College student commits suicide after roommates streamline sexual encounter online

The case of the Rutgers University students (http://%20http//www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/09/30/us/AP-US-Student-Taped-Sex.html?hp) facing charges after the suicide of a fellow student is as sickening as they come.

According to published reports, one of the students, Dharun Ravi, 18, is suspected of streaming his roommate's private sexual encounter live on the Internet. Another classmate, Molly Wei, 18, has also been charged in the case.

Authorities say Ravi tweeted a message:

"Roommate asked for the room till midnight. I went into molly's room and turned on my webcam. I saw him making out with a dude. Yay."

Ravi tried a similar live feed on the Internet a couple of days later, prosecutors say.

"Anyone with iChat," another message said, "I dare you to video chat me between the hours of 9:30 and 12. Yes, it's happening again."

The next day the roommate, Tyler Clementi (http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/09/30/new.jersey.student.suicide/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn), an 18-year-old Rutgers freshman known as a shy, accomplished violinist, jumped off the George Washington Bridge into the Hudson River.

Comments on the story from New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/30/nyregion/30suicide.html?src=me&ref=general) readers have come in the hundreds, many of them raging against evilness and homophobia. Gay rights group said they considered Clementi's death a hate crime.

But this case also raises a provocative question given all the news lately about how today's young people are taking forever to grow up: Should we hold these two young suspects accountable as adults?

One commenter on the New York Times website, a teacher, wrote in response to the Rutgers tragedy:

"My students, today, spend half the day texting their parents and the other half immersed in a world inhabited only by their peers...The stage of life we once called adolescence no longer exists. People in their "teens" used to act out and rebel and learn from their mistakes, but now their parents -- with the help of technology--infantilize them until their late 20s."

The teacher added: "Furthermore, "teens" used to have some exposure to those outside their peer group, but -- with the help of technology -- they no longer have that exposure to the same degree and they, thus, encounter very few moments in which they are challenged by elders or anyone different from them. In other words, they don't have to grow up. Childhood now lasts until the late 20s."

So if parents infantilize while technology shelters, where does that leave the kids? If Ravi and Wei were really children, how would we rationalize what they are accused of doing? Would we see it as a prank gone terribly wrong? Would we deem the suspects incapable of thinking of the consequences? Would we see them as vicious and evil?

While we ponder, the two each face charges of invasion of privacy punishable by up to 5 years.

Tyler Clementi

http://ellen.warnerbros.com/2010/09/its_time_to_end_teenage_bullying_0930.php?icid=ellen|ws&icid=main%7Cmain%7Cdl2%7Csec1_lnk3%7C174628#ixzz119VICHSV (http://ellen.warnerbros.com/2010/09/its_time_to_end_teenage_bullying_0930.php?icid=ellen%7Cws&icid=main%7Cmain%7Cdl2%7Csec1_lnk3%7C174628#ixzz119VICHSV)[/COLOR][/LEFT]

Click on above link to hear Ellen speak. ^

Ellen Degeneres...

I am devastated by the death of 18-year-old Tyler Clementi. If you don't know, Tyler was a bright student at Rutgers University whose life was senselessly cut short. He was outed as being gay on the internet and he killed himself.

Something must be done. This month alone, there has been a shocking number of news stories about teens who have been teased and bullied and then committed suicide; like 13-year-old Seth Walsh in Tehachapi, California. Asher Brown, 13, of Cypress, Texas and 15-year-old Billy Lucas in Greensberg, Indiana. This needs to be a wake-up call to everyone: teenage bullying and teasing is an epidemic in this country, and the death rate is climbing.

One life lost in this senseless way is tragic. Four lives lost is a crisis. And these are just the stories we hear about. How many other teens have we lost? How many others are suffering in silence? Being a teenager and figuring out who you are is hard enough without someone attacking you.

My heart is breaking for their families, their friends and for a society that continues to let this happen. These kids needed us. We have an obligation to change this. There are messages everywhere that validate this kind of bullying and taunting and we have to make it stop. We can't let intolerance and ignorance take another kid's life.

I want anyone out there who feels different and alone to know that I know how you feel. There is help out there. You can find support in your community.

I think that the 2 teenagers in this case should be charged with whatever
crime they are guilty of, but that it should not receive special designation
as a hate crime, because all bullying in my opinion is motivated by hate.

Also, while people should not be treated as less than human for being gay, I
do not believe that homosexuality should be rewarded because God's word
says that it is a sin and is morally wrong. Regardless, the death of any young
person is a tragedy.

Who said anything about 'rewarding' homosexuality? Are you saying that by potentially prosecuting these people they are rewarding the deceased boy for being gay? I'm not following here.

As for your comments about being gay, I never 'decided' that I was going to be a straight male. I just...was...a straight male. Why would you assume that being gay is any different? And if it's not a choice, then how can anyone presume to punish it?

As to the case above...it's horrible but bullying is bullying. This is on the same plane as that woman who posed as a young boy to seduce then emotionally destroy a girl who was an enemy of her daughter, which led to the girl's suicide. It's evil in my opinion to consciously torment, humiliate and emotionally batter someone but the prosecution using current laws is dicey. I think perhaps new legislation is in order to deal with the new face of assault on the internet.

Whatever happens, these tormentors should pay in some way. They didn't mean for the boy to kill himself I'm sure, but they DID mean to hurt him, and they should have thought about the possible consequences of their actions before they pursued them. And we need to make other people think twice before treating people this way.

God's word says that it is a sin and is morally wrong.
And Santa Clause says that good little boys and girls will get nice presents if they obey. :lol:

Bullying is bullying. I don't want to hear any excuses. A person is dead because of the actions of others. I'm sure they didn't expect him to die but they did expect to hurt and humiliate him. Whatever happens to them, I won't feel sorry for them one bit. People's actions have consequences sometimes.

