In Part 2 of Sherman Hemsley's Interview on Youtube he was asked why Amen was cancelled and said

"Because it was Johnny Carson Show and since he was leaving NBC that year he just took everything with him included the show"


Learn something new everyday-lol

Oh, wow! I had no idea. Thank you for posting.

Seriously? Wow! They could have at least let the show go for one more year. It could have left in 1992 with Carson.

I have to disagree there. I think the show had run its course and the ideas were running dry. I think another season would've been a disaster. Then again, your mileage may vary!!

I have to disagree there. I think the show had run its course and the ideas were running dry. I think another season would've been a disaster. Then again, your mileage may vary!!



I'm surprised that there was never a reunion of the show, where all the former cast members would reunite. A few of them are dead now though - the one who played Rolley and the one who played his newly-wed wife.

I have to disagree there. I think the show had run its course and the ideas were running dry. I think another season would've been a disaster. Then again, your mileage may vary!!

I thought after the 3rd or 4th season, Amen was running a tad dry, IMO. Especially after Reuben Gregory married Thelma.

I thought after the 3rd or 4th season, Amen was running a tad dry, IMO. Especially after Reuben Gregory married Thelma.

Agreed. They should've waited until the series finale to marry them off. But then again, I never bought Thelma and Reuben as a couple. They had no chemistry, she was too whiny and clingy, and they just didn't seem to have anything in common. Then again, that's MY opinion.

there was a reunion of sorts on the TV Land special about Sherman Hemsley. People from "Amen" came to visit him at his home including Clifton Davis, Anna Maria Horsford and the lady who played Cassietta. Also Marla Gibbs, the second Lionel, the guy who played the doorman and I believe Berlinda Tolbert were there as well. They all acted like they were so glad to see each other and it was great to see all of them. You might be able to view "Living In TVLand" on the TvLand website, I don't know. Great for the Jeffersons/Amen fan.:)

^ Never heard of it, but it sounds like a lot of fun. Maybe it's on YouTube or something.

^ Never heard of it, but it sounds like a lot of fun. Maybe it's on YouTube or something.
It was on several years ago. They had a similar show about Dick Van Patten. Hope you catch it, I really enjoyed it.:)

^ Never heard of it, but it sounds like a lot of fun. Maybe it's on YouTube or something.
I just dug deeper into this thread and saw where another poster said it was on TVLand on April 26, 2006- five years ago. Hope you can find it somewhere, hope this helps.

Agreed. They should've waited until the series finale to marry them off. But then again, I never bought Thelma and Reuben as a couple. They had no chemistry, she was too whiny and clingy, and they just didn't seem to have anything in common. Then again, that's MY opinion.



She also couldn't cook either.

Really? It was Johnny Carson's idea to have the show killed because of his departure on "The Tonight Show"?

She also couldn't cook either.

Neither could Thelma from Good Times. Maybe it's the name. :eek: :lol:

I just dug deeper into this thread and saw where another poster said it was on TVLand on April 26, 2006- five years ago. Hope you can find it somewhere, hope this helps.

Thanks!! :D

She also couldn't cook either.

Like the episode where she ried to cook for a group of people and when she tried to cook the dough in the kitchen, whole kitchen got filled up with DOUGH! :lol:

...was created in 1980 as part of Johnny's new, extended contract for "THE TONIGHT SHOW"- his company developed and produced several prime-time shows for NBC. Very few of them were successful {including "TEACHERS ONLY", starring Lynn Redgrave and Norman Fell; "CASSIE AND COMPANY", a detective drama featuring Angie Dickinson (that was the result of a rejected sitcom pilot she did for Carson- she fulfilled her contract by filming 12 episodes of "CASSIE", and that was it); "LEWIS & CLARK", starring Gabe Kaplan and Guich Koock; and "MR. PRESIDENT" [for FOX], a "dramedy" starring George C. Scott}. The only Carson-produced shows that lasted more than a season were "TV'S BLOOPERS & PRACTICAL JOKES", co-produced by Dick Clark, and fronted by him and Ed McMahon {"representing" Johnny's half of the venture}..and "AMEN". In fact, that was the most successful of ALL the Carson shows, lasting six seasons.

Probably because Johnny was leaving "THE TONIGHT SHOW" in 1992, he wanted "AMEN" off the air before he left. I think it was also due to the fact that Carson Productions, Inc. was basically "rudderless" after Henry "Bombastic" Buskin, Johnny's attorney and close friend, was fired by him in 1988- he controlled the company. According to Lawrence Leamer's 1989 biography of Johnny, "King of the Night", Bushkin mismanaged Carson Productions, keeping it from producing more successful programming, and installing key executives he personally favored [and it was said he had ongoing disagreements with Ed. Weinberger, "AMEN"''s producer]. After "AMEN" ended, Carson Productions, Inc. never produced another series.

