What is your guys' opinion on what became of DB Cooper?

I think he survived the jump, if he picked one of the three parachutes that would open instead of the one that was stitched closed. He must have planted the money discovered in order to throw authorities off, making it seem like he did not survive the jump. As for the rest of the money which has never turned up in circulation, I see these as possibilities:

1) DB Cooper was a drug dealer, or involved in some sort of valuable antiques or artifacts business, exchanged the money he got on the plane with bills or some valuable objects from a business partner, killed that partner, and destroyed the money.
2) He altered the serial numbers on the bills to be able to use them.
3) He went to some foreign country to spend the money.

But if he died, I believe he lost the money later discovered while descending, and landed with a crash, killing him, maybe in the mountains or a lake which is a common unvisited area or geographically unfamiliar, which could account for his remains never being found.

1) DB Cooper was a drug dealer, or involved in some sort of valuable antiques or artifacts business, exchanged the money he got on the plane with bills or some valuable objects from a business partner, killed that partner, and destroyed the money.

It has been long thought that DB Cooper may have been a career criminal. Though I think his most likely prior occupation would be that of bank robber or money launderer.

2) He altered the serial numbers on the bills to be able to use them.

I don't know if that was feasible back then or today.

3) He went to some foreign country to spend the money.

I don't see how the bills wouldn't wind up in US circulation at some point.

I've just always thought there were so many factors working against D.B. Cooper being alive.

1) He jumped in the middle of a thunderstorm with no light source.
2) The remoteness of the area he jumped into
3) The fact that one of the reserve chest chutes was a dummy that wouldn't open.
4) The fact that none of the money has ever turned up into circulation
5) The finding of some the money on the banks of the Columbia river years later by the little boy.

I think Cooper was a career criminal who probably died the night of the jump.

I think Cooper was a career criminal who probably died the night of the jump.


DOes anybody know the name of the person/actor who played Cooper in that 1988 Unsolved Mysteries episode? I have been unable to find it, and being that its 21 years later, the actor could even be dead as he appreared slightly older as it was in that episode.

2) "He altered the serial numbers on the bills to be able to use them."

"I don't know if that was feasible back then or today."

Mastermind,

Back when this happened, weren't some counterfeiters using a method of soaking smaller bills in some kind of a solution to remove a lot of the inks so they could apply new numbers or denominations on them?

I think I've heard of something like that, so that the counterfeiter could use the high quality paper to make their fake bills.

But in Cooper's case, how many bills did he have, and in what denominations? If he had a lot of money, he would have been very, very busy trying to alter each bill individually, just to be able to get the cash into circulation, undetected.

Quote:
2) "He altered the serial numbers on the bills to be able to use them."

"I don't know if that was feasible back then or today."


Mastermind,

Back when this happened, weren't some counterfeiters using a method of soaking smaller bills in some kind of a solution to remove a lot of the inks so they could apply new numbers or denominations on them?

I think I've heard of something like that, so that the counterfeiter could use the high quality paper to make their fake bills.

But in Cooper's case, how many bills did he have, and in what denominations? If he had a lot of money, he would have been very, very busy trying to alter each bill individually, just to be able to get the cash into circulation, undetected.


I'd have to look into it, but it sounds possible.

But if that's true it points to a couple of things:

1. That DB Cooper was avery experienced criminal and had a very detailed plan. Which leads to him being a career counterfeiter, bank robber or intellingence officer.

2. It also points to DB Cooper having potential accomplices.

3. It also opens the possibiliy that DB cooper kept the money hidden somewhere (safe, trunk, safe deposit box, heck maybe his mattress) while he converted the bills slowly over a period of time.

I think he died the night he jumped.

On a completely different note, why is my posts number moving steadily backwards?

How sure can they be none of the money was spent that was before computers, I heard they sent a list of the serial numbers for people to check bills against but overworked, underpaid cashiers and such, how diligent are people really? They burn bills after they have been in circulation for time period I think that is done by government contractor. I thought the money was current issue at the time not some kind of silver or gold certificate that would stand out

On a completely different note, why is my posts number moving steadily backwards?

Sounds like some sort of "Time Regression Phenomenon". It would make a good Unsolved Mysteries segment.

Personally I think he died the night he jumped, if not he died several days later.

There was someone who use to post on here that claimed her deceased boyfriend/husband was DB Cooper because he admited to it close to death or some such like that. I just never brought that story, seemed off to me.


TeresaB24.

I've just always thought there were so many factors working against D.B. Cooper being alive.

1) He jumped in the middle of a thunderstorm with no light source.
2) The remoteness of the area he jumped into
3) The fact that one of the reserve chest chutes was a dummy that wouldn't open.
4) The fact that none of the money has ever turned up into circulation
5) The finding of some the money on the banks of the Columbia river years later by the little boy.

1) The hijacking was most likely not the first time DB Cooper had ever used a parachute. He seemed to have known a lot about aviation so he was probably also a paratrooper or skydiver or something like that, so he probably knew how to dive at night, and also probably knew the area in which he would have landed.
2) He might have been familiar with the area or type of area.
3) They should have revealed which chute he took. If out of the 3 chutes left on the plane, one of them was the dummy chute, then that means he strapped on a real chute and more likely survived.

I think the FBI has said they don't believe this was a jump an experienced skydiver would have attempted. Are they to have us believe that this is exactly the type of jump that an INEXPERIENCED skydiver would attempt?

It was a very difficult jump, given the weather conditions, but I believe it's a jump that an experienced, yet cocky, skydiver would have attempted.

I think he died the night he jumped.

I think the FBI has said they don't believe this was a jump an experienced skydiver would have attempted. Are they to have us believe that this is exactly the type of jump that an INEXPERIENCED skydiver would attempt?

I agree, but it leads to two points,

1. why DB Cooper has not been identified yet. Someone has been missing for all this time, why has that disappearance not been connected to Cooper.

2. I find it hard to believe that DB Cooper would try this without a reasonable belief that he would could escape and survive the jump. i wonder if peoplke are looking to much into the dummy parachute. professionals have been unknown to make egregious errors in times of pressure. There was alson no reason for DB Cooper to jump at that particular moment. Other than he had his cash and knew he would be arrested once the plane landed.

That to me is the reason why i believe there is a slim

I agree, but it leads to two points,

1. why DB Cooper has not been identified yet. Someone has been missing for all this time, why has that disappearance not been connected to Cooper.

I don't put much stock in someone missing him, there are a lot of unidentified remains on the Doe Network. Plus he was old enough to just vanish without family members thinking anything of it.

This is assuming that members of his family were alive when he jumped, it could be that the family died off and he was the last one left. Probably was a bit of a loner and didn't have many friends, if at all to miss him. Tying in with that, he could have cut off all communications with his family years prior and they thought nothing of it, as he could have had limited contact with them before the jump.



2. I find it hard to believe that DB Cooper would try this without a reasonable belief that he would could escape and survive the jump. i wonder if peoplke are looking to much into the dummy parachute. professionals have been unknown to make egregious errors in times of pressure. There was alson no reason for DB Cooper to jump at that particular moment. Other than he had his cash and knew he would be arrested once the plane landed.

That to me is the reason why i believe there is a slim


The thing is, what if he actually had no, or very little knowledge in parachuting. He could have figured that well since he had a parachute that he could safely land on the ground. I can not see a knowledgeable parachuter jumping in those types of conditions, as they would know how unsafe it was to jump in those conditions.

Just throwing out my opinion and other ideas.


TeresaB24

I think the big thing is this guy was not dressed for, and didn't really appear to be prepared for, a week or more in adverse conditions in one of the biggest forests in America. So, even if he survived the jump (not a guarantee by any stretch), he landed at night, in a deep, deep woods, in a cold, driving rain. He had no boat with which to navigate rivers. I'm sure at the time there was a full public alert out on suspicious people trying to hitchike out of the area, so even if he found a way out to a road, it would have been difficult for him to get a ride anywhere without arousing suspiscion. He would have landed where he didn't know where he was, in poor clothing for the conditions, in the dark, and in the rain, and in a situation where hitchiking would have been dangerous for him. How exactly did he get out of where he landed? And if he did get out, why did he leave a substantial sum of money behind?

I think the big thing is this guy was not dressed for, and didn't really appear to be prepared for, a week or more in adverse conditions in one of the biggest forests in America. So, even if he survived the jump (not a guarantee by any stretch), he landed at night, in a deep, deep woods, in a cold, driving rain. He had no boat with which to navigate rivers. I'm sure at the time there was a full public alert out on suspicious people trying to hitchike out of the area, so even if he found a way out to a road, it would have been difficult for him to get a ride anywhere without arousing suspiscion. He would have landed where he didn't know where he was, in poor clothing for the conditions, in the dark, and in the rain, and in a situation where hitchiking would have been dangerous for him. How exactly did he get out of where he landed? And if he did get out, why did he leave a substantial sum of money behind?

1.After the landing, it is not crazy to assume he survived, since we have several stories of people surviving the woods with similar clothing and lack of tools. One point that has to be noted is that nobody saw Cooper Jump, so we don't know what was done before the jump or what he had in his pockets or in that briefcase.

2. A lot of Coopers Survival post landing depends on whether he had an accomplice. One theory that has been postulated is that DB Cooper may have had some sort of homing device in his pocket. Such a device would seem logical and not that difficult to obtain for a military person. The device could range from the crude to the high tech. Such a device could easily be spotted from a plane. Heck DB Cooper wouldn't even need to survive, either!. The homing device would lead the accomplice right were the money landed along with Cooper's Body. The accomplice could take the money and leave Coopers body.

3. If you really think about it the crux of the Cooper didn't survive is that Cooper's chute never opened. I think a lot of people believe that if Cooper's chute had opened Cooper's survival chances could be greater.

4. Again, you have to wonder why Cooper decided to jump then and there unless he had a feeling he could have survived.

5. I believe there is a stuntman who attempted to do the DB Cooper jump and survived. Anyone know the story and the jumper.

6. As crazy as it sounds, keep in mind that nobody ever saw DB Cooper jump. It's assumed that's what happened. While I don;t believe this theory, there have been some people who believe that DB Cooper never jumped and simply hid on the plane and walked out like everyone else. Very "Inside Man" like. :crazy:

While I believe Cooper died on his jump, I don;t believe the possibility of surviving should be ruled out so directly. Until someone can identify Cooper I'm under the assumption that DB Cooper is a wanted man.

The thing is, what if he actually had no, or very little knowledge in parachuting. He could have figured that well since he had a parachute that he could safely land on the ground. I can not see a knowledgeable parachuter jumping in those types of conditions, as they would know how unsafe it was to jump in those conditions.

But he did know a lot about plans and particularly how to operate the landing on a DC-10. DB cooper was most likely in the military involving planes which means he would have had some training in parachuting. Especially if he was a pilot which is a strong possibility.

People forget that pilots are not trained to be professional jumpers like Airborne Rangers. They usually know the rudiments and are taught to expect to land in water and bad whether and to jump out of a cockpit. Especially in older Korean War or Vietnam War planes that did not always have good ejection seats. I have to imagine jumping out of a cockpit over the pacific is ten times worse than what Cooper had to do.

You know, that would explain why he would not know that his chute was properly prepared. Most pilots chutes are stuffed by other people and they usually don't know the make up. I doubt your average F-22 pilot knows other than the basics checklist what is pack actually consists of.

I don't put much stock in someone missing him, there are a lot of unidentified remains on the Doe Network. Plus he was old enough to just vanish without family members thinking anything of it.

few of those cases involve:

1. missing same time DB Cooper jumped, which half the country saw on TV news reports.
2. A person that is in the military, of Coopers age, ascent.
3. A person That is being search for Massively FBI and international police.



Most of the unidentified missing remains are most likely murders. DB Cooper was most likely not murdered.

few of those cases involve:

1. missing same time DB Cooper jumped, which half the country saw on TV news reports.
2. A person that is in the military, of Coopers age, ascent.
3. A person That is being search for Massively FBI and international police.



Most of the unidentified missing remains are most likely murders. DB Cooper was most likely not murdered.


I used the Doe Network as an example on how someone could disappear/die and no one notice. I was not trying to imply that he was in there somewhere amongst those.

I feel if he were in the military, someone would have recognized him and pipe in to say that I served with him in this platoon, we were stationed at X, or we were deployed to the same area. Yes the military is huge, but you know those you served with, did basics with or something.

I just think that even though this may have seemed like a well planned event, it just really wasn't. I think we might possibly all agree that D.B.Cooper was not his real name.


As for the conditions of the jump, again if he were experienced he would have to have known the likelihood of not landing safely in the the weather that night. It may be a big clue as to why he jump at that spot and no one has figured it out yet.

So my mind wonders if he did this to prove you could, and he didn't care if he lived or died after the jump. I also feel that there is something so obvious that he keeps being overlooked, but I couldn't begin to tell you what as well then it wouldn't be missed.


TeresaB24

So my mind wonders if he did this to prove you could, and he didn't care if he lived or died after the jump. I also feel that there is something so obvious that he keeps being overlooked, but I couldn't begin to tell you what as well then it wouldn't be missed.

1. But, DB Cooper's plan was not original. It had been thought of prior by several criminals and had been copied by several others and done successfully. His plan was not without it's merits.

2. You don't find it interesting that DB Cooper jumped once he had his money first?

3. Remember that DB Cooper used an alias. And had threatened that he had a bomb. He also had an idea of how much money he wanted and want his demands were. He chose a plan to board that he new the schematics of. DB Cooper had a plan. This was not not a spur of the moment thing. Cooper had thought about pulling this caper of for a while. He probably came up with the plan in

4. Every robber and criminal accepts a huge risk of like in doing any crime . I don't think the reason Cooper jumped was that he felt nobody would care about him. I think Cooper jumped because he didn't want to spend his life in prison when he landed and he felt he had more than a 50% chance of escaping with a huge payday. How is what Cooper did any more dangerous than holding up a bank if you think about it or selling drugs on a street corner in South D.C.?

Ultimatly I think the real reason Cooper has not been identified is that he is a career criminal and that he has several alias and has always disappeared or is moving. Being a criminal he would have no ties and would be prepared to leave everything at a moments notice. I believe DB Cooper looked at this caper as his "retirement" from crime as well as a human achievement to do the impossible. By nature, most robbers, forgers and fraud artists are arrogant and tend to view and take jobs as a challenge. DB Cooper probably saw this as his crowning achievement to his criminal career.

BTW One reason why DB Cooper may have worn a suit and glasses is due to the practice of robbers or criminals dressing like businessman to avoid suspicion. It's very common for bank robbers to dress like businessman in three piece suits before a job. Possibly another clue to DB Coopers identity.

Also keep in mind that DB Coopers plan went pretty much flawless up till the jump. The only mistake was the dummy chute. And even there I wonder, what if DB Cooper noticed the chute, what was he going to do? Request another one? That would probably take too much time and risk. I think an experience jumper could still make a jump with the dummy chute. Cooper's plan worked brilliantly till he jumped out. Considering he carried out most of the plan with ease, why would he not be prepared for the jump itself and have a plan there as well.

I think the big thing is this guy was not dressed for, and didn't really appear to be prepared for, a week or more in adverse conditions in one of the biggest forests in America. So, even if he survived the jump (not a guarantee by any stretch), he landed at night, in a deep, deep woods, in a cold, driving rain. He had no boat with which to navigate rivers. I'm sure at the time there was a full public alert out on suspicious people trying to hitchike out of the area, so even if he found a way out to a road, it would have been difficult for him to get a ride anywhere without arousing suspiscion. He would have landed where he didn't know where he was, in poor clothing for the conditions, in the dark, and in the rain, and in a situation where hitchiking would have been dangerous for him. How exactly did he get out of where he landed? And if he did get out, why did he leave a substantial sum of money behind?

We don't know what he wore under his business suit, nor do we know what he had in his pockets. He might have been wearing Under Armour type of clothing that would help keep him warm. I am not sure about the rain (it was certainly cold, but they didn't say it was raining that night. In his pockets, he might have had survival tools, such as a compass, zippo lighter and pocketknife. As long as he could produce a fire in the wilderness, he could live for a few days out there, plenty of time to escape. He also could have used the compass to find his way out of the woods.

He probably had an accomplice too. He could have gone to a nearby town or gas station out on a remote stretch of highway, called his accomplice to pick him up, then disappear. As for the money he left behind, I see two possibilites:

1) He accidentally dropped the stack on his way out of the woods. The money was found by a lake shore, so he probably drank from it, having no bottled water so he had to drink something to survive, then unnoticingly dropped a stack of the money because he didn't want to carry it in his briefcase or the parachute pack.
2) He landed at a place far from the lake where the stack was found, then planted the money at that lake to throw the authorities off (they would concentrate their search at that lake.

We don't know what he wore under his business suit, nor do we know what he had in his pockets. He might have been wearing Under Armour type of clothing that would help keep him warm. I am not sure about the rain (it was certainly cold, but they didn't say it was raining that night. In his pockets, he might have had survival tools, such as a compass, zippo lighter and pocketknife. As long as he could produce a fire in the wilderness, he could live for a few days out there, plenty of time to escape. He also could have used the compass to find his way out of the woods.

It has been hypothesized that he may have had some form of a wetsuit or themal gear with cut off sleeves.

You also have to keep in mind that he came aboard with a carryon. God knows what else was in it besides the "bomb".

Can you imagine the wind blasting at him as he jumped out of the plane? What if he didn't tie the money well enough to himself, and the money sack completely blew off of his body during the descent? All that work, all that daring for.........nothing but the thrill of it. (Actually might have cost him money, counting the plane ticket's cost)

Can you imagine the wind blasting at him as he jumped out of the plane? What if he didn't tie the money well enough to himself, and the money sack completely blew off of his body during the descent? All that work, all that daring for.........nothing but the thrill of it. (Actually might have cost him money, counting the plane ticket's cost)

True. But keep in mind that other people have planned the same caper before and after Cooper jumped. The risk of the money blowing away had to occur to them as well as Cooper at some point.I don't think there is really any other was to secure the money except to simply take the risk of losing some.

A point that I think gets overlooked is that DB Coopers plan was not original. It had been thought of by several people other than Cooper. This was not a spontaneous act. Cooper thought about doing this caper way before his jump.

I think Cooper is definitely dead. Take the time of year, it was November and would have been cold, he most assuredly didn't know what location he was jumping out at being that it was pitch black outside, and he probably landed in Lake Merwin. He would have only had very few minutes to get out of that water and get warm and dry before hypothermia set in. And wherever he landed after his jump he was most likely injured because of the distance of the jump and the dark of night. Him being injured would have been a major hinderance to him, and he would have had to get help awful quick. I think when he landed he broke his leg on the way down and died from his injuries and they never found his body!

If he got the chute open, I just wonder where it is/was. They never found it, despite extensive aerial searches.

If he got the chute open, I just wonder where it is/was. They never found it, despite extensive aerial searches.

1.If he landed, the chute would be useful for shelter and potentially clothing. The chute also could be used to protect the money. If he had a knife he could have torn the chute into several strips.

2. Well he still haven't found his body yet, attached to the unopened pack either.:D

3. If he landed and and had an accomplice, bringing the chute with them would be a wise decision as to avoid leaving evidence.

nor do we know what he had in his pockets

1.He most certainly had matches and/or a lighter.
2. Might have had cigarrettes.
3. His own money and possibly credit cards that would avoid having him use the marked bills.
4. Potentially a knife of some sort (quite possibly a cigar knife or swiss knife). REMEMBER THAT HE MAY BE A CRIMINAL, they usually have a knife on them for protection.
5. Whatever "the bomb" was made of.
6. Whatever else was in the suitcase,
7. His sunglasses
8. Car or house keys,
9. A watch. (and possibly a watch fob, though nobody saw it)
10. A chain for the keys or the watch
11. Fake ID, passport, (badge, military ID, airliner ID?)
12 military dog tags
13. A small caliber pistol ( he would never show this in the plane due to the decompression risk, but it certainly would be important on the ground or in emergencies)

This is a very fascinating debate what happened to his bones no one ever found them it wasnt like someone would try to hide his body either. Does anyone else think he had a partner or partners in crime think about it to be able to pull this off by himself seems abit far fetched to me.

It's often said that robbery is rarely a solitary crime. There is always more than one person.

In DB Cooper's case, these potentially exist:

1. Whoever conceived of the plan originally and gave it to cooper.
2. Who ever potentially "contracted" cooper
3. Whoever assisted Cooper in "practice jumps"
4. Coopers "getaway" pilot or driver.
5. Whoever DB Cooper planned to have assist him in laundering or holding the money. (Coopers "bank")
6. Cooper's pre-jump family (who could even know, be assisting in keeping his identity secret)
7. Cooper's post-jump family
7. Prior criminal conspirators who helped in previous jobs.
8. Post jump criminal conspirators who helped Cooper in jobs after the jump.
9. Coopers "backup jumper" (understudy if you will). Perhaps Richard McCoy was this person.
10 I also find it interesting that nobody thinks that Cooper could have an associate ONBOARD the plane with him. It only costs the price of a plane ticket.
11. Or that Cooper could have a person on the ground crew that assisted him.

It's often said that robbery is rarely a solitary crime. There is always more than one person.

In DB Cooper's case, these potentially exist:

1. Whoever conceived of the plan originally and gave it to cooper.
2. Who ever potentially "contracted" cooper
3. Whoever assisted Cooper in "practice jumps"
4. Coopers "getaway" pilot or driver.
5. Whoever DB Cooper planned to have assist him in laundering or holding the money. (Coopers "bank")
6. Cooper's pre-jump family (who could even know, be assisting in keeping his identity secret)
7. Cooper's post-jump family
7. Prior criminal conspirators who helped in previous jobs.
8. Post jump criminal conspirators who helped Cooper in jobs after the jump.
9. Coopers "backup jumper" (understudy if you will). Perhaps Richard McCoy was this person.
10 I also find it interesting that nobody thinks that Cooper could have an associate ONBOARD the plane with him. It only costs the price of a plane ticket.
11. Or that Cooper could have a person on the ground crew that assisted him.

All of those sound very plausible and interesting points to be honest it would explain alot I think people didnt believe it because they figured he was doing it alone. To cover all of those angles would have taken more then one person,it wouldnt have taken much to launder that cash if he had the right partners behind him,and the fact he had a specififc drop off point in mind it would make alot of sense that someone would be their waiting for him.

This guy claims he's solved it: http://www.adventurebooksofseattle.com/upcomingtitles.htm

For me, the fact that none of the bills from the ransom have ever turned up in circulation anywhere points strongly to Cooper either having perished in the jump or else having died shortly after the hijack somehow.

But then again, I can't say that for sure because I don't know how reliable our tracking system for bill serial numbers is, it would seem to me that if the bills are in a remote part of the country flowing back and forth between Mom and Pop stores you might not know it.

Then again, this case heired in 1989, does anyone know if any of the ransom bills have appeared since then? Or does anyone have inside knowledge of how our tracking sytem for bill serial numbers works and how possible it is they may have slipped through the cracks the past 35 years or so?

