New guy posting here but I've been lurking here for a while. Maybe it's too fast to start a thread on my first post, but lurking here I always though it would be fun to discuss some cases that I though are really interesting but don't get discussed that much. I thought it's a good idea for a thread.

Most of these are among my favorites cases in UM.

A)Virgin Island Cyanide Poisonings- I always thought this case was really interesting. It's a very heinous act that was comitted and the fact it cost 5 people their lives is surprising to me, as it a pretty high number for a UM case. I'm going to see the Spike version in a couple of minutes to see and study any distinct thing in the case (like the seawater). I also love the setting (rural carribean) and must think it must have been a pretty big deal in the Virgin Islands.

B)Moses Long dissaperance/ Birds death- this one was very tragic but also interesting. I always thought it was weird about how non chalant was the guy from Barbados in telling the story to the cops and wonder why did the police had to contact him and not him the police after the Guyana guy told him the story. I just think it's weird.

"Do you know what happened to your old bosses?"

"Yeah, the other work told me .... (crazy story... etc etc"

"Yeah. Why didn't you contact the police before that?"

"I don't know"

Weird.

C)Argentinean ex patriot who went to the US and maybe raped so women- I'm not sure about the details of this case as it was a long time since I saw it. I think he raped a couple of person in the US and went to Mexico and killed a student girlfriend she had. That newspaper image was creepy.

D)John Roubas- I just saw this episode a couple of days ago. Never knew of him or his "murder" in Puerto Rico, which is weird since they covered those a lot.

E)Gary Simmons/ Tom Dixon case- this one is probably covered here somewhat but since it's my favorite non ghost one, I can't get enough of it. This was on the first UM episode I saw and it was the one that hooked me on the show.

I can probably mention some other cases later.

1. Zip Gun Bomber- a really fightening case, that remains unsolved. Really scared me whenI first saw the segment. I;m surprised this case isn't given as much recognition like Unabomber, Zodiac, and others. This is a very sick individual that could still be operating using another method.

2. Anne Laurie Herrin- even though its solved, this case has been fascinating since she has never been found.

3. Franklin Delano Floyd- Added to the collection of "characters" that UM has profiled.

4. Star Paluimbo- kind of gets lost with the other missing beautiful girls that UM has shown.

5. Morgan Nick & Jacqueline Castenada- doesn;t get as much recognition as the other missing children. Which I think is a crime!

6. Oliver Munson- Another fascinating case that I feel should be discussed more.

6. Oliver Munson- Another fascinating case that I feel should be discussed more.

This was a really good case and very tragic.


Also another case is the Su Taraskiewicz case. I thought a lot about that case when that Charlize Theron movie about being harassed as a miner came out.

Marco's Buddha is also another underrated episode. It's awful what they did to that guy.

Welcome rhzunam. :wave: It's always good to have new UM posters.

As for the topic, I feel that the Leah Roberts case deserve to be mentioned. Very strange case.

Also, the Dexter Stefonek case is underrated. The reasons for his murder are mysterious.

I think another of the most underrated cases is one of the most tragic of all time in UM. The case of Mollie Jordan who lost 5 grandchildren in a fire that was apparently set up by a drug dealer who was owed some money by the oldest male grandkid. I remember seeing the case a lot when I was young in the local TV channel but I rarely saw it on lifetime. This was one of the saddest of all the cases I ever saw. The scenes of Ketrick Jordan playing ball with his grandmother tucked at my heart everytime. I just found out there was an update.

I think another of the most underrated cases is one of the most tragic of all time in UM. The case of Mollie Jordan who lost 5 grandchildren in a fire that was apparently set up by a drug dealer who was owed some money by the oldest male grandkid. I remember seeing the case a lot when I was young in the local TV channel but I rarely saw it on lifetime. This was one of the saddest of all the cases I ever saw. The scenes of Ketrick Jordan playing ball with his grandmother tucked at my heart everytime. I just found out there was an update.

Yes, underrated but thankfully solved!

Of the ones mentioned on this thread, here are my favorite "underrated" segments:

Oliver Munson - obvoiusly had something to do with his upcoming court date against Dennis Watson

Gary Simmons/Tom Dixon - that Tom Dixon guy knows what happened and I don't think it had anything to do with black market gas.

Virgin Island Cyanide Poisonings - that segment is so creepy, especially the part where the wife is walking out to her car during the night to meet the murderer and her daughter said that it was unheard of for her mother to go out alone at night.

Leah Roberts - why her jeep was found abondoned, having been driven down an enbankment, is beyond me! Very weird.

Yes, underrated but thankfully solved!
That case was solved? I had no idea! Thank goodness, that one always upset me. I hope the criminal pays for it.

Argentinean ex patriot who went to the US and maybe raped so women- I'm not sure about the details of this case as it was a long time since I saw it. I think he raped a couple of person in the US and went to Mexico and killed a student girlfriend she had. That newspaper image was creepy.


Ricardo Caputo; one of the more disturbing segments UM ever profiled. Also:

The New Orleans serial killer(s)
Michael Self and the cluster killings around Galveston, TX
Judy Smith homicide
Leonard Dirickson disappearance
the fate of Marlys Thomas' infant daughter
Bobby Fuller undetermined death
Shane Stewart/ Sally McNally homicide

4. Star Paluimbo- kind of gets lost with the other missing beautiful girls that UM has shown.


I agree. This was on just the other day. I feel so bad for the family. It seems like she grew up in a loving home only to throw it all away. I wonder if she suffered from some sort of mental break down that caused her to turn to prostitution.

Also some other underrated cases:

1. Pamela June Ray - mother of two who disappeared after parking her car at a motel at 3am, leaving her 2 children inside, while she went to look for a hotel for them to stay in. She was never seen again and her body has never been recovered.

2. Monika Rizzo - woman from San Antonio. San Antonio PD received a few anonymous calls telling themt hat her husband killed her and put her body in a wood chipper.

3. Amy Woetzel - woman who disappeared while allegedly hiking. Her husband is the prime suspect as he has lawyered up and refuses to take a lie detector test.

4. Dave Bocks - NLO employee who was killed/committed suicide while working at NLO. Some suspect he was going to be a whistle-blower and was killed to silence him. I know we talk about this case on here a lot, but I feel that for the most part, its been forgotten about.

I agree. This was on just the other day. I feel so bad for the family. It seems like she grew up in a loving home only to throw it all away. I wonder if she suffered from some sort of mental break down that caused her to turn to prostitution.