:tv:

...was created in 1980 as part of Johnny's new, extended contract for "THE TONIGHT SHOW"- his company developed and produced several prime-time shows for NBC. Very few of them were successful {including "TEACHERS ONLY", starring Lynn Redgrave and Norman Fell; "CASSIE AND COMPANY", a detective drama featuring Angie Dickinson (that was the result of a rejected sitcom pilot she did for Carson- she fulfilled her contract by filming 12 episodes of "CASSIE", and that was it); "LEWIS & CLARK", starring Gabe Kaplan and Guich Koock; and "MR. PRESIDENT" [for FOX], a "dramedy" starring George C. Scott}. The only Carson-produced shows that lasted more than a season were "TV'S BLOOPERS & PRACTICAL JOKES", co-produced by Dick Clark, and fronted by him and Ed McMahon {"representing" Johnny's half of the venture}..and "AMEN". In fact, that was the most successful of ALL the Carson shows, lasting six seasons.

Probably because Johnny was leaving "THE TONIGHT SHOW" in 1992, he wanted "AMEN" off the air before he left. I think it was also due to the fact that Carson Productions, Inc. was basically "rudderless" after Henry "Bombastic" Buskin, Johnny's attorney and close friend, was fired by him in 1988- he controlled the company. According to Lawrence Leamer's 1989 biography of Johnny, "King of the Night", Bushkin mismanaged Carson Productions, keeping it from producing more successful programming, and installing key executives he personally favored [and it was said he had ongoing disagreements with Ed. Weinberger, "AMEN"''s producer]. After "AMEN" ended, Carson Productions, Inc. never produced another series.

:tv:

Thanks for posting. I noticed that Carson Productions never produced anything else that I watched. Sad to hear that it dissolved. I always thought Amen's ratings were declining and part of that was the terrible season five that 227 had.

In Part 2 of Sherman Hemsley's Interview on Youtube he was asked why Amen was cancelled and said

"Because it was Johnny Carson Show and since he was leaving NBC that year he just took everything with him included the show"


Learn something new everyday-lol


I think that is highly unlikely. I am certain even though Carson was leaving NBC he would have wanted even more episodes of a sitcom he was producing for syndication. I believe the show had ran its course. I remember the last year...the scripts were pretty dry to say the least.

...was created in 1980 as part of Johnny's new, extended contract for "THE TONIGHT SHOW"- his company developed and produced several prime-time shows for NBC. Very few of them were successful {including "TEACHERS ONLY", starring Lynn Redgrave and Norman Fell; "CASSIE AND COMPANY", a detective drama featuring Angie Dickinson (that was the result of a rejected sitcom pilot she did for Carson- she fulfilled her contract by filming 12 episodes of "CASSIE", and that was it); "LEWIS & CLARK", starring Gabe Kaplan and Guich Koock; and "MR. PRESIDENT" [for FOX], a "dramedy" starring George C. Scott}. The only Carson-produced shows that lasted more than a season were "TV'S BLOOPERS & PRACTICAL JOKES", co-produced by Dick Clark, and fronted by him and Ed McMahon {"representing" Johnny's half of the venture}..and "AMEN". In fact, that was the most successful of ALL the Carson shows, lasting six seasons.

Probably because Johnny was leaving "THE TONIGHT SHOW" in 1992, he wanted "AMEN" off the air before he left. I think it was also due to the fact that Carson Productions, Inc. was basically "rudderless" after Henry "Bombastic" Buskin, Johnny's attorney and close friend, was fired by him in 1988- he controlled the company. According to Lawrence Leamer's 1989 biography of Johnny, "King of the Night", Bushkin mismanaged Carson Productions, keeping it from producing more successful programming, and installing key executives he personally favored [and it was said he had ongoing disagreements with Ed. Weinberger, "AMEN"''s producer]. After "AMEN" ended, Carson Productions, Inc. never produced another series.

:tv:

What was that show that starred Lynda Carter of Wonder Woman and Loni Anderson of WKRP? I saw one ep. of it on Lifetime reruns once and I forgot it was also a Carson Production.

There is the old urban legend of the defunct series on BET named Screen Scene that NBC was cancelling one of the black shows in 1990 and it was a toss up between 227 and Amen. Marla Gibbs said a few years ago that she was anticipating a 6th season for 227 and it seemed like Amen was rapping itself up in 1990 as the last season the show felt like a spin-off of itself.

