http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-01-13/good-riddance/

Self-confessed "Cocophile" Bryan Curtis was left "utterly bored" by Conan's "Tonight," pointing out that nobody seems to be defending the quality of his seven-month stint. "When O’Brien sat down at Johnny’s desk, the gravitas seemed to throw off his balance," he says. "The show’s first week was an embarrassing celebration of all things Conan—see the opening sketch. It should have rightly celebrated the whole Conan traveling circus, from the dog to the masturbating bear."

Well said - I also miss the gags starring Abe Vigoda, who stayed behind in NYC. :(

The same could be said for Leno's 10:00 show. The truth is NBC is not replacing Conan because his show stunk. They are replacing him because they didn't want to lose Leno. They forced Leno into leaving the Tonight Show when he wasn't ready and then they sabotaged Conan's show by putting Leno on before him at 10. Then they decided to move Leno to 11:30 and push Conan back to midnight. He'd still be following Leno only this time in latenight. He might as well stayed on his own show. NBC screwed this all up. It's nobody's fault but theirs.

^ :yeahthat Sonny, you called it!!!

The same could be said for Leno's 10:00 show. The truth is NBC is not replacing Conan because his show stunk. They are replacing him because they didn't want to lose Leno. They forced Leno into leaving the Tonight Show when he wasn't ready and then they sabotaged Conan's show by putting Leno on before him at 10. Then they decided to move Leno to 11:30 and push Conan back to midnight. He'd still be following Leno only this time in latenight. He might as well stayed on his own show. NBC screwed this all up. It's nobody's fault but theirs.

Conan demanded The Tonight Show during his last contract negotiation with NBC - and if NBC didn't give him the Tonight Show within a 5 year period, they would pay Conan a penalty clause which was rumored to be between 40-60 million bucks.
Greed is what created this mess. NBC didn't want to lose Conan to another network, even though thier loyal go to guy Leno was still raking in the big bucks. So that's why Leno "retired" in 2009 even though he was still on top. They could have told Conan to buzz off and let Leno host the Tonight Show forever, but they didn't want to face Conan in head to head competion.
Now it looks like that's going to happen anyway.
Word is now that Conan will get a fat settlement to walk (the money NBC didn't want to pay him as a penalty!) and will be free to host a new show by the end of this year.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-01-13/good-riddance/

Self-confessed "Cocophile" Bryan Curtis was left "utterly bored" by Conan's "Tonight," pointing out that nobody seems to be defending the quality of his seven-month stint. "When O’Brien sat down at Johnny’s desk, the gravitas seemed to throw off his balance," he says. "The show’s first week was an embarrassing celebration of all things Conan—see the opening sketch. It should have rightly celebrated the whole Conan traveling circus, from the dog to the masturbating bear."


Conan is the true embarassment-lol

The fact that people are saying this is all Leno's fault (including latenight talkers Letterman and Kimmel) is insane. Although Leno announced his retirement in 2004, it was with NBC's pushing. He never wanted to retire from The Tonight Show, and when 2009 came around, NBC realized this, realized his profitability, and kept him. Unfortunately, that was their mistake.

In all this, NBC and Jeff Zucker screwed this up. But, right now, Conan is the one making the biggest mistake. He let his conceitedness and pride get in the way of his thinking. All he had to do was simply move to 12:05 and keep The Tonight Show. He would have gotten a big-enough lead-in from Leno, which probably would have got him more exposure and better ratings. Now, he has nothing, and Leno will return to The Tonight Show and spike ratings right back up.

Conan's ratings did suck. They sucked badly. Luckily for NBC, they have the buzz now. So, Conan's ratings will remain up until he's done (which could be next Friday). Then, Leno will return, and his Tonight Show ratings will be up, and they'll likely remain up. Leno, who still has a good 5-10 years left in him, will take back the lead, and NBC's latenight woes will ultimately be over.

The fact that people are saying this is all Leno's fault (including latenight talkers Letterman and Kimmel) is insane. Although Leno announced his retirement in 2004, it was with NBC's pushing. He never wanted to retire from The Tonight Show, and when 2009 came around, NBC realized this, realized his profitability, and kept him. Unfortunately, that was their mistake.

In all this, NBC and Jeff Zucker screwed this up. But, right now, Conan is the one making the biggest mistake. He let his conceitedness and pride get in the way of his thinking. All he had to do was simply move to 12:05 and keep The Tonight Show. He would have gotten a big-enough lead-in from Leno, which probably would have got him more exposure and better ratings. Now, he has nothing, and Leno will return to The Tonight Show and spike ratings right back up.

Conan's ratings did suck. They sucked badly. Luckily for NBC, they have the buzz now. So, Conan's ratings will remain up until he's done (which could be next Friday). Then, Leno will return, and his Tonight Show ratings will be up, and they'll likely remain up. Leno, who still has a good 5-10 years left in him, will take back the lead, and NBC's latenight woes will ultimately be over.
The Tonight Show is an 11:30 pm show and everybody knows that. It's been that way since the Steve Allen years. If Conan excepted that, he'd be practically back in his old timeslot but just with the Tonight Show name. And in time, NBC would expand Jay's show to an hour and everything would be back to the way it was before. NBC should have let Conan walk 5 years ago if he was insisting on the Tonight Show and NBC should have let Jay walk last year because having a 5 night a week primetime talk show was doomed to be a failure. I'm not so sure that Jay is going to get all his audience back. I've been reading a lot about this and many people are angry. I agree that it is not Jay's fault because he never should have been forced out to begin with. I think Zucker likes the way people are taking sides because it takes the blame off of him. As for ratings, Jay's ratings weren't all that good when he replaced Carson but he was given time to grow.

Conan is standing up for himself and “The Tonight Show.” He will not be NBC’s bitch. Unlike, say, Jay Leno. Conan refuses to push the show back which also affects Jimmy Fallon’s show, something Jay doesn’t care about. Just like he didn’t care about pushing Carson and Letterman out of the way back in 1992. Jay will return to The Tonight Show and people who don’t mind watching a classless guy who gladly screws late night peers over will be sure to watch. I, for one am glad I’m not a Leno fan.

It was great seeing Jimmy Kimmel give it to Leno on his own show. The audience was laughing at Kimmel’s jokes even though they were bashing the fan’s beloved Leno. I loved it.

Leno may have his show back, but he doesn’t have the respect - Conan does.