Also some other underrated cases:

1. Pamela June Ray - mother of two who disappeared after parking her car at a motel at 3am, leaving her 2 children inside, while she went to look for a hotel for them to stay in. She was never seen again and her body has never been recovered.

2. Monika Rizzo - woman from San Antonio. San Antonio PD received a few anonymous calls telling themt hat her husband killed her and put her body in a wood chipper.

3. Amy Woetzel - woman who disappeared while allegedly hiking. Her husband is the prime suspect as he has lawyered up and refuses to take a lie detector test.

4. Dave Bocks - NLO employee who was killed/committed suicide while working at NLO. Some suspect he was going to be a whistle-blower and was killed to silence him. I know we talk about this case on here a lot, but I feel that for the most part, its been forgotten about.
I don't think you can put backyard bones on this list. it is one of UM featured cases. But after reading these as a very enthusiastic UM fan I'm disappointed that I have still not seen quite a few of the original UM cases. I really hope one day I can get my hands on them somehow. I don't watch the spike episodes for this reason lol.

I don't think you can put backyard bones on this list. it is one of UM featured cases. But after reading these as a very enthusiastic UM fan I'm disappointed that I have still not seen quite a few of the original UM cases. I really hope one day I can get my hands on them somehow. I don't watch the spike episodes for this reason lol.

I agree. This case gained popularity amongst UM fans due to the fact it was on the Bizzare Murders DVD set.


4. Dave Bocks - NLO employee who was killed/committed suicide while working at NLO. Some suspect he was going to be a whistle-blower and was killed to silence him. I know we talk about this case on here a lot, but I feel that for the most part, its been forgotten about.

You kidding?? That case might be the most popular and recognized UM segment!

Every UM fan knows that episode and has been creeped out by it. The whole question about whether Dave Bochs was alive has chilled me to the bone.:eek:

Hugh and Diane Harlan. When was the last time we discussed them? Have we ever? :confused:

The Green and Samitt case. There are scarcely any threads on that one and I find it fascinating, especially that the man similar to the composite was seen by Michelle Samitt leaving the prison from visiting the husband and the campaign against her for the incriminating novel she wrote on the case.

Hugh and Diane Harlan. When was the last time we discussed them? Have we ever? :confused:

I don't remember this case.

The Green and Samitt case. There are scarcely any threads on that one and I find it fascinating, especially that the man similar to the composite was seen by Michelle Samitt leaving the prison from visiting the husband and the campaign against her for the incriminating novel she wrote on the case.

This one either.

The Green and Samitt case was the case of Anita Green, who was murdered by someone paid by her husband, whom she was in the process of divorcing. Michele Samitt was an author who wrote a book about the case; she was threatened, and, I believe, attacked by an unknown person after she confronted Anita's ex-husband about how he may have paid for the hit.

I think that Anita's ex-husband (I can't for the life of me think of his name; anyone remember it?) was convicted and sent to prison for Anita's murder, but the hit-man was never identified.

Charli-Ann

The Green and Samitt case was the case of Anita Green, who was murdered by someone paid by her husband, whom she was in the process of divorcing. Michele Samitt was an author who wrote a book about the case; she was threatened, and, I believe, attacked by an unknown person after she confronted Anita's ex-husband about how he may have paid for the hit.

I think that Anita's ex-husband (I can't for the life of me think of his name; anyone remember it?) was convicted and sent to prison for Anita's murder, but the hit-man was never identified.

Charli-Ann

Is that the one where the ex husband went to the funeral and all he did was talk about how much weight he had lost?

Is that the one where the ex husband went to the funeral and all he did was talk about how much weight he had lost?

Yes!! Only, he was actually in the hospital, IIRC, saying this about an hour after Anita had passed, with her body still in the room. And commenting on how good he looked.

Charli-Ann

Conradina Olsen, who went missing in the early 1900's after going on a trip. Her grandaughter believed that she matched the identity of a woman found murdered by railroad tracks in Missouri around the same time, who was buried alongside the tracks.

The Green and Samitt case was the case of Anita Green, who was murdered by someone paid by her husband, whom she was in the process of divorcing. Michele Samitt was an author who wrote a book about the case; she was threatened, and, I believe, attacked by an unknown person after she confronted Anita's ex-husband about how he may have paid for the hit.

I think that Anita's ex-husband (I can't for the life of me think of his name; anyone remember it?) was convicted and sent to prison for Anita's murder, but the hit-man was never identified.

Charli-Ann

I believe his name was Mel Green and he was convicted of the murder and sentenced to life, through circumstantial evidence. But they never found the hitman. That reenactment always puts me on the edge of my seat when Michelle Samitt sees the man matching the description leaving. Ugh!

Another case that I always watched was the Bill Day case, where his ex wife kidnapped their son, and years later, he tracked them down only to find out that his son had died of Leukemia years earlier and he didn't know. I always wanted to smack that woman.:confused:

The Green and Samitt case. There are scarcely any threads on that one and I find it fascinating, especially that the man similar to the composite was seen by Michelle Samitt leaving the prison from visiting the husband and the campaign against her for the incriminating novel she wrote on the case.


I've always been annoyed by this. Surely when you visit someone in jail, they take note of who you are. I think this case took place somewhere here in the valley. I should look it up sometime. I remember the Stack VO saying Mel weighed almost 500 lbs and then he wanted people to take note how much he'd lost while his wife was in the hospital.

Mastermind (I know you would know) has there been any update on the Richard Caputo case? I wish he could be found and tossed off a bridge somewhere. Such an unnecessary person.

Mastermind (I know you would know) has there been any update on the Richard Caputo case? I wish he could be found and tossed off a bridge somewhere. Such an unnecessary person.

This wasn't directed at me, but I felt compelled to respond because I did watch a Lifetime version of this story semi-recently, and there was an update indicating that Caputo turned himself in. He told authorities that he was having nightmares and was afraid he might kill again, so I presume he confessed. Stack said that Caputo was being evaluated to determine if he was fit to stand trial. I'm not sure what became of him after that. Maybe kadrmas or one of our other awesome legal researchers can find out more.

Three other mysteriest that are totally underrated and not that talked about.

1)Jay Given- this one always fascinated me because for years I had only seen it in spanish. He was the politics insider from East Chicago murdered in a fundraiser. This one is a total travesty to me because I really don't see how Robert Cardona was not charged with anything when it all points to him.