There is the old urban legend of the defunct series on BET named Screen Scene that NBC was cancelling one of the black shows in 1990 and it was a toss up between 227 and Amen. Marla Gibbs said a few years ago that she was anticipating a 6th season for 227 and it seemed like Amen was rapping itself up in 1990 as the last season the show felt like a spin-off of itself.

227 kind of jumped the shark in its last season w/ the departure of Jackee Harry (Sandra) and them bringing in way too many new characters to keep up w/ (presumably in hopes of replacing Sandra as the resident "breakout character").

What became the the final episode of Amen, ironically, served as well enough of a "series finale" (although I don't think that was the intention at the time), w/ Reuben and Thelma having their baby during the telethon. My point is that it seemed like a rather huge event (they even brought in James Brown for good measure) regardless of the actual plans or intent.

227 kind of jumped the shark in its last season w/ the departure of Jackee Harry (Sandra) and them bringing in way too many new characters to keep up w/ (presumably in hopes of replacing Sandra as the resident "breakout character").

What became the the final episode of Amen, ironically, served as well enough of a "series finale" (although I don't think that was the intention at the time), w/ Reuben and Thelma having their baby during the telethon. My point is that it seemed like a rather huge event (they even brought in James Brown for good measure) regardless of the actual plans or intent.

It was a good dual purpose episode that served well as a season and series finale. The show had ran its course at that point. Sherman stopped doing physical comedy at that point on the show, I am sure he was getting older as more zany storylines could have been made (would have been nice to see Sherman act with some open flame like his tie catching on fire or something; tackled by a football player or gunge with stuff) but I guess he was getting older and wanted to focus more on other parts of the show.

227 kind of jumped the shark in its last season w/ the departure of Jackee Harry (Sandra) and them bringing in way too many new characters to keep up w/ (presumably in hopes of replacing Sandra as the resident "breakout character").

What became the the final episode of Amen, ironically, served as well enough of a "series finale" (although I don't think that was the intention at the time), w/ Reuben and Thelma having their baby during the telethon. My point is that it seemed like a rather huge event (they even brought in James Brown for good measure) regardless of the actual plans or intent.
I thought that 227 had an OK season for season five. Changes happen. I did like the new characters. It could have opened the door too a few more seasons had it worked out.

I remember back in 1990 that the rumor was either 227 or Amen would be returning mid season. I was hoping 227 would. Amen was the one to come back and it was ok with me. I did enjoy season five. I also liked the cinematography along with the was the set was dressed. I could think of some other shows that were not the best during their final seasons but Amen was just fine IMHO.

I think Amen was cancelled at the right time. I'd have to see the last season to see if I'm right but you rather go out on top than stay and loose its luster.

I thought that 227 had an OK season for season five. Changes happen. I did like the new characters.

You've got to be kidding. Dillon was annoying, and Eva was a useless character and just an insult to that cast. The only okay one was Travis. Dillon's mother Millie played by Charlotte Rae was delightful though; it's a shame she didn't appear as a regular.

I didnt mind Season 5 of 227. Its tough to replace Sondra.

You've got to be kidding. Dillon was annoying, and Eva was a useless character and just an insult to that cast. The only okay one was Travis. Dillon's mother Millie played by Charlotte Rae was delightful though; it's a shame she didn't appear as a regular.

227 started losing steam after season 3. Amen was getting stale midway through season 4

Shows like "Amen" stayed on because they did well enough in the ratings to not get cancelled, and they just kind of stuck around. A show that was ok for something to watch for twenty minutes if you are bored, but nothing groundbreaking or fantastic. Something that floats around 25-30 out of 85 programs, with a built in audience who liked The Jeffersons and Sherman Helmsley.

Just one of those shows with the exception of a few people, probably got a shrug of that if told the show was cancelled.

You've got to be kidding. Dillon was annoying, and Eva was a useless character and just an insult to that cast. The only okay one was Travis. Dillon's mother Millie played by Charlotte Rae was delightful though; it's a shame she didn't appear as a regular.
No. I'm not kidding. Would you rather me lie? Season five is one of my favorites. No, things weren't perfect. Some episodes were not the greatest but there were still some great episodes. Some people may not like it while some, like myself, do.

227 started losing steam after season 3. Amen was getting stale midway through season 4

I actually like season three to five as favorites especially season four.

No. I'm not kidding. Would you rather me lie? Season five is one of my favorites. No, things weren't perfect. Some episodes were not the greatest but there were still some great episodes. Some people may not like it while some, like myself, do.

'Come The Revolution' in S5 was my favorite episode from that season. The dance-off between Calvin and Travis was classic.

