me melt like Niles and Daphne!

Thanks for what you said about David and Jane being such good friends that they had no problem with kissing each other. I never really thought of it that way, but I know that DHP loved playing Niles. I saw radio interview (it was filmed in the radio station) that he did and he was asked if he minded when people call him Niles. He said absolutely not and that he loves it because Frasier was such a wonderful show.

You are so right about Niles and Daphne staying wonderful after they became a couple. I have seen SO many instances (Mainly on soaps) where the anticipation for two people to become a couple is so much more enjoyable than when they actually become one. I've seen shows where the couple slowly falls in love and then after they get married they fight all the time. I mean what a complete waste! I know that all couples fight after they get married (and before) but it's stupid to just show the negative side after all that time was invested in getting them together in the first place! I'm SO glad they didn't go the other route with Niles and Daphne!

There is a very sweet Niles and Daphne scene after Daphne is pregnant, it's in the episode called Guns and Neuroses. Lilith comes for a visit and she and Frasier are set up on a blind date together, not realizing it was the two of them set up on the date.
Anyway, early in the episode Daphne shows up by herself as Martin is fixing an old playpen that belonged to the boys when they were little. He tells her that he is fixing it up for Niles and Daphne's baby but then the thing slams shut, showing how dangerous it really is.
Niles shows up not long after that and Daphne answers the door. They are happy to see each other as they give each other a kiss. It was a real kiss, not the peck on the cheek ones. It was very sweet. Even though they didn't kiss all the time in season 11 you could still see how much in love and happy they were.
I loved it when they held hands, it was so sweet and spontaneous. It just gave me a good feeling all over. When it comes to me, little things like that make me happy. My boyfriend and I hold hands all the time and we don't really kiss all that much yet, but hand holding is just wonderful to me. ;)
I think my favorite scene with them holding hands was in Don't Go Breaking My Heart when they were in Cafe Nervosa. It was like a natural thing for them, they didn't even have to think about it. The fact that Daphne almost lost Niles, spoke volumes.
Niles and Daphne were the most realistic fictional couple ever. That is why I love them so much! :D
I think one of the funniest scenes in that episode is when Lilith speaks to Niles and Daphne: "Daphne, Niles congratulations on the successful co mingling of your genetic material."
After she said that, Daphne had a look like she didn't know what to say at first and then she thanked Lilith. I mean really what are you supposed to say when someone says something like that you? :confused: :lol:
Niles had a great comeback after Lilith asks them what the sex of the baby was.
Lilith:"Do you know the sex?"
Niles:"Do we? That's how we got pregnant!" Too funny! :lol:

I do agree with you Andrea, about DHP and Jane being good friends in real life. It showed onscreen. Even Jane at one point said she had a crush on David so it made working with him even easier. David is the godfather of one of Jane's kids.
DHP is an amazing, wonderful actor and the character of Niles is proof of that. It doesn't get any better than that. He is such a nice guy in real life that it's hard not to like him, he is so likeable, much like the character he played. There will never be another. :)

I'm SO glad they didn't go the other route with Niles and Daphne!
Meeee too! I think it could have been really tempting to give them some kind of problem or drama to try to keep the storylines going for them, but I'm so glad they just let them stay in love and be happy. *whew* :)
I do agree with you Andrea, about DHP and Jane being good friends in real life. It showed onscreen. Even Jane at one point said she had a crush on David so it made working with him even easier. David is the godfather of one of Jane's kids.
It seems like that happens sometimes... where the actors, if they're both nice people, seem to become good friends and maybe even develop little harmless crushes on each other. Mary Tyler Moore and Dick Van Dyke said that same thing, that they attribute their great chemistry in The Dick Van Dyke Show to the fact that they had little crushes on each other. Tony Danza and Judith Light from Who's the Boss said the same thing, and Ms Light has even said on more than one occasion that in another place and time they could possibly have had something more (as in a relationship). The two main characters from Growing Pains, Alan Thicke and Joanna Kerns, have also alluded to having had crushes on each other while they worked on that show. I guess it makes sense-- working that closely with someone, and as I said, if they're both nice people, they're bound to like each other and that's bound to translate onscreen. I think that's cool. :)