I just watched this segment for the first time tonight and found it to be possibly one of the most creepy/disturbing UM stories I've ever seen. Obviously, I think Ulysses Roberson was a total scumbag for what he did to those countless women and children. He deserves the worst of the worst. But after watching this particualr segment, I hold a lot of contempt for Judy Olive. I believe she was guilty of child neglect and putting her child in danger.

First off, the woman was raped by a man she thought to be a friend. Instead of getting away from him and telling the police, she joins his cult. After she gets involved with the guy, her family gets her out of it, gets her deprogrammed, and take her and her future son in. This should have been the third out in the bottom of the 9th, and the ballgame should've been over. But no. She decides to go back to this man who raped her and put her son in his care. How do you, as a mother, expose your child to this monster when you already know what he's capable of? THEN, after he abuses the child and hangs him by his ankles, she had the opportunity to take the kid and run but she left him with his father. Then, it was too late. Push came to shove and he kidnapped the child, and he was never seen again.

She went on UM professing her guilt and pain, but I find it hard to feel sorry for this woman. You wait till NOW to acknowledge what a bastard Ulysses is? Where were you when YOU had control of your child and could've kept him away from this crazy man? She kept letting him go back with this abusive rapist, so--sorry to say it--she has to take partial blame for what happened to him.

Sorry for venting. But this segment just made me angry as hell. Putting your child in such a dangerous environment is almost as bad as hurting him with your own hands.

I put more than partial blame on her. She and her son were in a bizarre situtation. Gah! Just look at who the father of her child was! IMO, she, as the mother, had even a greater responsibility of providing a safe environment for her helpless child. She even stated that she had "great concern" for her son being in the care of his father and the harem while she was at work, but since she detected no signs of "danger" she wasn't worried. WHAT? The first sign of danger was when he monitered her cycle, then drugged, and raped her with the intent to conceive a child against her will!

That poor little boy's safety was entirely in his mother's hands, but IMO, a stranger off the street would have done a better job protecting him. I have no sympathy for these kinds of women.

Excluded from my judgemental rant would be a woman like Jaycee Dugard. She was abducted as a child and her daughters were conceived through pedophile rape. She didn't have the maturity or means to protect her kids any better than she did, and she seemed to be doing a pretty darn good job, especially considering the circumstances. (Same with the poor woman who's father held her in a dungeon in austria for decades. She even homeschooled her incest-conceived kids, the ones that evil father of hers let her keep anyway, and was a very good mother to them.)

But with this woman, Judy Whatersface, she had all kinds of support systems in place and still offered her child up as a sacrifice. It's beyond deplorable.

Thanks, Tracy. I'm glad someone else shares my sentiments on this. Possibly the biggest WTF case in the history of UM...

Its very hard to come out of an abusive relationship - much less one with a cult leader. Its easy to be critical of someone as an outsider, much more difficult when you've experienced an abusive relationship first hand. The women (and men) who are in such relationships need mental help. Would a sane person have allowed such things to happen to her child? Most likely not. Was Judy Olive sane? Probably not.

Its so easy to say "She should have done this" or "She should have done that", but when you're actually in such a relationship, finding your way back to reality is very difficult.

Do I think what she did was right? Definitely not. However, I feel sorry for her and hope that she got the help she needed to change the way she viewed herself and to become a healthier individual.

Its very hard to come out of an abusive relationship - much less one with a cult leader. Its easy to be critical of someone as an outsider, much more difficult when you've experienced an abusive relationship first hand. The women (and men) who are in such relationships need mental help. Would a sane person have allowed such things to happen to her child? Most likely not. Was Judy Olive sane? Probably not.

Its so easy to say "She should have done this" or "She should have done that", but when you're actually in such a relationship, finding your way back to reality is very difficult.

Do I think what she did was right? Definitely not. However, I feel sorry for her and hope that she got the help she needed to change the way she viewed herself and to become a healthier individual.
Idyla, I understand your point, but the fact is that for this particular case you have it backwards. She didn't need any more help getting out of the relationship--she was ALREADY out of the relationship. She CHOSE to go BACK to this monster and put the helpless child in his care, even though she knew of what he was capable. I'm sorry, but this is a totally inexcusable premise here.