I did not say that prosecuting those other teenagers was rewarding
homosexuality, what I meant was that Gays and Lesbians seem to be
looked at as folk heroes in this country nowadays and that disturbs me
because it goes against God's word as revealed in the New Testament.

Gays and Lesbians choose to be gay just like any other sin that is found
in God's word. I do not believe that there is a Gay gene that forces people
to be Gay or Straight. Some people might be predisposed to feeling a certain
way about their sexuality, but ultimately they make the decision to be
Gay or Lesbian. All people who know right or wrong make the choice to sin.

I really don't see how gays are looked at as "folk heroes." I find that comment to be quite irrelevant here. If this was a straight person who committed suicide for the exact same reason, would you have said the same thing? Of course not.

I also couldn't disagree more with your opinion of the "choice" thing, but this thread really isn't the place to discuss it.

I'm sure they didn't expect him to die but they did expect to hurt and humiliate him.

You're exactly right, they did intend to hurt him. They ended up hurting him so bad that he did something that drastic. Now they have to live with that for the rest of their lives, and I hope it haunts them for just as long.

I think that the 2 teenagers in this case should be charged with whatever
crime they are guilty of, but that it should not receive special designation
as a hate crime, because all bullying in my opinion is motivated by hate.

Also, while people should not be treated as less than human for being gay, I
do not believe that homosexuality should be rewarded because God's word
says that it is a sin and is morally wrong. Regardless, the death of any young
person is a tragedy.
Lee, a young man is dead, and his sexual orientation probably played a role in his death. I know you have your views on homosexuality. I think in this case, you should give it a rest. Like I said, a young man is dead. This isn't the time or place to get on your soapbox.

Bullying is bullying. I don't want to hear any excuses. A person is dead because of the actions of others. I'm sure they didn't expect him to die but they did expect to hurt and humiliate him. Whatever happens to them, I won't feel sorry for them one bit. People's actions have consequences sometimes.
Exactly!! Look at Matthew Shepard, and that guy who went on Jenny Jones to say he had a crush on his straight neighbor and ended up getting killed by the guy.

I've known quite a few gay people that I've either worked or gone to school with. I don't endorse or agree with their lifestyle, but I like them as people. We can talk and joke about other topics - without necessarily agreeing on everything. I believe in treating others the way you would want to be treated yourself.

If Jesus Christ dined and fellowshipped with the tax collectors, prostitutes, lepers, and so forth - I have no doubt that he loves gay people as well. I believe He reaches out to them in love and mercy just like He does to straight people.

While I don't condone the gay lifestyle - I'm not going to join Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist Church and condemn gay people. It's not my place to judge others.

Awful. :( It's sad to hear that teens are being bullied becaues they are gay. It's tragic that the bullying and taunting they endure often leads to their death. I think it's important to remember that they are people regarding of their sexual orientation. Bullying, any form, is wrong. Whether it's because your seen as a nerd, being gay, shy, or disabled (just to name a few) the tormenting such individuals suffer is unexcuseable.

My heart goes out to Tyler and the other three boys who took their lives as a result of endless teasing. I saw on the news about the case that took place in Texas: Asher Brown Commits Suicide After Being Bullied (http://www.click2houston.com/news/25215576/detail.html)

I can certainly understand being bullied because of my visual disability. Growing up, I was made fun of. I was called all the hurtful names you can think of. I was always picked last for everything, and that's if I was picked at all. I hated when assignments involved groups of any size. No one wanted me to be a part of the group. Sometimes I would have to do a project by myself because others would refuse to work with me.

Exactly!! Look at Matthew Shepard, and that guy who went on Jenny Jones to say he had a crush on his straight neighbor and ended up getting killed by the guy.

I've known quite a few gay people that I've either worked or gone to school with. I don't endorse or agree with their lifestyle, but I like them as people. We can talk and joke about other topics - without necessarily agreeing on everything. I believe in treating others the way you would want to be treated yourself.

If Jesus Christ dined and fellowshipped with the tax collectors, prostitutes, lepers, and so forth - I have no doubt that he loves gay people as well. I believe He reaches out to them in love and mercy just like He does to straight people.

While I don't condone the gay lifestyle - I'm not going to join Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist Church and condemn gay people. It's not my place to judge others.
That's pretty much the way I feel. No matter what, Tyler's rights were violated and he was targeted because of hate. That's really what all bullies have in common... hate. He's dead because some sick individuals went too far.

Awful. :( It's sad to hear that teens are being bullied becaues they are gay. It's tragic that the bullying and taunting they endure often leads to their death. I think it's important to remember that they are people regarding of their sexual orientation. Bullying, any form, is wrong. Whether it's because your seen as a nerd, being gay, shy, or disabled (just to name a few) the tormenting such individuals suffer is unexcuseable.

My heart goes out to Tyler and the other three boys who took their lives as a result of endless teasing. I saw on the news about the case that took place in Texas: Asher Brown Commits Suicide After Being Bullied (http://www.click2houston.com/news/25215576/detail.html)

I can certainly understand being bullied because of my visual disability. Growing up, I was made fun of. I was called all the hurtful names you can think of. I was always picked last for everything, and that's if I was picked at all. I hated when assignments involved groups of any size. No one wanted me to be a part of the group. Sometimes I would have to do a project by myself because others would refuse to work with me.
I'm so sad that you had to go through that Jenny. :( Bullies are really cowards. They pick on people who they think won't fight back. My one regret in school was that I didn't fight back. These people are just filled with hate and I don't want to hear that they're just kids. So are the people that are being tormenting by these bullies. They have a right to be left alone.

