I always found this interesting. I heard they were re-exumed in 2007 to get some more evidence and DNA.

Unsolved Mysteries said since they looked alike, they could have been brother and sister.

Wouldn't DNA matching easilly have determined if they were brother and sister (or related)? As far as I know, this hasn't even been done?

Also, the man may have been Jock or Jacques, from Canada. One of the pieces of jewelry found on him had some initials that started with 'J" Was this ever investigated further with Canada?

I see there are now also Myspace pages made to help find out who these people were.

Any info or opinions would be great!

I always found this interesting. I heard they were re-exumed in 2007 to get some more evidence and DNA.

Unsolved Mysteries said since they looked alike, they could have been brother and sister.

Wouldn't DNA matching easilly have determined if they were brother and sister (or related)? As far as I know, this hasn't even been done?

Also, the man may have been Jock or Jacques, from Canada. One of the pieces of jewelry found on him had some initials that started with 'J" Was this ever investigated further with Canada?

I see there are now also Myspace pages made to help find out who these people were.

Any info or opinions would be great!

bump

There are a lot of unanswered questions as to the investigation of this mysterious couple. I believe I read somewhere that the man told someone his name was Jacques and his father was a doctor in Canada. That is some very specific information to look into. I also doubt they were siblings. Of course this could be conclusively determined by a dna test but it just seems more plausible that they were a couple traveling across the UM than that they were brother and sister. I think they were both runaways and they may not even be listed as missing. That would explain why they've never been identified.

It would be interesting to know if they were brother and sister or not. I never thought about it before, but you're right, that story seems unlikely. If they were, they would have been identified probably.

I forget the details exactly, but weren't their clues (specifically, expensive dental work on one or both of them) that suggested these people were from a fairly well-to-do background?

there's no more information on this one?

EDIT: here is what i found guys...

http://www.theitem.com/article/20090802/ITNEWS01/708029980/0/ITNEWS

looks like they have a lead.

i'm pretty sure the guy who the gun they found with it...he knows who did it.

There are a lot of unanswered questions as to the investigation of this mysterious couple. I believe I read somewhere that the man told someone his name was Jacques and his father was a doctor in Canada. That is some very specific information to look into. I also doubt they were siblings. Of course this could be conclusively determined by a dna test but it just seems more plausible that they were a couple traveling across the UM than that they were brother and sister. I think they were both runaways and they may not even be listed as missing. That would explain why they've never been identified.

there is a high liklihood they were runaways. from what i read everything you say is true. I'm going to add other stuff about what i've been able to find out.

first off, the murders were execution style murders. the coroner working this case seems adamant about it. Also, they found the gun used in murder. ballistics prove this. THey found tire tracks at scene. The police seem fairly sure they know who did it and why they did it. It also seems llike they were fairly close to a complete case. The only thing missing is the ID of these individuals to establish motive.

Most likely it seems like they ripped them off. It feels like this couple might have been running cons. thats my gut instinct. its not strong theory but its a start. firstly, the female is strikingly beautiful. I am fairly sure they were running cons with her being the bait. They were living in campsite at time of murder. They seemed to have had pedicures and manicures before time of death. They seemed to have jewelry on them. for vagabonds they sure were well to do.

this seems to explain a lot. this seems to explain why the canadian lead has never worked. the link i provided above, seems to indicate that it could be this canadian couple, the yakimchuks. I am fairly sure it isn't. but what happened to them is a different story.

if they were conning people, i suspect the jacque story is invalid. it also explains why no one is looking for at least, this guy. this guy to me could have been a criminal doing petty cons/crimes and incorporated her. i think she's the runaway.

the only way to solve this, and i believe this is the next frontier in the dna database is finding close matches. Dna evidence is primarily focused on "high variable regions". Without revealing much, i've dabbled in this. I"ve conducted the protocols myself with pcr and all that good stuff. Anyways, these regions in your dna vary greatly from people to people whereas most dna is very similar. these regions are used to determine matches. if we run a dna database and find a reasonably close match, we then have a lead. I do not know if the current dna database does this, however, it should. It would solve a lot of these jane does.

anyways i'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this. this case intrigues me as well.

there's no more information on this one?

EDIT: here is what i found guys...

http://www.theitem.com/article/20090802/ITNEWS01/708029980/0/ITNEWS

looks like they have a lead.

i'm pretty sure the guy who the gun they found with it...he knows who did it.

Thanks for posting this. I don't think they are a match either. Here are their Doe Network Profiles with a few different recreations, some are more "morgue photo-y" than others:

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/189ufsc.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/198umsc.html

I also don't think they are brother and sister. To me they look nothing alike. I wonder if they haven't been identified partly because their families didn't know the other person, and the case is overlooked because it's an unidentified couple.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/classics/mystery_couple/

this should give more background.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=6616
a whole bunch of articles here

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=6616
a whole bunch of articles here

SOme of these pictures are very macabre. just a warning for everyone out there. if you do not enjoy looking at pictures of the deceased.

They look very East European to me. Maybe they where spy's from one of those cold war countries. Something went wrong and they where eliminated. Maybe far fetch but that the best I could do. If they where spy's and taken out by they're own or by the Americans it could explain the lack of identification and for not being missing...
It also could be a a runaway couple from a cold war East European country who was unlucky and met with foul play and robbed. But it is strange that the killer or killers didn't take they're rings and jewelry.

They look very East European to me. Maybe they where spy's from one of those cold war countries

How do you classify them as being Eastern European?

Please specify.

If they where spy's and taken out by there own or by the Americans it could explain the lack of identification and for not being missing...

Or they could be hits for organized crime or terrorism. They may be kidnap victims. Badder-Meinhoff, Red Brigades and Povisional IRA occasional committed gang style executions like this one.

Has DNA ruled them out as being brother and sister?

How do you classify them as being Eastern European?

How do you classify "cold war country"

Please specify.
Cold war countries: Soviet-union, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Romania and countries like that
Eastern Europeans: people from countries like Poland, Romania and so on..



Has DNA ruled them out as being brother and sister?
I'm not sure but that something forensics easily can find out. I have only read "they look like brother and sister" cause their facial structures was alike.

Sorry to be a lazy bum here, but I don't have time to read all the links.

Does anyone know why it's assumed that these two were traveling together from the moment they started out on the journey that ended in their murders?

From scanning some of the info in the links above, it seems that the man was known to travel through several states. Perhaps the girl was just a runaway he picked up somewhere and they are not connected in anyway other than acquaintances.

one thing is this. the likely killer has died. whats the point of witholding what you got? i remember reading the sc authorities have actually lost evidence in this case. wow.

from the readings you pretty much find out LE found the gun and most likely suspects but they didn't have enough for a prosecution. Transient cases are hard.

BUt all my opinions are above. THis case is one of the ones that bugs. this woman, even in death is strikingly beautiful. many things do not seem to fit and make this an odd case.