2) Jack Davis Jr.- this one was the one of the boy falling on the stairs in an university which was ruled an accident but there were theories he had been placed there and had been murdered. Spike aired it recently so I'll have to check it out as I don't remember that much but I always remembered the theory of how it had been raining the previous day and yet he was completely dried eventhough his body was supposed to have been there for a couple of days.

3)the Antigua - this is the case of the missing catemaran the antigua and it's two sailors Laurent Hernas and Yves Emmanuel. This one is totally underrated and I don't know why it's not discussed more as it is such a fascinating case. The theories of abduction, murder or in it to steal the boat are all valid and it's a really complex case. Who was the third guy? What was up with that sighting by the police officer in South Carolina? Why was the guy talking to them in Spanish when they were French and why did they understood him and not the cop? It's a really fascinating case to me.

And finally another one just because:

Charles Southern- the professor who joined a cult and dissapeared. Another intriguing case which all probably leads up to the dissapearances tied by the cult of Terri Hoffman. Still some interesting stuff including the Nigerian tribe symbol of death chair thing (what did that had to do with the cult? And why a Nigerian tribal symbol of death? How did he know that).

This wasn't directed at me, but I felt compelled to respond because I did watch a Lifetime version of this story semi-recently, and there was an update indicating that Caputo turned himself in. He told authorities that he was having nightmares and was afraid he might kill again, so I presume he confessed. Stack said that Caputo was being evaluated to determine if he was fit to stand trial. I'm not sure what became of him after that. Maybe kadrmas or one of our other awesome legal researchers can find out more.

Thats good news. Looks like someone finally developed a conscience.

C)Argentinean ex patriot who went to the US and maybe raped so women- I'm not sure about the details of this case as it was a long time since I saw it. I think he raped a couple of person in the US and went to Mexico and killed a student girlfriend she had. That newspaper image was creepy.


That would be Ricardo Caputo. He has been captured 15 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_Caputo

6. Oliver Munson- Another fascinating case that I feel should be discussed more.

A sad, sad case, but the trouble, from a discussion perspective, is that there is little mystery about WHO did it and WHY. If his body was ever found, maybe an arrest could be made, but at this point, probably not even under that circumstance.

My nominee: Matt Flores. Sad, unsolved, seems like there SHOULD be some way to resolve this case, and completely inexplicable. And yet rarely discussed here.

My nominee: Matt Flores. Sad, unsolved, could be a number of different explanations for what happened, and yet the whole thing seems so completely inexplicable. And yet rarely discussed here.

A sad, sad case, but the trouble, from a discussion perspective, is that there is little mystery about WHO did it and WHY. If his body was ever found, maybe an arrest could be made, but at this point, probably not even under that circumstance.

1.All that is needed is for some more people to be brave enough to talk and this case can be broken.

2. We pretty much know the WHO and the WHY of Charlotte Pollis murder as well. That thread was pretty lengthy.

3. Since this is a missing persons cases...there is room in this case to potentially speculate on other possibilities.

It should be pointed out that a big reason why some of these cases are underrated is that so many of our posters have not seen these cases or simply don;t remember them.

2. We pretty much know the WHO and the WHY of Charlotte Pollis murder as well. That thread was pretty lengthy.

Big difference: Paul Pollis actually appears in that segment, offering a different theory of events (however unlikely), and then someone claiming to be him actually made an appearance on this board, to add fuel to the fire.

That segment, in other words, gave something for people to respond to. The Oliver Munson segment comes from only one point of view (probably the correct one), thus limiting discussion.

I think you're right about people not having seen cases as being an issue.

Big difference: Paul Pollis actually appears in that segment, offering a different theory of events (however unlikely), and then someone claiming to be him actually made an appearance on this board, to add fuel to the fire.

That segment, in other words, gave something for people to respond to. The Oliver Munson segment comes from only one point of view (probably the correct one), thus limiting discussion.

Personally, I don;t buy that., but it's besides the point.

It should be pointed out that a big reason why some of these cases are underrated is that so many of our posters have not seen these cases or simply don;t remember them.

I'm not sure it is that they haven't been seen. I mean the Tara Calico segment was really popular and a lot of people hadn't seen that one (including me). Of course it had that picture that made it more popular. But some of these cases have a lot of stuff going on and don't receive the interest some of the other cases (which I think are a lot less interesting) have. I mean you have cases like the first one I mentioned. It has Voodoo, Cyanide, Virgin Islands. A lot of interesting stuff going on that I don't know what else is needed to make it an interesting case.

Frankly, respecting everybodies interest, but I don't understand the fascination with all those wife dissapeared/ husband prime suspect cases that get so much interest around here. It's almost you seen one, you've seen them all. I even get them confused all the time (like Kathy Bonderson and the case of the women who was too fat and so they think the husband needed help to carry her body).

I'd agree with this, rhzunam. The more obvious it is who did it/what happened, the less interesting it is/hard to discuss. So, though missing person cases are my favorite, I have to admit some of them are hard to discuss, specifically the ones where some pretty young girl disappears from wherever. You know, sadly, in a general way what happened and why: the only question left is who.

With the husband/wife ones, you know who and why, the only question left is how.

The best cases for discussion are the ones where there are multiple possible whos, and thus multiple possible whys.

I'm not sure it is that they haven't been seen. I mean the Tara Calico segment was really popular and a lot of people hadn't seen that one (including me).

1. The photo had a lot to do with that. A lot of people were shocked and frightened by the photo.

2. I could be wrong, but wasn;t this segment shown during the final years of Lifetimes run?

3. A lot of our discussion was based on whether the photo was real or not?

4. There was also some new information that came in recently to the case that a poster

I should point out that favoring cases tends to defeat the purpose of UM, in a way. One of the purposes of UM is to bring less popular cases to the fore front so that potential new leads could be created.

if you look at the cases that tend to be favored they tend to be
1. Cases where a suspect semes to act like a jerk in his interview (Everybody in the wheeler segment, Paul Pollis)
2. Cases involving young children. (though that is understable and is actually how it should be done)
3. Cases that were presented in a frightening way. (Dave Bochs is a prime example of this)
4. Cases that were so unusual they were hard to believe (Dakota Double Deaths, Clarence Roberts, Blair adams, The Wackers, Cindy James)
5. Cases involving atrractive women.(Tammy Leppert, Tara Brekenridge(Sp?), Crystal Spencer)

There is also another reason why some cases get favored. But bringing up that reason would cause a massive flame war and potentially divide people on this board. That I will not do.