As I’ve said before, the reason this is Jay’s fault is because he never left. Back in 2004, Jay Leno announced he would be leaving The Tonight Show in 2009 and handing it over to Conan O’Brien. A gracious move. We should have known it was out of character for Jay. But then just before Conan’s Tonight Show debuted, Jay announced he was doing a new show at 10 o’clock. So why would Leno fans bother to watch Conan’s Tonight Show? They would still have their guy just at an earlier timeslot. This prevented some potential Conan viewers from watching his show. Then when “The Jay Leno Show” debuted, ratings for Conan went down. This was because of the crappy lead-in of Jay, a reason the affiliates wanted NBC to drop his show. You have to remember, when Jay Leno took over The Tonight Show, it took him three years to beat Letterman. Conan’s had seven months. Plus Conan’s had to replace a guy who came back. Leno replaced a guy who left and stayed gone. PLUS Leno always had dramas at 10 o’clock, which resulted in higher ratings for the news and ultimately for his show.

No Julie, it’s not “insane” to blame Leno. Some will and some won’t, but there’s at least a reason to. We’re not just making stuff up out of thin air to blame on Leno. And Leno’s acting like he doesn’t know what’s going on, telling the audience in his monologue “I guess we were cancelled” and “No one knows what’s going on.” Yet the other hosts are all talking about what’s going on. Leno just doesn’t want to look like a douche bag… too late, buddy.

True some people don’t “get” Conan and never will, but he still didn’t get the chance to let his ratings grow for those who would eventually come around. He didn’t get the proper chance. And NBC will forever be a joke because of this.

Conan is the true embarassment-lol

How so?

Leno's the one coming out of this with a tarnished reputation, not Conan.

I still think the "brain trust" at NBC are the main ones to blame for this mess. It would serve Jeff Zucker right if both Jay and Conan split.

I still think the "brain trust" at NBC are the main ones to blame for this mess. It would serve Jeff Zucker right if both Jay and Conan split.

It would serve Jeff Zucker right if both Jay and Conan left NBC. But Leno would never do that. He’s right where he wants to be and screwing over a “friend” is okay in his book. As long as he hosts The Tonight Show.

I agree that Jeff Zucker is to blame as well as Leno. But Leno didn’t have to go along with all of this in the first place.

I still think the "brain trust" at NBC are the main ones to blame for this mess. It would serve Jeff Zucker right if both Jay and Conan split.
Your right Monika! It was Jeff Zucker and the other suits at NBC who made every bad decision and every bad programming move that led to this terrible mess. They're the one's to blame.

It would serve Jeff Zucker right if both Jay and Conan left NBC. But Leno would never do that. He’s right where he wants to be and screwing over a “friend” is okay in his book. As long as he hosts The Tonight Show.

I agree that Jeff Zucker is to blame as well as Leno. But Leno didn’t have to go along with all of this in the first place.
If anyone screwed someone over it was Conan O'Brien when he insisted in his last contract negotian that he be made host of the "Tonight Show". Somebody else already had that job at the time. It is totally unprecedented in the history of the "Tonight Show" for that to happen. In every other instance a new host was chosen only after his predecessor had chosen to leave. Only Conan has been arrogant and egotistacal enough to plot a hostile takeover. In my opinion that makes him classless. And I think he got what he deserved.

Adam, you can't seriously be this angry at Jay Leno for this entire debacle. The guy enjoys what he does, and you're telling me it was his responsibility to step aside? He didn't want to end his career yet. He still has 5-10 years, if not more, left in him, and he should be allowed to keep his job and his audience as long as he wants to. It's not our faults Conan's ratings have been terrible since week 2 of his Tonight Show reign. It's not our fault Conan has failed to build an audience, but has instead further lost it since June. It's not our fault NBC's little experiment just didn't work out. But to call Leno NBC's bitch, to say that he's a classless guy who should be blamed for all of this is crazy.

Hey, you're a Conan fan. I understand that. I, to a large extent, am not, but I still find the guy funny at times (the porno names bit this week was hysterical). I just think you're going way overboard with placing the blame on Leno. It's not like he's been bashing Conan or any other latenight host since all of this started. The guy just wants to keep on working. He's going along with everything because he wants to keep doing what he enjoys doing. To suggest that he should have stepped down is just something that never would have happened. Leno has been trying to avoid this, as evident in his show. He doesn't want to follow in the footsteps of the other latenight hosts and bash them or take advantage of the situation. Sure, he makes his cracks here and there, and sure, he bashes NBC here and there, but I applaud him for not making it the basis of each and every show.

Furthermore, Conan's Tonight Show was terrible, as the article suggests. It was unfunny, and Conan managed to turn it into a complete joke. Now, don't get me wrong. I've been laughing at some of his bits all week. And sadly, I have never seen Conan more tame and more funny than he's been this week. Of course, it took him 7 months to do so. If he would have started out the show just like he was this week - calmer, more relaxed, more connected to the job and his audience - then I bet we wouldn't be having this conversation. But, too little, too late.

Let's put it like this. When it was time for Leno to step down, he stepped down. NBC just happened to give him a 10pm primetime show. If they hadn't, Leno probably would have ended up at ABC or FOX anyways. The man was never going to retire. After his primetime show failed, NBC was the one left scrambling. They were the ones who gave Leno 11:35 back. If they had just let Leno go, and keep Conan on at 11:35, then I bet Leno would once again have ended up at ABC or FOX. Everyone knows what a big asset he is to the latenight talkshow industry, which is essentially why NBC sees no losses letting Conan go. Just because he can bring in ratings and Conan cannot doesn't mean Leno should be made out to be the ass in all of this. Whatever your opinion is, bottomline, Leno's reputation may be tarnished now, but people will soon forget. He will get his audience back at 11:35, and he will lead NBC right back to #1 in latenight, something Conan managed to do the complete opposite of.

If anyone screwed someone over it was Conan O'Brien when he insisted in his last contract negotian that he be made host of the "Tonight Show". Somebody else already had that job at the time. It is totally unprecedented in the history of the "Tonight Show" for that to happen. In every other instance a new host was chosen only after his predecessor had chosen to leave. Only Conan has been arrogant and egotistacal enough to plot a hostile takeover. In my opinion that makes him classless. And I think he got what he deserved.

