The one story that always stuck with me and that I always wondered about was that of Pamela June Ray. She was a mother of two who was driving her two children from Atlanta to Panama City, Florida. Early in the morning around 5:30am on 8/12/92, she parked her car in the Wilhite Apartments and left her kids in the back along with her purse and keys while she looked for a motel room. Witnesses say they heard a woman scream near the pool of the complex and described an unidentified Caucasian male who had been seen earlier that day urinating in public. She was never found, nor was her killer.

A police officer who saw the unidentified man went under hypnosis and described the man he saw. A suspect fitting that description was arrested for a different sexual assault but was never tied to Ray's disappearance.

Possible new leads developed in Ray's case in 2000 but authorities would not elaborate on the circumstances. Her case remains open and unsolved. This one always seemed creepy to me. Does anyone else remember it?

I remember this one. I guess what always struck me as odd was the fact that the children were left in the car, yet they never mention if they saw anything or knew anything. If they heard their mother scream, wouldn't they have investigated? This case was very strange. I don't believe she was ever found.

Hi Hambone,
I am posting some links to Pamela Ray's case, courtesy of the Doe Network and Charley Project. The Charley Project goes more into detail with her story, not only with the circumstances of her disappearance, but also with some legal troubles that the family got into, sometime before then. I never kenw about this aspect of her story, as it was never mentioned on UM. Supposedly 400,000 dollars was mistakenly transferred into her dad's account, and she had helped to spend the money, and she, her father (and possibly her husband) and several family members were taken to court for it. I don't think the court case was related to her disappearance, but was just an unfortunate coincidence.
I hope that this case is solved someday. Unfortunately I don't think that Ms. Ray is alive, after all these years, and because of what is known about the night she disappeared (i.e. the screams at night, and how someone saw her following a strange man).
Biscuit girl, I too was curious about the fact that the children were left in the car. The case also mentioned how it was highly unlikely for Ms. ray to leave her children. It is weird that they would never have seen or mentioned anything. i wonder what they might have known, or seen.

The links:
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/ray_pamela.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/595dffl.html

Re: Leaving her kids in the car....

I was always under the impression that the children were probably asleep in the car and she didn't want to wake them. She probably thought she was checking out a room, locked the doors, and expected to be back in five minutes. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing for an attentive mother to do. She was probably desparate to find a hotel room and was, unfortunately, too trusting of someone who offered to help.

Hi nowheregirl,
THat sounds like a very likely theory! It makes sense to me as I think back to the details...it was 3:30 in the morning when she pulled into Florida, after driving all night, and with all the other motels in the area either being closed at that hour, or having no vacancy. Pamela Ray probably was desperate to find a room, and she and her children had probably been running on little sleep. I do think that it is possible that she put misguided trust into the stranger who abducted and probably murdered her.

Thanks for the links@

What I've always thought was odd is the fact that they say her kids were sleeping in the back seat of the car so she left them and her purse in the car and locked it and went to find a motel. Well if she truly was looking for a motel, why didn't she bring her purse? Very odd. I'd also love to know what "new evidence" emerged in 2000 that had the police re-investigate the case.

Yeah, this always confused me too - it was one of the short stories but very sad and always stood out to me. For the most part I agree the guy the cop saw probably was the guy responsible for (likely) kidnapping and later murdering Pam?

But... if the people in the surrounding hotels (as Stack said) were woken up by her screaming, why wouldn't the kids in the car hear it too since they were closer? I remember the son was a little older and bigger (like 13ish) and even tho he obviously wouldn't be big enough to take on a grown guy, I'd think especially if it were his own mom in danger, at least the son would've tried to help.

P.S. Is it just me or was that town like the Stone Ages for 1992? Even then I was thinking WTF about the hotels not having phones. Sadly I bet if they did, this could've turned out way differently/

i just think that when she screamed her kids were sleeping and therefore dint hear the screams.....however its troubling to believe that no one in the hotel area dint hear the screams...my feeling was that she was abducted and possibly raped and murdered. This is a sad case for sure....

What I've always thought was odd is the fact that they say her kids were sleeping in the back seat of the car so she left them and her purse in the car and locked it and went to find a motel. Well if she truly was looking for a motel, why didn't she bring her purse? Very odd. I'd also love to know what "new evidence" emerged in 2000 that had the police re-investigate the case.

Not that it's much relevance but in the re-enactment it showed that the boy was actually sleeping in the front passenger seat of the car and Pamela placed her purse into the front drivers side. You'd have thought this would have woken the boy and maybe he saw something or saw the male (although not sure if the re-enactment is fact perfect).

The financial aspect is a very strange angle and obviously we don't know all the details, but was it not quite odd that the husband didn't go along for the vacation? Could it be that the husband actually had her kidnapped for some unknown reason (possibly related to the money)?

P.S. Is it just me or was that town like the Stone Ages for 1992? Even then I was thinking WTF about the hotels not having phones.

Definitely, but as well as this thought it looked and seemed a very seedy area. Not somewhere you'd want to be with the kids at 5 in the morning. I think even if you were locked in your motel room you wouldn't feel safe.

Not that it's much relevance but in the re-enactment it showed that the boy was actually sleeping in the front passenger seat of the car and Pamela placed her purse into the front drivers side. You'd have thought this would have woken the boy and maybe he saw something or saw the male (although not sure if the re-enactment is fact perfect).

The financial aspect is a very strange angle and obviously we don't know all the details, but was it not quite odd that the husband didn't go along for the vacation? Could it be that the husband actually had her kidnapped for some unknown reason (possibly related to the money)?



Definitely, but as well as this thought it looked and seemed a very seedy area. Not somewhere you'd want to be with the kids at 5 in the morning. I think even if you were locked in your motel room you wouldn't feel safe.

In no way would I blame Pamela June Ray for what happened but sheesh, if she would have just stopped around 10 or 11pm the previous night and rented a hotel, none of this would have happened. Why run the risk of driving straight through and then possibly have to sleep in your car due to no vacancy or the motel not being opened? Why did she zero in on that particular motel? Supposedly (i cant remember which it was) but either the front office door was locked or there was no one there so she walked around looking for someone. Why not just go to the next hotel you see and see if someone is on duty? I find it hard to believe that that particular hotel was the only one in that area.

Also, there was apparently a lead in the case back in 2000. I wonder what the lead was and whatever became of it?

In no way would I blame Pamela June Ray for what happened but sheesh, if she would have just stopped around 10 or 11pm the previous night and rented a hotel, none of this would have happened. Why run the risk of driving straight through and then possibly have to sleep in your car due to no vacancy or the motel not being opened? Why did she zero in on that particular motel? Supposedly (i cant remember which it was) but either the front office door was locked or there was no one there so she walked around looking for someone. Why not just go to the next hotel you see and see if someone is on duty? I find it hard to believe that that particular hotel was the only one in that area.

I guess the details in the case are a little sketchy, but trying to take the re-enactment as what actually happened.

The re-enactment showed that there were around 4-5 motels all on the same street. Am guessing all of these were closed. She didn't zero in on that particular motel, it said she had tried many and probably just reached the last one and was fed up trying. The front office door was locked, and then there was a gap of a few minutes where no-one knows if she walked around or what happened (it wasn't shown). The next clip shown was the policeman driving past who spotted her following a white male.

Considering she had tried so many motels already and failed, it was possible that the white male had suggested he had a room available, or was going to check if he had a room available for her or something along those lines so she followed him and was never seen again.

Considering she had tried so many motels already and failed, it was possible that the white male had suggested he had a room available, or was going to check if he had a room available for her or something along those lines so she followed him and was never seen again.

Thats a good point. I've never thought of the idea that maybe her abductor/killer told her he was the manager and wanted her to follow him to a specific room to see if it was available.

Thats a good point. I've never thought of the idea that maybe her abductor/killer told her he was the manager and wanted her to follow him to a specific room to see if it was available.

It's difficult to know, since a lot of what is being relied upon here is the video re-enactment...

I do remember though it showed a map of the motels on that particular street, and there was another motel directly behind the one that she had just tried that was locked up for the night.

It was to the motel behind (in the video clip) that the victim was following the white male, if you read the OP's comment it stated that...
Witnesses ... described an unidentified Caucasian male who had been seen earlier that day urinating in public.

It could be possible that the guy was an out-of-towner who had simply blown in for the day, stayed in the background motel for the night and pretended to the victim that he was the manager to lure her to his room. (Or he may simply have wandered onto that strip though why would he as the whole street simply appeared to be motels?)

The thing about Pamela is that while it is plausible that she was aducted by that man last seen with her, the truth is that he may not be responsible for her disapearance. An unlikely scenario but plausible

The thing about Pamela is that while it is plausible that she was aducted by that man last seen with her, the truth is that he may not be responsible for her disapearance. An unlikely scenario but plausible

Very true though there was a very limited timeframe for anything to happen outside the scope of said street.

PJR was last seen at 0530 by the patrol car walking with the white male.

(I think if I remember) the motel owner found the abandoned car at 0800 and the police arrived to check the scene by 0830.

With PJR being on foot it only gives a window of 2 hrs 30 mins for anything to happen between last sighting and motel manager arriving and spotting the vehicle. How far can the average person walk in such a time? A handful of miles at most probably. Although if she was walking and kept on going or hitchhiked outta there it could also be possibility.

It may not have been the white male who was responsible, but maybe he was an accomplice. I say this because (again relying on the Video Re-enactment), PJR's car was the only one in front of that motel. Around the other motels on the street the Video only shows a handful of cars (around 5/6 at the very most). Things must have been quite quiet on the business front at least with out-of-towners coming in with their cars, even though the video stated that some of the motels PJR tried were full-up. (This may just be a mistake on the part of UM when they remade the video though by not including enough cars in the car parks so may not be a reliable insight).

If you take it that even half of the motels (2-3 motels) on that street were full up with guests, again there is only a limited distance each patron can go on foot if we are relying on the limited number of cars.

Another alternative is that she may have been held captive in one of the motel rooms until someone else came along in a car (that wasn't already there) to take her away. Going by the fact that none of the motels had telephones and the area seemed completely in the stone ages anyway, theres a good chance that the community itself was also in the stone ages regarding up to date police techniques and the abductor could have been one of those asked if he'd heard anything but the police simply didn't notice anything odd about him so let him go about his business.

There must be some clear evidence suggesting foul play however as I do distinctly remember the police flyer at the top stated "Kidnapped" which I thought was odd (rather than simply stating "Missing").

There must be some clear evidence suggesting foul play however as I do distinctly remember the police flyer at the top stated "Kidnapped" which I thought was odd (rather than simply stating "Missing").

I agree and thought the same thing after watching it. My question is, although I know it was 1992 and we've come along way since then in terms of technology, but were there any type of security cameras anywhere on the property? Anything that could have caught her would be abductor and what possibly happened? If not, then were there any places next to this motel that had security cameras that could have possibly seen anything?

I agree and thought the same thing after watching it. My question is, although I know it was 1992 and we've come along way since then in terms of technology, but were there any type of security cameras anywhere on the property? Anything that could have caught her would be abductor and what possibly happened? If not, then were there any places next to this motel that had security cameras that could have possibly seen anything?

There were apparently no phones so I doubt there would be any security cameras. Everything points to the cop being the last person to see her alive. She seemed like a good mother so she left her kids for seemingly a minute to get a room from someone she thought was a manager. It all makes sense. The kids never wake up until morning and she is dead and gone which is why she never returns.

Now this is a shot in the dark but was there any other reason for her to disappear? I assume her body hasn't been found but was it ruled out that she had an unhappy marriage/family life and ran away with a guy that she met pre-arranged?

Now this is a shot in the dark but was there any other reason for her to disappear? I assume her body hasn't been found but was it ruled out that she had an unhappy marriage/family life and ran away with a guy that she met pre-arranged?

I had also suggested "foul play" from this aspect, but others on here have insisted there's no way this could happen.

My angle was maybe the husband arranged something? I found it a little suspicious that he wouldn't go with them, or that they couldn't hold out til he could get some time off work to be with them so the entire family was together.

As for phones, UM mentioned that there were "no phones in the area" so we can assume they mean the immediate street which they show the map of. Hence the same street probably has no cameras as was said.

I also read an article that said police searched a wooded property in Florida in April 2000 hoping to find her remains. Ironically the spot they searched was just 30 yards from where Donna Callahan's remains were found in 1996. As most of you probably remember, Donna Callahan was also profiled on Unsolved Mysteries. A man has been arrested and convicted for her murder and police have interviewed the same man concerning Pamela June Ray's disappearance.

I'm quoting another thread here but its about the same person. Where was this "man" from that was arrested?

Thinking about the case again today, can't miss the fact that the beach also ran along behind the motels.

Whats to say the killer or abductor didnt dump her in the ocean or bury her in a shallow grave on the beach?

It doesn't sound like the police in this area were too clued up in 1992 with other things, they may not have been so thorough in their investigations.

P.S. Is it just me or was that town like the Stone Ages for 1992? Even then I was thinking WTF about the hotels not having phones. Sadly I bet if they did, this could've turned out way differently/

When I worked for Super 8 in college we had to have a night clerk available every night of the week. I think most motels work this way. We kept the door to our motel locked so nobody could get in, but we had a window we could give keys out through if someone showed up in the middle of the night needing a room. Unless none of the motels in the area had night clerks, I find it so sad and strange that nobody heard anything. The motels featured in the photograph of the crime scene area were obviously not Hiltons, but they didn't look like they were in the middle of Skid Row either.

I find it so sad and strange that nobody heard anything. The motels featured in the photograph of the crime scene area were obviously not Hiltons, but they didn't look like they were in the middle of Skid Row either.

The video said that 5 minutes after the policeman spotted her that they heard screams (approx 0530 hours). With no phones however they were probably afraid to go outside and also had no way of reporting them.

And I thought the area didn't look too far from being Skid Row, there wasn't much to it! Like I said, a right seedy looking area that I'd love to visit for the novelty, but wouldn't fancy hanging around for too long just in case :crazy:

I had also suggested "foul play" from this aspect, but others on here have insisted there's no way this could happen.

My angle was maybe the husband arranged something? I found it a little suspicious that he wouldn't go with them, or that they couldn't hold out til he could get some time off work to be with them so the entire family was together.



I never suspected the husband. We don't know what he did for a living but it is not uncommon for a mother to take her two kids on holidays with her while their dad has to work. It happens. My mother took us places without my dad for the same reason, weekend trips etc. It isn't unlike the case where the mother took her two daughters to Florida and Disneyworld only to disappear from that guy driving the boat. The husband probably couldn't get time off work then either. It happens.

I never suspected the husband. It isn't unlike the case where the mother took her two daughters to Florida and Disneyworld only to disappear from that guy driving the boat. The husband probably couldn't get time off work then either. It happens.

Can you elaborate on the Disneyland case? Was it shown on UM?


And after rewatching the segment, when I first seen the photograph of the husband I was convinced he could've been involved, but after watching and listening him talk am also convinced of his innocence.

Can you elaborate on the Disneyland case? Was it shown on UM?


And after rewatching the segment, when I first seen the photograph of the husband I was convinced he could've been involved, but after watching and listening him talk am also convinced of his innocence.

Yeah the DisneyWorld case is under the title "Mother Daughter Tragedy" on Youtube.


As for Pamela's husband this is my thought. If he planned and orchestrated this how would he know where she would stay for the night? Why do it in such an open area with potential witnesses like a hotel?

The thing that baffles me is why would a mother leave Atlanta at 10:00pm with her two children so as to arrive at her vacation destination at such an odd time - and without a hotel reservation? Why not wait until the next morning? By the time you wake up after getting into bed in the hotel at 4:30am, you won't be waking up until 11:00am at the earliest anyway - which is what time you would be getting into town if you got to bed early, got a good night's sleep, then took off early in the morning. Makes no sense. In fact, more than that, it is strange and suspicious.

There is something fishy here that UM is not telling us. I think there is more to it than a good mother from a good and normal family with a husband that loves her to bits decides on a whim to take a weekend vacation minus the hubby. Why would the Charley Project mention the $400,000 worth of waylaid money? Do they mean to say it provides a possible motive for murder? I don't think so, because it specifically states they do not believe there is a connection. Or does it mean this family was a bit shady and may have been involved in shady things and with shady people? The more shadier your acquaintances are, and the more shadier the things you are involved in are, the more likely things like this can happen.

Can you elaborate on the Disneyland case? Was it shown on UM?


And after rewatching the segment, when I first seen the photograph of the husband I was convinced he could've been involved, but after watching and listening him talk am also convinced of his innocence.

This is the case of Mary Rodgers and her two daughters. Oba Chandler killed them and was convicted and sentenced to death.

The thing that baffles me is why would a mother leave Atlanta at 10:00pm with her two children so as to arrive at her vacation destination at such an odd time - and without a hotel reservation? Why not wait until the next morning? By the time you wake up after getting into bed in the hotel at 4:30am, you won't be waking up until 11:00am at the earliest anyway - which is what time you would be getting into town if you got to bed early, got a good night's sleep, then took off early in the morning. Makes no sense. In fact, more than that, it is strange and suspicious.


I agree. I know myself or my family would just wait until the next morning before leaving just for safety reasons alone. It doesn't make sense to drive through the night to a destination you're not familiar with and a hotel you don't have reservations for. Didn't she know that crazy people look for women traveling alone to attack? I wonder if maybe her and her husband got into a fight and she took the kids out on a vacation without him. UM did mention that Pamela's family had accidentally been given a large amount of money due to a banking error and were then forced to give it back after they had spent most of it. Maybe there was a connection.

I agree. I know myself or my family would just wait til the next morning before leaving just for safety reasons alone. It doesn't make sense to drive through the night to a destination your not familiar with and a hotel you don't have reservations for.

Was thinking about this earlier. Maybe they just wanted to get an early start the next day to make the most of their holiday?

Also you have to think how long ago was this back in the 90's maybe? people werent that paranoid if it was that long ago. Even in this day and age, a lot of people who arent into true crime are just not that aware of their surroundings. People think that bad stuff happens to others and not them.

Also you have to think how long ago was this back in the 90's maybe? people werent that paranoid if it was that long ago. Even in this day and age, a lot of people who arent into true crime are just not that aware of their surroundings. People think that bad stuff happens to others and not them.

Would definitely agree there. It was in 1992.

One other thing did anyone notice, it may only have been on UMs segment (and not true to life) but did anyone else think PJR was dressed almost like a prostitute?

Maybe it was just the neon lights from the motels that gave that impression but I did think her clothing was a little inviting for 0530 hours.

Yeah it was 1992. But for sure people weren't invincible from having a crime committed against them. It existed. If this is 1952, then we're talking about a much different era where everyone trusted each other. And since it was 1992 it wasn't uncommon to not have a hotel reservation. There were no cell phones then, you couldn't look stuff up on the internet. The idea of winging it and finding a hotel by luck actually existed back then. I know my folks did it with us. The 5:30am thing was strange that's for sure. But combined with what the cop saw and the idea that her kids were left alone it makes perfect sense that she ran into a random guy. If it had to do with the money thing, then it makes more sense, but the first option is do-able

The 5:30am thing was strange that's for sure. But combined with what the cop saw and the idea that her kids were left alone it makes perfect sense that she ran into a random guy. If it had to do with the money thing, then it makes more sense, but the first option is do-able

Agreed. Most likely she was in the wrong place at the wrong time and met foul play with some crazy killer.

people are never invincible, but our world has changed so much in the past almost 20 years!! People are much more aware of stranger danger than there were back then. In the past 20 years we have had more and more high profile murder cases in the media and a myriad of shows about crime, abductions, child killers etc. Back in the 90's all we really had was unsolved mysteries!!!!

I was a teen in the 90's and the stupid stuff I did would have gotten me killed for sure. I'm surprised I' m alive. People just didnt really think the same way we do now.

Back in the 90's all we really had was unsolved mysteries!

...and was it not enough, both back then and even now it scares the f-jeez outta me!

The Pamela June Ray case was never solved, i know this because im her daughter. She left us (me and shayne) in the car because we were asleep.. and because we had made arrangements with the manager of the hotel prior to making the trip down to pcb. He was supposed to leave a key to the room in the mail box for my mother to get when we got there. also my aunt was supposed to come with us for the trip because my dad couldnt get off of work. but she backed out at the last moment.
The only thing i remember about the day we were found by the police was waking up because it was raining and i started crying because shayne was asleep and we were alone. not to long after i woke shayne up, a police officer took us to the police station and called our family, my dad and my aunt rhonda flew down from georgia to get us.
As for the leeds that came up in 2000... Sandra Marie Anderson who did search and rescue with her Cadaver Dog Eagle (if you google her you will see just how reliable she was ) were searching an area near pcb where they found several female remains. All the remains had the same profile.. White female with dark hair. The area they were searching was the home of a woman. However her son had murdered the victims and burried them on her property. This man is in jail for several life sentences because of this. But my mothers remains were not found among them, and the man who pled guilty to these crimes would not say if he knew what happened to my mom or not.
Aside from the numerous false reports of people seeing her, there has never been any real leads or evidence to what happened.

The Pamela June Ray case was never solved, i know this because im her daughter. She left us (me and shayne) in the car because we were asleep.. and because we had made arrangements with the manager of the hotel prior to making the trip down to pcb. He was supposed to leave a key to the room in the mail box for my mother to get when we got there. also my aunt was supposed to come with us for the trip because my dad couldnt get off of work. but she backed out at the last moment.
The only thing i remember about the day we were found by the police was waking up because it was raining and i started crying because shayne was asleep and we were alone. not to long after i woke shayne up, a police officer took us to the police station and called our family, my dad and my aunt rhonda flew down from georgia to get us.
As for the leeds that came up in 2000... Sandra Marie Anderson who did search and rescue with her Cadaver Dog Eagle (if you google her you will see just how reliable she was ) were searching an area near pcb where they found several female remains. All the remains had the same profile.. White female with dark hair. The area they were searching was the home of a woman. However her son had murdered the victims and burried them on her property. This man is in jail for several life sentences because of this. But my mothers remains were not found among them, and the man who pled guilty to these crimes would not say if he knew what happened to my mom or not.
Aside from the numerous false reports of people seeing her, there has never been any real leads or evidence to what happened.

Welcome to the board, and thank you so much for posting!!!

I sincerely am sorry for the tragedy that you and your family have gone through, and I hope that one day there will be answers. Even though this was a short segment on the show, it obviously had a lasting impact on many of us, and I appreciate you giving us some details.

Do you or your family have any theories about what happened? From what you wrote, it sounds like your mom met with some sort of psychopath or something?

Regardless, thanks again, and I hope you and your family are doing well.

Welcome to the board, and thank you so much for posting!!!