1. The photo had a lot to do with that. A lot of people were shocked and frightened by the photo.

2. I could be wrong, but wasn;t this segment shown during the final years of Lifetimes run?

3. A lot of our discussion was based on whether the photo was real or not?

4. There was also some new information that came in recently to the case that a poster .

Well I saw a lot of UM during lifetime and I never saw the Calico segment on TV, only on Youtube. And I read a lot of people who commented they hadn't seen the segment so I guess they were the same boat as me. I think the picture is really interesting stuff and it makes the case special.

I should point out that favoring cases tends to defeat the purpose of UM, in a way. One of the purposes of UM is to bring less popular cases to the fore front so that potential new leads could be created.

Well what is the main purpose of the show? Is it to help out or entertain? I believe is the latter although helping out is also a big part of it. But I wouldn't guess or blame that some cases are more interesting than others. I don't know maybe it was different for me because of not living in the US but I never saw the episodes as thinking I was going to help out some way (although 1 or 2 cases did ended being solved in my area).


if you look at the cases that tend to be favored they tend to be
1. Cases where a suspect semes to act like a jerk in his interview (Everybody in the wheeler segment, Paul Pollis)
2. Cases involving young children. (though that is understable and is actually how it should be done)
3. Cases that were presented in a frightening way. (Dave Bochs is a prime example of this)
4. Cases that were so unusual they were hard to believe (Dakota Double Deaths, Clarence Roberts, Blair adams, The Wackers, Cindy James)
5. Cases involving atrractive women.(Tammy Leppert, Tara Brekenridge(Sp?), Crystal Spencer).

I agree with a lot. 3 and 4 especially hold on to my theory that the most times a cases has something going on, the better it is. It's no wonder why cases like Kurt Sova, Blair Adams or the Dakota deaths are interesting to so many people. To me the wonder is why there are cases which would seem fit the mold for popularity like the Voodo deaths or the Antigua's dissapearance and yet aren't that popular at all. That's what makes me wonder.


There is also another reason why some cases get favored. But bringing up that reason would cause a massive flame war and potentially divide people on this board. That I will not do.

You shouldn't have mentioned it as by leaving it open you probably attract a lot more attention that by mentioning it.

What is it? Race? I'll say it, it definitely has a weight on the popularity of some of the cases. Especially on the whole "Missing White Woman Syndrome" that seems to also lie on the board (maybe that's why the wife disssapearing cases are so popular here). But althought it's part there are too many exceptions. The Keith Warren case is really popular and he was black. And the French sailors as well as Jay Given were white and their cases are exciting yet not popular at all. I think it can play a part especially in certain cases but it's not the whole picture at all. In fact the popularity of certain UM cases is definitely an unsolved mystery.

The Tommy Ziegler case, definitely. A good final appeal case, with two sides to break down, a person probably wrongly convicted, and a probable cover-up to boot (people love conspiracies, after all). And yet it has generated very little discussion compared to some other Final Appeal segments. I did a lengthy break down of it in this thread (http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=164232&highlight=%22Tommy+Ziegler%22) once, which didn't draw a lot of response; it looks like it has been more recently discussed here (http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=205728&highlight=%22Tommy+Ziegler%22), but even here not a lot compared to other Final Appeal segments.

Hey Justin, I had posted on the Hugh/Diane Harlan case a couple years back but no one ever replied to it. If you check out my previous posts log you'll find it. If you have any comments/replies to the post please let me know

Hey Justin, I had posted on the Hugh/Diane Harlan case a couple years back but no one ever replied to it. If you check out my previous posts log you'll find it. If you have any comments/replies to the post please let me know

Thanks, I'll see if I can find and bump it.

2 that come to mind that I rarely, if ever, see on reruns.

The guy who was a hostage held in the middle east who came home and started getting the phone calls from "l'enfant" that drove him crazy

The story about star charts done from birthday info and how the chart expert picked out serial killers from piles of normal charts.

2 that come to mind that I rarely, if ever, see on reruns.

The guy who was a hostage held in the middle east who came home and started getting the phone calls from "l'enfant" that drove him crazy

The story about star charts done from birthday info and how the chart expert picked out serial killers from piles of normal charts.

I wouldn't consider L'enfant underrated. It has been discussed more than other cases here. And I'm not a fan at all of the 2nd case. I think it was one of the weakest cases and maybe that's also the believe of some people but that just my opinion. I could be wrong about that.

Morgan Nick & Jacqueline Castenada- doesn;t get as much recognition as the other missing children. Which I think is a crime!
yeah i remember these cases, I really wish they would find a suspect in both cases, i really hope and pray Morgan Nick is alive, but it sounds like a sexual preditor case while Jacqueline i feel got kidnapped by some woman or man who wanted to have a child and i feel Jacqueline is alive.

Morgan Nick & Jacqueline Castenada- doesn;t get as much recognition as the other missing children. Which I think is a crime!
yeah i remember these cases, I really wish they would find a suspect in both cases, i really hope and pray Morgan Nick is alive, but it sounds like a sexual preditor case while Jacqueline i feel got kidnapped by some woman or man who wanted to have a child and i feel Jacqueline is alive.

Agreed on all counts. I believe there is a very good chance Jacquelin is alive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwcarolina
Morgan Nick & Jacqueline Castenada- doesn;t get as much recognition as the other missing children. Which I think is a crime!
yeah i remember these cases, I really wish they would find a suspect in both cases, i really hope and pray Morgan Nick is alive, but it sounds like a sexual preditor case while Jacqueline i feel got kidnapped by some woman or man who wanted to have a child and i feel Jacqueline is alive.

Agreed on all counts. I believe there is a very good chance Jacquelin is alive.

I second that. Jacqueline as a baby, has value. She either was raised by the abductor or was sold into an illegal adoptive service. I wouldn't be surprised if mother was being trailed all that time by a "spotter" and they noticed that she might put the baby down. When it happened they moved quickly. This may be some major operation to kidnap babies and sell them on the black market to parents in other countries.

This case could ironically be solved by Jacqueline Castenada herself!!! :eek:

She may decide to look into her life and may come across this segment and put two and two together!

-Definitely the zip gun bomber. When I first saw the segment, I was like, how have I never heard of this case before?

