All I can say is WOW! I was always under the impression that TMTMS was #1 for at Least a season. Heck, it wasn't even a top 5 hit! The closest it got was 7th place, which is good, but I am shocked by this news.

http://sharetv.org/images/guide/287156.jpg

Yeah, I'm shocked it never made the Top 5, even. But it did have a good, long run and still holds up today, for the most part. :cool: :D

Well it did air on Saturday night the spot in the schedule where TV shows go to die. So even getting into the top 10 was an incredible achievement!

Yeah, I'm shocked it never made the Top 5, even. But it did have a good, long run and still holds up today, for the most part. :cool: :D


Oh I agree 100%, I guess I was under the impression that this was for the most part a top 5 show and it never was. It makes me wonder what was TMTMS main competition?

Well it did air on Saturday night the spot in the schedule where TV shows go to die. So even getting into the top 10 was an incredible achievement!


That is true, but if I am not mistaken, a lot of classic shows aired on the dreaded Saturday night time slot.

All I can say is WOW! I was always under the impression that TMTMS was #1 for at Least a season. Heck, it wasn't even a top 5 hit! The closest it got was 7th place, which is good, but I am shocked by this news.

http://sharetv.org/images/guide/287156.jpg


Brian you know Norman Lear Sitcoms RULED in the 70's era. MTM could not compete with any of the shows below

All in the Family
Maude
Sanford and Son
Good Times
Jeffersons
One Day at a Time


That was too much competition-lol

That is true, but if I am not mistaken, a lot of classic shows aired on the dreaded Saturday night time slot.
AITF aired on Saturday and was #1 in the nation at that time. Saturdays didn't really start to lose some of that luster until after The Golden Girls went off the air in 1992. After that Dr. Quinn and Walker Texas Ranger continued to be top 20 hits but the rest of the shows only had mediocre ratings.

Brian you know Norman Lear Sitcoms RULED in the 70's era. MTM could not compete with any of the shows below

All in the Family
Maude
Sanford and Son
Good Times
Jeffersons
One Day at a Time


That was too much competition-lol

That is true Sol, but I was always under the impression that "Mary" was a top 5 hit. Most of those shows were on CBS anyway, so technically they weren't competing against them.

That is true Sol, but I was always under the impression that "Mary" was a top 5 hit. Most of those shows were on CBS anyway, so technically they weren't competing against them.

Well from my research it appears that MTM went up against these shows

NBC saturday Movie
Most Deadly Game-ABC
ABC Movie of the Weekend
Streets of San Francisco-ABC
ABC Suspense Movie
Kung Fu-ABC
SWAT-ABC
Starsky and Hutch-ABC


But MTM finished in the Top Ten three times

71-72-#10
72-73-#7
73-74-#9
74-75-#11

The only show that it looked like MTM couldn't compete with was Starsky and Hutch in the 75-76 season because of the ratings below

S&H-#16
MTM-#19

The only show that it looked like MTM couldn't compete with was Starsky and Hutch in the 75-76 season because of the ratings below

S&H-#16
MTM-#19

I think by the time Starsky & Hutch came around, MTM was losing steam. I could be wrong though.

I think by the time Starsky & Hutch came around, MTM was losing steam. I could be wrong though.
75-76 was TMTMS second last season. That means Rhoda and Phyllis were both gone. So I would say they were losing steam.

In 75-76, not only were both Rhoda & Phyllis gone, leaving a void in the female character department, that was also the year Mary moved into a new apartment and had that awful perm. I believe it was year 6 were Mary had the awful hairdo which really aged her.

A question here - What do you think was the reason for the ratings jump between Season 1 and 2? Although I enjoy MTM's earlier years, I think the ratings jump may have had to do with AITF also being on Saturday nights. Remember, AITF premiered a few months after MTM.

I am surprised it was never in the top 5, but still #7 is nothing to sneeze at. Also, the field was crowded with many other fine shows.

I agree with that -- there were so many good shows coming out of the 3 major networks during those years.

The Mary Tyler Moore Show was No. 1 in my ratings book, and still is!

The Mary Tyler Moore Show was No. 1 in my ratings book, and still is!

I too am a lot fonder of it than the ratings it garnered - in many respects it's #1 in my book too. (Who can turn the world on with her smile? - Mary!!! (everyday's a holiday with Mary - OH!! - that's a different Mary but it applies to our lovely Ms. Richards too! - ALSO..."practically perfect in every way!")