You can't kill your parents and then beg the court for mercy because you're an orphan...

Idyla, I understand your point, but the fact is that for this particular case you have it backwards. She didn't need any more help getting out of the relationship--she was ALREADY out of the relationship. She CHOSE to go BACK to this monster and put the helpless child in his care, even though she knew of what he was capable. I'm sorry, but this is a totally inexcusable premise here.

You can't kill your parents and then beg the court for mercy because you're an orphan...

Being physically out of a relationship is far different from being mentally out of it. How long does it take anyone to put a broken relationship behind them? Add to that being battered and brainwashed. Its pretty classic for abused women to go back to their exes...repeatedly. Being in an abusive relationship isn't much different from being brainwashed. And the worst part is, she's still susceptible to being in the same sort of relationship again. A crazy relationship like that isn't quite so cut and dry.

To add in a few ridiculous analogies - Its like telling a clinically depressed person to get over it. Its like telling a war vet who has PTSD to just put it all behind themselves and forget it.

Its very easy to be critical of people and their decisions when you haven't been in their shoes.

I thought the mother's name was Rosemary, anyway.

IMO, Judy isn't like Dottie Caylor, Annette Burnside, Christie Nichol, and other victims like them. Those ladies seemed to be trapped in bad marriages with abusive husbands. For whatever reason, they would often go back to the abuser, even after sometimes managing to break away for a period of time. Usually, they didn't have anyone outside the marriage to turn to for help.

Judy's case is nothing like that. She had a supportive family and professional help. She was working at a hospital when a couple came in to give birth to their baby. They told Judy that the man was not the father of the baby, but that he was the brother of the woman giving birth.

They all quickly became friends. When they had Judy over to visit (for the first time, I think) they gave her a 3 page questionnaire to fill out that included the details of her monthly cycle. I've never had anyone, other than my doctor, request paperwork regarding my personal health information. Friends certainly don't do that. Why did she comply? Was she intimidated? Did she think they were going to play some kind of game using that info? Maybe a drinking game? Did she think it was an "application for friendship"? I dunno, but it should have been a huge warning sign to her that something was dangerously wrong with those people.

After she gave them all her personal info, they did not invite her over again until the date they calculated that she would be fertile. She claims that they drugged her drink. The guy told her that their psychic centers were about to become one, then he raped her.

As he planned, she became pregnant. Her family got her away from this guy long before the baby was born. She went through some kind of deprogramming. It was later, when the child was about toddler age that she went back. Ulysses (was that his name?) demanded that she go back to work and hand her check and child over to him and his wives, which she did.

She barely knew this man when he raped her. She willingly let her rapist and his friends have unsupervised custody of the child who was a product of that rape. The child was likely murdered.

I've known of women who've kept babies that resulted from a rape. None of them let the biological "father" (ugh, what do you even call that kind of creature!?) keep the child or have any kind of custody arrangement. Although, I have read about one case where the rapist went to court to force visitation with the child. But that's not what happened here.

IMO, this was somewhere between a date rape and a stranger rape. It was never a domestic violence case. He chose her specificially to be his victim but instead of overpowering her and immediately attacking her, he schemed and planned, and pretended to be harmless. She fell for it and quickly divulged when she would next be ovulating, which was exactly what he wanted. Then he raped her.

IMO, Judy isn't like Dottie Caylor, Annette Burnside, Christie Nichol, and other victims like them. Those ladies seemed to be trapped in bad marriages with abusive husbands. For whatever reason, they would often go back to the abuser, even after sometimes managing to break away for a period of time. Usually, they didn't have anyone outside the marriage to turn to for help.

Judy's case is nothing like that. She had a supportive family and professional help. She was working at a hospital when a couple came in to give birth to their baby. They told Judy that the man was not the father of the baby, but that he was the brother of the woman giving birth.