I sincerely am sorry for the tragedy that you and your family have gone through, and I hope that one day there will be answers. Even though this was a short segment on the show, it obviously had a lasting impact on many of us, and I appreciate you giving us some details.

Do you or your family have any theories about what happened? From what you wrote, it sounds like your mom met with some sort of psychopath or something?

Regardless, thanks again, and I hope you and your family are doing well.

Some members of my family do believe that she was killed by the man who is in prison for the numerous murders he commited, where the police found all of those body's. But for me.. I was five years old at the time that she went missing.. so my memory of her is completely gone. the only thing that i remember about her is the perfume she wore. If you asked me to think of her the picture i'd see in my head would be the one on the posters, or what she looked like in another photograph. She could literally walk past me on the street and i probably wouldnt recognize her.
The story about what happened seems as real to me as it does to any of you. Its just amazing that any of yall remember the story from that long ago. Whenever i see storys like hers on the news, like the Natalee Holloway case, you watch it and see what her family is going through and you think my god how terrible, and you think that could never happen to me. But it can, at any moment your life can be changed forever.

The Pamela June Ray case was never solved, i know this because im her daughter. She left us (me and shayne) in the car because we were asleep.. and because we had made arrangements with the manager of the hotel prior to making the trip down to pcb. He was supposed to leave a key to the room in the mail box for my mother to get when we got there. also my aunt was supposed to come with us for the trip because my dad couldnt get off of work. but she backed out at the last moment.
The only thing i remember about the day we were found by the police was waking up because it was raining and i started crying because shayne was asleep and we were alone. not to long after i woke shayne up, a police officer took us to the police station and called our family, my dad and my aunt rhonda flew down from georgia to get us.
As for the leeds that came up in 2000... Sandra Marie Anderson who did search and rescue with her Cadaver Dog Eagle (if you google her you will see just how reliable she was ) were searching an area near pcb where they found several female remains. All the remains had the same profile.. White female with dark hair. The area they were searching was the home of a woman. However her son had murdered the victims and burried them on her property. This man is in jail for several life sentences because of this. But my mothers remains were not found among them, and the man who pled guilty to these crimes would not say if he knew what happened to my mom or not.
Aside from the numerous false reports of people seeing her, there has never been any real leads or evidence to what happened.

I too would like to welcome you to the board and express my deepest condolences. I used to watch Unsolved Mysteries all the time when i was a kid with my parents and grandma. Your mom's case has always stood out to me as far as the older cases go. I really hope that one day you get the answers you and your family are looking for.

What is the name of the person in jail that you believe killed her?

I too would like to welcome you to the board and express my deepest condolences. I used to watch Unsolved Mysteries all the time when i was a kid with my parents and grandma. Your mom's case has always stood out to me as far as the older cases go. I really hope that one day you get the answers you and your family are looking for.

What is the name of the person in jail that you believe killed her?


Since he was never convicted for her crime, and there was no actual evidence that points to him i dont feel comfortable revealing his name. Although he has been convicted for several other heinous crimes i think it would paint my family name in a bad light to point the finger of blame, when there isnt any evidence to support it.

Although he has been convicted for several other heinous crimes i think it would paint my family name in a bad light to point the finger of blame, when there isnt any evidence to support it.

Again condolences here regarding what happened. Its always amazing when those behind the stories actually come forward to give their input.

As you can see from this board there are numerous armchair detectives trying to work out cases and this one is no exception as although it was a short segment, it really sticks in your mind even after nearly 20 years.

It is good to know though that this guy if he is the correct one is behind bars. What sort of/what length of sentence is he currently serving? Hope it's a long one anyway.


Just a curious question noted from something above here...

We had made arrangements with the manager of the hotel prior to making the trip down to pcb. He was supposed to leave a key to the room in the mail box for my mother to get when we got there. also my aunt was supposed to come with us for the trip because my dad couldnt get off of work. but she backed out at the last moment.

The segment mentioned that the motels in that area had no telephones. Were the arrangements made from/to the hotel managers home?

Just a curious question noted from something above here...

The segment mentioned that the motels in that area had no telephones. Were the arrangements made from/to the hotel managers home?

I'm pretty sure they meant no PAYPHONES, meaning publicly accessible telephones. The office of each of the hotels would of course have telephone service.

Again condolences here regarding what happened. Its always amazing when those behind the stories actually come forward to give their input.

As you can see from this board there are numerous armchair detectives trying to work out cases and this one is no exception as although it was a short segment, it really sticks in your mind even after nearly 20 years.

It is good to know though that this guy if he is the correct one is behind bars. What sort of/what length of sentence is he currently serving? Hope it's a long one anyway.


Just a curious question noted from something above here...



The segment mentioned that the motels in that area had no telephones. Were the arrangements made from/to the hotel managers home?


from what my aunt told me at the time ... that she had spoke with the manager personally and he knew that she and my mother would be there at the time we arived. So he was supposed to leave a key in the mailbox because the office would be closed. im gunna go out on a limb and say that he forgot because they were probably really busy, being that time of year and all... everyone trying to get in one last beach trip before school started back... like we were. but i really dont know... all i can go on is what ive been told. Even though they said that there were no phones im pretty sure that there was a phone in the office of the hotel. i mean how else were the out of towners going to make reservations? i think they just ment no phones in the rooms for the guest to use.

Even though they said that there were no phones im pretty sure that there was a phone in the office of the hotel. i mean how else were the out of towners going to make reservations? i think they just ment no phones in the rooms for the guest to use.

Thanks for the info Brandi.

I just wish UM would have made it a little clearer.

It could have been that it was such a popular area that they didn't need phones at all, they may just have had people calling by all the time which meant they were always busy - I do remember hotels and motels especially like that in the 70/80s but wouldn't have expected such in 92, except if the area was still totally stuck in a timewarp.

On the other hand, the explanation of a lack of "payphones" does make sense though, as Pamela had never made it into to a room to access an internal phone line anyway.

Another note and throwing a completely different light on the same thing... The hotel Pamela had phoned ahead to and spoken to the manager may not actually have been on that street at all, it may have been on an adjacent street or another a short distance away.

The reason I suggest this is that the UM segment said she had tried "a number" of hotels on that street (that it showed her on), but all were locked up for the night.

I agree. I know myself or my family would just wait til the next morning before leaving just for safety reasons alone. It doesn't make sense to drive through the night to a destination your not familiar with and a hotel you don't have reservations for. Didn't she know that crazy people look for women traveling alone to attack? I wonder if maybe her and her husband got into a fight and she took the kids out on a vacation without him. UM did mention that Pamela's family had accidentally been given a large amount of money due to a banking error and were then forced to give it back after they had spent most of it. Maybe there was a connection.

Well, I just came upon this thread while searching for information on the old Wilhite Motel in Panama City. One aspect of this motel which may have a relationship is that this was an early version of a sort of "extended stay" motel, where there were weekly rates and a kitchen in the rooms. I know this because this was the sort of motels my grandfather always looked for when vacationing, and we stayed at the Wilhite several times when I was a child... which is what brought me here!

Perhaps PJR was planning to stay in PCB for a bit longer than the usual vacation, such as a week or more, which brought here there?

Also, I haven't seen this mentioned, but the family had at one time a condo in the Panama City area, according to one of the websites on the case, which I don't think I've seen mentioned here:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/ray_pamela.html

"The family reportedly owned a condominium at the Gulf Highlands Beach Resort in Panama City under Ray's name..."

So, it seems very likely that this wasn't a "...destination your not familiar with...", maybe she had people she knew there, possibly not as nice as she thought they were? Also, it bears mentioning that it wouldn't be that odd for trips back and forth from Villa Rica, Georgia to Panama City Beach, Florida to be a common trip for her and her family, I live in the same part of Georgia, and here PCB is considered close enough to jaunt down to sometimes on a whim, espescially if there are friends living down there, as well.

Interesting and sad story, either way, though.

I'd like to add a few comments on this case. It just happens that we were at Panama City Beach when Pamela Ray disappeared. This case has always stuck with me. It rained the whole week we were there- a monsoon drenching rain. It was raining like that when she disappeared. I think I remember hearing or reading that this was one of the reasons there was so little evidence for investigators to find, and possibly why her cries for help might not have been heard. I am sure it's why she left the sleeping children in the locked car. i am very safety conscious, but remembering how that office was right there in the parking area, I would have done the same thing.

The Wilhite was an older mom & pop style motel that was a leftover from the 50s and 60s. I think I remember the office as being out in the parking lot, separate from the rest of the hotel. It was common to make arrangements to pick up the key upon arrival at one of these places, we have done it too. It wasn't in a run down area, but there were still quite a few older motels along that stretch of the beach. I believe it was in the area that used to be known as Long beach. It was on Front Beach Road and the motel was on the beach.

I was glad to read that the family has at least had some type of closure as they think her killer might already be in prison. I hope one day they will know for sure.

I'd like to add a few comments on this case. It just happens that we were at Panama City Beach when Pamela Ray disappeared. This case has always stuck with me. It rained the whole week we were there- a monsoon drenching rain. It was raining like that when she disappeared. I think I remember hearing or reading that this was one of the reasons there was so little evidence for investigators to find, and possibly why her cries for help might not have been heard. I am sure it's why she left the sleeping children in the locked car. i am very safety conscious, but remembering how that office was right there in the parking area, I would have done the same thing.

That's a good point. The rain alone would cause me to leave my kids in the car if all I was doing was going inside to check in.

Also, Pamela's daughter, Brandy, has commented on this thread and I was just reading over some comments and I noticed she said that the person they believe may have been responsible has been convicted of several other heinous crimes but did not want to reveal his name, which is understandable. It makes me wonder if its possibly Oba Chandler that she was referring to. You don't get much more heinous than what that bastard did and this would fit his MO.

Oba lived in the Tampa bay area. PCB is a good 6-7 hours northwest of there. It would be interesting to know if he was in the area at the time she disappeared. I read a book about him, but it's been awhile. Were his victims only taken from the area near his home?

Oba lived in the Tampa bay area. PCB is a good 6-7 hours northwest of there. It would be interesting to know if he was in the area at the time she disappeared. I read a book about him, but it's been awhile. Were his victims only taken from the area near his home?

No, he has had victims as far away as Canada. I wouldn't rule out Oba Chandler in any unsolved homicide during the 70's, 80's and early 90's.

I just saw the Pamela Ray case for the first time and it is one of the most unfortunate segments I've seen because she was abducted/killed while her children were within earshot. And to top it all off a police officer drives by and in all likelihood witnesses her last moments alive...if only he would have driven by just five minutes after she may still be alive. Now I do have some puzzling questions about this case. I'm reading all over different websites that witnesses say they saw this white man following Pamela through the parking lot but in the UM segment, the Panama City sergeant says that the officer who drove by the hotel saw Pamela following the man in the parking lot. So which one was it? I personally think that she did drive up expecting to find a key left for her in a mail slot and she couldn't find one so she tried knocking on the door (which attracted this white man's attention who had to be lurking nearby) and he probably posed as a hotel employee or even less likely someone who was willing to share a room which is why she was seen following him. I don't think this guy was just a passerby, I think he was staying at the hotel. 5:30 in the morning is not the best time to be out looking for potential victims especially in a vacation spot area. So I think he was staying at the hotel and I think he held her in his room, killed her, then disposed of her body. But if that was the case would her abducter be brazen enough to keep her in a room in a hotel where her screams were heard just hours before? Wouldn't he want to get the hell out of dodge? And if he wasn't staying at the hotel or a nearby hotel, how did he manage to abduct her without much of a fight? He obviously didn't have a gun or else Pamela wouldn't have been screaming for help like she was. This makes me think he grabbed her and a struggle ensued as he was trying to abduct her...but if there was a struggle in the parking lot, one of the guests should have witnessed something (man getting into a vehicle, a vehicle speeding away, the man and Pamela fighting) but no one says they saw anything, they just heard her screams. We have all of these witnesses say they saw her sitting in her car at 5 a.m., and how they observed her going from hotel to hotel, then why didn't anyone see any signs of a struggle in the parking lot? And what were these witnesses doing out and about at 5 in the morning on a weekend at the beach? (Not saying that just because someone is up early in the morning they must be up to no good, but I just find it a bit odd.) Obviously the first thing someone will do when they hear someone screaming for help is get up and look out the window, why wasn't there anything seen? I guess the most fortunate thing about the whole case was that the kids weren't awoken by her screams for help.

And I wouldn't rule Oba Chandler out on anything either...it fits his MO that he targets women on vacation with their children with no husband present.

I had never thought of Oba Chandler being the abductor, but if it was him, and he had a target "type" of victim picked out, that would explain his presense in the parking lot at that time. He could've been in PCB trolling for victims.
I think it was a week day, not the weekend.

The Wilhite, as many other older hotels at that time, as stated previously,did weekly as well as one day rentals. Many families in the region went to them on their vacations, and had for years. We did, at a different motel. I've been there as recently as 10 years ago in a couple of these older motels(they are all gone now and replaced by new hotels and condos)and they also rented by the week to construction workers that were down there working. Oba could have blended right in with that crowd.

Regardless of whether is was Oba or someone else, he could have been in the office and heard the desk clerk talking to Pamela so he was laying in wait expecting her when she got there. He could have pretended to work at the hotel till he got her near his truck and and then grabbed her and put her in and drove away. This was when she screamed.

It was raining heavily that morning. I still remember it, stuck in a condo with 4 unhappy kids, the news was on and the story was all over it, and cop cars everywhere.

But Oba had the profile of sweet talking and befriending his victims or potential victims..and his seeming manner of murder was by taking them out on a boat ride. He seems to be more of the "charmer-killer"--a little more methodical, planning the murder out for a while. Patiently waiting.
Look at the Rogers murder--He was in touch with them for at least a few days, planning the act. He even led them to their hotel.

Similar sort of thing with the woman he raped--Same sort of methodical, superficial facade, cunning and planning going into it.

Ray's killer sounds more like a random psychopath--a little less sophisticated than Oba was, just a random lurking nut-- someone who would grab a woman off the streets and kill her. That doesn't seem to fit Oba's profile.

The only thing that fits with Oba is the fact that was a woman vacationing alone with kids. But there's no evidence Oba was there that night.

Regardless of whether is was Oba or someone else, he could have been in the office and heard the desk clerk talking to Pamela so he was laying in wait expecting her when she got there. He could have pretended to work at the hotel till he got her near his truck and and then grabbed her and put her in and drove away. This was when she screamed.

That is a very good point. Perhaps the killer was just someone that happened to be there and heard the conversation. I'd love to have Pamela's daughter come back to the board and share more on this case but I completely understand her and her family wanting privacy.

I don't remember seeing/reading anything about a conversation between Pamela and a desk clerk. I thought she showed up after hours expecting to have a key waiting for her in a mail slot and when there wasn't one she began knocking on the door. I think the knocking on the door is what roused this guy to come out and pose as a motel employee which is why she was seen following the man.

I don't remember seeing/reading anything about a conversation between Pamela and a desk clerk. I thought she showed up after hours expecting to have a key waiting for her in a mail slot and when there wasn't one she began knocking on the door. I think the knocking on the door is what roused this guy to come out and pose as a motel employee which is why she was seen following the man.

Your right, there was no face to face conversation. What we were alluding to is when Pamela called the motel while she was on her way and spoke to the manager. The killer may have been with the manager (possibly a guest checking in or out or getting a new motel room key) when the conversation happened and heard enough details that he knew who to look for and when to look for her.

Your right, there was no face to face conversation. What we were alluding to is when Pamela called the motel while she was on her way and spoke to the manager. The killer may have been with the manager (possibly a guest checking in or out or getting a new motel room key) when the conversation happened and heard enough details that he knew who to look for and when to look for her.

Gotcha. While this is very likely that the conversation could have been overheard in the motel lobby, I don't think it's likely that Pamela would have been able to pinpoint her exact time of her arrival at the motel. So how would this guy know when to attack? What if she stopped for a quick nap or bathroom breaks and didn't arrive until seven or eight in the morning? If he was deadset on abducting this woman based off of one sole conversation that he only heard one side of (the desk clerk), he had balls the size of church bells. First he wouldn't know if she would be with her husband or adult male that could have posed a potential threat? And what if her kids were awake and with her when she was outside trying to obtain the keys? Then we have the possibility that she stops off at another motel along her route and calls it a night, why would this guy wait up all hours of the night just over one phone call? He had to have seen her trying to open up the doors and/or knocking on them and I think that is how he was drawn to her. This guy is a sick mf'er, so wouldn't he be more likely to target another victim at another motel instead of lounging around outside all hours of the night just waiting for this alleged caller to arrive?

One other thing has been kind of bugging me about this case. Witnesses say that Pamela arrived and began pulling into the various motels in the area a little before five in the morning. If she already had a key waiting for her at another motel, what would be her reason to do this? Unless she went there first and saw that there was no key and that the place was closed, then checked the other motels in the area. But if that's the case why drive back knowning that the motel lobby was deserted and closed and they didn't leave a key for her?

One other thing has been kind of bugging me about this case. Witnesses say that Pamela arrived and began pulling into the various motels in the area a little before five in the morning. If she already had a key waiting for her at another motel, what would be her reason to do this? Unless she went there first and saw that there was no key and that the place was closed, then checked the other motels in the area. But if that's the case why drive back knowning that the motel lobby was deserted and closed and they didn't leave a key for her?

The UM segment just mentioned she had arranged a vacation in Panama city but did not mentioned she had pre-booked anything. It went on to say that after arriving at around 4:30am, she tried several motels in the area with no luck, then showed her knocking on 1 particular motel. Several witnesses observed her "sitting in her car" at 5am.

Another issue, it mentions guests were "jolted awake" 5 mins after the patrol car went by by "piercing screams". Now, if you were "jolted awake", what would you do, roll over and go back to sleep? I think I would be scared out of my wits and awake most of the night.

The UM segment just mentioned she had arranged a vacation in Panama city but did not mentioned she had pre-booked anything. It went on to say that after arriving at around 4:30am, she tried several motels in the area with no luck, then showed her knocking on 1 particular motel. Several witnesses observed her "sitting in her car" at 5am.

Another issue, it mentions guests were "jolted awake" 5 mins after the patrol car went by by "piercing screams". Now, if you were "jolted awake", what would you do, roll over and go back to sleep? I think I would be scared out of my wits and awake most of the night.

That's what's always bugged me about this. I don't know Ms. Ray, but I can't believe that she would have driven several hundred miles on a "vacation" w/ two kids and didn't have a hotel room lined up in advance. None of the major chains had rooms?

Also, after driving at night for several hundred miles and finding no rooms available,wouldn't most people have stopped a restaurant and fed the kids, or at least got yourself some coffee?

The motel, according to the episode, didn't have phones in the rooms. What kind of motel that you would let your kids stay in wouldn't have a phone in the room? And if there were no phones in the rooms and guests heard "piercing screams" (their words) why didn't anybody go outside to check things out or at least provide assistance?

IMHO, (and no, I'm not trying to bash the victim) Ms. Ray's behavior sounds to me like she was high on drugs or was attempting score when she met w/ the wrong person.

Think about: A patrol car passed and her and the person she was "chatting with" AT FIVE AM move around the side of the building out of sight?

She drives several hundreds miles at night and decides to stop at a fleabag motel w/ her kids after stopping at several other places first?

She was chatting w/ complete stranger at 5am in front of a motel that she's unfamiliar?

My thoughts on this was she was trying to score drugs and she ran into the wrong person or people and met w/ tragedy.
I think that the police should have emphasized this, not to bash her as a victim, but maybe to jog the memories (or work on the guilt) of people who may know more than they are telling or have told.

At this late date, I think that the only thing that will "solve" this case is going to be a confession by her killer or by somebody that helped the killer out.

IMHO, (and no, I'm not trying to bash the victim) Ms. Ray's behavior sounds to me like she was high on drugs or was attempting score when she met w/ the wrong person.

I actually thought EXACTLY the same thing (attempting to score), though thought it would not be nice to openly state. It would be the right time of night with not too many around to observe anything, that's for sure.


It could actually have been something like that and because she had no money on her (she left her purse in the car remember), the killer decided he would like a piece of her instead as payment and she refused - hence the screams and hence how the whole thing turned out in the end.


I think I mentioned it before... it may just have been the way the segment was portrayed on UM but I thought the area looked a little seedy/run-down and perfect for such kinds of low-life to be hanging around (the killer that is, not PJR), so maybe it was intentional that PJR stopped at this particular area because she expected there to be such low-lifes around?

I actually thought EXACTLY the same thing (attempting to score), though thought it would not be nice to openly state. It would be the right time of night with not too many around to observe anything, that's for sure.


It could actually have been something like that and because she had no money on her (she left her purse in the car remember), the killer decided he would like a piece of her instead as payment and she refused - hence the screams and hence how the whole thing turned out in the end.


I think I mentioned it before... it may just have been the way the segment was portrayed on UM but I thought the area looked a little seedy/run-down and perfect for such kinds of low-life to be hanging around (the killer that is, not PJR), so maybe it was intentional that PJR stopped at this particular area because she expected there to be such low-lifes around?

Again, I wasn't trying denigrate the victim. I just think that when you are looking for a missing person (or a killer) that the majority of pertinent information available needs to be released, especially in cold cases.
Would that result in some cranks?
Sure.
But the chances of receiving legitimate information are high enough to make it worthwhile,IMHO.

Pamela June Ray's behavior prior to her disappearance was very odd. It's understandable if it was the result of her being under the influence. And if they person (people) involved w/ her disappearance were trafficking drugs in the area, then the search for them might have gone faster (and even resulted in an arrest) had this type of information been released to the public.

I don't think Pamela was attempting to score any drugs. She would have taken her purse for one thing, and who goes looking for drugs at 5 am in the morning at a vacation spot motel? Let alone the fact that she had her kids with her! I'm sure LE looked into that possibility, and it almost certainly would have been mentioned on the UM segment if she had a previous drug habbit. I just don't buy it. And yes the UM segment never mentioned that keys were supposed to be left for her, but her alleged daughter made a post on here saying that her aunt had made arrangements for keys to be left in a mail slot when she arrived. If this is true, it would account for her knocking on the door, sitting in her car, and checking out all the other motels in the area. I still think the man who did this posed as a motel employee, but I find it odd that she wasn't alerted when the man didn't go into the motel office but instead walked in the direction of the pool. Maybe she was a little cautious of this man which is why she locked her purse and her children in the car.

I still don't understand how none of the motel guests saw ANYTHING at all. When you hear screams you usually look to see where they are coming, why didn't anyone see a struggle in the parking lot, car speeding away, etc.?

I just watched the UM segment . First, I don't think Pam was dressed like a hooker. She was dressed in the style of clothing worn by many women her age back then. A tank top and bermuda shorts at the beach-nothing wrong with that.

