http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/14/sports/football/15philly.html

Vick Divides a Shocked Philadelphia Fan Base

Published: August 14, 2009

Philadelphia — Fans in this sports-obsessed city were divided over the Eagles’ signing of Michael Vick, but they were united in at least one emotion: shock.

“The whole city was full of people running outside to communicate with other people,” said Tim Quigley, 26, who was at a bar in Philadelphia for a bachelor party when he heard the news via text message.

“I was just stunned, floored,” said Ray Didinger, who started covering the Eagles in 1970 and is now a commentator on Comcast’s postgame show, describing his first reaction to the signing. He was in the press box at Lincoln Financial Field when the news broke during the second quarter of Thursday night’s Eagles-Patriots preseason game, and like many reporters was caught off-guard.

“Whatever contact the team had, whatever time he spent here, whatever conversations he had with coaches, they did an amazing job of keeping that secret,” Didinger said.

Whether or not the suddenness of the announcement had anything to do with Philadelphians’ reaction, Vick’s signing had a polarizing effect.

By Friday morning, Web sites had sprung up, one hawking T-shirts showing that “the football community in Philadelphia welcomes Michael Vick with open arms,” as advertised on the “Vick Love” site, and another encouraging fans to “Sack Michael Vick” and boycott the Eagles and the N.F.L.

Phone lines at local sports talk radio stations were jammed with fans who wanted to talk about Vick’s conviction and 19 months of incarceration for organizing a dogfighting ring.

“It’s so emotional because people have such strong feelings toward their pets,” said John Maxymuk, author of three books about the Eagles. He noted that the reaction from callers on talk radio was “very strongly negative.”

Regan Tilton Tighe, 28, was on vacation in Sea Isle City at the Jersey Shore when she heard the news via text message.

“I cried,” said Tilton Tighe, who said she was a lifelong Eagles fan. “Now I have to hate the Eagles. Now I don’t have a team to root for anymore. There’s no possible way I could ever root for them again. It makes me sick.”

Tilton Tighe owns a four-year-old boxer, volunteers for New Jersey Boxer Rescue and bought her dog an “I Hate Michael Vick” T-shirt when he was first charged with dog abuse. She had accompanied her husband, a season-ticket holder, to Eagles home games. He won’t be selling his tickets, she said, but she won’t be going with him anymore.

Kevin Caviston, 33, of Barrington, N.J., another Eagles lifer, has offered via his Facebook page to buy out any season-ticket holders who say they’re giving up on the team because of the Vick signing.

“I’m not condoning what he did,” Caviston said. “It’s a horrible thing, but he served time in federal prison. He lost out on the benefit of having a multimillion dollar contract with the Falcons. He’s in bankruptcy.”

Caviston said he supported giving Vick a “second chance” and disagreed with those who said they would abandon the Eagles. “It’s one player on a football team, so it doesn’t make any sense to stop cheering or rooting for a team because of one guy,” he said.

Animal rights activists scrambled to react to the signing.

Susan Cosby, chief executive of the Pennsylvania Society for the Prevention of Cruelty of Animals, said that her organization has worked closely with the Eagles in the past, but that its executives were as shocked as anyone about the advent of Vick.

“I know that some of our supporters think that we tacitly supported this, but the reality is this took us completely by surprise,” Cosby said, noting that dog fighting is a major problem in Pennsylvania and that hers is one of the few animal welfare groups with officers dedicated to stopping dogfighting.

“Our objective remains the same, which is preventing cruelty to animals,” she added.

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals and the Philadelphia Animal Welfare Society also expressed disappointment over Vick’s signing.

But the Humane Society of the United States took a different approach. In May, the organization agreed to work with Vick in urban communities to combat dog fighting, most recently accompanying Vick to the South Side of Chicago where he spoke at a church about his involvement in the practice.

“We didn’t endorse his return to the N.F.L. or vouch for his character with any team,” said Wayne Pacelle, president of the Humane Society. “We said we’ll give him a chance to fulfill his pledge to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem,” he added.

“He served his time and now he wants to pursue his livelihood, and he’s also agreed to do de facto community service by reaching out to at-risk kids,” Pacelle said. “It seems hardly inappropriate that he would be given either opportunity.”