Transient cases are hard.

Especially when it's a case where the victim is unidentified. It is very hard to establish a suspect and a motive without knowing for sure who the murder victim was. :(

Originally Posted by Mastermind
How do you classify them as being Eastern European?

How do you classify "cold war country"

Please specify.
Cold war countries: Soviet-union, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Romania and countries like that
Eastern Europeans: people from countries like Poland, Romania and so on..

1. I would think any counterintelligence activity on US soil would only be authorized by the KGB or GRU of the Soviet Union., rather than their satellite secret service organizations. I can't imagine Polish secret service doing a murder on US soil without the KGBs authorization and help.

2. Many Jewish people in America are of Eastern European stock, so they could ver well be Jewish Amercians or Israeli.

3. Gypsies are very widespread in America back then and today. There is a HUGE Gypsie community in Maryland for example.


4. Italian and Sicilian people do have mix with Eastern European blood so Cosa Nostra or any other ethnic mob organization is a possibility

5. Many Greeks can pass for Eastern European.


I don;t know if we can really go on the leap that the suspects are Eastern European.

one thing is this. the likely killer has died. whats the point of witholding what you got? i remember reading the sc authorities have actually lost evidence in this case. wow.

Though the killer may have died, the organization or people he was associated with may very much be alive and operating. There is a potential risk.

1. I would think any counterintelligence activity on US soil would only be authorized by the KGB or GRU of the Soviet Union., rather than their satellite secret service organizations. I can't imagine Polish secret service doing a murder on US soil without the KGBs authorization and help.

.
Soviet Union pretty much controlled all the East European countries. KGB could recruit people from any of those countries. Even DDR, East Germany(Stasi) was controlled by the Soviets...

I love the theory that these two were grifters or cons of some type.

I have always thought that the "My doctor father, in Canada, disowned me for not becoming a doctor" sounded a little to pat, like a tired old story from a Victorian novel. Much like Kramer giving evidence about not becoming a banker like his father.

It does sound like a story that a grifter would spin. I would also think that those sort of people could be runaways/orphans with little to no family roots - the type of people who could disappear and not be missed.

Actually the police knew more than I was aware of:
http://www.rogerstv.com/get.asp?lid=121&rid=51&sid=2520&mid=8&arid=51&sor=2&oth=1&gid=28086

They have the murder weapon and the killer is probably dead.
And that they are probably from Canada even though I'm skeptical to this.
A "witness" say he camped with the couple for two weeks.

I love the theory that these two were grifters or cons of some type.

I have always thought that the "My doctor father, in Canada, disowned me for not becoming a doctor" sounded a little to pat, like a tired old story from a Victorian novel. Much like Kramer giving evidence about not becoming a banker like his father.

It does sound like a story that a grifter would spin. I would also think that those sort of people could be runaways/orphans with little to no family roots - the type of people who could disappear and not be missed.

I just wanted to say that is an excellent point Tighthead that I hadn't considered - that the story of the father who was a doctor in Canada that disowned probably isn't truthful, just trying to garner sympathy.

I've always been a bit suspect of the person who found the couple. I think he could be more involved than just happening upon two dead bodies.

I love the theory that these two were grifters or cons of some type.

I have always thought that the "My doctor father, in Canada, disowned me for not becoming a doctor" sounded a little to pat, like a tired old story from a Victorian novel. Much like Kramer giving evidence about not becoming a banker like his father.

It does sound like a story that a grifter would spin. I would also think that those sort of people could be runaways/orphans with little to no family roots - the type of people who could disappear and not be missed.

thanks for loving my theory. yeah, like i said in initial post, my gut instinct is that they were con artists. justice in this case seems to be elusive. LE seemed very close. What matters now seems to be just identifying the victims and hopefully give their families some peace.

I haven't looked at any of the doe network links because I'm too scared. :eek: but what makes some of you throw out the brother and sister theory?

but what makes some of you throw out the brother and sister theory?

1. How often do you find a brother and sister of their ages together? Traveling together? Do you have a sister? Think about how often the both of you are alone together outside? Twoi brothers together yes. But not a brother and a sister.

2. Oedipus theory does happen. Some people tend to marry or date people that resemble themselves. One of the girls I used to go out with in college, resembled me so much, people used to think we were brothers and sisters. People tend to go out with the same ethnicity. It's possible the resemblence may simply be the fact that both people are of the same ethnicity.

3. They may be second cousins rather than brother and sister.

If they are siblings, I think they must be a con team.

1. How often do you find a brother and sister of their ages together? Traveling together? Do you have a sister? Think about how often the both of you are alone together outside? Twoi brothers together yes. But not a brother and a sister.

2. Oedipus theory does happen. Some people tend to marry or date people that resemble themselves. One of the girls I used to go out with in college, resembled me so much, people used to think we were brothers and sisters. People tend to go out with the same ethnicity. It's possible the resemblence may simply be the fact that both people are of the same ethnicity.

3. They may be second cousins rather than brother and sister.

If they are siblings, I think they must be a con team.


My sister passed away a few years ago. And come to think of it, her and I did not look similar. Maybe the structure of our face was similar but that was it. She was light skinned and had straight hair. I'm the opposite. And now that I think about it, my brother and I don't look very much alike. He's even darker than I am. And my husband and I are of completely different races. He's even from another country.

But back on topic, no one really knows for certain if they were related. If they were a con team, then the execution style killing could have been done as pay back. Or these two could have been victims themselves.

I hope one day we find out. :(

I would tend to think that DNA testing, especially mithocondrial DNA, would confirm or infirm whether they are brother and sister, or even related to one another at least on the mother's side. Don't tell me they did not keep any bodily evidence to test out, even just for blood typing! Nowadays it's like the first thing most investigators would check when confronted with a two unindenfied victims of similar age.

I am very surprised that, given the technology and the knowledge we have today, this mere fact is still being debated thirty years later: Test it and get on with it.

I would tend to think that DNA testing, especially mithocondrial DNA, would confirm or infirm whether they are brother and sister, or even related to one another at least on the mother's side. Don't tell me they did not keep any bodily evidence to test out, even just for blood typing! Nowadays it's like the first thing most investigators would check when confronted with a two unindenfied victims of similar age.

I am very surprised that, given the technology and the knowledge we have today, this mere fact is still being debated thirty years later: Test it and get on with it.

Testing has been scheduled for some time. I think there was a backlog to fight through, and the age of this case makes it a low priority.

It should be pointed out that it is not unusual for cousns to marry. Especially in the Old World.

I haven't looked at any of the doe network links because I'm too scared. :eek: but what makes some of you throw out the brother and sister theory?

Don't be scared. :) The only thing that may be creepy on the Doe pages are the stories behind the UID's. They never put any grisly photos or anything like that (at least without a warning or a link). I find them fascinating to read and I love trying to match UID's with missing people.