I think there might be some misconception about her having made arrangements about the hotel key also. But maybe not.

Many years ago when my husband and I got married, he made similar arrangements at Peek's motel further down the strip for our honeymoon. We wouldn't be getting to PCB till after the office closed. So he was supposed to get our room key from a designated spot-I don't remember where. It wasn't where it was supposed to be. So at around midnight, we were driving up and down the strip trying to find a motel that was open. We finally found one.

So I can see a similar scenario with Pamela. Maybe she got to the beach, they didn't leave the key where it was supposed to be and that is why she was going to several motels trying to find one that was open. When she couldn't, she went back to the Wilhite, where she was abducted.

That is my take on what might have happened. I've been away several days and had time to think about it . I felt pretty bad when I read about the way she was dressed and the possible drug buying. I don't think any of that is true. I just think this poor lady was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I don't think Pamela was attempting to score any drugs. She would have taken her purse for one thing, and who goes looking for drugs at 5 am in the morning at a vacation spot motel? Let alone the fact that she had her kids with her! I'm sure LE looked into that possibility, and it almost certainly would have been mentioned on the UM segment if she had a previous drug habbit. I just don't buy it. And yes the UM segment never mentioned that keys were supposed to be left for her, but her alleged daughter made a post on here saying that her aunt had made arrangements for keys to be left in a mail slot when she arrived. If this is true, it would account for her knocking on the door, sitting in her car, and checking out all the other motels in the area. I still think the man who did this posed as a motel employee, but I find it odd that she wasn't alerted when the man didn't go into the motel office but instead walked in the direction of the pool. Maybe she was a little cautious of this man which is why she locked her purse and her children in the car.

I still don't understand how none of the motel guests saw ANYTHING at all. When you hear screams you usually look to see where they are coming, why didn't anyone see a struggle in the parking lot, car speeding away, etc.?

Hmmm....

1) You do know that people very often take their children along to score drugs,don't you? When you are addicted, most social mores go out the window and you'll be surprised at what you'll find yourself doing. And you wouldn't take your purse;you'd take enough money to buy the drugs that you wanted.

Looking for drugs at 5am in the morning is also VERY common and this could also explain why she was going from motel to motel instead of going to an all-night restaurant or truck stop,waiting the few hours until morning and THEN looking for a motel or hotel w/ a vacancy.

I'm not sure why you think that this would have been mentioned in the segment,poster. As much as I like UM, I know that they often left out crucial details to make their narratives more entertaining and more of a "mystery." Had they had information that Ms. Ray used illegal drugs and had presented that in the segment, then her disappearance, while certainly a mystery,would have been more understandable,potentially lessening its "appeal."

2) The key in the mail slot arrangement makes no sense. The only place that information came from is the poster on this forum. None of the newspaper accounts nor the UM segment mention this and it would actually would have made Ms. Ray's motel search unnecessary had it occurred.

3) Why would she think that the man was a hotel employee? The officer witnessed her chatting w/ the man didn't say he was in a uniform. And I'm certain that an officer patrolling in the area would have recognized the man had been an employee or even a regular at the property.

I think that you are under the impression that I'm implying that she somehow "deserved" what happened. That's not the case at all. The only way to solve a mystery is gather all of the facts and analyze them, regardless of whether or not those facts are distasteful or unpleasant.In fact,IMHO, if most families were honest w/ the authorities, most missing person cases and a lot murders would be quickly solved.

Hmmm....

1) You do know that people very often take their children along to score drugs,don't you? When you are addicted, most social mores go out the window and you'll be surprised at what you'll find yourself doing. And you wouldn't take your purse;you'd take enough money to buy the drugs that you wanted.

Looking for drugs at 5am in the morning is also VERY common and this could also explain why she was going from motel to motel instead of going to an all-night restaurant or truck stop,waiting the few hours until morning and THEN looking for a motel or hotel w/ a vacancy.

I'm not sure why you think that this would have been mentioned in the segment,poster. As much as I like UM, I know that they often left out crucial details to make their narratives more entertaining and more of a "mystery." Had they had information that Ms. Ray used illegal drugs and had presented that in the segment, then her disappearance, while certainly a mystery,would have been more understandable,potentially lessening its "appeal."

2) The key in the mail slot arrangement makes no sense. The only place that information came from is the poster on this forum. None of the newspaper accounts nor the UM segment mention this and it would actually would have made Ms. Ray's motel search unnecessary had it occurred.

3) Why would she think that the man was a hotel employee? The officer witnessed her chatting w/ the man didn't say he was in a uniform. And I'm certain that an officer patrolling in the area would have recognized the man had been an employee or even a regular at the property.

I think that you are under the impression that I'm implying that she somehow "deserved" what happened. That's not the case at all. The only way to solve a mystery is gather all of the facts and analyze them, regardless of whether or not those facts are distasteful or unpleasant.In fact,IMHO, if most families were honest w/ the authorities, most missing person cases and a lot murders would be quickly solved.

Well just because UM didn't mention a key being reserved doesn't mean that it never happened does it? You yourself said that UM leaves out details to beef up their storylines. Yes a woman can go score drugs with her kids, it happens ALL the time when someone is addicted. People will do just about anything, I understand this...my point was why drive ALL the way to Florida from Georgia to score drugs in an area you are unfamiliar with??? If she was THAT addicted to drugs like you imply, why didn't she score some in her hometown where she knew that drugs would be sold? There's no guarantee she would have found a candyman at five a.m. in the morning on a strip of motels that people go to for vacation. Looking for drugs in the morning is VERY common, but she left her vehicle and was seen being followed by the man. If she were buying drugs wouldn't she be following this man? And if buying drugs on this motel strip was THAT common, wouldn't this officer have been at least the tiniest bit suspicious seeing two people in a parking lot of one of those motels that early in the morning? That would have been the first thing on that officers mind as he was driving by, and he probably would have pulled in and checked it out if it were true. I didn't know Pamela, I can't tell you if she was on drugs. I can just tell you that I find it unlikely that she would leave with her kids to enjoy one last vacation, drive hundreds of miles in the wee hours of the morning, then arrive at her destination and see that no motels are open and go, "Gee I need a fix...NOW" then lock her kids up in the car while mommy goes out to get high.

(On a side note, according to the Charley project website two officers were among seven witnesses who said they saw Pamela in the parking lot of the motel from when she arrived up until the other officer observed her in the lot with this white man. If she were acting suspicious in any way, or if this was a local spot where people bought drugs, police would have found this EXTREMELY suspicious seeing her sitting in the lot knowing that the motel was closed. And they would have at least questioned her. So we now have three officers who saw her at the parking lot of the motel and none of them noted anything suspicious going on.)

And if this guy was posing as a motel employee the officer who drove by would have no indication of what was going on, he himself stated he just saw two people outside the motel talking. He couldn't hear what was being said between the two. So I think it's quite logical that this guy could have very well posed as motel employee to Pamela and the officer would have been none the wiser.

Well just because UM didn't mention a key being reserved doesn't mean that it never happened does it? You yourself said that UM leaves out details to beef up their storylines. Yes a woman can go score drugs with her kids, it happens ALL the time when someone is addicted. People will do just about anything, I understand this...my point was why drive ALL the way to Florida from Georgia to score drugs in an area you are unfamiliar with??? If she was THAT addicted to drugs like you imply, why didn't she score some in her hometown where she knew that drugs would be sold? There's no guarantee she would have found a candyman at five a.m. in the morning on a strip of motels that people go to for vacation. Looking for drugs in the morning is VERY common, but she left her vehicle and was seen being followed by the man. If she were buying drugs wouldn't she be following this man? And if buying drugs on this motel strip was THAT common, wouldn't this officer have been at least the tiniest bit suspicious seeing two people in a parking lot of one of those motels that early in the morning? That would have been the first thing on that officers mind as he was driving by, and he probably would have pulled in and checked it out if it were true. I didn't know Pamela, I can't tell you if she was on drugs. I can just tell you that I find it unlikely that she would leave with her kids to enjoy one last vacation, drive hundreds of miles in the wee hours of the morning, then arrive at her destination and see that no motels are open and go, "Gee I need a fix...NOW" then lock her kids up in the car while mommy goes out to get high.

(On a side note, according to the Charley project website two officers were among seven witnesses who said they saw Pamela in the parking lot of the motel from when she arrived up until the other officer observed her in the lot with this white man. If she were acting suspicious in any way, or if this was a local spot where people bought drugs, police would have found this EXTREMELY suspicious seeing her sitting in the lot knowing that the motel was closed. And they would have at least questioned her. So we now have three officers who saw her at the parking lot of the motel and none of them noted anything suspicious going on.)

1) Ms. Ray WAS familiar w/ PCB. She was involved in buying a beach home in the area w/ money her father was accidentally given and then illegally spent from a bank error. While she wasn't charged w/ a crime for her activities, the fact that she would have been involved in this type of activity at all speaks to her character in general.

2) I take it that you do not use drugs. If you are addicted to a substance, then clear and rational thinking goes out the window. She probably could have obtained drugs at home. But then that might not have been enough for the time she was on "vacation" in PCB. H-ll, it might not have lasted her until she got to PCB.

Also, it's an "open secret" that there are usually drugs available at or near low budget motels. That reason, and the generally lack of cleanliness found in the them (oh yes and the hookers) are why most people AVOID them. Especially if they have children traveling w/ them.

3) I'm not a cop, but if I drove by in a police car and two people that were talking decided at the EXACT moment that I did, to walk away from where they are at, I might find that act to be suspicious. Especially since it's uncommon for people to be standing around outside having a "chat" at 5am in front of a low budget motel.

Frankly, I'm surprised that the officer didn't at least drive through the lot. Not to see if Ms. Ray was safe, but to determine if these two people even belonged at the motel or if their activities were related to a drug transaction or something else illegal.

4) The ONLY source of "information" anywhere that stated that Ms. Ray was expecting a key to be left by the manager was the poster on here. No newspaper accounts and nothing on UM corroborate their claim. And it again made no sense for that to have happened if it did happen that way. If there were no key, wouldn't the prudent course of action to be to wait at, or near, said motel the few hours until daylight rather driving around looking for another one?

5) All of the actions you have described are the actions of person who was either impaired on drugs or was/is a very short-term thinker. Or both.

From driving at night to a destination w/ two young children...to driving around early in the morning from low budget motel to low budget motel instead using a payphone in a lighted place to locate one...to having a discussion w/ a stranger outside of you car and then walking away from said car w/ that stranger leaving your children alone.

Again, I'm not trying to blame the victim. But not looking at all potential aspects of this crime is just liking saying that you don't want to solve it.

1) Ms. Ray WAS familiar w/ PCB. She was involved in buying a beach home in the area w/ money her father was accidentally given and then illegally spent from a bank error. While she wasn't charged w/ a crime for her activities, the fact that she would have been involved in this type of activity at all speaks to her character in general.

2) I take it that you do not use drugs. If you are addicted to a substance, then clear and rational thinking goes out the window. She probably could have obtained drugs at home. But then that might not have been enough for the time she was on "vacation" in PCB. H-ll, it might not have lasted her until she got to PCB.

Also, it's an "open secret" that there are usually drugs available at or near low budget motels. That reason, and the generally lack of cleanliness found in the them (oh yes and the hookers) are why most people AVOID them. Especially if they have children traveling w/ them.

3) I'm not a cop, but if I drove by in a police car and two people that were talking decided at the EXACT moment that I did, to walk away from where they are at, I might find that act to be suspicious. Especially since it's uncommon for people to be standing around outside having a "chat" at 5am in front of a low budget motel.

Frankly, I'm surprised that the officer didn't at least drive through the lot. Not to see if Ms. Ray was safe, but to determine if these two people even belonged at the motel or if their activities were related to a drug transaction or something else illegal.

4) The ONLY source of "information" anywhere that stated that Ms. Ray was expecting a key to be left by the manager was the poster on here. No newspaper accounts and nothing on UM corroborate their claim. And it again made no sense for that to have happened if it did happen that way. If there were no key, wouldn't the prudent course of action to be to wait at, or near, said motel the few hours until daylight rather driving around looking for another one?

5) All of the actions you have described are the actions of person who was either impaired on drugs or was/is a very short-term thinker. Or both.

From driving at night to a destination w/ two young children...to driving around early in the morning from low budget motel to low budget motel instead using a payphone in a lighted place to locate one...to having a discussion w/ a stranger outside of you car and then walking away from said car w/ that stranger leaving your children alone.

Again, I'm not trying to blame the victim. But not looking at all potential aspects of this crime is just liking saying that you don't want to solve it.

Yes I know that the poster is the only source for the key that was supposed to have been left for her. And the only source we have that this was a "seedy area full of drug ridden motels" is also a poster on here. Kilarney Rose, another poster claims that they were in the area when Pamela disappeared and said, "The Wilhite was an older mom & pop style motel that was a leftover from the 50s and 60s. I think I remember the office as being out in the parking lot, separate from the rest of the hotel. It was common to make arrangements to pick up the key upon arrival at one of these places, we have done it too. It wasn't in a run down area, but there were still quite a few older motels along that stretch of the beach." And that was my whole point about the officer not pulling into the motel parking lot. If drugs were commonly sold at these seedy motels, what's the first thing an officer is going to suspect seeing two people in one of the motels parking lot at five am? He would have investigated further if that were the case.

Let's say for arguments sake say that she was trying to score drugs when she was roaming motel to motel. The UM segment says she arrived at 4:30 am to find all of the motels either closed or no vacancies. Then at 5 am witnesses place Ray in her car outside the Wilhite lobby. Now if she was there to buy drugs, why would she be sitting in her car just waiting for a drug dealer to happen by? Wouldn't she be driving around looking for a dealer? And she had to have went to these other motels on foot (witnesses say her car was always parked at the Wilhite). Would she be that callous to abandon her children in the car while she went out on foot in an unsafe area? That would not only put her children in jeopardy, but also her if she went away from her car looking for drugs. And if she truly were out to obtain some drugs why even bother knocking on the lobby door? If the drug theory is true then she wasn't at these motels looking for a place to stay, so why stick around for a full hour after she arrived if all she was doing was trying to buy drugs? Couldn't she have just driven to a truck stop (where I'm sure drugs can just as easily be purchased) if this were so?

Yes I know that the poster is the only source for the key that was supposed to have been left for her. And the only source we have that this was a "seedy area full of drug ridden motels" is also a poster on here. Kilarney Rose, another poster claims that they were in the area when Pamela disappeared and said, "The Wilhite was an older mom & pop style motel that was a leftover from the 50s and 60s. I think I remember the office as being out in the parking lot, separate from the rest of the hotel. It was common to make arrangements to pick up the key upon arrival at one of these places, we have done it too. It wasn't in a run down area, but there were still quite a few older motels along that stretch of the beach." And that was my whole point about the officer not pulling into the motel parking lot. If drugs were commonly sold at these seedy motels, what's the first thing an officer is going to suspect seeing two people in one of the motels parking lot at five am? He would have investigated further if that were the case.

Let's say for arguments sake say that she was trying to score drugs when she was roaming motel to motel. The UM segment says she arrived at 4:30 am to find all of the motels either closed or no vacancies. Then at 5 am witnesses place Ray in her car outside the Wilhite lobby. Now if she was there to buy drugs, why would she be sitting in her car just waiting for a drug dealer to happen by? Wouldn't she be driving around looking for a dealer? And she had to have went to these other motels on foot (witnesses say her car was always parked at the Wilhite). Would she be that callous to abandon her children in the car while she went out on foot in an unsafe area? That would not only put her children in jeopardy, but also her if she went away from her car looking for drugs. And if she truly were out to obtain some drugs why even bother knocking on the lobby door? If the drug theory is true then she wasn't at these motels looking for a place to stay, so why stick around for a full hour after she arrived if all she was doing was trying to buy drugs? Couldn't she have just driven to a truck stop (where I'm sure drugs can just as easily be purchased) if this were so?

1) Actually there are several sources both in the newspapers and even on the UM segment which tell of the low quality of the Wilhite. The primary one? There were no phones in the rooms.
Not sure how you measure the quality of a place, but I have never stayed in a motel (no matter the cost) in the US where there wasn't a phone in the room.

2) Honestly, I have doubts about what the officer saw when he drove by. If he saw two people talking and then walking away when he drove past, early in the morning before day, why didn't that make him suspicious? Especially if that was part of his regular patrol area?

Since it was included in the segment, I have to assume that it was checked and rechecked by the investigators looking into the case prior to allowing it to be aired. Other than that fact, I have no reason to believe that this occurred. It may have even been "created" by the officer to explain what he SHOULD have seen at that time and place, if he didn't see anything.

3) You both asked and answered your own questions. Why would a rational,unimpaired adult wander around on foot w/ car available to make the same trips? Why would she leave her children in the car and wander around?Why would she talk w/ a complete stranger about anything outside of her car at 5am? Why didn't she just wait an hour or so until it was sunrise and then start her search for a motel room?
I have been to PCB and I know that there are at least two all night restaurants (at least there used to be) there where she could have waited.

4) Finally, how does anybody know exactly what time she arrived in PCB. She could have been in the area at least 1/2 or more before 4:30 am. If so, then what was she doing? Nobody but Ms. Ray knows when she got to PCB. And obviously she isn't available to talk about it.

What strikes me as odd, and suggests she was doing something shady, is that she left for a vacation at 10PM.
I don't know of any person who leaves for a vacation when it's already at night. Commonly if a person is setting out on a trip, they leave in the morning or afternoon--when it's light out.

The fact that she, suddenly, out of the blue decided to leave at 10pm is suspicious. I heard earlier in this thread that her family owed money due to her spending that check which was given to her father in error. Is it possible she wasn't going down there to buys drug to USE, but to sell? Or if not selling drugs, maybe she was trying to sell something else. Maybe she was set to meet someone at one of the hotels in the area, the guy was she was talking to by the car, and it turned out the guy was a psycho.

What strikes me as odd, and suggests she was doing something shady, is that she left for a vacation at 10PM.
I don't know of any person who leaves for a vacation when it's already at night. Commonly if a person is setting out on a trip, they leave in the morning or afternoon--when it's light out.

The fact that she, suddenly, out of the blue decided to leave at 10pm is suspicious. I heard earlier in this thread that her family owed money due to her spending that check which was given to her father in error. Is it possible she wasn't going down there to buys drug to USE, but to sell? Or if not selling drugs, maybe she was trying to sell something else. Maybe she was set to meet someone at one of the hotels in the area, the guy was she was talking to by the car, and it turned out the guy was a psycho.

I know what you mean.
I used to make long drives at night but I no longer do as such given the chances of an accident are higher and if there happens to be a breakdown, the chances of getting assistance are much lower.
And I never did it w/ two children; nor would I have.

1) Here's a link from the charleyproject concerning the money her father received:http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/ray_pamela.html

It was apparently wired incorrectly into his account.

2) And while I hadn't thought about her perhaps selling drugs, it is possible. Or even muling them for somebody else.
The only problem w/ that is if she were selling drugs, she probably would have had a weapon handy and I don't remember reading that one was found either in the car or on ground around it.

3) It is possible that she may have been meeting someone that she didn't know well for some type of "liaison" but things went South quick and she ended up in trouble.

Her behavior in this case has always struck me as very odd and very inappropriate given the fact that she had children w/ her. If she was traveling alone, perhaps some things might have made more sense. But she didn't seem to have her "vacation" planned out too well and that's not a good idea if you are taking children.

I know what you mean.
I used to make long drives at night but I no longer do as such given the chances of an accident are higher and if there happens to be a breakdown, the chances of getting assistance are much lower.
And I never did it w/ two children; nor would I have.

1) Here's a link from the charleyproject concerning the money her father received:http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/ray_pamela.html

It was apparently wired incorrectly into his account.

2) And while I hadn't thought about her perhaps selling drugs, it is possible. Or even muling them for somebody else.
The only problem w/ that is if she were selling drugs, she probably would have had a weapon handy and I don't remember reading that one was found either in the car or on ground around it.

3) It is possible that she may have been meeting someone that she didn't know well for some type of "liaison" but things went South quick and she ended up in trouble.

Her behavior in this case has always struck me as very odd and very inappropriate given the fact that she had children w/ her. If she was traveling alone, perhaps some things might have made more sense. But she didn't seem to have her "vacation" planned out too well and that's not a good idea if you are taking children.

As to your second point, it's not really necessary that she had a weapon. What if she had never done this sort of thing (selling drugs or getting involved with shady people) before? She could've been an utterly decent person driven to doing something like this out of desperation because of the money issue. People do crazy things, things they'd never do normally out of desperation. She might have been a bit naive with that sort of sleazy world and not thought to take a weapon--thinking it was a simple transaction and on the up and up. You know what I mean?

Remember, this is the Pre-Internet days, the days when such abductions and murders weren't the subject of national news. Just how scummy and sickening some people can be was a less well known thing than it is today. You have to try to put yourself in the perspective of someone living in the world of 1992 when trying to reconstruct Pamela's steps or her motivations for acting as she did.

In 2010, we have the benefit of shows like Unsolved Mysteries and the memories of cases like Natalie Halloway and Jonbenet Ramsey to show us how careful we need to be and how many deranged and sick people there are out there. We didn't have that in 1992--In some ways, it was a bit more naive, or more innocent seeming world in that respect.

I had the benefit of being raised with a street wise parent, so therefore I've always been naturally a bit careful with regard to trips and stuff. As a kid in the mid 1990s--My parent and I did go on an unplanned trips where we just checked into a hotel on a whim without a reservation, BUT, we always did during daylight. We also didn't leave for a trip at 10pm. We also didn't check into hotels in what were scummy seeming areas.

Another odd fact of this case is Pamela owned a place near PCB, right? If she was taking a ''vacation'' and was having a problem finding a hotel, why didn't she just take her kids to that place she owned in Panama Beach for the night? What in God's name was she doing at 5am? Suspicious.

Also, the fact that she left her kids in the car to look at those hotels at 5 am is very suspicious as well. Even in the more naive world of 1992, who would leave little CHILDREN in a car utterly alone in the middle of the night in a dark, seedy area? That seems utterly suspicious to me.

IMHO, (and no, I'm not trying to bash the victim) Ms. Ray's behavior sounds to me like she was high on drugs or was attempting score when she met w/ the wrong person.

I agree with this assessment. I'm not saying its true but its just as good a scenario as any other. This thought had crossed my mind as well but I didn't want to mention it due to PJR's daughter posting on here. I alluded to the story of a "spur of the moment vacation" not making any sense in earlier posts. I don't know of anyone, especially a woman with kids, who decides to drop what they are doing and go on a vacation at 10pm.