Quigley, a dog owner and self-described “fanatical” Eagles fan, agreed. “The guy served his time and I’m O.K. with it,” he said. “My only concern is they have a pieced-together offensive line and a left-handed quarterback coming in. But I’m very much O.K. with it

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/andrew_perloff/08/14/vick/

Andrew Perloff > INSIDE THE NFL

Eagles fans torn by Vick signing



PHILADELPHIA -- Marisa Scully's family has had Eagles season tickets since they played at Franklin Field in the 1960s. She's gone to every home game since she moved back to Philadelphia from college six years ago. She also trains pit bulls for a living and owns two. Her lifelong devotion to the Eagles is no match for her disgust at the team signing Michael Vick.

"I truly love the Eagles. I cried last night when I heard the news," Scully said. "The only reason I would ever go to a game again is to hold up a sign against Vick and the team. I can never root for this team again."

Scully was one of about 50 protestors outside the Novacare Center in Philadelphia during Vick's introductory press conference. They were holding posters with photos of mangles pit bulls and slogans that included "Shame on the Eagles" and "Hide your Beagle, here comes an Eagle." While Vick, head coach Andy Reid and Vick mentor Tony Dungy explained why the new Eagle is a different person, animal activists weren't buying it.

"Once you understand what dogfighters of capable of, you could never root for them," Scully said. "Dogfighters know they're torturing those animals. You think just because Michael Vick went to a PETA class he learned anything in prison? Anyone who can do that to an animal can't be capable of real remorse."

Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie is also a dog lover and is fully aware of the risk he's taking. He expects and demands that Vick be active in the community and do anything he can to help animal rights activists.

"This is not a slam dunk," Lurie said. "He's going to have to be absolutely committed to being proactive. If we don't have an extremely proactive player off the field, then this is a terrible decision. It's counterintuitive. It's going to be initially disappointing to some people."

The small amount of protestors on Friday may be encouraging for Eagles officials, but the Vick signing was announced late Thursday night and activists had little time to mobilize. Organizers will use any means they can to get the word out moving forward.

"We plan to use Twitter, Facebook ... any social media we can get a hold of to get people out to the stadium to let them know how people feel," said Patricia Palko of South Philadelphia.

Vick's first practice is on Saturday afternoon and many of the protestors who were there Friday plan to return -- and they're bringing friends.

"I'd be surprised if this thing didn't grow tremendously over the next several weeks," picketer Maryanne Aros said. "Hopefully it will only get worse for the Eagles. They have to understand how we feel. We really care about this team and this feels like a betrayal."

The Vick era is under way in Philly. The community will be watching to see if Vick fulfills the commitment Lurie, Reid and Dungy expect from him, to act socially responsible and try to make up for some of the damage he caused. But for many dog lovers, that just won't matter. Even if they bleed green, they'll never be able to follow a team that signed Vick.

“I’m not condoning what he did,” Caviston said. “It’s a horrible thing, but he served time in federal prison. He lost out on the benefit of having a multimillion dollar contract with the Falcons. He’s in bankruptcy.”

Caviston said he supported giving Vick a “second chance” and disagreed with those who said they would abandon the Eagles. “It’s one player on a football team, so it doesn’t make any sense to stop cheering or rooting for a team because of one guy,” he said.


I agree with this guy. I do think it is dumb to stop cheering for a team just because of one person.

Can't say I'm surprised here. A second chance is one thing, but when ordinary citizens wouldn't get that chance, it makes it all the more sickening.

I agree with this guy. I do think it is dumb to stop cheering for a team just because of one person.
Yea and I will say that if Vick did sign with the Cowboys I wouldn't have stopped rooting for them. However, everytime Vick got on the field I would boo him and would not wish him well. If that would make me a bad fan then so be it.

For the record, the Eagles and Falcons play on 12/6.

For the record, the Eagles and Falcons play on 12/6.
Where do they play?

Where do they play?


Atlanta

Can't say I'm surprised here. A second chance is one thing, but when ordinary citizens wouldn't get that chance, it makes it all the more sickening.
:yeahthat I totally agree!

Atlanta
That should be very interesting. I bet it get's a national game. :lol:

That should be very interesting. I bet it get's a national game. :lol:
Now THAT will be something fun to watch. :eek: :lol:

Scully was one of about 50 protestors outside the Novacare Center in Philadelphia during Vick's introductory press conference. They were holding posters with photos of mangles pit bulls

Pit bulls have been known to maim, hurt, and even kill people. I'm amazed that a lot of these people seem to treat them as good, gentle creatures.