9. Coopers "backup jumper" (understudy if you will). Perhaps Richard McCoy was this person.


Good call Mastermind

I have always felt that Cooper and McCoy knew each other before both of the jumps

Then again, this case heired in 1989, does anyone know if any of the ransom bills have appeared since then? Or does anyone have inside knowledge of how our tracking sytem for bill serial numbers works and how possible it is they may have slipped through the cracks the past 35 years or so?

The serial numbers were photographed before the bills were turned over, unbeknownst to the hijacker, whoever he may have been. The only definite Cooper loot that ever turned up was never in circulation--it was found by an 8-year-old boy on a beach in Oregon or something, some years ago--resulting in some trouble when they came forward as the boy's father was wanted by the law. None has been known to have turned up before or since, and neither has a body, but in such conditions, human remains would disappear very quickly.

The serial numbers were photographed before the bills were turned over, unbeknownst to the hijacker, whoever he may have been. The only definite Cooper loot that ever turned up was never in circulation--it was found by an 8-year-old boy on a beach in Oregon or something, some years ago--resulting in some trouble when they came forward as the boy's father was wanted by the law. None has been known to have turned up before or since, and neither has a body, but in such conditions, human remains would disappear very quickly.

Yes I knew about the portion of it that had been found buried, but I just wondered if anymore of it had surfaced since the show originally heired in 1989. Because as of then it had not.

Sometimes I have to wonder if the rest of it was there as well and they just didn't dig deep enough. I mean if Cooper was alive why bury some of it? To throw the authorities off? If he didn't know the bills had been photgraphed why do that? Course he sounded like a pretty shrewd fellow he may have suspected they would do that.

Because of none of the money turning up in circulaiton anywhere, I'm still leaning towards Cooper either perishing in the jump or in the wilderness. When you think about it just about anything could have happpened. His parachute could have malfunctioned, an animal could have attacked him, or he simply could have froze to death.

Granted, he didn't sound like the type of guy to be unprepared. But even the best layed plans can go wrong.

I have read many of the entries on this thread after being directed here by a guy at the Twilight Zone forum.

There is a new book out on the Cooper case: Into The Blast - The True Story of D.B. Cooper. It presents a very solid case that Kenneth Christiansen, former paratrooper and an employee of Northwest Airlines, was in fact the famous skyjacker. It was written by Skipp Porteous of Sherlock Investigations, New York City and yours truly.

Before we go any further with that, let me answer some of the questions I've already seen here.

Did Cooper have help on the ground?

Yes. It was his lifelong friend and co-worker at the airline, referred to in the book as 'Mike Watson'. He is still alive and lives in Sequim, WA. They used an Airstream trailer and a station wagon purchased at a bank sale a month before the crime. Watson, we believe, drove Kenny to Portland and then waited for him near Woodland, WA at Paradise Point State Park. The trailer and station wagon were sold shortly after the hijacking.

How come they didn't find any of the money in circulation?

Answer: Larry Carr, the current FBI Special Agent in charge of the case, admitted in a 2008 radio interview (see DB Cooper Wiki page) that most banks gave up checking their incoming 20's within the first three months. Why? The list issued to banks was 34 pages long, with several rows of numbers per page, and the numbers were NON-sequential. It was a huge headache for the banks. There is more about this in the book, especially on how Kenny laundered the money. One big myth about the Cooper case is that the Treasury Department was checking all incoming bills against the numbers on the hijack list. (businesses, individuals, and banks send in thousands a day for replacement). This is not true. The only reason the Vancouver money was linked to the hijacking was because it was turned in to the FBI instead of Treasury.

Has any money from the ransom been found except for the $5,800 on the Columbia River in 1980?

Yes. Two thousand in twenties was found in a pile of stumps on Christiansen's old property in Bonney Lake, WA about five years after he died. This would equal exactly one bundle of the ransom money. It was discovered after the new owners sold off the trees to a logging company. They turned in this money to their bank, who in turn sent it in to Treasury for replacement. No one at Treasury checked the numbers. They simply verified the bills were genuine and issued a check (about $1,500) for the bills that could still be read. Then they destroyed the bills. The entire story is covered in the book.

As far as the $5,800 found in Vancouver at Tena Bar, this is how we think it got there:

When stewardess Tina Mucklow brought back the parachutes, and then the money bag, Cooper took out two or three bundles of the money and offered it to her. She said no, of course. Then Mucklow says he stuffed these bundles into his pockets, instead of back into the bag. Three bundles would equal $6,000. We believe this is the money found on the river, and that it was tossed into the river after he landed, as a red herring. Of course, Cooper didn't figure on it taking nine years to find it. He was hoping they would find it sooner and perhaps lead the cops to think he had died in the river.

This article in the New York Magazine from 2007 (http://nymag.com/news/features/39593/index4.html)tells how Christiansen first became a suspect. Of course, Skipp and I discovered a lot more about him since that article came out.

The book is at Amazon in paperback and for the Kindle, but you can also download the entire PDF free at our homepage (http://www.adventurebooksofseattle.com). All thirty-two photographs and images are included. I did this in the hope we could discover even more about Christiansen, that maybe someone would read it and it would jog their memory.

After the book was released in May of this year, we took a lot of heat from so-called DB Cooper 'expert' Galen Cook, who claims William Gossett from Ogden, UT was the hijacker and not Kenny. I took him to task with an article at MSNBC/Newsvine, complete with cartoons (http://adventurebooks.newsvine.com/_news/2010/06/14/4503142-a-challenge-to-db-cooper-expert-galen-cook-why-hes-wrong-and-were-right-about-skyjackers-true-identity). (insert evil laugh here) Well...Cook deserved this treatment, trust me.

If you have any questions about any of this, you can download our Media Fact Sheet or Press Release at the AB website listed above. :cool:

I wanted to address this comment before I go:

'I have always felt that Cooper and McCoy knew each other before both of the jumps...'

No. McCoy was just a copycat. The book 'The Real McCoy' tried to name Richard McCoy as Cooper. Here is what happened: McCoy's widow successfully sued the publishers of that book, since she was able to prove that McCoy was NOT in Washington or Oregon during the week of the hijacking. He was having Thanksgiving with his family. The publishers had to pay, plus the book was pulled from circulation. However, you can still obtain leftovers or used copies via Amazon once in a while. And there is one very good reason why McCoy wasn't the hijacker: At the time of the Cooper hijacking, McCoy was only 29 years old. Every witness who saw Cooper said he was definitely in his mid-to-late 40's.

Wow - thanks for the awesome post Robert! I've got the pdf of the book "saved as a favorite", now it's just a matter of finding the time to read it.

Very interesting theory about the $6,000 that was found; and also about why the money supposedly "never turned up in circulation".

I have read many of the entries on this thread after being directed here by a guy at the Twilight Zone forum.

There is a new book out on the Cooper case: Into The Blast - The True Story of D.B. Cooper. It presents a very solid case that Kenneth Christiansen, former paratrooper and an employee of Northwest Airlines, was in fact the famous skyjacker. It was written by Skipp Porteous of Sherlock Investigations, New York City and yours truly.

Before we go any further with that, let me answer some of the questions I've already seen here.

Did Cooper have help on the ground?

Yes. It was his lifelong friend and co-worker at the airline, referred to in the book as 'Mike Watson'. He is still alive and lives in Sequim, WA. They used an Airstream trailer and a station wagon purchased at a bank sale a month before the crime. Watson, we believe, drove Kenny to Portland and then waited for him near Woodland, WA at Paradise Point State Park. The trailer and station wagon were sold shortly after the hijacking.

How come they didn't find any of the money in circulation?

Answer: Larry Carr, the current FBI Special Agent in charge of the case, admitted in a 2008 radio interview (see DB Cooper Wiki page) that most banks gave up checking their incoming 20's within the first three months. Why? The list issued to banks was 34 pages long, with several rows of numbers per page, and the numbers were NON-sequential. It was a huge headache for the banks. There is more about this in the book, especially on how Kenny laundered the money. One big myth about the Cooper case is that the Treasury Department was checking all incoming bills against the numbers on the hijack list. (businesses, individuals, and banks send in thousands a day for replacement). This is not true. The only reason the Vancouver money was linked to the hijacking was because it was turned in to the FBI instead of Treasury.

Has any money from the ransom been found except for the $5,800 on the Columbia River in 1980?

Yes. Two thousand in twenties was found in a pile of stumps on Christiansen's old property in Bonney Lake, WA about five years after he died. This would equal exactly one bundle of the ransom money. It was discovered after the new owners sold off the trees to a logging company. They turned in this money to their bank, who in turn sent it in to Treasury for replacement. No one at Treasury checked the numbers. They simply verified the bills were genuine and issued a check (about $1,500) for the bills that could still be read. Then they destroyed the bills. The entire story is covered in the book.

As far as the $5,800 found in Vancouver at Tena Bar, this is how we think it got there:

When stewardess Tina Mucklow brought back the parachutes, and then the money bag, Cooper took out two or three bundles of the money and offered it to her. She said no, of course. Then Mucklow says he stuffed these bundles into his pockets, instead of back into the bag. Three bundles would equal $6,000. We believe this is the money found on the river, and that it was tossed into the river after he landed, as a red herring. Of course, Cooper didn't figure on it taking nine years to find it. He was hoping they would find it sooner and perhaps lead the cops to think he had died in the river.

This article in the New York Magazine from 2007 (http://nymag.com/news/features/39593/index4.html)tells how Christiansen first became a suspect. Of course, Skipp and I discovered a lot more about him since that article came out.

The book is at Amazon in paperback and for the Kindle, but you can also download the entire PDF free at our homepage (http://www.adventurebooksofseattle.com). All thirty-two photographs and images are included. I did this in the hope we could discover even more about Christiansen, that maybe someone would read it and it would jog their memory.

After the book was released in May of this year, we took a lot of heat from so-called DB Cooper 'expert' Galen Cook, who claims William Gossett from Ogden, UT was the hijacker and not Kenny. I took him to task with an article at MSNBC/Newsvine, complete with cartoons (http://adventurebooks.newsvine.com/_news/2010/06/14/4503142-a-challenge-to-db-cooper-expert-galen-cook-why-hes-wrong-and-were-right-about-skyjackers-true-identity). (insert evil laugh here) Well...Cook deserved this treatment, trust me.

If you have any questions about any of this, you can download our Media Fact Sheet or Press Release at the AB website listed above. :cool:

I wanted to address this comment before I go:



No. McCoy was just a copycat. The book 'The Real McCoy' tried to name Richard McCoy as Cooper. Here is what happened: McCoy's widow successfully sued the publishers of that book, since she was able to prove that McCoy was NOT in Washington or Oregon during the week of the hijacking. He was having Thanksgiving with his family. The publishers had to pay, plus the book was pulled from circulation. However, you can still obtain leftovers or used copies via Amazon once in a while. And there is one very good reason why McCoy wasn't the hijacker: At the time of the Cooper hijacking, McCoy was only 29 years old. Every witness who saw Cooper said he was definitely in his mid-to-late 40's.

Actually, in the case of Richard McCoy, this actually what happened:

Lawsuits over Cooper allegations

1991 saw the publication of D. B. Cooper: The Real McCoy, by FBI agents Bernie Rhodes and Russell P. Calame. Both authors investigated McCoy's skyjacking case, and their book posits that Cooper and McCoy were really the same person. They cited similar methods of hijacking, and a tie and Brigham Young University medallion with McCoy's initials on the back left on the plane by Cooper.

After the book's publication, McCoy's widow filed suit against the book's authors, publisher and her former attorney, Thomas S. Taylor. She claimed they misrepresented her involvement in the hijacking for which McCoy was convicted, and also misrepresented later events from interviews done with Taylor in the 1970s. She sought an injunction against publication and distribution of the book.[11]

During court proceedings, it was revealed that McCoy's widow was deeply involved in the hijacking. Her request for an injunction to prohibit further sales of the book was denied. However, an injunction to prohibit the sale of movie rights to the book — conditional upon the movie including references to four specific allegations in the book that she protested — was granted.[12] Mrs. McCoy accepted a settlement in 1994.[13]

Here are the references for above information:
# ^ Associated Press (1992-01-18). "Widow of Man Linked in Book to Skyjacker D. B. Cooper Sues Authors, Provo Attorney". Deseret News: p. B5.
# ^ Funk, Marianne (1992-02-21). "McCoy's Widow Admits Helping in '72 Hijacking". Deseret News: p. B4.
# ^ Funk, Marianne (1994-01-19). "Hijacker's Widow to Gain $120,000". Deseret News: p. B2.

I read Into The Blast. The thing that makes no sense to me is why Christiansen, a Northwest employee, would choose to skyjack a Northwest flight. Seems really risky to me. Why not hijack a flight on, maybe, any other airline other than Northwest?

I've always thought McCoy was Cooper, and since he was killed shortly after the Cooper hijacking, that was the reason why none of the bills turned up in circulation. McCoy/Cooper probably hid the money and never got the chance to retrieve them.

Part of me would have a great laugh if the Christensen theory proved to be true. This man was so laid back, yet secretive. Guess we're still all holding out for evidence of a more concrete nature!:) I did really enjoy the book, however.

I've had contact with Christensen's brother. He seems like a very personable gentleman. Apparently the Discovery Channel is airing a special based on the "Into the Blast" material.

1.After the landing, it is not crazy to assume he survived, since we have several stories of people surviving the woods with similar clothing and lack of tools. One point that has to be noted is that nobody saw Cooper Jump, so we don't know what was done before the jump or what he had in his pockets or in that briefcase.

2. A lot of Coopers Survival post landing depends on whether he had an accomplice. One theory that has been postulated is that DB Cooper may have had some sort of homing device in his pocket. Such a device would seem logical and not that difficult to obtain for a military person. The device could range from the crude to the high tech. Such a device could easily be spotted from a plane. Heck DB Cooper wouldn't even need to survive, either!. The homing device would lead the accomplice right were the money landed along with Cooper's Body. The accomplice could take the money and leave Coopers body.

3. If you really think about it the crux of the Cooper didn't survive is that Cooper's chute never opened. I think a lot of people believe that if Cooper's chute had opened Cooper's survival chances could be greater.

4. Again, you have to wonder why Cooper decided to jump then and there unless he had a feeling he could have survived.

5. I believe there is a stuntman who attempted to do the DB Cooper jump and survived. Anyone know the story and the jumper.

6. As crazy as it sounds, keep in mind that nobody ever saw DB Cooper jump. It's assumed that's what happened. While I don;t believe this theory, there have been some people who believe that DB Cooper never jumped and simply hid on the plane and walked out like everyone else. Very "Inside Man" like. :crazy:

While I believe Cooper died on his jump, I don;t believe the possibility of surviving should be ruled out so directly. Until someone can identify Cooper I'm under the assumption that DB Cooper is a wanted man.

But what is more probable? You're pointing to possibilities that don't really have a basis for a conclusion based on lack of evidence. What we know is that this was a man that didn't seem young and he did jump (even though it wasn't seen the theory that he walked out when the plane landed is bogus....especially when money turned up in a remote area where he thought to have vanished) from the plane in a rainstorm in complete darkness in a vast area. Add to the fact that none of the money has ever turned up in circulation and that there were no reports of seeing a man of his description after the incident leads one to believe that he most likely perished once he made that jump...or very shortly after, which is what I believe. Perhaps an accomplice could have been involved, but that idea seems so far-fetched it probably wasn't even pursued.

I still think McCoy was Cooper. I believe he lost the money during the "DB Cooper" hijacking, which is why he committed a near identical crime a few months later. It makes the most sense for McCoy to have been Cooper, IMO.

I'm not dead set on the McCoy being Cooper theory. But I would say that since McCoy survived his jump, it definitely supports the idea that Cooper survived his jump.

I'm not dead set on the McCoy being Cooper theory. But I would say that since McCoy survived his jump, it definitely supports the idea that Cooper survived his jump.

The biggest piece of evidence for McCoy being Cooper, IMO was the fact that none of the Cooper money has ever been found outside of some $5,000 on a beach. Which lends credit to the theory that Cooper lost the money during the jump. Which is why McCoy would want to do it all over again, with an identical MO. And items left on the Cooper flight were ID'ed by McCoy's family as belonging to him.

What is your guys' opinion on what became of DB Cooper?

I think he survived the jump, if he picked one of the three parachutes that would open instead of the one that was stitched closed. He must have planted the money discovered in order to throw authorities off, making it seem like he did not survive the jump. As for the rest of the money which has never turned up in circulation, I see these as possibilities:

1) DB Cooper was a drug dealer, or involved in some sort of valuable antiques or artifacts business, exchanged the money he got on the plane with bills or some valuable objects from a business partner, killed that partner, and destroyed the money.
2) He altered the serial numbers on the bills to be able to use them.
3) He went to some foreign country to spend the money.

But if he died, I believe he lost the money later discovered while descending, and landed with a crash, killing him, maybe in the mountains or a lake which is a common unvisited area or geographically unfamiliar, which could account for his remains never being found.



I have a theory on this:
I just watched this this morning in UM on Lifetime. And the stewardess mentions after he told her to go to the cockpit and not look back at him she glanced back as she was closing the curtain. And saw "he looked like he was trying something to his sides". What if he was tying something but untying something?

Remember he had on a long black raincoat. What if as some other people have theorized he had other things he need to survive the the jump- i.e. a jump suit or other warm clothing not bulky enough to be seen under his coat tied to his or maybe even he had pockets sewn into the inside of his coat for a lighter, matches, compass etc.

And who knows what may have been in the attaché case. it could have had a false bottom or maybe even the explosive devise wasn't even real but was actually comprised of the items he needed for his jump?

I wonder if he separated the money and put it on different parachutes including the one sewn up? And that was the money found? I think it possible since none of the chutes were found on the plane were they?

As for the other hijacker being D.B Cooper the ages are to far off. But I do believe he could have survived. and maybe altered the bills but since they really weren't checked for closely they could have been in circulation and we would never know.

I have a theory on this:
I just watched this this morning in UM on Lifetime. And the stewardess mentions after he told her to go to the cockpit and not look back at him she glanced back as she was closing the curtain. And saw "he looked like he was trying something to his sides". What if he was tying something but untying something?

Remember he had on a long black raincoat. What if as some other people have theorized he had other things he need to survive the the jump- i.e. a jump suit or other warm clothing not bulky enough to be seen under his coat tied to his or maybe even he had pockets sewn into the inside of his coat for a lighter, matches, compass etc.

And who knows what may have been in the attaché case. it could have had a false bottom or maybe even the explosive devise wasn't even real but was actually comprised of the items he needed for his jump?

I wonder if he separated the money and put it on different parachutes including the one sewn up? And that was the money found? I think it possible since none of the chutes were found on the plane were they?

As for the other hijacker being D.B Cooper the ages are to far off. But I do believe he could have survived. and maybe altered the bills but since they really weren't checked for closely they could have been in circulation and we would never know.

If your argument is that Cooper COULD have survived his jump, I don't think you'll find much argument that he certainly COULD have - the question is whether or not he did.

Given that none of the money has ever turned up in circulation (and only some of it has ever been found), I don't think he survived for very long, if at all. You can't really alter serial numbers on a bill in any way that would be passable and while you're certainly right that a few bills could have slipped into circulation, it stretches the point beyond breaking to presume they all did.

McCoy and Cooper look vaguely similar (eyewitness ID being so suspect, it's hard to accept or dismiss it out of hand) and the similar MO's are suggestive, so call me on the fence: I'm just not sure one way or the other.

I think Cooper probably died. Probably from the fall.

The far more interesting question to me isn't whether or not he lived (because I'm sure he didn't) but why he did it in the first place. I mean he had to have talked to someone about it, someone has to know why.

I think he could have survived.

Question for everyone here: The whole "money has never been in circulation" bit. How does anyone really know that? How do the banks and government even track that kind of stuff, especially in the 70s? I mean I suppose now there is technology, I don't know (hence why I am asking for opinions and input) but it just seems strange to me. What if he slowly disbursed the money all across the country and overseas, etc? What if the money was placed in a bank account or safe deposit box in another country and slowly used? Who would even be checking that? And even if people were checking, you can walk into a cheque cashing place and exchange money or purchase money orders without even giving your name. I don't know, I'm just wondering how anyone can be sure that the stolen money was never used.....

I think he could have survived.

Question for everyone here: The whole "money has never been in circulation" bit. How does anyone really know that? How do the banks and government even track that kind of stuff, especially in the 70s? I mean I suppose now there is technology, I don't know (hence why I am asking for opinions and input) but it just seems strange to me. What if he slowly disbursed the money all across the country and overseas, etc? What if the money was placed in a bank account or safe deposit box in another country and slowly used? Who would even be checking that? And even if people were checking, you can walk into a cheque cashing place and exchange money or purchase money orders without even giving your name. I don't know, I'm just wondering how anyone can be sure that the stolen money was never used.....

If he used it anywhere, (unless he only used it overseas) it would eventually get back to a Federal Reserve Branch. If it's never been deposited at the Fed, then it's never been used. Either a) he used it only in another country and it never ever made it back to the US, or b) it's sitting somewhere unused.

That's essentially how you'd be able to tell.

I think he could have survived.

Question for everyone here: The whole "money has never been in circulation" bit. How does anyone really know that? How do the banks and government even track that kind of stuff, especially in the 70s? I mean I suppose now there is technology, I don't know (hence why I am asking for opinions and input) but it just seems strange to me. What if he slowly disbursed the money all across the country and overseas, etc? What if the money was placed in a bank account or safe deposit box in another country and slowly used? Who would even be checking that? And even if people were checking, you can walk into a cheque cashing place and exchange money or purchase money orders without even giving your name. I don't know, I'm just wondering how anyone can be sure that the stolen money was never used.....

Back then, they would manually compare the serial number against a list - while most larger banks would have a list, they may or may not actively check; the best chance of it popping up would be at a Federal Reserve - and like badcompany said, if it is in circulation, it would wind up there.

But what is more probable? You're pointing to possibilities that don't really have a basis for a conclusion based on lack of evidence. What we know is that this was a man that didn't seem young and he did jump (even though it wasn't seen the theory that he walked out when the plane landed is bogus....especially when money turned up in a remote area where he thought to have vanished) from the plane in a rainstorm in complete darkness in a vast area. Add to the fact that none of the money has ever turned up in circulation and that there were no reports of seeing a man of his description after the incident leads one to believe that he most likely perished once he made that jump...or very shortly after, which is what I believe. Perhaps an accomplice could have been involved, but that idea seems so far-fetched it probably wasn't even pursued.

I would love to believe that DB survived BUT looking at the way he was dressed, and the possibility that he didnt have any food , water extra clothing etc , then taking into account what you mention about him jumping out into a rainstorm in the darkness - the likelihood starts to vanish . Even if he landed on the ground alive he had a tall order regarding survival chances......

The money never turning up in circulation is a really revealing detail !

I think he could have survived.