This makes me angry. :mad: What a ****ing selfish thing to do. They looked for a hurtful way to get their laughs, and they did it at the expense of someone's life. I hope this haunts them forever. :mad: But knowing what cruel, heartless people they are now, it probably won't bother them. May karma come and bite them in the ass!

I am actually taking part in a suicide prevention walk today... I will gladly donate a good amount of money today!

Also; WTF about 18yos now not being considered adults. ??? I DON'T UNDERSTAND. I am 25 years old and I very much feel like an adult. I pay my own bills, I buy my own stuff and all that. I *know* that if I do something illegal, this is my own fault and I'll own up to my actions. I'm rapidly approaching my late 20s, and I definitely feel that I left my childhood behind for good nearly 10 years ago!

I said it before, I'll say it again. WHAT A SELFISH THING TO DO. I hope these losers (and that is the nicest thing I can say about them!) get punished to the max. Jail time is too good for these losers. :mad:

Very well said! :clap: I agree.

Exactly!! Look at Matthew Shepard, and that guy who went on Jenny Jones to say he had a crush on his straight neighbor and ended up getting killed by the guy.

I've known quite a few gay people that I've either worked or gone to school with. I don't endorse or agree with their lifestyle, but I like them as people. We can talk and joke about other topics - without necessarily agreeing on everything. I believe in treating others the way you would want to be treated yourself.

If Jesus Christ dined and fellowshipped with the tax collectors, prostitutes, lepers, and so forth - I have no doubt that he loves gay people as well. I believe He reaches out to them in love and mercy just like He does to straight people.

While I don't condone the gay lifestyle - I'm not going to join Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist Church and condemn gay people. It's not my place to judge others.

What happened is such a terrible thing.

Janice, it is not a matter of getting on my soapbox, it is a matter of
holding to my Christian principles. Yes, I am sorry this young man is
dead and what the two other teenagers did to him was horrible and
they should be prosecuted for what they did. But I am not going to
pretend that homosexuality is right and moral because it is not. The
bible lays out clear moral guidelines for how we are to live and one of
those guidelines is marriage is a sacred union between a man and a
woman, not a man and a man or a woman and a woman. I am not saying
this young man deserved to die but I am not going to say that he was
leading the right lifestyle because he clearly was not. You or anyone else
can call me homophobic or accuse me of Gay bashing if you wish but my
beliefs are firmly rooted in God's word, The Bible and I will hold to them.
This is disgusting. You're a piece of work.

what happened in the last few weeks with these suicides is just tragic. i cannot begin to imagine the hell those kids had to endure from their tormentors.

bullying is wrong and must not be condoned- gay, straight, black, hispanic, asian, disabled, young, old we are all human and no body deserves to go through what they have been through.

i was bullied during high school- most of the taunts and name-calling came from my classmates mostly. i was made fun of because of my name and because i was asian. it happened every single day i was in. i dreaded going to high school then because i knew i had to hear people say horrible things about me and to me.

at one point i was going to report it to the head of year, but when one of my tormentors found out that i was going to tell them- the head- they 'threatened' to beat me up. which never happened thankfully.

when me and my family relocated to another part of london, i left that high school and i was so glad i never had to go back there again.

I am not going to pretend that homosexuality is right and moral because it is not. The bible lays out clear moral guidelines for how we are to live
my beliefs are firmly rooted in God's word, The Bible and I will hold to them.
And if you obey, Santa Clause and the Easter bunny will bring you nice gifts at holiday time. And if you follow the word of Mother Goose's books, you will also be rewarded.

Jesus loves Gays and Lesbians and he reaches out to them-if they repent of their sinful lifestyle and turn to God.

^^^ You are so wrong.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/01/earlyshow/living/parenting/main6918173.shtml

Oct. 1, 2010

Judy Shepard: Tyler's Death Reminds Me of My Gay Son's Murder; Students Who Taped Him Should Be Punished; Act Was "Hateful"

(CBS) Matthew Shepard, an openly gay 21-year-old University of Wyoming student, was brutally murdered 12 years ago by two young men who targeted him because of his sexual orientation. He was pistol-whipped, tortured, tied to a fence post and left to die by the men, who are now serving life sentences for their actions.

Since then, his mother, Judy Shepard, has been an activist for issues involving gay youth. Her work has led to legislation in her son's name, The Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act. The legislatioin, signed by President Obama in October 2009, expands federal hate-crime laws to include crimes movitivated by a person's actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability. Judy and her husband, Dennis, also founded the Matthew Shepard Foundation to combat hate and intolerance.

In the wake of Tyler Clementi's suicide after two students allegedly streamed a sexual encounter of his with another man on the Internet, Judy shared her take on the tragedy, on "The Early Show" Friday.

She said the students, Clementi's roommate, Dharun Ravi, and Molly Wei should be punished for what they're accused of doing.

"I hope they are prosecuted to the full extent of the law," she said. "What they did was reckless, thoughtless and hateful."

Judy said Clementi's death has brought back Matthew's death, and she says his parents have her deepest sympathies.

She said, "Only they know the true soul of their son, and that is what they need to hold in their hearts now."

Judy has worked for years for tolerance of homosexuality in the U.S. But has anything changed toward homosexuality since her son's death?

Judy told "Early Show" co-anchor Maggie Rodriguez, "You know, we have such vicious rhetoric floating around the country, I'm not really sure who our leaders are and what they think they're communicating to our young people. All you have to do is go to the floor of the Congress, media, the newspapers, about the discontent with 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' and the (gay) marriage issue and it still seems we are trying to relegate the gay community to second-class citizens."