1) Actually there are several sources both in the newspapers and even on the UM segment which tell of the low quality of the Wilhite. The primary one? There were no phones in the rooms.
Not sure how you measure the quality of a place, but I have never stayed in a motel (no matter the cost) in the US where there wasn't a phone in the room.

2) Honestly, I have doubts about what the officer saw when he drove by. If he saw two people talking and then walking away when he drove past, early in the morning before day, why didn't that make him suspicious? Especially if that was part of his regular patrol area?

Since it was included in the segment, I have to assume that it was checked and rechecked by the investigators looking into the case prior to allowing it to be aired. Other than that fact, I have no reason to believe that this occurred. It may have even been "created" by the officer to explain what he SHOULD have seen at that time and place, if he didn't see anything.

3) You both asked and answered your own questions. Why would a rational,unimpaired adult wander around on foot w/ car available to make the same trips? Why would she leave her children in the car and wander around?Why would she talk w/ a complete stranger about anything outside of her car at 5am? Why didn't she just wait an hour or so until it was sunrise and then start her search for a motel room?
I have been to PCB and I know that there are at least two all night restaurants (at least there used to be) there where she could have waited.

4) Finally, how does anybody know exactly what time she arrived in PCB. She could have been in the area at least 1/2 or more before 4:30 am. If so, then what was she doing? Nobody but Ms. Ray knows when she got to PCB. And obviously she isn't available to talk about it.

1) Good points about the phones. But you also have to remember that the Wilhite was an older motel (a leftover from the 50's) which is probably why there were no phones in the rooms. And also, this motel was right on the water, doesn't that usually raise the cost of staying at these places? And by raising the cost, that lowers the chance that you'll get a low-life trying to sell drugs to decent people staying there. I've never seen a shady looking motel situated at a prime spot for people to stay at a beach.

2) Why would the officer make this up? What the officer saw did not make his suspicious because this was NOT A DRUG BUY area, and he figured it was people there for a vacation not drugs.

3) I could see her being frustrated with the Wilhite not being open (especially if the poster who claimed to be her daughter was telling the truth about the key), so she left her personal belongings and her kids locked up and tried the motels nearby. She would have nothing to worry about if she were just looking for a place to stay. If she had been out trying to score drugs, she would have driven in her car and had access to her purse. Who dumps their kids off and sets out on foot in search for drugs at MOTELS that early in the morning?

4) I based that time of 4:30 off of the UM segment. If she did arrive earlier than 4:30, it still doesn't matter IMO. Her car was always parked in front of the Wilhite lobby from the time she arrived to the time police found it the next morning. Judging by the location of her car, it seems to me that she intended to wait it out in her car until the lobby opened up, and that's when she encountered the man outside.

I just believe that those of you who are wanting to create a drug buying/selling scenario are wrong. Period. As one that has been to that area many times, the Wilhite, and surrounding motels were an area that many people came to for family vacations.There was nothing seedy about it and there were at the time nothing there in that stretch, but motels. These older ones like the Wilhite were old, but well kept and many families used them for vacations.

I also don't see a thing odd about traveling at night with children. My daddy's favorite time to travel on vacations was at night. My husband and I did it many times also when our children were young. They would sleep the whole way and in a way, it sort of gives you an extra vacation day to drive at night.

And having gone through the frustration of arriving in PCB at night and not finding the motel key in place as arranged, I can certainly understand PJR's actions that night/morning. I think you are insulting her by conjuring up this drug scenario and trying to create a seedy motel where there wasn't one.

I just believe that those of you who are wanting to create a drug buying/selling scenario are wrong. Period. As one that has been to that area many times, the Wilhite, and surrounding motels were an area that many people came to for family vacations.There was nothing seedy about it and there were at the time nothing there in that stretch, but motels. These older ones like the Wilhite were old, but well kept and many families used them for vacations.

I also don't see a thing odd about traveling at night with children. My daddy's favorite time to travel on vacations was at night. My husband and I did it many times also when our children were young. They would sleep the whole way and in a way, it sort of gives you an extra vacation day to drive at night.

And having gone through the frustration of arriving in PCB at night and not finding the motel key in place as arranged, I can certainly understand PJR's actions that night/morning. I think you are insulting her by conjuring up this drug scenario and trying to create a seedy motel where there wasn't one.

We can certainly agree to disagree, poster.
However, why does a possible drug angle "bother" you?
It in no way lessens the fact that a crime was committed and,if true, could (or could have) pointed the police in a new direction that might have solved this case.

1) I have been to PCB , although never to the Wilhite. I have also stayed at a number of motels and hotels around the country. While the Wilhite may not be a "dump" (according to the people who have posted on here saying that they are familiar w/ the property) it did have three indicators that it wasn't rated well by Fodor's: There were no telephones in the rooms; the guests didn't feel the need to go outside and investigate noises/screams at 5am; and a police officer didn't find two people standing outside of its closed office apparently talking, again at 5am, to be suspicious behavior.

Not sure how you rate motels,poster, but the above items are a sign, at least to me, of this not being a good area to be in early in the morning. Especially for an apparently unarmed woman w/ two children.

2) You pointed out two examples of MEN traveling w/ their families to a destination. That wasn't the case here. Ms. Ray was traveling w/ two children and no male adult. Traveling w/o another adult, at night, was for her, a risky proposition for multiple reasons.

3) Even if Ms. Ray was frustrated by a key not being left out for her (a fact, I have to remind you, was only presented by a person in this forum and not by any news accounts or by the UM segment) the reactions she had to it were, at best, not very rational. Rather than going to a chain motel in her car, or going to a truck stop/restaurant and waiting the few hours at most until daylight, she decides to walk on foot between multiple motels that would have either displayed "No Vacancy" signs or would have been visibly closed (no lights,locked doors,etc).

She also didn't go to a payphone to call her spouse and let him know that she had arrived. She didn't just sit in her car w/ the doors locked at the motel and wait for it to open. She decided to engage a complete stranger in what had to be a rather useless conversation in a parking lot at 5am. She then left her children alone for a reason that remains unknown and walked out of sight around the side of a motel with which she was unfamiliar. These actions created the situation that, sadly, some psycho took advantage of and she disappeared.

And here's last one: She obviously saw the police car driving by the motel. If she was concerned about being locked out of the motel, why didn't she simply flag down the officer and ask him for assistance? While I know that the police aren't tour guides and that they are busy, it would have been a far more prudent move than chatting w/ a total stranger in parking lot at 5am.

If you worry about "insulting" people when you are trying solve a mystery, then you are doing them a disservice as you aren't giving 100% effort towards solving that mystery.

You are right- we can agree to disagree.

This from The Charley Project-

"On a side note, a bank clerk in Georgia mistakenly wired approximately $400,000 into Ray's father's account in 1989. Ray was allegedly one of the family members who helped her father spend the money. Ray's father pleaded guilty to theft of mislaid property in 1991. He repaid the majority of the cash, but prosecutors were frustrated with the lack of payment progress. Other family members, including Ray and her husband, were indicted in 1992 and released on bond. The family reportedly purchased a condominium at the Gulf Highlands Beach Resort in Panama City under Ray's name. Investigators do not believe that the financial problems were connected to Ray's disappearance."

When she first dissappeared, a lot of people thought that it might have been on purpose due to the legal problems with the money/bank. I think all that died don and it is believed that she was kidnapped.

Someone questioned why she would be staying at a place like the Wilhite when they had bought a condo at PCB. The quote says "reportedly bought". Also, if they had to pay the money back to the bank, the condo was either repossessed or sold. I seriously doubt it was kept by the family. People stayed at the Wilhite because it was inexpensive compared to the chains. If they were wanting to get away for a bit and having money problems it makes perfect sense why she would choose such a place.

If you worry about "insulting" people when you are trying solve a mystery, then you are doing them a disservice as you aren't giving 100% effort towards solving that mystery.


I agree with this statement. You have to explore every avenue, even it means insulting someone.

I have no problem in people suspecting she was involved in drugs, I don't find it insulting at all. But her family obviously wants to find her. And don't you think law enforcement would have explored that possibility that she was attempting to buy drugs? Wouldn't law enforcement be encouraging people to be on the look out for a potential drug dealing psychopath? It would have been all over the Charley Project website. They felt it necessary to post about her illegally spending money that wasn't hers, but they wouldn't include the fact that she had a drug problem? Sorry, I still don't buy it. The simple fact that the officer didn't suspect ANYTHING wrong shows that this isn't a high frequented drug area. Maybe she was asking if he knew of any all night restaurants, truck stops, etc.

The big point here is whether or not this man was following her, or if she was following the man. If he was following her (as the UM segment stated) then that pretty much shreds any possibility of her trying to buy drugs or else she wouldn't be leading the way. Other websites say that she was following the man which could be perceived that she may have been trying to buy drugs. I wonder which one is true?

I just realized- the perception of who was following who could depend on different people driving by at different times, not all at the same time. Yes, i am sure the whole scenario happened pretty fast, but if he spent a few minutes talking to her and building her trust before he made his move, they could have been moving around.

Cars, I agree with what you said, and I still think this guy posed as a hotel employee or helpful guest in order to take her.

I have no problem in people suspecting she was involved in drugs, I don't find it insulting at all. But her family obviously wants to find her. And don't you think law enforcement would have explored that possibility that she was attempting to buy drugs? Wouldn't law enforcement be encouraging people to be on the look out for a potential drug dealing psychopath? It would have been all over the Charley Project website. They felt it necessary to post about her illegally spending money that wasn't hers, but they wouldn't include the fact that she had a drug problem? Sorry, I still don't buy it. The simple fact that the officer didn't suspect ANYTHING wrong shows that this isn't a high frequented drug area. Maybe she was asking if he knew of any all night restaurants, truck stops, etc.

The big point here is whether or not this man was following her, or if she was following the man. If he was following her (as the UM segment stated) then that pretty much shreds any possibility of her trying to buy drugs or else she wouldn't be leading the way. Other websites say that she was following the man which could be perceived that she may have been trying to buy drugs. I wonder which one is true?

1) This is a tourist town. Anything that would "mar" the image of the town (like open drug sales) wouldn't be emphasized, and would in fact, probably be pushed to the rear of any investigation,especially if the police chief was a political animal.

2) There are a range of drug usage states, from recreational user to hardcore addict. She could have potentially fallen anywhere in that range and as result may have been looking for drugs for casual use.

3) The officer may not have been that good of a police officer. It was close to shift change , so maybe he didn't want the hassles of the paperwork and a potential confrontation if he did stop. That he didn't find two people talking in front of a motel at 5am and then walking away as he drove by as being "suspicious" may mean that he wasn't/isn't that good of a policeman.

Additionally, since his was the only account of that happening, how do we know that it even DID go down like that? Maybe he needed to "invent" the sighting to explain where he was at the time and why may not have seen what he should have.

4) I don't know how much the charleyproject knows about Pamela Ray. I don't know if they now how solid her marriage was (obviously not that solid, given that she was vacationing alone w/ her kids) if she was involved w/ another man or if she was or not a user of illegal drugs. All of those things are relatively easy to find out and yet they also aren't on the web site.

I'd give (and I give) far more credence to newspaper accounts and the UM segment than I would to any web site unless it was carefully researched and footnoted.

Again even if Ms. Ray wasn't using drugs or on drugs at the time, her behavior was very odd.Had she waved down the officer instead of walking out sight around the building we probably wouldn't be discussing this right now.

5) Why would that "shred" any credibility in a drug purchase theory? He may told her to walk ahead of him when the police car drove by. Or he may told her to make it look like they were guests at the motel( which apparently neither were at the time.)

6) Here's another thing: Where were/are Ms. Ray's female friends? Wouldn't they be spearheading any search for her and be the ones that would likely have some insight into her and her personality? Why wouldn't one of them have volunteered to make the trip w/ her? Whenever I hear of a female that doesn't have any close personal friends,I have to wonder why that is the case.

The more anybody looks at this case, the more it seems likely that the disappearance was drug related in some manner. That doesn't in any manner "blame" the victim. It simply makes a bizarre situation more explainable and it makes looking for a suspect somewhat easier.

1) This is a tourist town. Anything that would "mar" the image of the town (like open drug sales) wouldn't be emphasized, and would in fact, probably be pushed to the rear of any investigation,especially if the police chief was a political animal.

2) There are a range of drug usage states, from recreational user to hardcore addict. She could have potentially fallen anywhere in that range and as result may have been looking for drugs for casual use.

3) The officer may not have been that good of a police officer. It was close to shift change , so maybe he didn't want the hassles of the paperwork and a potential confrontation if he did stop. That he didn't find two people talking in front of a motel at 5am and then walking away as he drove by as being "suspicious" may mean that he wasn't/isn't that good of a policeman.

Additionally, since his was the only account of that happening, how do we know that it even DID go down like that? Maybe he needed to "invent" the sighting to explain where he was at the time and why may not have seen what he should have.

4) I don't know how much the charleyproject knows about Pamela Ray. I don't know if they now how solid her marriage was (obviously not that solid, given that she was vacationing alone w/ her kids) if she was involved w/ another man or if she was or not a user of illegal drugs. All of those things are relatively easy to find out and yet they also aren't on the web site.

I'd give (and I give) far more credence to newspaper accounts and the UM segment than I would to any web site unless it was carefully researched and footnoted.

Again even if Ms. Ray wasn't using drugs or on drugs at the time, her behavior was very odd.Had she waved down the officer instead of walking out sight around the building we probably wouldn't be discussing this right now.

5) Why would that "shred" any credibility in a drug purchase theory? He may told her to walk ahead of him when the police car drove by. Or he may told her to make it look like they were guests at the motel( which apparently neither were at the time.)

6) Here's another thing: Where were/are Ms. Ray's female friends? Wouldn't they be spearheading any search for her and be the ones that would likely have some insight into her and her personality? Why wouldn't one of them have volunteered to make the trip w/ her? Whenever I hear of a female that doesn't have any close personal friends,I have to wonder why that is the case.

The more anybody looks at this case, the more it seems likely that the disappearance was drug related in some manner. That doesn't in any manner "blame" the victim. It simply makes a bizarre situation more explainable and it makes looking for a suspect somewhat easier.

Everything you just said was bizarre. How do we know Ray didn't have any close personal friends? She disappeared in 1992 and I'm sure her friends and family have accepted the fact that she's been gone so long in all probability she's dead. Her family would have insight on her personality and would know of a drug problem more likely than a personal friend. Why are you questioning the police officers statement? He would have no reason to lie and now your not only making assumptions that Ray was a drug user but also this police officer was incompetent. What newspaper accounts have you seen on this? Everything I've ever seen was on the web and the UM segment. Just because the father did not accompany them does not indicate the marriage was in disarray. My father missed one vacation with me and my family because he had to work. So instead of accepting the story that Ray was just there to get in one last vacation before the summer was over and unfortunately was abducted, you're going to accept the fact that she was on some late night fix (with her kids) and needed drugs THAT bad to where she would look for them at various motels in the area? And that the police officer invented seeing her or was just a really bad cop? What's more farfetched?

I've never been a drug user but I'm fairly certain that if one were scoping an area to find drugs but coming up empty handed then that person would look elsewhere. Ray's car was always at the Wilhite lobby. Since she was there for at least an hour before the witnesses placed her waiting in her car at 5 am, she obviously knew there weren't any drug dealers around. Why wait in her car for one to just happen upon this motel lobby? It's obvious she was in her car waiting for the place to open.

Everything you just said was bizarre. How do we know Ray didn't have any close personal friends? She disappeared in 1992 and I'm sure her friends and family have accepted the fact that she's been gone so long in all probability she's dead. Her family would have insight on her personality and would know of a drug problem more likely than a personal friend. Why are you questioning the police officers statement? He would have no reason to lie and now your not only making assumptions that Ray was a drug user but also this police officer was incompetent. What newspaper accounts have you seen on this? Everything I've ever seen was on the web and the UM segment. Just because the father did not accompany them does not indicate the marriage was in disarray. My father missed one vacation with me and my family because he had to work. So instead of accepting the story that Ray was just there to get in one last vacation before the summer was over and unfortunately was abducted, you're going to accept the fact that she was on some late night fix (with her kids) and needed drugs THAT bad to where she would look for them at various motels in the area? And that the police officer invented seeing her or was just a really bad cop? What's more farfetched?

I've never been a drug user but I'm fairly certain that if one were scoping an area to find drugs but coming up empty handed then that person would look elsewhere. Ray's car was always at the Wilhite lobby. Since she was there for at least an hour before the witnesses placed her waiting in her car at 5 am, she obviously knew there weren't any drug dealers around. Why wait in her car for one to just happen upon this motel lobby? It's obvious she was in her car waiting for the place to open.

Is what I said really "bizarre" poster or did you simply not understand it?

1) Obviously I was talking about at the time of her disappearance not now many years later. Ms. Ray's friends could have provided insight into the case, including the state of her marriage, whether she used drugs or not and why she might have made the decisions that she did.
I'm surprised that none of her female friends were on the segment talking about the case as they would know her as well or better than her husband would have.

2) You are aware of how an investigation works,right? There are no questions that are off limits and all avenues have to be explored, even if they are unpleasant and make the person being investigated or the investigators themselves, look "bad."

The police officer was only person claiming to have seen the victim at/around the time she disappeared. He was (according to him) able to identify her while driving past at 5am (while it was still dark) from... let's say at least 50-75 feet away after seeing her for maybe 5-10 seconds. He wasn't able to identify the man talking to her even though he also saw him for the same amount of time at the same location.

This officer wasn't tired? Or possibly mistaken? Or at a loss to explain why maybe he didn't see something when he should have? I'm sure that he was questioned by his superiors about the time period in question and if there were any "holes" in his story that they were "filled in" either by him or by his superiors.

3) How do you know that the car was "always at the Wilhite lobby?" It doesn't say that in the segment. Is there a videotape showing this? Was a witness constantly watching the vehicle? Did the children say that?

The are several dozen motels/hotel in the PCB area. Finding that this one was closed and the other ones nearby were also closed or vacant, wouldn't driving to a larger chain hotel or even a truck stop been a more prudent move that waiting outside a closed motel or walking around to other motels?

Doesn't your not "liking" theories that don't match your own (whatever that is) simply mean that you aren't a particularly skilled investigator? Or that you are unable to see past your own personal biases when those biases conflict w/ the facts as they are presented?

Is what I said really "bizarre" poster or did you simply not understand it?

1) Obviously I was talking about at the time of her disappearance not now many years later. Ms. Ray's friends could have provided insight into the case, including the state of her marriage, whether she used drugs or not and why she might have made the decisions that she did.
I'm surprised that none of her female friends were on the segment talking about the case as they would know her as well or better than her husband would have.

2) You are aware of how an investigation works,right? There are no questions that are off limits and all avenues have to be explored, even if they are unpleasant and make the person being investigated or the investigators themselves, look "bad."

The police officer was only person claiming to have seen the victim at/around the time she disappeared. He was (according to him) able to identify her while driving past at 5am (while it was still dark) from... let's say at least 50-75 feet away after seeing her for maybe 5-10 seconds. He wasn't able to identify the man talking to her even though he also saw him for the same amount of time at the same location.

This officer wasn't tired? Or possibly mistaken? Or at a loss to explain why maybe he didn't see something when he should have? I'm sure that he was questioned by his superiors about the time period in question and if there were any "holes" in his story that they were "filled in" either by him or by his superiors.

3) How do you know that the car was "always at the Wilhite lobby?" It doesn't say that in the segment. Is there a videotape showing this? Was a witness constantly watching the vehicle? Did the children say that?

The are several dozen motels/hotel in the PCB area. Finding that this one was closed and the other ones nearby were also closed or vacant, wouldn't driving to a larger chain hotel or even a truck stop been a more prudent move that waiting outside a closed motel or walking around to other motels?

Doesn't your not "liking" theories that don't match your own (whatever that is) simply mean that you aren't a particularly skilled investigator? Or that you are unable to see past your own personal biases when those biases conflict w/ the facts as they are presented?

1) The UM segment was no longer than five minutes on Ray. I have no idea why her friends did not appear on camera. The shorter segments had less people interviewed, and UM probably felt content with interviewing her husband. Wouldn't her father have noted an unhappy marriage? He appeared on camera. He'd be more likely to be outspoken against her husband if he didn't like him.

2) The officer saw pictures of her after she was reported missing. And he saw this woman outside of Ray's car. It's safe to say he made a positive identification of her just based off of those two facts alone.

3) I'm taking this info from the Charley project website. It says after she arrived her car was parked in the Wilhite lot for the remainder of the night. And the same argument could be used if she were buying drugs. Why wait around hoping for a drug dealer to suddenly appear instead of going elsewhere to get her drugs? A truck stop is certainly more seedy than a beach strip motel.

I never said I didn't "like" any theory. I've said before I did not know Ray personally and I can't for certain that she didn't have a drug problem. You haven't printed ANY facts what-so-ever in terms of your theory. Pure speculation. The fact of the matter is this lady is still missing, and most likley dead. Instead of debating on whether or not she was buying drugs the focus should be on who was responsible for her disappearance.

1) The UM segment was no longer than five minutes on Ray. I have no idea why her friends did not appear on camera. The shorter segments had less people interviewed, and UM probably felt content with interviewing her husband. Wouldn't her father have noted an unhappy marriage? He appeared on camera. He'd be more likely to be outspoken against her husband if he didn't like him.

2) The officer saw pictures of her after she was reported missing. And he saw this woman outside of Ray's car. It's safe to say he made a positive identification of her just based off of those two facts alone.

3) I'm taking this info from the Charley project website. It says after she arrived her car was parked in the Wilhite lot for the remainder of the night. And the same argument could be used if she were buying drugs. Why wait around hoping for a drug dealer to suddenly appear instead of going elsewhere to get her drugs? A truck stop is certainly more seedy than a beach strip motel.

I never said I didn't "like" any theory. I've said before I did not know Ray personally and I can't for certain that she didn't have a drug problem. You haven't printed ANY facts what-so-ever in terms of your theory. Pure speculation. The fact of the matter is this lady is still missing, and most likley dead. Instead of debating on whether or not she was buying drugs the focus should be on who was responsible for her disappearance.

Using logic like yours this case has remained unsolved for almost 20 years and has grown cold.
Isn't it obvious, even to you, that new lines of thought are required?

Using logic like yours this case has remained unsolved for almost 20 years and has grown cold.
Isn't it obvious, even to you, that new lines of thought are required?

You're right. Let's discuss how she could have been abducted by aliens.

You're right. Let's discuss how she could have been abducted by aliens.

Hahahahaha, you two need to agree to disagree and move on. But that was a funny reply, Cars.

You're right. Let's discuss how she could have been abducted by aliens.