Question for everyone here: The whole "money has never been in circulation" bit. How does anyone really know that? How do the banks and government even track that kind of stuff, especially in the 70s? I mean I suppose now there is technology, I don't know (hence why I am asking for opinions and input) but it just seems strange to me. What if he slowly disbursed the money all across the country and overseas, etc? What if the money was placed in a bank account or safe deposit box in another country and slowly used? Who would even be checking that? And even if people were checking, you can walk into a cheque cashing place and exchange money or purchase money orders without even giving your name. I don't know, I'm just wondering how anyone can be sure that the stolen money was never used.....

What you say is very plausible but do remember that back in the early 70s this case was big news and the reward offered was pretty huge and offcourse a couple of newspapers also offered big rewards around 1973 to anyone who handed in notes with serial numbers from the DB stash so I suppose lots of folks were checking their money to try and get their hands on the reward ........and nothing came from this ........

I have read many of the entries on this thread
No. McCoy was just a copycat. The book 'The Real McCoy' tried to name Richard McCoy as Cooper. Here is what happened: McCoy's widow successfully sued the publishers of that book, since she was able to prove that McCoy was NOT in Washington or Oregon during the week of the hijacking. He was having Thanksgiving with his family. The publishers had to pay, plus the book was pulled from circulation. However, you can still obtain leftovers or used copies via Amazon once in a while. And there is one very good reason why McCoy wasn't the hijacker: At the time of the Cooper hijacking, McCoy was only 29 years old. Every witness who saw Cooper said he was definitely in his mid-to-late 40's.

Sorry, but bold face type or not, your version is completely inaccurate. Six or seven years ago when I posted regularly on this forum we had a marathon DB Cooper thread in which I referred to the "Real McCoy" book frequently. I decided to call one of the co-authors, Russell Calame. He spoke to me for a half hour and cleared up many of the misconceptions, including the lawsuit by Karen McCoy. She didn't prove anything regarding McCoy's whereabouts. Calame said his lawyers had her on the ropes throughout her testimony. Karen McCoy's principal concern was to avoid a movie being made based on the book. She wanted to spare the family the inevitable attention and scrutiny a movie would bring. The book was relatively obscure. Calame and co-author Bernie Rhodes were older retired FBI types and were exhausted after so many years researching the book. They had no intentions of making a movie. So the suit ended rather tamely. I forget all the specifics, although I have them written down somewhere. The verdict Karen McCoy won was largely based on unethical matters by a former legal representative. Somehow the doubters of McCoy as Cooper have used that suit to proclaim the connection was proven false, even if nothing of the sort played out in the courtroom.

* McCoy was a wiry hardened 29 year old with a receding hairline. He looked every bit of 40. The book jacket of Calame's book demonstrates the striking similarity of McCoy to the Cooper sketch

* The FBI at various points has tried to place McCoy in Provo with his family, or in Los Angeles performing Utah Air National Guard duty. I decided to call the Utah Air National Guard. They literally laughed at me when I asked if national guard duties could have been held in Los Angeles during a Thanksgiving holiday. "No, I guarantee that didn't happen." The FBI now curiously backs away from the Los Angeles claim. LOL.

* The book proved that Richard McCoy made a strange and out of character drive from Provo to Las Vegas in the early morning hours of the Cooper episode. More than anything, that event identifies McCoy as Cooper. He was not a gambler. He tried to deny making the trip. Meanwhile, credit card receipts place him along the way, along with a collect phone call from the Tropicana Hotel back to McCoy's house the night following the Cooper event. The Tropicana was the closest hotel to the airport at that time. There was also record of a trial run a couple of weeks earlier, when McCoy stayed at the Westward Ho on the Strip, on the same day of the week as the Cooper event. The mileage on McCoy's car was checked and the deviance from his normal driving activity was virtually identical to the round trip distance from Provo to Las Vegas and back. There was no activity on McCoy's credit card for more than a day following the gas receipts to Las Vegas, and no record of a hotel room, unlike weeks earlier, and as if he vaporized. Far more logically, McCoy was making his way back to Las Vegas after jumping out of that plane but losing the vast majority of the money. He was prepared for everything but the weight and security of the cash during the jump. Hence, the scattered bills that eventually turned up. Once McCoy got back, he agonized at getting away with it but losing the cash during the jump, and schemed to do it again. He decided that all the effort of covering his tracks toward Las Vegas was not worth it, in fact too much of a complication, so the second time he parachuted almost within sight of his home. He nearly got away with that one, other than bragging of the potential of the jump to a close friend who tipped the FBI

* McCoy was a broke college student but somehow could afford to take the family to North Carolina not long after the Cooper event. That jives with the notion that McCoy stuffed a few packets of bills in his pocket before the jump. That was reported by the stewardesses. Cooper tried to tip them. Little did McCoy realize that the money in his pocket would be all he ended up with.

* No body was found because the parachute did its job. Wow, what a concept, a successful skydive. I don't mean to be cruel but the posts asserting that Cooper died in the jump demonstrate a remarkable ignorance toward basic probability. Rain and wind? Big deal. Somehow the mind allows us to play tricks and turn a 99+% likelihood of success into probable failure. Unbelievable. Anybody who asserts Cooper died in the jump, I wish they helped make the daily betting odds. Talk about a party.

* The FBI has no credibility on the matter. They scurry around digging up every pot hole for Jimmy Hoffa. I've followed that case since I was a kid. Eventually they may discover the correct clump. It speaks to their scattergun nature. You've got to stop assigning great weight to anything they say. It's guesswork with a badge.

* This is simply not a complicated case, not an unsolved mystery. There's an industry devoted to the bizarre versions, the ones that exclude McCoy. That played out in the long thread years ago on this site, and it still dominates on the internet. I mentioned a month or so ago that the people who hover over the DB Cooper Wikipedia page won't even allow the Richard McCoy info to be posted, specifically the mention of that strange wee hour drive to Las Vegas. That drive just happened to be in the hours before the Cooper leap. Not a week earlier, or one day later. Perfectly slotted. Yet it's all a big coincidence, along with the same guy pulling off a near-identical skyjacking several months later.

If he fled to another country, particularly one that used the US Dollar as an official currency, there's a decent chance that the bills would never have shown up in the US.

Here's a list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollarization#U.S._dollar

Of course, he could have lost the money in the jump. I think he survived. He put too much planning in to have jumped as unprepared as the police seem to think he was.

What you say is very plausible but do remember that back in the early 70s this case was big news and the reward offered was pretty huge and offcourse a couple of newspapers also offered big rewards around 1973 to anyone who handed in notes with serial numbers from the DB stash so I suppose lots of folks were checking their money to try and get their hands on the reward ........and nothing came from this ........

But what if he didn't spend the money right away. Let's say he tucked it away and waited 5-10 years before doing anything with it. How hard would banks have been looking for those serial numbers by the time 1980 rolled around?

If he fled to another country, particularly one that used the US Dollar as an official currency, there's a decent chance that the bills would never have shown up in the US.

Here's a list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollarization#U.S._dollar

Of course, he could have lost the money in the jump. I think he survived. He put too much planning in to have jumped as unprepared as the police seem to think he was.

I definitely agree with you about his odds of surviving the jump. Regardless of what happened after he landed, LE seems to think he was just some rube who thought jumping from a plane would be a day at that park. I think he was far more prepared than they've been willing to admit.

But what if he didn't spend the money right away. Let's say he tucked it away and waited 5-10 years before doing anything with it. How hard would banks have been looking for those serial numbers by the time 1980 rolled around?

Banks might not have been, but the Fed still would have checked the serial number before destroying the bill.

If he fled to another country, particularly one that used the US Dollar as an official currency, there's a decent chance that the bills would never have shown up in the US.

Here's a list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollarization#U.S._dollar

Of course, he could have lost the money in the jump. I think he survived. He put too much planning in to have jumped as unprepared as the police seem to think he was.

Virtually all of those countries adopted the dollar decades after the jump. And the bills would still have turned up, because eventually they'd still end up at a federal reserve - admittedly, it might be years, even decades later, but they would.

So does Federal Reserve literally check every single bill? Maybe with today's technology, but I have a hard time believing that there was a department or person sitting there getting paid to review each bill as it came in at the time.

However, if LE is CERTAIN the money was never in circulation, that leads me to believe more than ever that Cooper really was McCoy....the money somehow got lost, but he knew he could pull it off, hence the motivation to try it again a few months later.

Virtually all of those countries adopted the dollar decades after the jump. And the bills would still have turned up, because eventually they'd still end up at a federal reserve - admittedly, it might be years, even decades later, but they would.


Not virtually all. Some though. Bermuda and Turks and Caicos switched in 1971 when the British pound underwent decimalization. Panama has used the US dollar since it became a country in 1904. BVI has used the dollar since 1959. Micronesia and Palau since 1944. Liberia used it until 1982. You get the point. Admittedly, in the most attractive of these countries, the relationship and ex-pat situation is such that some of the money would have made its way back to the US.

There's also a black market use of the US dollar in many countries, past and present.

It is POSSIBLE (although not terribly probable) that the money was used abroad and never caught.

Or, he could have lost it. Cash is heavy.

But what if he didn't spend the money right away. Let's say he tucked it away and waited 5-10 years before doing anything with it. How hard would banks have been looking for those serial numbers by the time 1980 rolled around?

That is another good and very interesting possibility you have suggested :) , funny enough if you think about it- when that bit of money was discovered in 1980 they found that some of it had been removed and was unaccounted for meaning someone may have removed it from the bungle ..........this raises all sorts of possiblitiies since hydrologists said it was unlikely to have been removed while being washed away , so the intriguing question is who took some money from that stash discovered in 1980 ?:violin:

I think Cooper probably died. Probably from the fall.

The far more interesting question to me isn't whether or not he lived (because I'm sure he didn't) but why he did it in the first place. I mean he had to have talked to someone about it, someone has to know why.

Aside from the money , its possible he did it for the thrill- just imagine it for a second like you were him -robbing Uncle Sam and parachuting into the wilderness with your illgotten gains ! :guitar: and then disappearing off to some banana republic in latin america and living the high life sipping pina colada with exotic women in your arm :love: - that sort of stuff. Its also possible this guy read comics and watched James Bong type movies and wanted to do something like fictional villains do and offcourse the notoriety of pulling something like that off .........:jar: :rock:

. I decided to call the Utah Air National Guard. They literally laughed at me when I asked if national guard duties could have been held in Los Angeles during a Thanksgiving holiday. "No, I guarantee that didn't happen." The FBI now curiously backs away from the Los Angeles claim. LOL.


* McCoy was a broke college student but somehow could afford to take the family to North Carolina not long after the Cooper event. That jives with the notion that McCoy stuffed a few packets of bills in his pocket before the jump. That was reported by the stewardesses. Cooper tried to tip them. Little did McCoy realize that the money in his pocket would be all he ended up with.

.

That bit about him possibly stuffing some bills in his pocket is interesting !:)
When that DB Cooper money was found in 1980 some of the money had been removed ( something along the lines of a few bundles) - could this this be the missing link ?

His Parachute FAILED He landed on the summit of Mount St. Helens, where his body was BLOWN TO SMITHEREENS whwn the Mountain Erupted on 5/18/80 :lol: :rofl: :rotflmao: :brent

His Parachute FAILED He landed on the summit of Mount St. Helens, where his body was BLOWN TO SMITHEREENS whwn the Mountain Erupted on 5/18/80 :lol: :rofl: :rotflmao: :brent

Regulus, that is the most absurd theory I've ever heard. Clearly he was a victim of the Green River Killer. :lol:

Oh, maybe we should make a thread of the most absurd ideas we can come up with to what happened to Dan "D. B." Cooper.

The Bureau has argued from the beginning that Cooper did not survive his jump.[85] "Diving into the wilderness without a plan, without the right equipment, in such terrible conditions, he probably never even got his 'chute open," said Carr.[6] Even if he did land safely, agents contend, survival in the mountainous terrain would have been all but impossible without an accomplice at a predetermined landing point, which would have required a precisely timed jump—necessitating, in turn, cooperation from the flight crew. There is no evidence that Cooper had any such help from the crew, nor any clear idea where he was when he jumped into the stormy, overcast darkness.[93]

This has been my stance on DB Cooper. Its almost impossible that he survived that jump.

The money was never spent I believe. The only mystery here is who this person is. At least we have DNA.

Sorry, but bold face type or not, your version is completely inaccurate. Six or seven years ago when I posted regularly on this forum we had a marathon DB Cooper thread in which I referred to the "Real McCoy" book frequently. I decided to call one of the co-authors, Russell Calame. He spoke to me for a half hour and cleared up many of the misconceptions, including the lawsuit by Karen McCoy. She didn't prove anything regarding McCoy's whereabouts. Calame said his lawyers had her on the ropes throughout her testimony. Karen McCoy's principal concern was to avoid a movie being made based on the book. She wanted to spare the family the inevitable attention and scrutiny a movie would bring. The book was relatively obscure. Calame and co-author Bernie Rhodes were older retired FBI types and were exhausted after so many years researching the book. They had no intentions of making a movie. So the suit ended rather tamely. I forget all the specifics, although I have them written down somewhere. The verdict Karen McCoy won was largely based on unethical matters by a former legal representative. Somehow the doubters of McCoy as Cooper have used that suit to proclaim the connection was proven false, even if nothing of the sort played out in the courtroom.

* McCoy was a wiry hardened 29 year old with a receding hairline. He looked every bit of 40. The book jacket of Calame's book demonstrates the striking similarity of McCoy to the Cooper sketch

* The FBI at various points has tried to place McCoy in Provo with his family, or in Los Angeles performing Utah Air National Guard duty. I decided to call the Utah Air National Guard. They literally laughed at me when I asked if national guard duties could have been held in Los Angeles during a Thanksgiving holiday. "No, I guarantee that didn't happen." The FBI now curiously backs away from the Los Angeles claim. LOL.

* The book proved that Richard McCoy made a strange and out of character drive from Provo to Las Vegas in the early morning hours of the Cooper episode. More than anything, that event identifies McCoy as Cooper. He was not a gambler. He tried to deny making the trip. Meanwhile, credit card receipts place him along the way, along with a collect phone call from the Tropicana Hotel back to McCoy's house the night following the Cooper event. The Tropicana was the closest hotel to the airport at that time. There was also record of a trial run a couple of weeks earlier, when McCoy stayed at the Westward Ho on the Strip, on the same day of the week as the Cooper event. The mileage on McCoy's car was checked and the deviance from his normal driving activity was virtually identical to the round trip distance from Provo to Las Vegas and back. There was no activity on McCoy's credit card for more than a day following the gas receipts to Las Vegas, and no record of a hotel room, unlike weeks earlier, and as if he vaporized. Far more logically, McCoy was making his way back to Las Vegas after jumping out of that plane but losing the vast majority of the money. He was prepared for everything but the weight and security of the cash during the jump. Hence, the scattered bills that eventually turned up. Once McCoy got back, he agonized at getting away with it but losing the cash during the jump, and schemed to do it again. He decided that all the effort of covering his tracks toward Las Vegas was not worth it, in fact too much of a complication, so the second time he parachuted almost within sight of his home. He nearly got away with that one, other than bragging of the potential of the jump to a close friend who tipped the FBI

* McCoy was a broke college student but somehow could afford to take the family to North Carolina not long after the Cooper event. That jives with the notion that McCoy stuffed a few packets of bills in his pocket before the jump. That was reported by the stewardesses. Cooper tried to tip them. Little did McCoy realize that the money in his pocket would be all he ended up with.

* No body was found because the parachute did its job. Wow, what a concept, a successful skydive. I don't mean to be cruel but the posts asserting that Cooper died in the jump demonstrate a remarkable ignorance toward basic probability. Rain and wind? Big deal. Somehow the mind allows us to play tricks and turn a 99+% likelihood of success into probable failure. Unbelievable. Anybody who asserts Cooper died in the jump, I wish they helped make the daily betting odds. Talk about a party.

* The FBI has no credibility on the matter. They scurry around digging up every pot hole for Jimmy Hoffa. I've followed that case since I was a kid. Eventually they may discover the correct clump. It speaks to their scattergun nature. You've got to stop assigning great weight to anything they say. It's guesswork with a badge.

* This is simply not a complicated case, not an unsolved mystery. There's an industry devoted to the bizarre versions, the ones that exclude McCoy. That played out in the long thread years ago on this site, and it still dominates on the internet. I mentioned a month or so ago that the people who hover over the DB Cooper Wikipedia page won't even allow the Richard McCoy info to be posted, specifically the mention of that strange wee hour drive to Las Vegas. That drive just happened to be in the hours before the Cooper leap. Not a week earlier, or one day later. Perfectly slotted. Yet it's all a big coincidence, along with the same guy pulling off a near-identical skyjacking several months later.

Yeah but what I didnt understand is why the Airline Stewardess didnt say whether or not it was the same man.

The Bureau has argued from the beginning that Cooper did not survive his jump.[85] "Diving into the wilderness without a plan, without the right equipment, in such terrible conditions, he probably never even got his 'chute open," said Carr.[6] Even if he did land safely, agents contend, survival in the mountainous terrain would have been all but impossible without an accomplice at a predetermined landing point, which would have required a precisely timed jump—necessitating, in turn, cooperation from the flight crew. There is no evidence that Cooper had any such help from the crew, nor any clear idea where he was when he jumped into the stormy, overcast darkness.[93]

This has been my stance on DB Cooper. Its almost impossible that he survived that jump.

The money was never spent I believe. The only mystery here is who this person is. At least we have DNA.

Since they now have D B Cooper`s DNA have they checked it against McCoy ?

While there is no reasonable doubt that McCoy committed the Denver hijacking, the FBI does not consider him a suspect in the Cooper case due to significant mismatches in his age (29) and description; a level of skydiving skill well above that thought to be possessed by the hijacker;[6] and credible evidence that McCoy was in Las Vegas on the day of the Seattle hijacking,[60] and at home in Utah the day after, having Thanksgiving dinner with his family.[123][144]

probalby not mccoy.

While there is no reasonable doubt that McCoy committed the Denver hijacking, the FBI does not consider him a suspect in the Cooper case due to significant mismatches in his age (29) and description; a level of skydiving skill well above that thought to be possessed by the hijacker;[6] and credible evidence that McCoy was in Las Vegas on the day of the Seattle hijacking,[60] and at home in Utah the day after, having Thanksgiving dinner with his family.[123][144]

probalby not mccoy.

Interesting stuff ! :)

So does Federal Reserve literally check every single bill? Maybe with today's technology, but I have a hard time believing that there was a department or person sitting there getting paid to review each bill as it came in at the time.

However, if LE is CERTAIN the money was never in circulation, that leads me to believe more than ever that Cooper really was McCoy....the money somehow got lost, but he knew he could pull it off, hence the motivation to try it again a few months later.

Why is that hard to believe? Serial numbers are recorded before the bill is destroyed, if not beforehand. Governments collect lots of information.

Since they now have D B Cooper`s DNA have they checked it against McCoy ?

Do they have DNA? I'm hard-pressed to see how there would be a viable sample, given that since the analysis didn't exist then, evidence (even if it did exist) wouldn't have been collected properly.

Do they have DNA? I'm hard-pressed to see how there would be a viable sample, given that since the analysis didn't exist then, evidence (even if it did exist) wouldn't have been collected properly.

They probably slapped together some physical evidence in the late going and held it, unsure of the value. It's possible they've compared it to McCoy and other suspects without a match.

By all accounts, the crime scene in the plane was handled very sloppily. That's a theme regardless of the suspect or angle supported by various books. Initially they ignored or discarded evidence, then went back to desperately rectify. Whatever they wound up with, it's a dubious connection to Cooper.

The tie and tie clasp left on the plane were identified by McCoy's relatives and friends as belonging to him. I believe that was mentioned earlier in this thread. Frankly, I'm still frustrated that we're dealing with minor league and basically irrelevant short threads like this when at one point this forum held the most extensive information on the internet, in terms of the McCoy connection and debate toward it...50+ pages. Unfortunately, that thread was sidetracked with Duane Weber's widow bickering with a pest troll.

The FBI investigation began long before McCoy skyjacked the second plane. That's critical to what followed. Lead investigator is in place. Opinions are formed. Assignments made. The theory embraced by top man Ralph Himmelsbach was that Cooper died during the jump. They couldn't find money or a body or any trace of Cooper so they assumed he died, even if that meant lack of faith in a parachute, a device with a fine track record. Guys are stupid and stubborn, particularly at that age and occupation. They've advanced through the ranks supremely confident of their judgment, and consider it verified and applauded upon promotion.

Candidly I wish a young woman would have been in charge from the outset, and someone with a background in probability. That's always the missing variable. It's the primary reason I stopped posting regularly on true crime sites. There simply aren't enough results, no testing of the theories. The .00002% nonsense is allowed to linger year after year equally weighted alongside the logical summations. For example, I read here recently that Cooper and McCoy knew each other. Yeah, they decided to flip for it. Who would go first. Don't worry, if you splatter I'll make up for it, and make sure nobody knows your identity. They might even think we're one in the same. Wouldn't that be a riot. Within the past week I've posted on many sports sites regarding the Aaron Hernandez situation. It seemed quite clear he had gotten away with gun crimes many times frequently, and didn't view the latest incident as much of an escalation. Hence the sloppiness. The sloppiness is irrelevant. He was sloppy previously and nothing happened. I was challenged and ridiculed on those sites, including by those proclaiming his outright innocence, a so-called witch hunt. But now we have a result. An apparent result. One that will be examined. Further incidents are coming to light, including a double murder in summer 2012. This site and the series Unsolved Mysteries unfortunately attached to too many cases in which a result will never surface, although I understand there have been several cases solved since I left this board.

Two camps:

* McCoy committed a virtually identical crime within months
* McCoy embarked on a long and unusual drive to Las Vegas within the time frame immediately preceding the Cooper flight, verified by credit card and phone records
* McCoy looks very similar to the Cooper composite
* Military friends of McCoy say he talked openly about the possibility of that type of skyjacking. Several say they thought about him in connection with the Cooper event, long before learning of his involvement with the second skyjacking
* Tie and tie clasp identified by McCoy's relatives and friends

Second camp:

* Stewardesses seem smart and reliable. They don't think it was McCoy
* Discrepancy over age. Cooper placed much older than McCoy's 29 years
* Discrepancy over eye color. The consensus of witness accounts don't align with McCoy's eye color
* McCoy and his wife and family insist he was home at Thanksgiving
* Physical evidence collected from plane apparently does not match McCoy. This is an assumption on my part, but it probably holds value. See earlier in this post.

At this point it becomes a weighting issue. And the tug of war has seen many shifts. Himmelsbach was strongly in the second camp. More than anything, that defined the investigation and how it unfolded. It's not complicated. Anyone he hires, or assigns, or promotes, is virtually guaranteed to hold the same philosophy and value system. It's indeed guesswork with a badge. I have no idea how so many people assign such credibility to the FBI. They don't always hide. The young FBI guy currently in charge of the DB Cooper case did a long interview on LDS radio a few years ago. It's available on the internet. There's no authority or commanding skill whatsoever. He guesses, and doesn't always get the facts straight. I wouldn't call it .00002 level, but certainly nearby.