Don't be scared. :) The only thing that may be creepy on the Doe pages are the stories behind the UID's. They never put any grisly photos or anything like that (at least without a warning or a link). I find them fascinating to read and I love trying to match UID's with missing people.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you here. Some people are more sensitive than others, and you can't make that kind of call for someone else. I have a hard time even looking at those computer-altered photos that are created from morgue photos. You can tell. There is something super creepy about them.

People know what they can or can't handle.

I've looked at the morgue photos of the South Carolina couple, but it wasn't voluntary. They just popped up on one of the newspaper links posted here. There's no blood or gore, but they are disturbing photos that you don't want to look at after dark and/or when you are alone. :eek:

So they were each shot in the back, chest, and throat? Isn't that what hitmen and spies do to people to ensure death? Shooting someone in the throat is a sadistic way to kill someone. They can remain alive for minutes afterwards feeling the life drain out of them.

Actually the police knew more than I was aware of:
http://www.rogerstv.com/get.asp?lid=121&rid=51&sid=2520&mid=8&arid=51&sor=2&oth=1&gid=28086

They have the murder weapon and the killer is probably dead.
And that they are probably from Canada even though I'm skeptical to this.
A "witness" say he camped with the couple for two weeks.
When you pause that video at 1:53, it looks like they could be twins. The mouth, nose, and eyes in the profile shot look very similar. In the video, it says they were each shot in the back twice and in the throat once, not once each in the chest, back, and throat. In some of the pics, they have a foreign look to them. I would say European. I wonder if they could find out back then who was visiting the country from passports, or if they kept a record of which passports were used to enter the country.

So the .357 that the suspect had on him was confirmed as the murder weapon or do they still not know? It's pretty bizarre that they find the killer and the murder weapon before identifying the victim(s).

They have the murder weapon and the killer is probably dead.

Assuming he acted alone and not under the orders of someone.

.357 Magnum is standard issue for police back then.

Like I"ve mentioned before in this thread. The cops knew who the killer was and probably the motive. The suspect in this case has long since died.

Yes they were shot execution style. Threads on other sites regarding this case has the coroner or district attorney (one of two) stating this. This was an execution no doubt.

dna will solve this case somehow. as long as they got the bones, some family will hit it. might be a while though.

I don't remember this episode at all. Any chance of finding it online anywhere?

There are several details that seem to have left out by the police (perhaps in hopes of not giving too much away to the killers):

1) The man had matches, but no cigarettes? Was there any evidence that he smoked? Or that she did?

2) The statement was made that they could be siblings. Wouldn't that have been determined by a blood test shortly after the bodies were found?

3) They make a big deal about the woman's legs being shaved. But were her armpits? It wasn't commonly the case during the time period where the bodies that European women would do that. Also, were her nails manicured/pedicured? Recently? That could give an idea of where and how they traveled.

4) Apparently neither had any major surgeries nor broken bones as neither are mentioned in the article. That could have provided clues to their identity.

5) The gun they found on the suspect;were the bullets in the gun a match for the type of bullets used to commit the crime? Crooks are notoriously stupid and using the exact same type of ammunition is the kind of goofball move that could be expected.

Also, was the gun cleaned at the time they found it? Was it cleaned before it was used to kill the couple? The gun being in the same state when it was used and when it was found would be an indicator that its owner might have been the killer.

There are many more questions, but I'll start off w/ those.

I don't remember this episode at all. Any chance of finding it online anywhere?

This actually wasn't a full segment, but was mentioned very briefly near the end of a special feature UM did about unidentified victims. Like the unidentified Grateful Dead fan, the Sumter couple has become pretty legendary amongst John/Jane Doe aficionados. Just do a search on "unidentified John and Jane Does" at the forbidden video site.

Oh yes, I am familiar with the case. I was just unaware they had been featured on the show. I'm going to search for the video.

Oh! Now I remember the segment! This was one of the segments that was kind of boring to me at a younger age. Thank you!

There are several details that seem to have left out by the police (perhaps in hopes of not giving too much away to the killers):

1) The man had matches, but no cigarettes? Was there any evidence that he smoked? Or that she did?

Back in the 1970s, the fact that someone was a smoker wouldn't really narrow things down too much. You would be able to tell if someone is a smoker from the autopsy. I think the more important information would be where the book of matches came from.

2) The statement was made that they could be siblings. Wouldn't that have been determined by a blood test shortly after the bodies were found?
IIRC, the last I read up on this case, they were waiting on DNA tests to come back. There may have been updates since then, but I haven't checked. I personally don't think that they are brother and sister, strictly based on their morgue photos. I don't think they look like they are related, but then again, I don't look much like 2 of my siblings.

Back in the 1970s, the fact that someone was a smoker wouldn't really narrow things down too much. You would be able to tell if someone is a smoker from the autopsy. I think the more important information would be where the book of matches came from.


IIRC, the last I read up on this case, they were waiting on DNA tests to come back. There may have been updates since then, but I haven't checked. I personally don't think that they are brother and sister, strictly based on their morgue photos. I don't think they look like they are related, but then again, I don't look much like 2 of my siblings.

Hmmm...

1) The reason that I mentioned the matches was if he didn't smoke...the matches may not have been his. Or hers. If they didn't smoke, the matches may have belonged to the killer.

Obviously it's possible that the male could have picked up the matches during his travels, but it would be wise to be certain of this before assuming that they do.

2) There are serological tests that could have been done in 1970's if they really thought that the two were siblings. Any later DNA test would simply confirm what they would already know.Finding that out ASAP might have made it easier to track down their identities as I doubt that few adult children at that time (or now) go missing at the same time.

Her legs weren't shaved. That's one of the reasons that the eastern European angle came about.

The pack of matches was traced to a truck stop in I believe Oklahoma. When employees were questioned they had no idea who the two were. Could these matches belong to the killer?

The man had a tshirt from an auto race from Florida on that happened the year before in 1974.

They also had eaten fruit or ice cream with fruit in it as a last meal. Now my memory is hazy but I believe a local fruitstand vendor recognized the pair from the day they were killed.

The closest neighbor to the crime heard the shots. They figured it was kids shooting signs and didn't report it. The crime was practically in his front yard.

An interesting note, a group of ghost hunters have taken to doing EVP at the graves of these two and have had some interesting results. They have not made any public, but I have contacted the group for more info.

Her legs weren't shaved. That's one of the reasons that the eastern European angle came about.

You are correct. I mistakenly read shaven, where it said (several times) that her legs were unshaven. That could mean the woman was of European, Central Asian or Latin American origin.

You have to wonder by unshaven did they mean stubble or did they mean she had never shaved her legs. Huge difference between the two and that could have led them to where they were staying before they were found.