I had the chance to binge-watch S5 of Amen and it's been years since I seen the episodes together like that. I caught them here and there when it was in syndication. The show definitely changed in the last season and you could tell that the Fresh Prince was ushering in a new era of NBC as they wanted more urban themes to capture younger people. Clarence So Fine was like Amen's answer to Will Smith and Deacon Frye was the proverbial Uncle Phil. MC Hammer even guest starred in that season. When you look at Amen in S1-S4, the church was the central focus of the show. In S5, it became more about the lives of Thelma, Rueben, Deacon, and Clarence. Cassietta left as she never had a storyline revolving around here and it seemed like no one noticed she was gone, lol.

Shows like Fresh Prince, A Different World, Blossom, In The House, Out All Night, Rhythm and Blues, Brotherly Love, and others were attempts to pull in young professionals and a few of them lasted a few seasons and others were short lived. This is when NBC and Fox began to fight over viewers.

In Part 2 of Sherman Hemsley's Interview on Youtube he was asked why Amen was cancelled and said

"Because it was Johnny Carson Show and since he was leaving NBC that year he just took everything with him included the show"


Learn something new everyday-lol

Apparently, Carson specifically stated that he wanted David Letterman for the Tonight Show spot on NBC. He was not fond of Jay Leno despite Leno's success on his off nights. Leno and his team essentially got Carson ousted from the show. He was supposed to retire in 1993 but NBC had him pushed out a year earlier. Carson was so devastated over how the network treated him that he refused to have anything to do with them ever again. He had a big production company that was producing shows for NBC (such as Amen), and he was supposed to do occasional shows for the network. He severed all ties with them after leaving.

Eh - not buying the Carson reason. If the show ratings were still really strong, they would have found a way to make it work. Instead, it was #60. It was going to be cancelled regardless of Carson’s status as late-night host. And Carson certainly wouldn’t have willingly put all those people out of work just to nurse a grudge, IMO.

Carson Productions wasn’t that big. They produced two TV successes: Amen and Bloopers. And several bombs. It was a vanity production plate; NBC wouldn’t have worked with them had Carson not been its late-night host. It was built into his deal with NBC that the network had to make a certain number of pilots with him.

And Carson certainly wouldn’t have willingly put all those people out of work just to nurse a grudge, IMO.

Melissa Rivers would perhaps tell you her mother may have something different to say.

Eh - not buying the Carson reason. If the show ratings were still really strong, they would have found a way to make it work. Instead, it was #60. It was going to be cancelled regardless of Carson’s status as late-night host. And Carson certainly wouldn’t have willingly put all those people out of work just to nurse a grudge, IMO.

Carson Productions wasn’t that big. They produced two TV successes: Amen and Bloopers. And several bombs. It was a vanity production plate; NBC wouldn’t have worked with them had Carson not been its late-night host. It was built into his deal with NBC that the network had to make a certain number of pilots with him.

I agree with TV Guy, all the evidence suggests the series had run its course and was cancelled because of declining ratings. If anything, it was probably given a 5th season to get the series to 100 episodes (finishing with 110 episodes), which is a magic number when it comes to syndication. In it's first two seasons, Amen occupied the 9:30 pm Saturday time slot, with top 5 smash "The Golden Girls" as the 9:00 pm lead in. The show did very well holding most of that series audience, but in season 3 the show was moved to 8:30, with the fading 227 as the 8:00 pm lead in, the Amen audience began to drop. Season 4 the bottom dropped out for both 227 and Amen, 227 was cancelled and Amen was renewed, but was not on the fall schedule. The series was slotted at 8pm when it finally returned in November, but the ratings continued downhill and the show was cancelled.

It's kind of surprising "227" and "Amen" started going down in the ratings in '87-'88, especially when they were paired up with each other for an hour block.

It's kind of surprising "227" and "Amen" started going down in the ratings in '87-'88, especially when they were paired up with each other for an hour block.

Amen had surprisingly good ratings to be a saturday night slot

Amen had surprisingly good ratings to be a saturday night slot

That shouldn't be surprising. Saturday night was a BIG TV night in the '80s, at least for NBC. popcorn::so

That shouldn't be surprising. Saturday night was a BIG TV night in the '80s, at least for NBC. popcorn::so

I think it mostly had to do with the famillar faces on the show, Clifton Davis, the main who played Riley and of course sherman hemsley

I think it mostly had to do with the famillar faces on the show, Clifton Davis, the main who played Riley and of course sherman hemsley

Well, there was the whole Saturday night line-up. "The Golden Girls" was a runaway smash, and a lot of the '80s Saturday night shows in that line-up did well.

