So I've never seen this thread on this board (I don't think I have at least.). In your mind, what Unsolved cases will remain that..Unsolved? And by saying they will remain Unsolved, I mean that for the rest of human existence...there will never be closure in these cases. My top 5:

-Charles Morgan. Never will be solved.

-Don Kemp. Ironically, the first one profiled. Will always be Unsolved.

-Dale Kerstetter. Inside jobs = never will be solved.

-Blair Adams. Absolutely no way will be solved.

-Danny Casolaro. Nope.

So I've never seen this thread on this board (I don't think I have at least.). In your mind, what Unsolved cases will remain that..Unsolved? And by saying they will remain Unsolved, I mean that for the rest of human existence...there will never be closure in these cases. My top 5:

-Charles Morgan. Never will be solved.

-Don Kemp. Ironically, the first one profiled. Will always be Unsolved.

-Dale Kerstetter. Inside jobs = never will be solved.

-Blair Adams. Absolutely no way will be solved.

-Danny Casolaro. Nope.

I strongly believe that the Morgan/Kerstetter/Casolaro cases may be solved one day. For me, the Don Kemp case does have closure; he died from exposure, but witnesses were mistaken about hearing from or seeing him.

As for cases that I believe may never be solved:

Ben Stahl paintings theft-Either they were sold outside the country, or within the country and whoever has them doesn't realize who's paintings they are in possession of. Unless Ben Stahl left some sort of distinctive signature or marking on the paintings that established them as his, they will likely never be recovered.

Amtrak derailment-The train derailed in a remote part of the desert, so the elements of nature can easily dissolve any evidence that leads back to the saboteurs.

Skeleton in a box-I don't believe Gabby had anything to do with this man's death. However, the timespan for how long the victim has been dead indicates he was probably long since forgotten or next of kin have died and thus been unable to identify him.

"For me, the Don Kemp case does have closure; he died from exposure, but witnesses were mistaken about hearing from or seeing him."

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but did anyone ever come up with a good explanation as to WHY Donald Kemp got out of his vehicle at the spot that he did in the prairies of Wyoming?

I think the odds are most stacked against those cases that have been "officially" solved. The reason being that it's unlikely the cases are being investigated by anyone in any official capacity other than family members. A lot of the "suicide, accident or murder" cases fall in to this category, as well as many "final appeals".

"For me, the Don Kemp case does have closure; he died from exposure, but witnesses were mistaken about hearing from or seeing him."

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but did anyone ever come up with a good explanation as to WHY Donald Kemp got out of his vehicle at the spot that he did in the prairies of Wyoming?

Maybe he thought his car broke down so he went out looking for help, even rummaging through his possessions for anything that might enable him to signal for help in the cold blizzard he was traveling through. Or he stopped to search through his belongings for something he needed for the road and ended up disoriented then wandered off.

I feel sorry for his mother's loss, I really do. But her stance on her son being murdered does not hold any credibility. She probably feels that way only because of the phone calls to his friend. If he was murdered, why would he have been found within walking distance of where his car was abandoned, and why weren't there any signs of it?

The first one that came to mind is that of Dave Bocks. What little evidence they have is Dave's remains which are kept in Nevada due to radiation. Plus the fact that it was labeled a suicide which is unfathomable. I just doubt this claim ever gets solved.

The first one that came to mind is that of Dave Bocks. What little evidence they have is Dave's remains which are kept in Nevada due to radiation. Plus the fact that it was labeled a suicide which is unfathomable. I just doubt this claim ever gets solved.

I don't remember the Dave Bocks case.

The Kerstetter/Casolaro/Adams cases could get solved.

After reading some of the threads here, I believe Kerstetter was killed and that someone within the company was in on it. With that being said. One person wouldn't be involved in on this. Someone out there either has knowledge of the case or has the security tapes. But there is someone who has information.

Casolaro's case is one that could easily be solved. I believe Casolaro was indeed murdered and I've seen the segment more than a dozen times. In his case it was someone within' the intelligence community who I think did him in. It's doubtful anyone inside of organized crime who did the hit. The case has lingered for so long, someone within' organized crime would have knowledge of it. In a case of intelligence or military, there would be a limited few who would have information. It would be confined into a small group of 2-3. But it would have a paper trail.

In the Blair Adams case I think he knew his killer. It's been an ongoing investigation for about 15 years now and with that much time that's passed someone locally would have knowledge of it and come forth. The attack was so brutal, that I'm sure Adam's would have put up a fight. He worked construction and in a fight probably would have hurt someone. I read somewhere that he had stab wounds on him. If that's true the assailant would have injuries from using the weapon. The assailant could have sought medical attention or confided in someone else as to where he sustained his injuries.

Springfield 3

Donald Eugene Webb

Osama Bin Laden....oh wait a minute..WE GOT HIM!!

Bigfoot

-Glenn & Bessie Hyde

Sharon Kinne. For those who may not remember, she was that brazen chick who murdered her husband in 1960 and is also believed to have murdered a lover and the wife of another lover. She escaped from prison around 1969 and has not been seen since. From what we're told about her in the segment, she was a master of deception and a very smart woman who is probably well capable of hiding herself indefinitely. Also, all of the online people-finding technology available nowadays was unheard of back in 1969, and she's probably changed her name who-knows-how many times since then, so even if someone who ultimately may be her exists in writing somewhere (which is doubtful to begin with), it's unlikely that anyone would ever be able to put two and two together and identify her as such.

-Skeleton in a box/Gabby's chest/Footlocker case: unless the guy in the box is related to me (I'm serious here, he really could be related to me) then I don't see how it will ever be completely solved. The only thing that might be solved is who he is, but definitely not who killed him, when and why.

-Little Miss Panasoffkee: It's been just about 40 years. What is the likelihood that her parents or any other adult that knew her is going to come forward? Or for that matter the doctor who performed the surgery. Forget finding who killed her, we may never even know her identity.

Both of these cases are very sad.

I'm thinking that Hugh Harlan was a lot less spaced out than he's given credit for. Not that I suspect him for what happened to Diane, but I could see him fleeing the scene in a cloud of ragweed pot. He was likely paranoid. Regardless, I would politely venture to guess that he hasn't been with us since he vanished and the body will never be located.

Crystal Spencer probably will not since the remains were cremated. We will probably never know the whole truth about that case.

The Wackers case is highly unlikely as well since they are both deceased now.

Little Miss Panasoffke, very unfortunate there. Cause not only did no one claim her but someone got away with murder.

DB Cooper

Unfortunately, the following missing people will probably never be found, either because the main suspect is deceased or the presumed murderer has already done their time in prison and has no reason to reveal where the body may be:
-Doreen Marfeo
-Pamela Page
-Tommy Gibson
-Annie Hearin
-Jean Moore
-Oliver Munson
-Cathy Ford

And the full truth in many of the "Final Appeal" cases will probably never be known since they are officially "solved" in spite of some unanswered questions. This particularly applies to the cases of Jeffrey MacDonald and Tommy Ziegler. If they're innocent, the real murderers are most likely dead by now. If they're guilty... well, after maintaining their innocence for over 40 years, why would either man confess anytime soon?

-Jean Moore
-Oliver Munson


I agree with all of what you said especially in these two cases. No doubt that we will never find the bodies or the killers unless a confession pops up.

Unfortunately, the following missing people will probably never be found, either because the main suspect is deceased or the presumed murderer has already done their time in prison and has no reason to reveal where the body may be:
-Doreen Marfeo
-Pamela Page
-Tommy Gibson
-Annie Hearin
-Jean Moore
-Oliver Munson
-Cathy Ford

And the full truth in many of the "Final Appeal" cases will probably never be known since they are officially "solved" in spite of some unanswered questions. This particularly applies to the cases of Jeffrey MacDonald and Tommy Ziegler. If they're innocent, the real murderers are most likely dead by now. If they're guilty... well, after maintaining their innocence for over 40 years, why would either man confess anytime soon?

I'm surprised you guys can remember so many names off the top of your head!

Of course I don't see the show that often anymore but you guys must have the DVDs, watch it all the time, or be writing this stuff down.

I'm surprised you guys can remember so many names off the top of your head!

Of course I don't see the show that often anymore but you guys must have the DVDs, watch it all the time, or be writing this stuff down.

Actually, I came up with most of those by scanning through the missing persons section of the Unsolved Mysteries website. I've got a great memory, but it would take me ages to be able to remember all those on my own :lol:

Oliver Munson
The girl from Florida that was supposedly kidnapped by Bikers
The Casie Nicole's crew
Tim Molnar
Angela Hammond
Kurt Sova

The boat hit-and-run
Jennifer Pratt (seems nobody still wants to come forward after all these years)
Jeremy Bright
Scott Johnson

I think the odds of finding the true identity of Sharon Marshall are pretty remote. Franklin Floyd has never cooperated with the authorities about Sharon's background and he will probably take that information to the grace. It's entirely possible Sharon's family never reported her as missing. There are a lot of scenarios that could be considered. Maybe her mother was young or in some kind of legal trouble and willingly gave her up. Floyd could have lied and said he was arranging a legal adoption. He could have offered to "take care of the baby" for someone who later died or simply gave up looking for her. The details about Sharon's life with Floyd are just heartbreaking. This is a case I would love to see solved, but the odds seem to be against it. As for Floyd, he's about as vile as they come.

I meant to say "take that info to the grave." Not the Nancy Grace Show.

The first one that came to mind is that of Dave Bocks. What little evidence they have is Dave's remains which are kept in Nevada due to radiation. Plus the fact that it was labeled a suicide which is unfathomable. I just doubt this claim ever gets solved.


As far as I'm concerned this case is solved, I don't see how the police can think this is anything but a murder, all the evidence points to murder.

I think the odds of finding the true identity of Sharon Marshall are pretty remote. Franklin Floyd has never cooperated with the authorities about Sharon's background and he will probably take that information to the grace. It's entirely possible Sharon's family never reported her as missing. There are a lot of scenarios that could be considered. Maybe her mother was young or in some kind of legal trouble and willingly gave her up. Floyd could have lied and said he was arranging a legal adoption. He could have offered to "take care of the baby" for someone who later died or simply gave up looking for her. The details about Sharon's life with Floyd are just heartbreaking. This is a case I would love to see solved, but the odds seem to be against it. As for Floyd, he's about as vile as they come.

This one is particularly frustrating because it's a mystery that may never be solved, but it really SHOULD! They've got the guy who can solve it RIGHT THERE in prison, but he chooses to remain a sadistic, manipulative sociopath. Not to mention that there's still a missing young boy, Michael Hughes, somewhere out there, but he refuses to reveal what happened to him. You get the feeling that even when Floyd's on his deathbed, he'll still be egotistical enough to take the mystery to his grave.

This one is particularly frustrating because it's a mystery that may never be solved, but it really SHOULD! They've got the guy who can solve it RIGHT THERE in prison, but he chooses to remain a sadistic, manipulative sociopath. Not to mention that there's still a missing young boy, Michael Hughes, somewhere out there, but he refuses to reveal what happened to him. You get the feeling that even when Floyd's on his deathbed, he'll still be egotistical enough to take the mystery to his grave.

Maybe Floyd killed her parents, but for whatever reason (perhaps for want of a "daughter"/sex slave/companion) spared her, took her and raised her to gro up thinking God knows what. She might've known some of the truth about her background, but perhaps not. She might've been told lies and half truths, IE "Your parents gave you to me to take care of when they died", or something similar. I don't believe she was raised thinking Floyd was her biological father, otherwise marrying him becomes very, very strange in both of their cases and shows that she herself had deep issues (though it's no wonder).

Given that the Charley page for Michael says there were pornographic images of not just Sharon Marshall as a child but OTHER children, Floyd may be responsible for a number of child abductions in the '60s, 70s and '80s. His rap sheet as far as being a child molester goes back as early as 1962; His activities may have begun even earlier.

As far as I'm concerned this case is solved, I don't see how the police can think this is anything but a murder, all the evidence points to murder.

I don't think anyone will argue with you, it's definitely murder. But it's not solved until we know who killed Dave Bocks. :)

I'll add George Coniff. Seeing as everyone's dead, I don't see this one ever being solved.

Oliver Munson
The girl from Florida that was supposedly kidnapped by BikersThe Casie Nicole's crew
Tim Molnar
Angela HammondKurt Sova

I think these two are still solveable. Don't remember the other two well enough to say.