Pit bulls have been known to maim, hurt, and even kill people. I'm amazed that a lot of these people seem to treat them as good, gentle creatures.


The breed itself is not the problem. It's the owners that are the problem. Most pit bulls are good dogs. Thing is we only hear about the ones that maim, hurt, and kill.

The breed itself is not the problem. It's the owners that are the problem. Most pit bulls are good dogs. Thing is we only hear about the ones that maim, hurt, and kill.

A few of my friends own pitbulls and Rotweilers and they are good trained dogs and very friendly.

Yeah it's been kind of half and half far as the reaction from the fans. The Headline in front of the Philly Dailly News was

"HIDE YOUR DOGS"

LOLLOL

Yeah it's been kind of half and half far as the reaction from the fans. The Headline in front of the Philly Dailly News was

"HIDE YOUR DOGS"

LOLLOL
I love that headline. :rofl:

I have a feeling the Eagles are going to be dogged by this kind of press coverage all season long!

I have a feeling the Eagles are going to be dogged by this kind of press coverage all season long!
GROAN...*rim shot* :rolleyes: :lol:

On one of the sports radio shows today they had "Who Let the Dogs Out? " as their theme song. :lol:

On one of the sports radio shows today they had "Who Let the Dogs Out? " as their theme song. :lol:
I don't think they'll be playing that during any of the Eagles' home games this year. :lol:

I don't think they'll be playing that during any of the Eagles' home games this year. :lol:
No, but they'll probably hear it at many of the stadiums where they are the visiting team!

No, but they'll probably hear it at many of the stadiums where they are the visiting team!
I wish they were playing Cleveland this year. :lol:

I wish they were playing Cleveland this year. :lol:
Oh man! Can you imagine what the dogpound would do to Michael Vick! Never mind the dogpound, can you imagine what Monika would do to Michael Vick if he ever showed up in Cleveland!!!!

Oh God, I was afraid this would happen. :mad: I really feel for the people of Philadelphia right now. I would be LIVID if the Seahawks had signed him, so I can imagine what they are going through. The woman that said she is no longer an Eagles fan must be a die hard fan. People here hate A-Rod (of the Yankees), because he left the Mariners for that atrocious salary in Texas, and he ALWAYS gets booed when he comes to town. However, if the Mariners were to hire him back, I'd still cheer for them. I know that is completely unrelated, since he didn't do anything as horrible as what Michael Vick did. However, I don't know that I'd really disown the team. If the press and publicity is bad enough, who knows? They may end up releasing him. I mean, the NFL relies on these corporate sponsors and you know that they wouldn't want to risk millions of dollars from a sponsor over someone like Michael Vick.

What still gets me, though is that Pete Rose was banned from baseball for LIFE for what? Tax-evasion? And Micheal Vick murdered animals and he is reinstated? I don't remember the exact story, but I found an article about it here...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2004-01-05-rose-timeline_x.htm

Pit bulls have been known to maim, hurt, and even kill people. I'm amazed that a lot of these people seem to treat them as good, gentle creatures.
The breed itself is not the problem. It's the owners that are the problem. Most pit bulls are good dogs. Thing is we only hear about the ones that maim, hurt, and kill.

Excellent point, Darren! There is a show that comes on cable on Sunday mornings with host Mariette Hartley called "Amazing Animals" or something like that. Just a couple of weekends ago I was watching and they had a segment on Pit Bulls and other dogs that are considered aggressive. They had a dog trainer who deals exclusively with these kinds of dogs and he trains them to respect their owners and people as well. I don't think it's fair to blame the breed. It would be like saying that all of such and such kind of people are bad because someone like them (same race, whatever) committed a horrible crime.

A story about this very thing; I went to check my mail at my apartment complex and there was a guy standing there talking to the mailman. He had a bulldog on a leash next to him. As soon as I saw that bulldog, I instinctively started moving back, afraid he would try to bite. The guy saw me and told me I could pet his dog. My hand shook, but I reached over and petted him, realizing that he was really friendly. They look mean, that's for sure, but this one was a sweetheart! I thought it would be a good idea to buy one and put it in the front yard. Then when people come over and want to bother us, maybe they would be scared of him because of his appearance! Never got around to doing that, but it sounds good anyway.