Yow... A 20-year-old possible murder case, used as a source of humor.
How droll.

You must really be a hit at parties.

Hahahahaha, you two need to agree to disagree and move on. But that was a funny reply, Cars.

I suppose it was easier for him to try and tee off on me, then it was to actually present theories or research to try and solve this.

Since I started posting this on here last week, I managed to find several sources of information pertaining to this case. However, the majority of them are either cut and paste versions from the Charleyproject website or they are from the local area paper, but they appear to have been altered from the original text.

The police had a suspect in 1995; a man who'd been arrested for rape who matched the description of a man seen urinating in public near where Ms. Ray vanished. However, he was not tried as the victim was unable to correctly identify him before a trial date was set.

It's very odd that:

1) Ms. Ray was shown wearing flip-flops in the re-creation. How was it possible that neither or both of the flip-flops were found after she was abducted? The killer took the time to restrain Ms. Ray AND clean up after himself?

2) If Ms. Ray's possible killer wasn't staying at any of the hotels/motels on the strip, where was he staying? Was he a local? And if so, was the question asked by the police I wonder.

3) Clearly Ms. Ray's assailant must have been driving some type of vehicle. You have to ask, did any of the guests either see or hear the vehicle leaving the area at or around the time that this occurred?

4) Apparently Ms. Ray's abductor was skilled enough to have taken her early in the morning and not have left many if any clues as to his identity. I've always felt that odd that an individual that skilled would be walking along at 5 AM in the morning and beachfront tourist area.

I wonder if other women were not approached by this man either that night or on nights prior to Ms. Ray's disappearance. And if so, were they questioned by the police?

5) It's actually somewhat disheartening that the city of Panama City Beach, Florida hasn't really stepped up to the plate in an attempt to have this murder solved. I realize that it's been 20 years, but the unsolved disappearance of a female tourist is hardly "good for business", is it?

Perhaps if they did, or do, offer a substantial reward for information someone will come forward even after all this time.

It's very odd that:

1) Ms. Ray was shown wearing flip-flops in the re-creation. How was it possible that neither or both of the flip-flops were found after she was abducted? The killer took the time to restrain Ms. Ray AND clean up after himself?

Was she actually known to be wearing flip flops when she dissappeared?

2) If Ms. Ray's possible killer wasn't staying at any of the hotels/motels on the strip, where was he staying? Was he a local? And if so, was the question asked by the police I wonder.

I too, would be interested in knowing how much the PD investigated this.Did the fix on the aforementioned suspect and not follow up on any other possible leads?

3) Clearly Ms. Ray's assailant must have been driving some type of vehicle. You have to ask, did any of the guests either see or hear the vehicle leaving the area at or around the time that this occurred?

Again- the police report would be interesting to read.

4) Apparently Ms. Ray's abductor was skilled enough to have taken her early in the morning and not have left many if any clues as to his identity. I've always felt that odd that an individual that skilled would be walking along at 5 AM in the morning and beachfront tourist area.

I am not so sure it was skill as much as dumb luck and bad weather washing away evidence.

I wonder if other women were not approached by this man either that night or on nights prior to Ms. Ray's disappearance. And if so, were they questioned by the police?

5) It's actually somewhat disheartening that the city of Panama City Beach, Florida hasn't really stepped up to the plate in an attempt to have this murder solved. I realize that it's been 20 years, but the unsolved disappearance of a female tourist is hardly "good for business", is it?

There is a bit of local (wiregrass area speculation) that the PC PD is corrupt. I am just throwing that out there. There are a few locals talkibg on other local MBs about it. I am not sure how much of it I believe though.

Perhaps if they did, or do, offer a substantial reward for information someone will come forward even after all this time.


It would be interesting to see just what a cold case squad could come up with all these years.

But it might be that what the daughter said earlier is true. They know who the killer is, but w/o evidence and a body, there is nothing more to do.

I suppose it was easier for him to try and tee off on me, then it was to actually present theories or research to try and solve this.

Since I started posting this on here last week, I managed to find several sources of information pertaining to this case. However, the majority of them are either cut and paste versions from the Charleyproject website or they are from the local area paper, but they appear to have been altered from the original text.

The police had a suspect in 1995; a man who'd been arrested for rape who matched the description of a man seen urinating in public near where Ms. Ray vanished. However, he was not tried as the victim was unable to correctly identify him before a trial date was set.

It's very odd that:

1) Ms. Ray was shown wearing flip-flops in the re-creation. How was it possible that neither or both of the flip-flops were found after she was abducted? The killer took the time to restrain Ms. Ray AND clean up after himself?

2) If Ms. Ray's possible killer wasn't staying at any of the hotels/motels on the strip, where was he staying? Was he a local? And if so, was the question asked by the police I wonder.

3) Clearly Ms. Ray's assailant must have been driving some type of vehicle. You have to ask, did any of the guests either see or hear the vehicle leaving the area at or around the time that this occurred?

4) Apparently Ms. Ray's abductor was skilled enough to have taken her early in the morning and not have left many if any clues as to his identity. I've always felt that odd that an individual that skilled would be walking along at 5 AM in the morning and beachfront tourist area.

I wonder if other women were not approached by this man either that night or on nights prior to Ms. Ray's disappearance. And if so, were they questioned by the police?

5) It's actually somewhat disheartening that the city of Panama City Beach, Florida hasn't really stepped up to the plate in an attempt to have this murder solved. I realize that it's been 20 years, but the unsolved disappearance of a female tourist is hardly "good for business", is it?

Perhaps if they did, or do, offer a substantial reward for information someone will come forward even after all this time.

I've already presented what I think happened in this case, ad nauseam. I think it's a fair assumption that police should be looking in the direction of the man who sexually assaulted the woman from Chipley, Florida. This guy fit the police officers description of the man he saw with Ray the morning she disappeared. Again it's a case of the old cliche, no body no crime unfortunately. And there was a heavy downpour on the day she disappeared which most likely washed away important evidence that could have identified this man.

I suppose it was easier for him to try and tee off on me, then it was to actually present theories or research to try and solve this.

Since I started posting this on here last week, I managed to find several sources of information pertaining to this case. However, the majority of them are either cut and paste versions from the Charleyproject website or they are from the local area paper, but they appear to have been altered from the original text.

The police had a suspect in 1995; a man who'd been arrested for rape who matched the description of a man seen urinating in public near where Ms. Ray vanished. However, he was not tried as the victim was unable to correctly identify him before a trial date was set.

It's very odd that:

1) Ms. Ray was shown wearing flip-flops in the re-creation. How was it possible that neither or both of the flip-flops were found after she was abducted? The killer took the time to restrain Ms. Ray AND clean up after himself?

2) If Ms. Ray's possible killer wasn't staying at any of the hotels/motels on the strip, where was he staying? Was he a local? And if so, was the question asked by the police I wonder.

3) Clearly Ms. Ray's assailant must have been driving some type of vehicle. You have to ask, did any of the guests either see or hear the vehicle leaving the area at or around the time that this occurred?

4) Apparently Ms. Ray's abductor was skilled enough to have taken her early in the morning and not have left many if any clues as to his identity. I've always felt that odd that an individual that skilled would be walking along at 5 AM in the morning and beachfront tourist area.

I wonder if other women were not approached by this man either that night or on nights prior to Ms. Ray's disappearance. And if so, were they questioned by the police?

5) It's actually somewhat disheartening that the city of Panama City Beach, Florida hasn't really stepped up to the plate in an attempt to have this murder solved. I realize that it's been 20 years, but the unsolved disappearance of a female tourist is hardly "good for business", is it?

Perhaps if they did, or do, offer a substantial reward for information someone will come forward even after all this time.

Yea, I wasn't laughing at you, I just thought it was funny.

Anyway, the two theories that I lean toward are:

1. Your drug buying theory, which I think is just as good as any other theory, but it makes sense.

2. She was abducted by someone pretending to be the manager of the hotel. If you believe the poster "BrandiRay" who claims to be PJR's daughter and was in the car when the abduction occurred, then it was raining heavily when they arrived and the manager of the Wilhite was supposed to leave am key in the mailbox.

I think what could have happened was she went to the mailbox hoping to find a key but did not see it. She then looked to see if anyone (possibly the manager) was walking around and could obtain the key. She probably saw the abductor and asked "have you seen the manager?" or "are you the manager?" Maybe this guy just said yes but that his keys to his office were in his car and she followed him and once they were at the car, he abducted her.

Also on the charley project, it says there was a suspect of interest in 2000 but no arrests were made because he could not conclusively be tied to PJR's disappearance/murder. "BrandiRay" stated that her family has a suspect in mind who is already in prison for several heinous crimes. IMO, as I stated in previous posts, the first name that pops out at me for a crime against a woman in Florida, is Oba Chandler. I would not rule him out in any rape/murder in Florida.

2. She was abducted by someone pretending to be the manager of the hotel. If you believe the poster "BrandiRay" who claims to be PJR's daughter and was in the car when the abduction occurred, then it was raining heavily when they arrived and the manager of the Wilhite was supposed to leave am key in the mailbox.

I think what could have happened was she went to the mailbox hoping to find a key but did not see it. She then looked to see if anyone (possibly the manager) was walking around and could obtain the key. She probably saw the abductor and asked "have you seen the manager?" or "are you the manager?" Maybe this guy just said yes but that his keys to his office were in his car and she followed him and once they were at the car, he abducted her.




I too think this is exactly what happened.

IMO, as I stated in previous posts, the first name that pops out at me for a crime against a woman in Florida, is Oba Chandler. I would not rule him out in any rape/murder in Florida.

Agreed. This guy preyed on women, vacationing alone in the Florida area. Chandler's whereabouts at the time of Ray's disappearance should be looked into further.

Again, I'm not trying to blame the victim. But not looking at all potential aspects of this crime is just liking saying that you don't want to solve it.

But thats not what you're doing. All you've done is stated that her actions seem bizarre to you, accused the woman of being a negligent mother and drug addict with no actual evidence of such, because you think what she did was odd. You continualy use quotation marks to imply sinister motives to her "vacation" and openly accused the police department of covering up the mistakes you are positive the patrolling officer made.

Look at all the potential aspects of a crime but drug addiction has never been an aspect of this crime. There's no public evidence to support she had a drug problem. Why is that? I would assume its because that was looked into immediately by LE and there was nowhere to go with it. However because you think its not normal to do what Pamela June Ray did leading up to her kidnapping you make the wild assertion that its evidence of a drug addict's behavior. Here's a bit of why I think you're so wrong on this:

Looking for drugs at 5am in the morning is also VERY common .

Thats just simply not true. Like not treu at all. TRY looking for drugs that early in the morning. Have you ever been drug shopping at 5 am? How do you know its "VERY common"?. You go over to a drug dealer's house at 5 in the morning trying to cop and he'll call the cops on you himself. Your whole drug addled search for drugs theory is unrealistic. A drug addict doesn't strike out with their children on a trip just figuring to find some drugs in a seedy part of town at 5 am...just hoping and figuring she'll find someone she can walk up to and say "Excuse me buddy, got any drugs I may buy?" . Drug addicts don't take trips without knowing they have stuff with them. They would have their drugs with them before they left, scored in their hometown by their regular dealer.

I think the drug addled, drug seeking behavior theory is hogwash and its not just because I think you're insulting the family or the woman's memory. I'm sure the family has heard every theory under the sun and what with the fraud charges they're used to whispers and gossip and "theories". I only typed that above because I think you've made some wildly innacurate statements and are pulling things out of nowhere. It wouldn't be so bad but you then accuse others of not understanding what you type just because what you're saying makes no logical sense, it has absolutely ZERO tangible evidence to back it up, and well frankly your condescending tone and little insulting shots annoy me.

Comments like this one:

...I'm sure that he was questioned by his superiors about the time period in question and if there were any "holes" in his story that they were "filled in" either by him or by his superiors.

...are frustrating. What evidence do you have of malfeasance by LE? What evidence do you have that the reporting officer needed to be covered for? How would you go about getting such evidence?

Simply spouting off wild ideas with no evidence doesn't make you an investigator or mean you're doing even one thing to help solve the mystery of this woman's disappearance. I'm with TheCars1986, there's as much evidence of alien abduction as there is of the drug angle you've decided must be discussed lest we be accused of not being serious.

Simply spouting off wild ideas with no evidence doesn't make you an investigator or mean you're doing even one thing to help solve the mystery of this woman's disappearance. I'm with TheCars1986, there's as much evidence of alien abduction as there is of the drug angle you've decided must be discussed lest we be accused of not being serious.

Corky! Long time, no see.

I see what you mean with cocytus but I can also see what he was originally trying to do (before it got out of hand with TheCars). I think the drug seeking angle is just as logical as anything else. The reason I think that is because there is absolutely no shred of evidence in this case. She simply disappeared without a trace. Most of that is due to to the heavy rain that probably washed away any DNA or clothing. Could she have been abducted while trying to score drugs? Yes. Is there evidence to prove this? No.

This theory had crossed my mind originally but I did not want to say anything due to tarnishing PJR's reputation or memory of her by her family.

Having said all of that, I doubt she was buying drugs or looking for drugs.

But thats not what you're doing. All you've done is stated that her actions seem bizarre to you, accused the woman of being a negligent mother and drug addict with no actual evidence of such, because you think what she did was odd. You continualy use quotation marks to imply sinister motives to her "vacation" and openly accused the police department of covering up the mistakes you are positive the patrolling officer made.

Look at all the potential aspects of a crime but drug addiction has never been an aspect of this crime. There's no public evidence to support she had a drug problem. Why is that? I would assume its because that was looked into immediately by LE and there was nowhere to go with it. However because you think its not normal to do what Pamela June Ray did leading up to her kidnapping you make the wild assertion that its evidence of a drug addict's behavior. Here's a bit of why I think you're so wrong on this:



Thats just simply not true. Like not treu at all. TRY looking for drugs that early in the morning. Have you ever been drug shopping at 5 am? How do you know its "VERY common"?. You go over to a drug dealer's house at 5 in the morning trying to cop and he'll call the cops on you himself. Your whole drug addled search for drugs theory is unrealistic. A drug addict doesn't strike out with their children on a trip just figuring to find some drugs in a seedy part of town at 5 am...just hoping and figuring she'll find someone she can walk up to and say "Excuse me buddy, got any drugs I may buy?" . Drug addicts don't take trips without knowing they have stuff with them. They would have their drugs with them before they left, scored in their hometown by their regular dealer.

I think the drug addled, drug seeking behavior theory is hogwash and its not just because I think you're insulting the family or the woman's memory. I'm sure the family has heard every theory under the sun and what with the fraud charges they're used to whispers and gossip and "theories". I only typed that above because I think you've made some wildly innacurate statements and are pulling things out of nowhere. It wouldn't be so bad but you then accuse others of not understanding what you type just because what you're saying makes no logical sense, it has absolutely ZERO tangible evidence to back it up, and well frankly your condescending tone and little insulting shots annoy me.

Comments like this one:



...are frustrating. What evidence do you have of malfeasance by LE? What evidence do you have that the reporting officer needed to be covered for? How would you go about getting such evidence?

Simply spouting off wild ideas with no evidence doesn't make you an investigator or mean you're doing even one thing to help solve the mystery of this woman's disappearance. I'm with TheCars1986, there's as much evidence of alien abduction as there is of the drug angle you've decided must be discussed lest we be accused of not being serious.

Well said. I've never thought the drug angle was farfetched, it's just there's absolutely no evidence to support this. After the fourth post or so, his condescending posts started to get on my nerves hence my "droll" response.

In response to Hambone, it's not trashing someone's personality if you are purely speculating as to what she was doing. It's just I don't see any signs that point to that. BTW Hambone, do we know where Oba Chandler was around the time PJR disappeared?

But thats not what you're doing. All you've done is stated that her actions seem bizarre to you, accused the woman of being a negligent mother and drug addict with no actual evidence of such, because you think what she did was odd. You continualy use quotation marks to imply sinister motives to her "vacation" and openly accused the police department of covering up the mistakes you are positive the patrolling officer made.

Look at all the potential aspects of a crime but drug addiction has never been an aspect of this crime. There's no public evidence to support she had a drug problem. Why is that? I would assume its because that was looked into immediately by LE and there was nowhere to go with it. However because you think its not normal to do what Pamela June Ray did leading up to her kidnapping you make the wild assertion that its evidence of a drug addict's behavior. Here's a bit of why I think you're so wrong on this:



Thats just simply not true. Like not treu at all. TRY looking for drugs that early in the morning. Have you ever been drug shopping at 5 am? How do you know its "VERY common"?. You go over to a drug dealer's house at 5 in the morning trying to cop and he'll call the cops on you himself. Your whole drug addled search for drugs theory is unrealistic. A drug addict doesn't strike out with their children on a trip just figuring to find some drugs in a seedy part of town at 5 am...just hoping and figuring she'll find someone she can walk up to and say "Excuse me buddy, got any drugs I may buy?" . Drug addicts don't take trips without knowing they have stuff with them. They would have their drugs with them before they left, scored in their hometown by their regular dealer.

I think the drug addled, drug seeking behavior theory is hogwash and its not just because I think you're insulting the family or the woman's memory. I'm sure the family has heard every theory under the sun and what with the fraud charges they're used to whispers and gossip and "theories". I only typed that above because I think you've made some wildly innacurate statements and are pulling things out of nowhere. It wouldn't be so bad but you then accuse others of not understanding what you type just because what you're saying makes no logical sense, it has absolutely ZERO tangible evidence to back it up, and well frankly your condescending tone and little insulting shots annoy me.

Comments like this one:



...are frustrating. What evidence do you have of malfeasance by LE? What evidence do you have that the reporting officer needed to be covered for? How would you go about getting such evidence?

Simply spouting off wild ideas with no evidence doesn't make you an investigator or mean you're doing even one thing to help solve the mystery of this woman's disappearance. I'm with TheCars1986, there's as much evidence of alien abduction as there is of the drug angle you've decided must be discussed lest we be accused of not being serious.

1) I don't know what type of mother Ms. Ray was/is. I do know that even in the early 1990s, it was a very poor idea to travel at night alone with children. I also know that it would have been prudent of her to have had a motel room well in advance of her arrival.

I do know that there are multiple hotels/motels in the Panama City Beach area. Some are more expensive than the others, but most people needing a room at 4 to 5 AM in the morning, aren't going to be that choosy. Especially with young children.

I do think, that it is very bizarre behavior (if it occurred) to wander on foot between several motels early in the morning before day when those motels would be visibly closed or be displaying "No Vacancy" signs.An unimpaired adult more likely than not, would have waited in the vehicle until daylight or until someone came along and opened the office.or perhaps traveled to the truck stop or all-night restaurant and waited there.

if Ms. Ray was using drugs ( and there is no evidence that this was the case) it could explain her bad judgment and the poor decision-making skills exhibited in this case. Again since I don't know her and sadly,probably never will never will, there probably never will be an answer to this.

2) I actually wouldn't go out and shop for drugs at five o'clock in the morning. When I used to get high, I knew exactly where to go. But that was a long time ago and I was never an addict.

3) And I don't know that there was any law enforcement malfeasance in this. I do know that in a town the size of Panama City Beach given the limited number of murders that occur there in a year ( and considering that most of those are either friends or family related) that this murder should have been solved much sooner than it has been.
it's not as if the Panama City Beach Police Department has the dozens or hundreds of murders of a larger city nor is it been claimed that one or more serial murderers were operating in the area (Panama City Beach Florida area at that time).

4)When or if you try to investigate something, you leave your personal discomfort out of the equation. You seem to be personally discomforted by the fact that this adult woman may have been using drugs (or alcohol) and may have disappeared due to the diminished capacity and inebriated or intoxicated state would create. How would your personal discomfort assist in solve this case?

I don't know the quality of the Panama City Beach Police Department. I don't know if they require their officers to be professionally trained in the POST program; I don't know if they even required their officers to be high school graduates.
I do know that if they were somehow overwhelmed by this case, calling it an outside agency might've provided better results than have seem to occurred here.

Frankly, I don't see criticizing the police as being a bad thing. If any level of effort is seen to be the acceptable from the police, then you really aren't making an effort to solve the problems of criminal activity in your area, are you?

All whole series of events had to occur and had to not have occurred, that resulted in Ms. Ray's disappearance. By not questioning every aspect of their disappearance including asking questions that are uncomfortable, seem to be mean-spirited or unpleasant to consider, then people are really doing a disservice to to Ms. Ray and to her family, aren't they?

In response to Hambone, it's not trashing someone's personality if you are purely speculating as to what she was doing. It's just I don't see any signs that point to that. BTW Hambone, do we know where Oba Chandler was around the time PJR disappeared?

No I agree. I don't think you were trashing anyone's character or personality. I was saying that I didn't bring up the drug angle when it first crossed my mind because I didn't want to offend the family or anyone else.

As for Oba Chandler. No we do not know his whereabouts but he was a handyman type and tended to travel alot for "business". He could have been anywhere at that time and seeing as how Panama City Beach is in his home state, it wouldn't surprise me if it was him. Some have even likened him to the Blind River killings although that does not seem like his MO.

1) I don't know what type of mother Ms. Ray was/is. I do know that even in the early 1990s, it was a very poor idea to travel at night alone with children. I also know that it would have been prudent of her to have had a motel room well in advance of her arrival.

I do know that there are multiple hotels/motels in the Panama City Beach area. Some are more expensive than the others, but most people needing a room at 4 to 5 AM in the morning, aren't going to be that choosy. Especially with young children.

1) Actually I could see why someone would want to leave that late at night with two young children (who most likely would be fussing and fighting several times along the way, all siblings do it). The kids would probably sleep almost the whole way giving Pamela a nice, quiet ride.

You are right about someone not being choosy at 4 or 5 in the morning. She had been driving all night and I'm sure she was tired as hell, so no doubt about it Pamela wouldn't have been picky in her choice for a motel. So even if the Wilhite was a seedy high volume drug area (which there is no apparent evidence to indicate this) then that would explain why Pamela would be content with the Wilhite.

2) I actually wouldn't go out and shop for drugs at five o'clock in the morning. When I used to get high, I knew exactly where to go. But that was a long time ago and I was never an addict.

So what makes you so sure in previous posts that this is exactly what Ray was doing?


3) And I don't know that there was any law enforcement malfeasance in this. I do know that in a town the size of Panama City Beach given the limited number of murders that occur there in a year ( and considering that most of those are either friends or family related) that this murder should have been solved much sooner than it has been.
it's not as if the Panama City Beach Police Department has the dozens or hundreds of murders of a larger city nor is it been claimed that one or more serial murderers were operating in the area (Panama City Beach Florida area at that time).

