Season five kicked off on ALN yesterday (June 2), and by rewatching it once again (haven't seen it in ages) you can see the tracks are laid out in front for this show to die off quickly. (The fact that even CBS gave it the 'graveyard slot' of Saturday/8PM in September, 1978 confirms this.)

The season starts with 'Pop' missing on his birthday - turns out he's been missing for over two months, according to mother Ida, and neither daughter noticed, and Ida kept it a secret.

Huh?

Is this the same Rhoda, Brenda and Ida from season 1 and 2?

'Pops' wanted to go it alone before his 60th Birthday, so off to Florida he went. We're introduced to a 'new' Ida nudging the single life once again....and we're left with a tired show in which the actors are "phoning in" their performances as the clock is ticking.

Signs of it's demise were evident in the second half of Season 4 - "home movies", "stuck in a bathroom", and the season ending two-parter "stranded at a closed restaurant". The writers had no interest in keeping the show going as ratings were dropping, and it seems the cast didn't either.

The show stuck it out for nine eps until CBS decided to put their loyal viewers out of it's misery (December 9, 1978) and appropriately canceled it. The four unaired eps (which has since aired in syndication) only showed more wear and tear on the writers and the cast.

CBS 'summer' plans for a spin-off called "Brenda" (Julie Kavner) in mid-season never materialized, either.

At least the theme music was lively and upbeat - probably the best of the five seasons.

I did like the theme music in the last seasons

IMO, the signs of the demise of this show were evident before the middle of the third season. The jump-the-shark moment came the first time we ever saw Johnny Venture. The beginning of the 3rd season covered some interesting territory with Rhoda and Joe's separation, but every time it deviated to other subject matter beyond Joe, it was boring. And the fourth season, other than that so-so episode where Ida returned, was just dreadful. I've sat through every one of those episodes (not sure why), and none of them produced a single laugh.

You mention the terrible home movies episode. That was a perfect example of the writers having NO ideas to put life back into this show. I've been in situations where I've been forced to watch a friends' home movies, and all I wanted to do was make a quick escape. I felt the same way sitting and watching the Morgenstern's home movies. Turn off the projector, please! That episode also firmly cemented the disturbing Twilight Zonish vanishing of Rhoda's kid sister, Debbie.

Among the other dreadful season four episodes were the one where Rhoda spends a rainy evening hanging out alone in a coffee shop. It would have been just as interesting watching Rhoda sleep for half an hour. Watching these episodes, it's hard to believe this series had any connection to The Mary Tyler Moore Show.

You mention the improbability of Rhoda's father running away from home at the start of the fifth season. There were many moments as well throughout the fourth season where I felt the behavior of Rhoda and family was out of character. And the Ida character had become a caricature, with terribly predictable lines, she just wasn't funny anymore. All the spark the series had in the first two seasons was completely extinguished before the 4th season even began. I miss Joe!

As for the theme music, I really liked the fourth season variation (my favorite); the fifth season, not so much.

An interesting thing: just about the time Rhoda finally signed off, ABC introduced a new sitcom, Angie, that seemed to be an attempt at recreating the romance and energy Rhoda had early on. Unfortunately, Angie was plagued by low-brow scripts that never met the level of sophistication and truthfulness Rhoda had during its early days.

Season five kicked off on ALN yesterday (June 2), and by rewatching it once again (haven't seen it in ages) you can see the tracks are laid out in front for this show to die off quickly. (The fact that even CBS gave it the 'graveyard slot' of Saturday/8PM in September, 1978 confirms this.)

The season starts with 'Pop' missing on his birthday - turns out he's been missing for over two months, according to mother Ida, and neither daughter noticed, and Ida kept it a secret.

Huh?

Is this the same Rhoda, Brenda and Ida from season 1 and 2?

'Pops' wanted to go it alone before his 60th Birthday, so off to Florida he went. We're introduced to a 'new' Ida nudging the single life once again....and we're left with a tired show in which the actors are "phoning in" their performances as the clock is ticking.

Signs of it's demise were evident in the second half of Season 4 - "home movies", "stuck in a bathroom", and the season ending two-parter "stranded at a closed restaurant". The writers had no interest in keeping the show going as ratings were dropping, and it seems the cast didn't either.

The show stuck it out for nine eps until CBS decided to put their loyal viewers out of it's misery (December 9, 1978) and appropriately canceled it. The four unaired eps (which has since aired in syndication) only showed more wear and tear on the writers and the cast.

CBS 'summer' plans for a spin-off called "Brenda" (Julie Kavner) in mid-season never materialized, either.

At least the theme music was lively and upbeat - probably the best of the five seasons.

Yes it is sad to see a great show like Rhoda start to go dowhill in terms of scripts but the cast were still delivering.
I can see why they split Rhoda and Joe up but as we know,this was never popular with viewers.

If they were gonna make Rhoda single again,why get rid of the very funny Mryna after season2?,be nice to see have seen Susie again too.

I actually liked Johnny Venture,I like the episode where he's down on his luck and we start to see the real guy under the flashy teeth and jewellery.

The decision to put Rhoda in the custom hire shop was a bad idea,giving her a Lou Grant clone boss bad too although I liked the Actor who played him.