Ratings don't tell the whole story. There have been some fantastic shows over the years that didn't get good ratings. Still, TMTMS spent several years in the top 10, and that's pretty good, especially for a Saturday night show. And one place it always scored well, every season it was on the air, was at the Emmy Awards. The year it got the most wins was the fifth season (6 wins); the year it got the most nominations was the seventh season (12 nominations). Altogether, it received 29 wins out of 65 nominations. Here's how it breaks down:

First Season: 4 wins out of 8 nominations. It won for Best Director in a Comedy (Sandrich), Best Supporting Actress in a Comedy (Harper), Best Supporting Actor in a Comedy (Asner) and Outstanding Writing in a Comedy (Brooks and Burns).

Second Season: 2 wins out of 8 nominations. It won for Best Supporting Actress in a Comedy (Harper) and Best Supporting Actor in a Comedy (Asner).

Third Season: 4 wins out of 8 nominations. It won for Best Lead Actress in a Comedy (Moore), Best Director in a Comedy (Sandrich), Best Supporting Actress in a Comedy (Harper), Best Supporting Actor in a Comedy (Knight).

Fourth Season: 5 wins out of 10 nominations. It won for Actress of the Year in a Series (Moore) Best Lead Actress in a Comedy (Moore), Supporting Actress in a Comedy (Leachman), Best Writer in a Comedy (Silverman), Writer of the Year in a Series (Silverman).

Fifth Season: 6 wins out of 9 nominations. It won for Outstanding Comedy Series; Outstanding Continuing Performance by a Supporting Actor in a Comedy (Asner); Outstanding Continuing Performance by Supporting Actress in a Comedy (White), Outstanding Film Editing in a Comedy, Single Episode (Douglas Hines); Outstanding Single Performance by Supporting Actress (Leachman); Outstanding Writing in a Comedy Series (Weinberger, Daniels).

Sixth Season: 5 wins out of 10 nominations. It won for Outstanding Comedy Series; Outstanding Continuing Performance by a Supporting Actor in a Comedy (Knight); Outstanding Continuing Performance by Supporting Actress in a Comedy (White), Outstanding Lead Actress in a Comedy (Moore); Outstanding Writing in a Comedy Series (Lloyd).

Seventh Season: 3 wins out of 12 nominations. It won for Outstanding Comedy Series; Outstanding Film Editing in a Comedy Series (Douglas Hines); Outstanding Writing in a Comedy Series (Burns, Brooks, Weinberger, Daniels, Lloyd, Ellison)

About the season-end ratings for the 1972-73 season, I could have swapped the #7 ranking and 23.6 average rating that The Mary Tyler Moore Show had during that season with the #5 rank (and 24.2 average rating) of Bridget Loves Bernie (which only ran for one season).

Plus, I think it is hard to tell if The MTM Show would have ranked #1 in the Nielsen Ratings if All in the Family had aired on ABC or NBC, or had never aired at all. I would have saw The MTM Show succeed Here's Lucy as CBS's flagship sitcom in either scenario, then it probably would have been a top-five show.

I think there's too much focus on ratings, or, in music, chart position.

Many other great TV shows weren't big ratings winners, or in the Top 10.

-My Three Sons. I think it hit thea Top 10 one season in its (overly long) 12-year run.

-Leave It To Beaver. One of the greatest sitcoms ever. Look how well it's held up over the decades and how many times it's run.
Yet... I don't think it ever made the Top 20.

-Twilight Zone. Considered one of the greatest sci-fi (and overall TV) series ever.
The show was often a ratings "loser" and often faced cancellation.
To save costs, CBS ordered the producers to shoot 6 of the episodes in VIDEOTAPE, which lowered the production quality.

Some well-loved songs which never topped the charts:
-Brown-Eyed Girl. The Van Morrison song from 1966 peaked @ No. 10, hardly the No. 1 it sounds like when played on oldies radio.

-God Only Knows. The Brian Wilson/Beach Boys masterpiece only hit No. 39 on the charts (it was the flip side of Wouldn't It Be Nice from 1966).
From charts I've seen online, the song hit No 2 in Pittsburgh and in other areas, but not as high nationally.
Paul McCartney called it "the most beautiful song ever."

Here's insight on how My Three Sons fared in ratings.
Yet, the show was successful enough to run for 12 seasons !!!

It likely drew a loyal and sizeable audience.


http://www.metv.com/lists/13-fascinating-facts-about-my-three-sons
Despite its historic run, the sitcom never cracked the Top 10.

Despite its popularity, My Three Sons interestingly never ranked in the top 10. The closest it came was in season two, when it hit No. 11 on the Nielsen charts.

The show was so critically acclaimed and well remembered that is probably seemed or felt like it was a #1 hit.