You are correct. I mistakenly read shaven, where it said (several times) that her legs were unshaven. That could the woman was of European, Central Asian or Latin American origin.

You have to wonder by unshaven did they mean stubble or did they mean she had never shaved her legs. Huge difference between the two and that could have led them to where they were staying before they were found.

I'm going to have to go with never shaven or rarely. A little stubble wouldn't mean much so there would have to be heavy indication the legs were getting the natural treatment for them to have the foreigner theory.

What I've never understood is why tissue samples can't be taken to determine if the two were in fact related, and how closely. (Forgive me, but I'm not particularly well versed in what sort of DNA could be extracted now, or how telling it would be of familial relationships. Could anyone with a better understanding maybe shed a little light on this?) Wouldn't that make things a bit easier to investigate? Of course, I understand it's a cold case and there may not be a lot of resources or attention allotted to it, but if there's a strong suspicion the two may have been brother and sister, why not attempt to find out forensically?

What I've never understood is why tissue samples can't be taken to determine if the two were in fact related, and how closely. (Forgive me, but I'm not particularly well versed in what sort of DNA could be extracted now, or how telling it would be of familial relationships. Could anyone with a better understanding maybe shed a little light on this?) Wouldn't that make things a bit easier to investigate? Of course, I understand it's a cold case and there may not be a lot of resources or attention allotted to it, but if there's a strong suspicion the two may have been brother and sister, why not attempt to find out forensically?

There's no reason it couldn't be done; my understanding is that the SC lab is just woefully backed up and hasn't completed the tests yet since this case is apparently low on their priorities.

Even if DNA was too degraded (doubtful, but possible), mtDNA could be extracted and would clearly indicate a family relationship, if one existed.

What I've never understood is why tissue samples can't be taken to determine if the two were in fact related, and how closely. (Forgive me, but I'm not particularly well versed in what sort of DNA could be extracted now, or how telling it would be of familial relationships. Could anyone with a better understanding maybe shed a little light on this?) Wouldn't that make things a bit easier to investigate? Of course, I understand it's a cold case and there may not be a lot of resources or attention allotted to it, but if there's a strong suspicion the two may have been brother and sister, why not attempt to find out forensically?

There are blood tests (serology) that could have been done at the time the bodies were found that could have identified the two as blood relations. The later DNA tests would have simply confirmed what the blood tests would have already established.

The tests were relatively inexpensive (at the time) and could have easily determined whether the two were related and from that determined if they matched a missing brother/sister pair. No sure why they didn't do it at the time.

Here's another thing: While there clothes may have been stained by blood and contact w/ the ground, where they generally clean? If they were staying at a campground in the 1970's, it's doubtful that they would have had the facilities to clean their clothes. If they were staying a motel, the clothes would be more manageable.

I also notice that outside of their dental issues, there was no mention of any other medical issues. If they were from Europe/ Central Asia/Latin America, you would expect them to possibly have TB scarring on their lungs, vaccination scars even potential parasitic infestation. While I can understand their desire to keep the medical privacy of the two, I can also see where releasing that information may have helped identify them.

You guys, they probably did not know at the time that these two relatively well-kept individuals were found that we'd still be looking for their identities 35 years later. They probably did all of the standard post-mortem procedures and called it a day, thinking someone would surely come along and identify them in a matter of days. Hindsight is 20/20. Bureaucracy is a you-know-what.

You guys, they probably did not know at the time that these two relatively well-kept individuals were found that we'd still be looking for their identities 35 years later. They probably did all of the standard post-mortem procedures and called it a day, thinking someone would surely come along and identify them in a matter of days. Hindsight is 20/20. Bureaucracy is a you-know-what.

Which was a poor assumption,was it not? And poor assumptions are why most cases grow "cold."

The fact that the police in that area didn't think that finding two bodies executed on the side of the road wasn't anything "special" makes you wonder what,exactly, they would think would be "special?"

Which was a poor assumption,was it not? And poor assumptions are why most cases grow "cold."

The fact that the police in that area didn't think that finding two bodies executed on the side of the road wasn't anything "special" makes you wonder what,exactly, they would think would be "special?"

I didn't say that the police thought it was nothing special. Do you really think they thought that??? :rolleyes: I don't think police and ME's do a perfect job 100% of the time, but I'm not quite that cynical.

My point is that they probably thought that a man and a woman killed together who didn't appear to be transients would be identified. They were wrong. Even if they did determine immediately that they were/were not related, that doesn't mean the case would have been solved. We will probably never know that for sure. This is obviously a very unusual situation, otherwise it would not have been featured on UM.

I didn't say that the police thought it was nothing special. Do you really think they thought that??? :rolleyes: I don't think police and ME's do a perfect job 100% of the time, but I'm not quite that cynical.

My point is that they probably thought that a man and a woman killed together who didn't appear to be transients would be identified. They were wrong. Even if they did determine immediately that they were/were not related, that doesn't mean the case would have been solved. We will probably never know that for sure. This is obviously a very unusual situation, otherwise it would not have been featured on UM.

There are a number of things that could have been done in this didn't seem to have been done and that may have made this case easier to solve, IMHO. These include:

1) If they had assumed that they were foreign nationals and sent their findings to the State Department or US Customs within the first few days, they may have made further progress.

2) Had they gathered fibers from the bodies and had them analyzed, they possibly could have discovered what type of car the two were traveling in and where they stayed.

3) The bullets that killed them had to be purchased somewhere.

4) Additional medical details (this is before HIPAA) could have been released so that more people could have helped to pinpoint the origin of these two people.

5) The fruit stand that sold them the fruit had information on how they paid for the fruit that they were found to have consumed. The people there also didn't see the car that they drove up in?

6) Unless these people were illegal immigrants, they had to go through Customs to get into the US. While there weren't the computer databases that there are today, somebody somewhere would have remembered an attractive woman like the woman in this case and there would also be a record of their entry.

The police in the area that these two were found were obviously overwhelmed and failed to get the help they needed in a timely enough manner to solve this case.

You guys, they probably did not know at the time that these two relatively well-kept individuals were found that we'd still be looking for their identities 35 years later. They probably did all of the standard post-mortem procedures and called it a day, thinking someone would surely come along and identify them in a matter of days. Hindsight is 20/20. Bureaucracy is a you-know-what.

Sure, I get that. I was just wondering if it was a possibility now.

Sure, I get that. I was just wondering if it was a possibility now.


Soooo, did the dna prove they were related or no? :O

Same, I'd like to hear any update about the results! One of those cases that has always bugged me, even though, as others have pointed out, UM didn't really spend much time covering it.

Offtopic: @Mastermind, I've been lurking around here for awhile but have always wondered what case the sketch from your avatar is from?

Same, I'd like to hear any update about the results! One of those cases that has always bugged me, even though, as others have pointed out, UM didn't really spend much time covering it.