I really didn't like Benny,Brenda's boyfriend,found him boring and I didn't like the way,he spoke to Brenda,least we had Ron Silver's Gary until the end of season4.

Thanks God Nancy Walker and Harold Gould came back,the Morgenstern family was still working on screen,at least.

I think S3 was when the writers needed to really set the series apart from the first two seasons of 'married Rhoda'. So they gave her a new apartmemnt (good idea), new cast (Gary - good, Sally - bad, Benny - bad), new boyfriend (Johnny Venture - bad), new job (costume shop - bad). Yet, S3 chugged along because some of the storylines were still interesting.


By Season 4, the characters of Ida and Martin were incomplete. It was not the same couple we were first introduced to years ago. It was two characters trying to make the best of bad scripts and lame jokes.

By Season 5, it hit an all-time low. Bad scripts, bad jokes, bad storylines....uninteresting characters. It was time for them to go.

I agree with all of your comments there,Rhoda's new job didn't appear until season4 though,also the dull Benny appeared in season4.

The later Rhoda seemed to deal with situations rather than people,which The Mary Tyler Moore and early Rhoda did so well.

I remember watching Rhoda every week when it first came on. It was one of my favorite shows. I stopped watching after they split Rhoda and Joe up. It wasn't the same show anymore. I guess the writers wanted to make the show more like the MTM show but they failed. Ater Nancy Walker left, it got really bad. I've tried to watch the last few seasons in syndication but I've never got through them.

I think S3 was when the writers needed to really set the series apart from the first two seasons of 'married Rhoda'. So they gave her a new apartmemnt (good idea), new cast (Gary - good, Sally - bad, Benny - bad), new boyfriend (Johnny Venture - bad), new job (costume shop - bad). Yet, S3 chugged along because some of the storylines were still interesting.


By Season 4, the characters of Ida and Martin were incomplete. It was not the same couple we were first introduced to years ago. It was two characters trying to make the best of bad scripts and lame jokes.

By Season 5, it hit an all-time low. Bad scripts, bad jokes, bad storylines....uninteresting characters. It was time for them to go.

I agree with all of your points here, all of them. I watched this series during its original run and, like Clint Eastwood Fan, remember hating it after Rhoda and Joe broke up. Watching these episodes again all these years later, I feel the same way. By the fourth season, all the characters seemed to have turned into different people, or were engaging in uncharacteristic behavior just for the sake of a storyline. It had become a totally different show: once sparkling, sharp and witty, it had become dull and pointless. I understand the whole deal about needing to split Rhoda and Joe up because of the family hour preventing the writers from writing the mature relationship scripts they had intended, but after they did that, the Rhoda character just seemed lost and uninteresting. And she was surrounded by characters who really didn't seem like they belonged in her life. I guess we can blame CBS for this, for putting the show on during the family hour.

They should have brought Joe back in the 5th season and reconciled Joe and Rhoda. Maybe the show would have been good enough to finish the 5th season.

I wonder if seasons 4 & 5 will get released on dvd. It would make sense for Shout! to release it them together in one set.

The way they're firing through the seasons on DVD,I'd think so,hope we get season1 re-released,complete and remastered.

They should have brought Joe back in the 5th season and reconciled Joe and Rhoda. Maybe the show would have been good enough to finish the 5th season.

I so agree. That would have been a heck of a reunion and I'll be viewers would have loved it. And it could have put some life back into the show. That said, here's some stuff that was in the press around that time:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=788VAAAAIBAJ&sjid=-REEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6416,5787568&dq=rhoda+valerie+harper&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ZrssAAAAIBAJ&sjid=LRMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5456,3021285&dq=rhoda+valerie+harper&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=CYcsAAAAIBAJ&sjid=2foDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4498,479861&dq=rhoda+valerie+harper&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=SaUfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=PtYEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5012,963148&dq=rhoda+valerie+harper&hl=en

If Julie Kavner as Brenda did spin-off into a series, they should have considered calling the show something other than Brenda. In the early '70's you had Maude, Rhoda, Phyllis, Alice, and Angie. Another show named for a woman's name was just getting redundant.

Someone was telling me,the other year about the Rhoda spinoff set in San

Francisoc about Brenda,I had to said er that was Phyllis a spinoff from MTM!

I so agree. That would have been a heck of a reunion and I'll be viewers would have loved it. And it could have put some life back into the show. That said, here's some stuff that was in the press around that time:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=788VAAAAIBAJ&sjid=-REEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6416,5787568&dq=rhoda+valerie+harper&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ZrssAAAAIBAJ&sjid=LRMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5456,3021285&dq=rhoda+valerie+harper&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=CYcsAAAAIBAJ&sjid=2foDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4498,479861&dq=rhoda+valerie+harper&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=SaUfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=PtYEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5012,963148&dq=rhoda+valerie+harper&hl=en


Thank you so much for these articles. It's too bad CBS didn't air all 13 eps which were taped, dropping the show after airing number 9.

In one article, Harper says the scripts are better in S-5. What was she thinking? She also mentioned she expected CBS to drop them, since they ordered half a season. She was fine with it if they did drop her - and it seemed to show in her work.

I must correct some of my own posts Susie does appear in a season three episode and Benny nmakes his first appearance in season3,I said four.