To me these are some of the saddest cases, where just a little more understanding or a different course of action by family or friends could've made it turn out way different. I'm sure their loved ones feel the same way in hindsight, so I'm not beating up on them or anything.

Gordon Page Jr - It's tempting to be mad at his dad for not opening the van door when he tried to get inside (I got the impression he felt really bad about it in the interview too), but it's really unfortunate he kept getting misdiagnosed until the last couple years we know he was alive. That was what bugged me more than anything.

His parents seemed very loving, although I can't help but think they should've taken him down to Florida with them and found a group home THERE. Interesting too that his youngerbrothers were never interviewed in the segment, only mentioned. By 1991 they were adults too, he could've even went to live close to one of them.

Kristi Krebs - This one is a little more complicated, but I feel bad because she seemed like a really nice girl, just who exploded when a bunch of things happened all at the same time, and maybe just couldn't handle it.

They don't allude to her having any mental breakdowns before the 1990 car fire, although maybe they were just minor or hadn't manifested themselves enough. I'm just going totally out on a limb here, but maybe she liked this married guy at work because he was nicer/more stable than the more immature d**chebag guys closer to her own age.

The second time I think she just snapped from being overworked (possibly she had low self esteem?) and the car fire 3 years later must've brought it all back. I don't think her parents did anything wrong per se, but it could've been as simple as needing a psychologist or just a caring person to talk with.

To me these are some of the saddest cases, where just a little more understanding or a different course of action by family or friends could've made it turn out way different. I'm sure their loved ones feel the same way in hindsight, so I'm not beating up on them or anything.

Gordon Page Jr - It's tempting to be mad at his dad for not opening the van door when he tried to get inside (I got the impression he felt really bad about it in the interview too), but it's really unfortunate he kept getting misdiagnosed until the last couple years we know he was alive. That was what bugged me more than anything.

His parents seemed very loving, although I can't help but think they should've taken him down to Florida with them and found a group home THERE. Interesting too that his youngerbrothers were never interviewed in the segment, only mentioned. By 1991 they were adults too, he could've even went to live close to one of them.

Kristi Krebs - This one is a little more complicated, but I feel bad because she seemed like a really nice girl, just who exploded when a bunch of things happened all at the same time, and maybe just couldn't handle it.

They don't allude to her having any mental breakdowns before the 1990 car fire, although maybe they were just minor or hadn't manifested themselves enough. I'm just going totally out on a limb here, but maybe she liked this married guy at work because he was nicer/more stable than the more immature d**chebag guys closer to her own age.

The second time I think she just snapped from being overworked (possibly she had low self esteem?) and the car fire 3 years later must've brought it all back. I don't think her parents did anything wrong per se, but it could've been as simple as needing a psychologist or just a caring person to talk with.

Angela Hammond because when she felt paranoid about the sketchy pick up truck she should have phoned 911 and said she didn't feel safe

^ Yeah, I thought of that too. She probably should've hung up with Rob and called, if it was available. In hindsight, she probably thought it wasn't any big deal (just a lost guy or at most a weirdo, but not a potential killer).

I wonder if they even had 911 then. I figure a small midwestern town probably wasn't too up to date technologically (heck, they might've still been stuck in 1980 back in 1991), and I'm pretty sure it wasn't totally common everywhere until about that time.

Justin Burgwinkel-I don't want to put any blame on his girlfriend, but I feel that she might have been able to convince him to tell him who called and said "the mission's off". If he had told her, it most likely would have solved his disapperance or have kept him from going AWOL altogether.

Adam Hecht-I don't condemn him for his selflessness in aiding a homeless person like he did, but I personally would NEVER let a homeless stranger into my home, much less house them. I feel Tony knows something about Adam's disappearance he is not telling. Perhaps if his family had convinced him that housing strange homeless people is bad news, he might not have disappeared.