When nearly two decades passed without resolution, the first camp began to assert itself. The Real McCoy book was published in the early '90s. "FBI, the Untold Stories" had an episode dealing with the McCoy connection. Likewise the two-hour program on Discovery Channel -- or similar -- that covered the case extensively and revealed the presence of the tie and tie clasp, including a picture.

Note that those programs have apparently vanished from the rotation. I certainly haven't seen them. The tug of war obviously reversed, with camp two resuming control. Could be due to advances in physical evidence, and faith in old samples. Regardless, that side is simply wrong. Well meaning but lousy instincts and inept weighting system, like the guys taking Aaron Hernandez' side recently.

It's always amusing that the loud persistent types occupy camp two. I've mentioned the group who oversee the Cooper Wikipedia page won't even allow the most relevant McCoy information to be posted. Talk about paranoid. Meanwhile, the supporters of the McCoy angle are relatively quiet. I might be the one exception, and I occasionally go years between posts. A couple of people who served with McCoy have contacted me on this site and elsewhere via personal message. They are convinced McCoy did it. Countless details. One of them posted a few times on this site, saying he had waited 40 years for the connection to be made. But he's not writing books or blabbing everywhere. Bizarre sells.

Do they have DNA? I'm hard-pressed to see how there would be a viable sample, given that since the analysis didn't exist then, evidence (even if it did exist) wouldn't have been collected properly.

Yes in several news interviews the FBI agent in charge of this case has said they now have a DNA profile of D B ; sure DNA analysis didnt exist in 1971 but the FBI stored the evidence securely over the years which is why they managed to get it. The main problem with getting DNA from evidence taken before the 1990`s is to do with the way the evidence was stored - evidence stored correctly in cold dry environments and with less exposure to air and moisture has a good change of yielding good DNA even if it is decades old ....... this reminds me of the 1977 Oklahoma girls scouts murders , in that case they had semen samples of the killer but they never could get a DNA profile because the evidence wasnt stored correctly ( in terms of preserving DNA ) hence they failed to get a DNA profile of the killer ...............

Respectfully snipped...

The .00002% nonsense is allowed to linger year after year equally weighted alongside the logical summations.

Let's be honest. It's because most people lack critical reasoning skills, so the garbage sells in books, TV, etc. You see it in spades on the web, but it's hardly confined there.

Yes in several news interviews the FBI agent in charge of this case has said they now have a DNA profile of D B ; sure DNA analysis didnt exist in 1971 but the FBI stored the evidence securely over the years which is why they managed to get it. The main problem with getting DNA from evidence taken before the 1990`s is to do with the way the evidence was stored - evidence stored correctly in cold dry environments and with less exposure to air and moisture has a good change of yielding good DNA even if it is decades old ....... this reminds me of the 1977 Oklahoma girls scouts murders , in that case they had semen samples of the killer but they never could get a DNA profile because the evidence wasnt stored correctly ( in terms of preserving DNA ) hence they failed to get a DNA profile of the killer ...............

I can almost guarantee that profile is useless. The chances the evidence wasn't contaminated in the first place are likely slight and the chances it wasn't further contaminated in storage are even more slight.

what i don't understand is that none of the bills ever have been recovered by the FBI/secret service. Its hard for me to accept he survived the jump, if he did, someone would of had to known. that this poor, or lower middle class guy suddenly got rich. He would of had to tell someone, and then that someone would of talked and so on. You don't survive this, and then keep it to yourself.

I think discovery show, did a special on this. Brad Melzers- decoded i think it was called. Prety interesting, they pointed the finger at a guy who worked for the airline, who was a man familiar with jumping. You would think you'd have to be. But I just don't buy him surviving, getting free from all the police surrounding. Even if he landed without injury, i am guesisng the water will be ice cold. He would of had to made himself a shelter, and fire. To survive the night.

Its like the whole alcaltrez escape. Those guys are dead without a doubt. Just again using common sense approach. All these guys were career criminals, arrested many times before. all of a sudden they stopped? They never talked to their families ever again? Not only that, but to have survived that trip in that makeshift raft. Is just too far. The raft broke up at sea, and then they were dead. u.s mysteries did a segment on this with professional guys, who had trouble getting the raft to go anywhere.
There was one fella who did escape, and made it to land. But he was so damaged from the cold water, he couldn't move. A couple kids found him on the streets, and he was then arrested.

I think we just need to take a common sense approach to these cases, and stop trying to look at it so closely for some hidden clues.

Search Google or this site for Ken / Kenny Christiansen / Christensen. There has been mention made of him here. While it's a fancifully crafted theory that left me entertained, there's no DNA match. I've corresponded with the brother of the proposed suspect. He strikes me as being an affable fellow, but there's far too much in the way of conjecture to take his claim seriously.

Brad Meltzer's show makes a compelling case for Kenny Peter Christiansen. http://www.history.com/shows/brad-meltzers-decoded/videos/brad-meltzers-decoded-db-cooper

Even though I strongly believe in the possibility that Cooper could have survived, I do not firmly stand by it. I am willing to consider he may not have survived.

If he didn't, perhaps the FBI should have looked into the missing persons report database for any suspects who may fit his description. After all, he most likely is a veteran of some branch of the military, that could make it much easier to narrow it down.

Its like the whole alcaltrez escape. Those guys are dead without a doubt. Just again using common sense approach. All these guys were career criminals, arrested many times before. all of a sudden they stopped? They never talked to their families ever again? Not only that, but to have survived that trip in that makeshift raft. Is just too far. The raft broke up at sea, and then they were dead. u.s mysteries did a segment on this with professional guys, who had trouble getting the raft to go anywhere.
There was one fella who did escape, and made it to land. But he was so damaged from the cold water, he couldn't move. A couple kids found him on the streets, and he was then arrested.

I think we just need to take a common sense approach to these cases, and stop trying to look at it so closely for some hidden clues.

How do you know whether or not they talked to there families ever again. Your assuming the families would snitch on them

They probably slapped together some physical evidence in the late going and held it, unsure of the value. It's possible they've compared it to McCoy and other suspects without a match.

By all accounts, the crime scene in the plane was handled very sloppily. That's a theme regardless of the suspect or angle supported by various books. Initially they ignored or discarded evidence, then went back to desperately rectify. Whatever they wound up with, it's a dubious connection to Cooper.

The tie and tie clasp left on the plane were identified by McCoy's relatives and friends as belonging to him. I believe that was mentioned earlier in this thread. Frankly, I'm still frustrated that we're dealing with minor league and basically irrelevant short threads like this when at one point this forum held the most extensive information on the internet, in terms of the McCoy connection and debate toward it...50+ pages. Unfortunately, that thread was sidetracked with Duane Weber's widow bickering with a pest troll.

The FBI investigation began long before McCoy skyjacked the second plane. That's critical to what followed. Lead investigator is in place. Opinions are formed. Assignments made. The theory embraced by top man Ralph Himmelsbach was that Cooper died during the jump. They couldn't find money or a body or any trace of Cooper so they assumed he died, even if that meant lack of faith in a parachute, a device with a fine track record. Guys are stupid and stubborn, particularly at that age and occupation. They've advanced through the ranks supremely confident of their judgment, and consider it verified and applauded upon promotion.

Candidly I wish a young woman would have been in charge from the outset, and someone with a background in probability. That's always the missing variable. It's the primary reason I stopped posting regularly on true crime sites. There simply aren't enough results, no testing of the theories. The .00002% nonsense is allowed to linger year after year equally weighted alongside the logical summations. For example, I read here recently that Cooper and McCoy knew each other. Yeah, they decided to flip for it. Who would go first. Don't worry, if you splatter I'll make up for it, and make sure nobody knows your identity. They might even think we're one in the same. Wouldn't that be a riot. Within the past week I've posted on many sports sites regarding the Aaron Hernandez situation. It seemed quite clear he had gotten away with gun crimes many times frequently, and didn't view the latest incident as much of an escalation. Hence the sloppiness. The sloppiness is irrelevant. He was sloppy previously and nothing happened. I was challenged and ridiculed on those sites, including by those proclaiming his outright innocence, a so-called witch hunt. But now we have a result. An apparent result. One that will be examined. Further incidents are coming to light, including a double murder in summer 2012. This site and the series Unsolved Mysteries unfortunately attached to too many cases in which a result will never surface, although I understand there have been several cases solved since I left this board.

Two camps:

* McCoy committed a virtually identical crime within months
* McCoy embarked on a long and unusual drive to Las Vegas within the time frame immediately preceding the Cooper flight, verified by credit card and phone records
* McCoy looks very similar to the Cooper composite
* Military friends of McCoy say he talked openly about the possibility of that type of skyjacking. Several say they thought about him in connection with the Cooper event, long before learning of his involvement with the second skyjacking
* Tie and tie clasp identified by McCoy's relatives and friends

Second camp:

* Stewardesses seem smart and reliable. They don't think it was McCoy
* Discrepancy over age. Cooper placed much older than McCoy's 29 years
* Discrepancy over eye color. The consensus of witness accounts don't align with McCoy's eye color
* McCoy and his wife and family insist he was home at Thanksgiving
* Physical evidence collected from plane apparently does not match McCoy. This is an assumption on my part, but it probably holds value. See earlier in this post.

At this point it becomes a weighting issue. And the tug of war has seen many shifts. Himmelsbach was strongly in the second camp. More than anything, that defined the investigation and how it unfolded. It's not complicated. Anyone he hires, or assigns, or promotes, is virtually guaranteed to hold the same philosophy and value system. It's indeed guesswork with a badge. I have no idea how so many people assign such credibility to the FBI. They don't always hide. The young FBI guy currently in charge of the DB Cooper case did a long interview on LDS radio a few years ago. It's available on the internet. There's no authority or commanding skill whatsoever. He guesses, and doesn't always get the facts straight. I wouldn't call it .00002 level, but certainly nearby.

When nearly two decades passed without resolution, the first camp began to assert itself. The Real McCoy book was published in the early '90s. "FBI, the Untold Stories" had an episode dealing with the McCoy connection. Likewise the two-hour program on Discovery Channel -- or similar -- that covered the case extensively and revealed the presence of the tie and tie clasp, including a picture.

Note that those programs have apparently vanished from the rotation. I certainly haven't seen them. The tug of war obviously reversed, with camp two resuming control. Could be due to advances in physical evidence, and faith in old samples. Regardless, that side is simply wrong. Well meaning but lousy instincts and inept weighting system, like the guys taking Aaron Hernandez' side recently.

It's always amusing that the loud persistent types occupy camp two. I've mentioned the group who oversee the Cooper Wikipedia page won't even allow the most relevant McCoy information to be posted. Talk about paranoid. Meanwhile, the supporters of the McCoy angle are relatively quiet. I might be the one exception, and I occasionally go years between posts. A couple of people who served with McCoy have contacted me on this site and elsewhere via personal message. They are convinced McCoy did it. Countless details. One of them posted a few times on this site, saying he had waited 40 years for the connection to be made. But he's not writing books or blabbing everywhere. Bizarre sells.
Don't mean to bump a dead horse but.....


Eye witness testimony is usually correct though :) as we've learned in many UM cases.


The thing I dont get is the eliminated suspects due to the hard assumption by the fbi that he wasn't an experienced para jumper. If he were an experienced jumper especially a combat war veteran(special forces at that) he would have been daring enough to pull of that act with the idea of surviving. Special forces train for unimaginable feats and to survive them. For example pararesucemen are dropped in the middle of the dark ocean and forced to swim to a specific location with very limited Nav aides. My point is he would have experienced adversity and overcome it before which would have given him the confidence and arrogance needed to try it.

The only physical evidence collected was the tie and the DNA has proven unhelpful. It may not even be Cooper's at this point but someone who subsequently handled the tie.

No one will ever convince me that he wasn't Richard McCoy.

Incidentally...and of course, no one here is like this ;) ...but there are Cooper fanatics who will harass people who have drawn conclusions about Cooper's identity contrary to their own.

I, too, honestly never gave the McCoy theory much thought because he did not match the physical description given by the airline stewardesses--I sort of wiped my hands and said 'that's that', and looked to other ideas. Why I was willing to place a heavy deal of significance on a couple of instances of eyewitness descriptions in this case when I definitely do not for many others is probably a testament to my admittedly inconsistent logic at times.

Anyway, I decided to learn about Richard McCoy. I won't waste time rehashing the specific reasons why as they've already been outlined above by other posters, but I am also convinced McCoy was D.B. Cooper. The quality and quantity of similarities in the "known" McCoy skyjacking to the Cooper skyjacking are too significant to dismiss.

Incidentally...and of course, no one here is like this ;) ...but there are Cooper fanatics who will harass people who have drawn conclusions about Cooper's identity contrary to their own.

DB is a skeleton in some deep woods in Oregon.

DB is a skeleton in some deep woods in Oregon.
You know I used to think that too and it is still very possible. But since I have learned a lot more about aviation and special forces I am convinced that he had a legit shot at survival. I don't know that he was a pilot due to his possible ignorance of fuel calculations(although that should have been a front as to not tip off his intention ahead of time). But he had knowledge of aviation and an inexperienced jumper(as the fbi labeled him) would not have the ability to jump out of that plane in the manner that He did. That's my take. I also wonder if he intended on jumping in a more survivable location, but if her were special forces he would have already survived in poor elements in his past. He would have a higher chance of espcape by jumping over Washington/Oregon border in the cold due to law enforcement inability to find him there.

[QUOTE=MegtheEgg86]I, too, honestly never gave the McCoy theory much thought because he did not match the physical description given by the airline stewardesses--I sort of wiped my hands and said 'that's that', and looked to other ideas. Why I was willing to place a heavy deal of significance on a couple of instances of eyewitness descriptions in this case when I definitely do not for many others is probably a testament to my admittedly inconsistent logic at times.

Anyway, I decided to learn about Richard McCoy. I won't waste time rehashing the specific reasons why as they've already been outlined above by other posters, but I am also convinced McCoy was D.B. Cooper. The quality and quantity of similarities in the "known" McCoy skyjacking to the Cooper skyjacking are too significant to dismiss.[/QUOTE
I usually dismissed him too. Did McCoy have flying experience? I was intrigued by the christisnsan angle due to his brother and the fact that he was a northwest employee. But McCoy seems to be a better fit of the two.

Sometimes I read an old post of mine and it's quite discouraging, because it's superior to anything I'm capable of penning now. That lengthy post quoted by DALLASTEXAN on the prior page certainly qualifies.

Low caliber of argument and poor understanding of probability deserves harassment. If that word is attached to my DB Cooper rebuttals, I'll happily accept it. That lengthy thread from 7 or 8 years ago here was locked due to overboard bickering among others, not myself, in the later pages. In fact, I think crystaldawn wrote that she hated to close the thread because it included so much work and contribution from regular posters. She was referring to many segments and findings from the Real McCoy book, stuff that still can't be found elsewhere on the internet. That book was far more obscure than deserved, and remains that way. That's primarily why I posted the material, because the book is such a revelation, basically destroying the central arguments against McCoy along with identifying so many aspects that point to him.

It's a minor matter but the cover photos of McCoy during his trial for the second skyjacking are startlingly similar to the sketches from the Cooper event. I'll never understand how McCoy is eliminated or doubted based on physical features. In a normal world if two different people pulled off nearly the same crime months apart, you shouldn't be able to put pictures side by side with much similarity. Besides, in the Cooper event McCoy obviously was nervous as a newbie and took numerous additional steps to conceal his identity, ones he avoided in the second case when he basically dropped into his own backyard. The authors speculate he may have used heavy makeup and other amendments during the first skyjacking.

I've seen numerous transformations like MegtheEgg here, initially doubting McCoy and basically not paying attention to him due to conventional wisdom that he didn't match the basics, but then coming around upon further examination. Invariably the people dismissing McCoy know nothing about his inexplicable wee hour drive on the morning of the Cooper event, and put stock in flimsy FBI assertions that McCoy was elsewhere. Meanwhile, when I called the Utah Air National Guard they literally laughed on the phone when I told them that Ralph Himmelsbach was asserting that they held drills in Los Angeles over that Thanksgiving weekend decades ago. I can still hear the two guys laughing on the other end of the phone. They placed me on a joint call when they heard the topic, and did some research into early '70s procedures and locations. "No, I guarantee we didn't do that," one of them said, through the laughter.

The FBI later switched McCoy's location to home in Provo. Also laughable. As co-author Russell Calame told me on the phone, "We proved conclusively that he wasn't at home."

I wouldn't be nearly as frustrated with this case if the McCoy details were widely known, like the test drive event a few weeks earlier when he stayed at the Westward Ho hotel on the Strip. McCoy was not a gambler and was not known to visit Las Vegas. In seemingly any other case, when multiple oddities are detected and they piece together logically, the person is accepted as the perpetrator. Not here. We prefer to doubt the ability of a parachute, look for that skeleton, and accept fascination with any new claim that comes down the pike, regardless of how bizarre. The only way I can improve upon my previous post in one regard is to alter the digits: Any new Cooper identification is more like .000000002% likelihood.

I understand I'm never going to prevail here. The topic enlists creativity, not logic. Seemingly whenever I think one area has been dealt with, it shows up again. For example, a military buddy of McCoy from the '60s posted on this site several years ago and contacted me by private message. He was convinced McCoy was Cooper and said he waited 40 years to see the connection. He stumbled upon my thread here after an internet search. He knew nothing about the book. That guy told me that McCoy was a very skilled jumper and very knowledgeable about that type of plane, and that he often talked about potential conspiracy plans. Again, check the old threads and posts. Only the marathon thread was locked, as far as I know. Anything from the time frame is going to be superior to my memory in 2016. I think that thread including the posts from his military buddy was titled, "Richard Floyd McCoy was DB Cooper, IMO."

Above all, Richard McCoy pulled off a virtually identical caper, and within months. I am absolutely going to harass anyone stupid enough not to grasp the significance of that, during the DB Cooper debate. Everything else is a comparative tulip in the breeze.

How do you know whether or not they talked to there families ever again. Your assuming the families would snitch on them

dont mean to hijack the thread but recently History Channel did the show with the Anglin relatives who seem hell bent on proving those 2 made it. even produced a photo claiming they were the Anglin brothers.

i too believe whoever DB Cooper was probably did not survive the jump. those bills never turning again is the key clue to that imo.

dont mean to hijack the thread but recently History Channel did the show with the Anglin relatives who seem hell bent on proving those 2 made it. even produced a photo claiming they were the Anglin brothers.

i too believe whoever DB Cooper was probably did not survive the jump. those bills never turning again is the key clue to that imo.

Yes, I saw that and am inclined to believe the Anglins survived but not that Cooper did. Saw a program that explained what kind of chute he used and had he pulled the ripcord sooner, would have ended up in the Lewis River and later, in a lake, and either way the body would be lost probably beyond all recovery.

On the Alcatraz thing I believe the Anglins pushed Morris off the raft and Morris was the body seen floating days later by a passing ship (but not recovered). I believe after they pushed him off, they themselves couldn't make it and perished as well.

If they had made it out alive, they didn't have it in em to remain quiet for so many years.

I'm just curious how the FBI ruled out McCoy, seemingly very quickly. The guy looked like Cooper, committed an identical heist 4 months later, and both hijackings took place over a period of time where students from Bringham Young University (McCoy was a student at the time) were on break.

Are there any named suspects who disappeared at the time of the jump?

I've always assumed he perished, but have never heard of a theory where the suspect disappeared to coincide with the incident.

Are there any named suspects who disappeared at the time of the jump?

I've always assumed he perished, but have never heard of a theory where the suspect disappeared to coincide with the incident.

Exactly what I wondered but thanks for asking it better than I would have. I was just going to observe that whoever he was either had no connections, or his connections either didn't put two and two together about him or didn't want to expose him.

Exactly what I wondered but thanks for asking it better than I would have. I was just going to observe that whoever he was either had no connections, or his connections either didn't put two and two together about him or didn't want to expose him.

It's something I just recently thought of - if he had died, it should be easier to figure out who it was than if he survived.

On the Alcatraz thing I believe the Anglins pushed Morris off the raft and Morris was the body seen floating days later by a passing ship (but not recovered). I believe after they pushed him off, they themselves couldn't make it and perished as well.

If they had made it out alive, they didn't have it in em to remain quiet for so many years.
See I would play devils advocate on that. I think they were smart enough to plan a remarkable escape without being caught. And on top of that they executed well which is a black eye for the system. Had they escaped successfully I think they would have been smart enough to stay quiet beyond the initial call to the downtown attorney. With that said it is 50/50. They could have died as well and obviously one may have died. But many people have proven that it is possible to make it through the bay with a good amount of planning or training. For some reason law enforcement gave the impression that they put a lot of planning into the escape but minimal planning into the bay passage. I don't think that was the case. If they were smart enough to make a raft in that fashion I would think they knew how to prep for the dangers of the bay. law enforcement sells the idea that the bay must of killed them because the system did not do its job. They were banking on the location to do its part yet even they don't know for sure that it did.

I go back to the eye witness account. The flight attendant on the segment was very confident in her description so much so that she changed the sketch. She was a victim and I by no means am trying to victim blame. I just question her eye witness account as being as accurate as initially thought. I could be wrong perhaps she had witness identifying training due to her job requirement and that could explain her confidence. She also may have had time to think about memorizing his appearance.

Another thing to point out with regards to McCoy:

During his known hijacking, his wife was later revealed to have helped him out with the planning and execution. Wouldn't surprise me if she was the accomplice who picked up "DB Cooper" after he jumped from the plane.

Personally I think DB Cooper died in the fall or died from exposure after he landed. There is a lot of evidence to support that McCoy and Cooper could be the same person. On the flip side, there is one piece of evidence that says otherwise.

Unless I'm wrong or missed something in this thread. None of the money, aside for what was discovered on a beach, has ever been recovered. With the serial numbers being recorded, it would be impossible for the person to start spending the money and not leave a paper trail. Even if McCoy is Cooper and used some of that money to say pay a bill or buy groceries or take his wife out to dinner. That money is now back in circulation and has the potential to be picked up or traced. Any amount that was spent would be out there. Way to much time has passed for that money to not be put into circulation with the rest of the regular currency floating around.

This type of thing has fascinated me since childhood...problem solving via weighing variables. From an early age it stood out that more often than not people were trying to make things more complicated than they were.

I didn't have to look far for the prime example. The JFK assassination wasn't too far distant. There were prime time examinations on CBS every few years, along with late night programs and countless books. Meanwhile it seemed very basic to me. A kook found an opportunity and changed history. To believe otherwise requires one bizarre reach after another, especially since they are forced to combine one low percentage aspect after another.

When I was in high school the history teacher surprised us by devoting an entire class to discussion of the JFK case. He brought in a fellow teacher to lead, a guy who lived in Dallas more than a decade earlier, during the time frame of the assassination.

That teacher sat relaxed on the front desk. Before offering any opinions of his own, he polled the class. How many thought it was a conspiracy, that Oswald did not act alone?