The same argument could be made that because the PCBPD investigates less murders per year, that this one kind of threw them off and since in all likelihood she was abducted by someone she did not know that makes it that much harder to solve.


4)When or if you try to investigate something, you leave your personal discomfort out of the equation. You seem to be personally discomforted by the fact that this adult woman may have been using drugs (or alcohol) and may have disappeared due to the diminished capacity and inebriated or intoxicated state would create. How would your personal discomfort assist in solve this case?

Nobody seems to have "personal discomfort" on here as far as I can tell. Everyone has an opinion, and obviously we're all fans of UM so we're going to come here and play "armchair detective" and discuss the cases. Just because someone disagrees with you does not predicatethe fact that they're personally bothered because they don't want to accept someone elses opinion. It's called disagreeing!

As for Oba Chandler. No we do not know his whereabouts but he was a handyman type and tended to travel alot for "business". He could have been anywhere at that time and seeing as how Panama City Beach is in his home state, it wouldn't surprise me if it was him.

Hambone, I really think you're on to something with this Oba Chandler theory. The guy was from Florida and the Pamela June Ray case fits his MO almost to a tee. Wish there was a way to dig deeper into his background and whereabouts to see if there was a way to establish that he was either in or around the area of PCB at the time of Pamela's disappearance.

Oba was arrested for the death of the woman and her daughters in Tampa Bay, in Sept of 92- just a month after Pamela dissappeared.

I read a book about the murders years ago. Sure wish I still had it as it might shed some light as to where he was in Aug. At the time she went missing, Chandler was living near Daytona Beach- a good 7 hour drive from PCB.

Oba was arrested for the death of the woman and her daughters in Tampa Bay, in Sept of 92- just a month after Pamela dissappeared.

I read a book about the murders years ago. Sure wish I still had it as it might shed some light as to where he was in Aug. At the time she went missing, Chandler was living near Daytona Beach- a good 7 hour drive from PCB.

Chandler doesn't match the description of the man last seen w/ Ms. Ray. And there's no record of him being "active" in the PCB area.

Chandler doesn't match the description of the man last seen w/ Ms. Ray. And there's no record of him being "active" in the PCB area.

I'm not convinced it was Chandler-just open to the possibilty if it becomes known where he was on that day.

I still believe it was the scenario I stated in an above post.

Also, it doesn't fit Chandler's MO.
He liked to use his boat, usually at sunset, to commit his crimes.
Look at the rape he was convicted of--It was the same story as the Rodgers irls murders.
In fact, had the girl he raped brought along her friend, he probably would have killed her too. The only reason he spared her life was because he knew her friend met him and would recognize him if she went missing.

But in both cases, his boat was involved, luring them out to a ''sunset cruise.''

As far as we know, there was no boat involved, and only a minimal amount of luring involved. This seems like a more typical "sudden grab" scenario--Like what befell Angela Hammond; Whereas Oba was patient and could lay his trap for these women days ahead of time.

I read a book about the murders years ago. Sure wish I still had it as it might shed some light as to where he was in Aug.

You may be referring to "Death Cruise" by Don Davis. Very good book and very insightful. It also has pictures from an undeveloped camera the girls had in their hotel room. Very eerie.

You may be referring to "Death Cruise" by Don Davis. Very good book and very insightful. It also has pictures from an undeveloped camera the girls had in their hotel room. Very eerie.

Especially that last photo one of the girls took, of the water just at the beginning of that final, fateful sunset.
May Oba Chandler rot, and may a special place in Hell be waiting just for him.

Especially that last photo one of the girls took, of the water just at the beginning of that final, fateful sunset.
May Oba Chandler rot, and may a special place in Hell be waiting just for him.

I wrote a research paper on this case and Oba Chandler in general for a class I took in college and for that paper, I contacted a journalist at the St. Petersburg Times who covered this case. He told me that Oba is still alive and on death row and with the current time-line that Florida is executing inmates, Oba may end up dying in prison rather than by lethal injection.

Chandler doesn't match the description of the man last seen w/ Ms. Ray. And there's no record of him being "active" in the PCB area.


Mastermind, is that you? Sorry if its not, but your writing is just like (aside from the lack of spelling errors) my old main man Mastermind.

Mastermind, is that you? Sorry if its not, but your writing is just like (aside from the lack of spelling errors) my old main man Mastermind.

Sorry.
Not Mastermind.

I'd just like to touch on a few things that have been mentioned in this thread. I'm from PCB and these are the comments that stood out to me.

1. This location was by no means a "seedy area" most motels along the strip back then were older but they were nice. It's not a place where you see prostitutes, drug dealers etc walking around.

2. Someone mentioned maybe Pamela walked to the motel behind Whilhite, the only thing behind that motel or the countless others on that side of Front beach road is miles and miles of white sandy beaches and the gulf of mexico.

3. I don't think it's weird that she traveled at night with her children. When my kids were little, I preferred traveling at night so they could sleep. I do. however, find it odd that she would lock up the car and go walking around and talking to strangers etc.

4. Someone mentioned that it was odd that there weren't many cars visible in the reenactment. I just wanted to point out that that video was shot during the off season.

5. I have a hard time believing there were no pay phones in this area during that time. This is area where hundreds of thousands college kid come for spring break so I just don't believe there were no pay phones when during a time when there were no cell phones. But if that were the case, then she should have got in her car and drove to a store. This was PCB in the middle of August, the place wasn't shut down.

That's all I can think of for now, but this case never made sense to me. Also there was another case very similar to this one that happened on PCB just a few years ago. I can't think of her name right now, but she was older and I think her name may have also been Pam. She disappeared from a hotel on Thomas Drive.

PS... all of these small motels have since been replaced with sky rise condos... Trust me, it was much prettier and nicer with the old mom and pop places you called seedy.

I'd just like to touch on a few things that have been mentioned in this thread. I'm from PCB and these are the comments that stood out to me.

1. This location was by no means a "seedy area" most motels along the strip back then were older but they were nice. It's not a place where you see prostitutes, drug dealers etc walking around.

2. Someone mentioned maybe Pamela walked to the motel behind Whilhite, the only thing behind that motel or the countless others on that side of Front beach road is miles and miles of white sandy beaches and the gulf of mexico.

3. I don't think it's weird that she traveled at night with her children. When my kids were little, I preferred traveling at night so they could sleep. I do. however, find it odd that she would lock up the car and go walking around and talking to strangers etc.

4. Someone mentioned that it was odd that there weren't many cars visible in the reenactment. I just wanted to point out that that video was shot during the off season.

5. I have a hard time believing there were no pay phones in this area during that time. This is area where hundreds of thousands college kid come for spring break so I just don't believe there were no pay phones when during a time when there were no cell phones. But if that were the case, then she should have got in her car and drove to a store. This was PCB in the middle of August, the place wasn't shut down.

That's all I can think of for now, but this case never made sense to me. Also there was another case very similar to this one that happened on PCB just a few years ago. I can't think of her name right now, but she was older and I think her name may have also been Pam. She disappeared from a hotel on Thomas Drive.

PS... all of these small motels have since been replaced with sky rise condos... Trust me, it was much prettier and nicer with the old mom and pop places you called seedy.

Good to hear from somebody in PCB. Several things though:

1) Clearly the Wilhite was nowhere near the upper echelons of vacation motels as it didn't have phones in the rooms (something that even Motel 6 had at the time) and people staying there didn't think too much of hearing screams at 5 am.

2) Traveling at night,while easier for some, is usually poor idea in my experience. The chances of hitting something in the road,experiencing vehicle problems and not finding any place to take your car, and falling asleep are just too great for it to be practical, IMHO.

The part that I found odd was that Ms. Ray would drive to a busy vacation area w/o having a confirmed room reservation or apparently having any backup plan. While doing this alone might be reasonable, doing this w/ young children was a very questionable decision.

3) One thing that I never understood is that nobody was outside having a smoke at that time. While this was in the days of smoking in all rooms of a motel, people who couldn't sleep often went outside to smoke so as not to disturb others in the room.

I'm all surprised that someone wasn't outside burning one and heard or saw something that would help this case.

4) The payphone part is confusing. While I probably wouldn't stay in a motel in the US (or Canada) w/o a phone, I would definitely not stay in one that didn't at least have a payphone on the property.

Never mind what happened to Ms. Ray; what if you had a medical emergency? This is why I find so hard to believe that not one of the Wilhite's guests used the payphone to contact the police after they heard the screams. If nothing else , screaming might mean something that would a source of danger to the listener.

A number of things about this case don't make sense and it would have been nice if teh police had brought their A-game
in on this one. IMHO, this probably could have been solved shortly after it occurred had there been intense pressure put upon PCB's police department.

1. This location was by no means a "seedy area" most motels along the strip back then were older but they were nice. It's not a place where you see prostitutes, drug dealers etc walking around.

2. Someone mentioned maybe Pamela walked to the motel behind Whilhite, the only thing behind that motel or the countless others on that side of Front beach road is miles and miles of white sandy beaches and the gulf of mexico.

3. I don't think it's weird that she traveled at night with her children. When my kids were little, I preferred traveling at night so they could sleep. I do. however, find it odd that she would lock up the car and go walking around and talking to strangers etc.



That's all I can think of for now, but this case never made sense to me. Also there was another case very similar to this one that happened on PCB just a few years ago. I can't think of her name right now, but she was older and I think her name may have also been Pam. She disappeared from a hotel on Thomas Drive.

PS... all of these small motels have since been replaced with sky rise condos... Trust me, it was much prettier and nicer with the old mom and pop places you called seedy.



Thank you for repeating some of the same points that I have been trying to get across here.

I think I remember the case you are referring to. Was this an older lady, probably in her 50s? There were flyers about her disappearance posted here in my town. it made me think of the Ray case when I saw them.

Did the segment specifically say that there were no phones in the rooms or was it a poster on this board? I don't remember it being on the segment.

Also, my sister in law had to take a self defense class that her company was offering to pay for for anyone who wanted to attend. During the class, the police officer who was teaching it said if you're ever in trouble/being attacked and in a public place, do not yell "HELP!!" because very few people will actually help you. They said to instead scream "FIRE!!!" as loud as you can as people will respond to that much quicker. If PJR was screaming while being abducted and yelling for help, its very possible that people heard it but just ignored it because they did not want to be involved.

Good to hear from somebody in PCB. Several things though:

1) Clearly the Wilhite was nowhere near the upper echelons of vacation motels as it didn't have phones in the rooms (something that even Motel 6 had at the time) and people staying there didn't think too much of hearing screams at 5 am.

2) Traveling at night,while easier for some, is usually poor idea in my experience. The chances of hitting something in the road,experiencing vehicle problems and not finding any place to take your car, and falling asleep are just too great for it to be practical, IMHO.

The part that I found odd was that Ms. Ray would drive to a busy vacation area w/o having a confirmed room reservation or apparently having any backup plan. While doing this alone might be reasonable, doing this w/ young children was a very questionable decision.

3) One thing that I never understood is that nobody was outside having a smoke at that time. While this was in the days of smoking in all rooms of a motel, people who couldn't sleep often went outside to smoke so as not to disturb others in the room.

I'm all surprised that someone wasn't outside burning one and heard or saw something that would help this case.

4) The payphone part is confusing. While I probably wouldn't stay in a motel in the US (or Canada) w/o a phone, I would definitely not stay in one that didn't at least have a payphone on the property.

Never mind what happened to Ms. Ray; what if you had a medical emergency? This is why I find so hard to believe that not one of the Wilhite's guests used the payphone to contact the police after they heard the screams. If nothing else , screaming might mean something that would a source of danger to the listener.

A number of things about this case don't make sense and it would have been nice if teh police had brought their A-game
in on this one. IMHO, this probably could have been solved shortly after it occurred had there been intense pressure put upon PCB's police department.

I think we all agree that the police might not have put their best foot forward on this case.

But, as Pamela's daughter posted, there is a suspect, but not enough evidence to prosecute. In many cases there will always be information that cannot for various reasons be made public, I think that is probably the case here.

Cocytus, I am sorry for sounding critical of you, but you keep saying the same things. You are beating a dead horse(IMHO) trying to read something into this case that just isn't there. Brandy has confirmed that this was not a seedy area. That is what I have also been saying. PJR did what many of us have done- she preferred traveling at night and didn't be as cautious as she should have been. She paid with her life. I have done the similar things when I was younger, though not at the beach. We just seem to take more risks when we are young. With age comes wisdom- and more caution.

I think you need to move past the notion that PJR had motives for being where she was at other than being on vacation with her kids. I really think it was unfortunately a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

As far as phones and smoking go- people were not as anti-smoking then. It is very doubtful anyone would be outside their room at that time just to smoke. Most of these hotels didn't even have no smoking rooms then, there was no need to step out to smoke.

pay phones were located free standing all up and down the strip at close intervals at this time. Also, people were not tied to the phone then like they are now. It was a different time then. No phone in the room was not probably a concern of hers. I am pretty sure that at minimum there was a payphone outside the office. As there was in most of these places.

I'm also not convinced there were no phones in the rooms.. I guess it's possible, but very doubtful. As for no one responding to her screams....her kids didn't even hear them. I wouldn't question the integrity of the motel or the area but the person person who claims to to have heard her and did nothing!

I think we all agree that the police might not have put their best foot forward on this case.

But, as Pamela's daughter posted, there is a suspect, but not enough evidence to prosecute. In many cases there will always be information that cannot for various reasons be made public, I think that is probably the case here.

Cocytus, I am sorry for sounding critical of you, but you keep saying the same things. You are beating a dead horse(IMHO) trying to read something into this case that just isn't there. Brandy has confirmed that this was not a seedy area. That is what I have also been saying. PJR did what many of us have done- she preferred traveling at night and didn't be as cautious as she should have been. She paid with her life. I have done the similar things when I was younger, though not at the beach. We just seem to take more risks when we are young. With age comes wisdom- and more caution.

I think you need to move past the notion that PJR had motives for being where she was at other than being on vacation with her kids. I really think it was unfortunately a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

As far as phones and smoking go- people were not as anti-smoking then. It is very doubtful anyone would be outside their room at that time just to smoke. Most of these hotels didn't even have no smoking rooms then, there was no need to step out to smoke.

pay phones were located free standing all up and down the strip at close intervals at this time. Also, people were not tied to the phone then like they are now. It was a different time then. No phone in the room was not probably a concern of hers. I am pretty sure that at minimum there was a payphone outside the office. As there was in most of these places.

I'm not trying to "read things into this." I have just looked at this case from several different angles and have seen more than a few things that didn't make sense to me.

Does that mean that I'm right? No, it doesn't. However this case been "cold" for almost twenty years, which is frankly ridiculous as there seem to have been a number of leads.
It's past time that a new look is taken at the available evidence and that may include new theories about the crime and the victim.

As to the payphones and smoking - I'm 44, so I remember having to use a payphone when I didn't have a cell phone. It was often an unpleasant experience, but I was glad to have one available. I'm just finding it difficult to believe that people who heard screams (according to them) at 5 am would not be concerned that those screams could mean something that could cause them harm. Which, coupled w/ the fact that no one used a payphone to call the police, is another sign of the low quality of the area that the Wilhite was in.


And as I stated, not having a phone in the rooms is a sign of a low-end establishment, as both Motel 6 and Knight's Inn (two low budget motel brands) both had phones in their motel rooms in the mid 80's. People not being as attached to phones as today doesn't really cut it: whether or not you are "attached" to a phone doesn't really matter if you have a medical emergency.

As far as smoking, I believe I did note that people could smoke in the rooms at that time, but people often went outside to smoke as to not disturb the people that were in the room w/ them sleeping. Well...some had enough respect for others to do that; I can't speak to the jerks that didn't.


I don't know why Ms. Ray decided to make the trip to PCB w/ her children alone. I don't know why she didn't make reservations in advance nor do I know why she didn't simply park her vehicle at a truck stop or all night restaurant and wait until morning when the hotels would be open. The only people that would know most of those things are Ms. Ray and her family, and the family didn't seem to be too forthcoming during the segment.

The bottom line is (I like writing that) that if you have a mystery you have failed to solve after extended period using traditional methods you really only have two choices: Use new methods or completely rethink the mystery. If that means looking deeper into the background of the victim and finding unpleasant things that may exist, then that's part of life.

A lot people seem to have pre-conceived notions of how the world works and easily dismiss narratives that may paint pictures of crimes, criminals and victims that don't comfortably fit into those notions. Honestly, if people can't look at crimes w/o a heavy dose of skepticism, a degree impartiality and thorough understanding of the dark sides of human nature, they probably shouldn't try to solve mysteries as they'll simply waste time and effort.

And as I stated, not having a phone in the rooms is a sign of a low-end establishment, as both Motel 6 and Knight's Inn (two low budget motel brands) both had phones in their motel rooms in the mid 80's. People not being as attached to phones as today doesn't really cut it: whether or not you are "attached" to a phone doesn't really matter if you have a medical emergency.


Where are you getting this from? I only ask because it is not mentioned int he segment that there were no phones in the rooms.

Where are you getting this from? I only ask because it is not mentioned int he segment that there were no phones in the rooms.

Yes, it is. Watch the segment again and listen at the point where they first show the exterior of the Wilhite. Stack mentions the screaming at 5am and the fact that there were no phones in the motel.

I think the big reason why this case hasn't been solved yet is because Pamela's body has yet to be found. The segment made a mention of a guy who sexually assaulted another woman very close to the area that Pamela was last seen who also happened to fit the description the police officer gave of the man last seen with Pamela. I honestly think that's the guy that ws responsible.

I just looked at the video and RS did indeed say there were no phones in the rooms. He did NOT however say there was not a phone in the office(which is a moot point as it was closed) nor did he say there was no payphone at the motel. In fact if you look at the video at "that site" at approx 2:05 into it as the officer is driving by, I see what I think is a pay phone. It isn't good quality video, but it looks to me like a pay phone of that era in front of the office, between the mailbox and the office.

Cocytus, you again refer to this being in a bad area-

"And as I stated, not having a phone in the rooms is a sign of a low-end establishment"

That is your opinion, not a fact.

I can assure you it was not. As brandy also said- this was just an older section of the strip, lot's of mom & pop hotels not yet torn down for high rises. It was not a bad area then, nor is it now. I would think you should stop being so sure of this as you have never been there as some of us have many times. In fact, I have stayed at the hotels on either side of the Wilhite at different times. Once on spring break, in the late 70s, and once with my husband on just a weekend trip in the 90s. probably not long before they were all razed for condos. So I do know what I am talking about when I say this was not a low end, run down, drug infested area.

I just looked at the video and RS did indeed say there were no phones in the rooms. He did NOT however say there was not a phone in the office(which is a moot point as it was closed) nor did he say there was no payphone at the motel. In fact if you look at the video at "that site" at approx 2:05 into it as the officer is driving by, I see what I think is a pay phone. It isn't good quality video, but it looks to me like a pay phone of that era in front of the office, between the mailbox and the office.

Cocytus, you again refer to this being in a bad area-

"And as I stated, not having a phone in the rooms is a sign of a low-end establishment"

That is your opinion, not a fact.

I can assure you it was not. As brandy also said- this was just an older section of the strip, lot's of mom & pop hotels not yet torn down for high rises. It was not a bad area then, nor is it now. I would think you should stop being so sure of this as you have never been there as some of us have many times. In fact, I have stayed at the hotels on either side of the Wilhite at different times. Once on spring break, in the late 70s, and once with my husband on just a weekend trip in the 90s. probably not long before they were all razed for condos. So I do know what I am talking about when I say this was not a low end, run down, drug infested area.

I think the fact that it was an older motel (a leftover from the 50's) is why there were no phones in the rooms. I've actually stayed in a motel in New Mexico were there were no phones, TV, or air conditioning in the rooms and this was in 2005.

I agree. it's my thought( I don't know for sure) that the owners, knowing that the motel would probably be torn down in the near future for condos did not want to invest money in the property to put phones in the rooms.

bump

Just read through this entire thread.

She was abducted for no other reason than she just so happened to be there, IMO--like many women unfortunately are. There is nothing factual to suggest otherwise.

What are known as facts:

1. A number of witnesses, including two police officers, saw Pamela around 0530.

2. Pamela was followed by a white male from the lobby to the pool area, who had been seen earlier in the vicinity.

3. Witnesses reported a woman's screams for help around the same time.


What is speculation and rooted almost entirely in opinion:

1. The area the hotel was located in PCB was/is "seedy".

2. Pamela was a drug addict. (Still lost on that one. :confused:)

3. Pamela lacked foresight as a mother (which, I suppose, is connected to the first point).


^ Ultimately, nearly all of those things are irrelevant to what actually happened to Pamela anyway. If there was any evidence of the second point being rooted in what's known for a fact, I could accept it, and it WOULD be helpful in the investigation. But given what's known, there is nothing factual to strongly support or suggest that idea.



I think she was abducted because she was available. Her departure time from Georgia, arrival time in PCB, choice of motel, decision to leave her children and belongings in the car, and choice to vacation with only her children are all sidebar detractors from which nothing definite can be gleaned, IMO.

Just read through this entire thread.

She was abducted for no other reason than she just so happened to be there, IMO--like many women unfortunately are. There is nothing factual to suggest otherwise.

What are known as facts:

1. A number of witnesses, including two police officers, saw Pamela around 0530.

2. Pamela was followed by a white male from the lobby to the pool area, who had been seen earlier in the vicinity.

3. Witnesses reported a woman's screams for help around the same time.


What is speculation and rooted almost entirely in opinion:

1. The area the hotel was located in PCB was/is "seedy".

2. Pamela was a drug addict. (Still lost on that one. :confused:)

3. Pamela lacked foresight as a mother (which, I suppose, is connected to the first point).


^ Ultimately, nearly all of those things are irrelevant to what actually happened to Pamela anyway. If there was any evidence of the second point being rooted in what's known for a fact, I could accept it, and it WOULD be helpful in the investigation. But given what's known, there is nothing factual to strongly support or suggest that idea.



I think she was abducted because she was available. Her departure time from Georgia, arrival time in PCB, choice of motel, decision to leave her children and belongings in the car, and choice to vacation with only her children are all sidebar detractors from which nothing definite can be gleaned, IMO.

Agreed, wrong place wrong time.

Wow, this topic has really become hot. Since I first posted some time ago (way back on the 1st page) I can't believe almost 10 pages of discussion have been generated. Truly a mystery this one.

She obviously saw the police car driving by the motel. If she was concerned about being locked out of the motel, why didn't she simply flag down the officer and ask him for assistance? While I know that the police aren't tour guides and that they are busy, it would have been a far more prudent move than chatting w/ a total stranger in parking lot at 5am.

Would have to agree, although police may be busy - this was 1992 - things weren't so fast paced and police were friendlier back then.