As for lawmakers, Judy said, "They should be granting basic civil rights to the gay community instead of continuing to try to deny them. To me, that's what it is, basic civil rights. To deny them service in the military or job security on the federal level, or even the right to marry and receive all those benefits that are derived from that, is just unfair and, in my view, un-American."

Rodriguez remarked, "In the meantime, though, I feel it has to include parents and schools who are educating children, teaching them attitudes. What do you wish the people who killed Matthew would have known or could have been taught before they committed this atrocious crime?"

Judy replied, "I just think it's so important to try to communicate to our children and/or students empathy, to understand what other people's lives are like, and a general rule of accepting everyone for who they are and respecting them, just for being here. Self-respect is just so important. And if our society is not allowing us to even feel that, I don't know what the recourse is. But, we work very hard in the school system to try to (combat) bullying, but if we don't deal with the issues of the bully, we really get nowhere. What we do at school needs to be followed up at home. And what we do at home needs to be followed up at school. I think we just think someone else is taking care of it, and, evidently, they're not."

I am sorry for the comments I made earlier on this thread. Janice is right, I
should remember what is appropriate and not appropriate on a thread like this
and I should keep my opinions in check.

I think they should be tried as adults, if a person can vote and serve in the armed forces at 18, then they are basically considered an ADULT.

If more teenagers were held accountable for their actions, many would probably think twice about pulling something like this. That's the problem with this country, teenangers are coddled too much

Bullying is bullying. I don't want to hear any excuses. A person is dead because of the actions of others. I'm sure they didn't expect him to die but they did expect to hurt and humiliate him. Whatever happens to them, I won't feel sorry for them one bit. People's actions have consequences sometimes.

Well said Sonny!

I think they should be tried as adults, if a person can vote and serve in the armed forces at 18, then they are basically considered an ADULT.

If more teenagers were held accountable for their actions, many would probably think twice about pulling something like this. That's the problem with this country, teenangers are coddled too much

AMEN!!

I think the thing that infuriates and disturbs me the most about this is how it points out how little people THINK before doing things anymore; it's like their impulse control is just not even there.

It reminds me of that case I saw on the old Court TV a few years ago where a group of teens moved a stop sign out of a back road intersection "as a joke" and as a result of their thoughtless idiocy people went right through it and died. And afterwards at their trial there was so much hand wringing about how 'they didn't mean to hurt anyone' and they were 'just kids', etc, etc. Well, yeah, I get that they didn't purposefully commit murder, but THINK for a second. What did they expect the result of such a moronic act would be? Did they take one second to consider the consequences of their actions on OTHER PEOPLE, you know, what the world is populated with, besides themselves?

It's the same in this case. I have no doubt these two selfish brats didn't even consider that this might have led to a death, but they SHOULD HAVE. Just because you think about doing something doesn't mean you have to do it. Most people do, or at least used to, have a filter to siphon off all the things that might cause others harm even if it gives us some kind of momentary sick pleasure. But lately it seems like no one even thinks of the other person. It's such an egocentric society we live in, and sad to say, I think it's getting worse.

Sorry about the rant. It's just that stuff like this really sets me on fire. :mad:

^ Rant all you want, you're among friends!! It's just a horrible story all around. No one deserves to be treated that way.

^ Rant all you want, you're among friends!! It's just a horrible story all around. No one deserves to be treated that way.

Thanks! I still haven't gotten over that monstrous woman who impersonated a guy and caused her daughter's enemy to kill herself, either. What goes through these people's minds is a total mystery to me. :mad: :angryfire :cuss:

I think they should be tried as adults, if a person can vote and serve in the armed forces at 18, then they are basically considered an ADULT.

If more teenagers were held accountable for their actions, many would probably think twice about pulling something like this. That's the problem with this country, teenangers are coddled too much



Well said Sonny!

They are going to be tried as adults. They both turned 18 months ago and they both attended the same high school and have been friends for years. There is actually a Facebook group for the female student Molly Wei in which people are saying that she didn't know what was going on and didn't know that Ravi was going to be recording Tyler and the other male on the webcam.

I think the only thing they should be charged with is invasion of privacy and voyerisum. They posted and streamed the video online without Tyler's consent. I hope they do get the maxium sentences and do have to pay fines. Both of them come from well to do families to paying fines and attorney fees won't hurt them. They should definitely do some time in prison.

I hope the family of that college student files a wrongful death suit. Sure it wont bring him back, and they could donate it to charity or something

I think the thing that infuriates and disturbs me the most about this is how it points out how little people THINK before doing things anymore; it's like their impulse control is just not even there.

It reminds me of that case I saw on the old Court TV a few years ago where a group of teens moved a stop sign out of a back road intersection "as a joke" and as a result of their thoughtless idiocy people went right through it and died. And afterwards at their trial there was so much hand wringing about how 'they didn't mean to hurt anyone' and they were 'just kids', etc, etc. Well, yeah, I get that they didn't purposefully commit murder, but THINK for a second. What did they expect the result of such a moronic act would be? Did they take one second to consider the consequences of their actions on OTHER PEOPLE, you know, what the world is populated with, besides themselves?

It's the same in this case. I have no doubt these two selfish brats didn't even consider that this might have led to a death, but they SHOULD HAVE. Just because you think about doing something doesn't mean you have to do it. Most people do, or at least used to, have a filter to siphon off all the things that might cause others harm even if it gives us some kind of momentary sick pleasure. But lately it seems like no one even thinks of the other person. It's such an egocentric society we live in, and sad to say, I think it's getting worse.

Sorry about the rant. It's just that stuff like this really sets me on fire. :mad:
Rant away. You ACTUALLY GET IT, and thank you!! :)

Plain and simple answer... They were selfish. They wanted instant gratification for their actions. What more can I say? May this "instant gratification" bite them in the ass. Here, have jail time for life because of your ****ing boneheaded actions! GRRRR.