Offtopic: @Mastermind, I've been lurking around here for awhile but have always wondered what case the sketch from your avatar is from?


Not trying to speak for him, but I think it's the creepy East area rapist one. I have never seen it on UM, but on the actual EAR website.

Not trying to speak for him, but I think it's the creepy East area rapist one. I have never seen it on UM, but on the actual EAR website.

Many thanks! I've been lurking these forums for awhile, and always wondered about his avatar...so creepy! Sorry if that seems like a lame reason to finally sign up. :p

Can someone explain why they believe the killer is dead? I'm nervous at the thought of these articles, as much as I love information, because I am fearful that there are some disturbing photos. I accidentally saw morgue photos from the finding Kay thread and that really disturbed me.

Can someone explain why they believe the killer is dead? I'm nervous at the thought of these articles, as much as I love information, because I am fearful that there are some disturbing photos. I accidentally saw morgue photos from the finding Kay thread and that really disturbed me.

I clicked on one of the links and it was so old it's gone. Those links are from about 2 years ago. I hate when news sites remove that stuff. Sometimes, I will quote the article or the important parts of it (and include the link) because of this, even though some places discourage quoting an entire article for copyright reasons.

The doenetwork links still work, and their photos and images aren't too graphic. They don't say anything about new info or why they think the killer is dead.

You probably will not want to click on the TruTv link. On the first page, there is a crime scene photo (in black and white) without warning. It shows the couple dead and lying on the ground. Not good for folks who do not like to view these kinds of things.

The TruTv article says this, re a gun and a suspect. I don't know if it's the same info about the suspect discussed in this thread:

Authorities thought they had their best lead yet when, about four months after the slayings, police found the gun they believe was the murder weapon.
A North Carolina man suspected of driving drunk was arrested while traveling through Latta, S.C. Police say they found a gun that had part of its serial number filed off in the man's car. The gun, believed to have been stolen, was sent to the State Law Enforcement Division (SLED) for examination. SLED experts said the bullets taken from that gun matched those retrieved from the bodies.

''To this day, they still believe that was the murder weapon,' McGehee said.
Authorities said a polygraph test indicated the man was not always truthful during questioning, but they never charged him with the killings. They said they couldn't place him at the scene of the crime.

The man, who has since died, had an alibi: His wife was in a North Carolina hospital, and witnesses told police he was there visiting her. Investigators, wanting to see for themselves if it were possible for the man to sneak away to Sumter County and speed back to the North Carolina hospital, timed the drive.

It would have taken too long, they decided. So they let the one suspect they had go.

Henry Lee Lucas also admitted to killing them, and he's now dead, but that nutjob confessed to nearly every murder in the country, so he's pretty much discounted as a suspect.

The link that Porchlight gave in post #9 is still good. It links to a lot of info all in one place. The crime scene photo and morgue photos are included, so you may not want to view that site. They have more than 20 posts and many of them fully quote the articles. I didn't read to see if there's anything that's being referenced here, but the TruTv info and some other stuff mentioned in this thread is repeated.

In post #21, Slasherman gave us this info, but, again, the link to the article is dead:

Actually the police knew more than I was aware of:
http://www.rogerstv.com/get.asp?lid=...th=1&gid=28086
They have the murder weapon and the killer is probably dead.
And that they are probably from Canada even though I'm skeptical to this.
A "witness" say he camped with the couple for two weeks.

I clicked on one of the links and it was so old it's gone. Those links are from about 2 years ago. I hate when news sites remove that stuff. Sometimes, I will quote the article or the important parts of it (and include the link) because of this, even though some places discourage quoting an entire article for copyright reasons.

The doenetwork links still work, and their photos and images aren't too graphic. They don't say anything about new info or why they think the killer is dead.

You probably will not want to click on the TruTv link. On the first page, there is a crime scene photo (in black and white) without warning. It shows the couple dead and lying on the ground. Not good for folks who do not like to view these kinds of things.

The TruTv article says this, re a gun and a suspect. I don't know if it's the same info about the suspect discussed in this thread:

Authorities thought they had their best lead yet when, about four months after the slayings, police found the gun they believe was the murder weapon.
A North Carolina man suspected of driving drunk was arrested while traveling through Latta, S.C. Police say they found a gun that had part of its serial number filed off in the man's car. The gun, believed to have been stolen, was sent to the State Law Enforcement Division (SLED) for examination. SLED experts said the bullets taken from that gun matched those retrieved from the bodies.

''To this day, they still believe that was the murder weapon,' McGehee said.
Authorities said a polygraph test indicated the man was not always truthful during questioning, but they never charged him with the killings. They said they couldn't place him at the scene of the crime.

The man, who has since died, had an alibi: His wife was in a North Carolina hospital, and witnesses told police he was there visiting her. Investigators, wanting to see for themselves if it were possible for the man to sneak away to Sumter County and speed back to the North Carolina hospital, timed the drive.

It would have taken too long, they decided. So they let the one suspect they had go.

Henry Lee Lucas also admitted to killing them, and he's now dead, but that nutjob confessed to nearly every murder in the country, so he's pretty much discounted as a suspect.

The link that Porchlight gave in post #9 is still good. It links to a lot of info all in one place. The crime scene photo and morgue photos are included, so you may not want to view that site. They have more than 20 posts and many of them fully quote the articles. I didn't read to see if there's anything that's being referenced here, but the TruTv info and some other stuff mentioned in this thread is repeated.

In post #21, Slasherman gave us this info, but, again, the link to the article is dead:

Actually the police knew more than I was aware of:
http://www.rogerstv.com/get.asp?lid=...th=1&gid=28086
They have the murder weapon and the killer is probably dead.
And that they are probably from Canada even though I'm skeptical to this.
A "witness" say he camped with the couple for two weeks.

Thanks, Tracy! I know I must sound oversensitive, haha, and I think I'm strong with some things but not good with others. I saw the DoeNetwork page and didn't find that too disturbing. Thanks for the info!

Thanks, Tracy! I know I must sound oversensitive, haha, and I think I'm strong with some things but not good with others. I saw the DoeNetwork page and didn't find that too disturbing. Thanks for the info!

You're welcome! :)

I watched a video about these two yesterday. It is very sad to think that after all these years and advances in technology, we still do not know whose these two individuals are. I am sure someone somewhere loved them and has been missing them.

I think the brother/sister angle serious impeded finding out the true identities. People looking probably passed right over this case with that hypothesis in mind. Also, did anyone think it was strange the female did not have underwear on? Could she and the man have been lovers?

I thought that was strange too. Was going commando popular in the 1970s? Maybe their attacker discovered them having sex, maybe in a car or outside? They got dressed quickly but forgot their underwear. Or maybe they simply did not pack enough for their trip and did not have a chance to do laundry. Difficult to say if this was significant or not. I am also confused by the woman's unshaved legs. Did they mean they had never been shaved or just had not been shaved for awhile? Perhaps they were runaways who did not have underwear or razors, they could have fled in a hurry.