It is hard to believe, though, but again, this is an argument for the saying "perception is reality," because I'm sure some people will swear it was a #1 show.

The show was so critically acclaimed and well remembered that is probably seemed or felt like it was a #1 hit.

It is hard to believe, though, but again, this is an argument for the saying "perception is reality," because I'm sure some people will swear it was a #1 show.
Positions on ratings charts -- on Billboard Hot 100 charts -- don't really tell the whole story.

Take Louie, Louie - that great 1960s party-rocker by The Kingsmen.
The song, which is always on party rock CD compilations and heard at parties as much as Wooly Bully (No. 2, 1965), sure sounds like a No. 1 hit.

Guess what position Louie, Louie (https://youtu.be/_0rFYNSWMwk) charted?

NO. 2.....

https://bestclassicbands.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Kingsmen-Louie-Louie.jpg

Louie, Louie remained blocked from the Top Spot in December of 1963 because another song ....
... Dominque by The Singing Nun, which stayed at No.1 for FIVE WEEKS !!

Now, I wager that few remember The Singing Nun. (https://youtu.be/EO7cD6qmydo)
You rarely, if ever, hear that song on oldies radio, even when oldies FMs played real oldies... i.e. from 1950s and 1960s.

Louie, Louie did hit No. 1 on one chart... The Cashbox charts.

As for Wooly Bully:
It became a worldwide success, selling three million copies and reaching No. 2 on the American Hot 100 chart on June 5–12, 1965, kept off the top by The Beach Boys' "Help Me, Rhonda"[3] and The Supremes' "Back in My Arms Again".[4]

Well from my research it appears that MTM went up against these shows

NBC saturday Movie
Most Deadly Game-ABC
ABC Movie of the Weekend
Streets of San Francisco-ABC
ABC Suspense Movie
Kung Fu-ABC
SWAT-ABC
Starsky and Hutch-ABC

Today, only 2 of those shows occasionally appear in syndication. And they're not big winners.

Brian you know Norman Lear Sitcoms RULED in the 70's era. MTM could not compete with any of the shows below

All in the Family
Maude
Sanford and Son
Good Times
Jeffersons
One Day at a Time


That was too much competition-lol
Only one or 2 of those appears in syndication today.... and isn't shown that much at that. Those shows are often one the lesser channels.
Not as much as MTM, which is known worldwide.

The others were good shows, but nothing like MTM.
AITF was cursed with too much politics... hence it's highly dated.

One thing Bob Newhart said was his 1970s show (and 80s one) wasn't going to do President Ford jokes. He was wise not dating it that way.

Today, only 2 of those shows occasionally appear in syndication. And they're not big winners.


Only one or 2 of those appears in syndication today.... and isn't shown that much at that. Those shows are often one the lesser channels.
Not as much as MTM, which is known worldwide.

The others were good shows, but nothing like MTM.
AITF was cursed with too much politics... hence it's highly dated.

One thing Bob Newhart said was his 1970s show (and 80s one) wasn't going to do President Ford jokes. He was wise not dating it that way.

All of those Norman Lear shows are in syndication in 2021

No one thought of MTM like it was a #1 show. All in the Family was such a phenomenon that there was no room for discussion. At its peak, its audience was 20% bigger then the #2 show.

Oil shortages caused gasoline prices to go up in the early 1970s, so for a few years people drove a lot less. So for a while Saturday was a TV night.

No one thought of MTM like it was a #1 show. All in the Family was such a phenomenon that there was no room for discussion. At its peak, its audience was 20% bigger then the #2 show.

Oil shortages caused gasoline prices to go up in the early 1970s, so for a few years people drove a lot less. So for a while Saturday was a TV night.

And with a lineup like that, it was probably worth staying home for.

I remember my Dad saying that back in the 1950s, he and my Mom wouldn't go out on a Saturday night until they'd seen Jackie Gleason.

All I can say is WOW! I was always under the impression that TMTMS was #1 for at Least a season. Heck, it wasn't even a top 5 hit! The closest it got was 7th place, which is good, but I am shocked by this news.

I bet you'll also be surprised that The Carol Burnett Show never even made it into the Top-10 in the annual Nielsen Ratings, either. it's highest ranking? #13 (with a 22.1 rating) during its third season in 1969-70. Other comedy-variety shows like The Ed Sullivan Show, The Red Skelton Show, and The Flip Wilson Show got at high as #2, while Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In did, in fact, reach #1.

Rowan and Martin broke a lot of ground that other shows get credit for, and was a true phenomenon.