-Katherine Korzilius. To me this is a truly baffling mystery; the evidence really seems to point in both directions (she was killed/it was an accident).

-Cynthia Anderson. I'm not sure if this was ever solved, but the segment was extremely disturbing, as I used to work as a secretary in the same type of setup.

-Dr. Sneha Phillips. I am shocked this isn't discussed more often on here -- to me this is yet another baffling head-scratcher whose evidence seems to indicate that she was the victim of foul play AND she disappeared willingly AND she perished in the 9/11 attacks!

-The deaths of Scott Johnson (little boy in AZ) and his friend. Who the hell killed those kids, and why doesn't anyone seem to care?

-Anthonette Cayedito. Who snatched this girl, and was she really seen at that restaurant? How did the abductors know she had an "Uncle Joe?"

-Dr. Sneha Phillips. I am shocked this isn't discussed more often on here -- to me this is yet another baffling head-scratcher whose evidence seems to indicate that she was the victim of foul play AND she disappeared willingly AND she perished in the 9/11 attacks!

It actually has been discussed a few times here. Check the thread.

-Cynthia Anderson. I'm not sure if this was ever solved, but the segment was extremely disturbing, as I used to work as a secretary in the same type of setup.

This one too has been discussed for a while.

It actually has been discussed a few times here. Check the thread.



This one too has been discussed for a while.


Are we talking about underrated cases that have not been discussed on here or just underrated cases in the public eye? I would agree that Cynthia Anderson and Sneha Phillips are both underrated. I am actually shocked that the Phillips case hasnt gotten more exposure than just UM with the possible 9/11 ties.

It actually has been discussed a few times here. Check the thread.



This one too has been discussed for a while.

Oh, I realize they've been discussed here; I'm just surprised they haven't been *more* discussed (on, say, a Cindy James level). To me, their level of mysteriousness could merit endless discussion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind
It actually has been discussed a few times here. Check the thread.



This one too has been discussed for a while.

Oh, I realize they've been discussed here; I'm just surprised they haven't been *more* discussed (on, say, a Cindy James level). To me, their level of mysteriousness could merit endless discussion!

Oh, agree. The Sneha Phillips case is just as mysterious.

I think a big reason is that not everyone has had access to the segment.

Cindy James was on the released DVDs.

As a long time vintage sports card collector I have always thought about Dennis Walker and his huge and valuable Sports Memoribilla Collection

Dennis had two T-206 Honus Wagner cards

The most valuable baseball card by far in history

In fact this case may only feel underated to me and other sports card collectors

But as a kid I would always day dream of finding Walkers collection in a storage shed or some attic

As a long time vintage sports card collector I have always thought about Dennis Walker and his huge and valuable Sports Memoribilla Collection

Dennis had two T-206 Honus Wagner cards

The most valuable baseball card by far in history

In fact this case may only feel underated to me and other sports card collectors

But as a kid I would always day dream of finding Walkers collection in a storage shed or some attic

This case is a really fascinating case. I used to be a baseball fan and at that time I was a sports card collector and it resonated with me yet I rarely saw it (I think only twice). I think it's definitely and underrated case and it has to do with how rare it is.

This case is a really fascinating case. I used to be a baseball fan and at that time I was a sports card collector and it resonated with me yet I rarely saw it (I think only twice). I think it's definitely and underrated case and it has to do with how rare it is.

Good call rhzunam bacause I only saw that segment one time and everytime I watched UM I hoped they would show that segment again!

I just watched it yesterday and it was great to see it again after all these years

I did a Google search on Dennis Walker and could not find any type of updated info on the case

What if his collection is still just in storage somewhere?

Was Dennis killed and his collection snatched from him?

Did he sell his collection to pay off his debts?

So many questions, does anybody have any type of update on Dennis Walker?

Adam Hecht. The 23 year old rich guy who went missing after befriending a homeless bum on the streets of California. He's still missing with no whereabouts or clues.

I think I remember this one - was there one point in the recreation where the bum is mysteriously waving his hands over his meal to "bless" it, and the guy has to explain to his friends/parents what he's doing? I was just thinking about this case a few weeks ago and wondering if anything had developed...

What about Jack Brown? Another one of those real estate murders, but I haven't seen a lot of discussion about it.

Good call rhzunam bacause I only saw that segment one time and everytime I watched UM I hoped they would show that segment again!

I just watched it yesterday and it was great to see it again after all these years

I did a Google search on Dennis Walker and could not find any type of updated info on the case

What if his collection is still just in storage somewhere?

Was Dennis killed and his collection snatched from him?

Did he sell his collection to pay off his debts?

So many questions, does anybody have any type of update on Dennis Walker?

I think its very possible its in storage somewhere and has never been found.

I mean, if he had sold it or someone stole it you can't help but think surely at least some of it would have surfaced by now somewhere.

Be a helluva thing to stumble upon thats for sure............

Hugh and Diane Harlan. When was the last time we discussed them? Have we ever? :confused:Good call. I remember this case well since the husband resembled Rasputin. :D

How about the case of Jack Davis Jr? The college student who died under mysterious circumstances. It's an interesting case that is rarely discussed.

Michael Johnson & Rochelle Robinson deserves a mention as well. Supposedly both of them were murdered by satanists. Of course, there's probably to it than just that.

Good call. I remember this case well since the husband resembled Rasputin. :D

How about the case of Jack Davis Jr? The college student who died under mysterious circumstances. It's an interesting case that is rarely discussed.

Michael Johnson & Rochelle Robinson deserves a mention as well. Supposedly both of them were murdered by satanists. Of course, there's probably to it than just that.



The Jack Davis and Johnson/Robinson cases were the two I was going to mention as well.

Also, I saw a case where these two friends both in the military both ended up dying under very mysterious circumstances wthin months of each other. I cannot think of these guys' names because I have seen this eppie once on tv. I remember from the dvds Crystaldawn had.

William Bradford Bishop--- okay maybe this one isn't underrated to most but the fact that this case is so frighteningly similar to the List case. Even more baffling is that Bishop has never be captured after the crimes...assuming he didn't commit suicide shortly afterwards.