From what I’ve read out there on the internet, Jay Leno and his lawyers forced Johnny Carson to retire before he wanted to. Jay even said in an interview that he was told he could be forced out while he’s still at the top. So Jay knew this was a possibility. This interview is on Youtube, though I’d have to search for it again. It was, I believe, an interview from 1992.

Besides, “The Tonight Show” has had different hosts: Steve Allen, Jack Paar, Johnny Carson and Jay Leno. Conan’s not getting any younger. Hosting this show was his dream too. So what happened to Carson, happened to Leno. The difference is Johnny bowed out gracefully. Leno didn’t. And okay, so Leno didn’t want to go. He could have stood his ground and said “No, I won’t leave The Tonight Show, screw Conan.” But he didn’t. He STEPPED ASIDE and GAVE CONAN THE TONIGHT SHOW. Although he didn’t truly give Conan The Tonight Show. If he did, he wouldn’t have taken it back first chance he could.

If Jay didn’t want to retire, but didn’t want to fight NBC he could have gone to another network and very likely would have beaten Conan in the ratings. But this still would have been good for NBC in the long run, because Conan’s got the younger demographics, while Leno has the older demographics. The younger people will be around longer, and eventually Leno would retire (or die) and NBC would already have their established host.

Furthermore, Conan's Tonight Show was terrible, as the article suggests.

Whatever your opinion is, bottomline, Leno's reputation may be tarnished now, but people will soon forget.

I disagree with this article, but it was one person’s opinion. I think Conan’s Tonight Show has been great. I’ve laughed every night I watched it. But he does need more time, just like Leno got more time back when he started The Tonight Show. Why should Conan not get the chance to grow in this job? As mentioned, if Leno would have gone to another network he would have beaten Conan, but in the long run, NBC would have had an established host. Now what will they do when Leno retires? They screwed it up. And yes, I’ve already mentioned I partially blame Jeff Zucker for this. And my anger towards Leno is leaning me to mention him, rather than Zucker.

People won't forget. They may not care, but they won't forget. No one's forgotten the Carson/Leno/Letterman thing from before.

I disagree with this article, but it was one person’s opinion. I think Conan’s Tonight Show has been great. I’ve laughed every night I watched it. But he does need more time, just like Leno got more time back when he started The Tonight Show. Why should Conan not get the chance to grow in this job? As mentioned, if Leno would have gone to another network he would have beaten Conan, but in the long run, NBC would have had an established host. Now what will they do when Leno retires? They screwed it up. And yes, I’ve already mentioned I partially blame Jeff Zucker for this. And my anger towards Leno is leaning me to mention him, rather than Zucker.

People won't forget. They may not care, but they won't forget. No one's forgotten the Carson/Leno/Letterman thing from before.


Unless you can provide and compare the ratings for Jay Leno in his first 7 months compared to Conan, there is no need to ask why he wasn't given a chance to grow. One guess can be because NBC is used to being NUMBER ONE in that timeslot

I disagree with this article, but it was one person’s opinion. I think Conan’s Tonight Show has been great. I’ve laughed every night I watched it. But he does need more time, just like Leno got more time back when he started The Tonight Show. Why should Conan not get the chance to grow in this job? As mentioned, if Leno would have gone to another network he would have beaten Conan, but in the long run, NBC would have had an established host. Now what will they do when Leno retires? They screwed it up. And yes, I’ve already mentioned I partially blame Jeff Zucker for this. And my anger towards Leno is leaning me to mention him, rather than Zucker.

People won't forget. They may not care, but they won't forget. No one's forgotten the Carson/Leno/Letterman thing from before.

Conan can't have more time simply because he doesn't have more time. Leno had time to grow because there was no one to replace him with. Leno and Conan were both fresh in their timeslots for NBC, and over the course of a few years, both grew to have very good, loyal audiences. This time around, Conan has had 17 years experience. He knows how to host a latenight program, and if the audience isn't responding yet, they'll never respond. It's been said that Conan's audience doesn't watch him live, but instead watches him online, through full episodes or bits and pieces of each episode. Leno's audience, meanwhile, watches him live, which is important nowadays, especially in latenight when DVR's are used VERY little.

There's also the point that NBC does have someone to replace Conan with. His name is Jay Leno. Conan's stick is short - if he isn't up to standards by now, then Leno's back in. That's exactly what happened here. It's a completely different situation than it was back in 1993. People may not forget, but they will forgive and forget. People may be mad at Leno now, but it's not enough people. His audience is still watching, and those same people will more than likely watch him when he returns to latenight. Things will simply go back to the way they were before, just with Fallon instead of Conan.

Unless you can provide and compare the ratings for Jay Leno in his first 7 months compared to Conan, there is no need to ask why he wasn't given a chance to grow. One guess can be because NBC is used to being NUMBER ONE in that timeslot

There IS a need to ask why Conan hasn’t been given a chance to grow and I’M ASKING IT!

Bottom line, Conan was given The Tonight Show. It wasn’t a trial period to see if Conan would remain #1 in the ratings. Did they honestly expect him to get as high ratings as Leno got? If so, they then were stupid (which is a big possibility). Much like Leno got the time to grow and become successful in the ratings, Conan needed the same thing. Seven months and a slap in the face by Leno for stepping aside and then getting in the way, is not a fair chance.

Again, keeping Conan would have been better for the long run. NBC is crap right now. There’s no denying that. But the future of NBC could be great. And that’s where Conan would be (had this whole moving the show back to accommodate Leno incident never occurred). And yes, a great future for NBC is one without Zucker.

There IS a need to ask why Conan hasn’t been given a chance to grow and I’M ASKING IT!

Bottom line, Conan was given The Tonight Show. It wasn’t a trial period to see if Conan would remain #1 in the ratings. Did they honestly expect him to get as high ratings as Leno got? If so, they then were stupid (which is a big possibility). Much like Leno got the time to grow and become successful in the ratings, Conan needed the same thing. Seven months and a slap in the face by Leno for stepping aside and then getting in the way, is not a fair chance.

Again, keeping Conan would have been better for the long run. NBC is crap right now. There’s no denying that. But the future of NBC could be great. And that’s where Conan would be (had this whole moving the show back to accommodate Leno incident never occurred). And yes, a great future for NBC is one without Zucker.


I think that Conan must be trailing more than David Letterman during the 11:30pm slot for NBC to wamt to push him back. If he was just trailing Dave then it would be an issue. Which may also be the reason that Jay had the opportunity to stay longer because he only trailed Dave.