Declining ratings is why the show got cancelled. Amen nielsen ratings

Season 1: #13
Season 2: #15
Season 3: #25
Season 4: #54
Season 5: #60

Amen was a top 20 show for its first two seasons. Ratings slipped in Season 3 but it was still in the top 30. The ratings took a massive plunge in Season 4 where the show dropped to #54. I'm surprised NBC renewed it for a fifth season. The show was lucky to even get a fifth season where it dropped even further to #60 where NBC finally pulled the plug and cancelled it.

Amen S5 is way better than 227 S5. But Amen ended at the right time. S5 was good but it had a lot more broader episodes than usual. Not too bad though.Plus the characters were still well developed

I could never get into 227 since it felt like it was geared toward women

227 came on in 1985

Amen came on in 1986


I feel both were because the Jeffersons was cancelled so this gave Marla a shown of her own, then Sherman one of his own.


BOTH shows I am surprised did not last longer.


I read somewhere that in 1990, it came down to renewing just one of them, either 227 or Amen, for one final season, or another season, and they went with Amen and cancelled 227. I think I read it on here somewhere once, back in the early 2000s.



The reason I feel both shows should have stayed...


Just look at what CRAP we got after 1992.


1992 saw the end of The Cosby Show and the Golden Girls. It also saw the end of Cheers, BUT Cheers was a show that was more about adults, and that's the way the network wanted to go. Not that I have anything against "Friends" but it was pure crap to me as it was about adults living together. It didn't feel like a family show as did all the new shows in the 1990s that came out like The Drew Carey Show, Seinfeld, Dharma and Greg, Will And Grace...all these had the same feel....ADULTS who were no Golden Girls or Three's Company. They lacked that magic.


5 seasons a piece is pure garbage. BOTH SHOWS deserved to go on until 1992 or even longer.


We had already lost Diff'rent Strokes 1985 then 12986 on ABC
Gimme A Break in 1987
Silver Spoons in 1987
Punk Brewster in 1988
The Facts Of Life in 1988
Webster in 1989
Small Wonder in 1989
Mr. Belvedere in 1990
Mama's Family in 1990

We were LOSING Family sitcoms. Even if they were on other networks.


Amen and 227 were both family sitcoms and had that feel.


227 could have gone on for a 6th season in 1990-1991 and a 7th in 1991-1992, closing up that year.

Amen could have gone one more season in 1991-1992 and closed up as well at the same time.

Even if they both felt like they were going on too long, I feel they could have at least been cancelled by 1992 the latest, without going beyond that, as Cosby, Golden Girls and Cheers all ended in 1992. They could have just cancelled all of them that year.

By 1992, the networked SUCKED


What would we have gotten?


227 going on 2 more seasons could have for sure ended with Brenda and Calvin getting married. I feel if it went on longer that would have happened eventually. Or she would have became pregnant and gotten married and had a baby by the end. They would have had to explain Rose's husband not being there anymore as the actor passed away in 1991.

Amen goig on one more season would have focused on Thelma and her husband as parents and Ernie as a grandfather, no doubt.

I wasnt a fan of 227 since it was geared toward women

I wasnt a fan of 227 since it was geared toward women

It really wasn’t a lol funny show like Amen either!

It really wasn’t a lol funny show like Amen either!


A woman was the lead character with several female characters and that means most the viewers were women

A woman was the lead character with several female characters and that means most the viewers were women

Yes that is true!

I definitely remember watching Amen back then, but my memories of 227 are pretty vague. I thought they were both good vehicles for the lead actors.

Things were really different back then, even though my brother had a Sony Betamax VCR and I could have recorded stuff (on a smaller TV, another room) that was on for example ABC while watching a CBS show, I was spending my money on comics rather than Beta tapes.

Also in '85 to mid '87 I was still in school and not watching as much primetime TV, then worked a lot of 2nd shifts from '88 to '92 or so.

Both shows were running dry when they were cancelled. A-men was really good its first two seasons then it was not good anymore.
227 was over all a better show IMHO but ran its course too.

Both shows were running dry when they were cancelled. A-men was really good its first two seasons then it was not good anymore.
227 was over all a better show IMHO but ran its course too.

I don’t agree, 227 only had two really funny character’s to me, ‘Pearl’ and ‘Sandra’. There’s too much corniness on ‘227’ for me. ‘Amen’ had the funnier and more talented cast. ‘Rolly’ was one of the funniest people on television in those days. Amen did start to slack off in the last season with sorry ‘Clarence’ joining the show, but it was still a solid show. ‘227’ started to slack off when Countess Vaughn joined the show during season 4. It was a bad show during the last season!