To my amazement, at least 80% of hands went up. Not immediately. It was a follow the leader type of thing, with many late hands showing once students detected the overwhelming trend.

You've got to be kidding. So gullible and pathetic. When he asked how many students thought Oswald acted alone, I raised my hand and said, "Absolutely. No question about it." I was pleased when the prettiest girl in class also raised her hand.

Since I made the blunt comment, the guest teacher called on me and asked me to elaborate. At that point I knew that he shared my view.

I talked about the surrounding evidence, specifically the pot shot through the open window at General Walker months earlier, and then Oswald killing Officer Tippit in cold blood on a Dallas street an hour or two after the Kennedy assassination. Heads were turning all around the room. The other students didn't know anything about that stuff. They had simply succumbed to the conventional wisdom, the murky overview that it had to be a grand conspiracy.

In other words, one side had done a splendid job in controlling the dialogue, regardless of likelihood or truth.

No different in this D.B. Cooper case. It's stamped as a grand mystery in public consciousness and aura. Simple explanation need not apply. Very, very few people know about the Richard McCoy details, like the strange trip on the same morning, and even if that type of thing is mentioned it is immediately avalanched by four plus decades of bias. He's a mysterious legend, not a balding young Mormon who botched the monetary security during the first attempt and therefore had to do it again within months.

I always have to laugh at the fact that the people who doubt McCoy actually take the aggressive stance, virtually everywhere but here. Even here, on occasion. That type doesn't mind clutching the short straw on the probability ladder as long as virtually everyone else is alongside. Cooper died during the jump. Wonderful. You're already aligning with miniscule odds, before venturing as far as variable number two. Have fun.

Back to boyhood. Once the JFK issue was so simple, I realized it had to coexist with examples of exactly the opposite, of cases that looked easy at first glance but were actually extremely complex. Those are sad cases, for the most part. I wish there were fewer of them because innocent people suffer.

These days with so much instant media it's difficult for the younger crowd to identify which cases were big before the internet, or even before cable television. I can help. I'm older than most here. During my school days in the '70s the true crime cases that were most frequently presented and discussed, along with JFK, were the Lindbergh baby and Sam Sheppard. The Lindbergh case was all over some of the books we read. But that was too far removed, too difficult to evaluate. Our grandparents grew up with it and could share details but most people from that era were either gone or no longer prominent in the media.

Now Sam Sheppard, that was another matter. Our parents and teachers grew up with and knew all about that case. Frequent topic and fascination, especially since F. Lee Bailey was involved and Bailey was never shy about seeking media attention throughout those years. That Sheppard case dwarfed all other true crime cases that are sometimes referenced from the '50s.

As soon as I studied it I had an uneasy feeling. This guy was probably telling the truth but since the claims were so weird it's obvious why law enforcement, and most members of the public, didn't believe Sheppard and deemed him a murderer.

I knew there would be more cases like that. Gad. Sheppard wasn't really exonerated by evidence until long after his death. And that evidence didn't have to exist or be preserved. And another similar case had already taken place, even though I didn't know it at the time. Obviously I've commented on the Jeffrey MacDonald case many times here. That type of strange story case is so different from JFK type cases because the way people react to it is so unpredictable. I know very sharp people who fall on both sides. IMO, the notion that crime scene reconstruction is high caliber and sophisticated is the aspect that shifts far too many otherwise sharp people to the wrong side, not only in the MacDonald case but other initially similar ones like Kay Mortenson. If it were properly known and assailed as glorified guesswork then the distribution among believers and hang-em high types would be more properly balanced. Prosecutors don't have any trouble arguing that it's not inevitable to leave physical evidence when that theme suits them, but in other cases like MacDonald they'll mock any idea that multiple people could be there without leaving a defined unmistakable trail. Unfortunately the public and jurors have been brainwashed to believe it. Counter examples like the Kay Mortenson details are simply not known.

I just wish there could be an unveiling of the truth of the Cooper and MacDonald cases on the same day. I could make one massive parlay at high favorable odds and then play golf every day for the remainder of my life.

No different in this D.B. Cooper case. It's stamped as a grand mystery in public consciousness and aura. Simple explanation need not apply. Very, very few people know about the Richard McCoy details, like the strange trip on the same morning, and even if that type of thing is mentioned it is immediately avalanched by four plus decades of bias. He's a mysterious legend, not a balding young Mormon who botched the monetary security during the first attempt and therefore had to do it again within months.

This is a great point. The counter-point to that, however, is that if the FBI/law enforcement really believed McCoy was Cooper, they would have certainly advanced that theory forward to say that they "got" Cooper. I 100% believe McCoy to be Cooper, but I would have a hard time believing that there would be a concerted effort, at least among law enforcement, to cover it up to maintain an "aura" of conspiracy.

I just wish there could be an unveiling of the truth of the Cooper and MacDonald cases on the same day. I could make one massive parlay at high favorable odds and then play golf every day for the remainder of my life.

As in Jeffrey MacDonald? The truth has been unveiled long ago with that one.

Did anyone see the first part of the documentary on db cooper on the history channel last night? They make the case it was Robert Rackstraw

Rackstraw was a suspect back in 1979, was a highly decorated military Vietnam veteran with the necessary skills, and bore a strong resemblance to db cooper

FYI, second part of the documentary airs on history channel tonight. It's riveting

I've got a friend who told me it's something like FOUR HOURS long.

Which in itself is impressive. I'll have to look for it when it hits digital downloading, etc.

Go out of your way to watch it. I had thought McCoy was the best suspect, but they may have found someone better.

Go out of your way to watch it. I had thought McCoy was the best suspect, but they may have found someone better.

I'll be curious to hear what a certain cheeseburger-toting poster thinks about this one. :) (Yes, Awsi. Calling you out.)

Oh wow this sounds like my kind of watch. Anyone know where to
Watch it online send me a PM. I'm overseas. Of corse I'll check the obvious.

Oh wow this sounds like my kind of watch. Anyone know where to
Watch it online send me a PM. I'm overseas. Of corse I'll check the obvious.

I've been told it was on the History Channel. I'm looking forward to finding it, myself!

Part 2 was a letdown, but I'd still recommend it.

I'm still thinking McCoy is the most likely guy.

Btw...just curious. If the money never got spent or tracked post spending is there any way at all Cooper could have found a way to exchange that money and get untraced money back to use? Perhaps he went to Canada or Mexico right after just for the sole purpose of exchanging the money there officially, getting the foreign currency, then going back and exchanging that too to get new dollars back?

Again though, I do think McCoy was most likely the guy.

Can somebody PM me as to where this can be watched (or share a link if that's allowed)?

It aired on the History Channel. Not sure if its available for digital download, but if you have cable, it's probably available via your on demand services.

KICKING myself for cutting the cord on cable!!

As in Jeffrey MacDonald? The truth has been unveiled long ago with that one.

Laughable. But that's the simpleton version and unfortunately destined to remain that way.

Bizarre crimes lend themselves to the simpleton version accepted as absolute. More and more examples have popped up and it will only continue.

***

Regarding these DB Cooper episodes, I wasn't aware of them and haven't seen them. In reading the online summaries I'm not surprised. No credible evidence will surface on anybody not named Richard Floyd McCoy. As I've detailed, the original FBI investigator Ralph Himmelsbach was a McCoy doubter and made a comical number of basic mistakes, like asserting that McCoy was in Los Angeles during the time period in question. A segment of FBI guys favored the McCoy connection but they were systematically drowned out. Himmelsbach played a huge part in identifying his successors, from what I've read, so naturally that tree will continue to detour from the simple answer in McCoy. The people put in charge of the investigation are not high caliber. That is easily identified in radio interviews that have been linked online.

For example, asserting that Cooper likely died in the jump should be an automatic disqualifier for that role, or any role near the top. Why rely on 98%+ likelihood when I can grasp at low percentage whiffs? You might as well doubt a duck's ability to poop.

Programs like this will naturally doubt McCoy if they source from two main streams: The FBI guys from that tree, who have been weaned and encouraged to look elsewhere, and the book/internet sleuths who invariably prefer the weaving million variable path, with all its potential for millions of clicks and more and more books. Simple solutions kill sales and interest.

The basics remain:

* Parachutes work

* McCoy made an extremely odd and otherwise unexplainable drive from Provo to Las Vegas in the wee hour time frame immediately preceding the Cooper event. Then he apparently vaporized for 36 hours before placing a phone call from the Tropicana Hotel (nearest the airport) to his home in Provo. That trip to Las Vegas was, by all evidence, supported by a scouting mission on the same day of the week two weeks earlier, when he stayed at the Westward Ho on the Strip.

* The point I've made here many times but seems to be completely absent in any other Cooper discussion: This crime is so unique in nature that you can't apply normal criteria in assessing and tossing the suspects. I think I used the example that the FBI seems to believe that going from one guy to another is no different from stepping down off a curb. Phenomenal ignorance. This type of skyjacking requires an extraordinary number of variables and the vast majority of them in a public setting, for hours. Cover is taken only upon exit from the plane. The FBI densely is relying on eyewitness stewardess opinion beyond the raw fact that pulling it off successfully the second time is a massive, massive hint toward the identity of the first guy. McCoy lost the money during the first jump so he had to do it again months later. Not complicated. Nothing in this case is particularly complicated.

* Like the MacDonald crime scene, this case featured overmatched and bewildered detectives. Proper care was not taken to collect and secure evidence. It is not a DNA case, just like the MacDonald case is not a DNA case. Preponderance of evidence points to McCoy, just like the simpleton focus screams at Jeffrey MacDonald and anybody else who is a sad victim of an extremely bizarre Kay Mortensen-type crime.

* I'll try to watch the episodes soon, and comment if anything strikes me as worthy. I do applaud the FBI for finally realizing they don't need to chase down the latest old laundry line bedsheet as possibly the Cooper parachute remnants. There have literally been examples of that, as I howled.

It aired on the History Channel. Not sure if its available for digital download, but if you have cable, it's probably available via your on demand services.

KICKING myself for cutting the cord on cable!!
Yeah me too especially being overseas. If I had a subscription in the US I could of watched a lot more online here. Oh well it will be out somewhere eventually. I watched the oj 30 for 30 already online lol it only took about 2 weeks for it to make it out.

Laughable. But that's the simpleton version and unfortunately destined to remain that way.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that groundbreaking evidence of a man who spent time with MacDonald in prison and didn't believe he was guilty. Us simpletons, man.

Preponderance of evidence points to McCoy, just like the simpleton focus screams at Jeffrey MacDonald and anybody else who is a sad victim of an extremely bizarre Kay Mortensen-type crime.

I agree with regards to McCoy being Cooper. I see no other viable suspect. Kay Mortensen's murder was related to the theft of guns that he had. Nothing was taken from the MacDonald residence. Apples and oranges.

I finished the History Channel thing.

The History Channel in those docs LOVES to try and be dramatic with new ideas and theories that often aren't based in reality or viability. They are going above and beyond trying to make us believe Robert Rackstraw is DB Cooper when to me McCoy still is EASILY the more likely suspect. Its like they don't focus on McCoy on purpose because too many people already think its him and it may not draw enough ratings to they try and go in another direction.

I believe simply enough it was McCoy and that he lost a lot of the money in the jump as it was destroyed due to the conditions or it scattered and tore. He may have been able to recover some of it. And if he did, he simply went to either Canada or Mexico....exchanged it...exchanged it again and then came back. The serial number tracking process isn't as iron clad as some people think anyway.

The History Channel keeps putting these docs out there trying to shock people or come up with crazy theories and in the big picture when really poked and scrutinized they do not hold up. They tried to tell us that they found a pic of the Anglin Brothers in South America (Alcatraz Escape) and nobody other than their "expert" has been able to follow up on this or prove it to be legit. I'm fully expecting History Channel to visit another huge mystery soon enough (Kennedy assassination maybe?) and deliver us some new kakamaybe theory on that too.

I STILL haven't seen it, but was advised that a law professor from Montana made an appearance discussing all the problems with eyewitness testimony.

Very fascinating. (Not the subject of his assertions, but that History would pick a seemingly random professor from Montana to talk about it.)

I think McCoy lost the money from the first Cooper hijacking, and this is the reason why he went ahead and did a near identical heist 4 months later. He looks like Cooper, similar methods of Cooper's were used when he hijacked the same plane with the same equipment as Cooper, and none of the money from the original Cooper hijacking has ever been recovered.

I think McCoy lost the money from the first Cooper hijacking, and this is the reason why he went ahead and did a near identical heist 4 months later. He looks like Cooper, similar methods of Cooper's were used when he hijacked the same plane with the same equipment as Cooper, and none of the money from the original Cooper hijacking has ever been recovered.


I think him losing the money is exactly what happened. Maybe not all of it, but a lot of it. Either during the jump or otherwise. Reading more and more about McCoy it really corners him as the guy in this all. Also lets not forget that one of the items left behind on the plane was tied to McCoy by his family members. There's just too much there for him to not at the very least be the prime suspect.

Also, over all the years several people have come out and claimed to be Cooper. Including Rackstraw himself who a couple of times said he was Cooper and then recanted. McCoy never did. I do not believe knowing what we know about Cooper and his demeanor and the way he pulled these things off he would be the type to ever go around telling anyone he was Cooper.

I think the real identity of DB Cooper went to the grave with McCoy after that shoot out with the FBI.

I'd say the second installment was somewhat of a letdown.. though one small bit of trivia - the gray haired "investigative journalist" (Jim Forbes) was the narrator of that Behind The Music series on VH1 back in the 2000's

Like many here, I have been following the Cooper case for decades. This documentary was a colossal waste of time. Save yourselves the time if you haven't watched it already. This piece of "journalistic" trash goes absolutely nowhere.

I lead towards McCoy as being Cooper.

His facial resemblance to the sketch aside, McCoy processed a few of the skills and background required for such an undertaking (during the hijacking, it was obvious "Cooper" was familiar with jets and the 727 as he gave very specific instructions to crew--and he mentioned an Air Force Base as the correct amount of driving time from downtown Seattle, so he likely had military experience).

Richard McCoy had military experience and had two tours in Vietnam, first as a demolitions expert and the second as a helicopter pilot with the Green Berets. He also was a sky-diving enthusiast.

As for the question as to Cooper even surviving the jump or journey from the wilderness--there is absolutely nothing to indicate he died in the jump. if he had, I would think at least something he was carrying would turn up in the repeated massive searches? The parachute he used was also never recovered.
Sure, the weather was less than favorable for a jump but a skilled diver would be able to do it successfully. While it was noted Cooper was not dressed well for the cold climate, he well could have had survival gear of some sort in his case. The fact none of the bills were ever found in circulation does not mean Cooper perished or kept them. (The approx. $5,000 found in the sand of a riverbank in early 1980 is the only confirmed bills--two full packs of $20 and a third pack of same that had ten bills missing even though all packs still had their original rubber bands intact). Experts concluded the bills were deposited there by natural action, though they had likely been at that location a short time, perhaps two to five years.

Why was he even doing the hijacking for over $200,000 in the first place? The cash could had been sent over seas, or for some other sort of underground deal or debt. He probably was not going to spend it at the local bar or shopping mall.

If McCoy was Cooper, we will probably never know for sure as McCoy was killed in a police shoot-out in 1974. But he is the best suspect to date.

DB Cooper the Swiss Baron. Trips to Disneyland. Free charter flights to Switzerland. Sleeping on somebody's couch for 5 days until the day prior to the skyjacking.

I was nearly rolling off the couch so many times today, while watching the two episodes online. So much unintentional hilarity I had to rewind and watch again and again.

For a while I fully expected Clark Rockefeller to narrate the next segment, other than his current predicament. Come to think of it, perhaps DB Cooper was Rockefeller's inspiration. Who knew? That connection wasn't obvious until History Channel thoughtfully provided these episodes.

There was certainly as much evidence of a Cooper/Rockefeller connection as anything between Cooper and this Rackstraw fellow who was hoisted by the two so-called journalists. Seriously, once the hilarious Swiss Baron aspects were dealt with I managed to compose myself, expecting something at least modestly compelling. Nope. There was squat. Zilch. Other than a male who had some military and aviation training and probably was in the Pacific Northwest at the time, I didn't detect one substantial circumstantial connection, let alone the touted 93. The co-host and online crime researcher Billy Jensen described it perfectly, that he heard lots of information about Rackstraw as a devious guy -- check fraud, etc -- but nothing connecting him to Cooper. The ambush interview with Rackstraw was incompetent bordering on disgraceful. Even the time frame picture isn't meaningful when you consider how baby faced and youthful Rackstraw looked in 1971 at age 27. Cooper was described as 40ish. My certainty Richard Floyd McCoy was only 29 at the time but he was a wiry hardened guy with a receding hairline and looking much older than his chronological age.

Was History Channel really going to devote two full episodes to that Rackstraw garbage alone? Scary. The FBI bailed them out by announcing the closure of the DB Cooper case. That info saved the programs, along with some good interviews of important people in the case who rarely if ever have been heard from.

Ralph Himmelsbach is a moron. Ralph Himmelsbach is a moron...

I couldn't repeat that often enough. I appreciated the '70s clips of Himmelsbach making a fool of himself, declaring that it was "greater than 50/50" that Cooper didn't survive the jump.

Mega credit to this program for interviewing an aviation and parachute expert who emphasized that Cooper picked exactly the right chute among the options he was presented with, and that surviving the jump carried huge favoritism, regardless of the weather conditions. No kidding. That's the point I've started with for decades. You can see the hole the FBI dug for itself from the outset while led by a true moron with no grasp of probability.

Ralph Himmelsbach caliber types prefer to believe the first guy splattered on the ground and the pathetic copycat McCoy was easily and quickly captured. They can't stand the other version, that the same guy essentially thumbed his nose at them by getting away scot free the first time and confidently trying it again within scant months.

* The short segment on Richard Floyd McCoy was fair, other than the predictable absence of any mention of the unexplainable drive he made from Provo to Las Vegas in the wee hours preceding the Cooper event. McCoy doubters hate that bit of information so they do everything possible to suppress it. Somehow it succeeds. That's why I took great lengths and many pages to present the info here a decade or so ago, in the marathon thread that was eventually locked.

This program allowed the standard biased fare that McCoy was home in Provo on Thanksgiving Day, the assertion made by his wife Karen and her friend. That info was easily squashed in the Real McCoy book, which detailed the phone call from the Tropicana Hotel to McCoy's residence late on Thanksgiving night.

* I appreciated the appearance of Nick O'Hara, the FBI agent who shot and killed McCoy in 1974. I had read his account but this video clip offered far greater detail. O'Hara has said, "When I killed McCoy I killed DB Cooper also."

O'Hara did a good job of essentially presenting the preponderance of evidence angle in favor of McCoy as Cooper.

* Perhaps the most interesting segments were at the tail end of episode two. Curtis Eng has led the Cooper investigation in recent years. He did a very rare interview by FBI standards and all but announced that Rackstraw was ruled out by his predecessors decades ago.

Eng then said (paraphrased), "Of the suspects we do have, while none of them can be eliminated, they can't be proven as Cooper to the point of criminal proceedings."

That was Eng's persistent theme, the need to identify someone to degree of certainty to present to his superiors for a criminal case.

It's safe to say that McCoy, while deceased, is still on that main suspect list.

Billy Jensen impressed me with the astute questioning throughout the program, far superior to the journalists or the former FBI guy who served as co-host. Jensen asked Eng about the 8 cigarette butts that Cooper left in the plane, and value for DNA evidence. Eng matter of factly said that current standards of protocol were not followed in 1971. In other words, the immediate investigation was every bit as flawed as many accounts have described. They blew it with the cigarette butts. Eng said the only DNA profile is a partial profile, that there are several sources of DNA on the item, and the profile would not be useful in prosecution. Presumably that profile is contained on the dark JC Penney Towncraft clip on tie and tie clasp that Cooper left on the plane. I've mentioned that one McCoy relatives and some friends identified that tie as belonging to McCoy.

Did a Swiss Baron prefer a JC Penney clip on tie?

* Concluding the second episode there was a great interview with reclusive stewardess Tina Mucklow, and the co-pilot. Mucklow became a nun and hadn't given an interview since the days following the event. They provided terrific anecdotes and description. In particular, I always wondered why the crew didn't try to bolt the cockpit during the refueling/money stop while Cooper was distracted, essentially stranding Cooper in the plane and ending the event. The co-pilot said that was his plan, but that the other two stewardesses unknowingly foiled it by remaining in the plane while Mucklow went back and forth inside to outside under Cooper's direction. Otherwise the crew could have exited the same stairs as the stewardesses and Cooper would have had to sense the problem and get down to ground level to witness the fleeing feet under cover of curtains.

* Mucklow was shown pictures of Rackstraw along with a video interview of Rackstraw from 1979 when he was a Cooper suspect while being prosecuted for another crime. Mucklow said she didn't recognize Rackstraw as Cooper.

To be fair, the program should have used pictures of the other principal suspects and shown them to Mucklow. This will be her only interview. She made that quite clear. I have no doubt she would not have identified McCoy as Cooper. That is my impression from long ago accounts. No matter. Her response should be on the record, on that matter and countless others.

Ok so Ive been bored lately and this is one of the few segments I was able to find of late. I never looked far into cooper outside of UM. This is where I have to quote RobinW...it is amazing how UM got this case into a 15 min segment. It also shows their credibility in how they were able to get a flight attendant to give such a candid interview. as it appears most of the aircrew has been very private about the ordeal afterward.

I lean more than 50% to cooper having survived due to the lack of evidence of his death and the subsequent 45 year investigation by the FBI. If they truly thought he were dead I think this investigation would have been closed faster. They either have secret information that ties to a suspect that they cannot charge and/or perhaps they have minute evidence that shows that cooper did indeed survive the jump. I also have to say that I believe that it is remotely possible cooper died(especially if he were a novice jumper) and was never found due to the location of the jump, but there would have been ample time to find his body and equipment.

I also think that if he died someone from his family somewhere would have been looking for him at the time...or at least more swiftly come to the conclusion that their loved one was involved. I've heard an investigator that knows the case well claim that there were not many documented missing persons at that time that fit. he dismissed the top suspects due to eye witness testimony of the flight attendants(McCoy being too young and too skilled/christiansan being too bald and too short) yet he was willing to put a missing man from Michigan that he was investigating for another crime as the prime suspect LOL! He gave no evidence whatsoever that linked this man to being cooper, but he's the prime suspect...

I think reputation of the airline industry and FBI took a hit from this case and led to both of them being unwilling to cooperate with the public in the manner that they needed to if they ever had a chance to publicly solve the crime. The fact that the public is so inspired to help in this case in some way hurts as well as it helps due to the fact that there are many good profiled suspects and family members alleging that they know their family member to be cooper.

Eyewitness testimony was the prime tool investigators used in this case due to the time. As we know with advances in procedures of investigation, we now know that eye witness testimony of strangers in particular is one of the worst ways to solve a crime.

Robert Rackstraw can be eliminated for me because he is a big time story teller. his own sister states that she cannot believe a word that he says and he lies so much that she can't bear to even talk to him anymore...yet she thinks he could be cooper because he said some things...