They all quickly became friends. When they had Judy over to visit (for the first time, I think) they gave her a 3 page questionnaire to fill out that included the details of her monthly cycle. I've never had anyone, other than my doctor, request paperwork regarding my personal health information. Friends certainly don't do that. Why did she comply? Was she intimidated? Did she think they were going to play some kind of game using that info? Maybe a drinking game? Did she think it was an "application for friendship"? I dunno, but it should have been a huge warning sign to her that something was dangerously wrong with those people.

After she gave them all her personal info, they did not invite her over again until the date they calculated that she would be fertile. She claims that they drugged her drink. The guy told her that their psychic centers were about to become one, then he raped her.

As he planned, she became pregnant. Her family got her away from this guy long before the baby was born. She went through some kind of deprogramming. It was later, when the child was about toddler age that she went back. Ulysses (was that his name?) demanded that she go back to work and hand her check and child over to him and his wives, which she did.

She barely knew this man when he raped her. She willingly let her rapist and his friends have unsupervised custody of the child who was a product of that rape. The child was likely murdered.

I've known of women who've kept babies that resulted from a rape. None of them let the biological "father" (ugh, what do you even call that kind of creature!?) keep the child or have any kind of custody arrangement. Although, I have read about one case where the rapist went to court to force visitation with the child. But that's not what happened here.

IMO, this was somewhere between a date rape and a stranger rape. It was never a domestic violence case. He chose her specificially to be his victim but instead of overpowering her and immediately attacking her, he schemed and planned, and pretended to be harmless. She fell for it and quickly divulged when she would next be ovulating, which was exactly what he wanted. Then he raped her.

THanks for the information on this case. It grossed me out the first time and now that I am older and I have two kids of my own......YUCK is the only word for it.

He finds out wehn she is ovulating, slips her a drink with somrthing in it to half knock her out, massages her, then flips her over and impregnantes her. So gross!!

She was a gorwn woman with a nursing degree - able to support herself - yet she kept going back to this awful man and his harem of women. I wonder if the boy is still alive and what Judy OIive is up to these days?

I'm the age Judy was when she first got drawn into Ulysses' world. Firstly, I would never give out my menstrual cycle, even if I thought it would get me a reading. Secondly, if after giving such information I was told suspiciously to come back in exactly a certain amount of time, I would catch on. Judy in the interview seems a little embarrassed about them having sex that was unplanned, but doesn't seem upset about the fact that he took advantage of her (probably because she loved her son, but still, wouldn't you be upset that someone drugged you and had sex with you?). And she goes back to him after the deprogramming, even with his odd behavior of renaming her son and all that. She wasn't even in an actual relationship with the man long enough to be drawn into the circle of abuse when it's difficult to leave the abuser- and didn't the "cult" of wives ruffle her at all? (To be fair, she could have said so and that portion of the interview was excised). I don't understand how she could have been drawn in, as I agree with other posters that this wasn't like a domestic marriage; she'd already been abused and barely knew the man.
In short, I feel bad for Judy for the fact that she lost her son and has to deal with the fact that she could have saved him everyday. However, she is to blame for a great deal of what happened here.

I'm the age Judy was when she first got drawn into Ulysses' world. Firstly, I would never give out my menstrual cycle, even if I thought it would get me a reading. Secondly, if after giving such information I was told suspiciously to come back in exactly a certain amount of time, I would catch on. Judy in the interview seems a little embarrassed about them having sex that was unplanned, but doesn't seem upset about the fact that he took advantage of her (probably because she loved her son, but still, wouldn't you be upset that someone drugged you and had sex with you?). And she goes back to him after the deprogramming, even with his odd behavior of renaming her son and all that. She wasn't even in an actual relationship with the man long enough to be drawn into the circle of abuse when it's difficult to leave the abuser- and didn't the "cult" of wives ruffle her at all? (To be fair, she could have said so and that portion of the interview was excised). I don't understand how she could have been drawn in, as I agree with other posters that this wasn't like a domestic marriage; she'd already been abused and barely knew the man.
In short, I feel bad for Judy for the fact that she lost her son and has to deal with the fact that she could have saved him everyday. However, she is to blame for a great deal of what happened here.