It's like this guy who tore open a portable camping table so he could look at what it actually looked like last night when I was at work. Dude wanted instant gratification, and he got it. I also had to spend 10 minutes carefully taping the packaging back to the table, and putting additional tape in spots where I was sure it would be ripped at. ****er should have been made to pay for the table, AND the ensuing labor that his little act incurred.

It's nothing new that I think that 99% of the human race are plain ****ing idiots.

Rant away. You ACTUALLY GET IT, and thank you!! :)

Plain and simple answer... They were selfish. They wanted instant gratification for their actions. What more can I say? May this "instant gratification" bite them in the ass. Here, have jail time for life because of your ****ing boneheaded actions! GRRRR.

It's like this guy who tore open a portable camping table so he could look at what it actually looked like last night when I was at work. Dude wanted instant gratification, and he got it. I also had to spend 10 minutes carefully taping the packaging back to the table, and putting additional tape in spots where I was sure it would be ripped at. ****er should have been made to pay for the table, AND the ensuing labor that his little act incurred.

It's nothing new that I think that 99% of the human race are plain ****ing idiots.

Thanks for the support! I wish you were wrong about most people, but I don't think you are. And I don't want to be ageist but it seems like the selfishness is worse in younger people. Though that's not to say it's all their fault. Maybe it's the fault of their parent's generation, who failed to instill any values in them beyond "what I want right now".

Meh. (shakes head disgustedly) I need some sunshine and unicorns, lol.

Meh. (shakes head disgustedly) I need some sunshine and unicorns, lol.

Me, too!!!! :nod:

A lot of bullying, IMO, comes from what society (through our parents and peers) teaches us is "different". Kids believe that if something is "different" from what they are or what is accepted as "normal", then other children are bullies and ostracized. So unless our society becomes more open minded towards life and its definitions of "normalcy", this will continue.

Been a long weekend & haven't had a chance to post til now.

Those teens who did this reprehensible act are vermin. All the evidence against them should be impounded (if not already) and their posts should be checked to see if they targeted Tyler because he was gay. If there is evidence they did, it should be prosecuted as a hate crime.

Thank God I grew up before all this technology just sprang up out of nowhere. I think these two creeps knew EXACTLY what they were doing. Who films a private intimate act AND THEN POSTS it on the internet for millions (maybe billions to see.) I almost wished Tyler had reacted the exact opposite way, got a gun and took a shot or two at these two creeps - what jury would have convicted him?

With all the outrage against them, I can't imagine them NOT going to jail, and it should be for the maximum time possible - five or ten - based on whether there is enough evidence to prosecute it as a hate crime.

Their life isn't worth two cents now, and bet they have a good chance of becoming pariahs.

The laws on cyber-bullying also need to be reviewed. So that additional charges for some type of manslaughter can be levied against perpetrators who commit acts like this.

phoebe prince: should school bullying be a crime?
Newsweek

It started with rumors, a love triangle, and a dirty look in a high-school bathroom. Soon jokes about an "Irish slut" cropped up on Facebook, and a girl’s face was scribbled out of a class photo hanging up at school. One day, in the cafeteria, another girl marched in, pointed at her, and shouted "stay away from other people’s men." A week later, as the girl walked home, a car full of students crept close. One kid hurled a crumpled soda can out the window, followed closely by shrieks of "whore!"

If your children had behaved like this, how would you want them punished? Certainly a proper grounding would be in order; computer privileges revoked. Detention, yes—maybe even suspension. Or what about 10 years in jail? Now what if we told you that the girl had gone home after the soda-can incident and killed herself—discovered by her little sister, hanging in a stairwell. Now which punishment fits the crime?

This is the conundrum of Phoebe Prince, the 15-year-old South Hadley, Mass., girl the media have already determined was "bullied to death"—her alleged "mean girl" tormentors charged with felony crimes. Bullied to death is the crime of the moment, the blanket explanation slapped on suicide cases from Texas to California, where two 13-year-olds recently killed themselves, bullied for being gay. The most twisted example yet came last week, when Tyler Clementi, an 18-year-old New Jersey college student, threw himself off the George Washington Bridge after his roommate and a friend allegedly streamed a Webcam video of his tryst with a man.

Cases like these are being invoked as potent symbols for why, in the digital age, schools need bullying policies and states need legislation. But do they? Is the notion of being bullied to death valid? No one would deny that Clementi’s roommate did the unconscionable; the alleged crime is all the more disturbing because of the specter of antigay bias. Yet he couldn’t have known how badly the stunt would end. (He and his friend now face up to five years in prison for privacy invasion; there is also talk of additional bias charges.) In the case of Prince, the answer of who’s to blame might change if you knew that she had tried to kill herself before the epithets, was on medication for depression, and was struggling with her parents’ separation. So where is the line now between behavior that’s bad and behavior that’s criminal? Does the definition of old-school bullying need to be rewritten for the new-media age?

In effect, it already has been. Forty-five states now have anti-bullying laws; in Massachusetts, which has one of the strictest, anti-bullying programs are mandated in schools, and criminal punishment is outlined in the text for even the youngest offenders. It’s a good-will effort, to be sure—prevention programs have been shown to reduce school bullying by as much as 50 percent. With 1 in 5 students bullied each year—and an appalling 9 in 10 gay and lesbian -students—that’s good news: kids who are bullied are five times more likely to be depressed, and nearly 160,000 of them skip school each day, fearful of their peers. Bullies themselves don’t fare well, either: one study, of middle-school boys, found that 60 percent of those deemed "bullies" would be convicted of at least one crime by the time they reached 24.