And then there's the case of a young black child named Dimitric who was murdered and found in his mother's trunk. This case has puzzled me since the very first time I saw it because the investigators interviewed in the segment seem to make it a point of stating that Dimitic's body was very clean, especially for a young boy his age. The mother was accused of his murder but later acquitted. It was always my feeling that maybe this child was rough housing with other youths in the area and one of them accidentally killed him. However, the fact that he was clean and placed in the mom's trunk tells me an adult was involved in some fashion. I don't another child would have the foresight to clean up a body and place it in the trunk but that's just my opinion.

One more: the case of the Fredrick and Cedrick Young.

Also, I saw a case where these two friends both in the military both ended up dying under very mysterious circumstances wthin months of each other. I cannot think of these guys' names because I have seen this eppie once on tv. I remember from the dvds Crystaldawn had.

Michael Carmichael and Billy Ray Hargrove.

Again on Carmichael/Hargrove, I've never understood why the Burgwinkel and Lankford segments enjoyed so much discussion, relatively. In my opinion, there's far more of a conspiracy case to make there.

In terms of "military" segments, I've always felt that Paul Whipkey and Jeffrey Digman were very underrated as well.

The Bo Tanner case. Bigamy, vandalism, planning his escape and leaving the wife behind to pick up the pieces.....classic UM right here.

Did they ever find him?

Again on Carmichael/Hargrove, I've never understood why the Burgwinkel and Lankford segments enjoyed so much discussion, relatively. In my opinion, there's far more of a conspiracy case to make there.

In terms of "military" segments, I've always felt that Paul Whipkey and Jeffrey Digman were very underrated as well.

I think in terms of Burgwinkel, there was a lot more bizzare elements to that case that made it more memorable. Also the fact that it was a missing persons case, which made it even more eerie.

I agree that Whipkey and Digman deserve more conversation.

C)Argentinean ex patriot who went to the US and maybe raped so women- I'm not sure about the details of this case as it was a long time since I saw it. I think he raped a couple of person in the US and went to Mexico and killed a student girlfriend she had. That newspaper image was creepy.


Was this the Ricardo Caputo segment? UM showed a page in a SF newspaper. One of his victims had her photo published in the paper and the quality was very poor.

In terms of "military" segments, I've always felt that Paul Whipkey and Jeffrey Digman were very underrated as well.

Refresh my memory...who's Paul Whipkey?

Refresh my memory...who's Paul Whipkey?

Sure. Paul Whipkey was an Army aviation lieutenant assigned to Ft Ord, CA in the late 1950s. His car was found abandoned in Death Valley after he'd been AWOL for over a month (rendering him a deserter). Besides this incident, Whipkey had an impeccable military record, and this act was wildly out of character for him.

In 1957, Whipkey was temporarily assigned to Camp Desert Rock, NV as an observation pilot for atomic bomb testing. He suffered a number of physical ailments afterwards, at one point having to have all of his teeth extracted. He apparently underwent a change in personality--becoming "withdrawn and somber"--and disappeared shortly after.

The military failed to follow procedure in handing over his personal belongings to his next-of-kin. The Army failed to begin a search for his body until nine months after his car was found (despite the strange circumstances surrounding it; there were cigarette butts all around the vehicle, but Whipkey did not smoke). His brother met with a lot of secretive behavior concerning the disappearance--pretty similar to a lot of the stuff in the Carmichael/Hargrove segment.


As a sidenote, while doing some research months ago, I found out Whipkey is considered a "Vietnam-era MIA". Apparently a new investigation was opened on his case sometime during the early '80s, when public outcry at the possibility of there being soldiers still imprisoned or missing in Vietnam was huge. What became of it I have no idea, but apparently some of it is available through FOIA.

Thank you, I remember that segment now. Both of those segments (Whipkey & Carmichael) seem full of military cover-up. Scary.

Was this the Ricardo Caputo segment? UM showed a page in a SF newspaper. One of his victims had her photo published in the paper and the quality was very poor.

Yes it was Ricardo Caputo.

Paul Whipkey's case is the best of the military conspiracies...who were the men he was seen talking with? It really sounds like he joined an assignment and was killed at some later date.

I'm not sure how much it's discussed on here, but David Merrifield. Who had in in for that guy?

I'm surprised there are not more threads here devoted to the bizarre case of Patrick Kelly, the film student who was killed in a hit-and-run accident in Tijuana. While he was in a coma in the hospital, someone else was using his ATM card and car, as the car was driven out of the parking lot it was originally parked at and then returned there a couple days later completely caked in dirt and mud!

The Mexican authorities ran a picture of Patrick in his hospital bed in the local newspaper in hopes that someone would ID him, and he was originally misidentified as someone else because the cops gave out the wrong info about his height, weight and nationality! After he died, he was on the verge of being buried as a John Doe in an unmarked grave and the only reason his mother was able to track him down was because his bank left a message on his answering machine about the overdraft of withdrawls on his account. Otherwise, she may have NEVER found out what happened to him!

An autopsy clearly showed that he was beaten badly before the hit-and-run and appeared to be running from something when it happened, along with another individual who was never identified. Such a strange case that just reeks of corruption from the Tijuana police :mad: !

Here's one that I've never seen on here, although it probably has been discussed. I first saw it many years ago during the original NBC runs.

An elderly gentleman disappears one day. His family is worried that he wandered off and died, but there are some weird clues that point to him faking his disappearance. Anyway, an update comes along saying that he was found - apparently, he was a fugitive from a crime many years ago that he claims not to have committed or to have just a minimal role in. He disappeared because as he approached age 65 and was becoming eligible for retirement/social security benefits, his secret was going to be exposed (he had been living under an assumed identity). Anyway, in some respects, there was a happy ending since he was reunited with his family, but then you had to realize that he'd have to explain all this to them, not to mention face up to his past.

This case really freaked me out when I was younger mainly because they showed a "what if" clip of him passing out and falling into a stream, presumably to his death. Anyway, I've not seen it discussed much on here, and it remains one of my favorites.

Here's one that I've never seen on here, although it probably has been discussed. I first saw it many years ago during the original NBC runs.

An elderly gentleman disappears one day. His family is worried that he wandered off and died, but there are some weird clues that point to him faking his disappearance. Anyway, an update comes along saying that he was found - apparently, he was a fugitive from a crime many years ago that he claims not to have committed or to have just a minimal role in. He disappeared because as he approached age 65 and was becoming eligible for retirement/social security benefits, his secret was going to be exposed (he had been living under an assumed identity). Anyway, in some respects, there was a happy ending since he was reunited with his family, but then you had to realize that he'd have to explain all this to them, not to mention face up to his past.