I so agree with you. What puzzles me is Judy was an educated person who seemed pretty sensible! But then...the whole giving out my cycle thing was just odd. Two strangers invite you back EXACTLY 22 days later then give you questionable drinks? Yikes.

I watched the episode on YouTube and it grossed me out even more. She dated raped, for sure. It was never implied that she gave consent - I think she might have even said she could not say no or does not remember saying yes.

Sadly, so many men (and women) can spot a victim-ish person from a mile away and sadly, this was the result. Anybody know what Judy Olive is up to today??

Considering this guy had his eye on her and intentionally planned to get her pregnant without her consent, it's definitely rape. But what gets me is she didn't question why he and the other woman wanted such intimate knowledge of her menstrual cycle. That's a HUGE red flag right there.

Yes, many women can't just get up and leave a violent relationship---I've seen it firsthand. Judy's case was different. She had support and she was able to mentally break with him. It made no sense for her to go back. You have to wonder if there were other underlying factors. Maybe she thought having the father around was better than no father at all. Maybe she did have some love for him. Maybe there was some self-esteem issues. Unfortunately, the end result is that a child is gone and would still be here if his mother hadn't been in such a state of denial over dad's mental well-being and lifestyle.

Judy was young, very naiive, smitten, and possibly overly optimistic about her situation.

I agree, that for most of us it is pretty easy to see what was going on. I remember the first time I saw this and the questionairre came up and I thought, "WTF, woman? Why would you give out that info?"

The problem is when you are in the middle of the mess, you don't always see things as clearly. She was also drugged when they had sex and who knows what that did to her state of mind at the time. Once she found out she was pregnant, she may have been so overwhelmed about being a mom that she stopped thinking rationally.

Obviously only later did she finally put 2 and 2 together and realize the horror her son was subjected to. I think most people would have figured it out earlier but I guess I can't judge her because I wasn't there and don't know the whole story. (Remember, sometimes UM like to present the story in the light they liked best and not necessarily include all the relevant facts -- not a rip on the show, just the way it was.)

I just feel horrible for that poor little boy. Having a young son of my own, I can't imagine the hell that child went through. I wish Judy had been smarter and stronger for the child's sake but it's too late for that now.

I'm sorry but I disagree with those who have sympathy for Judy Olive. I understand that escaping an abusive relationship can be extremely hard to do. BUT, she barely knew this "brother and sister" after she befriended them at the hospital. Based off of the UM segment, she only interacted with Ulysses two times out of the hospital. Once to fill out the paperwork for her "reading", and the other time was the dinner she was invited to. At said dinner, she became "uninhibited" after one drink (probably spiked, but we'll never know) and then proceeded to get raped by this man. Yet the entire time this guy is raping her, she makes no effort to fight him off or scream for help. But she was not yet in this "relationship" at the time she was raped by this man. So after being taken advantage of and raped and getting pregnant by this bastard, she then begins a relationship with said bastard and joins his cult and never questions the fact that he has like thirty wives. WTF? She never reported the rape to the police and she NEVER made any attempt to call the authorities or leave after he was brutally beating her son. I have sympathy for a woman who cannot live an abusive relationship but to sit by and watch your child get brutally beat and DO NOTHING is someone I do not sympathize with at all.

I'm sorry but I disagree with those who have sympathy for Judy Olive. I understand that escaping an abusive relationship can be extremely hard to do. BUT, she barely knew this "brother and sister" after she befriended them at the hospital. Based off of the UM segment, she only interacted with Ulysses two times out of the hospital. Once to fill out the paperwork for her "reading", and the other time was the dinner she was invited to. At said dinner, she became "uninhibited" after one drink (probably spiked, but we'll never know) and then proceeded to get raped by this man. Yet the entire time this guy is raping her, she makes no effort to fight him off or scream for help. But she was not yet in this "relationship" at the time she was raped by this man. So after being taken advantage of and raped and getting pregnant by this bastard, she then begins a relationship with said bastard and joins his cult and never questions the fact that he has like thirty wives. WTF? She never reported the rape to the police and she NEVER made any attempt to call the authorities or leave after he was brutally beating her son. I have sympathy for a woman who cannot live an abusive relationship but to sit by and watch your child get brutally beat and DO NOTHING is someone I do not sympathize with at all.