Tammy Leppert-If her mother had stopped her from getting into the car with her friend (especially since she had bad feelings about Tammy doing that), she might still be around.

Patricia Meehan-What I would have done if I were in charge of the investigation is, after she disappeared, put all points bulletins around the whole country to look out for her. I would have also recommended putting "missing persons" posters at truck stations and stops around the country for people (especially truckers) to look out for her.

Charles Horvath-He should have been advised by his mother to not travel alone out in British Colombia, far away from people he could easily get help from (like his relatives), and far away from home.

^ Yeah, I get really frustrated when I watch that part of the Tammy Leppert segment with her mom on the phone (not her fault, but still). Well, the whole case was sad, and something clearly happened to her on the movie set, it's just a shame most people didn't seem to take her seriously and she didn't REALLY have anyone she could confide in.

Her friend Rick was a jerk for kicking her out of the car away from home too. Even if he was mad at her, he should've at least taken her back home or to a safe area.

Jacqueline Castaneda - She was the baby who was kidnapped after her mother, Olivia, decided to leave her alone for about a minute while she made use of an outhouse. So what if the outhouse is cramped and dirty inside? You don't EVER leave an infant completely alone in a crowded public place (they were at a flea market). And if there wasn't room in the outhouse for the three of them (she had her 2-year-old follow her into the outhouse), why not ask her husband or her mother (both of whom had accompanied her to the flea market) to keep an eye on the baby?

George Owens--I think that when he appeared at that ice cream store in Lobelville, TN, the cashier should have known that something was wrong. To me, it sounded as if he had suffered a stroke, or was in the early stages of Alzheimer's. In one breath, he is buying ice cream and cigars, and in the next, he is having a flashback to the past, and saying something that doesn't make sense. "I used to love to dance...but I can't find my wife." Perhaps if she asked him if he was sick or if he needed help, then maybe he would not have disappeared. I don't get why, out of all the things she would do, she would call the clinic to ask if his wife was there. I saw in the video segment where she deeply regretted not knowing enough to make a phone call.

George Owens--I think that when he appeared at that ice cream store in Lobelville, TN, the cashier should have known that something was wrong. To me, it sounded as if he had suffered a stroke, or was in the early stages of Alzheimer's. In one breath, he is buying ice cream and cigars, and in the next, he is having a flashback to the past, and saying something that doesn't make sense. "I used to love to dance...but I can't find my wife." Perhaps if she asked him if he was sick or if he needed help, then maybe he would not have disappeared. I don't get why, out of all the things she would do, she would call the clinic to ask if his wife was there. I saw in the video segment where she deeply regretted not knowing enough to make a phone call.

Yeah, that's the most heartbreaking part of the segment to me. I could tell the girl felt really bad about it in her interview, and we've all made mistakes... but everytime I watch the reenactment I'm practically screaming at the tv for her to call the police or otherwise get him help. Not just "She wasn't there, I'm sorry sir." Although she did seem pretty nice, and I'm sure alot of retail clerks (especially in a big city) wouldn't even do that or take the time to care today.

I'm of the idea he probably died that day or just a couple days afterwards. If he had a stroke and wasn't thinking rationally, I totally could believe him putting the firewood in the car himself, and probably wandered off and his body just never has been found over the years.

Just sad all around. :(

I also thought the same things about the Gordon Page case. Groups homes for disabled/autustic people exist in different states. The Page family could have found one Florida that could have been a good driving distance from there home. I worked with a woman whose autustic brother was placed in one many years ago and she said at the time he was placed there was only one group home for autustics at time and now years later there are four in the area.

There could have been good reasons to why the Pages didn't take Gordon with him maybe he wouldn't have qualified for services in Florida or maybe a similar reason like that. I wondered about the brothers but maybe they were uncomfortable on camera.

Even when I was much younger, I thought the Michaela Garecht abduction could have been easily prevented/avoided had the two girls gone back inside the store and asked for an adult to help them retrieve the scooter or at a minimum explained that the scooter had been moved.