The boat hit-and-run
Jennifer Pratt (seems nobody still wants to come forward after all these years)
Jeremy BrightScott Johnson

Why Jeremy Bright? From everything I've read everyone in that whole area seems to have a pretty good idea who was involved, the only mystery is how it happened and where the body is. That could still come out with relative ease IMHO.

Unless everyone has completely dropped the ball on this and Jeremy turns up alive somewhere, this one is half solved already IMO.

I don't think anyone will argue with you, it's definitely murder. But it's not solved until we know who killed Dave Bocks. :)I'll add George Coniff. Seeing as everyone's dead, I don't see this one ever being solved.

anytime there is high level corruption or cover ups involved, seems the truth has a way of not coming out. Look at Danny Cassalero and Charles Morgan.

Money and power talk in the world unfortunately.

Chaim Weiss is another one I don't think will be solved unless someone confesses or a witness whose been quiet all these years comes forward. Just not enough physical evidence.

anytime there is high level corruption or cover ups involved, seems the truth has a way of not coming out. Look at Danny Cassalero and Charles Morgan.

Money and power talk in the world unfortunately.

I would agree to some extent. But when you're talking of conspiracies there is a tight rope that needs to be walked. In any conspiracy (even involving the government) there is more than 1 person involved or who has knowledge of this. In any 1 group involved in a conspiracy there is a weak link that can exposes the nature of the conspiracy and motives. Government conspiracies are even harder expose and get information on. Because the federal government can classify anything under the term "national security". Especially after 9/11.

Are the Casolaro and Morgan cases unsolvable? No. A lot of these conspiracies get solved, but how they are handled is hush hush. For all we know, the FBI could have investigated the Casolaro case. Found inconsistancies in the original investigation, found out the truth, found the culprit(s), and swept everything under the rug. All this could have been done within the past 20 years. The fact is when this type of stuff is made public, it's only made available to a small number of people.

All I'm trying to say is that in cases of any kind of conspiracy, no case is unsolvable. If they weren't, we wouldn't have half of organized crime informants in protective custody.

Maybe Floyd killed her parents, but for whatever reason (perhaps for want of a "daughter"/sex slave/companion) spared her, took her and raised her to gro up thinking God knows what. She might've known some of the truth about her background, but perhaps not. She might've been told lies and half truths, IE "Your parents gave you to me to take care of when they died", or something similar. I don't believe she was raised thinking Floyd was her biological father, otherwise marrying him becomes very, very strange in both of their cases and shows that she herself had deep issues (though it's no wonder).

Given that the Charley page for Michael says there were pornographic images of not just Sharon Marshall as a child but OTHER children, Floyd may be responsible for a number of child abductions in the '60s, 70s and '80s. His rap sheet as far as being a child molester goes back as early as 1962; His activities may have begun even earlier.

I've always believed that no matter how horrible they may be, a person should NOT be given the death penalty if they possess pertinent information about the fate or identity of other people which they refuse to divulge. If Floyd is forced to rot inside a cell for a long time, there's always the chance he could crack and decide to share what he knows, but putting him to death doesn't do anyone any good.

I've always believed that no matter how horrible they may be, a person should NOT be given the death penalty if they possess pertinent information about the fate or identity of other people which they refuse to divulge. If Floyd is forced to rot inside a cell for a long time, there's always the chance he could crack and decide to share what he knows, but putting him to death doesn't do anyone any good.

If you are anti death penalty thats fine, I respect that. I don't really agree but I respect it.

However, why reward someone with more time alive just for having and hiding information? Doesn't make much sense. Floyd is already in prison for life why would he crack now? He'll hold it in just for spite, its quite obvious the guy has no decency whatsoever and pretty much hates the world. That guy is an animal and might as well be done away with. Good for converting Oxygen into Carbon dioxide and thats about it.

I would actually be more in favor of reducing a sentence if they do give information than I would just letting them live for simply knowing and hiding it.

If you are anti death penalty thats fine, I respect that. I don't really agree but I respect it.

However, why reward someone with more time alive just for having and hiding information? Doesn't make much sense. Floyd is already in prison for life why would he crack now? He'll hold it in just for spite, its quite obvious the guy has no decency whatsoever and pretty much hates the world. That guy is an animal and might as well be done away with. Good for converting Oxygen into Carbon dioxide and thats about it.

I would actually be more in favor of reducing a sentence if they do give information than I would just letting them live for simply knowing and hiding it.

Well, I'm not ALWAYS against the death penalty and wouldn't apply this logic to very many people on death row, but the thing with Floyd is that he is clearly getting off with and garnering much enjoyment from withholding information and playing games with the authorities. I just feel that Floyd would consider it a major victory if he was able to leave this world without revealing all these secrets, and I could even see him laughing about when they're putting him to death.

I obviously don't like wasting taxpayer money to house and feed a guy like that for the rest of his life, but there is always a chance that someone can reach their breaking point after living in a tiny cell for several years and decide they want to negotiate a better situation for themselves. I know Floyd would never reveal his secrets out of decency, but he still might if it meant benefiting himself. Hell, numerous unsolved murders have been solved because a convict who was in prison for another crime and was never a suspect in the first place decided they wanted to confess in exchange for certain privileges.

But you're right, keeping Floyd alive would come across as rewarding him for being manipulative, so it is a major gray area. I just hate the idea of potentially keeping a mystery unsolved forever by eliminating the one person who could solve it. I feel the same way about Marvin Gabrion and the fate of baby Shannon.

Maybe Floyd killed her parents, but for whatever reason (perhaps for want of a "daughter"/sex slave/companion) spared her, took her and raised her to gro up thinking God knows what. She might've known some of the truth about her background, but perhaps not. She might've been told lies and half truths, IE "Your parents gave you to me to take care of when they died", or something similar. I don't believe she was raised thinking Floyd was her biological father, otherwise marrying him becomes very, very strange in both of their cases and shows that she herself had deep issues (though it's no wonder).

Given that the Charley page for Michael says there were pornographic images of not just Sharon Marshall as a child but OTHER children, Floyd may be responsible for a number of child abductions in the '60s, 70s and '80s. His rap sheet as far as being a child molester goes back as early as 1962; His activities may have begun even earlier.
The book "A Beautiful Child" gives the likely fate of Michael. Of course until a body is found or proof etc etc it's still just second-hand, but sadly it seems true. If any of you here haven't read it, please do. I had such a hard time reading it but it really shines so many facts on the case that the episode didn't have time to do.

One thing to remember is that FDF had to have been very confident that her identity would "never" be found. He was brazen enough to take pictures with her, allow her to attend school. He was very confident no one was looking for her. Thankfully there is her DNA that is still in existence. Somehow, maybe, this will be solved.

Angela Hammond's case will never be solved, unless her (now) elderly killer breaks his conscience.

Angela Hammond's case will never be solved, unless her (now) elderly killer breaks his conscience.

The Monster may not be elderly today in 2011. Middle Aged - highly likely, but not necessarily elderly.

Another UM case that I believe will never be solved is the case of Lauria Bible and Ashley Freeman- the two best friends who disappeared after Ashely's trailer home burned to the ground. Ashley's parents, Danny and Kathy were found among the debris but autopsys showed that they were shot before the fire commenced. This case has baffled me for years and I would love to see it solved but since the Krieg Country sherrifs department in Vinita Oklahoma were feuding with the Freeman family over the "wrongful death" law suit they had placed on the sherrif department regarding their son Shane; I doubt it will ever be solved. I believe the sherrifs department was involved and its a cover-up. Any other thoughts?? :confused:

What about the mystery of the body in the footlocker? From what I remember, it was proven that the individual died from a gunshot wound. If my memory is correct, scientists think the individual was murdered roughly around the 1920's or 30's. That is literally a case that will never be solved, imo.

The Monster may not be elderly today in 2011. Middle Aged - highly likely, but not necessarily elderly.
Most likely anywhere from 50-60 to maybe 65 years old. The abductor was probably in his 30's to early 40's at the time of the crime, although he probably looked older than what he was.

This case has never really been discussed much here on the board, Mary Ann Perez, a woman who was supposedly kidnapped and murdered by two serial killers (a man and his wife, I forgot the names) in Louisiana. They confessed and even told the authorities where they dumped her body, LE searched the area and she wasn't located. The killer said he was drunk at the time and may have not killed her just knocked her out. Then years after the crime the family go a phone call saying that she was still alive but couldn't call back. Its very unlikely this case will be solved.

I think that the mysteries of Charles Southern and Oliver Munson will never be solved.

With the advancement in forensic evidence and DNA profiling, I wouldn't write off these cold cases as one that will never be solved. There's always the possibility that someone will have a deathbed confession, or a body will be found with DNA from the murderer on them, etc. I always thought the Mike Riemer/Diana Robertson case would never be solved, and while it sill is classified as unsolved, at least they found Riemer's remains. I also never thought Mahfuz Huq would ever be captured, but he was a few months ago. There's always hope.

EDIT - I can't believe I spelled write wrong.

With the advancement in forensic evidence and DNA profiling, I wouldn't right off these cold cases as one that will never be solved. There's always the possibility that someone will have a deathbed confession, or a body will be found with DNA from the murderer on them, etc. I always thought the Mike Riemer/Diana Robertson case would never be solved, and while it sill is classified as unsolved, at least they found Riemer's remains. I also never thought Mahfuz Huq would ever be captured, but he was a few months ago. There's always hope.

You're right, the Mike Emert murder is a recent example of a case that would have remained unsolved forever if it weren't for the advancment DNA profiling, which allowed a deceased criminal to be tied directly to his death.

And I think the concept of the deathbed confession is a last hope one can always cling to. Jeffrey MacDonald and Tommy Ziegler don't have much time left and if they really were guilty all along, the only way we'll ever know for sure if they make a deathbed confession. I know that Jule Caylor is getting up there in age and if he really did murder his wife, I always cling to the possibility that he might decide to confess sometime down the road. But unfortunately, Steven Marfeo and Rob Page didn't leave behind any information about happened to their wives when they left this world, so a deathbed confession is never a guarantee, especially if said person is an egotistical sociopath or just doesn't believe in the afterlife.

when we all die and go to heaven, then we willk find all the answers to lifes questions including the answers to all the UM unsolved segments.

I'm surprised you guys can remember so many names off the top of your head!

Of course I don't see the show that often anymore but you guys must have the DVDs, watch it all the time, or be writing this stuff down.

With the advancement in forensic evidence and DNA profiling, I wouldn't right off these cold cases as one that will never be solved. There's always the possibility that someone will have a deathbed confession, or a body will be found with DNA from the murderer on them, etc. I always thought the Mike Riemer/Diana Robertson case would never be solved, and while it sill is classified as unsolved, at least they found Riemer's remains. I also never thought Mahfuz Huq would ever be captured, but he was a few months ago. There's always hope.

Agreed. The only cases that will absolutely never be "solved" are the paranormal cases, since they are non-scientific to begin with and there's no way the opposing sides will convince each other.

The "legends" cases are generally poor choices to be "solved" as well, but it is possible some of these can be - witness Anastasia (although I'm sure some die-hards still dispute this, even with multiple DNA samples that render the chance of contamination next to nil).

There's always a chance for the criminal cases. Bodies are found, people confess, etc. Admittedly, the chances might be slim, even very slim, but it's never impossible.

Personally, I doubt Dave Bocks' case will ever be solved. Not much of his remains are left and those that are left are sealed off underground in Nevada somewhere due to the radiation. Plus I do not believe his old workplace is still there and operational. No crime scene, no body = no good outcome unless someone confesses which I highly doubt as well.

Personally, I doubt Dave Bocks' case will ever be solved. Not much of his remains are left and those that are left are sealed off underground in Nevada somewhere due to the radiation. Plus I do not believe his old workplace is still there and operational. No crime scene, no body = no good outcome unless someone confesses which I highly doubt as well.

What was the name of his boss that he was supposedly last seen with?

What was the name of his boss that he was supposedly last seen with?

I don't think they ever released the persons name who he was last seen with.

Springfield 3

Donald Eugene Webb

Osama Bin Laden....oh wait a minute..WE GOT HIM!!

Bigfoot


I think the Springfield 3 will def be solved. They've all but dug and found the bodies that that guy found with his radar in that parking garage as of December 2010. Any new developments in that??

I love this site so far. Didn't know there were so many intrigued UM fans like me out there

I strongly believe that the Morgan/Kerstetter/Casolaro cases may be solved one day. For me, the Don Kemp case does have closure; he died from exposure, but witnesses were mistaken about hearing from or seeing him.