I think you might be confusing what a few posters have said. I don't think anyone is defending Judy. I don't think anyone feels sorry for Judy as in "Oh, poor Judy... It could have happened to anyone." I think the "sympathy" is for the poor little boy and feeling sorry for Judy that she wasn't smart/strong enough to see this for what it was. But again, I will say, we weren't there. It's easy to judge someone based on a 10-15 minute segment. I think we all do that now and again (I know I do), but is it fair? I guess that is for each of us to decide.

I agree that she should have smelled the coffee LONG before it got to that point. I think she was incredibly naive and very possibly had some self-esteem issues. I don't feel sorry for Judy the person because I think she had plenty of chances to do the right thing. I do feel sorry for Judy's situation being so messed up that she allowed a little boy to be abused and most likely killed. I don't think any person in their right mind would allow that, so it seems to me Judy had one or more issues going on that made her act so foolishly. It could have been as simple as she isn't that smart or she wanted to believe this was a good thing, or as bad as she has some severe mental illness.

As for why she didn't fight off the rape, I think it was pretty clear in the segment that she was drugged (probably with Ruffies or something similar) so that is why the sex happened so easily and why she didn't fight him off.

I just watched this episode again on YouTube. Judy was only 21 year old when this all happened, that explains a lot.

The story started out in the spring of 1980 when she met that guy in the hospital. Then she was invited to their house "a few weeks later" and filled out a bunch of stuff including her menstrual cycle and FINANCIAL stuff! She is invited back exactly 21 days later and raped and ALexander was conceived that night.

She gives birth in May 1981 in California. That is one quick timeline!


When Alexander is only four months old (August 1981) she is back with this jerk and turning over her paychecks to him. And he is taking in more women and having more children with those women!

I read someplace ( I am horrible at linking) that Alex's dad was sentenced to jail for killing Alexander. So there is some justice, although delayed, in the end.

I think you might be confusing what a few posters have said. I don't think anyone is defending Judy. I don't think anyone feels sorry for Judy as in "Oh, poor Judy... It could have happened to anyone." I think the "sympathy" is for the poor little boy and feeling sorry for Judy that she wasn't smart/strong enough to see this for what it was. But again, I will say, we weren't there. It's easy to judge someone based on a 10-15 minute segment. I think we all do that now and again (I know I do), but is it fair? I guess that is for each of us to decide.

I agree that she should have smelled the coffee LONG before it got to that point. I think she was incredibly naive and very possibly had some self-esteem issues. I don't feel sorry for Judy the person because I think she had plenty of chances to do the right thing. I do feel sorry for Judy's situation being so messed up that she allowed a little boy to be abused and most likely killed. I don't think any person in their right mind would allow that, so it seems to me Judy had one or more issues going on that made her act so foolishly. It could have been as simple as she isn't that smart or she wanted to believe this was a good thing, or as bad as she has some severe mental illness.

As for why she didn't fight off the rape, I think it was pretty clear in the segment that she was drugged (probably with Ruffies or something similar) so that is why the sex happened so easily and why she didn't fight him off.

What I meant was that people weren't feeling sorry for Judy Olive, but they were giving reasons as to why she was "controlled". Basically making excuses for what she did. And I don't think there is any excuse for her to have put herself in that situation.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/o/olive_alexander.html

Looks like he was eventually charged with the murder.

Anyone find it interesting the Charley Project calls Judy Rosemary? Is that her real name?

on the UM segment I thought they said her named was "Ruby" in the cult. Maybe they said "Rosemary" and I misheard? or maybe she went by "Rosemary" too?

on the UM segment I thought they said her named was "Ruby" in the cult. Maybe they said "Rosemary" and I misheard? or maybe she went by "Rosemary" too?