I thought that was strange too. Was going commando popular in the 1970s? Maybe their attacker discovered them having sex, maybe in a car or outside? They got dressed quickly but forgot their underwear. Or maybe they simply did not pack enough for their trip and did not have a chance to do laundry. Difficult to say if this was significant or not. I am also confused by the woman's unshaved legs. Did they mean they had never been shaved or just had not been shaved for awhile? Perhaps they were runaways who did not have underwear or razors, they could have fled in a hurry.

I think it probably means she had never shaved her legs, or at least not for an extreme amount of time. It must have been more than stubble they found.

Yeah you are probably right. I know a few women who choose not to shave, and most of them say it is because they do not care. To me this girl cared about her looks...the jewelty, clothes, shoes. I would say the theory of the couple being foreigners is very possible, and it might also explain why the two have yet to be identified.

I think the brother/sister angle serious impeded finding out the true identities. People looking probably passed right over this case with that hypothesis in mind. Also, did anyone think it was strange the female did not have underwear on? Could she and the man have been lovers?


Neither was wearing underwear, but I think that was more the result of trends of that era, or not wanting to lug around any extra clothing in backpacks. It's unbelievable that these two weren't traveling with a backpack; possibly their possessions were still in the killer's vehicle when he fled from the murder site.

I don't dismiss the KOA employee's account of the pair; the real problem with identification here is that they probably were never reported as missing, regardless if they were from Canada or another country. Many investigative agencies of the time would have refused to file a missing persons report on two adults who left of their own volition.

The shoes she was wearing were not the kind of shoes one walks in for long periods, so I think they had a car that was stolen that night. also, I have read elsewhere that the bullets were .357, but the gun the police found that supposedly shot them was a .38. A .38 can't shoot .357 bullets, but a .357 can shoot .38 bullets. Either it got mixed up, or the tests were wrong. or a conspiracy to frame it on the guy they suspected, but I generally don't believe in conspiracies.
Also, in the morgue photos, Jane appears to be wearing eyeliner. No makeup products were found in her possession, so where did her cosmetics go? Left in the car, maybe?

As far as going commando, hell I do that. just for comfort and sometimes I am in such a hurry I just throw my britches on and go.
And I read the man had an appendectomy scar, as well as a scar on his shoulder. It was guessed that he was into contact sports, due to the shoulder scar and his physique. And his dental work was said to be the work of a foreign dentist, and he was in the process of a total mouth restoration- very expensive stuff.
I'm from Charleston, and I'm going up to visit later on this month. I plan on making a detour to visit the scene of this crime to get a feel for the area. Anybody have any idea where on Locklear Rd this happened?

I want to know more about the main suspect, what was the motive? did he know them? was he local to the area?.

No, he was not local. He lived in north carolina. His wife was in the hospital at the time of the murders, and witnesses say he was visiting her that day. He was picked up driving drunk in SC, and the cops found a gun with part of the serial number filed off. Ballistics tests showed it was this gun that fired the bullets that killed the couple. The man lied about where he got the gun and how the serial number was filed off. Turns out the gun was a christmas present from his brother years before the murders. The suspect was given a polygraph and he passed the questions asking if he killed the couple, but showed deception when asked if he knew who did. This guy was a petty crook, and had all sorts of people coming in and out of his house who could have had access to the gun. Plus the guy was an alcoholic, and a psychologist wondered if he could have killed them and just not remembered. The suspect died in 1982. As far as motive, I don't know. The coroner strongly believes it was drug related, that the couple were running drugs up from florida. Investigators think the man they investigated knew more than he told, but of course he's dead now.
Currently, many people believe the couple are refugees from argentina's "dirty war." Go to trutv.com crimefiles and read the facebook comments under the article on this. The names of the missing argentinian couple are posted, as well as links to their photos. The woman looks alot like the jane doe, but I dont think its them. Who knows.

Okay, I don't know where the idea that Eastern European women don't shave their legs or wear underwear comes from, but it has no basis in reality. My ex-husband is from one of the former Soviet bloc countries and his mother, who was within the same age range given for Jane Doe, most certainly shaved her legs and wore underwear. She also wore skirts every day and despite having a degree in engineering and a full-time job, was responsible for all the childcare, housekeeping and cooking. Society in Slavic countries then (and even now, to a certain degree) was very male-dominated and women were expected to take care of themselves, their homes and their men, lest they be beaten.

You'll have to pardon me if I find it a little hard to swallow that after somehow managing to break through the Iron Curtain (no mean feat in the 1970s), the otherwise well-groomed and well-nourished Tanya Doe is going to burn her bra, toss out her razor and go traipsing around South Carolina, of all places. Because that's how defectors (and former spies, naturally!) always act, right? With all due respect, I have to wonder if any of you coming up with these fiction-worthy spy/defector/assassination theories have actually met anyone from one of the former Soviet or Eastern Bloc states. Reality doesn't always match up with what you see in spy novels. My ex was shocked by the idea that some women didn't shave their legs, and the communist regime in his old country (he's a U.S. citizen now) had fallen six years before he got here.

I also wonder if you're aware that the vast majority of Eastern Europeans are Slavs, because Jacques and Jane Doe do not look Slavic. At all. While it's true that not every Slav looks alike (they populate a vast area, and you have to make allowances for regional variation), there are certain facial characteristics and features they have in common that the Does simply do not share. I'm inclined to think that they were exactly what they said they were: French-Canadian. And for what it's worth, I asked my Slavic ex to take a look at the morgue photos and tell me what he thought the couples' ancestry might be. All I told him was that they were unidentified murder victims. Without hesitation he said, "They look French."

On the subject of their transportation, I wanted to add that a witness had seen them buying fruit from a roadside stand, but the witness could not recall how they arrived or left (i.e., whether they came in their own car or were hitchhikers). This seems to be a rather pivotal clue, since there was fruit found in their stomach contents, indicating that they died not long after it was consumed.

Yes, but she was wearing wedges. I think hitchhiking would require alot of walking, and wedges aren't comfortable for that. Of course, she was a pretty girl, so maybe they got rides everywhere.
they look french to me. Don't think they are from canada. Like somebody else said, that doctor story was a little too good to be true. Besides, all the 'prominent' doctors in quebec have been looked into.
as far as assasinations, that's what the coroner and investigators at the time said it looked like. not because of any international intrigue, but for drugs. Lord knows how many people have been killed over drugs.

Oh, and I read the camp ground manager (the one jock told the doctor story to) said jock was flashing a wad of money around.