As for cases that I believe may never be solved:

Ben Stahl paintings theft-Either they were sold outside the country, or within the country and whoever has them doesn't realize who's paintings they are in possession of. Unless Ben Stahl left some sort of distinctive signature or marking on the paintings that established them as his, they will likely never be recovered.

Amtrak derailment-The train derailed in a remote part of the desert, so the elements of nature can easily dissolve any evidence that leads back to the saboteurs.

Skeleton in a box-I don't believe Gabby had anything to do with this man's death. However, the timespan for how long the victim has been dead indicates he was probably long since forgotten or next of kin have died and thus been unable to identify him.


Anyone know where I can read more or watch video of the skeleton in a box case? Or the Amtrak derailment?

Jennifer Pratt (seems nobody still wants to come forward after all these years)



x2

I think the odds of finding the true identity of Sharon Marshall are pretty remote. Franklin Floyd has never cooperated with the authorities about Sharon's background and he will probably take that information to the grace. It's entirely possible Sharon's family never reported her as missing. There are a lot of scenarios that could be considered. Maybe her mother was young or in some kind of legal trouble and willingly gave her up. Floyd could have lied and said he was arranging a legal adoption. He could have offered to "take care of the baby" for someone who later died or simply gave up looking for her. The details about Sharon's life with Floyd are just heartbreaking. This is a case I would love to see solved, but the odds seem to be against it. As for Floyd, he's about as vile as they come.


just watched that one on youtube. that one is sad and mystifying

The girl from Florida that was supposedly kidnapped by Bikers

Kurt Sova

amy billig was her name

I think that the mysteries of Charles Southern and Oliver Munson will never be solved.


that leader of the cult southern is in is still alive. in fact, she runs a website selling photo's and it even has her phone number on it


i think one of us should give her a call sometime

They'll never find any of those damned lost treasures ever profiled on UM.

They'll never find any of those damned lost treasures ever profiled on UM.

nice Avatar

thank you sir

Got to wonder if Danny Wheeler realizes he's an internet sensation.

Anyone know where I can read more or watch video of the skeleton in a box case? Or the Amtrak derailment?

For the skeleton in a box, do a search under "U.M.-Footlocker Case" and you'll find it. As far as I can tell, the Amtrak segment isn't anywhere online.

I would have to say the wackers:(. I would imagine the harassment of bill and dorothy stopped after UM profiled the case....if not at that moment, I hope dorothy would have moved after Bill passed away in 1994. Since Dorothy has passed 2...the chance of finding the perpetrator are very slim indeed.

Tom Johnson
Brad Bishop
Maria Rosa Hernandez
Joe Maloney

I remember watching a case on UM with RS, that was a totally separate segment than the Charles Morgan case, but it was somehow related to it. A guy in Phoenix was shot in the back of the head while going to work in the EARLY morning hours. (still dark out) They think this was an accident, and that bullet was actually meant for a guy who drove a very similar car that lived across the street. I think he was trying to uncover something, and his name was Don something. I THINK. Could be wrong on his name. He was interviewed during the segment, and said he thought that bullet was meant for him, and had recieved a letter saying that he was next. Did that guy ever end up getting shot/was this case ever solved. It was in the early 90's.

I remember watching a case on UM with RS, that was a totally separate segment than the Charles Morgan case, but it was somehow related to it. A guy in Phoenix was shot in the back of the head while going to work in the EARLY morning hours. (still dark out) They think this was an accident, and that bullet was actually meant for a guy who drove a very similar car that lived across the street. I think he was trying to uncover something, and his name was Don something. I THINK. Could be wrong on his name. He was interviewed during the segment, and said he thought that bullet was meant for him, and had recieved a letter saying that he was next. Did that guy ever end up getting shot/was this case ever solved. It was in the early 90's.

I believe that was Don Devereaux and no I do not think it has ever been solved.

Yup! That's the guy!

I believe that was Don Devereaux and no I do not think it has ever been solved.


Don Devereaux was the target. The victim was Don Johnston. They never will solve that mystery.

Oh ya and add the zodiac to this list because the one guy they thought could be the killer Arthur Leigh Allen died 20 years ago

that leader of the cult southern is in is still alive. in fact, she runs a website selling photo's and it even has her phone number on it


i think one of us should give her a call sometime


whats the website??

Oh ya and add the zodiac to this list because the one guy they thought could be the killer Arthur Leigh Allen died 20 years ago


have you seen the one where they think Ted Kaczynski (Unabomber) is the Zodiac?? Its a compelling argument for sure...

I don't think that Arthur Leigh Allen dude was him....

Oh ya and add the zodiac to this list because the one guy they thought could be the killer Arthur Leigh Allen died 20 years ago

His DNA did not match the Zodiac.

Remember Tommy Burkett (Burket)? Just watched that one.... strange strange things going on there

anyone know where i can watch that episode?? about don devereux?

Michael Rosenblum. This case is weird. It seems like the police department just made LAZY mistake and tried covering them up. Friends in high places got the police cheif reinstated.

Nevertheless, it WOULD be nice to know WHAT HAPPENED to Michael

He probably hasn't discovered the internet yet.

My name is James C. Hays. I have recently put my True Crime book on Barnes & Noble Nook and Amazon.com's Kindle. My research leads me to believe that Ms. Kinne is still alive. I am the author of "I'm just an ordinary girl." The Sharon Kinne Story. My book was the basis for the Unsolved Mysteries episode. The Kinne story is also on Discovery I.D. Channel's series Deadly Women (episode title: Born Bad). I also appear on both. It has also been featured on Nippon Television's Sekai Gyoten News. This book sells for $2.99.
Kindle Link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0059UGPSM/ref=cm_cd_asin_lnk
B&N Nook Link: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/im-just-an-ordinary-girl-the-sharon-kinne-story-hays/1104012961?ean=2940012762597&itm=1&usri=james%2bhays

Someone said that Philip Innes Frasier's murder may never be solved. That's the young Alaskan man who was murdered by a hitchhiker in 1989 and the guy stole Philip's identity. As in the words of missing Iowa anchorwoman Jodi Huisentruit's sister: "you can't give up hope, that's what gets you up in the morning". I think she is right, and we can't give up hope that maybe someday alot if not all of these cases will be solved.

have you seen the one where they think Ted Kaczynski (Unabomber) is the Zodiac?? Its a compelling argument for sure...

I don't think that Arthur Leigh Allen dude was him....

The latest theory is that Kacyzski is ALSO responsible for the Tylenol killings in the early 80s. Even the FBI want to question him on that.

So the Unabomber is guilty of ALL unsolved murders??

Zodiac Killer-Short of DNA or the real killer coming forward this will always be a who dunnit.

have you seen the one where they think Ted Kaczynski (Unabomber) is the Zodiac?? Its a compelling argument for sure...

I don't think that Arthur Leigh Allen dude was him....
The story about the Zodiac saying he escaped from a prison in Deer Lodge Montana is hogwash apparently

I think the Springfield 3 will def be solved. They've all but dug and found the bodies that that guy found with his radar in that parking garage as of December 2010. Any new developments in that??

I love this site so far. Didn't know there were so many intrigued UM fans like me out there

I'm not familiar with this "Springfield 3" case. Are you able to provide more info on it? Is there a video uploaded on THAT Video Sharing site I can check out? Cheers. :grineyes:

"Debbie" from NC that was shot in the face point blank with a shotgun. No one could ID the man after the attack and he ditched the getaway car in Florida. It's been too long. I don't even think there is an open investigation?

"Carol" who was shot through the window of her car. Random road rage attack.

Dexter Stefonek- It's been 25 years. Unless the man who did it confesses if he's alive not getting solved anytime soon. The killer probably had gloves on so any fingerprints would not be recovered because it was wintertime in the NorthWest.

I'm not familiar with this "Springfield 3" case. Are you able to provide more info on it? Is there a video uploaded on THAT Video Sharing site I can check out? Cheers. :grineyes:

Who's that chick on your avatar? it looks strangely like Patricia Meehan !

Who's that chick on your avatar? it looks strangely like Patricia Meehan !

LOL, no it's not Patricia Meehan. It's Aussie actress Collette Mann from the Cult Australian series "Prisoner : Cell Block H". The screen shot is from the opening credits circa 1980 when Collette was playing the part of Doreen Anderson-Burns. The first 2 Seasons (Of 8) screened in the US around 1979-1980 then was abruptly pulled off air. :(

I'm not familiar with this "Springfield 3" case. Are you able to provide more info on it? Is there a video uploaded on THAT Video Sharing site I can check out? Cheers. :grineyes:

Yes, you'll find an excellent episode of "Disappeared" chroncling the Springfield Three case on THAT site ;) .

The latest theory is that Kacyzski is ALSO responsible for the Tylenol killings in the early 80s. Even the FBI want to question him on that.

So the Unabomber is guilty of ALL unsolved murders??

Yep.

I'm not familiar with this "Springfield 3" case. Are you able to provide more info on it? Is there a video uploaded on THAT Video Sharing site I can check out? Cheers. :grineyes:

I wasn't familiar with the case either until tonight when I read this thread. I honestly don't remember it being featured on UM. Can anyone give me more details on this? Was it briefly mentioned or did it have its own segment?

I wasn't familiar with the case either until tonight when I read this thread. I honestly don't remember it being featured on UM. Can anyone give me more details on this? Was it briefly mentioned or did it have its own segment?

The Springfield Three case being featured on UM has been a hotly debated topic on here recently. Most people seem to think it wasn't on the show, but a couple people claim to have seen it or have the segment on tape somewhere. Personally, I don't remember ever seeing it and there doesn't seem to be any footage of a Springfield Three UM segment anywhere on the Net, so if it was on the show, I'd guess it was probably a brief special alert.

David Hurley's murder may never be solved, and this is one case that I really want to see some closure brought to it.

So the Unabomber is guilty of ALL unsolved murders??

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://comeyoumastersofwar.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/sax.png&imgrefurl=http://comeyoumastersofwar.wordpress.com/2010/04/08/how-good-was-the-springfield-power-plant-team/&usg=__JUEjsx4wQrtKmzA6D5QQ33KVVfo=&h=329&w=438&sz=216&hl=en&start=0&sig2=mhj5CPqodhxafoQLdRX5xg&zoom=1&tbnid=DCMzSdkfHuH5lM:&tbnh=175&tbnw=228&ei=b8omTpKpD8GnsQLqm83hCw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsimpsons%2Bsteve%2Bsax%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D667%26tbm%3Disch%26prmd%3Divnso&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=377&vpy=278&dur=1272&hovh=195&hovw=259&tx=100&ty=84&page=1&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0&biw=1366&bih=667

Guess we can close the book on every unsolved murder!

Is it just me or does it seem like more of the cases where witnesses appear in silhouette are solved less or is it purely coincidental? Yes, Charles Whitman was captured when his sister got the whole silhouette and voice alter package and Reggie Depalma was captured when his rape victims appeared in silhouette but the "Tom Johnson" case isn't getting solved unless someone confesses or the mystery lady pulls out his license plate number out her ass. "Shotgun survivor" in NC won't be solved anytime soon. Nor will "Carol". Or Donnie Hansen. Or the murder of Morris Davis.

Now that I think about it, has any case on UM where a victim died of a so-called "suicide" under suspicious circumstances (i.e. Keith Warren, Norman Ladner, Tommy Burkett) ever been solved? Hell, have any of the victims' friends and family even succeeded at getting the cause of death officially changed to murder, let alone solved the case?!

I know these mysteries are almost impossible to solve since they are officially classified as "closed" by LE, but I'm struggling to think an example where the exposure on UM helped bring some resolution to the case.

Now that I think about it, has any case on UM where a victim died of a so-called "suicide" under suspicious circumstances (i.e. Keith Warren, Norman Ladner, Tommy Burkett) ever been solved? Hell, have any of the victims' friends and family even succeeded at getting the cause of death officially changed to murder, let alone solved the case?!

I know these mysteries are almost impossible to solve since they are officially classified as "closed" by LE, but I'm struggling to think an example where the exposure on UM helped bring some resolution to the case.


Ted Binion was thought to be suicide but was ruled murder and solved. Thats the only one I can think of relative to what you posted

"Ted Binion was thought to be suicide but was ruled murder and solved. Thats the only one I can think of relative to what you posted."

Well it was solved, but the girlfriend and the (lawyer, other boyfriend of the girlfriend???) were later released on appeal...so no one actually ever was punished for killing Ted Binion. :(

Sarah Powell

-The case where a 14 year old girl from Houston, Texas is attacked in her own house, and develops amnesia and seizures afterwards.