Even when I was much younger, I thought the Michaela Garecht abduction could have been easily prevented/avoided had the two girls gone back inside the store and asked for an adult to help them retrieve the scooter or at a minimum explained that the scooter had been moved.

Ugh! I know what you mean. no offense to Michaela but I pretty much wanted to scream at my TV "C'mon kids! go ask for some help! don't walk over to get the stupid Scooter!" so frustrating. you think the girls would've known better. Stranger Danger and whatnot.

With almost every missing person case, you can say (with 20/20 hindsight), what the victim could have done to prevent it. IMO, this is nothing more then beating yourself (or them) up.

Ugh! I know what you mean. no offense to Michaela but I pretty much wanted to scream at my TV "C'mon kids! go ask for some help! don't walk over to get the stupid Scooter!" so frustrating. you think the girls would've known better. Stranger Danger and whatnot.
i know what you mean, but they also likely werent thinking too much at the time and likely thought maybe they put it there and likely didnt see any danger, BUT i still to this day cant stand this case. this sicko should be in prison for life.

With almost every missing person case, you can say (with 20/20 hindsight), what the victim could have done to prevent it. IMO, this is nothing more then beating yourself (or them) up.

I concur.

I concur.

I agree as well.

I do wonder though how many missing persons cases could have been avoided if cell phones were around back then like they are now. I mean, crime still happens with cell phones but you have to figure that some of these missing persons cases and crimes in general could have been prevented if they had been around.

Even when I was much younger, I thought the Michaela Garecht abduction could have been easily prevented/avoided had the two girls gone back inside the store and asked for an adult to help them retrieve the scooter or at a minimum explained that the scooter had been moved.

I think the abduction could have easily been prevented if an adult was watching them. Even in the 80's, even if this had been a small town (I don't think it was), who would let 2 kids (9, not sure if the other child was the same age) go alone to a store? I don't blame either kid for what happened to them, children don't have the mental capacity to understand dangers like this. I have a 9 year old niece and she doesn't have enough life experience to understand hidden dangers. Poor girl :(

My #1 choice is Gordon Page. I know his parents felt bad. I just don't get putting your child in a home/institution in a state you're no longer going to live in. That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. Even if he hadn't left - how often would they have been able to visit him?

If he's high-functioning, he might have a job and not want to find his family once he couldn't find them at their old house.

My #1 choice is Gordon Page. I know his parents felt bad. I just don't get putting your child in a home/institution in a state you're no longer going to live in. That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. Even if he hadn't left - how often would they have been able to visit him?

If he's high-functioning, he might have a job and not want to find his family once he couldn't find them at their old house.

I haven't watched that segment in awhile but I from what I remember his father had been trying to train him to have better skills with people because they wanted him to have a more functional life.

Well….visiting an ATM (alone!) in LA at night probably isn't the wisest thing to do. Matthew Chase's kidnapping and subsequent murder could've been easily prevented.

Definitely the Jacqueline Castanada kidnapping. I know port-a-potties are gross and cramped, but you can NEVER leave an infant alone in a crowded public place!

Also, to an extent the Pamela June Ray case. Obviously it's NOT Pamela's fault she was the victim of a crime, just that traveling late at night instead of during the day unfortunately puts a person at a much higher risk of being the victim of an at-fault person. She stopped to try and find a hotel late at night with two kids in the car while she went in and checked out hotels...fortunately nothing happened to the kids! It's an awful story and Pamela does not deserve any blame for the monster that did something to her, but at the same time when traveling, it's best to get in to a safe place before the sun goes down.

Finally, I agree with the person who mentioned Adam Hecht. There are so many other ways Adam could have helped the homeless or anyone who was not as privileged as he was, but unfortunately he chose the riskiest path (understandable, given his age and upbringing and possible desire to "rebel" against the Hechts' lifestyle). Like the others, he is NOT at fault for what some predator chose to do to him, just that his story highlights the dangers of "extremely high-risk" humanitarian endeavors.