Andrea

Oh man! Can you imagine what the dogpound would do to Michael Vick! Never mind the dogpound, can you imagine what Monika would do to Michael Vick if he ever showed up in Cleveland!!!!
That would be CLASSIC. :lol:

Oh God, I was afraid this would happen. :mad: I really feel for the people of Philadelphia right now. I would be LIVID if the Seahawks had signed him, so I can imagine what they are going through. The woman that said she is no longer an Eagles fan must be a die hard fan. People here hate A-Rod (of the Yankees), because he left the Mariners for that atrocious salary in Texas, and he ALWAYS gets booed when he comes to town. However, if the Mariners were to hire him back, I'd still cheer for them. I know that is completely unrelated, since he didn't do anything as horrible as what Michael Vick did. However, I don't know that I'd really disown the team. If the press and publicity is bad enough, who knows? They may end up releasing him. I mean, the NFL relies on these corporate sponsors and you know that they wouldn't want to risk millions of dollars from a sponsor over someone like Michael Vick.

What still gets me, though is that Pete Rose was banned from baseball for LIFE for what? Tax-evasion? And Micheal Vick murdered animals and he is reinstated? I don't remember the exact story, but I found an article about it here...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2004-01-05-rose-timeline_x.htm




Excellent point, Darren! There is a show that comes on cable on Sunday mornings with host Mariette Hartley called "Amazing Animals" or something like that. Just a couple of weekends ago I was watching and they had a segment on Pit Bulls and other dogs that are considered aggressive. They had a dog trainer who deals exclusively with these kinds of dogs and he trains them to respect their owners and people as well. I don't think it's fair to blame the breed. It would be like saying that all of such and such kind of people are bad because someone like them (same race, whatever) committed a horrible crime.

A story about this very thing; I went to check my mail at my apartment complex and there was a guy standing there talking to the mailman. He had a bulldog on a leash next to him. As soon as I saw that bulldog, I instinctively started moving back, afraid he would try to bite. The guy saw me and told me I could pet his dog. My hand shook, but I reached over and petted him, realizing that he was really friendly. They look mean, that's for sure, but this one was a sweetheart! I thought it would be a good idea to buy one and put it in the front yard. Then when people come over and want to bother us, maybe they would be scared of him because of his appearance! Never got around to doing that, but it sounds good anyway.

Andrea
Pete Rose was banned for betting on baseball. I don't know the whole story, but that's pretty much the short version.

Pete Rose was banned for betting on baseball. I don't know the whole story, but that's pretty much the short version.
Yea that's why he was banned. It's against baseball rules. I think he should be reinstated or at least be able to go into the HOF. He never fixed any games. With all the news today about steroids and such, these players are still permitted to play and what they are doing is really cheating. Baseball has always been scared of gambling ever since the Black Sox WS fix of 1919.

Well it was TONY DUNGY who played a huge role in this and was in communication with different teams.

So people should be mad at DUNGY not Vick because it was him who was Vick's Advocate/Mentor and probably called the Eagles and since Dungy is highly respected that's how Vick got his chance.

Well it was TONY DUNGY who played a huge role in this and was in communication with different teams.

So people should be mad at DUNGY not Vick because it was him who was Vick's Advocate/Mentor and probably called the Eagles and since Dungy is highly respected that's how Vick got his chance.
Wow, I didn't know all that.

Well it was TONY DUNGY who played a huge role in this and was in communication with different teams.

So people should be mad at DUNGY not Vick because it was him who was Vick's Advocate/Mentor and probably called the Eagles and since Dungy is highly respected that's how Vick got his chance.
Yea he's all over the TV. He's acting like Vick's agent. I noticed the Colts didn't want him though. lol

While I agree that what Vick did was horrible, I have this to say.

Other players have been involved in incidents that involved humans dying (Donte Stallworth, Leonard Little) or paralyzed (Pacman Jones), and I don't remember much outrage over their actions.

It's amazing- some people barely blink an eye when a human gets killed, yet when dogs get killed, everyone wants to send them to the electric chair.

Dogs can be replaced- humans CAN'T.

The breed itself is not the problem. It's the owners that are the problem. Most pit bulls are good dogs. Thing is we only hear about the ones that maim, hurt, and kill.

The breed is the problem, How many times have we heard about someone being attacked by one or more dogs and more often than not it's a pitbull. The dog's behavior cannot always be contributed to the owner. Pitbulls are aggressive dogs and it's in their nature to attack and it doesn't matter if they're provoked or not and when the owner is confronted, They almost always say something like, "I don't understand, The dog never hurt anyone before."