-Just so many unanswered questions and no evidence.

-18 years has passed and she is now 32, probably married with kids, and has put this incident behind her

Now that I think about it, has any case on UM where a victim died of a so-called "suicide" under suspicious circumstances (i.e. Keith Warren, Norman Ladner, Tommy Burkett) ever been solved? Hell, have any of the victims' friends and family even succeeded at getting the cause of death officially changed to murder, let alone solved the case?!

I know these mysteries are almost impossible to solve since they are officially classified as "closed" by LE, but I'm struggling to think an example where the exposure on UM helped bring some resolution to the case.

Kathy Bonderson-she was believed to have died in a car accident, although there was a debate as to if she was murdered or not. In 2006, her husband was charged with her murder, but he later commited suicide.
Joyce Chiang-one of the DC interns whose case was closed by LE and ruled a suicide because they couldn't determine the cause of death (which I think is crazy). Just a month or two ago, the police ruled that Joyce was murdered and that the two men responsible may never be charged.
Doris Duke-wealthy heiress and recluse that was believed to have been murdered by the heir to her estate, Bernard Lafferty. However, in this case, it was later determined after the broadcast that she had died accidentally and the case was closed.
Michelle Witherell-woman who fell of her balcony. Her husband says she died accidentally, but her family believes that she was murdered. Then, after the broadcast, her husband is charged with murder but is acquitted. Her death is later ruled "accidental/suicide"
Nancy Manni-woman found drowned in the Chesapeake Bay. Police could not determine cause of death. After the broadcast, John O'Meara was charged with her murder.
Patti and Ryan Stallings-Patti was charged with the murder of her son, Ryan, although many believed that he had died from MMA. Several doctors watched the broadcast and it was determined that Ryan did die accidentally, and Patti was released.
Sandra Orellana-woman found dead after "falling" off of her hotel balcony. Robert Salazar, her boss whom she was staying with, was charged with her murder, but was acquitted.
Those are the case that I can think of.

Kathy Bonderson-she was believed to have died in a car accident, although there was a debate as to if she was murdered or not. In 2006, her husband was charged with her murder, but he later commited suicide.
Joyce Chiang-one of the DC interns whose case was closed by LE and ruled a suicide because they couldn't determine the cause of death (which I think is crazy). Just a month or two ago, the police ruled that Joyce was murdered and that the two men responsible may never be charged.
Doris Duke-wealthy heiress and recluse that was believed to have been murdered by the heir to her estate, Bernard Lafferty. However, in this case, it was later determined after the broadcast that she had died accidentally and the case was closed.
Michelle Witherell-woman who fell of her balcony. Her husband says she died accidentally, but her family believes that she was murdered. Then, after the broadcast, her husband is charged with murder but is acquitted. Her death is later ruled "accidental/suicide"
Nancy Manni-woman found drowned in the Chesapeake Bay. Police could not determine cause of death. After the broadcast, John O'Meara was charged with her murder.
Patti and Ryan Stallings-Patti was charged with the murder of her son, Ryan, although many believed that he had died from MMA. Several doctors watched the broadcast and it was determined that Ryan did die accidentally, and Patti was released.
Sandra Orellana-woman found dead after "falling" off of her hotel balcony. Robert Salazar, her boss whom she was staying with, was charged with her murder, but was acquitted.
Those are the case that I can think of.

Ah, good choices, thanks. Of course, I'm still waiting for the full resolution of a UM case where it appears that LE was involved in the cover-up and played a part in writing the death of the victim off as suicide. Keith Warren's friends and family still keep the spotlight on his case after 24 years, so hopefully, they will find resolution some day...

Now that I think about it, has any case on UM where a victim died of a so-called "suicide" under suspicious circumstances (i.e. Keith Warren, Norman Ladner, Tommy Burkett) ever been solved? Hell, have any of the victims' friends and family even succeeded at getting the cause of death officially changed to murder, let alone solved the case?!

I know these mysteries are almost impossible to solve since they are officially classified as "closed" by LE, but I'm struggling to think an example where the exposure on UM helped bring some resolution to the case.
Not any I can remember they never solved the Brian Nisenfeld case as far as I know

Anyone remember the case where an unknown person plays a game of cat and mouse with a woman in her car on the interstate (I think). The man chased her for a long time, but she was able to signal to her boyfriend. He got out of his car and confronted the man when they were stopped. He was shot and killed.

It seems like this segment aired on Lifetime constantly. The only theory police had as far as motive was that the woman's car had a license plate with a reference to the 49ers on it.

That's a case I doubt will be solved.

Anyone remember the case where an unknown person plays a game of cat and mouse with a woman in her car on the interstate (I think). The man chased her for a long time, but she was able to signal to her boyfriend. He got out of his car and confronted the man when they were stopped. He was shot and killed.

It seems like this segment aired on Lifetime constantly. The only theory police had as far as motive was that the woman's car had a license plate with a reference to the 49ers on it.

That's a case I doubt will be solved.
The murder of Dick Hanson.
Sadly I think its a long shot to be solved.

[QUOTE=xxxxmattxxxx69]"Debbie" from NC that was shot in the face point blank with a shotgun. No one could ID the man after the attack and he ditched the getaway car in Florida. It's been too long. I don't even think there is an open investigation?

From what the casefile said, the police recovered evidence from her car that would easily lead back to the perp (DNA, if I am not mistaken). They'd have to run it through CODIS to get a match. Unless he hasn't submitted a DNA sample to the database like many states require of convicted felons; the perp seemed to fit the profile of someone who has either killed or done serious harm before. I am suprised this case hasn't been solved yet.

[QUOTE=xxxxmattxxxx69]"Debbie" from NC that was shot in the face point blank with a shotgun. No one could ID the man after the attack and he ditched the getaway car in Florida. It's been too long. I don't even think there is an open investigation?

From what the casefile said, the police recovered evidence from her car that would easily lead back to the perp (DNA, if I am not mistaken). They'd have to run it through CODIS to get a match. Unless he hasn't submitted a DNA sample to the database like many states require of convicted felons; the perp seemed to fit the profile of someone who has either killed or done serious harm before. I am suprised this case hasn't been solved yet.


But criminals in some states aren't required to provide DNA. I think they closed the case too."Debbie" had a FB but she since deleted it(under her real name). If he never provided a sample then they wouldn't find him.

Duane Miller (that survivor of the 1995 Oklahoma bombing) he died in 2011.

I believe the man who shot Debbie is probably either in jail for another crime or dead. Someone with that vindictiveness and lack of rationality would probably not be able to keep free/ out of trouble. I think he has certainly harmed before and agree with Matt; without a sample of his DNA ,they just won't know it's him.

Ron Gillespie's death and Paul Freshour cleared in the Circleville letters,unless someone's concious starts to bother them on their deathbed,imo.
also the Wendy Camp murders,which is without a doubt what i believe happend to them,via chad noe and his family.

I don't know if I brought these up before or if someone else did. The carol episode and the 49er hugs were tough. Random acts. The Debbie episode was rough too.

Nicqui McCown is a case that I don't think will ever be officially solved. It's pretty obvious who did it, but since he's deceased we'll never know for sure.

I don't know names, but I remember cases.
Some names
Kurt Sova (this one really pissed Me off
The little girl murdered in Utah where they wrote the note
The bedroom murder "suicide"
The divorced wife where the two sons think the ex step father did it
The hiker who mimics the steps of the guy who previously owned his store
The one where the boy friend is chasing the kidnapper in his car and sees his GF hanging out the window
The one where the guy makes women pull over and convinces them they have car trouble
The one where the old couple have been terrorized in their own home for decades
The man who was shot in Santa Clara, CA. Parking lot in broad day before work
The man who was shot in Sunnyvale Ca after being followed by an unknown predator while escorting his GF home.


So many more, were ANY of these solved!?!?!?

A few that come to mind for me,

Rachel Runyan—Unless there was an update that I may have missed.
Kathy Bonderson-I know it has been mentioned that her husband may have been involved but he has since committed suicide. I think the son must feel horrible for what happened. Knowing his mom was out looking for him the night she died.
Oliver Munson
Dale Kersetter (Sp) I’m not sure if he may have been on this (inside job) or if he was a victim. It seems like he came from a close knit family so I don’t think he’d just up and leave.
Nyleen Kay Marshall-For some reason, I believe she was killed either the day she was abducted or a few days after. I feel as if the notes and calls from the abductor were just someone playing a sick joke.
Marlene Santana-I believe she is alive but doesn’t know her true identity. So it’s pretty much unsolved.

Nyleen Kay Marshall-For some reason, I believe she was killed either the day she was abducted or a few days after. I feel as if the notes and calls from the abductor were just someone playing a sick joke.


Completely agree here. That poor family has truly suffered. Nyleen's mother was raped and murdered while house hunting in Mexico 10-15 yrs ago.

I came across Rachel Runyan on Find A Grave and the notes state her killer has been caught.

I would have to say the wackers:(. I would imagine the harassment of bill and dorothy stopped after UM profiled the case....if not at that moment, I hope dorothy would have moved after Bill passed away in 1994. Since Dorothy has passed 2...the chance of finding the perpetrator are very slim indeed.


This was certainly an unsettling case. I do know that Bill died in 1999 but it is unknown if the harassment continued after his death. Dorothy passed away on July 22, 2010 at age 83.

I don't know names, but I remember cases.
Some names

The divorced wife where the two sons think the ex step father did it Think you're talking about Susan Harrison and the ex step fathers name was Jim Harrisonhttp://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Susan_Harrison
The hiker who mimics the steps of the guy who previously owned his store The strange cases of Tom Young and Keith Reinhard http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Keith_Reinhard
The one where the guy makes women pull over and convinces them they have car trouble Sounds like the murder of Alicia Showalter Reynolds (the route 29 stalker) http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Alicia_Showalter_Reynolds or http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Route_29_Stalker
The one where the old couple have been terrorized in their own home for decades That's the Wacker family- Bill and Dorothy http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Bill_and_Dorothy_Wacker

Should be some updates (hopefully) on that website link(s)


So many more, were ANY of these solved!?!?!?

Cases that I feel will never be solved?

None of them.

I think one of the biggest problems in today's society is defeatist behavior. People give up too easily. Always believe that the right thing can come true. Even if you lose by a country mile, always believe you can win.

Socorro de la pine

Cases that I feel will never be solved?

None of them.

I think one of the biggest problems in today's society is defeatist behavior. People give up too easily. Always believe that the right thing can come true. Even if you lose by a country mile, always believe you can win.

I think we can forgeo the sanctimonious lectures here, wiseguy. Obviously, there's always a chance any individual case may be solved, by a deathbed confession if nothing else. The spirit of the thread is about if you had to bet, which cases do you believe would remain unsolved.

And the reality is there are lots of candidates for that. Take the old couple who were robbed & the woman and the motorist killed at that rest stop. That's a case I think everyone here would love to be solved, prays is solved. I know a few years back there was some talk that there might have been a break in the case, but all that came to nought as I recall.

Now, this many years later, the one person with the most interest in seeing the case solved is long since dead himself. So there is a distinct lack of that direct sort of pressure for resources. To solve any case without the relative miracle of a voluntary confession requires resources, namely a person or people with access and authority WORKING to solve it. What are the chances, at this point, that the local, provincial, or national authorities (this happened in Canada, right?) are expending active manpower to work this case now, 25 years later? And if they were, what would they even be doing? Any physical evidence they had is either 25 years old or doesn't exist. The guy was only even in the trailer for a minute or two at the most. There is only a vague description of the perpetrator, and, if he's still alive, he's 25 years older now, and probably doesn't look anything like the composite anymore.

Short of an outright confession, HOW could you even go about solving this case - sufficient to prove it in a court of law - at this point? What is there to go on?

There are plenty more like this, or with other kinds of problems (like the principle suspect in a murder or disappearance being dead). LE, understandably, can't always afford to spend resources working on crimes for which the probability of getting a successful prosecution is essentially zilch. Murder has no statute of limitations, it's true, but resources and reality do indeed have their boundaries.

I think we can forgeo the sanctimonious lectures here, wiseguy. Obviously, there's always a chance any individual case may be solved, by a deathbed confession if nothing else. The spirit of the thread is about if you had to bet, which cases do you believe would remain unsolved.

And the reality is there are lots of candidates for that. Take the old couple who were robbed & the woman and the motorist killed at that rest stop. That's a case I think everyone here would love to be solved, prays is solved. I know a few years back there was some talk that there might have been a break in the case, but all that came to nought as I recall.