Yes, but she was wearing wedges. I think hitchhiking would require alot of walking, and wedges aren't comfortable for that. Of course, she was a pretty girl, so maybe they got rides everywhere.
they look french to me. Don't think they are from canada. Like somebody else said, that doctor story was a little too good to be true. Besides, all the 'prominent' doctors in quebec have been looked into.
as far as assasinations, that's what the coroner and investigators at the time said it looked like. not because of any international intrigue, but for drugs. Lord knows how many people have been killed over drugs.

That's why I brought up the witness from the fruit stand. I think it's possible they were traveling in their own vehicle (like the missing Canadian couple that seems to be the most promising match, though I don't think the woman looks anything like Jane Doe) and whoever killed them either stole it or disposed of it somehow.

As far as the assassinations business goes, I think you're referring to one detective's statement that the victims had been "executed" where they were found. This, along with the couple's possible foreign origins (though the same article from which the earlier quote is taken also describes them as "All-American boy and girl travelers" and not the "hippie-type") seems to have given rise to theories -- by others, that is --of international intrigue.

On a semi-related note, I find it interesting that while the Does weren't killed "execution style" (e.g., a bullet to the back of the head), their killer does seem to have been a rather methodical type. Both victims were shot twice in the back, turned over, and shot under the chin. I don't think this is at all indicative of a political motive. The killer may well have been a hunter or someone with a military background. His precision certainly suggests the latter. Everything I've read gives the gun as a .357, which makes me wonder why he felt the need to roll them over and deliver a coup de grâce. I don't mean to sound callous, but even I know that shooting someone in the back with a .357 at close range is very likely going to be fatal. The fact that he had such a big gun and chose to shoot them both in the back is telling in and of itself. He couldn't look at them until he was fairly certain they were dead, and even then, he had to shoot them both again for good measure. The very cruel and cowardly nature of the crime speaks volumes about the person who committed it.

Haven't heard about this one in some time. Wasn't their case featured along with another Jane Doe case?

Haven't heard about this one in some time. Wasn't their case featured along with another Jane Doe case?

It was on an episode that featured the Dana Point Jane Doe, and also mentioned a young woman who was hit along the highway in California.


Oh, and I read the camp ground manager (the one jock told the doctor story to) said jock was flashing a wad of money around.

It was the husband of a KOA employee; he stated that he had played pool with Jock/Jacques and that Jacques attempted to sell a ring to him. This resembled the ring with the initials JPF that was found with the body. Unfortunately, the witness is deceased, and the KOA records were lost in a fire when the coroner tried to locate them.

The coroner doesn't believe that they were hitchikers, due to the fact that they had recently showered. I don't necessarily agree with that, since I hitchhiked when I was younger and dumber and have also camped out in a vehicle -- there are plenty of campgrounds, truck stop showers, and plain old restroom sinks, if someone is determined to keep clean. Most campgrounds have laundry facilities. Regardless if they had transportation or not, they probably had backpacks/luggage.

The couple definitely looked French, whether they were from Quebec/eastern Canada or were French nationals. The story that Jacques told seemed credible; he had signs of casual affluence (his jewelry and the elaborate dental work), neither had alcohol or other drugs in their systems, and they were spending time doing touristy things -- going to campgrounds, visiting races -- rather than behaving in ways that would suggest they were involved in criminal activities. I think the fact that they weren't locals and that there wasn't an obvious motive on the suspect's part just lended itself to wild speculation.

It's been a long time since I read this thread. I don't remember how much clothing was found with the Does. But if there was clothing, it would seem like at least some of it would have labels in it from the country they came from if not America. Unless they had lost all their luggage.

They could have been a foreingn couple who had planned to hitch hike and see the country that way.

Also, as to hygeine, Not trying to sound like I'm stereotyping here....when I worked at Wal~Mart in the late 90s, a contractor was in charge of doing the floors at night. They were there every night. He brought groups of people- young men and women from European countries to work. Their hygiene left A LOT to be desired. They bathed once a week (or so it smelled). The guys wore the same clothes all week. The girls wore make up and new American clothes and styled their hair. However, they too only bathed once a week. You couldn't get near these people as the week wore on. They reeked of perspiration- they also did not wear deoderant.

For those who have seen the morgue photos of the faces, maybe you can answer a question of mine. In the shots with the Does' eyes opened, they look as though they've been digitally altered/modified for some reason.

Ex: compare the eyes in the first and second photos [GRAPHIC IMAGE WARNING]:
http://a3.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/18/8f7e77d96056dd48717f01ebc15ed84d/l.jpg
http://a3.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/78/33022e6f61a88906db8eb3027bb4c28d/l.jpg

I've seen crime scene and morgue photos before but I've never noticed something like this. It's even creepier than the original photos themselves. Was it done to show how Jane Doe appeared "in life" perhaps? For what it's worth, John Doe received the same treatment, and nearly all relevant photos to the case can be found here (http://www.myspace.com/jockandjanedoe/photos/albums/my-photos/249363#mssrc=SitesPhotos_SP_AlbumCover_ViewAlbum) (again, graphic images in that link as well).

Any ideas?

My guess would be that there was possibly insect damage to the eyes and there was some digital enhancement done in order to make them look more lifelike and aid in the identification. even if there wasn't insect damage, dead eyes look different. perhaps it was done so they wouldn't look so creepy and to look more lifelike.

My guess would be that there was possibly insect damage to the eyes and there was some digital enhancement done in order to make them look more lifelike and aid in the identification. even if there wasn't insect damage, dead eyes look different. perhaps it was done so they wouldn't look so creepy and to look more lifelike.

Sounds plausible, and I appreciate the input. I think one of the images that they constructed the Jane Doe from (the "open mouth" death stare, for lack of a better description) had her actual eyes, which is why I was a bit confused. But then again, maybe even that has been edited.

It just looks so blatantly edited, and I'd never seen anything like that before, so I was intrigued as to the reason behind the modifications. Apologies for such a morbid discussion!

Seems a gleam was added, but they still look vacant. These pics used to give me the willies, but I've seen them so many times, and pictures so much worse, I am sorta desenthsized (sp?)
In the crime scene pic, it appears the woman has a look of horror on her face. Like she knew it was coming. I just can't imagine the fear and helplessness. The man doesn't have that same look. His expression is more of a surprised one. I'm guessing he was taken out first, then the woman.

Seems a gleam was added, but they still look vacant. These pics used to give me the willies, but I've seen them so many times, and pictures so much worse, I am sorta desenthsized (sp?)
In the crime scene pic, it appears the woman has a look of horror on her face. Like she knew it was coming. I just can't imagine the fear and helplessness. The man doesn't have that same look. His expression is more of a surprised one. I'm guessing he was taken out first, then the woman.

I opened both of the images up in photoshop today, and it almost seems like the eyes on both Jock and Jane Doe are superimposed. They appear to be drawn. At first I thought maybe they took stock pictures of someone else's eyes but up close, they look very much like they were hand-drawn. Seems to be some discrepancy in the area around the eyes, a little lighter, which leads me to think this is what they did.