Keri Lynn Nixon was definitely preventable. She left her house at 9:30 at night to go to the market for her parents, but did they really need the groceries that night? Couldn't they have asked her to wait until morning, when walking to the market and back would have been a lot safer?

Keri Lynn Nixon was definitely preventable. She left her house at 9:30 at night to go to the market for her parents, but did they really need the groceries that night? Couldn't they have asked her to wait until morning, when walking to the market and back would have been a lot safer?


All of the foul play missing persons cases could have prevented if people weren't jerks and didn't kidnap and kill people. That's the real bottom line.

All of the foul play missing persons cases could have prevented if people weren't jerks and didn't kidnap and kill people. That's the real bottom line.

THIS X 1000000000000 TRILLION

All of the foul play missing persons cases could have prevented if people weren't jerks and didn't kidnap and kill people. That's the real bottom line.




True, but at the same time I'm definitely not sending my kid out at night to buy some groceries. Or in the case of the Kathy Hobbs, l tbher walk around Las Vegas at night by herself

While I think she was killed, I'll say Anthonette Cayedito.

How crappy her mother was really pisses me off.

Angela Hammond. Was it really necessary to call Rob after you had just seen him that night? Once that creepy guy showed up, I wouldve said "Ok Rob gotta go this guy is suspicious". She stated he was suspicious and kept on talking to him. :confused:

Angela Hammond. Was it really necessary to call Rob after you had just seen him that night? Once that creepy guy showed up, I wouldve said "Ok Rob gotta go this guy is suspicious". She stated he was suspicious and kept on talking to him. :confused:

I never understood why a pregnant woman wouldn't make a break for her car after she seen him circling around the second time.

Hell, I'm a grown man and I would've went to my car if I seen a truck circling around.

All of the foul play missing persons cases could have prevented if people weren't jerks and didn't kidnap and kill people. That's the real bottom line.

Thank you. I couldn't agree more.

Many people have attempted to play armchair quarterback in regards to Keri Lynn Nixon making that trip and I've never quite understood it. She was 16, she was on summer vacation and her dad asked her to walk two whole blocks to pick up chips and pop at 9:30 p.m. in little Au Sable Forks, population 500. It's not like she was told to pick up cocaine in a dark alley in New York City at 2:00 in the morning.

What happened to her completely destroyed her father and he felt like he failed her for asking her to do something she had done hundreds of times before. It was horrible timing for her cross paths with that evil piece of crap. Her dad would never have asked to her to make that trip if he knew a random killer was out there ready to strike.

And just my humble opinion; I don't consider 9:30 to be 'late.' When I was 16, my curfew was 10:30 p.m., which I talked my way up to 11:00 during the summer.

Kathy Hobbs. Good GOD Kathy Hobbs.
Was it really a necessity to go get another paperback book late at night, and alone? Couldn't she have waited until the next day? And the whole thing about predicting death. Sham? Or psychologist appointment in the making?

This thread is just a metric ton of victim blaming.

If teenage girls and women never went anywhere alone and/or bolted every time someone was creepy to them, we'd never leave the house.

Life is a calculated risk. Avoiding every single risk means not living.

Again, every single one of these could be prevented if people didn't think they had a right to autonomy over someone else's body. Don't rape. Don't kill. End of story.

This thread is just a metric ton of victim blaming.

If teenage girls and women never went anywhere alone and/or bolted every time someone was creepy to them, we'd never leave the house.

Life is a calculated risk. Avoiding every single risk means not living.

Again, every single one of these could be prevented if people didn't think they had a right to autonomy over someone else's body. Don't rape. Don't kill. End of story.



It's not victim blaming.