I was thinking about this...
I wonder if there were any similar cases in the Florida area a year before/after her disappearance? Could be the work of either a one time rapist/murderer, or a serial killer. I wonder if police ever looked into Oba Chandler's whereabouts in August 1992.

I was thinking about this...
I wonder if there were any similar cases in the Florida area a year before/after her disappearance? Could be the work of either a one time rapist/murderer, or a serial killer. I wonder if police ever looked into Oba Chandler's whereabouts in August 1992.

The UM segment said another woman was abducted, raped, and killed, in the same area shortly after or before (can't remember right now) Pamela disappeared. They also said there was a suspect in that case in which the man fit the general description of the same man seen lurking around the motel the same day Pamela went missing.

The UM segment said another woman was abducted, raped, and killed, in the same area shortly after or before (can't remember right now) Pamela disappeared. They also said there was a suspect in that case in which the man fit the general description of the same man seen lurking around the motel the same day Pamela went missing.

I don't recall that on the segment.
Why wasn't a description of the suspect given?

I don't recall that on the segment.
Why wasn't a description of the suspect given?

My apologies, this wasn't included on the UM broadcast, but the information about the possible suspect can be found on Pamela's profile on the Charley Project website here:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/ray_pamela.html

I was thinking about this...
I wonder if there were any similar cases in the Florida area a year before/after her disappearance? Could be the work of either a one time rapist/murderer, or a serial killer. I wonder if police ever looked into Oba Chandler's whereabouts in August 1992.

Good question. Oba Chandler is definitely a serial killer. There isn't a doubt in my mind that he has raped and killed more women then we know about.

Good question. Oba Chandler is definitely a serial killer. There isn't a doubt in my mind that he has raped and killed more women then we know about.

The only reason his rape victim (he raped her a few months before he killed the mother and daughter) lived is because her friend (who had met him) felt wary about going on the boat with him. He knew if he killed the girl, and the friend remembered him, he'd be in trouble. The only reason that pair survived was because one of them didn't want to go on the boat.

I'd imagine Oba's victims to be up in the dozens. I just get that feeling. Especially in the more trusting 70s/80s--a rather good looking, seemingly kind man helping out and acting as a tour guide to lost/vulnerable women? He definitely killed quite a few women. He needs to be looked more into.

was thinking about this...
I wonder if there were any similar cases in the Florida area a year before/after her disappearance? Could be the work of either a one time rapist/murderer, or a serial killer. I wonder if police ever looked into Oba Chandler's whereabouts in August 1992.

Read more: http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=258312&page=9#ixzz1KwU9Pq6u

But wasn't he more the type of guy that liked to cat and mouse the women he killed? Look at all the trouble he went to to get the girls and the mother onto his boat. I think he liked to draw it out, savour it, and then to pounce. He could have found easier prey if he was just out to kill.

I am reading a book written in the 90's titled "Reward" that profiles several missing persons cases including Pamela June Ray. It has a little more info about her possible abductor so I thought I would just type everything they wrote about her disappearance:


"Right before midnight on Tuesday, August 11 ,1992, a disreputable-looking man parked himself on one of the many folding chairs outside Wilhite's Motel in Panama City, Florida. It's not unusual for tourists to watch the sights along the Redneck Riviera, as this area is sometimes called. But this man was watching with rapt interest the people who passed by on this "Miracle Strip".

After a while the police became interested in watching him. They knew this man, and knew that sinister things had happened to more than one woman when he was around. There were whispers of a girl who had disappeared after being seen with him and who was later found murdered.

There was also the story about a local girl who had been talking on a pay phone when he sneaked over and hit her on the head with a hammer. Supposedly he then spirited her off into the woods, and when she regained consciousness he was assaulting her. Somehow she talked him into letting her go. The police arrested him, but the young woman had made a couple of minor mistakes when she first described him and the police had to release him.

Thats why the Panama City police weren't happy to see him in their area again. They told him to get up and move on, which he did. At least for a while. No one knows for certain whether he came back early the next morning, and whether what then happened at the motel had anything to do with him.

That same evening, even before the man in question sat down outside Wilhite's, a thirty-six-year old woman named Pamela June Ray was getting ready to leave Villa Rica, Georgia, with her children for a few days' vacation. She was planning to drive overnight to Panama City and stay at a motel.

Pamela Ray had almost canceled the trip after learning her husband, Michael, wasn't going to be able to get time off for a vacation until after September. But she was a devoted mother, and she wanted her two children to spend some time at the beach before they had to return to school. At the last minute she decided to go with her thirty-two-year-old sister Rhonda, but since Rhonda couldn't leave until Thursday, Pam decided to make the nighttime drive with the children so they could have that extra day at the beach.

Pam's father, Ralph Bennett, a fifty-nine-year-old truck driver, says, "Pam called a motel and said she was fixing to be on the way, and they said they had rooms. When Pam got there around five o'clock in the morning, she temporarily locked her two children in her '92 blue Sundance so they'd be safe while she went to make sure she had her room."

As she walked toward Wilhite's Motel, a clerk at White's the motel next door, saw the 128-pound, five foot three inch tall woman with long brown hair and dark brown eyes, wearing a red tank top, black shorts, and flip-flops. According to her father, Pam was also wearing a diamond necklace, a diamond earring, a diamond wedding ring, diamond watch and three-tier diamond ring. The clerk then noticed a man with Pam, and a few minutes later some of the guests at the two motels heard screaming.

"Unsolved Mysteries" the tv series that has successfully ferreted out of a number of heinous criminals, covered this case, and while they didn't mention the suspicious man sitting outside Wilhite's, they did uncover another witness to this crime. Their re-creation included a police officer who said he passed the motel around five o'clock that morning and saw Pam standing next to her vehicle talking to a white male.

The officer described the man as being of medium build, with a gray and white striped shirt, sandy hair and the look of a beach bum. The policeman noticed that the man turned and walked back into the parking lot area of Wilhite's; he saw Pam lock the door with a set of keys in her hand. Then she turned and followed the man into the parking lot.

Five minutes after the policeman left, several guests at Wilhite's were awakened by screams for help, but since the rooms had no phones, no one reported the screams. Only at 8 am when Pamela's children were discovered locked in the car outside the motel were the authorities called. By that time the morning rain had washed away any blood, footprints, or other physical evidence that might have told them what had happened a few hours earlier to Pamela June Ray.

Pam's father feels he's getting conflicting and incomplete information from those who might know what happened that night especially concerning the man seated on the chair outside Wilhite's. "They telling so many different tales down there that nobody really knows what happened", he says. All he knows is that he wants his daughter back."

I am reading a book written in the 90's titled "Reward" that profiles several missing persons cases including Pamela June Ray. It has a little more info about her possible abductor so I thought I would just type everything they wrote about her disappearance:


"Right before midnight on Tuesday, August 11 ,1992, a disreputable-looking man parked himself on one of the many folding chairs outside Wilhite's Motel in Panama City, Florida. It's not unusual for tourists to watch the sights along the Redneck Riviera, as this area is sometimes called. But this man was watching with rapt interest the people who passed by on this "Miracle Strip".

After a while the police became interested in watching him. They knew this man, and knew that sinister things had happened to more than one woman when he was around. There were whispers of a girl who had disappeared after being seen with him and who was later found murdered.

There was also the story about a local girl who had been talking on a pay phone when he sneaked over and hit her on the head with a hammer. Supposedly he then spirited her off into the woods, and when she regained consciousness he was assaulting her. Somehow she talked him into letting her go. The police arrested him, but the young woman had made a couple of minor mistakes when she first described him and the police had to release him.

Thats why the Panama City police weren't happy to see him in their area again. They told him to get up and move on, which he did. At least for a while. No one knows for certain whether he came back early the next morning, and whether what then happened at the motel had anything to do with him.

That same evening, even before the man in question sat down outside Wilhite's, a thirty-six-year old woman named Pamela June Ray was getting ready to leave Villa Rica, Georgia, with her children for a few days' vacation. She was planning to drive overnight to Panama City and stay at a motel.

Pamela Ray had almost canceled the trip after learning her husband, Michael, wasn't going to be able to get time off for a vacation until after September. But she was a devoted mother, and she wanted her two children to spend some time at the beach before they had to return to school. At the last minute she decided to go with her thirty-two-year-old sister Rhonda, but since Rhonda couldn't leave until Thursday, Pam decided to make the nighttime drive with the children so they could have that extra day at the beach.

Pam's father, Ralph Bennett, a fifty-nine-year-old truck driver, says, "Pam called a motel and said she was fixing to be on the way, and they said they had rooms. When Pam got there around five o'clock in the morning, she temporarily locked her two children in her '92 blue Sundance so they'd be safe while she went to make sure she had her room."

As she walked toward Wilhite's Motel, a clerk at White's the motel next door, saw the 128-pound, five foot three inch tall woman with long brown hair and dark brown eyes, wearing a red tank top, black shorts, and flip-flops. According to her father, Pam was also wearing a diamond necklace, a diamond earring, a diamond wedding ring, diamond watch and three-tier diamond ring. The clerk then noticed a man with Pam, and a few minutes later some of the guests at the two motels heard screaming.

"Unsolved Mysteries" the tv series that has successfully ferreted out of a number of heinous criminals, covered this case, and while they didn't mention the suspicious man sitting outside Wilhite's, they did uncover another witness to this crime. Their re-creation included a police officer who said he passed the motel around five o'clock that morning and saw Pam standing next to her vehicle talking to a white male.

The officer described the man as being of medium build, with a gray and white striped ****e, sandy hair and the look of a beach bum. The policeman noticed that the man turned and walked back into the parking lot area of Wilhite's; he saw Pam lock the door with a set of keys in her hand. Then she turned and followed the man into the parking lot.

Five minutes after the policeman left, several guests at Wilhite's were awakened by screams for help, but since the rooms had no phones, no one reported the screams. Only at 8 am when Pamela's children were discovered locked in the car outside the motel were the authorities called. By that time the morning rain had washed away any blood, footprints, or other physical evidence that might have told them what had happened a few hours earlier to Pamela June Ray.

Pam's father feels he's getting conflicting and incomplete information from those who might know what happened that night especially concerning the man seated on the chair outside Wilhite's. "They telling so many different tales down there that nobody really knows what happened", he says. All he knows is that he wants his daughter back."

Wow, thats very interesting crystaldawn. Does the book say who this person if interest is? I wonder if this guy is still alive.

Wow, thats very interesting crystaldawn. Does the book say who this person if interest is? I wonder if this guy is still alive.

No they don't mention a name. However they did say the cops knew him. Does that mean they knew his name and where he lived or just knew him as a transient from the area? I would think his name is on file somewhere since he was initially arrested for that attack described (and then later released). You would hope they did an extensive search trying to find him after she went missing. I'm surprised the other residents didn't do more. I realize there were no phones in the rooms but you hear screams and no one apparently goes outside to try and find out what is going on? Sadly I do think that she was killed that day and am really surprised her remains haven't been found by now.

No they don't mention a name. However they did say the cops knew him. Does that mean they knew his name and where he lived or just knew him as a transient from the area? I would think his name is on file somewhere since he was initially arrested for that attack described (and then later released). You would hope they did an extensive search trying to find him after she went missing. I'm surprised the other residents didn't do more. I realize there were no phones in the rooms but you hear screams and no one apparently goes outside to try and find out what is going on? Sadly I do think that she was killed that day and am really surprised her remains haven't been found by now.

Possible that the guy had a boat and dumped her in the ocean (after all, the abduction took place right near a Beach, right?) sometime later.

Possible that the guy had a boat and dumped her in the ocean (after all, the abduction took place right near a Beach, right?) sometime later.

Hhmm, interesting that you mention that. That was Oba Chandler's MO. It's also a good theory as to why the body has never been found. We would still need to know if Oba was in or around the PCB area during this time though.

Seems to me like LE believes the same man mentioned in crystaldawn's post, the man who attacked the other woman with the hammer, is the same man responsible for the abduction of Pamela. Obviously without a body they cannot prove a murder actually happened, nor tie any suspects to the case.

Does anyone else find it odd that the Charley Project website has a "side note" involving Pamela's father's legal issues with money? They go into the whole speel about her father getting money accidentally wired to his account, to which he spent it illegally, and then goes on to say that Pamela and her husband were indicted with connections to the case. But then the very last line says, "Investigators do not believe that the financial problems were connected to Ray's disappearance." Then why even include it?!

Then why even include it?!


Charley Project seems to do that a lot, but sometimes with even spookier details, such as "she had an abusive ex-boyfriend, but LE does not believe he was involved" It just makes the site even scarier to read. But I guess since the site is run by a single person (not really an organization) the writer finds it relevant to put personal details up or mention the circumstances that the missing person had been enduring close to the time of their disappearance.

Seems to me like LE believes the same man mentioned in crystaldawn's post, the man who attacked the other woman with the hammer, is the same man responsible for the abduction of Pamela. Obviously without a body they cannot prove a murder actually happened, nor tie any suspects to the case.

Does anyone else find it odd that the Charley Project website has a "side note" involving Pamela's father's legal issues with money? They go into the whole speel about her father getting money accidentally wired to his account, to which he spent it illegally, and then goes on to say that Pamela and her husband were indicted with connections to the case. But then the very last line says, "Investigators do not believe that the financial problems were connected to Ray's disappearance." Then why even include it?!

I don't find it odd only because LE could just be saying that hoping that just in case it did lead to her disappearance, that the perpetrators may slip up or a tip may come in if someone who knows about it discovers that they are not exploring that avenue.

I don't find it odd only because LE could just be saying that hoping that just in case it did lead to her disappearance, that the perpetrators may slip up or a tip may come in if someone who knows about it discovers that they are not exploring that avenue.

I don't know it just seems that these circumstances are a bit different. It wasn't like they were involved in a money laundering scheme. Her father simply got the money by accident, and it appears like it was the bank's fault for transferring the money to his account. He just spent it. Just seems kind of odd to include that in this case. UM didn't include it, and it seems like that would add to the heir of mystery in this case if they were to include it.

As for the money being mentioned- early on there was speculation that PJR might have dissappeared on purpose due to this, but I believe it was rather quickly ruled out. Maybe this is why it was mentioned?

As far as the kidnapper having a boat and dumping her body at sea, I'm sure it could be a possibility, but, there was no nearby access to a boat from the motel. That area is all beach front with no landing/dock for a boat. The nearest places to dock a boat are several miles away.

the boat theory does bring Oba Chandler back into play as a possible suspect. Has anyone checked into his whereabouts on this day? I do think it is a pretty far out theory though because it doesn't fit his MO close enough.

I hate to say I'm kind of surprised by the number of responses saying the same thing; "Why didn't she have a hotel arranged? A key left waiting for her doesn't sound right. Why travel during the night? Blah, blah, blah." I'm not going to give details about the case that I don't have. I can tell you what I think happened to this woman, but I'm not going to go and pretend I've got all the answers. First off, a long winded explanation of why I don't think the situation she found herself in is all that odd.


1. The "no phone" issue - I remember staying in motels in the CA desert, Vegas, and TX as a kid with my family, and a couple of times there were no phones. I think about it now and say to myself "whatever, it was the early 90's". The rooms were low budget, but not dumps. We just needed a place to sleep and shower.

As an adult in 2005, in California, my husband and I needed a room to stay in for a few nights while the house we lived in was being fumigated. We needed a ferret friendly place too (yes I owned ferrets in CA). I went to a series of "mom and pop" hotels "left over from the 50's" and one in particular was nice and clean. It wasn't a dump and the area was not seedy. It was low budget, but big deal. Cheap at only $34 and change after taxes. The owner didn't care about my ferrets either. Unfortunately, there were no amenities outside of a bed, a table with two old chairs, and a bathroom. We ended up stayed with friends instead. I can understand "no phones" in the 90's, but in 2005, that's just weird. I guess my point is, I don't find it odd that the Wilhite Motel didn't have phones in the guest rooms back in '92.

2. The "key in the mailbox" oddity - I was traveling down to T Or C and had made reservations at an inn right on the river. Very nice place, with each guest room separate from the other. I phoned and said I would be in after hours, like at 12 am. The clerk stated that our room would be left unlocked, and the keys inside on the table. I get there and the room was locked. I double checked the email confirmation, and the notes I took down when I spoke to the clerk earlier. Looked under the floor mat, and all around the room. I was outside the right door, but they obviously forgot their end of the deal. My husband and I took off and went to stay in a room at a larger hotel chain, as most of the "mom and pop" inns near the river and hot springs were all booked and closed for the night.

I don't find it odd that no key was left for Pamela. The clerk probably forgot. OR - maybe someone saw him go put something inside the mailbox, and this someone went to investigate, and took it. Seeing it was a motel key, they may have figured "Cool, free room." Or maybe it was the killer himself, who decided to wait for the arrival of the unfortunate guest. Perhaps he posed as the clerk, said "I've got the key, follow me", and he had his way with her. Fanciful, I know. But not impossible.

3. The "closed lobby" issue - You may not believe me, but I have traveled up and down California's coast, where many fancy, pricey inn's are located RIGHT in front of the beach. You know what? Several of them actually do not stay open all night. It's weird - a high priced lodging establishment not staying open 24 hours. Sure, if the only places you stay at are major hotel chains then you expect SOMEONE to be in the lobby all night long. I can assure you though, the "mom and pop" places do close up at night. The Wilhite was no exception.

I could go on about how traveling through the night, (which I have personally done due to time constraints) isn't a far fetched concept. However, I feel I've said enough. I may be the only one who doesn't find no phones, missing keys, and closed lobbies strange.

I think Pamela may have arrived at the Wilhite, saw it was closed, and then went to check other places only to find out they were also closed. She returned to the Wilhite and parked there, deciding to wait until morning when the clerk arrived to ask him what happened with her keys. Maybe she went outside the car for a smoke or a breath of fresh air. Who knows. I believe she followed the man because he convinced her he could let her into her room. He may very well have posed as the clerk. After all, how was she supposed to know, with absolute certainty, that no hotel employee was not on the premises?

If she was fed up and sleep deprived, she may not have been thinking too clearly. Don't forget a psychopath can be very convincing, and very good at taking advantage of a situation.

Poor Pamela. I hope some day her family gets the answers they need to put her to rest in some way or another. :(

I am pretty shocked that people think she was looking for drugs. I think she was simply trying to find a room for her children to sleep in and feel comfortable. I think she was from a small town (correct me if I'm wrong) and maybe was a more trusting person, and unfortunately that got her into trouble in the city. She probably did run into someone very cunning and was duped by them. It's sad, because she was in all likelihood taking a chance for the comfort of her two children so they wouldn't have to sleep in a car all night. It's really too bad the area had no vacancies.

I am pretty shocked that people think she was looking for drugs. I think she was simply trying to find a room for her children to sleep in and feel comfortable. I think she was from a small town (correct me if I'm wrong) and maybe was a more trusting person, and unfortunately that got her into trouble in the city. She probably did run into someone very cunning and was duped by them. It's sad, because she was in all likelihood taking a chance for the comfort of her two children so they wouldn't have to sleep in a car all night. It's really too bad the area had no vacancies.

The only person that believes she was drug shopping was cocytus. And he was adamant about it.

I don't find it odd that no key was left for Pamela. The clerk probably forgot. OR - maybe someone saw him go put something inside the mailbox, and this someone went to investigate, and took it. Seeing it was a motel key, they may have figured "Cool, free room." Or maybe it was the killer himself, who decided to wait for the arrival of the unfortunate guest. Perhaps he posed as the clerk, said "I've got the key, follow me", and he had his way with her. Fanciful, I know. But not impossible.


Very interesting theory that the killer possibly saw the clerk put the key int he box and he went and snatched it. Could very well be.

I've always thought that the man seen chatting with Pamela was posing as a hotel employee before he abducted her. He probably coaxed her away from her car with the promise of a key to the room she had for the night.

I've always thought that the man seen chatting with Pamela was posing as a hotel employee before he abducted her. He probably coaxed her away from her car with the promise of a key to the room she had for the night.

That's an excellent theory. The more I've thought about the theory that it's a hotel guest offering to share a room the more absurd it seems that she would fall for that. The hotel employee idea is much more plausible; the man could have been a very good, convincing con. And then she probably followed him to what she presumed would be her room, and instead he probably shoved her into his car or the trunk. If you look on the Charley Project, it says that this same man was spotted earlier in the day urinating in public, yet there is no composite. How are they so sure that it was the same man if they're not comfortable enough for a composite?

That's an excellent theory. The more I've thought about the theory that it's a hotel guest offering to share a room the more absurd it seems that she would fall for that. The hotel employee idea is much more plausible; the man could have been a very good, convincing con. And then she probably followed him to what she presumed would be her room, and instead he probably shoved her into his car or the trunk. If you look on the Charley Project, it says that this same man was spotted earlier in the day urinating in public, yet there is no composite. How are they so sure that it was the same man if they're not comfortable enough for a composite?

So sad. I don't remember this segment. I'll have to look it up. I don't see a big deal of traveling at night. Esp. with kids! It's the best time. They sleep and you don't have to turn around every 5 minutes and say, "Don't make me stop this car" lol. Also, less traffic....the whole drug thing seems odd, but again, I didn't see the show.

How are they so sure that it was the same man if they're not comfortable enough for a composite?

I'm guessing based off of the same general description given by the officer who saw Pamela talking to the man, and the description the woman who survived a similiar attack in a nearby town gave of the man who attacked her. I honestly don't see any other plausible scenario that would lead Pamela to follow this man, especially leaving her children unattended. The guy had to be posing as a hotel employee, not to mention be very convincing.

The guy had to be posing as a hotel employee, not to mention be very convincing.

Yet another reason to look into Oba Chandler's whereabouts at the time as he was known to be a smooth talker who could easily gain your trust.

Does anyone around here have the time/search skills to do that?

I remember pamela's daughter coming and posting here some time back. IIRC, she said that LE told the family that there is an inmate that will never be out of prison that they are sure killed PJR but they don't have the evidence to prosecute. Daughter couldn't tell us his name. Now I wonder if indeed this might be Oba Chandler she was speaking of.

I told my husband of your theory it could be Oba but I didn't think so because of no place nearby to dock the boat. But he said with the right boat he would have been able to drop anchor very close to the beach and walk to the motel.

Does anyone around here have the time/search skills to do that?

I remember pamela's daughter coming and posting here some time back. IIRC, she said that LE told the family that there is an inmate that will never be out of prison that they are sure killed PJR but they don't have the evidence to prosecute. Daughter couldn't tell us his name. Now I wonder if indeed this might be Oba Chandler she was speaking of.

I told my husband of your theory it could be Oba but I didn't think so because of no place nearby to dock the boat. But he said with the right boat he would have been able to drop anchor very close to the beach and walk to the motel.