But forget, for the moment, the dozens of articles that have called bullying a "pandemic." Forget the talk-show specials, the headlines, the Florida dad who rushed onto a school bus to scare his 13-year-old daughter's bullies straight. School bullying can be devastating, but social scientists say it is no more extreme, nor more prevalent, than it was a half century ago. (And it's even gotten better over the past decade, says Dan Olweus, a leading bullying expert.) Today’s world of cyberbullying is different, yes—far-reaching, more visually potent, and harder to wash away than comments scrawled on a bathroom wall. All of which can make it harder to combat. But it still happens a third less than traditional bullying. And those "mean girls" we keep hearing about? Turns out, boys are still twice as likely to bully as girls.

The reality may be that while the incidence of bullying has remained relatively the same, it’s our reaction to it that’s changed: the helicopter parents who want to protect their kids from every stick and stone, the cable-news commentators who whip them into a frenzy, the insta-vigilantism of the Internet. When it comes down to it, bullying is not just a social ill; it’s a "cottage industry," says Suffolk Law School’s David Yamada—complete with commentators and prevention experts and a new breed of legal scholars, all preparing to take on an enemy that’s always been there. None of this is to say that bullying is not a serious problem (it is), or that tackling it is not important. But like a stereo with the volume turned too high, all the noise distorts the facts, making it nearly impossible to judge when a case is somehow criminal, or merely cruel.

to read the full story, click on the link below

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/04/phoebe-prince-should-bullying-be-a-crime.html

Thank God I grew up before all this technology just sprang up out of nowhere.

Ditto here!!! I mean, I got picked on a lot at school, but compared to today, it was a Sunday picnic. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Ditto here!!! I mean, I got picked on a lot at school, but compared to today, it was a Sunday picnic. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

You got that right... I can see why more & more parents are home schooling there kids. I had many probs in high school & so happy that I am not in it today. I think i would be just miserable going.

phoebe prince: should school bullying be a crime?
Newsweek

It started with rumors, a love triangle, and a dirty look in a high-school bathroom. Soon jokes about an "Irish slut" cropped up on Facebook, and a girl’s face was scribbled out of a class photo hanging up at school. One day, in the cafeteria, another girl marched in, pointed at her, and shouted "stay away from other people’s men." A week later, as the girl walked home, a car full of students crept close. One kid hurled a crumpled soda can out the window, followed closely by shrieks of "whore!"

If your children had behaved like this, how would you want them punished? Certainly a proper grounding would be in order; computer privileges revoked. Detention, yes—maybe even suspension. Or what about 10 years in jail? Now what if we told you that the girl had gone home after the soda-can incident and killed herself—discovered by her little sister, hanging in a stairwell. Now which punishment fits the crime?

This is the conundrum of Phoebe Prince, the 15-year-old South Hadley, Mass., girl the media have already determined was "bullied to death"—her alleged "mean girl" tormentors charged with felony crimes. Bullied to death is the crime of the moment, the blanket explanation slapped on suicide cases from Texas to California, where two 13-year-olds recently killed themselves, bullied for being gay. The most twisted example yet came last week, when Tyler Clementi, an 18-year-old New Jersey college student, threw himself off the George Washington Bridge after his roommate and a friend allegedly streamed a Webcam video of his tryst with a man.

Cases like these are being invoked as potent symbols for why, in the digital age, schools need bullying policies and states need legislation. But do they? Is the notion of being bullied to death valid? No one would deny that Clementi’s roommate did the unconscionable; the alleged crime is all the more disturbing because of the specter of antigay bias. Yet he couldn’t have known how badly the stunt would end. (He and his friend now face up to five years in prison for privacy invasion; there is also talk of additional bias charges.) In the case of Prince, the answer of who’s to blame might change if you knew that she had tried to kill herself before the epithets, was on medication for depression, and was struggling with her parents’ separation. So where is the line now between behavior that’s bad and behavior that’s criminal? Does the definition of old-school bullying need to be rewritten for the new-media age?

In effect, it already has been. Forty-five states now have anti-bullying laws; in Massachusetts, which has one of the strictest, anti-bullying programs are mandated in schools, and criminal punishment is outlined in the text for even the youngest offenders. It’s a good-will effort, to be sure—prevention programs have been shown to reduce school bullying by as much as 50 percent. With 1 in 5 students bullied each year—and an appalling 9 in 10 gay and lesbian -students—that’s good news: kids who are bullied are five times more likely to be depressed, and nearly 160,000 of them skip school each day, fearful of their peers. Bullies themselves don’t fare well, either: one study, of middle-school boys, found that 60 percent of those deemed "bullies" would be convicted of at least one crime by the time they reached 24.

But forget, for the moment, the dozens of articles that have called bullying a "pandemic." Forget the talk-show specials, the headlines, the Florida dad who rushed onto a school bus to scare his 13-year-old daughter's bullies straight. School bullying can be devastating, but social scientists say it is no more extreme, nor more prevalent, than it was a half century ago. (And it's even gotten better over the past decade, says Dan Olweus, a leading bullying expert.) Today’s world of cyberbullying is different, yes—far-reaching, more visually potent, and harder to wash away than comments scrawled on a bathroom wall. All of which can make it harder to combat. But it still happens a third less than traditional bullying. And those "mean girls" we keep hearing about? Turns out, boys are still twice as likely to bully as girls.