There IS a need to ask why Conan hasn’t been given a chance to grow and I’M ASKING IT!

Bottom line, Conan was given The Tonight Show. It wasn’t a trial period to see if Conan would remain #1 in the ratings. Did they honestly expect him to get as high ratings as Leno got? If so, they then were stupid (which is a big possibility). Much like Leno got the time to grow and become successful in the ratings, Conan needed the same thing. Seven months and a slap in the face by Leno for stepping aside and then getting in the way, is not a fair chance.

Again, keeping Conan would have been better for the long run. NBC is crap right now. There’s no denying that. But the future of NBC could be great. And that’s where Conan would be (had this whole moving the show back to accommodate Leno incident never occurred). And yes, a great future for NBC is one without Zucker.

Again, Leno was fresh to the latenight business. Sure, he guest-hosted for Carson here and there for a few years beforehand, but still, he was hosting The Tonight Show for the first time in 1993. Of course NBC gave him time to grow. How could they not? They wouldn't have had anyone to replace him with in the meantime! But Conan - he's had 17 years experience as host of a latenight talkshow. He premiered to big ratings, but he failed to keep his audience and his lead over Letterman, and there's no excuse for that. Conan didn't change the show to make it more "general" and he didn't stop his stupid on-stage antics, and in the end, the general Tonight Show audience didn't want to watch him like they wanted to watch Jay. He doesn't need time when the verdict is already in.

Conan can't have more time simply because he doesn't have more time. Leno had time to grow because there was no one to replace him with. Leno and Conan were both fresh in their timeslots for NBC, and over the course of a few years, both grew to have very good, loyal audiences. This time around, Conan has had 17 years experience. He knows how to host a latenight program, and if the audience isn't responding yet, they'll never respond. It's been said that Conan's audience doesn't watch him live, but instead watches him online, through full episodes or bits and pieces of each episode. Leno's audience, meanwhile, watches him live, which is important nowadays, especially in latenight when DVR's are used VERY little.

There's also the point that NBC does have someone to replace Conan with. His name is Jay Leno. Conan's stick is short - if he isn't up to standards by now, then Leno's back in. That's exactly what happened here. It's a completely different situation than it was back in 1993. People may not forget, but they will forgive and forget. People may be mad at Leno now, but it's not enough people. His audience is still watching, and those same people will more than likely watch him when he returns to latenight. Things will simply go back to the way they were before, just with Fallon instead of Conan.

Yes, because Leno didn’t have Johnny Carson ready to take back the show he gave to him, Leno stayed on the air. No did Carson do a primetime show before Leno's show to take some of the air out of The Tonight Show. If only Conan had the advantage of that. But Conan had a guy who never left the network, but rather jumped in front of him at an earlier slot and the at the drop of a hat, replaced him. AND THEN Leno tries to sound like a good guy and says he may leave NBC over this too. Nope. He’s not going to. That’s why I loved it so much when Jimmy Kimmel gave it to him the other night. Priceless!

And there are people who I’m sure just plumb don’t stay up beyond The Tonight Show. So many people were just now experiencing Conan. Which is why he would need more time, since not everyone latches onto a certain host right away.

I think that Conan must be trailing more than David Letterman during the 11:30pm slot for NBC to wamt to push him back. If he was just trailing Dave then it would be an issue. Which may also be the reason that Jay had the opportunity to stay longer because he only trailed Dave.

Sure, because Leno had a higher-rated lead-in. Why people can’t just pick up a remote control and turn the channel is beyond me. But everything needs a great lead-in. Leno was given that. Conan was not. You may say, but Conan had three months before Leno came back. Well, those were reruns at 10 o’clock. Plus, people knew Leno was coming back, so I’m sure there were those who didn’t even give Conan a chance because of that.

And you're right. I believe Conan is losing to Letterman and Nightline.

Again, Leno was fresh to the latenight business. Sure, he guest-hosted for Carson here and there for a few years beforehand, but still, he was hosting The Tonight Show for the first time in 1993. Of course NBC gave him time to grow. How could they not? They wouldn't have had anyone to replace him with in the meantime! But Conan - he's had 17 years experience as host of a latenight talkshow. He premiered to big ratings, but he failed to keep his audience and his lead over Letterman, and there's no excuse for that. Conan didn't change the show to make it more "general" and he didn't stop his stupid on-stage antics, and in the end, the general Tonight Show audience didn't want to watch him like they wanted to watch Jay. He doesn't need time when the verdict is already in.

You have valid points, I’ll give you that. And I don’t like arguing, but this is one of the few things in life I’m passionate about, lol.

NBC had a contract with Conan to 2014. Why make a contract at all, if you’re willing to mess things up because the ratings aren’t there within the first seven months. And it’s not like this is some new sitcom or something. This is an American institution. Hosts come and hosts go. But each host needs the time to attract an audience and do his own thing. Because NBC still had Leno, it was easy for them to just change things. But Conan would have none of this. And so he walked. Leno’s back to The Tonight Show and Conan’s got 30 million dollars and will be looking for another project.

So basically NBC never fully gave Conan The Tonight Show. That was a lie. They tested him out there, while keeping Leno in case things were bad. They’re mistake was putting Leno at 10, which hurt Conan’s ratings. Had Leno gone to another network, Conan would still be the host of The Tonight Show, so the Conan fans would be happy. And Leno would be on another network with a show, so Leno fans would be happy. But this isn’t what happened.

Sure, because Leno had a higher-rated lead-in. Why people can’t just pick up a remote control and turn the channel is beyond me. But everything needs a great lead-in. Leno was given that. Conan was not. You may say, but Conan had three months before Leno came back. Well, those were reruns at 10 o’clock. Plus, people knew Leno was coming back, so I’m sure there were those who didn’t even give Conan a chance because of that.

And you're right. I believe Conan is losing to Letterman and Nightline.


Well there's your answer as to why 7 months was long enough. I think the Nanny at 11:30pm on N@N had more viewers too

Well there's your answer as to why 7 months was long enough. I think the Nanny at 11:30pm on N@N had more viewers too

I don't know, maybe.

It would. I hate The Nanny. If I loved The Nanny, it would last only a couple months before being canned. That's my history with shows I love. Remember NewsRadio on Nick at Nite? That was only on a few of months as well.