I'm just saying if I was a parent I wouldn't let my kid out at night by herself, especially in a place like Las Vegas. I would do that whether i had a son or daughter

All of the foul play missing persons cases could have prevented if people weren't jerks and didn't kidnap and kill people. That's the real bottom line.
Absolutely. Imagine what a wonderful place the world would be if this wasn't the case. Instead all of us, men and women, have to be cautious and fear risk of violence.

Back to the thread's questions, today's technology would have prevented a lot of UM crime. Cell phones to prevent creepy payphone use, internet to book hotel rooms (Pamela June Ray), pinging cell phones off towers, and so on. But even so, people still go missing despite the tech we have now. It's interesting to watch shows like Disappeared, which mostly profiles more recent cases, and see how different the investigations are today.

This thread is just a metric ton of victim blaming.

If teenage girls and women never went anywhere alone and/or bolted every time someone was creepy to them, we'd never leave the house.

Life is a calculated risk. Avoiding every single risk means not living.

Again, every single one of these could be prevented if people didn't think they had a right to autonomy over someone else's body. Don't rape. Don't kill. End of story.

It's not victim blaming, but some of it could've been prevented if smarter measures were taken, that's the point of this thread.

In the case of Angela Hammond, her kidnapping could've been prevented if she ran to her car, instead of telling her boyfriend over the phone how creeped out she was. She knew the guy was creepy, even before he parked because she even told Rob how creeped out she was because he kept circling around. Point being, I'm not blaming her for being kidnapped, but she could've easily prevented so by doing something smarter.

I'm not angry at a teenage girl who was grabbed in the middle of the night while walking to the store, she did nothing wrong, and it's possible that she didn't see anyone coming. That's not what this thread is about. It's about people who could've avoided something because they seen it beforehand i.e. Angela Hammond.

Yes, life is a calculated risk, however in some scenarios exercising common sense, and caution can lower those risks.

Today's technology could have prevented some of the missing persons cases but at the same time, it's also used as an even bigger aid for kidnappers to lure victims.

Her name slipped my mind but she was kidnapped from a car wash in Austin I believe. Is it really necessary to wash your car that late? Things like that can wait till the next day when the sun is out & more ppl are around.

Her name slipped my mind but she was kidnapped from a car wash in Austin I believe. Is it really necessary to wash your car that late? Things like that can wait till the next day when the sun is out & more ppl are around.

Colleen Reed. I drive right by that car wash regularly to get downtown. It's still there, under new management. It's impossible not to think about it when I drive by it.

That story dominated local news at the time; Austin was a much smaller city back then.

Colleen Reed was abducted from the car wash at 8:45 p.m.

I'm not trying to be a jerk but do some of you people barricade yourselves in your homes at 6 p.m. and not dare step outside until the sun rises? I understand it's important to be aware of your surroundings, be cautious and make smart decisions to the best of your ability, but come on. It's not like she was out at 2:00 in the morning at a completely secluded spot.

It was a horrible tragedy what happened to her but she was in a residential neighborhood at not that late of an hour where she apparently felt safe enough to wash her car after a long day of errands. It's like asking her to be psychic, to know in this one instance out of a million where she would happen to be within shouting distance of a serial killer.

Colleen Reed was abducted from the car wash at 8:45 p.m.

I'm not trying to be a jerk but do some of you people barricade yourselves in your homes at 6 p.m. and not dare step outside until the sun rises? I understand it's important to be aware of your surroundings, be cautious and make smart decisions to the best of your ability, but come on. It's not like she was out at 2:00 in the morning at a completely secluded spot.

It was a horrible tragedy what happened to her but she was in a residential neighborhood at not that late of an hour where she apparently felt safe enough to wash her car after a long day of errands. It's like asking her to be psychic, to know in this one instance out of a million where she would happen to be within shouting distance of a serial killer.

Amen.

Colleen Reed was abducted from the car wash at 8:45 p.m.

I'm not trying to be a jerk but do some of you people barricade yourselves in your homes at 6 p.m. and not dare step outside until the sun rises?