This case really freaked me out when I was younger mainly because they showed a "what if" clip of him passing out and falling into a stream, presumably to his death. Anyway, I've not seen it discussed much on here, and it remains one of my favorites.

I remember that one. It was significant because it was one of the few cases where the missing person turned out to be alive and well. There was also that case with the guy who was the fisherman. He was alive but had severe amnesia.

No one here seems to like Resurrection Mary and she's my favorite.

What about the zip gun bomber? That individual was never caught. I'm always really surprised at the lack of discussion about him/her in true crime circles. That was a series of serious, unusual crimes--especially considering the time. I think the first attack was in 1982 or something.

Similarly, I think the Pat Robertson/Lakewood Church bomber doesn't get nearly the discussion one might suspect.

Earlier, Mastermind mentioned that he didn't want to mention a certain subject and start a massive flame war on the board. Personally, I think we've all been getting along too well lately and could use an old fashioned 90s style message board flame fight. :D I kid, I kid....

Love you guys! Really! We have a great group of regular contributors here, and even some of our occasional "hit and run" posters provide some good comic relief.

ON TOPIC: Oliver Munson's case has already been named in this thread, but I have to agree. They did seem to show it fairly often, but it doesn't seem to get too much discussion or be at the forefront of general UM viewer's minds.

The unsolved cases involving a truly innocent victim are the ones that bother me the most. IMO, Oliver Munson fits this category. I believe he was described as a quiet, unassuming, modest man, who was a good school teacher and enjoyed some of the small simple things in his life, such as his family, and the new car that he'd finally been able to purchase.

It was that car that got him into undeserved trouble with a major criminal and the general consensus here seems to be that the dangerous criminal was behind Mr. Munson's disappearance and likely murder, since Mr. Munson was attempting to do the right thing and get this guy prosecuted for his many crimes.

A good man, who is a productive citizen dies and the bad guy basically gets away with it. Very sad.

Along the same lines as Traci, what about the Lisa Ziegert case? This one is so upsetting because she was a young woman making a big contribution to young people's lives. She also seemed like a geniunely nice person, as did her parents. SO sad.

Oh yeah, I just watched her segment again a couple days ago.

I was thinking the same thing. She contributed to much to her students, who IIRC, had special educational needs.

One of her students cried when she talked about losing her. IMO, it's almost like taking a close family member away from kids like that. They loved her and her work with them showed that she really cared about them all.

What a shame....

2) Jack Davis Jr.

I agree completely. That was such a weird case. Definitely one of those segments in which a lot of information was left out, for whatever reason. I'm surprised it hasn't received more attention.

What about Jack Brown? Another one of those real estate murders, but I haven't seen a lot of discussion about it.

I think that's a fascinating segment, what with talk of that "safe deposit box" and all that. Scary.

Jack Davis Jr, that one, I don't know, that one, I actually think he was murdered and that the police did what they often do when an intoxicated young person dies, they just write it off as some drunk college kid who caused their own death. That cops lame answer about sent me off the deep end, 'oh, well I am not convinced that he could not have slid down the wall and broken the fall somewhat'. Is he kidding me? Okay, if Jack Davis Jr fell down from above he would not have fallen against the wall and 'slid' how you slid against a solid, straight brick wall is beyond me? No, Davis did not fall, he had no broken bones that were spoken of, no signs that he had fallen as if he had, the injuries would have been there.

As Dr. Wecht said and as he and I (when I say this, I do not mean him and I together, but he in his college years and myself in mine) have been in college and drunk walking around campus in the late evening, when things are by and large shut down, if I was going to go pee, I might look around to make sure no one was watching, but other than that, I would not think to go down a stairwell and hide down there to go pee if nobody was around. It just wouldn't happen. An intoxicated person would be far more likely to just urinate out in the open.

So it makes me think Jack Davis Jr was beaten somewhere else and basically knocking on death's door. I think it was a drunken brawl that got out of hand and then the people that did it to him tried to nurse him back to health themselves but when they saw he was either dead or going to die, that is when they in the dead of night moved him to that stairwell.

By all accounts, Davis was heavily intoxicated on the night he was last seen, and for him to have no alcohol in his system, meaning no alcohol at the time of death, he would have had to have been alive over 24 hours after he was last seen. Plus for days before the body was found, heavily rains had been in the area yet neither Davis's body nor his clothes were wet? No, he was murdered, even if it was not a premeditated or intentional murder, someone else caused his death, then they dumped him at the bottom of that stairwell, knowing full well that the cops would just write it off as a drunken college kid who took a tumble down the stairs and thus there would be no investigation.

In regards to Oliver Munson, yes from the sounds of it, a good man, an Industrial Arts Teacher at a Junior High School, who was good to his students and to fellow staff members and well liked and respected. It appears Munson's one hobby outside of school, working on and restoring cars cost him his life. This Dennis Watson, I feel was behind Munson's murder. Watson, it seems whenever someone was going to testify against him, suddenly they wound up 'missing' or dead. In the early 70's, a witness against him who was scheduled to testify against him in an Armed Robbery trial was killed and his car set afire. Watson was actually charged with first degree murder for killing the witness but strangely, the big witness against him in that case also died shortly before trial and the murder charges against Watson were dropped and he was released. Then with Munson disappearing in 1984, three days before he was to testify against Watson, I think Watson thought the charges would be dropped against him again. When they were not, Watson pled guilty, and was sentenced to 10 years in prison. He was paroled in 1989 and he has since disappeared, his whereabouts unknown.

In regards to Oliver Munson, yes from the sounds of it, a good man, an Industrial Arts Teacher at a Junior High School, who was good to his students and to fellow staff members and well liked and respected. It appears Munson's one hobby outside of school, working on and restoring cars cost him his life. This Dennis Watson, I feel was behind Munson's murder. Watson, it seems whenever someone was going to testify against him, suddenly they wound up 'missing' or dead. In the early 70's, a witness against him who was scheduled to testify against him in an Armed Robbery trial was killed and his car set afire. Watson was actually charged with first degree murder for killing the witness but strangely, the big witness against him in that case also died shortly before trial and the murder charges against Watson were dropped and he was released. Then with Munson disappearing in 1984, three days before he was to testify against Watson, I think Watson thought the charges would be dropped against him again. When they were not, Watson pled guilty, and was sentenced to 10 years in prison. He was paroled in 1989 and he has since disappeared, his whereabouts unknown.