I know I've asked this before, but it's worth asking again: WHY hasn't Jeff Zucker been fired from NBC yet?? He's been there for how many years and he's completely ruined the network. :confused: :mad:

I know I've asked this before, but it's worth asking again: WHY hasn't Jeff Zucker been fired from NBC yet?? He's been there for how many years and he's completely ruined the network. :confused: :mad:
That is the million dollar question in all of this. Does he have incriminating dirt on one of his superiors? Does he have a pact with the devil? What could possibly be keeping him from losing his job? Certainly not his job performance!!! :rolleyes: :crazy: :confused:

Didn't Comcast just give him a 3 year extension? Maybe he's blackmailing everybody. :lol:

Didn't Comcast just give him a 3 year extension? Maybe he's blackmailing everybody. :lol:
You get what you pay for!! :eek: :crazy: :mad:

Didn't Comcast just give him a 3 year extension? Maybe he's blackmailing everybody. :lol:

Maybe he's sleeping with some of his staffers? ;)

The Tonight Show is an 11:30 pm show and everybody knows that. It's been that way since the Steve Allen years. If Conan excepted that, he'd be practically back in his old timeslot but just with the Tonight Show name. And in time, NBC would expand Jay's show to an hour and everything would be back to the way it was before. NBC should have let Conan walk 5 years ago if he was insisting on the Tonight Show and NBC should have let Jay walk last year because having a 5 night a week primetime talk show was doomed to be a failure. I'm not so sure that Jay is going to get all his audience back. I've been reading a lot about this and many people are angry. I agree that it is not Jay's fault because he never should have been forced out to begin with. I think Zucker likes the way people are taking sides because it takes the blame off of him. As for ratings, Jay's ratings weren't all that good when he replaced Carson but he was given time to grow.

Plus, Conan would be inadvertently screwing Jimmy Fallon (who's show would've moved to 1:05) if he went through with NBC's evil:crazy: plan. I honestly think that this was just an excuse to get rid of Conan once and for all. Moving The Tonight Show to 12:05 would've likely made the ratings worse (therefore justifying NBC to dump Conan).

From what I’ve read out there on the internet, Jay Leno and his lawyers forced Johnny Carson to retire before he wanted to. Jay even said in an interview that he was told he could be forced out while he’s still at the top. So Jay knew this was a possibility. This interview is on Youtube, though I’d have to search for it again. It was, I believe, an interview from 1992.

Besides, “The Tonight Show” has had different hosts: Steve Allen, Jack Paar, Johnny Carson and Jay Leno. Conan’s not getting any younger. Hosting this show was his dream too. So what happened to Carson, happened to Leno. The difference is Johnny bowed out gracefully. Leno didn’t. And okay, so Leno didn’t want to go. He could have stood his ground and said “No, I won’t leave The Tonight Show, screw Conan.” But he didn’t. He STEPPED ASIDE and GAVE CONAN THE TONIGHT SHOW. Although he didn’t truly give Conan The Tonight Show. If he did, he wouldn’t have taken it back first chance he could.

If Jay didn’t want to retire, but didn’t want to fight NBC he could have gone to another network and very likely would have beaten Conan in the ratings. But this still would have been good for NBC in the long run, because Conan’s got the younger demographics, while Leno has the older demographics. The younger people will be around longer, and eventually Leno would retire (or die) and NBC would already have their established host.

Lets put it this way, Jay is 59 and Conan is 47. Johnny Carson was I think, 66 when he retired from The Tonight Show. This is all going to look bad in the long term for NBC. Although Conan as a more younger fanbase for The Tonight Show, that's not to say that they'll eventually grow up with him like folks did with Letterman (who also attracted mostly the college demographic when he was at NBC).

Lets put it this way, Jay is 59 and Conan is 47. Johnny Carson was I think, 66 when he retired from The Tonight Show. This is all going to look bad in the long term for NBC. Although Conan as a more younger fanbase for The Tonight Show, that's not to say that they'll eventually grow up with him like folks did with Letterman (who also attracted mostly the college demographic when he was at NBC).

I think Leno could go to 70 and still get a good 1.2-1.5 in the demo. Realistically, with this decision to put Leno back on The Tonight Show once and for all, they're probably going to milk him for all he's worth. At this point, I dont even see someone who could realistically replace him. Perhaps Jimmy Fallon, but only if Leno is gonna be working for 10 more years.

He didn't want to end his career yet. He still has 5-10 years, if not more, left in him, and he should be allowed to keep his job and his audience as long as he wants to.

Then he should've just went to another network. Or retired like he initially agreed to do. Simple as that. Bottom line is Conan just should've had more time to grow his audience, just like Leno did. Just like ANY new host. If Leno had just walked, there would be absolutely no problem. Conan would've continued hosting The Tonight Show, eventually becoming a success. And Leno would still have his reputation intact, and probably continue to thrive on another network if he chose to go that route. But no, this ***** happened instead and Leno's and NBC's reputation will forever be damaged as a result. How Jeff Zucker (or Jay, for that matter) can sleep at night is anyone's guess.

But to call Leno NBC's bitch, to say that he's a classless guy who should be blamed for all of this is crazy.

I’ve been thinking about that today. And while it’s definitely a mean thing to say, I have to stand by the statement. If Jay had stood up for himself or anyone else once, things would be different. If he had said “No, I won’t leave The Tonight Show.” If he had said “No, I won’t stay at NBC. I’m switching networks!” If he had said, “It’s Conan’s Tonight Show now. I won’t push his show back or force him off.” But he didn’t. He let NBC push him around. And this isn't making him a classy guy, so the opposite is classless. But you're right he shouldn't be blamed for all this.

Conan would have none of this NBC bullcrap so he left. A fact that even though I'm gonna miss him, still makes me proud to be a fan of Conan's.

TEAM CONAN!!

^Exactly, if Jay had said just one of those things, he wouldn't be getting this much backlash. Instead, this whole situation, though not entirely his fault, just makes him look bad mearly by association. It just makes him come off as an opportunistic weasel. And that's being nice.

I knew NBC should have ended "Last Call" with Carson Daly. Johnny Carson's Tonight Show has lasted for 30 years and Conan O'Brien, because of his refusal to do the Tonight Show at midnight, has lasted for less than one. They should have gotten somebody else to host the Tonight Show. Jay Leno was a better host for Tonight (that's not my opinion), but Leno is no Johnny Carson.