Now, this many years later, the one person with the most interest in seeing the case solved is long since dead himself. So there is a distinct lack of that direct sort of pressure for resources. To solve any case without the relative miracle of a voluntary confession requires resources, namely a person or people with access and authority WORKING to solve it. What are the chances, at this point, that the local, provincial, or national authorities (this happened in Canada, right?) are expending active manpower to work this case now, 25 years later? And if they were, what would they even be doing? Any physical evidence they had is either 25 years old or doesn't exist. The guy was only even in the trailer for a minute or two at the most. There is only a vague description of the perpetrator, and, if he's still alive, he's 25 years older now, and probably doesn't look anything like the composite anymore.

Short of an outright confession, HOW could you even go about solving this case - sufficient to prove it in a court of law - at this point? What is there to go on?

There are plenty more like this, or with other kinds of problems (like the principle suspect in a murder or disappearance being dead). LE, understandably, can't always afford to spend resources working on crimes for which the probability of getting a successful prosecution is essentially zilch. Murder has no statute of limitations, it's true, but resources and reality do indeed have their boundaries.

I take it you've never seen Cold Case Files?

I think we can forgeo the sanctimonious lectures here, wiseguy. Obviously, there's always a chance any individual case may be solved, by a deathbed confession if nothing else. The spirit of the thread is about if you had to bet, which cases do you believe would remain unsolved.

And the reality is there are lots of candidates for that. Take the old couple who were robbed & the woman and the motorist killed at that rest stop. That's a case I think everyone here would love to be solved, prays is solved. I know a few years back there was some talk that there might have been a break in the case, but all that came to nought as I recall.

Now, this many years later, the one person with the most interest in seeing the case solved is long since dead himself. So there is a distinct lack of that direct sort of pressure for resources. To solve any case without the relative miracle of a voluntary confession requires resources, namely a person or people with access and authority WORKING to solve it. What are the chances, at this point, that the local, provincial, or national authorities (this happened in Canada, right?) are expending active manpower to work this case now, 25 years later? And if they were, what would they even be doing? Any physical evidence they had is either 25 years old or doesn't exist. The guy was only even in the trailer for a minute or two at the most. There is only a vague description of the perpetrator, and, if he's still alive, he's 25 years older now, and probably doesn't look anything like the composite anymore.

Short of an outright confession, HOW could you even go about solving this case - sufficient to prove it in a court of law - at this point? What is there to go on?

There are plenty more like this, or with other kinds of problems (like the principle suspect in a murder or disappearance being dead). LE, understandably, can't always afford to spend resources working on crimes for which the probability of getting a successful prosecution is essentially zilch. Murder has no statute of limitations, it's true, but resources and reality do indeed have their boundaries.

Gord McAllister only died last year in 2012. There'd previously been something floating around here that he passed away in the late 90s, but that was an obvious mistake (maybe another guy with that name?). I'm just glad he lived another 20 years and got remarried. Even though Jackie's death must've haunted the poor man for the rest of his life, at least he got to be happy for a good chunk of years afterwards.

And, just because it's unlikely to solve certain cases, doesn't mean it's impossible. With the totally social internet, DNA testing, and other tech that didn't exist in the 80s/earlier 90s when UM was at its peak. How many cases have been solved/partially solved just recently? Wendy Camp, The Maples/Baskins in 2009, etc.

Point being, don't ever give up.

OldSchooler81 is that you in your profile photo?

Completely agree here. That poor family has truly suffered. Nyleen's mother was raped and murdered while house hunting in Mexico 10-15 yrs ago.

Sickening, absolutely sickening! :(

I think the likelihood of finding the man who shot "Carol" is pretty slim. I don't know how they would ever be able to pin the crime on him/find him without a confession.

I think the likelihood of finding the man who shot "Carol" is pretty slim. I don't know how they would ever be able to pin the crime on him/find him without a confession.

Yeah, unless he comes forward or someone talks. I honestly get the impression, since there was NO motive whatsoever, that this guy might've had a mental illness or something, or was a complete sociopath. Either that, drugs/drunk, or a case of mistaken identity? I wonder how Carol is doing today 25 years later. UM obviously didn't use her real name, but I really felt for her.

OldSchooler81 is that you in your profile photo?

Sure is (my 2013 self, just a few weeks ago, lol). I actually thought the dark lighting made it very UM-y. I don't have a trenchcoat unfortunately, though!

Yeah, unless he comes forward or someone talks. I honestly get the impression, since there was NO motive whatsoever, that this guy might've had a mental illness or something, or was a complete madman/psycho. Or maybe a case of mistaken identity? I wonder how Carol is doing today 25 years later. UM obviously didn't use her real name, but I really felt for her.

I'm sure it wasn't a case of mistaken identity. He had been taunting other drivers in the area, prior to the incident with Carol. I think he was looking for a victim, any victim, and Carol unforunately was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I'm sure it wasn't a case of mistaken identity. He had been taunting other drivers in the area, prior to the incident with Carol. I think he was looking for a victim, any victim, and Carol unforunately was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Yeah, I wonder if the guy high on drugs maybe? Behavior like that would seem to suggest it. If this was someone doing it for thrills, were there any other local reports of it? I'd think something would've surfaced if so. Either way, bizarre and sad case. Hopefully Carol recovered as much as possible.

Another one I doubt will ever be conclusively solved is the story of L'Oiseau Blanc, the plane that may have beaten Lindbergh across the Atlantic (going west), by a few weeks/months. There are several witnesses who heard sputtering aircraft engines in Maine, or an aircraft flying over. And there's the story of a very large engine being pulled out of the woods in the 1940s, and carted off for scrap. The only parts of the plane that would exist, today, would be the fuel tanks and the engines, and if they were carted out of the woods and scrapped, we will never know.

Another one I doubt will ever be conclusively solved is the story of L'Oiseau Blanc, the plane that may have beaten Lindbergh across the Atlantic (going west), by a few weeks/months. There are several witnesses who heard sputtering aircraft engines in Maine, or an aircraft flying over. And there's the story of a very large engine being pulled out of the woods in the 1940s, and carted off for scrap. The only parts of the plane that would exist, today, would be the fuel tanks and the engines, and if they were carted out of the woods and scrapped, we will never know.

That's a good one, and I agree. I remember the story an elderly gentleman told of being a young boy in Maine and hearing what he remembered as the first airplane he ever heard flying overhead. Not only are there probably no materials from any wreckage left, but there probably aren't many people who remember anything about the event left either.

I thought Sharon Marshall had been identified as Suzanne Marie Sevakis? If that's already been posted, I apologize. I'm just reading through the post now, and thought I'd remembered seeing it somewhere...

ETA Sharon Marshall rather than "she".

[QUOTE=xxxxmattxxxx69]"Debbie" from NC that was shot in the face point blank with a shotgun. No one could ID the man after the attack and he ditched the getaway car in Florida. It's been too long. I don't even think there is an open investigation?

From what the casefile said, the police recovered evidence from her car that would easily lead back to the perp (DNA, if I am not mistaken). They'd have to run it through CODIS to get a match. Unless he hasn't submitted a DNA sample to the database like many states require of convicted felons; the perp seemed to fit the profile of someone who has either killed or done serious harm before. I am suprised this case hasn't been solved yet.

I am also surprised the "Debbie" case hasn`t been solved , I agree with your sentiment that given the nature of way Debbie was abducted,raped and shot and the distances traveled by the criminal this guy must have done some stuff to someone before or after Debbie ....

The interesting thing about DNA is that since the crime was in 1990 the way DNA tests were done done in the early to mid 90`s (RFLP) is different to modern techniques (STR) so that evidence would need to be re-tested today to make a proper comparison to profiles currently in CODIS, back in 1990 CODIS was a twinkle in the eye compared to today, I think the agency in charge of this case should try again with testing the evidence..... I remember a cold case from Texas were a taxi driver was shot around 1990 and the killer left a paper bag with a fingerprint and the case went cold until a detective discovered no one had bothered to upload the fingerprint into AFIS ! Once that was done they hit pay dirt :) ....

Ben Stahls missing paintings (these were amazing paintings and its heartbreaking that he died and never found out what happened to them..

The Hit and Run case in Georgia.. (Unless this case has been solved, I don't see it happening) it's just weird that no other drivers reported this behavior ...

Angela Hammond
Cindy James
Gordon Page being found
George Owens (as in his remains won't be found. I think he got lost in the woods and just died as a result)

I can't see the killer of Chaim Weiss being brought to justice anytime soon.

Apologies if this case was already mentioned. I didn't have the time to wade through 9 pages!

Has anybody read the below article? It looks fairly recent.

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/cover.png

I've always believed that no matter how horrible they may be, a person should NOT be given the death penalty if they possess pertinent information about the fate or identity of other people which they refuse to divulge. If Floyd is forced to rot inside a cell for a long time, there's always the chance he could crack and decide to share what he knows, but putting him to death doesn't do anyone any good.

One of the never discussed positive points of the death penalty is that it gives the police and the DA leverage with a killer. The Green River Killer showed the authorities all the burial sites and even confessed to several murders never tied to him (one was considered a drug OD) in order to get life. In contrast, the serial killer (and released from prison after his first murder murderer) Richard Grissom from Kansas could not be threatened with execution and the remains of two of his victims have never been found and Grissom cannot be coerced into revealing the sites although it is obvious he killed them (video footage at an ATM shows him standing behind one victim using the other victim's ATM card and he was almost caught driving a victim's car). Kansas has since then reinstituted the death penalty although no one has been executed under it yet.

The GRK's lawyer wrote a big anti-capital punishment book but to me the book only proved the need for it as he denied being the killer until threatened with the penalty.

to me the unknown dead couple from near I-95 in South Carolina in 1975 seems virtually unsolvable at this point although it seems at the time it happened that it would be easy to solve

Michael Rosenblum. This case is weird. It seems like the police department just made LAZY mistake and tried covering them up. Friends in high places got the police cheif reinstated.

Nevertheless, it WOULD be nice to know WHAT HAPPENED to Michael


Anyone ever watch the show Impastor where the actor Michael Rosenblum (Lex Luthor on Smallville) plays a criminal posing as a small town minister? I like the show and this post reminded me of him because of the name.

My name is James C. Hays. I have recently put my True Crime book on Barnes & Noble Nook and Amazon.com's Kindle. My research leads me to believe that Ms. Kinne is still alive. I am the author of "I'm just an ordinary girl." The Sharon Kinne Story. My book was the basis for the Unsolved Mysteries episode. The Kinne story is also on Discovery I.D. Channel's series Deadly Women (episode title: Born Bad). I also appear on both. It has also been featured on Nippon Television's Sekai Gyoten News. This book sells for $2.99.
Kindle Link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0059UGPSM/ref=cm_cd_asin_lnk
B&N Nook Link: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/im-just-an-ordinary-girl-the-sharon-kinne-story-hays/1104012961?ean=2940012762597&itm=1&usri=james%2bhays


thanks for the blurb. I live near Kansas City and this case has become legendary here. Most older people have imperfect memories of the crime, mostly the femme fatale aspects that made it somewhat unique. A friend of mine pointed out a motel near a drive in in Independence and said that was where a woman murdered somebody when she was a kid. As near as I can tell she meant Kinne who was the only somewhat similar such case I could find.

I haven't researched the case but think Kinne was probably killed in Mexico years ago. She does not seem to have been clever enough to hide out for decades. I'll read the book and reevaluate.

Joyce Chiang-one of the DC interns whose case was closed by LE and ruled a suicide because they couldn't determine the cause of death (which I think is crazy). Just a month or two ago, the police ruled that Joyce was murdered and that the two men responsible may never be charged.
of.

Joyce Chiang was solved. It just hasn't been prosecuted because one of the killers is hiding out in Guyana and the other is already in prison. That's like saying JFK's case is unsolved because Oswald was never prosecuted.

I lived in DC when Joyce Chiang disappeared. She disappeared during a snowstorm in Dc from the Dupont Circle area which is a fancy area swarming with yuppies and students. She only had a block or two to get home and never made it. The suspects apparently had an MO of abducting victims from the street and robbing them but not killing them. In this case they did. Next to my then work was the Anacostia River, crossed by a bridge where the new baseball stadium is now. (The tv show NCIS is also set nearby at the Navy Yard). Her wallet was found on the far side of the bridge. The far side Anacostia, SE DC) is considered the bad part of town. They dragged the river near the bridge and found several bodies of people not even known to be missing, apparent victims of gang or drug crimes, but no Joyce. She was found several months later in the Potomac River in Alexandria. The Anacostia flows into the Potomac a short distance south of the bridge.

considering how old most of these cases are, most of the unsolved cases will never be solved unless someone confesses. Sad but true.

