April 8th,1979 - The last episode of "All In The Family" aired

Archie enlists Edith to help cook corned beef and cabbage for a St. Patrick's Day festival at Archie's Place. What Archie doesn't know is that Edith has come down with a bad case of phlebitis, and that she was told to stay off her feet. Edith doesn't want to tell Archie, afraid she'll let him down. Finally, Edith's phlebitis catches up with her, and she tells Archie she can't walk, and to call Dr. Shapiro. Originally, Shapiro is angry at Archie for apparently forcing Edith to work, but when he sees Archie didn't know about the illness, he has a crisis of conscience for yelling at him. Archie also is stunned, and comes upstairs. Archie can't believe that Edith would hide that from him, and questions her love for him. After Edith reassures him, Archie tells her he wants to be told next time when she isn't feeling well, then admits he loves her very much and that without her, he has nothing.

Interesting that this was the last original episode aired; I wonder if they knew at the time they'd be killing off Edith in the fall premiere of Archie's Place. It really adds a sense of poignancy to this episode (which I remember, by the way).

Though I maintain to this day that killing off Edith was a huge mistake (in fact, continuing the show without Mike and Gloria was crazy, oops, a huge miscalculation!), this did showcase the true love that each had for each other. I've seen articles that questioned Archie's character, but this episode conveyed how despite all of his obvious flaws, he truly loved this woman.

I really liked this episode for the same reasons. We really saw Archie's love for her. The man was brought to tears at the thought of losing her! I also agree that having Edith die was a bad choice, but was Jean leaving the show? If so, no one would have been able to replace her as Edith.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that Jean wanted off the show after the ninth season, and I also agree that recasting the role would have been a monstrous error.

Interesting that this was the last original episode aired; I wonder if they knew at the time they'd be killing off Edith in the fall premiere of Archie's Place.

Edith wasn't killed off on the premiere of Archie Bunker's Place -- she was killed off on the second season opener, which happened a year and a half after the final episode of AITF.

Jean appeared in a few season one episodes of ABP.

And while you may not agree with killing Edith off, what were they going to do? Have her divorce Archie? Always have her working at the Sunshine Home? Have her always visiting Mike and Gloria in California?

I think those would have been ridiculous alternatives.

And yes, I realize that you felt the show continuing without these characters was wrong, but obviously, CBS (and Carroll O' Connor) didn't want to let go of Archie. Ironic, considering how CBS dumped the show with no fanfare or finale in 1983.

But to each his/her own.;)

Edith wasn't killed off on the premiere of Archie Bunker's Place -- she was killed off on the second season opener, which happened a year and a half after the final episode of AITF.

Jean appeared in a few season one episodes of ABP.

And while you may not agree with killing Edith off, what were they going to do? Have her divorce Archie? Always have her working at the Sunshine Home? Have her always visiting Mike and Gloria in California?

I think those would have been ridiculous alternatives.

And yes, I realize that you felt the show continuing without these characters was wrong, but obviously, CBS (and Carroll O' Connor) didn't want to let go of Archie. Ironic, considering how CBS dumped the show with no fanfare or finale in 1983.

But to each his/her own.;)


Yes, forgive my error about the seasons. It's been quite a while.

CBS and even Carroll O'Connor are not omniscient, so I feel no hesitation in saying that the show, which I dearly loved, was mortally wounded by the loss of Mike and Gloria. As for "alternatives" to killing off Edith, the most logical one would have been to simply not go on without her. The almighty dollar rules but artistically, it's hard to argue that the show HAD to go on. AITF was NOT the story of Archie on his own; it was the story of a middle class family in the 70's and the cultural clashes that occurred therein. I'm completely aware that Archie was a massively popular character but that does not justify greenlighting ABP.

Did I hate ABP? No. It was a serviceable comedy for four years. But I wish it had not been the AITF coda; that should have been the tearful and climactic "The Stivics Move West".

But as you so accurately state, "to each his own".:cool:

All In The Family was a great show, a classic, a landmark show.

Archie Bunker's Place was a good show. That's it. And it doesn't hold up as well as it's predecessor.

Once Gloria and the Meathead were gone, the major source of conflict and comedy was gone. Nothing against Danielle Brisbois, but the addition of Stephanie in the 9th season was the cliche "let's add a cute kid to an aging show."

All Stephanie could do was muster some mild kiddie rebellion and stick her tongue out at Archie. Good for a reflexive laugh or two, but not the kind of riotous comedy that ensued when Archie and Mike mixed it up. Or Archie and Jefferson, etc.

Fortunately, when Archie Bunker's Place debuted in the fall of 1979, AITF went into syndication, thus ensuring it's immortality. Next year will be the 40th anniversary...and we're still talking about it.