Then he should've just went to another network. Or retired like he initially agreed to do. Simple as that. Bottom line is Conan just should've had more time to grow his audience, just like Leno did. Just like ANY new host. If Leno had just walked, there would be absolutely no problem. Conan would've continued hosting The Tonight Show, eventually becoming a success. And Leno would still have his reputation intact, and probably continue to thrive on another network if he chose to go that route. But no, this ***** happened instead and Leno's and NBC's reputation will forever be damaged as a result. How Jeff Zucker (or Jay, for that matter) can sleep at night is anyone's guess.

Jay and/or NBC should realize that Leno needed like two-three years to finally figure his Tonight Show out. Only giving Conan O'Brien seven months is not a realistic way to build an audience. NBC if you ask me, panicked and are going to the quick fix route once again.

I knew NBC should have ended "Last Call" with Carson Daly. Johnny Carson's Tonight Show has lasted for 30 years and Conan O'Brien, because of his refusal to do the Tonight Show at midnight, has lasted for less than one. They should have gotten somebody else to host the Tonight Show. Jay Leno was a better host for Tonight (that's not my opinion), but Leno is no Johnny Carson.

Why should Conan allow himself to be bullied into hosting a 12:05 Tonight Show. Then, the ratings would likely go down much further, and NBC would fell totally justified in getting rid of Conan (and bringing Jay back full time).

Just out of curiousity, what's the date of Jay's taking over the Tonight Show again?

March 1, after the Olympics.

March 1, after the Olympics.
Thanks!

I have enjoyed Tonight Show with Conan, but I just feel he was better at late night. He could do more of his kind of humor, he just didnt fit at the tonight show. Given more time I think he could've slowly gained an "Tonight Show" type of audience, but... Hey what kind you do.

As for Jay, i'm a fan and all, but he's a snake.

I have enjoyed Tonight Show with Conan, but I just feel he was better at late night. He could do more of his kind of humor, he just didnt fit at the tonight show. Given more time I think he could've slowly gained an "Tonight Show" type of audience, but... Hey what kind you do.

As for Jay, i'm a fan and all, but he's a snake.
I agree that Conan's humor is better suited for late night, because he can be more weird and outlandish. I also miss his show being in New York - he always had that East Coast edge - he AND the band.

I agree that Conan's humor is better suited for late night, because he can be more weird and outlandish. I also miss his show being in New York - he always had that East Coast edge - he AND the band.
And he had those hilarious bits with Abe Vigoda!!

Maybe they should've just pulled the plug on The Tonight Show after Carson left. At least Carson knew how to interview people. He had a unique gift for knowing when to talk and when to listen; and he did listen. He was from the Jack Benny school of comedy; if the other guy can get the biggest laugh, then let the other guy get the biggest laugh; whatever is best for the audience and the show. It's a philosphy that neither Leno, Letterman or O'Brian possess.

And he had those hilarious bits with Abe Vigoda!!
YES!! I love Abe!! :cool: :D

Yeah, I was under the impression Leno was partially at fault, because he "announced his retirement" in 2004, and then apparently had a change-of-heart. But now it seems he was forced out by NBC. I'm glad Leno is going back where he belongs, and continues a long rein.

Yeah, I was under the impression Leno was partially at fault, because he "announced his retirement" in 2004, and then apparently had a change-of-heart. But now it seems he was forced out by NBC. I'm glad Leno is going back where he belongs, and continues a long rein.
It's a mess, for sure. NBC has no one to blame but itself for keeping Jeff Zucker at the helm.

I miss some of these great bits from Conan's Late Night:

This whole in awe of the The Tonight Show aura that started with Letterman wanting the job has got to end.

I think Johnny Carson was great but beyond that it's just a show with a host.
And when you stuck in Leno instead of Letterman I watched Letterman.

Conan going in there seems like what would have happened if Letterman went in there- loss of what made you endearing and unique and a bunch of misplaced reverence.

The whole thing is crap. Just host your own show at the time you want and make it the best you can. This Tonight Show aura is nuts.
No one will be Carson again. (and I know the show existed before him, but comeon)

This whole in awe of the The Tonight Show aura that started with Letterman wanting the job has got to end.

I think Johnny Carson was great but beyond that it's just a show with a host.
And when you stuck in Leno instead of Letterman I watched Letterman.

Conan going in there seems like what would have happened if Letterman went in there- loss of what made you endearing and unique and a bunch of misplaced reverence.

The whole thing is crap. Just host your own show at the time you want and make it the best you can. This Tonight Show aura is nuts.
No one will be Carson again. (and I know the show existed before him, but comeon)even johnny more or less said its what you bring to the tonight show not the name itself shoot i think even steve allen would fint this whoe mess silly

even johnny more or less said its what you bring to the tonight show not the name itself shoot i think even steve allen would fint this whoe mess silly
And so would Jack Paar!!

Maybe they should've just pulled the plug on The Tonight Show after Carson left. At least Carson knew how to interview people. He had a unique gift for knowing when to talk and when to listen; and he did listen. He was from the Jack Benny school of comedy; if the other guy can get the biggest laugh, then let the other guy get the biggest laugh; whatever is best for the audience and the show. It's a philosphy that neither Leno, Letterman or O'Brian possess.
Yea I do agree with you. I haven't really watched many latenight talk shows since Carson retired.

And so would Jack Paar!!he problay would the most interesting comments of all its a shme that hes not around to add his 2 cents to the whole mess

I miss some of these great bits from Conan's Late Night:

Oh thats great. You have to understand, I've been watching Conan all my life. Ever since I was little late night has always been Conan, gaw I 'm gonna miss him so.

One skit you left out:

The Walker Texas Ranger Lever!

Oh thats great. You have to understand, I've been watching Conan all my life. Ever since I was little late night has always been Conan, gaw I 'm gonna miss him so.

One skit you left out:

The Walker Texas Ranger Lever!
Yes, that was a great one. I also forgot the state coins and SATs. :D

Oh thats great. You have to understand, I've been watching Conan all my life. Ever since I was little late night has always been Conan, gaw I 'm gonna miss him so.

One skit you left out:

The Walker Texas Ranger Lever!


OMG! That was the best!!:lol:

I miss LNwCO'B! :( But, I was SO excited to see him take over TTS back in 2004, and now its gone already?! Wherever Conan goes, I'll follow! Until then, Ill be watching Chelsea Lately.