I despise pitbulls and other aggressive dogs, We had a new family move in just down the street from us that owned a pitbull and allowed it run loose in the neighborhood. The first day it did it killed another neighbor's dog. The owner was told by myself and several others that if it was allowed to continue running loose it would be shot once it stepped on anyone's yard and the cops said we were within our rights to do so. The owner agreed to fence the dog in which he did but a few days after that it got loose and was shot and killed by a neighbor when it chased after his granddaughter.

While I agree that what Vick did was horrible, I have this to say.

Other players have been involved in incidents that involved humans dying (Donte Stallworth, Leonard Little) or paralyzed (Pacman Jones), and I don't remember much outrage over their actions.

It's amazing- some people barely blink an eye when a human gets killed, yet when dogs get killed, everyone wants to send them to the electric chair.

Dogs can be replaced- humans CAN'T.
The big problem is intent. Stallworth didn't intend to kill anybody. The end result was worse of course because I do believe a human is worth more than an animal. From what I read the man was jaywalking at the time too. That's no excuse because Stallworth should have gotten more than 30 days in jail. He was suspended for the whole year by the NFL though. I can't defend Pacman because he is scum and should have been banned for life. He's nothing but a thug. Vick did what he did on purpose. He didn't just set up the dog fights, he drowned and electricuted dogs that weren't strong enough to engage in the fights. He tortured them. That's how serial killers start. I am so sick of hearing about his mistake because it was not a mistake. He knew what he was doing.

I read this on another message board last month, and it has stayed in my mind. Read on.
------------------------------------------------

Vick should be able to play with any team THAT WILL HAVE HIM. However, what Vick did was different than Stallworth. Stallworth accidentally hit and killed a man. Once.

What Vick did was not accidental. What Vick did was not a one-time occurrence.

And what Vick did was not just fight dogs, contrary to what we keep reading about his "dog-fighting" conviction or conviction "related to "dog-fighting".

Vick's problems may be that he's available for any team now, but Vick is a psychopath and teams don't want a pscyhopath. He didn't just fight dogs.

He tortued dogs. Personally. Repeatedly. He held them under water as the struggled and drowned.

He picked them up and repeatedly slammed them to the ground until they died.

He hooked wires to them and electrocuted them.

He tossed non-Pit Bulls (from the neighborhood or wherever) into fighting pits with trained Pit Bulls to watch the smaller dogs be torn to pieces. He tossed his own family dog into a fighting pit.

I could keep going.

There was testimony that Vick did this stuff himself, as well as being there as others did it. Repeatedly.

Torture of animals, repeated torture of animals, is the sign of a psychopath, and goes well beyond dog-fighting and humanely putting down an injured dog after a fight.

Doing that kind of stuff when you're a kid is disturbing, but doing it as an adult . . . well it makes you step back and say "he's served his time, but can you ever rehabilitate someone who is simply a pscyhopathic serial torturer of small animals for fun? Do you want him on your team?"

I think he has every right to employment anywhere he can get it, and some team's likely to employ him. But because of the repeated torturing of both his dogs and those dogs he offered up for his dogs to kill -- and I can just imagine Vick and a bunch of his home boys laughing about it, because you don't come up with a menu of different ways to kill the dogs unless you're doing it for jollies when a gunshot would suffice -- I lump Vick in with other people who are so twisted psychologically that I, for one, wouldn't want to hire them no matter how talented they were/are.

He served his time and is entitled to look for work. But let's not just call him a "dog-fighter" and carry on. He was a psychologically serial torturer of dogs, personally, at his hands. I'll take a guy who accidentally hit and killed someone with a car (although I wish he, too, paid his debt to society) before I want to work side-by-side with somebody who for God knows how long got his kicks by personally torturing animals. Vick went WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY beyond dog fighting, and he did so with his own hands. Dog fighting may be part of his cultural upbringing. Torturing animals says that Vick shares at least part of that "unholy trinity" as serial killers and other seriously disturbed humans.

I'll keep guys who laughingly and repeatedly tortured animals off my team and wish them luck on gettting a job elsewhere. I think a number of General Managers feel the same way -- they would give him a pass on dog fighting and serving his time, but when they read the full description of what he did, they consider Vick more of an unpredictable animal than the Pit Bulls he trained for fighting.