* Perhaps the most interesting segments were at the tail end of episode two. Curtis Eng has led the Cooper investigation in recent years. He did a very rare interview by FBI standards and all but announced that Rackstraw was ruled out by his predecessors decades ago.

Eng then said (paraphrased), "Of the suspects we do have, while none of them can be eliminated, they can't be proven as Cooper to the point of criminal proceedings."

That was Eng's persistent theme, the need to identify someone to degree of certainty to present to his superiors for a criminal case.

It's safe to say that McCoy, while deceased, is still on that main suspect list.

Billy Jensen impressed me with the astute questioning throughout the program, far superior to the journalists or the former FBI guy who served as co-host. Jensen asked Eng about the 8 cigarette butts that Cooper left in the plane, and value for DNA evidence. Eng matter of factly said that current standards of protocol were not followed in 1971. In other words, the immediate investigation was every bit as flawed as many accounts have described. They blew it with the cigarette butts. Eng said the only DNA profile is a partial profile, that there are several sources of DNA on the item, and the profile would not be useful in prosecution. Presumably that profile is contained on the dark JC Penney Towncraft clip on tie and tie clasp that Cooper left on the plane. I've mentioned that one McCoy relatives and some friends identified that tie as belonging to McCoy.

Did a Swiss Baron prefer a JC Penney clip on tie?

* Concluding the second episode there was a great interview with reclusive stewardess Tina Mucklow, and the co-pilot. Mucklow became a nun and hadn't given an interview since the days following the event. They provided terrific anecdotes and description. In particular, I always wondered why the crew didn't try to bolt the cockpit during the refueling/money stop while Cooper was distracted, essentially stranding Cooper in the plane and ending the event. The co-pilot said that was his plan, but that the other two stewardesses unknowingly foiled it by remaining in the plane while Mucklow went back and forth inside to outside under Cooper's direction. Otherwise the crew could have exited the same stairs as the stewardesses and Cooper would have had to sense the problem and get down to ground level to witness the fleeing feet under cover of curtains.

* Mucklow was shown pictures of Rackstraw along with a video interview of Rackstraw from 1979 when he was a Cooper suspect while being prosecuted for another crime. Mucklow said she didn't recognize Rackstraw as Cooper.

To be fair, the program should have used pictures of the other principal suspects and shown them to Mucklow. This will be her only interview. She made that quite clear. I have no doubt she would not have identified McCoy as Cooper. That is my impression from long ago accounts. No matter. Her response should be on the record, on that matter and countless others.
My two top suspects would be christiansen and McCoy. Christiansen had the ties to the company, but I don't know if he had the ability or fits the physical profile as well as McCoy did. Everyone here already knows the detail of them both I assume. Awsi I will look to find your thoughts on Christiansen if you have not posted them I would like to know them.

McCoy looked older than his age in the photo ive seen. McCoy had the training to survive the jump and clearly would have been the only suspect that clearly had the stones to even attempt it. Which is why I lean towards him. He pulled off almost a carbon copy of the crime later, but my only problem is that he left behind key evidence in that crime that he did not leave in the cooper crime(the written notes) which led to his capture. it could have been a simple mistake due to the adrenaline factor. I also wonder why the FBI having caught him is unwilling to sight him publicly as the main prime suspect since they actually captured him and killed him. I know of the individual that made the claim that he killed McCoy and cooper at the same time.

The novice theorists want us to believe that he basically had no idea of the elements and circumstances of the jump, but planned and executed everything else 100%. It just does not make sense. Clearly the location and weather was planned especially if this person had aviation knowledge. You don't even have to be a pilot to know that weather and elements in flight factor into flying and the environment. forget about jumping from a plane lol. also this would have been a key factor into him being able to get away. no one saw him because of the weather and terrain.

I also look at the money. I don't know if it is true but I heard that the feds gave him a bank type bag that was zipped closed. This would have made it more difficult for him to carry. how did he lose some of the money, but not all? did the bag decompose on the ground? Did someone else find the bag and took some money but not all? did it become unzipped somehow? did cooper plant some of the money to make it appear that he died? The fact that the money never circulated is a coy statement. if may indeed have circulated they just cannot trace it unless they find it somehow which clearly they never found it all.

this sort of reminds me of the Alcatraz escape in that oh these guys planned for two years how to escape the rock, but never once accounted for the water lol so they must have drowned instantly. It would be like your dog or cat finally escaping out the door but stopping and thinking you know what I never thought about what I would do if I actually got through. The feds could not solve the crime so they want them to have died.

On another note I never realized john list was an FBI suspect initially. and some people try to tie the zodiac lol. so I guess that means TED K?? What about William Bradford bishop?

i think too many things about McCoy make sense as far as him being Cooper.

imho...there's a greater than 50% chance its him. probably closer to 70%.

i think too many things about McCoy make sense as far as him being Cooper.

imho...there's a greater than 50% chance its him. probably closer to 70%.
Something small I noticed in the UM segment. McCoy was a helo pilot in the army and flew green burret missions so he would have had quite the training and survival skills. Obviously McCoy did successfully pull off the same heist later. But in some of the details of that heist that I read it seemed more chaotic. In the reenactment Cooper calls the pilots fly boys. That is usually somewhat of a slight degrading term that non pilot military members use to describe a pilot. It is an older term and I don't hear it used much anymore but it got my attention. I wonder if it was an UM add for spice or if that is what he indeed told Tina when he instructed her to go into the cockpit. Tina described him as very calm and UM portrayed him as mostly calm but more confrontational towards the end.

Authorities have a new clue into who DB Cooper might have been:

http://m.seattlepi.com/news/article/Scientists-Possible-new-evidence-in-D-B-Cooper-10857175.php

I have to believe that Mr. Cooper had been skydiving before. I can't believe he would plan this out, with his intent to parachute out of an airliner (into harsh terrain, no doubt) unless he had experience sky diving. This was going to be tough to pull off under the best circumstances. Even if he survived the parachute ride to the ground, how was he going to get to where he needed to go?

Then again, maybe he was just really desperate and not thinking rationally...

I have to believe that Mr. Cooper had been skydiving before. I can't believe he would plan this out, with his intent to parachute out of an airliner (into harsh terrain, no doubt) unless he had experience sky diving. This was going to be tough to pull off under the best circumstances. Even if he survived the parachute ride to the ground, how was he going to get to where he needed to go?

Then again, maybe he was just really desperate and not thinking rationally...

On one of the programs, a parachute expert said of the two choices he had, he made the worst choice of parachute--one which could not be controlled and was going to just drop him like cargo--but then, given the conditions, he could not have seen where the heck he was going, to control it.

Well there is a lot of info out there on this. And depending on who you talk to you hear different things. A recreational/amateur/even professional jumper would not attempt such a jump. No one in their right mind would. So for me that has little bearing on this and such statements can be dismissed. The fact is we still know little about i and probably will never know the truth. I have a feeling the person knew more about the aircraft due to inside or past experience. And the jumper also had experience in jumping and surviving. To what extent we don't know. But given the location that was chosen i get that feeling.

I don't know about this latest update. Could just be another plan for more television coverage.

The TV program Expedition Unknown did a Cooper episode, including a new theory for jump location and how years of searching have been in the wrong place, and the program host, Josh Gates, taking credit for putting the people testing the tie in touch with a lab which found 100,000 particles instead of 700, and was able to test them all and isolate the most interesting among them.

Has the FBI commented on the new tests done on the tie? Its unfathomable that the Feds would not have done this test before they said they were dropping the case. If this test is legit and the FBI didnt bother to do it themselves, its an unbleievable lapse on their part.
Ive always believed it was McCoy and I will believe that till its been proven otherwise.

The TV program said the FBI had closed the case unsolved, then these other people got permission to test the tie, but it was a painfully slow process by hand until they were helped by resources available through the program. They also said the suspect smoked eight cigarettes, and even one might contain DNA which could help identify him, but the FBI had lost them all!

The Boeing connection makes a ton of sense. The obvious fact is that he was in the part of the country near the Boeing facilities. Secondly, he had seemed to have good familiarity with the Boeing 727. Some of this could be learned elsewhere, but it does tie in with this new theory (no pun intended).

I wonder what records Boeing has of its employees going back that far. It's crazy to think microscopic metal parts on the necktie could help solve this case so many years later. I guess almost any case can be solved if new technology comes up.

I have to believe that Mr. Cooper had been skydiving before. I can't believe he would plan this out, with his intent to parachute out of an airliner (into harsh terrain, no doubt) unless he had experience sky diving. This was going to be tough to pull off under the best circumstances. Even if he survived the parachute ride to the ground, how was he going to get to where he needed to go?

Then again, maybe he was just really desperate and not thinking rationally...

One of the interviewees in the UM segment stated that nobody knew what Cooper wore under the suit nor what he had in his pockets or briefcase; they very well could have been the tools of survival. Odds are he had a plan in place once he got on the ground, wherever he landed. If he had a compass with him and/or training in land navigation, plus outdoor survival skills (which he most assuredly would have if he was a military veteran), he could have easily made it out of the wilderness and back into civilization unscathed.

He already told the aircrew how they were to refuel the plane then under what conditions to fly it once they were airborne again (flaps, altitude, etc). So if he had planned that in advance, he most likely had a ground survival plan as well. I strongly believe that even if McCoy was not DB Cooper, he still makes for a strong argument that Cooper could have survived.

I don't know what to think about this case, but I do know that there's a song (originally recorded in 1980) that references it called "The Passenger" by the group Wall Of Voodoo (same group that had the song "Mexican Radio", for those of you that might have grown up in the early '80's or just know about music from the early '80's, like myself).

I would post a video of them performing it just for kicks, but I'm assuming that "the forbidden site" is still forbidden on here.

I don't know what to think about this case, but I do know that there's a song (originally recorded in 1980) that references it called "The Passenger" by the group Wall Of Voodoo (same group that had the song "Mexican Radio", for those of you that might have grown up in the early '80's or just know about music from the early '80's, like myself).

I would post a video of them performing it just for kicks, but I'm assuming that "the forbidden site" is still forbidden on here.

Yes it is. But thanks for the reference! :)

For me, whenever I think about this case, I'm reminded of that horrible Seth Green/Dax Shepard/Matthew Lillard movie "Without a Paddle" where they go searching for D.B.'s treasure. I saw it my first week of law school. Never going to win any Oscars, but it did the trick to take my mind off things.

D.B. Cooper. We have really debated this guy back and forth, haven't we? I, for one, still have no idea what to think...

I've finally seen all of the latest cooper documentaries. They really were overkill and focused on a lot of poor suspects imo. I saw an FBI files case on McCoy and the agent involved with him thinks that he is cooper. I think that is most likely the case. I was not aware how bold and ruthless McCoy was.

Yes it is. But thanks for the reference! :)

For me, whenever I think about this case, I'm reminded of that horrible Seth Green/Dax Shepard/Matthew Lillard movie "Without a Paddle" where they go searching for D.B.'s treasure. I saw it my first week of law school. Never going to win any Oscars, but it did the trick to take my mind off things.

D.B. Cooper. We have really debated this guy back and forth, haven't we? I, for one, still have no idea what to think...

What if I find a video of them performing it and it's from a different site/source: would it be okay then?

What if I find a video of them performing it and it's from a different site/source: would it be okay then?

I think so. I think it's just a forbidden side thing.

The videos of them performing it are only on "the forbidden site", so this is the best I can do without breaking the site rules:

http://www.songlyrics.com/wall-of-voodoo/the-passenger-lyrics/

I just had another idea as to what may have happened to the remaining money, assuming Cooper survived the jump.

Remember the film The Italian Job? The scene between Edward Norton's character and the jeweler he's been selling the gold to, where he confronts him about what he may know about the gold's origin (he heard a rumor about the Venice heist). He ruthlessly murders the jeweler then takes both the gold he was gonna sell that night along with the money he was supposed to be paid with and tries to cover his tracks afterwards, not knowing he was caught on camera.

DB Cooper could have pulled off a similar ploy with a third party he may have been involved with, which could have been smugglers, drug dealers, mobsters, etc. He might have used the money to "buy" alternative goods, ripped off the illicit merchant in a similar fashion then destroyed the money; this way he would have had assets to exchange for "clean" money that would never link him to the original hijacking.

As I posted earlier in the thread...

I think there's a very good chance it was McCoy. Too many things with him add up to DB Cooper.

I just found this site after watching Unsolved for the first time in decades! Amazon Prime is worth the price with the streaming videos like Unsolved Mysteries. I agree with some of the earlier posters in the belief that Richard McCoy is was "DB Cooper". I have a feeling the FBI wanted to perpetuate the DB Cooper myth for some strange reasons only they know.

I just found this site after watching Unsolved for the first time in decades! Amazon Prime is worth the price with the streaming videos like Unsolved Mysteries. I agree with some of the earlier posters in the belief that Richard McCoy is was "DB Cooper". I have a feeling the FBI wanted to perpetuate the DB Cooper myth for some strange reasons only they know.

Welcome! :wave: Your name is killing me! :)

I just found this site after watching Unsolved for the first time in decades! Amazon Prime is worth the price with the streaming videos like Unsolved Mysteries. I agree with some of the earlier posters in the belief that Richard McCoy is was "DB Cooper". I have a feeling the FBI wanted to perpetuate the DB Cooper myth for some strange reasons only they know.
Welcome. Yes amazon is amazing!

I tend to think there are some That are critical of the way the FBI office with jurisdiction has withheld information(long afterward) and perhaps made mistakes in gathering/keeping evidence. It was perhaps better for their reputation to focus publicly on coopers failure rather than to admit he possibly got away and remained unidentifiable.

There is An FBI files documentary on McCoy that is worth watching if you have not seen it. The FBI investigator in that case believes McCoy was cooper. I agree that McCoy is the best suspect.

I am reposting this part from robertblevins post How come they didn't find any of the money in circulation?

Answer: Larry Carr, the current FBI Special Agent in charge of the case, admitted in a 2008 radio interview (see DB Cooper Wiki page) that most banks gave up checking their incoming 20's within the first three months. Why? The list issued to banks was 34 pages long, with several rows of numbers per page, and the numbers were NON-sequential. It was a huge headache for the banks. There is more about this in the book, especially on how Kenny laundered the money. One big myth about the Cooper case is that the Treasury Department was checking all incoming bills against the numbers on the hijack list. (businesses, individuals, and banks send in thousands a day for replacement). This is not true. The only reason the Vancouver money was linked to the hijacking was because it was turned in to the FBI instead of Treasury.

Has any money from the ransom been found except for the $5,800 on the Columbia River in 1980?

Yes. Two thousand in twenties was found in a pile of stumps on Christiansen's old property in Bonney Lake, WA about five years after he died. This would equal exactly one bundle of the ransom money. It was discovered after the new owners sold off the trees to a logging company. They turned in this money to their bank, who in turn sent it in to Treasury for replacement. No one at Treasury checked the numbers. They simply verified the bills were genuine and issued a check (about $1,500) for the bills that could still be read. Then they destroyed the bills. The entire story is covered in the book.


Read more: theories about DB Cooper - Page 3 - Sitcoms Online Message Boards - Forums http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=252245&page=3#ixzz4hfS19vSz

makes a lot of sense and people posted after that and just ignored it


So does Federal Reserve literally check every single bill? Maybe with today's technology, but I have a hard time believing that there was a department or person sitting there getting paid to review each bill as it came in at the time.

However, if LE is CERTAIN the money was never in circulation, that leads me to believe more than ever that Cooper really was McCoy....the money somehow got lost, but he knew he could pull it off, hence the motivation to try it again a few months later.

I always thought it would be impossible for anyone to trace the money from this case. There are so many avenues one could go down to spend this money where it wouldn't end up in a bank or at the treasury department. Especially with the lack of computing power back then. I've thought its been McCoy for a long time and I will continue to think so until there is evidence to prove otherwise.

I just found this site after watching Unsolved for the first time in decades! Amazon Prime is worth the price with the streaming videos like Unsolved Mysteries. I agree with some of the earlier posters in the belief that Richard McCoy is was "DB Cooper". I have a feeling the FBI wanted to perpetuate the DB Cooper myth for some strange reasons only they know.

Ralph Himmelsbach was the FBI man in charge of the investigation. He was a McCoy doubter. He wanted all the little details to fit as opposed to relying on big picture logic. Since Himmelsbach shaped the investigation but made basic errors in judgment throughout, the FBI was essentially on tilt and that's how the Cooper myth perpetuated. It was more incompetent than intent.

Welcome to the forum. About a decade ago we had a marathon DB Cooper thread with focus on the obscure, "DB Cooper, The Real McCoy," book and its assertion that Richard Floyd McCoy was indeed Cooper. I posted many aspects of that book in the thread.

Frankly, those segments and details are otherwise missing from the internet. McCoy doubters don't like those details and are paranoid about removing them from Wikipedia pages and elsewhere. For example, the McCoy theory loses plenty of steam without the twist that McCoy made a very strange and otherwise unexplainable drive from Provo to Las Vegas in the wee hours preceding the Cooper event. The theory is that McCoy drove to Las Vegas and then flew to the Pacific Northwest to begin the Cooper caper. To complete the theory, he was prepared for everything but the weight/burden of the cash so he lost the vast majority of the money during the jump and decided to do it again, but without the annoying complications like disguising his departure point. Credit card receipts place McCoy on the drive to Las Vegas but then he apparently vaporizes for 36 hours before making a collect phone call from the Tropicana Hotel (nearest hotel to the airport) back to his Provo home the night after the Cooper skyjacking.

I would estimate that fewer than 2% of people who have followed the DB Cooper case are aware of that bizarre drive. None of the major television programs dedicated to the case mention it, including the ones favorable to McCoy as Cooper.

That's how a myth perpetuates, as you accurately put it. For example, take away the knowledge that Lee Harvey Oswald brought the rifle to the School Book Depository that morning, or the knowledge that he killed Officer Tippett later in the day, and that JFK case would carry even a greater percentage believing in a vast conspiracy.

The McCoy doubters suffer from incomplete information, while Ralph Himmelsbach suffered from inability to translate the information he did have. The focus in true crime cases is always on the family first. In this case family carries a vastly different meaning. Family is the one person who is known to have pulled off a virtually identical skyjacking, and within months. That shouldn't be a complicated transition. But the FBI and others seemingly have no clue that you can't move casually from suspect to suspect in this case, as if it were a run of the mill murder investigation.

The FBI was quickly aware of the bizarre wee hour drive. I don't have the book with me right now but from memory the teletype (reprinted in the book) with the information came within a week after Richard McCoy was apprehended after the second skyjacking. Himmelsbach fixated on discrepancies like reported eye color while others in the FBI split away and sensed that overview variables favored McCoy. When I called the co-author of the book -- Russell Calame -- he astutely summarized that, "the preponderance of evidence (favors McCoy as Cooper)."

I get frustrated when people like Ralph Himmelsbach arrive at duties they have no business holding. It is exponentially more widespread than conventional wisdom allows. We have seen high profile examples recently. But I can pick and choose which cases I comment on here. I tend to favor the ones in which my approach fits best, and avoid the ones where it wouldn't work. An investigator or prosecutor rarely has that luxury. I concede as much. Consequently a Ralph Himmelsbach may be perfectly capable at a routine Point A to Point Z case, while he was brutally overmatched in this instance.

It's too bad that marathon thread was locked. It held many goodies, including that the Utah Air National Guard personnel literally laughed on the phone when I told them that Ralph Himmelsbach and the FBI were asserting that Richard McCoy was on Guard duty in Los Angeles during the Thanksgiving weekend of the Cooper skyjacking. I was on speaker with two representatives, and I can still hear both of them breaking into immediate laughter: "No, I guarantee we didn't do that." The FBI curiously went back to the version with McCoy enjoying dinner in Provo at the time of the Cooper event, even though countless evidence points otherwise. As Calame told me, "We conclusively proved he wasn't there."

Calame also shed great light on the notion that McCoy's widow "won" a court settlement against the book. Many McCoy doubters use that as proof that McCoy was not Cooper. Calame told me that, "Our lawyers had her (Karen McCoy) on the ropes several times (during her testimony)."

According to Calame, Karen McCoy realized an obscure book wouldn't impact her life or the life of her family. But a related motion picture had that potential. She was suing to avoid a movie. Calame told me that he and principal author Bernie Rhodes were too old and tired to care about a movie, so they agreed to forego the rights and agree that a movie would not be made.

I don't know what to think about this case, but I do know that there's a song (originally recorded in 1980) that references it called "The Passenger" by the group Wall Of Voodoo (same group that had the song "Mexican Radio", for those of you that might have grown up in the early '80's or just know about music from the early '80's, like myself).

I would post a video of them performing it just for kicks, but I'm assuming that "the forbidden site" is still forbidden on here.

I remember that other song (around 1986?) they had - "Far side of crazy" :)

I've always wondered if Cooper took the money and retired to another country that used the US dollar as currency. Since some have suggested Cooper had military experience, the most obvious choice would be Panama. There was such a fluid population of Americans in 1971, that he may have been able to skip off to one of the islands or up to David and live in obscurity with other ex-pats. Some of the Pacific or Caribbean island nations would also be possible.

Just a thought.

I've always wondered if Cooper took the money and retired to another country that used the US dollar as currency. Since some have suggested Cooper had military experience, the most obvious choice would be Panama. There was such a fluid population of Americans in 1971, that he may have been able to skip off to one of the islands or up to David and live in obscurity with other ex-pats. Some of the Pacific or Caribbean island nations would also be possible.

Just a thought.

Necco!! Welcome back! Or have you just been lurking?

I've always wondered if Cooper took the money and retired to another country that used the US dollar as currency. Since some have suggested Cooper had military experience, the most obvious choice would be Panama. There was such a fluid population of Americans in 1971, that he may have been able to skip off to one of the islands or up to David and live in obscurity with other ex-pats. Some of the Pacific or Caribbean island nations would also be possible.

Just a thought.

Dollars to donuts the skyjacker who called himself Dan Cooper is not sitting poolside in Panama drinking a pina colada

Necco!! Welcome back! Or have you just been lurking?

Nope, I'm back. Life keeps interfering with my love of Unsolved Mysteries. Silly life. Thanks for the welcome!

Dollars to donuts the skyjacker who called himself Dan Cooper is not sitting poolside in Panama drinking a pina colada

http://www.buttcoinfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/14032-milton-on-the-beach.jpg

http://www.buttcoinfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/14032-milton-on-the-beach.jpg
Love that movie

Dollars to donuts the skyjacker who called himself Dan Cooper is not sitting poolside in Panama drinking a pina colada

Well, that would just be silly.

Why would he sit poolside when he could get to either ocean in like 60 miles? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Has the case been finally solved..https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/the-search-for-db-cooper-investigators-say-theyve-confirmed-skyjackers-identity-by-decoding-long-lost-confession/ar-AAzjyHl?ocid=spartanntp

Has the case been finally solved..https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/the-search-for-db-cooper-investigators-say-theyve-confirmed-skyjackers-identity-by-decoding-long-lost-confession/ar-AAzjyHl?ocid=spartanntp

It was solved 45 years ago.

https://www.oregonlive.com/expo/news/erry-2018/11/e18eba2aa14557/new-suspect-in-db-cooper-skyja.html?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=oregonian_sf&utm_source=twitter

https://expo.advance.net/img/913cbc4acb/width960/230_cooper7.jpeg

Where's the money?