His tonight show was pretty funny and Ill miss it, but his Late Night show was HILARIOUS

Conan's really been sticking it to the bossman(Bossman=NBC)and using every chance to say something bad about them, but Conan has always made fun of NBC so nothing new there.

Conan's really been sticking it to the bossman(Bossman=NBC)and using every chance to say something bad about them, but Conan has always made fun of NBC so nothing new there.
Yeah, and Jay's always made fun of NBC, too - years and years before this whole mess started. NBC deserves every single joke aimed at them over the years. :lol:

lOL anyone see what Sandler called them on Conan last night LOL

lOL anyone see what Sandler called them on Conan last night LOL
Was that Pee Wee Herman I saw tonight? That's the first time I've seen him in that outfit since I was a kid!! :lol:

I have to say, this whole Jay/Conan thing has me quite perplexed. The idea that NBC would move Jay Leon in the first place after consistently beating Letterman in the ratings makes absolutely no sense to me. Conan walks costing NBC $45 million, Jay Leno may suffer irreversible damage from this...it just doesn't make sense. I assumed Leno was leaving and they were paving the way for O'Brien to take his place. But, it seems it was just a big fumble that will cost NBC in dollars and ratings. If this doesn't result in President Zucker's dismissal as NBC President, well...NBC is just stupid.

I have to say, this whole Jay/Conan thing has me quite perplexed. The idea that NBC would move Jay Leon in the first place after consistently beating Letterman in the ratings makes absolutely no sense to me. Conan walks costing NBC $45 million, Jay Leno may suffer irreversible damage from this...it just doesn't make sense. I assumed Leno was leaving and they were paving the way for O'Brien to take his place. But, it seems it was just a big fumble that will cost NBC in dollars and ratings. If this doesn't result in President Zucker's dismissal as NBC President, well...NBC is just stupid.

My one hope concerning Comcast taking over NBC is that they get rid of the stooges who put NBC in this mess in the first place (Jeff Zucker, Jeff Gaspin, Dick Ebersol, etc.). I hope that everybody boycotts Jay's return to The Tonight Show out of sheer principle. Anybody who thinks that Leno is a victim somehow, is being terribly ignorant.

^Agree, tho I have a feeling when Jay returns March 1st, he will have big ratings due to all this mess [just like Conan did these past couple weeks]. I'm not saying they will last forever, but I'm sure people will be tuning in to see what he has to say.

The last conan episode was a complete blast. I loved seeing Conan playing Free Bird(without an tie!)with Will Ferrell as Ronnie Van Zant of Lynyrd Skynyrd & Billy Gibbons + Beck on guitar. I like to see Jay try to beat a finale like conans.

The count starts now: 7 months to go!

I'd actually have to agree. Conan put on a good show for his last one. Tom Hanks was hysterical, the Steve Carrell bit, while seemingly last minute, was also fun, Neil Diamond was fantastic, Conan's speech at the end was very heartfelt and a great way to sum up his sentiments for the events of the last few weeks, and the end bit with Will Farell was a great way to end the show. Overall, Conan rocked last night - unfortunately, it's one of the few times he has. Now, if he could have only put on a show like that over the last 7 months, he might have still been on the air. As I said before, too little, too late.

I'll take it your not a fan. As a conan fan I think he did great for 7 months, but like I said I liked him better on late night where I felt he could do more of his kind of comedy.

I'll take it your not a fan. As a conan fan I think he did great for 7 months, but like I said I liked him better on late night where I felt he could do more of his kind of comedy.

Fan of him on The Tonight Show, no. But, I did watch him time to time on Late Night, and I agree, he was MUCH better there. His comedy was suited for 12:35. He could really make the show his own and do what he wanted. On The Tonight Show, he had limits, and he needed to change his comedy style to an extent in order to reach the broader audience. Unfortunately, Leno was perfect at doing that, while Conan was not.

Fan of him on The Tonight Show, no. But, I did watch him time to time on Late Night, and I agree, he was MUCH better there. His comedy was suited for 12:35. He could really make the show his own and do what he wanted. On The Tonight Show, he had limits, and he needed to change his comedy style to an extent in order to reach the broader audience. Unfortunately, Leno was perfect at doing that, while Conan was not.
Agreed. Things were much, much better the way they were before. Conan and Late Night were a perfect fit - and it may be just me, but I think he lost something when he left NYC. That said, he didn't deserve the shabby treatment he got from the network. I put the blame for this mess squarely on the shoulders of NBC. They deserve every shred of bad press they've gotten for this debacle!

Agreed. Things were much, much better the way they were before. Conan and Late Night were a perfect fit - and it may be just me, but I think he lost something when he left NYC. That said, he didn't deserve the shabby treatment he got from the network. I put the blame for this mess squarely on the shoulders of NBC. They deserve every shred of bad press they've gotten for this debacle!
Yeah, NBC screwed both Leno AND Conan. I hope they both come out ahead after this nightmare!!!

Yeah, NBC screwed both Leno AND Conan. I hope they both come out ahead after this nightmare!!!
So do I!! :nod:

^Agree, tho I have a feeling when Jay returns March 1st, he will have big ratings due to all this mess [just like Conan did these past couple weeks]. I'm not saying they will last forever, but I'm sure people will be tuning in to see what he has to say.


Well I will definitely be tuned in on March 1st, let me circl that date on my calender-lol

Conan’s Tonight Show finale was awesome! Too bad it had to be, of course, but very fun nonetheless. Conan’s a cool dude, something that was very apparent in the last show. I can’t get “Free Bird” out of my head now, lol.

For seven months (or has it been eight by now?) “The Tonight Show” was funny and *the* show to watch in late night - for a certain 2 million plus viewers. ;) I honestly don’t get what the big deal about hosting “The Tonight Show” is for these hosts, but it is a very big deal. And so Conan got to host it for a brief time, but he still, in that brief time lived out his dream. No matter what, he’s a part of the history of the legendary Tonight Show.

I don’t even feel like bashing Jay Leno or NBC at this moment in time (that will pass I’m sure). Conan is just that good and his last show was that great that I’m feeling good right now. Sad, but good.