But that leads me to another question: I don't recall seeing many morgue photos with the eyes open, with very few exceptions (President Kennedy's autopsy photos being the one that comes to mind) but these appear to have been, as Killarney suspects, done to make Jock and Jane more lifelike. In the end, I think it makes already weird images even weirder, and doesn't seem to do Jane Doe justice. If you compare the crime scene pic to the "eyes" pic, they don't really look much alike.

And yes, the "death stare" is horrible. I think you're absolutely correct in positing that she was killed second, and had realized what was happening.

And yes, the "death stare" is horrible. I think you're absolutely correct in positing that she was killed second, and had realized what was happening.
Thanks for the warnings but of course my curiosity made me click on the link :rolleyes: And that death stare has to be one of the scariest things I've ever seen :(

Thanks for the warnings but of course my curiosity made me click on the link :rolleyes: And that death stare has to be one of the scariest things I've ever seen :(

Right? I have to say, these are some of the more unsettling posthumous images I've seen related to UM. Very, very creepy.

Didn't realize that there was so much information about this couple

I thought that was strange too. Was going commando popular in the 1970s?

It was the husband of a KOA employee; he stated that he had played pool with Jock/Jacques and that Jacques attempted to sell a ring to him. This resembled the ring with the initials JPF that was found with the body. Unfortunately, the witness is deceased, and the KOA records were lost in a fire when the coroner tried to locate them.

The coroner doesn't believe that they were hitchikers, due to the fact that they had recently showered. I don't necessarily agree with that, since I hitchhiked when I was younger and dumber and have also camped out in a vehicle -- there are plenty of campgrounds, truck stop showers, and plain old restroom sinks, if someone is determined to keep clean. Most campgrounds have laundry facilities. Regardless if they had transportation or not, they probably had backpacks/luggage.

The couple definitely looked French, whether they were from Quebec/eastern Canada or were French nationals. The story that Jacques told seemed credible; he had signs of casual affluence (his jewelry and the elaborate dental work), neither had alcohol or other drugs in their systems, and they were spending time doing touristy things -- going to campgrounds, visiting races -- rather than behaving in ways that would suggest they were involved in criminal activities. I think the fact that they weren't locals and that there wasn't an obvious motive on the suspect's part just lended itself to wild speculation.

As a Quebecer, I can chime in on this question. After all, we are French Canadians.

"Flower power" was strong among the youth in Quebec in the late 60s and 70s, and it was happening in parellel with the growth of nationalist/independentist movement led by the RIN, then later in the late 60s by the Parti Québécois. One of the biggest icons of the Quebec hippie "flower-power" movement was the 50s author Jack Kerouac, himself French-Canadian, who wrote the autobiographical On the Road which tells his story of him going commando throughout the US on a self-discovery Beatnik journey.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Road

Quite a few young adults would trek to the US on their own, usually through wagoneers or hitchhiking. They'd usually head to California, but some might go south instead towards Florida, which has always been a cherised vacation destination for Quebecers, even today.

It is entirely possible that Jock and Jane Does were indeed young French Canadian adults, Beatniks coming either from middle-class to well-to-do families, who decided to make such a trip in the US in this spirit - except that it ended violently for them. Since they traveled through the East Coast, it is almost certain they were either Quebecers or Acadians, if indeed they were French Canadians.

Knowing that, perhaps Jock Doe was indeed telling the truth : He was son to a doctor in Canada (most probably Quebec, if FC) who traveled to Florida for vacation and was coming back up with stops throughout the East Coast, that he and his parents were estraged because he didn't want to become a doctor, etc.

I don't believe these were a con team, they seem to show on the contrary that they were naive young adults in a foreign land. From what the witnesses have stated he was not acting too bright and safety-oriented around strangers, flashing large amounts of ocash when paying. A con man, especially unarmed and vulnerable, would be savyy enough not to do that around total strangers. Seems rather than he and Jane Doe were perfect victims for a murder/robbery.

What I don't understand, however, is why these two have never been reported as missings in Quebec, even in the 70s and 80s. The only reason I could see is that these two were estranged from their family/parents and that they had already cut contact with their respective families, which again is not unheard when children in well-to-do families decide to go against the grain.

When I have time, I will forward the information on this case to the Sûreté du Québec, in case they have this cold case in their archives.

Another thought,

It was noted that Jane Doe did not shave her legs. Maybe Jane Doe was a second-wave feminist militant in college.

Many women throughout college campuses who were part of feminist organizations would refuse to shave their legs as a statement against patriarchy's demands on women. I don't know how it was on US campuses at the time, but I know that in Europe and in Quebec it was a trend among feminists.

I wonder if the unshaved legs is a red herring. If they were traveling around, hitching and the like, they may have been on the road for months. Ever try to keep your legs silky smooth when you're never in the same place 2 nights in a row? It may not be a political statement. I may not be a cultural definer. It may simple be practicality.

I suppose they need to throw every bit of info out there.

This actually wasn't a full segment, but was mentioned very briefly near the end of a special feature UM did about unidentified victims. Like the unidentified Grateful Dead fan, the Sumter couple has become pretty legendary amongst John/Jane Doe aficionados. Just do a search on "unidentified John and Jane Does" at the forbidden video site.

You just stole an hour from my life :lol:

I wish I could help. I watch the videos, but many of the victims died either when I was a small child or before I was born. I watch them though, just in case I come across a missing persons page and can tie the two cases together. Wish I could do more.

You just stole an hour from my life :lol:

I wish I could help. I watch the videos, but many of the victims died either when I was a small child or before I was born. I watch them though, just in case I come across a missing persons page and can tie the two cases together. Wish I could do more.
I feel the same way. I really admire people who spend so much time looking at UIDs and missing persons reports trying to find matches. Even if I am not a fan of Websleuths' administration practices, I think a lot of the users are plain awesome and apparently, several matches have been found by users who spent a lot of time sifting through old cases! One of my biggest wishes would be to link Sharon Marshall/ Tanya Hughes to a missing person and finally discover her identity. That's pretty doubtful though, as we have no idea where she came from.

This mystery couple really gets to me as well and I'm glad to see them getting so much attention on the boards here and that they have their own sub-forum on WS. I think what really is hard about the case is that the two are more than likely foreigners so there are no missing persons records readily around to access, and we don't know for sure where they came from. Adding nearly 40 years since the time of the crime makes it all the more difficult. I am wondering if the authorities contacting any agencies in Europe to take a look at missing persons reports from the 70s? Sounds like that would be very difficult and what's even worse we don't know if back in their home country the couple was reported missing at all.

From 2014...I see no one has posted since 2013..sorry if there is another thread, I will delete:

http://venturegalleries.com/blog/mystery-of-the-sumter-county-does/