Joyce Chiang was solved. It just hasn't been prosecuted because one of the killers is hiding out in Guyana and the other is already in prison. That's like saying JFK's case is unsolved because Oswald was never prosecuted.

I lived in DC when Joyce Chiang disappeared. She disappeared during a snowstorm in Dc from the Dupont Circle area which is a fancy area swarming with yuppies and students. She only had a block or two to get home and never made it. The suspects apparently had an MO of abducting victims from the street and robbing them but not killing them. In this case they did. Next to my then work was the Anacostia River, crossed by a bridge where the new baseball stadium is now. (The tv show NCIS is also set nearby at the Navy Yard). Her wallet was found on the far side of the bridge. The far side Anacostia, SE DC) is considered the bad part of town. They dragged the river near the bridge and found several bodies of people not even known to be missing, apparent victims of gang or drug crimes, but no Joyce. She was found several months later in the Potomac River in Alexandria. The Anacostia flows into the Potomac a short distance south of the bridge.

Wasn't it speculated that they were in the process of robbing her and she made a break for it, which ripped her coat, and then she fell into the river?

I could be getting cases mixed up. Hence the question.

Pretty sure you have the right case... Torn coat, scattered personal effects near the river... Pretty memorable line from the investigator was to the effect of- If you are going to commit suicide by jumping into the Potomac, you don't care if your Blockbuster Video Card gets wet.

What made it a little confusing is that the segment also explored two similar cases- Chandra Levy and Christine Mirzayan

Ben Stahls missing paintings (these were amazing paintings and its heartbreaking that he died and never found out what happened to them..

The Hit and Run case in Georgia.. (Unless this case has been solved, I don't see it happening) it's just weird that no other drivers reported this behavior ...

Angela Hammond
Cindy James
Gordon Page being found
George Owens (as in his remains won't be found. I think he got lost in the woods and just died as a result)
that was before cell phones. Thought I read once they had a suspect in custody on unrelated charges in a different state

David Hurley's murder may never be solved, and this is one case that I really want to see some closure brought to it.
Reminds me of the GA hit and Run. He had a daughter not mentioned in the UM broadcast.

Wasn't it speculated that they were in the process of robbing her and she made a break for it, which ripped her coat, and then she fell into the river?

I could be getting cases mixed up. Hence the question.

I think that was mentioned. However, the ground is sloping towards the river in the park where her ID was found so it seems unlikely she could have slipped into the river and been rushed away by the current accidentally.

Pretty sure you have the right case... Torn coat, scattered personal effects near the river... Pretty memorable line from the investigator was to the effect of- If you are going to commit suicide by jumping into the Potomac, you don't care if your Blockbuster Video Card gets wet.

What made it a little confusing is that the segment also explored two similar cases- Chandra Levy and Christine Mirzayan

If she was suicidal why wouldn't she just jump off the nearby bridge which did have a pedestrian walkway? I think she was already dead when she went into the water.

If she was suicidal why wouldn't she just jump off the nearby bridge which did have a pedestrian walkway? I think she was already dead when she went into the water.

I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I don't think she committed suicide at all. I think she either fell in accidentally while fleeing an attacker or was killed and her body dumped into the river current to get rid of it and dispose of forensic evidence

Sure is (my 2013 self, just a few weeks ago, lol). I actually thought the dark lighting made it very UM-y. I don't have a trenchcoat unfortunately, though!

What's happened to Oldschooler81? I haven't seen him post on here for ages. :confused:

to me the unknown dead couple from near I-95 in South Carolina in 1975 seems virtually unsolvable at this point although it seems at the time it happened that it would be easy to solve

I think part of the problem is, even with a larger television and online campaign (especially focused on the Quebec region) relatives and friends that would have known them would currently be around sixty or older.

Joan Gay Croft, if she is still alive (and I'm not sure she ever reached adulthood), would be around 73 today, but most of her family and the men who took her likely have since passed away. Her age at the time (4) might have impacted her ability to recollect even being taken by the men.

I don't even know how one would begin to solve the Mary Agnes Gross case without a) researching if there was some sort of hospital mortuary or burial screw up that was then covered up, but made the situation seem more sinister than it was and b) the individual who sent the photo to Marlys Thomas comes forward.

Unless a ship or a diver finds the Freedon or the Antigua, I don't think it'll will ever be known for certain what happened to their respective crews. Finding Felipe/Phillipe, the guy who chartered the Freedon, might help, but even he might not know what happened to the ship.

Ones that I doubt (sadly) will be solved:

Matt Flores--Shot in a parking lot in broad daylight. Supposedly no witnesses.
Kurt Sova--I'm 110% sure the "party host" knows exactly what happened to the kid but...
Macintosh Computer Murder--I read somewhere there was a suspect but no arrest, and then the suspect died?
Chaim Weiss--No one will talk on this, which is sad. Someone attending that school knows something.
Sumter County Does--A couple who were found dead in South Carolina in the 70s. They have never been identified.

...and of course...
D.B. Cooper

I am glad the Wendy Camp mystery was solved, not that we all didn't know what happened after meeting Chad's family on the show. Uggggh.

I will never understand how we can't figure out who the Sumter County Does are.

It's baffling.

I will never understand how we can't figure out who the Sumter County Does are.

It's baffling.
My guess is that they were similar to the Grateful Doe and had nomadic lifestyles so their families didn't report them missing/were estranged from their families/ had no relatives they were close to. Even then, I find it surprising, to be honest.

My guess is that they were similar to the Grateful Doe and had nomadic lifestyles so their families didn't report them missing/were estranged from their families/ had no relatives they were close to. Even then, I find it surprising, to be honest.

The jewelry is just so distinctive....

The jewelry is just so distinctive....
Agreed! I do wonder if the Jane Doe had obtained that jewelry after leaving wherever she was from. Maybe someone gave them to her, perhaps she bought them. No friend, acquaintance, employee at a store etc. recognized the pieces? It's just nuts that we're hitting the 40th year with no leads.

Ones that I doubt (sadly) will be solved:

Matt Flores--Shot in a parking lot in broad daylight. Supposedly no witnesses.
Kurt Sova--I'm 110% sure the "party host" knows exactly what happened to the kid but...
Macintosh Computer Murder--I read somewhere there was a suspect but no arrest, and then the suspect died?
Chaim Weiss--No one will talk on this, which is sad. Someone attending that school knows something.
Sumter County Does--A couple who were found dead in South Carolina in the 70s. They have never been identified.

...and of course...
D.B. Cooper

I am glad the Wendy Camp mystery was solved, not that we all didn't know what happened after meeting Chad's family on the show. Uggggh.
DB cooper is probably one for the "signature" segment thread for sure. It meets all the requirements LOL. It sort of reminds me of Alcatraz. it's like he was good enough to pull that off, but where did he go and why has he never surfaced. why did he never spend a dime. was he just doing it for practice or adventure? Was he the guy that got killed later in another highjacking or was that just a copy cat...he obviously knew where to pull off such an act, but the location was also what I think killed him. did any of the other features outside of UM mention whether or not he grabbed a good chute?

I'm right there with you on matt flores. probably one that stays with me the most because he was a vet. after a long time I've come to the conclusion that it had to be a random act of violence. no one wanted him dead. it's a shame that someone got away with such a disgusting act and could still be alive, but I doubt the latter.

Kurt Sova I probably need to rewatch. seen it many times but for some reason never got into that thread much.

Ben Stahls missing paintings (these were amazing paintings and its heartbreaking that he died and never found out what happened to them..

The Hit and Run case in Georgia.. (Unless this case has been solved, I don't see it happening) it's just weird that no other drivers reported this behavior ...

Angela Hammond
Cindy James
Gordon Page being found
George Owens (as in his remains won't be found. I think he got lost in the woods and just died as a result)
It is strange that the stahl paintings have never surfaced. whomever has them has to be in on that to this day and they are being hoarded as treasure. I figure eventually they will turn up it is just a matter of time. and that's to say if they haven't by now I haven't looked in a while, but also haven't heard that they have. On a weird side note on an episode of storage wars one of the bidders landed old paintings that were high in value. probably stolen I reckon?

hit and run Georgia case is a sad one. cant believe that someone could be so full of hate, but it happens in this world on a daily basis. the person who did that is probably in jail somewhere or dead. I would think. people who are that volatile usually don't stay out of trouble for very long. I would also mention the biker who got hit by the 18 wheeler. I know that stretch of IH 40 been there many times visiting family. it can be a dangerous stretch and there have to be other truckers that knew what happened.

To angela Hammond I would also add the IH 70 suspect and orange sock alma area suspect. those are some of the strangest UM that remain.

Gordy page is heartbreaking to say the least.

I think the likelihood of finding the man who shot "Carol" is pretty slim. I don't know how they would ever be able to pin the crime on him/find him without a confession.
yes another random act, thankfully carol survived. leaves me to wonder who else this person killed and what became of them.

Cases that I feel will never be solved?

None of them.

I think one of the biggest problems in today's society is defeatist behavior. People give up too easily. Always believe that the right thing can come true. Even if you lose by a country mile, always believe you can win.
well said. and as we've seen many have been solved that were ice cold. I think that's what makes this show great is that many viewers never give up and will keep these cases in circulation even when some LE is wiling to give up. We saw that on lifetime and you see it even now. lifetime is still showing episode albeit not RS version. When I first joined the forum I could never imagine that years later I would still be on here posting. I was just looking to connect with UM fans in that moment...and this thread is another great one!

So I've never seen this thread on this board (I don't think I have at least.). In your mind, what Unsolved cases will remain that..Unsolved? And by saying they will remain Unsolved, I mean that for the rest of human existence...there will never be closure in these cases. My top 5:

-Charles Morgan. Never will be solved.

-Don Kemp. Ironically, the first one profiled. Will always be Unsolved.

-Dale Kerstetter. Inside jobs = never will be solved.

-Blair Adams. Absolutely no way will be solved.

-Danny Casolaro. Nope.
Donald Eugene Webb
Philip Frazier

I came across Rachel Runyan on Find A Grave and the notes state her killer has been caught.

This is an interesting tidbit. Did anyone else notice this?

This is an interesting tidbit. Did anyone else notice this?

I feel like I read something to that effect, but don't remember any more details other than that...

This is an interesting tidbit. Did anyone else notice this?

Based on this article (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865661143/Photos-Sunset-park-renamed-in-honor-of-Rachael-Runyan.html) as of August 2016, her killer is still at large.

This is an interesting tidbit. Did anyone else notice this?

Maybe there's more info. about it elsewhere online. That would be another very cold case that's been solved, if true. Are Rachel Runyan's parents still alive?

I highly doubt the crew that did the LA bank heists by tunnelling underground will ever be caught. That was some unbelievable planning and hardwork on their part. They have my respect for how they planned and executed those capers.

I'd be shocked if they were caught. The statute of limitations on the robberies has passed, so they aren't even wanted at this point.

Amy Lynn Bradley

Mike Reimer & Diana Robertson

Black Dahlia - there's no evidence and it's been so long.

What ever happened to Michael Rosenblum will never be found out.

I used to think that the Rudolf Hess murder/suicide would never be solved, but the British documents on the case are set to be released this year (2017.) We may just find out yet.

Donald Eugene Webb
Philip Frazier
Both of those are sp frustrating. I'd imagine back in the day we all though those had a high chance of being solved. But I'm with you now.

Kurt Sova
The Zodiac
Cindy James
Jennifer Pratt

Kurt Sova
The Zodiac
Cindy James
Jennifer Pratt


Jennifer Pratt's has been more or less solved. Everyone in that town knows who did it but won't turn them in. I believe it's past the statute of limitations as well

I don't think Adam Hecht will turn up anytime soon.

Did they ever catch that armored car robber who looks like Sean Penn?? It must've been 20 years ago! If they haven't caught him by now I'm dubious they ever will!

Just sticking to missing persons, unexplained deaths, and murders, Crystal Spencer and the boys in the shed fire stand out the most. To much time has passed, everyone connected to the case is either dead or out of the public eye, and there is just not enough evidence out there existing.

Boston Mall Rapist since the statute of limitations has run out is unlikely to be found, as well as Mabel Woods Dog Kennel Fire perp. But its really sad because both deserve to be locked up forever. We can only hope they are both either in prison for other crimes, experienced a horrible death, or are miserable out there somewhere. Both are despicable people whoever they are, not to mention the piece of trash who shot that poor sea lion. They caught one of the perps but not the other.