Nope. In fact, I remember washing the POS truck I had as a teenager at the exact same car wash after dark.

Colleen Reed was abducted from the car wash at 8:45 p.m.

I'm not trying to be a jerk but do some of you people barricade yourselves in your homes at 6 p.m. and not dare step outside until the sun rises? I understand it's important to be aware of your surroundings, be cautious and make smart decisions to the best of your ability, but come on. It's not like she was out at 2:00 in the morning at a completely secluded spot.

It was a horrible tragedy what happened to her but she was in a residential neighborhood at not that late of an hour where she apparently felt safe enough to wash her car after a long day of errands. It's like asking her to be psychic, to know in this one instance out of a million where she would happen to be within shouting distance of a serial killer.

Well put

Colleen Reed was abducted from the car wash at 8:45 p.m.

I'm not trying to be a jerk but do some of you people barricade yourselves in your homes at 6 p.m. and not dare step outside until the sun rises? I understand it's important to be aware of your surroundings, be cautious and make smart decisions to the best of your ability, but come on. It's not like she was out at 2:00 in the morning at a completely secluded spot.

It was a horrible tragedy what happened to her but she was in a residential neighborhood at not that late of an hour where she apparently felt safe enough to wash her car after a long day of errands. It's like asking her to be psychic, to know in this one instance out of a million where she would happen to be within shouting distance of a serial killer.

When I was in my late teens and early twenties, I had a job working at the movie theater nights. Wouldn't get off until around 12:30am most nights and on weeks where we had long movies, it wouldn't be until around 1 or so.

Totally washed my car at this time of night because 1) I didn't think about it and 2) it was a time when I *could* wash my car. It used to drive my mother nuts that I didn't come straight home and go to bed. It wasn't the way my body was wired then, unfortunately. In those days, it was very common for me to grab food at the 24-hr grocery store on the way home, stop at the 24-hr Wal-Mart and run an errand, and THEN go home, make food, watch TV, and go to sleep around 6-7 a.m....

I don't even have close to the same schedule anymore and I wouldn't hesitate to wash my car at 8:45pm...

When I was in my late teens and early twenties, I had a job working at the movie theater nights. Wouldn't get off until around 12:30am most nights and on weeks where we had long movies, it wouldn't be until around 1 or so.

Totally washed my car at this time of night because 1) I didn't think about it and 2) it was a time when I *could* wash my car. It used to drive my mother nuts that I didn't come straight home and go to bed. It wasn't the way my body was wired then, unfortunately. In those days, it was very common for me to grab food at the 24-hr grocery store on the way home, stop at the 24-hr Wal-Mart and run an errand, and THEN go home, make food, watch TV, and go to sleep around 6-7 a.m....

I don't even have close to the same schedule anymore and I wouldn't hesitate to wash my car at 8:45pm...

Your teen years sound exactly like mine, I even had the movie theater job.

This thread is just a metric ton of victim blaming.

If teenage girls and women never went anywhere alone and/or bolted every time someone was creepy to them, we'd never leave the house.

Life is a calculated risk. Avoiding every single risk means not living.

Again, every single one of these could be prevented if people didn't think they had a right to autonomy over someone else's body. Don't rape. Don't kill. End of story.

Excellent advice for us all Necco! In fact reading some of the posts in this thread have reminded me of some of the supremely stupid crap that I pulled when I was young and bulletproof that could have easily turned into my very own UM segment. The more I think about it, it's only by sheer luck that I'm still around and kicking.

I agree with freakbook. Its not victim blaming. Victim blaming is different. Its like saying Colleen Reed deserved to get stabbed because she disobeyed the carjacker and drove straight to crash it.

We can't bring these people back, and we can go back and forth all day with "oh tho and that oh I should have could have would have"
Hell, Elizabeth Smart's abductor was able to get inside the house after stalking it repeatedly and getting through a window (I believe the mother had peeled potatoes or something ans forgotten to close it)