Sadly, this NBC war has not been without it’s casualties. Conan, we’ll see again, somewhere (I personally hope he gets an hour midnight show on Comedy Central following Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert. That would be a two hour block of television worth getting cable for). Unfortunately, Triumph the insult comic dog and the Masturbating Bear (along with Conan’s other late night characters) are now property of NBC, and thus, no longer allowed to be used by Conan on his next project. If Jay ends up using Triumph, you can bet an angry mob of Conan fans with torches and pitchforks will be a-coming to Mr. Leno’s home. ;) But I seriously doubt Leno would use Triumph.

And so the fifth host of The Tonight Show bids farewell. I guess this makes Jay Leno like President Grover Cleveland. He was the 22nd and 24th President, while Jay is the fourth and sixth host of The Tonight Show.

^ Could Conan still use Abe Vigoda or is Abe considered property of NBC now? :crazy: :lol:

^ Could Conan still use Abe Vigoda or is Abe considered property of NBC now? :crazy: :lol:
When David Letterman left NBC he was no longer allowed to use Larry "Bud" Melman on his show as he was considered a character and as such NBC's intellectual property. Of course David Letterman eventually got around that by having Mr. Melman on his CBS show under a different name. I'm sure Conan is clever enough to find a way to keep using Abe if he wants to.

When David Letterman left NBC he was no longer allowed to use Larry "Bud" Melman on his show as he was considered a character and as such NBC's intellectual property. Of course David Letterman eventually got around that by having Mr. Melman on his CBS show under a different name. I'm sure Conan is clever enough to find a way to keep using Abe if he wants to.
We shall see!!! :D

Conan’s Tonight Show finale was awesome! Too bad it had to be, of course, but very fun nonetheless. Conan’s a cool dude, something that was very apparent in the last show. I can’t get “Free Bird” out of my head now, lol.

For seven months (or has it been eight by now?) “The Tonight Show” was funny and *the* show to watch in late night - for a certain 2 million plus viewers. ;) I honestly don’t get what the big deal about hosting “The Tonight Show” is for these hosts, but it is a very big deal. And so Conan got to host it for a brief time, but he still, in that brief time lived out his dream. No matter what, he’s a part of the history of the legendary Tonight Show.

I don’t even feel like bashing Jay Leno or NBC at this moment in time (that will pass I’m sure). Conan is just that good and his last show was that great that I’m feeling good right now. Sad, but good.

Sadly, this NBC war has not been without it’s casualties. Conan, we’ll see again, somewhere (I personally hope he gets an hour midnight show on Comedy Central following Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert. That would be a two hour block of television worth getting cable for). Unfortunately, Triumph the insult comic dog and the Masturbating Bear (along with Conan’s other late night characters) are now property of NBC, and thus, no longer allowed to be used by Conan on his next project. If Jay ends up using Triumph, you can bet an angry mob of Conan fans with torches and pitchforks will be a-coming to Mr. Leno’s home. ;) But I seriously doubt Leno would use Triumph.

And so the fifth host of The Tonight Show bids farewell. I guess this makes Jay Leno like President Grover Cleveland. He was the 22nd and 24th President, while Jay is the fourth and sixth host of The Tonight Show.
Seriously, you're right - I doubt Jay would use Triumph. I take it that Conan no longer has the rights to If They Mated, the Driving Desk, etc. :( Then again, didn't Dave somehow manage to get back the rights to the Top 10 List and Stupid Pet/People Tricks once he got to CBS?

Adam, just in case NBC IS stupid enough to let Jay use Triumph or any of Conan's other classic bits, here is the mob:

Just Wondering what is going to happen with The Current Tonight Show Studio that Conan O'Brien was useing

When David Letterman left NBC he was no longer allowed to use Larry "Bud" Melman on his show as he was considered a character and as such NBC's intellectual property. Of course David Letterman eventually got around that by having Mr. Melman on his CBS show under a different name. I'm sure Conan is clever enough to find a way to keep using Abe if he wants to.

Larry "Bud" Melman used his real name, Calvert DeForrest on Letterman's CBS show.

Personally, I agree with Adam and think Conan would be a perfect fit for Comedy Central. His wacky, subversive humor would fit right in with that channel. Can you imagine a lineup of Conan, Stephen Colbert and Jon Stewart? Plus, now that Conan can't return to TV until September, that gives him plenty of time to come up with new characters and bits.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see...

Just Wondering what is going to happen with The Current Tonight Show Studio that Conan O'Brien was useing

I was hoping he would break it down and give it away like he did the late night set.

Personally, I agree with Adam and think Conan would be a perfect fit for Comedy Central. His wacky, subversive humor would fit right in with that channel. Can you imagine a lineup of Conan, Stephen Colbert and Jon Stewart? Plus, now that Conan can't return to TV until September, that gives him plenty of time to come up with new characters and bits.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see...

I dont know if he would fit. Isnt comedy central talk shows political humor?

I've been wondering what Conan's show will be called. NBC owns the "Late Night With..." title so I cant wait to see what it will be called.

I was hoping he would break it down and give it away like he did the late night set.



I dont know if he would fit. Isnt comedy central talk shows political humor?

I've been wondering what Conan's show will be called. NBC owns the "Late Night With..." title so I cant wait to see what it will be called.
I don't think all of them are, but I could be wrong.

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/26/nbcs-gaspin-talks-about-emotion-of-late-night-changes/

NBC entertainment boss Jeff Gaspin says of the lessons he's learned from the late-night disaster: "I probably, you know, I probably underestimated the emotion of everything that went on. I went to Conan, to Jay, to Jimmy with a very logical, rational plan. I explained it to the press. I wasn’t trying to hide anything. And I think the underestimated the emotional impact it had on Conan, in particular."

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/26/nbcs-gaspin-talks-about-emotion-of-late-night-changes/

NBC entertainment boss Jeff Gaspin says of the lessons he's learned from the late-night disaster: "I probably, you know, I probably underestimated the emotion of everything that went on. I went to Conan, to Jay, to Jimmy with a very logical, rational plan. I explained it to the press. I wasn’t trying to hide anything. And I think the underestimated the emotional impact it had on Conan, in particular."
It's so scary how out of touch TIIC really are. *I* could run NBC better than them at this point!

Does anybody have a hard time watching Jay since this Tonight Show hassle happened? I watched a little bit of Mondays show, but just headline segment then I turned it off. I cant stand the guy anymore & to Conan comes back I dont plan on watching any late night talk shows.

TEAM COCO!