It also still shocks me to this day Jay Durham's attacker was never caught. How many truckers could have been on that stretch of road at that time? A lot sure but not so many that they couldn't have come up with a suspect given enough time, and someone had to fix that truck too, not to mention the witness whoever the other trucker was. There was also communication on the highway that night. That is definitely one of those maddening cases that you feel should have been solved and somehow wasn't.

Its also surprising Gordon Page was never found. Not like this kid is trying to hide somewhere. Same with Kristi Krebs. Sadly one or both of those two could have met with foul play from some sicko.

And of course, the government/police coverup conspiracy cases like Danny Cassolero, Michael Franke, that cop the Mafia allegedly took out, the two dollar bill guy whose name I cannot recall, Tommy Burkett, and Jeffery Digman also have a way of never having the truth come out as well.

Probably the 1-70 Killer will never be solved.....unless he left DNA behind.

Did they ever catch that armored car robber who looks like Sean Penn??

I have a feeling one of the posters here had a screenshot of him as their Avatar.

yes another random act, thankfully carol survived. leaves me to wonder who else this person killed and what became of them.

Not only did she survive but she is doing VERY well, thankfully.

Despite this fortunate bright spot, I hate, hate, HATE that this guy got away with it. Just like when I first saw this segment as a 9 year old, I struggle with and have absolutely no answer as to why he would do this.

I used to think that the Rudolf Hess murder/suicide would never be solved, but the British documents on the case are set to be released this year (2017.) We may just find out yet.
I know it came up in another thread but 2017 is gone and I don’t think anything else came about that?

Jennifer Pratt's has been more or less solved. Everyone in that town knows who did it but won't turn them in. I believe it's past the statute of limitations as well
Well who dunnit? Everybody knows but me!

Not only did she survive but she is doing VERY well, thankfully.

Despite this fortunate bright spot, I hate, hate, HATE that this guy got away with it. Just like when I first saw this segment as a 9 year old, I struggle with and have absolutely no answer as to why he would do this.
That’s good to hear about her. For me too it is terrible he got away. One of the first segments I ever saw and was bone chilling for me to watch as a kid.

Patsy Wright is my submission. For me a case that Arlington has given up on.

Patsy Wright is my submission. For me a case that Arlington has given up on.

That's a definite. I will eat my hat if there are ever any new developments on her case, and it really is a shame :(

Pretty much any case that’s 25+ years old and doesn’t have DNA and/or fingerprint evidence just waiting for a match.

Pretty much any case that’s 25+ years old and doesn’t have DNA and/or fingerprint evidence just waiting for a match.

So you're telling me the Beale Cypher will never be solved? :(

Haven't read through this entire thread, but I'll go along with others who I'm sure have already suggested the Jeremy Bright case.

Pretty much any case that’s 25+ years old and doesn’t have DNA and/or fingerprint evidence just waiting for a match.
so true

what about a new eyewitness coming forward? that was meant to be sarcastic...:)

The Santana family babynap perpetrator.

So you're telling me the Beale Cypher will never be solved? :(

I HOPE 'EM GOOD LUCK.

The Santana family babynap perpetrator.

I always thought this one was pretty solvable provided Marlene is still alive.

The Santana family babynap perpetrator.
This one could be....similar cases have been solved. It's a possibility....a hope anyway.

What are the chances of Woody Kelly ever being found and brought to justice? ZERO now!

I just watched the segment then on YouTube for the first time ever. Given the segment's from 1989 and Stack gives his age as 74 that makes Kelly 104 today!

Wasn't Jennifer Kesse profiled in the later years of UM? That one will never be solved because those transient workers who abducted Jennifer are LONG gone and likely out of the country.

Sadly I think even the family has given up.

Wasn't Jennifer Kesse profiled in the later years of UM? That one will never be solved because those transient workers who abducted Jennifer are LONG gone and likely out of the country.

Sadly I think even the family has given up.

Jennifer Kesse’s case was not featured on UM. The final original UM segment aired on September 20, 2002. Jennifer was abducted on January 24, 2006, well over 3 years after UM stopped airing new cases. Her case was featured on the show Disappeared though.

But I agree with you. That one is never getting solved.

What are the chances of Woody Kelly ever being found and brought to justice? ZERO now!

I just watched the segment then on YouTube for the first time ever. Given the segment's from 1989 and Stack gives his age as 74 that makes Kelly 104 today!

He was born October 4, 1943

That would make him 75 today.

http://amwfans.com/thread/1940/woody-kelly-illinois-1985

I remember UM profiled Bigfoot and UFOs and it's 99.99% certain that neither of those will ever be solved!

With regards to Bigfoot, if he REALLY existed we would've found bones, a carcass, or SOMETHING by now! It's true we very rarely find bear carcasses but we see bears in the wild all the time.

I seriously doubt a 7 to 8 foot tall ape could stay hidden in America for CENTURIES on end. If we're talking a remote location like Siberia or the Himalayas it's reasonable to say the chances are higher but still doubtful.

Permon Gilbert. If it really was drug runners who did it, they are long gone by now.

I remember UM profiled Bigfoot and UFOs and it's 99.99% certain that neither of those will ever be solved!

With regards to Bigfoot, if he REALLY existed we would've found bones, a carcass, or SOMETHING by now! It's true we very rarely find bear carcasses but we see bears in the wild all the time.

I seriously doubt a 7 to 8 foot tall ape could stay hidden in America for CENTURIES on end. If we're talking a remote location like Siberia or the Himalayas it's reasonable to say the chances are higher but still doubtful.

Cryptids (Bigfoot), UFOs, and Ghosts are all different guises of the same intelligence.

Cryptids (Bigfoot), UFOs, and Ghosts are all different guises of the same intelligence.

As Willis on Different Strokes said, "Say what"??

As Willis on Different Strokes said, "Say what"??

The same folks who fly UFOs also run haunted houses and masquerade as "Bigfoot". By "folks" I mean a sentient intelligence vastly beyond our own. If you do enough research into this area, you discover many overlapping common denominators, which reveal a modus operandi of deception, disguise, and in some cases malevolence. This intelligence tailors itself to our ability to understand, and for all we know they're "wagging the dog" or intelligently designing our evolution for purposes unknown. In this context, the word alien paints a much spookier picture than just mere extraterrestrials. At best we're a bunch of play-things for their idle amusement. At worst we're some form of resource for these "gods".

"We are part of a symbiotic relationship with something which disguises itself as an extraterrestrial invasion so as not to alarm us." - Terrence McKenna

TL;DR
Conventional explanations for these phenomena have essentially been disproven. I believe that advances in quantum mechanics will lead to more evidence of these others who are manipulating our species. Though we may never know what they are, we may be able to prove their existence through observation.

The same folks who fly UFOs also run haunted houses and masquerade as "Bigfoot". By "folks" I mean a sentient intelligence vastly beyond our own. If you do enough research into this area, you discover many overlapping common denominators, which reveal a modus operandi of deception, disguise, and in some cases malevolence. This intelligence tailors itself to our ability to understand, and for all we know they're "wagging the dog" or intelligently designing our evolution for purposes unknown. In this context, the word alien paints a much spookier picture than just mere extraterrestrials. At best we're a bunch of play-things for their idle amusement. At worst we're some form of resource for these "gods".

"We are part of a symbiotic relationship with something which disguises itself as an extraterrestrial invasion so as not to alarm us." - Terrence McKenna

TL;DR
Conventional explanations for these phenomena have essentially been disproven. I believe that advances in quantum mechanics will lead to more evidence of these others who are manipulating our species. Though we may never know what they are, we may be able to prove their existence through observation.

:eek2: :facepalm:

:eek2: :facepalm:

It sounds crazy, but even the U.S. government has reclassified Unidentified Flying Objects to Unidentified Aerial Phenomena. Top researchers in the field have basically debunked the E.T. hypothesis, but Hollywood doesn't care. A show like Ancient Aliens has been going strong for ten years, yet every episode can be easily debunked.

It sounds crazy, but even the U.S. government has reclassified Unidentified Flying Objects to Unidentified Aerial Phenomena. Top researchers in the field have basically debunked the E.T. hypothesis, but Hollywood doesn't care. A show like Ancient Aliens has been going strong for ten years, yet every episode can be easily debunked.

What did you think of the episode about Hindus receiving some of their ancient texts from aliens?

They showed a temple that has stood for a thousand years despite a massive earthquake that wiped out the rest of the town. The material used to hold the bricks together was made from material (allegedly) 16x stronger than cement whose ingredients came from one of the Hindu texts.

Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan

What did you think of the episode about Hindus receiving some of their ancient texts from aliens?

They showed a temple that has stood for a thousand years despite a massive earthquake that wiped out the rest of the town. The material used to hold the bricks together was made from material (allegedly) 16x stronger than cement whose ingredients came from one of the Hindu texts.

I'm biased against the program because the program is biased towards the ETH. The problem with scriptures is that they're ancient and unverifiable. This doesn't mean they're useless, it just means that we have to take all of our observations with a grain of salt, ergo there may be varying levels of accuracy involved. Hindus have many more demonological entities in their beliefs than say, Christians or Jews. Simply put: Alien does not necessarily equal extraterrestrial. Different cultures refer to these entities by different names.

Let's have a mathematical thought-experiment. Homo Sapiens Sapiens have existed for approx. 200,000 years (according to modern science). The culture of civilization (the rise of cities, aka human habitats that require the importation of resources and the exportation of waste) has existed for 10-15,000 years. Since the 1880s (approx. 140 years) human population has increased over 700%.

To recap:
- Humans existed in harmony with the planet for ~190,000 years.
- Humans developed unsustainable, parasitic habitats that enveloped the planet over ~10,000 - 15,000 years.
- Humans multiplied their numbers 7 times over in just over 100 years.

Now, with these numbers I'm merely suggesting that humans are not in charge. You can take that to mean that we're "asleep at the wheel", but I'm implying that we're intended to think that. Whatever's really steering this thing actively wants to re-enforce our human supremacist attitudes. 7+ Billion people represent a tremendous biomass. We're an asset to somebody. That somebody does not want their identity or existence revealed.

We have to consider the implied premise that Ancient Aliens is offering us: Extraterrestrials have treated the human race like an adopted child or pet, and have dutifully steered our evolution and progress. I suppose the first question is, Why? Or a much better question, Cui Bono? (Who Benefits?). Could this intelligence be responsible for every major milestone in human evolution? Perhaps, but the truly alien aspect would be the question of why they would want to become involved in our messy affairs at all.

Here’s one: what is the **** they’re putting on Farina’s face that makes him look orange? Is it the same **** Trump uses? Who told them that looks good on tv?

Permon Gilbert. If it really was drug runners who did it, they are long gone by now.

I have to say this is one I don't want to agree with, but it's been almost 40 years and it does not look like it is going to happen. given that there were fingerprints and hair found in his van, it might have come from the person who drove it to the abandoned location, which means it is possible that the killer or person who drove the van did not have a criminal record. I think of the 3 scenarios presented on UM, crime of passion is the one I believe the most. but that would mean someone kept a very dark secret.

I'll add another local tie, not patsy wright. Stephanie Booker. That case always struck a nerve with me because I've been to that very area on that lake many times. It was such a terrible and careless action. the person doing it had to of been very intoxicated, and excessive drinking is problematic on that lake. Stephanie and her friends were very lucky to have survived that accident. although Stephanie was seriously injured. I just read that the statute of limitations ran up in 1998. I don't know if that is true, but nevertheless that case will remain unsolved.

I might have answered somewhere in 14 pages, but I don't think Tom Dixon (Gary Simmons' possible/probable killer) will be found. Just disappeared off the face of the Earth 46 years ago.
Amelia Earhart, Audrey Moate, Joan Gay Croft and the French pilots also come to mind.

Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan

I still hold out hope on this one. I just hope it isn't TIGHAR that solves it.

Here’s one: what is the **** they’re putting on Farina’s face that makes him look orange? Is it the same **** Trump uses? Who told them that looks good on tv?

Tense is wrong.. Farina's been dead nearly 7 years now. So, pretty sure they're not actively putting anything on him.

He did the UM shots nearly 10 years ago.. And, if I'm not mistaken, and I may be.. He was a southwestern guy.. Always out in the sun.. That may have been.. Just 'natural weathering'.