All In The Family was a great show, a classic, a landmark show.

Archie Bunker's Place was a good show. That's it. And it doesn't hold up as well as it's predecessor.

Once Gloria and the Meathead were gone, the major source of conflict and comedy was gone. Nothing against Danielle Brisbois, but the addition of Stephanie in the 9th season was the cliche "let's add a cute kid to an aging show."

All Stephanie could do was muster some mild kiddie rebellion and stick her tongue out at Archie. Good for a reflexive laugh or two, but not the kind of riotous comedy that ensued when Archie and Mike mixed it up. Or Archie and Jefferson, etc.

Fortunately, when Archie Bunker's Place debuted in the fall of 1979, AITF went into syndication, thus ensuring it's immortality. Next year will be the 40th anniversary...and we're still talking about it.

Couldn't have said it better myself. ;)

Retro,

It's great that we can have differences of opinion on some things and yet be respectful of those differences.

And then find out we do agree on other aspects of it.

In reality, an opinion is just one person's view of something. It isn't necessarily right or wrong -- it just is.

Unfortunately, I know someone (in real life) who sees a differing opinion as wrong. If you don't agree with the show he likes, you're wrong. Almost like it's a personal thing, a badge of honor.:rolleyes:

Retro,

It's great that we can have differences of opinion on some things and yet be respectful of those differences.

And then find out we do agree on other aspects of it.

In reality, an opinion is just one person's view of something. It isn't necessarily right or wrong -- it just is.

Unfortunately, I know someone (in real life) who sees a differing opinion as wrong. If you don't agree with the show he likes, you're wrong. Almost like it's a personal thing, a badge of honor.:rolleyes:

That sounds like the type of person I try VERY hard to avoid, but seem to run into quite often.

IMO it's a sign of insecurity to be disrespectful of others' opinions. No one has a monopoly on the truth and anyone claiming so is either mad or a liar, or both.

The next time this someone asserts that his/her opinion is a FACT and not just an opinion, say "The only One in existence who is perfect is God. Are you God?" If they say "yes", they're just being stupid and if they say "no", then their argument is obviously just their opinion, not a fact and they'll know you got the better of them (though they probably won't admit it) :)

And what is this "real life" you speak of? :lol: ;)

That sounds like the type of person I try VERY hard to avoid, but seem to run into quite often.

IMO it's a sign of insecurity to be disrespectful of others' opinions. No one has a monopoly on the truth and anyone claiming so is either mad or a liar, or both.

The next time this someone asserts that his/her opinion is a FACT and not just an opinion, say "The only One in existence who is perfect is God. Are you God?" If they say "yes", they're just being stupid and if they say "no", then their argument is obviously just their opinion, not a fact and they'll know you got the better of them (though they probably won't admit it) :)

And what is this "real life" you speak of? :lol: ;)

Ironically, I've referred to this person as "The Only One" for nearly twenty years. It has nothing to do with him being God, but rather, that he's the Only One who knows about this, knows about that, etc. It's a long story.

It's not that he says his opinion is fact, it's the way he says it. I could confront him about this, but that would just make it worse. He likes to have the upper hand and it's always about being competitive.

I seem to recall either seeing or reading someplace that there were fans who would show up for filming day and someone would always inquire about Jean and or Edith. Lear knew that this was a problematic situation if they were to continue (and we know they did) and always having to answer the question that was always on people's minds. I also seem to remember Lear called Jean and told her the situation. He said that they were thinking of "killing her character off"

Jean responded, Norm she's just a character, she's not a "real" person. On the night the episode aired I think Jean mentions that she checked herself in a hotel room and watched the episode unfold.

I'll try to post if I find the original article and or see the program again that had this information.

I was pleased to know that the love between them as people never diminished. They were together on the Donny and Marie talk show as a surprise to Carroll when he was promoting what was to be his final film, Return To Me.

Have a great day everyone,

When Edith was killed off on ABP, Jean Stapleton matter of factly said something like "You can't kill an idea."

I think she fully supported killing off Edith.

Like I said many times before, it would have been pretty ridiculous if Edith was always working at the Sunshine home or just existed as a character on the other end of the line talking to Archie at the bar, yet we never get to hear her.

But once Edith was gone, it really hurt the show. Archie didn't have Gloria, The Meathead or his wife to bounce off of anymore.

The show wasn't bad or anything, but it was merely a good show instead of a great show.

I remember Norman Lear discussing the death of Edith Bunker, and how he talked with Jean Stapleton about it. Jean said something like "she's on a tv character, she isn't real", and Lear, without missing a beat said to Jean "She's real to me."

I too echo the sentiments that when Mike & Gloria moved to California, the series should have ended right then and there, and maybe have an occasional reunion show instead of prolonging the agony.