No, you heard it correctly. They called her Ruby in the cult. I wonder if the Charley project got it wrong?

I was just thinking about Judy Olive the other day. Despite the abuse she received, she still made some very poor choices when it came to her child. It raised a question in my mind that never occurred to me before. Let's say that right after the broadcast in 1992, Alexander was found alive and well at age 11. If I were the judge and heard all the facts in this case, I would sympathize with Judy, but I might have serious qualms about immediately giving her custody of her son again. Does anybody have similar opinions?

Her full name is Rosemary Judith Olive, "Judy" for short. "Ruby" was just a cult name Ulysses gave her. She is still a nurse in California.

As for the blame game, Rosemary wasn't the only woman in the cult, so to solely jump on her is pointless. Perhaps she was naive, but take into consideration that Judy was involved with someone who held a lot of mental and emotional power over women and children, and that she was first drugged and an unwilling pawn, just like all the other women. I feel that to an extent, she had Stockholm's syndrome and didn't challenge Ulysses, at least not at first.

I'm not making excuses for her. Perhaps she could have been stronger and more aware, but you don't know what the ramifications are then until they dawn on you later. I always felt that in the beginning, Judy, a new mother, wanted the boy's father to be involved in his life, I mean, fathers should be a part of their kid's life, and she had no idea that it was going to get worse. How is one supposed to combat that? I don't think there's a perfect solution to everything, but thankfully Ulysses is where he belongs.

I read an article where Rosemary stated that she forgives Ulysses, because she had to make peace with this and try to rebuild her life, but she also said that what he did wasn't right and that he got what he deserves and is where he belongs.

I agree with you, 1990 UM Fan. It is easy for us to have our own opinions about her, because we weren't the victim here. It is possible for people to manipulate you and have control over you in various ways. Many times people try to keep their enemy close, just to keep the peace. I think she fell into an abusive relationship so deeply, she was unable to make any rational decisions. Now, I am not condoning her behavior... I am just observing that this lady has obviously suffered a lot.

IAt said dinner, she became "uninhibited" after one drink (probably spiked, but we'll never know) and then proceeded to get raped by this man. Yet the entire time this guy is raping her, she makes no effort to fight him off or scream for help. But she was not yet in this "relationship" at the time she was raped by this man.

Studies have shown that many rape victims report going numb when their attack is taking place, staying quiet and still, just praying for it to end. This has occurred even in cases where if the victim fought or screamed, someone would have heard them and come to their rescue. But the victim didn't because it turns out that people seldom act rationally when trauma is involved. This seems obvious to us, but it's not obvious to enough people, because defense attorneys use the numb reaction as proof that the victim is lying. And in any case, it all heaps more shame onto the shoulders of the victim, who will beat themselves up for not fighting or screaming for years on end. :mad: Yeah, there's a reason I currently have both middle fingers raised at you.

Studies have shown that many rape victims report going numb when their attack is taking place, staying quiet and still, just praying for it to end. This has occurred even in cases where if the victim fought or screamed, someone would have heard them and come to their rescue. But the victim didn't because it turns out that people seldom act rationally when trauma is involved. This seems obvious to us, but it's not obvious to enough people, because defense attorneys use the numb reaction as proof that the victim is lying. And in any case, it all heaps more shame onto the shoulders of the victim, who will beat themselves up for not fighting or screaming for years on end. :mad: Yeah, there's a reason I currently have both middle fingers raised at you.
Thank you for making that point. We also have no idea how this woman was raised and what type of life she had. She did choose a questionable man to have children with, which could be a hint toward the kind of relationship she had wit her parents. No woman that is abused likes it, and woman who are abused, usually do a lot to cope with it, especially disassociating, and suppressing memories. I cannot say i know for sure what this woman gone through, just as everyone else, but i do know someone who is very close to me and has been through similar abuse. Judy is a victim just as much as her son was.

I would also add that it may be very hard to admit that one was raped, especially when the incident produced a son who she clearly loved very much. I would imagine those to be conflicting feelings...