Putting politics aside, does anybody feel Mike was just as dumb and ignorant as Archie was....just in a different kind of way?

ABSOLUTELY!! He had his head so far up his ass with his ideas. He was dumber then Archie could have ever been. Archie probably felt the way he did from Life's experiences where as the meathead had no clue about life at all. He showed Archie nothing but disrespect while mootching off him for the 5 or so years they lived under his roof. I have to wonder why Archie never popped him in his fat ugly mouth. IMO, he was a lazy scumbag mootch!

I think Mike was obviously more educated and open minded that Archie, and it was obvious that Lear intended for Mike to be on the "right' side of the argument most (but not ALL) of the time.

Where Lear evened things out was with Mike's dependent status, which mirrored the entire generational conflict he was trying to convey. Whereas many of Archie's views may have been outdated, he represented the reality of a world where you had to work to survive and to fight to protect yourself, while Mike kind of took it for granted that someone (Archie in this case) would be there to finance the construction of his "dream world", i.e. college then liberal career.

I don't think Mike got quite as much scrutiny on the show because Lear was trying to cast light on and satirize Archie's Old World values, not Mike's. Lear did have affection for Archie, though; that much was obvious in the way he delved into Archie's past and showed why he felt the way he did and in the way he showed Archie as a basically decent and caring father and husband (though obviously flawed, too).

For a show that is concentrating on satirizing liberal views, I'd check out "King of the Hill". Judge is really honing in on the absurdity of political correctness in that wonderful show and I really find it to be the modern AITF (which is very high praise from me).

I'm not sure if Mike was dumber than Archie but he certainly was a lot more hypocritical. Mike liked to portray himself as this open-minded super duper liberal guy (sorry don't mean to go O/T into politics a bit but this was a BIG PART of Michael's personality and you can't totally discount it) But just disagree with him, and you have a guy as closed-minded as they come, not-so-subtly hidden behind huges amounts of smugness.

One thing for sure, Michael was nowheres near as smart as he thought he was. (Or should that be mature - remember that board game episode AND ALSO the ep where the two black robbers came and in their repartee point out that Mike can be just as full of sh*t and out of touch as Archie )

I'm not sure if Mike was dumber than Archie but he certainly was a lot more hypocritical. Mike liked to portray himself as this open-minded super duper liberal guy (sorry don't mean to go O/T into politics a bit but this was a BIG PART of Michael's personality and you can't totally discount it) But just disagree with him, and you have a guy as closed-minded as they come, not-so-subtly hidden behind huges amounts of smugness.

One thing for sure, Michael was nowheres near as smart as he thought he was. (Or should that be mature - remember that board game episode AND ALSO the ep where the two black robbers came and in their repartee point out that Mike can be just as full of sh*t and out of touch as Archie )

I think I may have used the wrong word to describe Mike. Instead of dumb, maybe I should have said he's one of those "educated idiots" and yes Hypocritcal beyond belief! That board game episode you speak about really brought out his immaturity and big mouth! That's a typical liberal's behavior though and had he worked as hard as he ran that mouth of his then he would have been a respected member of society.

I'm not sure if Mike was dumber than Archie but he certainly was a lot more hypocritical.
BINGO!! Archie may have been a lot of things, but a hypocrite wasn't one of them.

I'm not sure if Mike was dumber than Archie but he certainly was a lot more hypocritical. Mike liked to portray himself as this open-minded super duper liberal guy (sorry don't mean to go O/T into politics a bit but this was a BIG PART of Michael's personality and you can't totally discount it) But just disagree with him, and you have a guy as closed-minded as they come, not-so-subtly hidden behind huges amounts of smugness.

One thing for sure, Michael was nowheres near as smart as he thought he was. (Or should that be mature - remember that board game episode AND ALSO the ep where the two black robbers came and in their repartee point out that Mike can be just as full of sh*t and out of touch as Archie )i watched the borad game ep on dvd the other night and i couldnt agree more with what you said about mike

Personally I thought Mike was closed minded and opinionated. You can be smart and educated without having to popoff and showoff everytime you have a need to feel inferior. I find him to be nerve grating and a know-it-all. The episode with Mike's college friend playing chess was good and it showed what an idiot he was and Gloria slammed him good. His treatment of Gloria as though she is stupid was maddening to watch. She may be a high school graduate but she had far more common sense than Mike.

I think Mike was obviously more educated and open minded that Archie, and it was obvious that Lear intended for Mike to be on the "right' side of the argument most (but not ALL) of the time.

Where Lear evened things out was with Mike's dependent status, which mirrored the entire generational conflict he was trying to convey. Whereas many of Archie's views may have been outdated, he represented the reality of a world where you had to work to survive and to fight to protect yourself, while Mike kind of took it for granted that someone (Archie in this case) would be there to finance the construction of his "dream world", i.e. college then liberal career.

I don't think Mike got quite as much scrutiny on the show because Lear was trying to cast light on and satirize Archie's Old World values, not Mike's. Lear did have affection for Archie, though; that much was obvious in the way he delved into Archie's past and showed why he felt the way he did and in the way he showed Archie as a basically decent and caring father and husband (though obviously flawed, too).

For a show that is concentrating on satirizing liberal views, I'd check out "King of the Hill". Judge is really honing in on the absurdity of political correctness in that wonderful show and I really find it to be the modern AITF (which is very high praise from me).

In my opinion, Michael's liberalism and education shut him off from the real life experiences that Archie went through. Archie's opinions were not always correct, but they were based on his life experiences; whereas Michael's were based on his education.

Michael wanted the world to unite and solve their problems, whereas Archie was worried about doing what needed done to help his family survive. Honestly, Michael seemed like a smug jerk to me and I was never able to relate to him.

I just found this...are we sure Archie didn't write it? Does Rob Reiner know about this??? :crazy: :lol:

Personally I thought Mike was closed minded and opinionated. You can be smart and educated without having to popoff and showoff everytime you have a need to feel inferior. I find him to be nerve grating and a know-it-all. The episode with Mike's college friend playing chess was good and it showed what an idiot he was and Gloria slammed him good. His treatment of Gloria as though she is stupid was maddening to watch. She may be a high school graduate but she had far more common sense than Mike.

In some respects Edith too. As I reflect back on the shows, it occurs to me that Edith had a VERY HIGH EQ (emotional quotient) - of all the characters, when it comes to dealing with sensitive issues or the human feelings, she is the wisest. Like:

*when she breaks up that terrible fight Mike and Gloria had in one episode (have to look it up)
*the kindness, sense of fairness and decency she shows to her Cousin Liz's SO
*knowing when to stand up to Archie, And on those rare instances when she does, SHE WINS the fight (ex: their 25th anniversary & the ep where she slaps Archie for gambling)

I just found this...are we sure Archie didn't write it? Does Rob Reiner know about this??? :crazy: :lol:

I love it...dead from the inspection chart up LOL!!! (hee hee)