The reality may be that while the incidence of bullying has remained relatively the same, it’s our reaction to it that’s changed: the helicopter parents who want to protect their kids from every stick and stone, the cable-news commentators who whip them into a frenzy, the insta-vigilantism of the Internet. When it comes down to it, bullying is not just a social ill; it’s a "cottage industry," says Suffolk Law School’s David Yamada—complete with commentators and prevention experts and a new breed of legal scholars, all preparing to take on an enemy that’s always been there. None of this is to say that bullying is not a serious problem (it is), or that tackling it is not important. But like a stereo with the volume turned too high, all the noise distorts the facts, making it nearly impossible to judge when a case is somehow criminal, or merely cruel.

to read the full story, click on the link below

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/04/phoebe-prince-should-bullying-be-a-crime.html
First of all, bullies should be expelled from school. That would be a start. Everyone should feel safe at school. I got tired of hearing the old saying boys will be boys when it came to bullies. And yes, Bullying should be a crime. Something has to be done. Unless you've been bullied, nobody can understand the hurt that you have. I can't imagine being bullied today. It has got to be 100% worse. Everything would be put on the internet for the whole world to see. It was bad enough with just the whole school. I'm glad some people are taking this seriously. Your school days should be some of the happiest times of your life. It isn't fair that some mean spirited kids just take away your childhood. :mad:

You got that right... I can see why more & more parents are home schooling there kids. I had many probs in high school & so happy that I am not in it today. I think i would be just miserable going.
I agree 100%!!!

It's awful. Why in the **** would you record your roommate's sexual encounters anyway? Not only is it an invasion of privacy, but it's utterly disgusting.

Why did this guy care so much that Tyler was gay? WHY?

May Tyler rest in peace. He had so much life left to live. :(

It's awful. Why in the **** would you record your roommate's sexual encounters anyway? Not only is it an invasion of privacy, but it's utterly disgusting.

How true. It's sickening to spy on someone having sex. It sort of like peeking at someone going to the bathroom, only worse. This story is just so sad.

^ My feelings exactly!!

My experience is that people who obsess about other people's lives generally have little or no meaningful life themselves. If you are happy and secure with your own life, why would you be concerned about someone else's private affairs? Answer: you wouldn't.

I think some law makers are trying to create a new category for video voyeurism. The one of the books (for the 5 yr term) is for stuff like upskirting, videtaping in locker rooms etc. - but where the perpetrator is just doing it for their own prurient interests-to look at the recording secretly without posting it online. Still a horrendous violation to be sure, but even lawmakers couldn't keep up with the evilness of cyber bullies, and didn't seem to acknowledge a category for posting such things on the internet -for millions to see.

But now, I think many are creating a more egregious charge for someone taping something like this (and intimate relations certainly falls within this category) , AND THEN posting it on the internet.

Don't these kids have anything better to do - like STUDY and do their homework?? Parents - your tuition dollars at work!!! :rolleyes:

one thing i disliked about that article i posted was that the writer/poster was implying that we ought to dismiss something that is just deemed 'cruel' bullying like the teasing, name-calling, over the violent effects of bullying.

bullying is still bullying- no matter what shape or form it is in. calling someone 'fat', 'ugly', 'stupid', and other worse names is still just as say bad filming/recording footage on video and posting it on the internet. it's heinous and deprived.

the emotional effects, scars of bullying have a much more longer, lasting damage that that of physical wounds which heal in a matter of weeks.

social scientists say it is no more extreme, nor more prevalent, than it was a half century ago.

i bet you those people never encountered or experienced bullying of any kind here. i'm sorry but that statement is wrong. bullying can still be extreme and be prevalent. unfortunately, those in schools, do not have the power to expel or kick those kids out.

I think they should be tried as adults, if a person can vote and serve in the armed forces at 18, then they are basically considered an ADULT.

If more teenagers were held accountable for their actions, many would probably think twice about pulling something like this. That's the problem with this country, teenangers are coddled too much

Well said Sonny!

the legal adult age in the U.K is 18 and over over here; therefore, if a pair or group of 18 yr olds had done what those people did, they would be arrested and tried in an adult court.

social scientists say it is no more extreme, nor more prevalent, than it was a half century ago.

i bet you those people never encountered or experienced bullying of any kind here. i'm sorry but that statement is wrong. bullying can still be extreme and be prevalent. unfortunately, those in schools, do not have the power to expel or kick those kids out.

they aren't saying that bullying isn't extreme or prevalent - just that it isn't any worse than it was 50 years ago, we just hear about it more now.

I think the families of the victims here should have a pretty strong case for a civil suit - it may not bring their son back, but it should help to make an example of bullies and send a message that even if they don't get tried as an adult they still stand to lose a great deal as a result of their actions.

they aren't saying that bullying isn't extreme or prevalent - just that it isn't any worse than it was 50 years ago, we just hear about it more now.

I think the families of the victims here should have a pretty strong case for a civil suit - it may not bring their son back, but it should help to make an example of bullies and send a message that even if they don't get tried as an adult they still stand to lose a great deal as a result of their actions.

Then again, 50 years ago there wasn't all the social networking, internet, Facebook, Twitter, cell/camera phones, etc. I can imagine how awful it must be to be bullied this days with all those gadgets at the bullies' disposal. I've never been gladder to be out of school than I am now!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

^ You're right. Bullying may indeed not be worse than it was years ago (it was pretty awful when I was in school in the 70s and 80s, that's for sure), but the prevailing technology makes the dissemination of embarressing information SO much easier and quicker, it seems like bullying has more far reaching consequences than it ever did before.

It's not that technology is bad, of course; it's just that our ability to use it responsibly and humanely isn't keeping up with its progress. Not a big surprise, though. It never really has. :(

Then again, 50 years ago there wasn't all the social networking, internet, Facebook, Twitter, cell/camera phones, etc. I can imagine how awful it must be to be bullied this days with all those gadgets at the bullies' disposal. I've never been gladder to be out of school than I am now!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
I don't miss school one bit. I could just imagine some of the things that would have been said about me on the internet if we had it back when I was in school. :ohno:

I don't miss school one bit. I could just imagine some of the things that would have been said about me on the internet if we had it back when I was in school. :ohno:

I feel the same way - and it makes my blood turn cold. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Count me in as part of the party! I'm a more recentish graduate than you guys (2003) buuuuuuut I graduated at a time when Myspace and Facebook didn't exist, cell phones most likely still cost money per text, etc etc etc. So I graduated juuuuuuuust in time! **** that ****. I'm glad I graduated when I did!!!!!!!!!!!!