Every bill eventually makes its way back to the Fed for destruction. The average lifespan of bills is between 8 to 15 years for the $20 to $100 range.

Every serial number of the Cooper money is known.

Even if the money were spent overseas.. Eventually, it comes back to the Fed. Where is it?

Not one bill has ever turned up in circulation or been returned to the Fed for destruction. Not one. The only trace was the $5880 found by Brian Ingram in 1980. A few months before the area was covered in volcanic ash by Mount Saint Helens.


With that fact. There are two scenarios. One.. He died in the jump.. Or two, he got away and never spent a dime (We can branch off here and say that is due to either losing the money in the jump, or 'other' reasons for not spending the $200k you got)

Any of the theories that say he gambled the money away.. Used it to buy houses.. Those can pretty much be discounted immediately.

http://www.buttcoinfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/14032-milton-on-the-beach.jpg

:rofl: :rofl:

With respect to McCoy, did anyone who came in contact with Cooper (notably the flight attendants) confirm whether or not they thought McCoy was the guy? For as much time as they spent interacting, it seems like they would be best suited to positively identify him as Richard McCoy if indeed it was him. I’ve always wondered that but can’t seem to find any source stating whether or not that is the case. If not, that seems like a pretty strong point against it being him

With respect to McCoy, did anyone who came in contact with Cooper (notably the flight attendants) confirm whether or not they thought McCoy was the guy? For as much time as they spent interacting, it seems like they would be best suited to positively identify him as Richard McCoy if indeed it was him. I’ve always wondered that but can’t seem to find any source stating whether or not that is the case. If not, that seems like a pretty strong point against it being him

McCoy did not match the flight attendant descriptions perfectly, but it was JUST enough off that I doubt it was him. I haven't heard anywhere that the flight attendants said it wasn't him, but.. They don't talk much, so, that's not overly surprising. He was 31, while Cooper was mid-40's.. He was 6'2, while Cooper was described as 5'10" to 6 foot and was about 20-30 pounds heavier than the Cooper description.

McCoy was a copycat. A pretty bad one at that. That's my opinion.

http://www.buttcoinfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/14032-milton-on-the-beach.jpg

The only reason he's doing that is because he got his stapler back.

The only reason he's doing that is because he got his stapler back.

so to tie the picture into the story. maybe it was a disgruntled employee. There are so many people who are sure it was McCoy. I am not sure, but this is one case that I have spent too much time watching. There are too many rabbit holes.

so to tie the picture into the story. maybe it was a disgruntled employee. There are so many people who are sure it was McCoy. I am not sure, but this is one case that I have spent too much time watching. There are too many rabbit holes.

One of the better clues.. My opinion.. Is the titanium traces found on the tie clip.

The DNA is PRESUMED to be his, but that can't necessarily be proven.

But, titanium was a very rare metal at the time, moreso than it is today, and it's still fairly rare today.. So, those traces of titanium would seem to be a very good clue. And a few of the suspects have ties that would put them in contact with titanium.

You would hope that the FBI has developed that DNA sample and has tossed it out into GEDMatch to see if they can develop a relationship match to track back to a person.

To me, right now, that has the best chance of definitively saying who it was.

I've just been doing a deep dive on the DB Cooper case...McCoy is very compelling, but how did he survive that jump? And why wasn't the money spent? (Did he just lose the money and tried again in 1972?)

Moreover, wouldn't the flight attendants have been able to identify Floyd? It was only a few months after the DB Cooper hijacking that Floyd was captured; it's not like it was 25 years later. That being said, I do think Floyd is an EXTREMELY likely suspect.

I've just been doing a deep dive on the DB Cooper case...McCoy is very compelling, but how did he survive that jump? And why wasn't the money spent? (Did he just lose the money and tried again in 1972?)

Moreover, wouldn't the flight attendants have been able to identify Floyd? It was only a few months after the DB Cooper hijacking that Floyd was captured; it's not like it was 25 years later. That being said, I do think Floyd is an EXTREMELY likely suspect.


There's the million dollar question.. Or.. What was it in this case, the $250k question?

To me, it's also the #1 reason to suspect that he didn't survive the jump. We know the money wasn't spent. People can have all these fanciful ideas but not a single bill of the money has ever turned up in circulation. He didn't launder it at a casino, he didn't do it overseas.. So any theory on this, you have to go back and answer that question first. What happened to the money?

Now, I can accept if someone says "He lost it in the jump".. But the 'confessions' where they say they spent the money.. That pretty much eliminates them in my eyes.

The DB Cooper case, if it was the plot of a movie, would be so outlandish people would think it was ridiculous. I can't believe there is such a thing as an "unsolved" skyjack! Granted, there's only one, but the whole thing is beyond wild.

This article:
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/2018/08/03/db-cooper-suspects-include-robert-rackstraw-false-confessions-woman/865813002/

is pretty amusing! Among the suspects include John List(!), some random guy who was clearly playing a prank on his deathbed ("I'm Dan Cooper," he whispered) and a transgender woman named Barbara Dayton:

"Feeling resentful of the FAA and mired in a depression following her gender reassignment, Dayton decided to pull off an airborne heist."

I know whenever I'm feeling depressed, I typically pull off airborne heists to snap out of it :lol:

My theory is simple. He died that evening when he hit the ground, possibly before he hit the ground. This man jumped out of a plane at 10,000 feet over a heavily wooded area during a rainstorm. There is no way he could have survived that. It was such a remote area, his body could have been there for years, even decades, before anyone would ever find it. Then I think the eruption at Mt. St. Helens destroyed anything that was left of him. The other telling thing is that none of that $200K was ever spent and about $5K was found in a river eight years later. Over the years, so many people have claimed they knew him personally and some have even made deathbed confessions that they ARE DB Cooper. I do remember one woman claiming that DB Cooper was her uncle, a man by the name of Lynn Doyle Cooper, who died in 1999. She was eight years old at the time of the hijacking and said she remembers it being talked about in the family. The photo of her uncle had an eerie resemblance to the sketches of the hijacker. The FBI was unable to disprove that her uncle was DB Cooper but they also couldn't prove it.

I was reading a reddit thread on our man Dan Cooper the other day and came across an interesting suspect I haven't seen mentioned here yet:

Ted Braden.

This info. is copied and pasted from Reddit; here is the link:

https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/pu8eoj/either_hes_rotting_in_a_forest_or_a_grave_and_if/

"My money is on Ted Braden. If you could invent a DB Cooper suspect you'd invent Ted Braden. Check it out:

- Braden was a paratrooper in WWII (jumped on D-Day with the 101st at age 16), Korea, and Vietnam.

- He won multiple international skydiving competitions while a member of the Army.

- 911 logged jumps with the military and was a pioneer of HALO jumping

- Was recruited to be a team leader in the MACV-SOG's. This was the predecessor to Delta Force and was a multi-service covert military special force run by the CIA.

- Led squads on covert jumps into Laos, Cambodia, and Northern Vietnam from 64-67.

- Did many of these jumps into enemy territory off the aft stairs of....that's right...Boeing 727's. At the time of the skyjacking, the only people who knew this could be done were those involved in these MACV-SOG missions and some employees at Boeing.

- Was always bitching about how he and his fellow soldiers weren't paid enough. Was always coming up with schemes to make/extort/steal money while in the service.

- In 1967, he heard about how people were looking for mercenaries to fight in the Congolese Civil War and how well they would be paying, so he went AWOL from Vietnam and made his way to the Congo. The CIA went after him and eventually found and arrested him in the Congo.

- Was imprisoned at Fort Dix for a very brief time and mysteriously was never convicted of anything, nor tried, and was merely given an honorable discharge and told that he couldn't re-enlist in the military.

- Once released he tried to go overseas to be a mercenary again and found out that his name had been blacklisted by the CIA and so he wasn't allowed to leave the country to be a mercenary.

- Not knowing how to make a living other than by being a soldier, he resorted to being a truck driver. His trucking company was stationed out of Vancouver (interesting).

- When the Cooper hijacking happened, several members of the military contacted the FBI and essentially said "this can only be Ted Braden"

- Braden had no family, so there wasn't anyone around to in retrospect said "hey, Dad wasn't around during Thanksgiving 1971".

- His alibi was that he was driving his truck.

On the plane:
- Cooper was by everyone who remembered him as being "middle-aged" or "mid-40's". Braden was 44.
- Cooper was described as being 5'8-5'10 and slight. Braden was 5'9 and 150lbs.
- Cooper was described as being somewhat olive skinned and swarthy. Braden's mother's side were Sicilian.
- Cooper was extremely calm the entire time. The only time he showed any emotion was when he was arguing with the pilots because he wanted to take off from Seattle with the stairs down. They didn't think it could be done. Cooper told them it absolutely could be done and he demanded it be done. The pilots simply refused to do so, thinking it would cause the plane to crash, and Cooper eventually relented. Braden was described by many of his military colleagues and commanding officers as one of the calmest people under fire you could imagine.
- Cooper smoked Raleigh cigarettes and so did Braden.
- Cooper was described by both flight attendants who spoke with him as having either a midwestern accent or no accent. Brayden was from Ohio.
- Cooper chose the military parachute over the more modern sport parachute.
- When asked by the flight attendant why he was doing this, he replied "I don't have a grudge against your airline, Miss, I just have a grudge." Braden certainly had a grudge against the government for blacklisting him from the only work for which he was skilled at: being a soldier.
- The alias "Dan Cooper". "Dan Cooper" was the name of a popular 50's and 60's French language comic book series. The hero, Dan Cooper, skydived into areas to fight the bad guys. What is a country whose official language is French? The Congo. If Braden was Cooper, then it's extremely plausible that he was exposed to this comic series while serving in the Congo.

Following the hijacking:

- Recent investigation shows that in 1972, despite being a truck driver, he bought his mother a new car as well as a new car for himself, and that he was living in a freaking penthouse in Manhattan.

- Was arrested in the mid-70's for a major racketeering job in the trucking industry, but like his mysterious release from going AWOL, he was once again given a slap on the wrist and the charges were dropped.
His personality:

- He was always a loner and never had close friends in his life. Men he served with would later say that when they would go to the bars, Braden would sit at the end of the bar by himself just seeming to sulk.

- A Green Beret who served with him stated "Braden is among those professionals who appear to have a secret death wish coupled with well-trained instincts for survival. He continually placed himself in unnecessary danger but always managed to get away with it."

- Another Special Forces member stated "he was the perfect combination of high intelligence and criminality"

- Military tests that he took for entrance into the MACV-SOG's indicated that he likely possessed a genius level IQ.
Couple things to consider:

- Jumping out of a freaking jumbo jet is no small potatoes. Many of the famous Cooper suspects had been static-line paratroopers in WWII or even had no known skydiving experience at all. You'd need to have mega balls to jump out of a jet and also have the skill set to do it. Perhaps most critically, you'd need to know that it could even be freaking done in the first place! There were several Cooper copycats who successfully pulled off similar skyjackings of 727's in the months after Cooper, but to be the guy who first did it? That takes someone special.

- The suitcase bomb. While this is a common trope you see in movies these days, it wasn't so in 1971. The whole concept of a suitcase bomb required some ingenuity.

- His calmness is especially noteworthy when you consider that the subsequent copycats were nervous wrecks during their skyjackings, despite being badasses in their own right.

Richard McCoy won a Distinguished Flying Cross and a Silver Star in Vietnam as a chopper pilot. He literally flew hundreds of sorties as a chopper pilot. Yet during his skyjacking he was noted (even before he started the skyjacking) for being fidgety and sweating and breathing heavy. Robb Heady also successfully pulled of a 727 skyjacking. He was a 21 year old Vietnam paratrooper who served two tours in the thickest fighting in Vietnam and yet he later described himself as being barely able to breath during his skyjacking. Cooper, on the other hand, sat calmly for five hours, smoking cigarettes and drinking his bourbon and coke, with one hand on the detonator (the flight attendant lit his cigarettes for him). It's also worth noting that none of the copycats gave any specific instructions to the pilots on how to fly the 727. They just jumped out with the jet going full speed and it nearly killed two of them. What Cooper told the pilots wasn't public knowledge at the time. Cooper told them to fly at 180 knots, wheels down, with flaps at 15 degrees, and at 10,000 feet. That's mighty specific and strongly indicates that Cooper had knowledge of how best to safely parachute out of a 727. Cooper was also the only one to not be caught. Getting caught on his missions with Spec Ops meant certain death. This is a man who knew how to escape situations and blend into his environment.

Occam's Razor would point toward Ted Braden being DB Cooper: One of the military's most experienced skydivers is kicked out of the service and isn't allowed to pursue a lucrative career as a mercenary so he uses the skills that the military taught him to ransom $200k from the government."

I was reading a reddit thread on our man Dan Cooper the other day and came across an interesting suspect I haven't seen mentioned here yet:

Ted Braden.


Ok.. i'm going to say right now. Haven't read your post yet. But, all that goes through my head right now is the "Family Guy" where Stewie is beating the crap out of Brian saying "Where's my money?"

Because that's my question IMMEDIATELY.. Where's the money?

Now, I'll read.

ok.. So.. Red flag early on. Paratrooper. I.. Waffle on him being an expert. i tend to think probably it's someone who had SOME skydiving experience, but not a whole lot. He jumped with a dummy chute. Not smart.

Ok.. WOW.. They focus on the paratrooper stuff. But, nothing about a vendetta against Northwest.. Which.. Many seem to believe is a prerequisite. Nothing about him knowing about the 'feature' of the 727 and aft stairwell.

Jesus.. "Smoked Cigarettes".. Who DIDN'T then?

Yeah.. And there's the deal killer.. They say he spent the money. Sorry. That ends it for me. None of that money turned up in circulation. EVER.

Again.. "Where's the money? Huh? You got the money" Where's the money? Gettin' tired of you duckin' me, man"

This link below is the only meaningful new update on the DB Cooper case. It received very little attention because the industry devoted to this case doesn’t want it solved, especially with the simplest explanation. They profit and mesmerize via sustained comprehensive nonsense, like the recent Eric Ulis buffoonery.

I haven’t posted here in years. Good to see so many familiar user names during a quick scroll. Remarkable loyalty on this forum.

This will likely be a marathon comment, because I remember offering the theory more than 15 years ago, here and elsewhere…that nothing of consequence would happen until Karen McCoy died. She was the widow of Richard Floyd McCoy.

And that’s exactly how it has played out. Karen McCoy died in December 2020. Both of McCoy’s children have now come forward, saying that their mother told them on numerous occasions that McCoy was DB Cooper and that she helped him plan both heists. McCoy was nabbed after a nearly identical hijacking 5 months later.

Here is the link. Very good long article. I recommend reading the entirety:

https://www.the-sun.com/news/10437362/db-cooper-dad-dna-copycat-skyjacker-update-evidence/

A few segments:

“Rick McCoy and his sister, Chante, claim their mom also confessed to helping McCoy plan the Cooper hijacking but waited until after her passing to come forward with the information to shield her from prosecution.”

<snip>

"Here's what my mother told me," he said. "She told me during the hijacks - plural - that none of the weapons were live and his whole thing was he was either going to make it or they'd kill him, but he wasn't going to harm anyone.”

<snip>

Just like the inexplicable wee hour drive to Las Vegas, there are logbooks that make no sense unless McCoy was Cooper:

“Of those logbooks, Rick shared, "Leading up to the Cooper jump in November [1971], there's a whole bunch of practice jumps logged, and then there's a lull in jumps, except for one that he did right before the second hijacking.

"I also had a copy of his jump instructor's logbook and the dates for the jumps listed line up perfectly. The FBI has that logbook too, now."

***

The tie and tie clasp are mentioned deep in the article, along with McCoy suddenly being able to afford first class plane tickets to fly the family to North Carolina for Christmas. The tie and tie clasp were first revealed and shown during the excellent 2001 documentary, “Flight from Justice, The True Story of DB Cooper.” That documentary is widely available free, including on Tubi.

Sigh. I wish Rick McCoy had not gone to the FBI. It’s obvious he has never followed the investigation. That is not an unbiased organization, not on this matter. Russell Calame told me as much during the phone call 15+ years ago. He said, (paraphrased, best from memory), “They want nothing to do with McCoy.”

I’m sure nothing has changed 15 years later. Ralph Himmelsbach directed the investigation away from McCoy because he stubbornly refused to believe the same guy got the best of the system twice. Somebody like that is only going to hire and promote agents who share the same bias. Fifty years is not enough to fully cleanse the line of command. I doubt Rick McCoy will ever get the logbook back, or that McCoy as Cooper will receive fair evaluation. The handful of agents who broke away and wrote books on McCoy, and cooperated with scattered televised programs, did so only because they already understood the foolish agency slant.

IMO, Rick McCoy should have gone to something like the Vidocq Society. A group like that would quickly and emphatically name McCoy as Cooper, IMO. If that type of pronouncement reached mainstream media it would garner attention and make it considerably more difficult for the felons of probability to continue to brainwash the public.

For one thing, the Vidocq Society would instantly throw out the notion that Cooper died from the jump. That theory is a classic example of FBI ignorance and bungling. It wasn’t suggested immediately or early or logically. Nobody was saying he obviously didn’t survive in these conditions. Parachutes have been known to overcome quite a bit, including user error. Hence the astronomical success rate.

Cooper dying during the jump only became a popular rationale after they couldn’t find him. That is bass akwards. The Vidocq Society would quickly understand as much.

As I’ve always emphasized, once you get beyond the shell games and desperation to examine every irrelevancy, all foundational and tangible points to McCoy.

Regardless, this was by far my favorite segment of the article, the notion that McCoy would be furious he isn’t linked as DB Cooper and receiving credit as such. I fully agree:

“She told the siblings she was complicit in both crimes and that their father would be annoyed about not getting any credit for Cooper's feat.

"The overall theme of what she told us was that my mother was involved in everything and to keep our mouths shut," Rick recounted.

"There were lots of secrets and a lot of stuff I’d hear was conversations between adults and things like that, but it was beat into us not to talk about it.

"She would say, ‘Your dad would be upset that he didn’t get the credit [for DB Cooper]. The credit that he deserved,’ and all that type of stuff.

"She told us she was involved in both of the hijackings and helped him plan them, but she always made it seem - and I’ll call BS on this - that he forced her into doing it. And trust me, nobody was forcing my mother to do anything."


***

BTW, i post primarily on Reddit now. I’m sure I’ll post this there at some point. But I wanted it to be here first. This is where I began emphasizing McCoy as Cooper, more than 20 years ago. I even had an old Army buddy of McCoy’s send me a private message, saying he emphatically agreed and had been waiting 40 years to read someone else making the connection. He said the entire unit agreed. They all remembered McCoy talking about that plane and how easy it would be to breach.

There was an extremely lengthy McCoy thread here that was either locked or deleted. That sapped my energy and was the primary season I stopped posting here. No hard feelings. I just didn’t agree. Frustrating. It was a lot of work. And I’m sure that thread is where I posed that nothing would happen until Karen McCoy died.

This was never an unsolved mystery, merely an unacknowledged solution.

The other post was long enough. I didn't want to bury this video (specified at bottom) within the other comment. Dan Gryder has had some legal issues with other cases but he's done tremendous job on the video site with the McCoy as Cooper connection.

I'll refer to the final 18 minutes of his video, which lasts nearly 3 hours. The entirety is worthwhile but I wanted to spotlight the aspects which shoot down the FBI theories, and also includes interviews with 4 key players.

First is Bernie Rhodes, the author of "DB Cooper, the Real McCoy." His co-author Russell Calame, who I spoke to at length, has passed away. Fortunately Rhodes was still available to sit down for an interview with Gryder. They deal with McCoy's Thanksgiving alibi, and the issue of McCoy losing the money during the Cooper jump.

Next is McCoy's sister in law Denise. She initially told the FBI that McCoy was home for Thanksgiving in 1971. Apparently the FBI swallowed it whole and used it as impenetrable bias for excluding McCoy as Cooper. Now Denise says she was asked by the McCoys to babysit the two kids for 3-4 days while on Thanksgiving break from Ricks College. She says both Richard and Karen McCoy were gone, after telling her they were going to California. This makes a great deal of sense to me. I always wondered how McCoy got back to Las Vegas after the Cooper heist. It's a heck of a lot more manageable if Karen went to the Pacfic Northwest also, perhaps on a different flight.

Lastly are the two McCoy kids, reading prepared text while conceding they have been living a life of secrets. I give them credit for coming forward. In particular I enjoyed this line from Rick, summarizing his father between heists as, "amazed at the complete stupidity and incompetence of the FBI."

Indeed, and ongoing. I've long argued that McCoy got overconfident and took too many risks during the second hijacking because he had 4+ months to follow the Cooper investigation and had to be in complete hysterics throughout.

The daughter speaks very well from McCoy's gravesite, including a list of her mother's accomplishments after rebuilding her life following Richard's death, including earning a masters degree and PhD:

On edit: I linked the video initially until remembering that isn't allowed around here. Sorry about that. It's been a long time. On the so-called forbidden site go to, "D.B. Cooper Deep family secrets. Part 1" and advance to 2:29:28

The other post was long enough. I didn't want to bury this video (specified at bottom) within the other comment. Dan Gryder has had some legal issues with other cases but he's done tremendous job on the video site with the McCoy as Cooper connection.

I'll refer to the final 18 minutes of his video, which lasts nearly 3 hours. The entirety is worthwhile but I wanted to spotlight the aspects which shoot down the FBI theories, and also includes interviews with 4 key players.

First is Bernie Rhodes, the author of "DB Cooper, the Real McCoy." His co-author Russell Calame, who I spoke to at length, has passed away. Fortunately Rhodes was still available to sit down for an interview with Gryder. They deal with McCoy's Thanksgiving alibi, and the issue of McCoy losing the money during the Cooper jump.

Next is McCoy's sister in law Denise. She initially told the FBI that McCoy was home for Thanksgiving in 1971. Apparently the FBI swallowed it whole and used it as impenetrable bias for excluding McCoy as Cooper. Now Denise says she was asked by the McCoys to babysit the two kids for 3-4 days while on Thanksgiving break from Ricks College. She says both Richard and Karen McCoy were gone, after telling her they were going to California. This makes a great deal of sense to me. I always wondered how McCoy got back to Las Vegas after the Cooper heist. It's a heck of a lot more manageable if Karen went to the Pacfic Northwest also, perhaps on a different flight.

Lastly are the two McCoy kids, reading prepared text while conceding they have been living a life of secrets. I give them credit for coming forward. In particular I enjoyed this line from Rick, summarizing his father between heists as, "amazed at the complete stupidity and incompetence of the FBI."