I'm not saying that it definitely IS Oba Chandler, but it definitely could have been if he was around the area at the time of the incident.

I don't think the fact that there wasn't a boat dock near is relevant because he could have very well killed PJR without using the boat as bait, however, the fact that PJR's body has never been recovered could lend to the belief that if Chandler did it, he may have had his boat waiting for him somewhere and dumped her body into the water at the nearby beach area.

I'm also not sure that the suspect they believe killed her is Oba Chandler because what evidence would they have that leads them to Chandler other then pure speculation? Without a murder weapon or body, its tough to say it was anyone and be sure about it and according the PJR's daughter, LE seems pretty sure it was this "mystery person".

IIRC, (and I'm too lazy/tired to go back and search) someone posted on here and stated that Chandler was in a different state around the same time Pamela went missing. And I don't believe he was the suspect mentioned on the Charley Project website, or they most likely would have named him. I wonder what her husband and kids are up to these days.

i just think that when she screamed her kids were sleeping and therefore dint hear the screams.....however its troubling to believe that no one in the hotel area dint hear the screams...my feeling was that she was abducted and possibly raped and murdered. This is a sad case for sure....

I don't get how you hear someone screaming for help - not just loud shouting which could be an argument or anything, but specifically HELP, and you just turn over and go back to bed. What about getting in your car and going to a place where there is a phone, or were there no phone in this entire city. That's like another UM case, or maybe another show where the neighbors heard a woman across the street screaming and screaming for help, and they turn to each other and say, "Wow, it sounds like someone needs help," and then they went back to sleep. I wanted to slap those two.

Still, I wonder about these late night circumstances. I would think that a woman at 3:30 am or early in the morning would ever leave her kids in the car with all of her identification. I don't know what that man promised her, but the whole interaction seems strange. I feel that he might have invited her to "talk", maybe he said he was in the same situation as she was, and she might have thought, what harm could it do, the kids were asleep anyway, they had to wait together until morning, he seems friendly, and thinking she wasn't going anywhere, she didn't take anything with her. Then once she was in the car, he pulls a gun or a knife. I am surprised that the kids didn't even stir at the sound of screams.

Actually, I'm reading other posts, and I think the idea that he suggested he had information about her room, or a way to contact the people who worked at the front desk (she may not have known the rooms didn't have phones) seems very plausible. I do want to suggest, in any way, that she was a bad mother. It's possible she trusted him, some psychopaths are extremely friendly until they "turn" and he may have offered her some help, which, given the time and how tired she was, she gladly welcomed.

I'm not trying to "read things into this." I have just looked at this case from several different angles and have seen more than a few things that didn't make sense to me.

Does that mean that I'm right? No, it doesn't. However this case been "cold" for almost twenty years, which is frankly ridiculous as there seem to have been a number of leads.
It's past time that a new look is taken at the available evidence and that may include new theories about the crime and the victim.

As to the payphones and smoking - I'm 44, so I remember having to use a payphone when I didn't have a cell phone. It was often an unpleasant experience, but I was glad to have one available. I'm just finding it difficult to believe that people who heard screams (according to them) at 5 am would not be concerned that those screams could mean something that could cause them harm. Which, coupled w/ the fact that no one used a payphone to call the police, is another sign of the low quality of the area that the Wilhite was in.


And as I stated, not having a phone in the rooms is a sign of a low-end establishment, as both Motel 6 and Knight's Inn (two low budget motel brands) both had phones in their motel rooms in the mid 80's. People not being as attached to phones as today doesn't really cut it: whether or not you are "attached" to a phone doesn't really matter if you have a medical emergency.

As far as smoking, I believe I did note that people could smoke in the rooms at that time, but people often went outside to smoke as to not disturb the people that were in the room w/ them sleeping. Well...some had enough respect for others to do that; I can't speak to the jerks that didn't.


I don't know why Ms. Ray decided to make the trip to PCB w/ her children alone. I don't know why she didn't make reservations in advance nor do I know why she didn't simply park her vehicle at a truck stop or all night restaurant and wait until morning when the hotels would be open. The only people that would know most of those things are Ms. Ray and her family, and the family didn't seem to be too forthcoming during the segment.

The bottom line is (I like writing that) that if you have a mystery you have failed to solve after extended period using traditional methods you really only have two choices: Use new methods or completely rethink the mystery. If that means looking deeper into the background of the victim and finding unpleasant things that may exist, then that's part of life.

A lot people seem to have pre-conceived notions of how the world works and easily dismiss narratives that may paint pictures of crimes, criminals and victims that don't comfortably fit into those notions. Honestly, if people can't look at crimes w/o a heavy dose of skepticism, a degree impartiality and thorough understanding of the dark sides of human nature, they probably shouldn't try to solve mysteries as they'll simply waste time and effort.

Actually, I have to say, perhaps PCB was on a budget, choosing a hotel like that. But I actually think it's not great judgement to stay at a hotel where there are no phones. I traveled with my family during the 80's and while cell phones have definitely changed the world in terms of convenience, we're not talking about the 1880's here. If you have children and anything goes wrong or there is an emergency, having access to a phone during an emergency can make a difference. I can understand the points about this not being necessarily a "seedy" area, but without knowing the area, it does make me wonder if there was another type of motel/hotel to consider. For example, hotels that may not have a room available, but who would never turn away a mother and her two tired, underage children, and would allow them to at least stay in the lobby for the night. Motels are dodgy unless you can check in before it gets dark, I think, or at least midnight (that's why some of them close) - and that includes that fact that the rooms are outside with access to the public and whoever hangs out at 3 in the morning. Even if everything went fine and you get a key, I don't think it is a good idea to check into a motel without outside stairs in the middle of the night where something could happen on the way to your room, especially on the second floor where you have to use the dark stairs. I wish the cop had stopped and asked her if everything was all right. She might have said yes, but at least he would have gotten a look at the man's face.

21 years later, still unsolved. :(

IIRC, (and I'm too lazy/tired to go back and search) someone posted on here and stated that Chandler was in a different state around the same time Pamela went missing. And I don't believe he was the suspect mentioned on the Charley Project website, or they most likely would have named him. I wonder what her husband and kids are up to these days.

Interesting indeed.

I think we have a good suspect in her disappearance. Seems like this guy abducted and murdered several women in the PCB area in the late 80's early 90's.

http://www.wjhg.com/home/headlines/20-Year-Mystery-What-Happened-to-Pamela-Ray-165926136.html

He was also connected in the abduction and murder of Donna Callahan (featured in the Debra Poe UM segment). He was tried and convicted of her murder. Investigators also got a tip that Ray's remains may have been buried near where Donna Callahan's were found (just 30 yards away!). Unfortunately, they found nothing. It does seem like (in the eyes of investigators) that it's still possible that Pam ran away because of the financial trouble her family was in. I highly doubt she would still stay away after all of these years from her family over something that happened over twenty years ago.

I have wondered if he is the person Ray's daughter was speaking of when she posted here.

I think we have a good suspect in her disappearance. Seems like this guy abducted and murdered several women in the PCB area in the late 80's early 90's.

http://www.wjhg.com/home/headlines/20-Year-Mystery-What-Happened-to-Pamela-Ray-165926136.html

He was also connected in the abduction and murder of Donna Callahan (featured in the Debra Poe UM segment). He was tried and convicted of her murder. Investigators also got a tip that Ray's remains may have been buried near where Donna Callahan's were found (just 30 yards away!). Unfortunately, they found nothing. It does seem like (in the eyes of investigators) that it's still possible that Pam ran away because of the financial trouble her family was in. I highly doubt she would still stay away after all of these years from her family over something that happened over twenty years ago.

Excellent find, man!

I don't buy the whole "running away" thing. That seems like a cop out (no un intended) for local law enforcement so they can stop investigating the case.

Excellent find, man!

I don't buy the whole "running away" thing. That seems like a cop out (no un intended) for local law enforcement so they can stop investigating the case.

I think that the "running away" theory was probably looked at more seriously immediately after Pamela disappeared, but now that theory seems highly unlikely in the eyes of LE. I think they believe this Mark Riebe guy is responsible, but they just can't prove it was him 100% yet.

I think that the "running away" theory was probably looked at more seriously immediately after Pamela disappeared, but now that theory seems highly unlikely in the eyes of LE. I think they believe this Mark Riebe guy is responsible, but they just can't prove it was him 100% yet.

I like to think my LE and law background/knowledge is pretty good, but I have never heard of Mark Riebe.

I like to think my LE and law background/knowledge is pretty good, but I have never heard of Mark Riebe.

He was mentioned in the article I posted a couple of posts above.

He was mentioned in the article I posted a couple of posts above.

Yea I know. What I mean is, when I saw his name, it didn't ring a bell.

Yes i find it odd and dont get me started about The Charley Project. The girl that runs it seems odd to me, i run a facebook page about disappeared and her posts and replies to some of my questions are not what i would call professional.

Yes i find it odd and dont get me started about The Charley Project. The girl that runs it seems odd to me, i run a facebook page about disappeared and her posts and replies to some of my questions are not what i would call professional.

Do tell.

Megan, the one who made The Charley Project, is nice to me, at least. She added the cases of Justin Burgwinkel, Hugh Harlin, Jim Wood and Dale Kerstetter onto the site when I sent her all the pertinent information.

As for Pamela Ray, I too believe she was accosted by a serial predator/while making her way to the front desk. The fact that people heard screams but didn't do anything screams "the Kitty Genovese effect" all over again. Her poor children had to grow up without her. Pamela was not a bad mother in my opinion, just a woman who was struggling to make ends meet and may have made some bad decisions but for the right reasons. I hope her remains are found so her family has something to bury.

Megan, the one who made The Charley Project, is nice to me, at least.

Meghan didn't make the Charley Project. Someone else did and eventually handed the reins over to her.

Meghan didn't make the Charley Project. Someone else did and eventually handed the reins over to her.

Ok. Let's get back on the topic. What is the latest in Pamela Ray's disappearance? Are the police still investigating it as of now? Have they eyed a viable suspect?

Ok. Let's get back on the topic. What is the latest in Pamela Ray's disappearance? Are the police still investigating it as of now? Have they eyed a viable suspect?

I believe the cops think they know who did it, just didn't have the evidence for an arrest. The officer who underwent hypnosis to get a description of the man who he observed following her gave a description that matched a man who had sexually assaulted and kindapped a woman 5 months prior to Pamela's disappearance. The prior kidnapping and sexual assault happened an hour north from where Pamela disappeared. The guy was arrested, but eventually the charges were dropped. It's just to odd an coincidence that within 6 months two women would be targeted in roughly the same area, by a man who matched descriptions of people seen in both areas, IMO.

I believe the cops think they know who did it, just didn't have the evidence for an arrest. The officer who underwent hypnosis to get a description of the man who he observed following her gave a description that matched a man who had sexually assaulted and kindapped a woman 5 months prior to Pamela's disappearance. The prior kidnapping and sexual assault happened an hour north from where Pamela disappeared. The guy was arrested, but eventually the charges were dropped. It's just to odd an coincidence that within 6 months two women would be targeted in roughly the same area, by a man who matched descriptions of people seen in both areas, IMO.

Didn't that same individual die? Or am I thinking of the wrong perp/case?

Didn't that same individual die? Or am I thinking of the wrong perp/case?

Haven't heard anything about this guy dying.

Yeah i never said she wasnt nice but some of the comments she has made on the CP Facebook page are a bit out there and when i told her that some websites listed on pages are no longer active she said she isn't going to delete them

Yeah i never said she wasnt nice but some of the comments she has made on the CP Facebook page are a bit out there and when i told her that some websites listed on pages are no longer active she said she isn't going to delete them

Just a tip, but you may want to start using the quote button when replying. When you reply without quoting, we do not know who you are talking to. :)

She added the cases of Justin Burgwinkel, Hugh Harlin, Jim Wood and Dale Kerstetter onto the site when I sent her all the pertinent information.

Did you send her any others? I believe George Owens and Jean Moore were added at the request of person(s) here. I sent her a bunch of missing persons shows from UM, Disappeared and others. Don't think she did much with them.

Man, that Jim Wood one is bizarre. Don't think I've ever seen that one. I'll have to check my collection.

Just a tip, but you may want to start using the quote button when replying. When you reply without quoting, we do not know who you are talking to. :)
Oh i apologize...

Oh i apologize... I'm sort of new to this but thanks for the tip!

Man, that Jim Wood one is bizarre. Don't think I've ever seen that one. I'll have to check my collection.

Okay, it was in my collection and I had seen it before. Been a long time and it was a pretty short segment, so I guess that's why I didn't remember it.

Did you send her any others? I believe George Owens and Jean Moore were added at the request of person(s) here. I sent her a bunch of missing persons shows from UM, Disappeared and others. Don't think she did much with them.

Man, that Jim Wood one is bizarre. Don't think I've ever seen that one. I'll have to check my collection.

I only sent her ones from Unsolved Mysteries that I noticed were not on The Charley Project. I went through all the missing persons cases from the show and just those few were absent. The only one that I think wasn't posted was the case of Carlos Alvarez, the little California boy who was abducted by his uncle and uncle's friend, because there's no articles of the case or the physical description of either three to add enough information to the site.

Speaking of Carlos Alvarez, I firmly believe he was abducted for pedophilous reasons. The case just screamed creepy. I can't find much about the case other than its mention on Unsolved Mysteries.

I only sent her ones from Unsolved Mysteries that I noticed were not on The Charley Project. I went through all the missing persons cases from the show and just those few were absent. The only one that I think wasn't posted was the case of Carlos Alvarez, the little California boy who was abducted by his uncle and uncle's friend, because there's no articles of the case or the physical description of either three to add enough information to the site.

Speaking of Carlos Alvarez, I firmly believe he was abducted for pedophilous reasons. The case just screamed creepy. I can't find much about the case other than its mention on Unsolved Mysteries.
He's the only one from that brief "10 missing persons" segment that I think could possibly still be alive. I also wish we had more information.

This (http://archive.law.fsu.edu/library/flsupct/sc03-1330/03-1330ini.pdf) link leads to an appeal done by a man named Ernest Suggs, who was convicted for murdering a barmaid in Florida named Pauline Casey. The interesting stuff starts around page 80. Apparently, a man named Alex Wells confessed to this murder to a fellow inmate, and the suggestion is that Suggs is innocent. Wells and his half brother, Mark Riebe, were the ones who murdered Donna Callahan (woman featured in the Deborah Poe segment). Page 85 of the document goes over Pamela June Ray's disappearance very briefly, but mentions that she disappeared "under circumstances identical to that of Pauline Casey and Donna Callahan." All of these women were abducted at gun or knife point without a struggle, and their keys, cars, and purses were left behind. Just thought it was interesting.

This (http://archive.law.fsu.edu/library/flsupct/sc03-1330/03-1330ini.pdf) link leads to an appeal done by a man named Ernest Suggs, who was convicted for murdering a barmaid in Florida named Pauline Casey. The interesting stuff starts around page 80. Apparently, a man named Alex Wells confessed to this murder to a fellow inmate, and the suggestion is that Suggs is innocent. Wells and his half brother, Mark Riebe, were the ones who murdered Donna Callahan (woman featured in the Deborah Poe segment). Page 85 of the document goes over Pamela June Ray's disappearance very briefly, but mentions that she disappeared "under circumstances identical to that of Pauline Casey and Donna Callahan." All of these women were abducted at gun or knife point without a struggle, and their keys, cars, and purses were left behind. Just thought it was interesting.

Bonus points for use of the word "barmaid." :)

I forgot about this case—thank God for these forums. Some casual browsing will bring back all sorts of memories.

This segment scared the hell out of me when I first saw it years ago. I just remember her parking her car in the parking lot in the middle of the night, getting out, and leaving her children (which itself seemed weird to me). Then the screaming. Gives me the creeps.

Such a mysterious case.

BUMP

The segment says she arrived in PCB at around 4:30 in the morning, and that "witnesses" place her in her car (out front of the motel where the kids were ultimately found) at 5 in the morning. The police officer saw her follow the unidentified man into the parking lot at 25 minutes later. I guess I find it odd that at 5 in the morning multiple people claim to have seen her sitting in the car, yet no one actually attempted to speak with, or even report the screams that they heard at 5:30 in the morning. If people were up and about to see her sitting in the car prior to her disappearance, what were they doing 20 some minutes later?

My latest article on the 1 year anniversary of my blog is about Pamela June Ray. I have worked closely with her sister for this so a lot of information that UM didn't include. Hope you enjoy reading it!

https://lostnfoundblogs.com/f/pamela-june-ray-no-vacancy

My latest article on the 1 year anniversary of my blog is about Pamela June Ray. I have worked closely with her sister for this so a lot of information that UM didn't include. Hope you enjoy reading it!

https://lostnfoundblogs.com/f/pamela-june-ray-no-vacancy

A couple of questions for you:

1.) Has anything ever been said about her husband? I don't think he is involved in any way, but I don't think I've ever heard anything about him. Her dad certainly was involved in looking for her, so what's her husband's story?

2.) It bothers me that she would leave when she did knowing that there weren't rooms available. I agree with you that if she got a room, she would still be alive. Other than wanting her kids to sleep, is there any other reason she would have left to arrive in the middle of the night? Doesn't seem like the kind of place you want to be in your car at that time.

3.) This is more of a comment, but why the hell would people who heard someone scream "Help me!" not call the police or go take a look. That is so frustrating. They may not have been able to help either, but waiting a few hours didn't help.

I agree that this was a crime of opportunity. My guess is that she was probably not tired enough to sleep at that point so she was going to hang by the pool while her kids slept. I'm feel strongly that she was assaulted and murdered, but I wonder how she was removed from the scene. That couldn't have been easy, and if it was a weirdo hanging around the motel, how/where did he take her?

Has anything ever been said about her husband? I don't think he is involved in any way, but I don't think I've ever heard anything about him. Her dad certainly was involved in looking for her, so what's her husband's story?

He was interviewed for the segment. IIRC, he had to work and couldn't get off which is why Pamela took the kids to PCB without him.

He was interviewed for the segment. IIRC, he had to work and couldn't get off which is why Pamela took the kids to PCB without him.

Thanks, Cars. I haven't watched this one in a while and couldn't remember if he was on.

This case chills me to the bone. Primarily because the kids were sleeping in the car when she walked off then waking up to never see their mother again. I just can't imagine what they were thinking after that happened, or WTH Pamela was thinking walking off with them sleeping in the back in a strange town. Not mother of the year material for sure

A couple of questions for you:

1.) Has anything ever been said about her husband? I don't think he is involved in any way, but I don't think I've ever heard anything about him. Her dad certainly was involved in looking for her, so what's her husband's story?

2.) It bothers me that she would leave when she did knowing that there weren't rooms available. I agree with you that if she got a room, she would still be alive. Other than wanting her kids to sleep, is there any other reason she would have left to arrive in the middle of the night? Doesn't seem like the kind of place you want to be in your car at that time.

3.) This is more of a comment, but why the hell would people who heard someone scream "Help me!" not call the police or go take a look. That is so frustrating. They may not have been able to help either, but waiting a few hours didn't help.

I agree that this was a crime of opportunity. My guess is that she was probably not tired enough to sleep at that point so she was going to hang by the pool while her kids slept. I'm feel strongly that she was assaulted and murdered, but I wonder how she was removed from the scene. That couldn't have been easy, and if it was a weirdo hanging around the motel, how/where did he take her?

I didn't really hear too much about the husband from Rhonda. He did have to work that weekend so he didn't go. He did go to Panama City Beach as soon as he heard she was missing. Also Rhonda said she had never planned to go with Pam and then back out at the last minute like was reported.

It is unclear if this was the arrangement but Rhonda had stayed at the Wilhite herself and they had left keys in the mailbox for her if she was to arrive after hours. I don't know whether the manager of the Wilhite just said she knew not to arrive until 9 or 10 am to cover his butt and perhaps the arrangement was to leave a set of keys for her when she arrived but for whatever reason it didn't happen.

I do agree about no one calling after hearing screams for help. One part is confusing though. Robert Stack specifically says there were no phones in the rooms (which is hard to believe honestly) but Rhonda has stayed there not long before Pam went missing and she said they definitely had phones inside.

I think Pam was a good mother that was too trusting and made a mistake following him into the parking lot. One of the last things she did before she went missing was to be sure to secure her children in the car. I believe the abduction took place only a few yards away so its not like she was far away from the car. That's the biggest question for me, what did he say to make Pam follow him? Did he offer to let her use a phone he had access to or was she walking to a nearby motel (from what I understand there were a lot of them in that immediate area) to see about a room. Or perhaps she wasn't following him at all. Maybe he went to act like he was leaving and when she saw him walking away decided to go to a nearby motel and check on vacancies and he saw her alone and took the opportunity to grab her.

That's the biggest question for me, what did he say to make Pam follow him? Did he offer to let her use a phone he had access to or was she walking to a nearby motel (from what I understand there were a lot of them in that immediate area) to see about a room. Or perhaps she wasn't following him at all. Maybe he went to act like he was leaving and when she saw him walking away decided to go to a nearby motel and check on vacancies and he saw her alone and took the opportunity to grab her.
I wonder if the person impersonated a hotel employee. It may be far-fetched, but if she was tired from the drive and desperate to find lodgings for herself and her children, it's possible that this kind of ruse could have worked.

Yes, front beach road was lined with motels, both mom and pop types as well as chains.

What gets to me is that this killer just happened to be loitering outside the motel during bad weather when Pam arrived. What was his reason for being there? Did LE check a register and interview all of the Wilhite guests? How was he able to grab Pam near the pool and get her into his vehicle?

Is this segment on the unnamed site?

Is this segment on the unnamed site?

I don't think it is anymore.

I have been pulling what little hair I have left out trying to find it on that one site. It's part of season 5, however none of the season 5 episodes on that site have this segment. It appears to have gone the way of the Marlena Childress segment

Which episode has this case? I cant find it anywhere.

Which episode has this case? I cant find it anywhere.

It was not a part of the Film Rise series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM3Tr0R3iP8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM3Tr0R3iP8



You're the best!

Also, excellent name.

Unsolved. In 1999, convicted killer Mark Riebe confessed to killing Pamela. He claimed that he and his wife were out partying in Panama City and were looking for someone to rob. He noticed Pamela's car with out-of-state license plates and had his wife pull over in the motel parking lot. He claimed that he followed Pamela and abducted her at knifepoint. He then killed her and either buried her body in Point Washington or dumped it in the ocean.

However, he later recanted

Frustrating case with a small window of opportunity for the perpetrator. I wish they had included it in the FilmRise release, if only for the small chance that someone watching would have information to provide that could help solve the case.