No one on the left cares a wit about his kid, other than how his death might be used to advance their own agenda. And while a lot of kids kill themselves, there's only one reason why this particular case is getting the publicity that it is...it's not because the young man was being bullied. It's because he was gay.

So much for my commentary.

This was a good column at townhall.com (http://townhall.com/columnists/KevinMcCullough/2010/10/10/why_tyler_clementi_is_not_matthew_shepard/page/full/)

______________________________

Why Tyler Clementi is not Matthew Shepard
By Kevin McCullough
10/10/2010

From nearly the moment it was known that Tyler Clementi posted on facebook that he was going to jump off the George Washington bridge, American media, leftist politicians, and those who have reason to advance a non-traditional value system have attempted to "posterize" him into something that he was not.

This attempt to do so from the likes of U.S. Senator Robert Menendez to Dr. Phil has greater heartache to the Clementi family, and is likely to do far greater damage to legions of children yet to wrestle with the fluid issue of one's sexual practices, before settling into traditional sexual orthodoxy by about 98% of them. Even People magazine attempted to make a buck off of the story of the quiet violin player from Bergen County New Jersey.

Certainly groups of people who advocate for special considerations in public policy because they choose to engage in certain types of sexual behaviors have also taken up Tyler's image, name, and "narrative" as something to be used to slander God-fearing people with false accusations of bigotry, and because of the lack of moral backbone people from the church to the public square of cowed to the voices taking up the "cause."

Even when a group like "Love is Louder" attempted to designate its efforts to the issue of bullying and depression in children, others (many of them adults) who wished to make a statement about their sexual practices co-opted the facebook page to leave 9 minute videos to reminisce about how they found true "love at first innuendo."

The assumptions made on many of these broadcast, print, and web based reports follow the idea that Tyler felt so bullied by the roommate and girlfriend who evilly and immorally taped him, that he had no option but to turn to suicide. This has been quickly adopted as the authoritative version of what happened and the need for psychologically profiling both the bullies who did it and other youths who engage in homosexual behavior.

Of course there are other issues that could be examined. Perhaps Tyler had a genuinely sensitive conscience, perhaps he had great respect for both his family and his God, perhaps he felt ashamed of actions because he knew they were immoral. Hence a completely different narrative could be told, one that encourages young people towards moral choices.

Unfortunately the media and the radical activists feel otherwise and are now attempting to "Matthew Shepard" Clementi's story and reputation.

The truth is Tyler was doing something he did feel shame and embarrassment for. Just like the thirteen year old who gets caught with a stash of pornography in his bedroom, or the college student that gets his girlfriend pregnant, Tyler was seeking sexual satisfaction in secretive ways that he hoped certainly would never come to light.

The truth is many teens find themselves making decisions to engage sexually when they know it's dangerous to do so.

Yet deciding to do so anyway doesn't make the decision any less dangerous to do.

The activists would like laws to be passed so that condoms are handed out for free, that actions and behaviors are not just allowed but strongly encouraged, and that any and all objections to said behaviors be able to be silenced under some false charge of bigotry or hate-mongering.

Yet the truth is, loving parents, loving friends, and a compassionate society would focus their efforts on helping that student save sexual activity until they had reached a place in life where the responsibilities that would accompany that decision were well within reach.

From every public sign the Clementi family are just that. A family who loved Tyler, wanted him to know the best of life, and that started with knowing God and what His purposes were for him.

The tastelessness of programs like Ellen Degeneres and Dr. Phil, the disrespect of publications like People magazine and others who rushed to state a definitive narrative about Tyler Clementi betrays they wanton desire of an activist underbelly in the media to pass laws more akin to sexual anarchy, than that of genuine love for fellow man.

They should be ashamed of themselves.

Tyler Clementi was not Matthew Shepard, their lives had little resemblance to one another's - with the one exception of the radical anti-God activists who wish to use both their deaths to offer more destructive choices to future generations of young people, and to silence those who love them from ever speaking truth to them.

That truth being that they are made in the image of God, and while they sin--as do we all--that sin need not be what separates them from Him for eternity.

God's love is louder... and longer... and far more real, than activists, media, and lawmakers who pimp a child's death to force their agenda and accusations of false bigotry upon the world mourning the extinguished lamp of one of God's children.

______________________________

^ Thank you for sharing that essay. Very thoughtful and insightful.

^ Thank you for sharing that essay. Very thoughtful and insightful.

Thanks...yes, I thought it spelled out the points very well.

This story caught my attention immediately because I graduated from Rutgers myself.

After what happened to him, he probably realised how sick the world really is, and didn't want to live in it... Many police officers commit suicide after coming to the same realisation...

After what happened to him, he probably realised how sick the world really is, and didn't want to live in it... Many police officers commit suicide after coming to the same realisation...


That's a possible explanation... or, as the commentary said, he simply might have decided he didn't want to live with the public knowing about the decision he himself made.

Who knows? I'm sure that most decisions to commit suicide involve far more factors than we could ever hope to assemble in one "People" magazine article.

That's a possible explanation... or, as the commentary said, he simply might have decided he didn't want to live with the public knowing about the decision he himself made.

Who knows? I'm sure that most decisions to commit suicide involve far more factors than we could ever hope to assemble in one "People" magazine article.

You both bring up very valid points. Very true.