Indeed, and ongoing. I've long argued that McCoy got overconfident and took too many risks during the second hijacking because he had 4+ months to follow the Cooper investigation and had to be in complete hysterics throughout.

The daughter speaks very well from McCoy's gravesite, including a list of her mother's accomplishments after rebuilding her life following Richard's death, including earning a masters degree and PhD:

On edit: I linked the video initially until remembering that isn't allowed around here. Sorry about that. It's been a long time. On the so-called forbidden site go to, "D.B. Cooper Deep family secrets. Part 1" and advance to 2:29:28

Here's where I have problems with McCoy as DB Cooper.

Now, first off.. I preface this by saying.. I think Cooper went splat that night.. But.. Like Earhart.. I can 'play along' with the other theories, even though I think the most probable there is that she crashed and sank. After all.. I *COULD* be wrong in thinking he went splat or that Earhart crashed and sank.

But.. Let's look at McCoy's known jump and compare and contrast with Cooper's.. because it's really kinda night and day. One of them was.. To a large extent.. Picture perfect. The other was almost a comedy of errors.

So, the first thing is what happened BEFORE the jump. McCoy couldn't keep his mouth shut. In fact, bragging to friends that he could do what Cooper did is one thing that got him caught.

Another thing that got him caught was hitchhiking away after the jump, while wearing a jumpsuit. Since we don't know what happened to Cooper, we can't really compare here, but.. That was kinda dumb. I mean, pack what you wore on the plane into the duffel so you can change once on the ground..

They matched his handwriting to the note. Which he left behind. IIRC, the ONLY thing that Cooper left behind was that tie with the clip. Couple that with the above, if Cooper wore a jumpsuit, which is possible.. He took his 'normal' clothes with him.

Cooper had a (presumably) fake bomb in a briefcase.. McCoy had a hand grenade and a gun in his pocket. Yeah, that one is a product of the times when you think about it, huh?

McCoy's known jump, he did over Utah.. Where he lived. The old saying.. You don't crap where you eat.

And.. Back to my old standby.. Where's the money? When the FBI got McCoy, he had all but $30 of the ransom at his house.. Where was the $250k from the Cooper hijacking?


There's more.. But the way the hijackings were done.. I just can't see the same person doing them, because each was so different. Cooper's was perfection. McCoy's was amateur hour in comparison. How could the same person go from clockwork precision to three stooges?

I have to believe, due to that, McCoy was the Sam's Club Cola of hijackings.. While Cooper was Coca-Cola.. The real thing.

If you put them side by side, and from a.. "professionalism" standpoint, they matched up better.. I'd be much more likely to believe that McCoy and Cooper were the same person. I'd even be more apt to believe it if the FIRST hijacking was the comedy of errors and the second one was much better.. Basically that he learned from his mistakes.

Here's where I have problems with McCoy as DB Cooper.

Now, first off.. I preface this by saying.. I think Cooper went splat that night.. But.. Like Earhart.. I can 'play along' with the other theories, even though I think the most probable there is that she crashed and sank. After all.. I *COULD* be wrong in thinking he went splat or that Earhart crashed and sank.

But.. Let's look at McCoy's known jump and compare and contrast with Cooper's.. because it's really kinda night and day. One of them was.. To a large extent.. Picture perfect. The other was almost a comedy of errors.

So, the first thing is what happened BEFORE the jump. McCoy couldn't keep his mouth shut. In fact, bragging to friends that he could do what Cooper did is one thing that got him caught.

Another thing that got him caught was hitchhiking away after the jump, while wearing a jumpsuit. Since we don't know what happened to Cooper, we can't really compare here, but.. That was kinda dumb. I mean, pack what you wore on the plane into the duffel so you can change once on the ground..

They matched his handwriting to the note. Which he left behind. IIRC, the ONLY thing that Cooper left behind was that tie with the clip. Couple that with the above, if Cooper wore a jumpsuit, which is possible.. He took his 'normal' clothes with him.

Cooper had a (presumably) fake bomb in a briefcase.. McCoy had a hand grenade and a gun in his pocket. Yeah, that one is a product of the times when you think about it, huh?

McCoy's known jump, he did over Utah.. Where he lived. The old saying.. You don't crap where you eat.

And.. Back to my old standby.. Where's the money? When the FBI got McCoy, he had all but $30 of the ransom at his house.. Where was the $250k from the Cooper hijacking?


There's more.. But the way the hijackings were done.. I just can't see the same person doing them, because each was so different. Cooper's was perfection. McCoy's was amateur hour in comparison. How could the same person go from clockwork precision to three stooges?

I have to believe, due to that, McCoy was the Sam's Club Cola of hijackings.. While Cooper was Coca-Cola.. The real thing.

If you put them side by side, and from a.. "professionalism" standpoint, they matched up better.. I'd be much more likely to believe that McCoy and Cooper were the same person. I'd even be more apt to believe it if the FIRST hijacking was the comedy of errors and the second one was much better.. Basically that he learned from his mistakes.

Not only that, but the flight crew who saw Cooper were pretty insistent it was not McCoy and felt he was much older than McCoy. And this was not an eyewitness sighting where someone just caught a fleeting glimpse of a robber fleeing or saw them only for a few minutes in a terrifying robbery, the two flight attendants spent a fair amount of time with Cooper and saw him up close. And they had to stay calm enough to deal with him making these eyewitness accounts far more reliable than most. I do find it somewhat interesting too that Cooper did not seem to be concerned with the flight attendants being able to identify him later, he did not command them at any point not to look at him and seemed calm throughout.

However with regards to your comment about the Cooper hijacking being so much better executed, there was one aspect where Cooper did not seem to be an expert which had something to do with the choice of parachutes. If indeed he died that night, that may have been a factor.

Not only that, but the flight crew who saw Cooper were pretty insistent it was not McCoy and felt he was much older than McCoy. And this was not an eyewitness sighting where someone just caught a fleeting glimpse of a robber fleeing or saw them only for a few minutes in a terrifying robbery, the two flight attendants spent a fair amount of time with Cooper and saw him up close. And they had to stay calm enough to deal with him making these eyewitness accounts far more reliable than most. I do find it somewhat interesting too that Cooper did not seem to be concerned with the flight attendants being able to identify him later, he did not command them at any point not to look at him and seemed calm throughout.

However with regards to your comment about the Cooper hijacking being so much better executed, there was one aspect where Cooper did not seem to be an expert which had something to do with the choice of parachutes. If indeed he died that night, that may have been a factor.

He didn't catch the dummy chute. Yeah. I never remember if the dummy chute was one that was left on the plane or not. If so.. Maybe he DID catch it.. But, don't take that to heart.. I just remember that there was a dummy chute involved. I may be wrong on the details

I didn't bring up the eyewitnesses.. Mainly because.. Well.. I think everyone knows my feelings on eyewitness accounts. I can't say eyewitness accounts are unreliable and often wrong.. Then lean on them for evidence when they work towards your ideas. So.. I didn't take those into consideration at all in my figuring.

Well, I say you can't.. There's PLENTY of people who will do just that, tho.. Doesn't stop them.. But I do TRY to be consistent.

He didn't catch the dummy chute. Yeah. I never remember if the dummy chute was one that was left on the plane or not. If so.. Maybe he DID catch it.. But, don't take that to heart.. I just remember that there was a dummy chute involved. I may be wrong on the details

I didn't bring up the eyewitnesses.. Mainly because.. Well.. I think everyone knows my feelings on eyewitness accounts. I can't say eyewitness accounts are unreliable and often wrong.. Then lean on them for evidence when they work towards your ideas. So.. I didn't take those into consideration at all in my figuring.

Well, I say you can't.. There's PLENTY of people who will do just that, tho.. Doesn't stop them.. But I do TRY to be consistent.

Yes, but in this instance I think you have to take them more serious. Like I pointed out, these flight attendants spent a good deal of time with Cooper and saw him up close, it wasn't one of those deals where someone just caught a glimpse of a fleeing suspect at night or saw them only for a minute from a distance.

Personally, I think he was probably Canadian from an obscure place in British Columbia or another Canadian province and just traveled to the northwestern part of the US from time to time. I say this because he took the name Dan Cooper who was a character in a comic strip that was popular in Canada but not well known in the US. Also the fact that he asked for negotiable American currency is something that an American citizen would be unlikely to ask. Furthermore according to the flight attendants he had no distinguishable accent and many Canadians do not. And if he survived and spent the money, if it was all done overseas it would explain why none of it has resurfaced. The negotiable American currency phrase leads me to believe Cooper intended to exchange it in another country.

Yes, but in this instance I think you have to take them more serious. Like I pointed out, these flight attendants spent a good deal of time with Cooper and saw him up close, it wasn't one of those deals where someone just caught a glimpse of a fleeing suspect at night or saw them only for a minute from a distance.

Personally, I think he was probably Canadian from an obscure place in British Columbia or another Canadian province and just traveled to the northwestern part of the US from time to time. I say this because he took the name Dan Cooper who was a character in a comic strip that was popular in Canada but not well known in the US. Also the fact that he asked for negotiable American currency is something that an American citizen would be unlikely to ask. Furthermore according to the flight attendants he had no distinguishable accent and many Canadians do not. And if he survived and spent the money, if it was all done overseas it would explain why none of it has resurfaced. The negotiable American currency phrase leads me to believe Cooper intended to exchange it in another country.

I just figure.. There's plenty to differentiate them without the statements of the stews. I know one of the stews from Cooper's flight.. We,, I don't KNOW, but iv'e heard rumblings that she had some health, perhaps mental health, issues afterwards. I'm not fully up to speed on that. So.. I'm just making the effort to not rely on that. No problems with what you want to think about it.

Confirmation bias is a very real thing and we're all guilty of it from time to time. Just trying to eliminate that from my thinking.

I agree with your theory on who Cooper was. I'll go a step further to say that I think he was quite possibly Canadian military. "Dan Cooper" from the comics was, as I understand, a French Canadian thing.. Which would point to the Quebec region, probably/possibly.. Canadian military was working with Titanium at the time, as I understand. So.. I think i'd look for Canadian military members who went missing around November of 1971, with emphasis on those in Quebec and eastern Ontario, followed by BC and Ontario.

McCoy was a bumbling mess, had big dopey ears, and a lisp. He wasn't Cooper.

I just figure.. There's plenty to differentiate them without the statements of the stews. I know one of the stews from Cooper's flight.. We,, I don't KNOW, but iv'e heard rumblings that she had some health, perhaps mental health, issues afterwards. I'm not fully up to speed on that. So.. I'm just making the effort to not rely on that. No problems with what you want to think about it.

Confirmation bias is a very real thing and we're all guilty of it from time to time. Just trying to eliminate that from my thinking.


I like that theory myself. I have zero faith, or confidence if that fits better, that this will ever be solved. Not after this long.
It took one of the stewardesses, Tina Mucklow, many decades to talk about the case publicly. Florence Schaffner mentioned her in passing in the UM segment, and only by first name. Tina was the one interviewed in a Cooper documentary a few years back (sorry, can't remember the name or channel offhand), and Florence Schaffner was mentioned by name and shown in photographs but not interviewed directly.

Because that's my question IMMEDIATELY.. Where's the money?


Well we know ~$5,800 ended up on the riverbank of the Columbia. Evidence as to if it was planted there or washed up there was inconsistent.

However, one scenario would involve him leaving a small amount or throwing it into the river to give the impression that he lost control of the money and was presumably killed in the jump.

Meanwhile he was alive and well with the bulk of it which he took with him. It seems reasonable to presume that anyone who thought through this operation as much as he did up to that point may have been cautious enough to not spend the money for a period of time to avoid being caught. Its possible that he realized, given the release of the serial numbers to the public in early 1972, that all of the money was traceable and simply destroyed it to avoid capture.

The corollary to asking where the money is would be asking where the body or chute are. Neither ever turned up either.

Who knows he may be still alive!!

I like that theory myself. I have zero faith, or confidence if that fits better, that this will ever be solved. Not after this long.
It took one of the stewardesses, Tina Mucklow, many decades to talk about the case publicly. Florence Schaffner mentioned her in passing in the UM segment, and only by first name. Tina was the one interviewed in a Cooper documentary a few years back (sorry, can't remember the name or channel offhand), and Florence Schaffner was mentioned by name and shown in photographs but not interviewed directly.

Mucklow.. That's the one, IIRC, that really had the health issues. Again.. don't take that as fact.. But.. I seem to remember hearing that. Not due to the hijacking or anything..

Well we know ~$5,800 ended up on the riverbank of the Columbia. Evidence as to if it was planted there or washed up there was inconsistent.

However, one scenario would involve him leaving a small amount or throwing it into the river to give the impression that he lost control of the money and was presumably killed in the jump.

Meanwhile he was alive and well with the bulk of it which he took with him. It seems reasonable to presume that anyone who thought through this operation as much as he did up to that point may have been cautious enough to not spend the money for a period of time to avoid being caught. Its possible that he realized, given the release of the serial numbers to the public in early 1972, that all of the money was traceable and simply destroyed it to avoid capture.

The corollary to asking where the money is would be asking where the body or chute are. Neither ever turned up either.

There could be a very good reason that a body or chute wouldn't be found now.. The assumed area where he jumped was covered in a pyroclastic flow about 7 years later when Mount St Helens blew.

If the chute didn't open.. Finding him would have been next to impossible.

Who knows he may be still alive!!

He was closing in on 40 back in '72 which was 52 years ago now.. drank whiskey like a fish and smoked like a chimney.

I think we can safely assume he's dead now.

There could be a very good reason that a body or chute wouldn't be found now.. The assumed area where he jumped was covered in a pyroclastic flow about 7 years later when Mount St Helens blew.


That is hardly a good reason. A small package of money and the placard from the air stair were both found, each of which is a fraction of the size of a full grown man.

That is hardly a good reason. A small package of money and the placard from the air stair were both found, each of which is a fraction of the size of a full grown man.

A 175 lb full grown man has a MUCH higher terminal velocity than a 6 ounce piece of paper.

Drop both at the same time. From 10k feet, that piece of paper could land many miles away from where a 175lb man, with.. What was it? Something like 75 pounds of cash strapped to him would land. He's pretty much going straight down. The paper will waft in the air.

Further.. once that paper DID land wherever it landed.. It's going to blow even more with the wind.

You also have to take into account, he jumped from a plane moving ~200mph. He, the packets of money, and the placard are all going to decelerate at different rates. again, we go back to Newton's first law. a body in motion remains in motion until/unless acted on by an external force. That external force is air resistance. A body will have more air resistance, and therefore slow its HORIZONTAL movement So, the money and the placard would land further in the direction the plane is moving than the body would.

David Scott's experiment on the moon, where he dropped a hammer and feather and they both hit the surface at the same time.. That only works in zero/microgravity. That don't happen on our real world.

as for the money.. We don't know where in the process it dropped, either, so.. The ASSUMPTION there is that maybe that $5800 (I believe) might have come out at the start. So.. Could be a big difference between where it landed, and where he landed. Plus, the fact of where the money was found, it could have moved with water. Though.. I kinda doubt that because.. What are the odds that all of it landed at the same spot? Of course, being fair.. Drop it from 10k feet and what are the odds that all of it lands in the same spot? Just.. Chaos theory says that won't happen.

Technically here.. and this is why I didn't go forward in studying physics.. The forward motion is a ratio of the air resistance and the inertia of the item.

While the 6 ounce piece of paper has a much smaller surface area for air resistance, it also has a much lower weight to it. so, the paper, in theory, should slow down its horizontal speed much faster than a body. Due to the surface area to weight ratio.

The placard and the money were found before Mt. Saint Helens blew.

Here's where I have problems with McCoy as DB Cooper.

Now, first off.. I preface this by saying.. I think Cooper went splat that night.. But.. Like Earhart.. I can 'play along' with the other theories, even though I think the most probable there is that she crashed and sank. After all.. I *COULD* be wrong in thinking he went splat or that Earhart crashed and sank.

But.. Let's look at McCoy's known jump and compare and contrast with Cooper's.. because it's really kinda night and day. One of them was.. To a large extent.. Picture perfect. The other was almost a comedy of errors.

So, the first thing is what happened BEFORE the jump. McCoy couldn't keep his mouth shut. In fact, bragging to friends that he could do what Cooper did is one thing that got him caught.

Another thing that got him caught was hitchhiking away after the jump, while wearing a jumpsuit. Since we don't know what happened to Cooper, we can't really compare here, but.. That was kinda dumb. I mean, pack what you wore on the plane into the duffel so you can change once on the ground..

They matched his handwriting to the note. Which he left behind. IIRC, the ONLY thing that Cooper left behind was that tie with the clip. Couple that with the above, if Cooper wore a jumpsuit, which is possible.. He took his 'normal' clothes with him.

Cooper had a (presumably) fake bomb in a briefcase.. McCoy had a hand grenade and a gun in his pocket. Yeah, that one is a product of the times when you think about it, huh?

McCoy's known jump, he did over Utah.. Where he lived. The old saying.. You don't crap where you eat.

And.. Back to my old standby.. Where's the money? When the FBI got McCoy, he had all but $30 of the ransom at his house.. Where was the $250k from the Cooper hijacking?


There's more.. But the way the hijackings were done.. I just can't see the same person doing them, because each was so different. Cooper's was perfection. McCoy's was amateur hour in comparison. How could the same person go from clockwork precision to three stooges?

I have to believe, due to that, McCoy was the Sam's Club Cola of hijackings.. While Cooper was Coca-Cola.. The real thing.

If you put them side by side, and from a.. "professionalism" standpoint, they matched up better.. I'd be much more likely to believe that McCoy and Cooper were the same person. I'd even be more apt to believe it if the FIRST hijacking was the comedy of errors and the second one was much better.. Basically that he learned from his mistakes.

these are some good points. McCoy is a good suspect and there are FBI agents, at least one that I've seen, that think McCoy was indeed Cooper. I understand why someone would "jump" to that conclusion. The problem that I have with them being one and the same is exactly what you pointed out. The two jumps were very different, yet I don't really know that one was better than the other at the end of the day. they were both dumb.

One of the jumps was over terrain that was impossible for S&R. it would also be nearly impossible to survive and get out of there without significant experience combined with a lot of luck. Cooper seemed to favor not being found over survival. McCoy's jump seems to indicate that of a person that wanted to ensure survival to the point that I think he was ok with being captured to prove a point. It is interesting that McCoy's story didn't end after the jump. he escaped from jail and had a standoff with the FBI that led to his death. There is an FBI files episode about McCoy IIRC. I assume most have seen that episode, but if you have not and you are a fan of the Cooper segment, you should tune in to the FBI files episode featuring McCoy's story.

these are some good points. McCoy is a good suspect and there are FBI agents, at least one that I've seen, that think McCoy was indeed Cooper. I understand why someone would "jump" to that conclusion. The problem that I have with them being one and the same is exactly what you pointed out. The two jumps were very different, yet I don't really know that one was better than the other at the end of the day. they were both dumb.

One of the jumps was over terrain that was impossible for S&R. it would also be nearly impossible to survive and get out of there without significant experience combined with a lot of luck. Cooper seemed to favor not being found over survival. McCoy's jump seems to indicate that of a person that wanted to ensure survival to the point that I think he was ok with being captured to prove a point. It is interesting that McCoy's story didn't end after the jump. he escaped from jail and had a standoff with the FBI that led to his death. There is an FBI files episode about McCoy IIRC. I assume most have seen that episode, but if you have not and you are a fan of the Cooper segment, you should tune in to the FBI files episode featuring McCoy's story.

Well, here's how I'd say one was much better. Here it is, some 52 years later, and we're still trying to figure out for certain who did one of them, while the other one was wrapped up in about 3 days.

It's just, to me, the covering of all the bases in the Cooper jump. Guy didn't leave prints, didn't get noticed at all.. As I recall, McCoy was flagged almost as soon as he sat on the plane as suspicious by some of the passengers, though.. That certainly could be a bit of 'revisionist history'

And probably the biggest part is that McCoy couldn't keep his mouth shut. Bragging to his friend that he could do what Cooper did. I think, if he were Cooper.. He wouldn't have been able to keep his mouth shut about that, either.

McCoy's wife was rather complicit in the hijacking as well. as I recall, she knew he was going to do it and even took him to the airport. She maintained that he was NOT Cooper when it would have been 100% to her benefit to be fully cooperative and say that he was, if he was. Or later on, to write a book about it. Would have been a best seller and she'd have been set for life. That didn't happen.


The History Channel or one of them, did a special claiming that Robert Rackstraw was DB Cooper and that was one of the funniest things that I have ever seen. It literally was them harassing this poor guy.. And they were literally doing things that were.. Just made up crap.

The sad part here.. The key evidence that Cooper left behind that COULD definitively ID him was destroyed. The cigarette butts he left behind on the plane. The DNA from the tie and/or the hairs found in his seat.. They MIGHT be his, but, they might not.. The cigarette butts would have had DNA that would have been his, a profile could have been developed.. But. Much like the skeleton found on Nikomauraro that is now claimed that it could have been Earhart.. Those butts have been lost to time.

Well, here's how I'd say one was much better. Here it is, some 52 years later, and we're still trying to figure out for certain who did one of them, while the other one was wrapped up in about 3 days.

It's just, to me, the covering of all the bases in the Cooper jump. Guy didn't leave prints, didn't get noticed at all.. As I recall, McCoy was flagged almost as soon as he sat on the plane as suspicious by some of the passengers, though.. That certainly could be a bit of 'revisionist history'

And probably the biggest part is that McCoy couldn't keep his mouth shut. Bragging to his friend that he could do what Cooper did. I think, if he were Cooper.. He wouldn't have been able to keep his mouth shut about that, either.

McCoy's wife was rather complicit in the hijacking as well. as I recall, she knew he was going to do it and even took him to the airport. She maintained that he was NOT Cooper when it would have been 100% to her benefit to be fully cooperative and say that he was, if he was. Or later on, to write a book about it. Would have been a best seller and she'd have been set for life. That didn't happen.


The History Channel or one of them, did a special claiming that Robert Rackstraw was DB Cooper and that was one of the funniest things that I have ever seen. It literally was them harassing this poor guy.. And they were literally doing things that were.. Just made up crap.

The sad part here.. The key evidence that Cooper left behind that COULD definitively ID him was destroyed. The cigarette butts he left behind on the plane. The DNA from the tie and/or the hairs found in his seat.. They MIGHT be his, but, they might not.. The cigarette butts would have had DNA that would have been his, a profile could have been developed.. But. Much like the skeleton found on Nikomauraro that is now claimed that it could have been Earhart.. Those butts have been lost to time.

if we are going on the notion that Cooper has never been ID'd then yes. I assume that he planned for it to be that way. It still seems like a death wish to me. anyone with knowledge of the geography where he jumped would know that it is nearly impossible to conduct a S&R operation there as well as survive in that location. All of those aspects enhance his chances of not being ID'd/located, but not necessarily his survival. I think you hit the nail on the head with the physical evidence. times were very different then. just the mere fact that one could light up a cigarette on the plane is all you need to know. this could have been a great forensic files episode had they preserved all the evidence.