I remember reading somewhere that a judge had declared him legally dead just two years after he disappeared--due to a "presumed homicide".

What I'm simply ignorant of is this:

1. How does one legally declare someone dead by a "presumed homicide"? What specific conditions must exist?

2. If one can be declared legally dead by a "presumed homicide", can the supposed accused be tried for that murder?


This sounds like something you might know, kadrmas.

Hmm Meg the Egg, well this issue is a bit tricky: I do feel to answer your 2nd question, that I do not feel that Dennis Watson or anyone else suspected could be tried of murder because the judge ruled Oliver Munson's death 'presumed homicide'. But I am assuming this was a Civil Court Judge that made this ruling or a probate court or whatever court was handling Munson's estate, and in those courts, the burden of proof is a lot lower than in a criminal court. You only have to prove things based on a preponderance of the evidence. So basically all you would have to really do is prove the chances are better than not that Oliver Munson is dead and that the chances are better than not that his death was caused by homicide.

If this case was presented before a grand jury, Dennis Watson would probably be indicted but the problem is, once this got to trial, assuming Watson took it there. I think so much time has passed, they might try to get him to plead out to a lesser charge, just to finally give Oliver's family answers and possibly lead to Olivers remains so they could give him a proper burial. But I am not sure if Watson would be willing to do that? The guy sounded like a career criminal and somebody that basically wouldn't tell you anything, he would deny everything up and down the board unless something was in it for him. Now granted, if Watson were indicted he would have to be tried under 1984 laws.

I'm not sure that any case could truly be considered underrated. UM has somewhere in the avenue of 1500 segments, and it is next to impossible for anyone to remember all of the details of every single case. Certain cases just stick with certain people. For example, one of the cases I've had a considerable amount of input in over the years was the Larry Race case. I recall that Larry and Debbie were married on May 11, 1968. How do I remember that? Because my parents were married on the EXACT same day.

Additionally, not everyone has seen every case. For years, I would tune in to UM on Lifetime casually, if I happened to have that day off, etc. I would see some cases a few times, and some not at all. (As time passed, my interest in UM grew even more, partially because few shows on today interest me.) But in any event, not everyone has seen every case.

Conradina Olsen, who went missing in the early 1900's after going on a trip. Her grandaughter believed that she matched the identity of a woman found murdered by railroad tracks in Missouri around the same time, who was buried alongside the tracks.

I thought that was one of the stupidest cases ever profiled on UM. The woman on the tracks was mentioned in contemporaneous newspaper articles 20-30 years before Olsen disappeared. It's impossible for it to be her. The segment even states this, which begs the question as to why it was ever produced.

I thought that was one of the stupidest cases ever profiled on UM. The woman on the tracks was mentioned in contemporaneous newspaper articles 20-30 years before Olsen disappeared. It's impossible for it to be her. The segment even states this, which begs the question as to why it was ever produced.

Yeah, the way UM attempted to tie in the two separate events (the unidentified murder victim and Olsen) was over the top stupid. There wasn't any credible historical evidence linking the two cases, except for some psychic mumbo jumbo and wishful thinking on the granddaughter's part.

I like historical cases, so it's too bad UM didn't focus on either the murder victim or the missing woman (preferably the murder) instead of making a BS segment.

Jack Davis Jr, that one, I don't know, that one, I actually think he was murdered and that the police did what they often do when an intoxicated young person dies, they just write it off as some drunk college kid who caused their own death. That cops lame answer about sent me off the deep end, 'oh, well I am not convinced that he could not have slid down the wall and broken the fall somewhat'. Is he kidding me? Okay, if Jack Davis Jr fell down from above he would not have fallen against the wall and 'slid' how you slid against a solid, straight brick wall is beyond me? No, Davis did not fall, he had no broken bones that were spoken of, no signs that he had fallen as if he had, the injuries would have been there.

As I originally wrote in the thread about this case, I'm surprised that no one has brought up the possibility of police corruption here. I've never gotten the vibe that the police were completely incompetent, but more that a cop or someone else in power could have had a son in one of the fraternities who may have played a part in Jack Davis' death.

The most illogical part of the foul play theory is why anyone would have taken the huge chance of moving Jack's to the bottom of stairwell on campus instead of disposing of it somewhere else. However, if the corrupt cop theory is true, I could totally see them advising or helping whoever was responsible to plant the body there, so it could be written off as an accidental death. They could certainly have had the influence to close the investigation very quickly and cover up the major discrepancies.

Hell, if that was their plan, it did work successfully for awhile since it was nearly two years later before a reporter decided to point out that the accidental death theory didn't hold water and Dr. Wecht got involved. I think the two-year gap could have made a huge difference since if any students were involved, they could have already graduated and it would be harder to track everyone down and piece together what happened that weekend.

Paul Whipkey screams of disappeared into the system of military I wouldn't even say it's a certainly that he died somewhere serving....meaning he could have entered the intelligence specter of the government agency and didn't expect it to be forever. Did you see the footnotes about his good friend disappearing about 2 weeks later while in an airplane and that friend's body being found a year later in an airplane crash in a different airplane.


Sure. Paul Whipkey was an Army aviation lieutenant assigned to Ft Ord, CA in the late 1950s. His car was found abandoned in Death Valley after he'd been AWOL for over a month (rendering him a deserter). Besides this incident, Whipkey had an impeccable military record, and this act was wildly out of character for him.

In 1957, Whipkey was temporarily assigned to Camp Desert Rock, NV as an observation pilot for atomic bomb testing. He suffered a number of physical ailments afterwards, at one point having to have all of his teeth extracted. He apparently underwent a change in personality--becoming "withdrawn and somber"--and disappeared shortly after.

The military failed to follow procedure in handing over his personal belongings to his next-of-kin. The Army failed to begin a search for his body until nine months after his car was found (despite the strange circumstances surrounding it; there were cigarette butts all around the vehicle, but Whipkey did not smoke). His brother met with a lot of secretive behavior concerning the disappearance--pretty similar to a lot of the stuff in the Carmichael/Hargrove segment.


As a sidenote, while doing some research months ago, I found out Whipkey is considered a "Vietnam-era MIA". Apparently a new investigation was opened on his case sometime during the early '80s, when public outcry at the possibility of there being soldiers still imprisoned or missing in Vietnam was huge. What became of it I have no idea, but apparently some of it is available through FOIA.