There was talk that Dennis Rodman's boat was the culprit, not necessarily him behind the wheel though but they were cleared I guess.

Philip Fraser

The bank robbers who dug the tunnels in LA. What I always found interesting about this case is the fingerprint. Whoever that fingerprint belonged to managed to never get arrested. I also thought it was strange they thought only two men working closely together pulled it off.

What was more intriguing is the praise law enforcement was giving the robber son national television. "They were excellent" "Craftsmanship was impressive". The statute of limitations has been up and this is a crime that will never be solved. Interesting enough I always wondered if they kept track of serial numbers to see if the money ended up in rotation.

This segment was interesting because everything was from the point of view of law enforcement because there were no witnesses and no persons of interest. Case was interesting but never should have been a UM segment.

The bank robbers who dug the tunnels in LA. What I always found interesting about this case is the fingerprint. Whoever that fingerprint belonged to managed to never get arrested. I also thought it was strange they thought only two men working closely together pulled it off.

What was more intriguing is the praise law enforcement was giving the robber son national television. "They were excellent" "Craftsmanship was impressive". The statute of limitations has been up and this is a crime that will never be solved. Interesting enough I always wondered if they kept track of serial numbers to see if the money ended up in rotation.

This segment was interesting because everything was from the point of view of law enforcement because there were no witnesses and no persons of interest. Case was interesting but never should have been a UM segment.

Credit where it's due, you know.

The bank robbers who dug the tunnels in LA. What I always found interesting about this case is the fingerprint. Whoever that fingerprint belonged to managed to never get arrested. I also thought it was strange they thought only two men working closely together pulled it off.

What was more intriguing is the praise law enforcement was giving the robber son national television. "They were excellent" "Craftsmanship was impressive". The statute of limitations has been up and this is a crime that will never be solved. Interesting enough I always wondered if they kept track of serial numbers to see if the money ended up in rotation.

This segment was interesting because everything was from the point of view of law enforcement because there were no witnesses and no persons of interest. Case was interesting but never should have been a UM segment.
When the movie "Heat" came out in 1995 I immediately thought of this case. Especially when the Al Pacino character talks about how good the heist crew was in their actions.

When the movie "Heat" came out in 1995 I immediately thought of this case. Especially when the Al Pacino character talks about how good the heist crew was in their actions.

I started this movie years ago and never finished it. You are going to make me revisit it.

The bank robbers who dug the tunnels in LA. What I always found interesting about this case is the fingerprint. Whoever that fingerprint belonged to managed to never get arrested. I also thought it was strange they thought only two men working closely together pulled it off.

What was more intriguing is the praise law enforcement was giving the robber son national television. "They were excellent" "Craftsmanship was impressive". The statute of limitations has been up and this is a crime that will never be solved. Interesting enough I always wondered if they kept track of serial numbers to see if the money ended up in rotation.

This segment was interesting because everything was from the point of view of law enforcement because there were no witnesses and no persons of interest. Case was interesting but never should have been a UM segment.

You know what's amazing?? That NOBODY else in America(or anywhere else) has done a similar robbery by tunneling UNDERNEATH a bank! You guys haven't heard of any other cases right?

Remember they tunneled under ANOTHER back but somehow an alarm got tripped and all they got was $50K. They said they had a drill bit in place under yet ANOTHER bank but by then the cops discovered their tunnels!

This has to be one of the top 5 most unbelievable cases in UM history! As far as robberies go it must be #1!

You know what's amazing?? That NOBODY else in America(or anywhere else) has done a similar robbery by tunneling UNDERNEATH a bank! You guys haven't heard of any other cases right?

Remember they tunneled under ANOTHER back but somehow an alarm got tripped and all they got was $50K. They said they had a drill bit in place under yet ANOTHER bank but by then the cops discovered their tunnels!

This has to be one of the top 5 most unbelievable cases in UM history! As far as robberies go it must be #1!

Somebody tried it last year but didn't finish the tunnel:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna964696

That Obia-man person that killed the 5 people with Cyanide in St Croix, Virgin Islands between 1984-1988. Authorities are literally trying to find a transient phantom with no real description whatsoever, just a vague clue that he speaks with a heavy French-West Indies accent. There's certainly no photos of him to go on.

That Obia-man person that killed the 5 people with Cyanide in St Croix, Virgin Islands between 1984-1988. Authorities are literally trying to find a transient phantom with no real description whatsoever, just a vague clue that he speaks with a heavy French-West Indies accent. There's certainly no photos of him to go on.

I feel the same way. The guy seemed to take great care to keep the transactions secret and making his victims do so as well before having them drink the poison (sending relatives out of the room when on the phone with him, one of the victims not telling his wife about the bank withdrawals, etc.). Short of the guy turning himself in or confiding in someone else who could tell, it would be like searching for a needle in a haystack.

Brad Bishop

I dont see them ever finding the Interstate 70 Killer.

It's hard to say. I had pretty much resigned myself to thinking that Lisa Ziegert's killer would never be found and yet here we are. Also, it's been pretty well established now through DNA that it was Rudolf Hess in Spandau prison and that's one I never thought we'd have a definitive answer for

Some of these cases take up to several decades to be solved. It's been interesting going through old episodes of UM and finding cases from sometimes the early 1980s only being solved in the 2010s (I've seen this on other crime shows too).

That having been said...I think the following will probably be very hard to solve
Patsy Wright
Kurt Sova
The disappearance of Patricia Meehan
Elizabeth Campbell
Antoinette Cayedito

I think the Sarah Joe boat disappearance case is probably pretty much solved but I'd like to hear from the Chinese fishermen about how and when they came across the boat and Scott Moorman's remains. Of course this likely won't happen because (1) they were most likely illegally fishing and (2) I doubt they've heard about all the controversy in whichever part of the world they came from. It was a very nice gesture on their part to try and give him a respectful burial of some sort

I doubt the Amelia Earhart/Fred Noonan case or the fate of those pilots that allegedly disappeared around the Bermuda Triangle will be discovered anytime soon. I'd really like to know what happened in both

I dont see them ever finding the Interstate 70 Killer.

I'm in the same state as some of those killings & it's MIND BOGGLING they still don't even have a suspect after 30 YEARS or so!!

It's hard to say. I had pretty much resigned myself to thinking that Lisa Ziegert's killer would never be found and yet here we are.

I said long ago on this very forum that I didn't think that case would ever get solved. And that killed me inside because my heart absolutely broke for Lisa's family. Then not only was her killer captured, he changed his plea to guilty and the family was spared a gut wrenching trial.

This past decade has seen a handful of cold cases solved. From Wendy Camp to Joyce McLain to the Baskin kids. Patricia Carlton being located felt like it came completely out of left field. It took me forever to pick my mouth up off the floor when the killer of Jay Cook and Tanya Van Cuylenborg was not only identified but arrested. And the killer of Mikayla Garecht was just recently arrested.

Seeing these cases solved has given me renewed hope for others that seem like long shots. The hope is that the people responsible are convicted while the family members of victims are still alive to see it.

This past decade has seen a handful of cold cases solved. From Wendy Camp to Joyce McLain to the Baskin kids. Patricia Carlton being located felt like it came completely out of left field. It took me forever to pick my mouth up off the floor when the killer of Jay Cook and Tanya Van Cuylenborg was not only identified but arrested. And the killer of Mikayla Garecht was just recently arrested.



I think my jaw hit the ground when I read online they'd arrested the Original Night Stalker. I honestly didn't think they'd ever get the thing.

I think my jaw hit the ground when I read online they'd arrested the Original Night Stalker. I honestly didn't think they'd ever get the thing.

Same. I woke up to that news alert and was like, “No WAY!!”

It’s truly amazing.

At this point the only ones that will be solved will be because of DNA. Maybe a deathbed confession but I doubt that. Sad but too much time has passed.

You guys heard of the Tammy Zywicki case? After all these years it could be tough.

Athletic, upbeat and a talented amateur photographer, Tammy, 21, vanished on Aug. 23, 1992, after her car broke down on I-80 in Illinois, near LaSalle. Prior to her disappearance, she had dropped her brother off at Northwestern University in Evanston and was heading to Grinnell College in Iowa.

On Sept. 1, her body was found 500 miles south, wrapped in a blanket, on the side of a Missouri interstate.

https://people.com/crime/killing-tammy-zywicki-featured-people-magazine-investigates/

I dont see them ever finding the Interstate 70 Killer.

I sometimes wonder when re watching that segment if they are really sure it was the same guy in all those killings?

I sometimes wonder when re watching that segment if they are really sure it was the same guy in all those killings?

But it was the same MO in all the killings right?

Some that come to mind are:

Ralph Probst- this was the "perfect crime" There really weren't any clues left that would link it to anyone. Plus it was well over 50 years ago, so its a good chance whoever did it is dead by now

DB Cooper- I think it's possible that one day his identity may be discovered but he will never be found. I think he died minutes after he jumped out of that plane. If he is still alive, he is probably almost 100 years old so what would be the point in prosecuting him anyway?

Ted Loseff- I believe he was murdered and his wife arranged it but she died before they really started investigating his case as a homicide so anything she knew went with her to her grave.

The boy in the box- that will remain unsolved forever.

Adam Hecht- I think this guy "Tony" either killed him or knows who did but I don't see this one ever being solved.

The boy in the box- that will remain unsolved forever.
.

They're working on this one using genetic genealogy as we speak. I'm guessing he will at least be getting his identity back very shortly.

Sadly Scott Johnson and friend

They're working on this one using genetic genealogy as we speak. I'm guessing he will at least be getting his identity back very shortly.

They got DNA from him in 1998. It's 2021.

DNA is not, necessarily, the silver bullet. Let's say his parents never had any other children... They were immigrants and the rest of the family remained in whatever the home country was.. The odds of a GEDMatch style solution is next to nil. And I presume that's what they're searching for now because I can't imagine they haven't tried running a familial through CODIS already.

I'd be very surprised if the demonic worshipper Ann Sigmin is ever caught and charged over her part in the 1986 shooting of her (possibly abusive) ex-husband. This was featured in one of the very early episodes. The composite sketches of how she "might" appear now look like the were drawn by a pre-schooler.

The I40 hit and run murder. I don't see that ever getting solved, at this point. It's been over 30 years, and there was no physical evidence to go off, just the description of the car and the driver. Short of the guy (or maybe the woman he was with) coming forward (and if neither has, by now, I'd say it's unlikely they ever will), there's no way it'll ever be solved.

The I40 hit and run murder. I don't see that ever getting solved, at this point. It's been over 30 years, and there was no physical evidence to go off, just the description of the car and the driver. Short of the guy (or maybe the woman he was with) coming forward (and if neither has, by now, I'd say it's unlikely they ever will), there's no way it'll ever be solved.

true, there were a lot of eye witness accounts as well. it would have been nice if someone got a plate number. I don't recall if anyone did?

IH 40 had quite a few UMs that are still unsolved. Rhonda Hinson took the exit off of IH 40. There was the motorcycle rider that was hit by a truck driver in Arkansas. Devin Williams was driving on IH 40 when he left his route and drove his truck into the Tonto National Forest and disappeared. I feel like I am missing a couple of others. Of corse the show made a lot of segments showing interstate and highway crimes.

true, there were a lot of eye witness accounts as well. it would have been nice if someone got a plate number. I don't recall if anyone did?

IH 40 had quite a few UMs that are still unsolved. Rhonda Hinson took the exit off of IH 40. There was the motorcycle rider that was hit by a truck driver in Arkansas. Devin Williams was driving on IH 40 when he left his route and drove his truck into the Tonto National Forest and disappeared. I feel like I am missing a couple of others. Of corse the show made a lot of segments showing interstate and highway crimes.

According to Trace Evidence Podcast's episode on this (I watched/listened last night, so that's why I thought of that case), police actually talked with one or two potential suspects, but they didn't have enough to actually bring charges. One guy was a serial criminal with multiple assault charges who was in the area at the time, and had borrowed his father's light blue Monte Carlo that day. But they didn't have enough to go off to actually bring any charges, apparently.

I would also say the motorcycle rider and Devin Williams cases are good candidates for other cases that'll never be solved, sadly...

Diane Shawcroft & Jennifer Lueth.

I'm in the same state as some of those killings & it's MIND BOGGLING they still don't even have a suspect after 30 YEARS or so!!

My first question about that one is: Is there even an "I-70 killer" to find? If I recall correctly that was a case where an investigative journalist posited that there was a serial killer working this corridor, but hard evidence to definitively say there was one and only one killer committing these acts was somewhat thin.