The big problem is intent. Stallworth didn't intend to kill anybody. The end result was worse of course because I do believe a human is worth more than an animal. From what I read the man was jaywalking at the time too. That's no excuse because Stallworth should have gotten more than 30 days in jail. He was suspended for the whole year by the NFL though. I can't defend Pacman because he is scum and should have been banned for life. He's nothing but a thug. Vick did what he did on purpose. He didn't just set up the dog fights, he drowned and electricuted dogs that weren't strong enough to engage in the fights. He tortured them. That's how serial killers start. I am so sick of hearing about his mistake because it was not a mistake. He knew what he was doing.

:clap

The breed is the problem, How many times have we heard about someone being attacked by one or more dogs and more often than not it's a pitbull. The dog's behavior cannot always be contributed to the owner. Pitbulls are aggressive dogs and it's in their nature to attack and it doesn't matter if they're provoked or not and when the owner is confronted, They almost always say something like, "I don't understand, The dog never hurt anyone before."

I despise pitbulls and other aggressive dogs, We had a new family move in just down the street from us that owned a pitbull and allowed it run loose in the neighborhood. The first day it did it killed another neighbor's dog. The owner was told by myself and several others that if it was allowed to continue running loose it would be shot once it stepped on anyone's yard and the cops said we were withing our rights to do so. The owner agreed to fence the dog in which he did but a few days after that it got loose and was shot and killed by a neighbor when it chased after his granddaughter.


More often than not, the owner is to blame. If you raise the dog from day 1, it will not be violent. My cousin had a rottweiler for over 10 years. It was never a problem and was the sweetest dog. If you're going to neglect, beat, and otherwise abuse the dog, of course it's going to be hostile and violent.

I read this on another message board last month, and it has stayed in my mind. Read on.
------------------------------------------------

Vick should be able to play with any team THAT WILL HAVE HIM. However, what Vick did was different than Stallworth. Stallworth accidentally hit and killed a man. Once.

What Vick did was not accidental. What Vick did was not a one-time occurrence.

And what Vick did was not just fight dogs, contrary to what we keep reading about his "dog-fighting" conviction or conviction "related to "dog-fighting".

Vick's problems may be that he's available for any team now, but Vick is a psychopath and teams don't want a pscyhopath. He didn't just fight dogs.

He tortued dogs. Personally. Repeatedly. He held them under water as the struggled and drowned.

He picked them up and repeatedly slammed them to the ground until they died.

He hooked wires to them and electrocuted them.

He tossed non-Pit Bulls (from the neighborhood or wherever) into fighting pits with trained Pit Bulls to watch the smaller dogs be torn to pieces. He tossed his own family dog into a fighting pit.

I could keep going.

There was testimony that Vick did this stuff himself, as well as being there as others did it. Repeatedly.

Torture of animals, repeated torture of animals, is the sign of a psychopath, and goes well beyond dog-fighting and humanely putting down an injured dog after a fight.

Doing that kind of stuff when you're a kid is disturbing, but doing it as an adult . . . well it makes you step back and say "he's served his time, but can you ever rehabilitate someone who is simply a pscyhopathic serial torturer of small animals for fun? Do you want him on your team?"

I think he has every right to employment anywhere he can get it, and some team's likely to employ him. But because of the repeated torturing of both his dogs and those dogs he offered up for his dogs to kill -- and I can just imagine Vick and a bunch of his home boys laughing about it, because you don't come up with a menu of different ways to kill the dogs unless you're doing it for jollies when a gunshot would suffice -- I lump Vick in with other people who are so twisted psychologically that I, for one, wouldn't want to hire them no matter how talented they were/are.

He served his time and is entitled to look for work. But let's not just call him a "dog-fighter" and carry on. He was a psychologically serial torturer of dogs, personally, at his hands. I'll take a guy who accidentally hit and killed someone with a car (although I wish he, too, paid his debt to society) before I want to work side-by-side with somebody who for God knows how long got his kicks by personally torturing animals. Vick went WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY beyond dog fighting, and he did so with his own hands. Dog fighting may be part of his cultural upbringing. Torturing animals says that Vick shares at least part of that "unholy trinity" as serial killers and other seriously disturbed humans.

I'll keep guys who laughingly and repeatedly tortured animals off my team and wish them luck on gettting a job elsewhere. I think a number of General Managers feel the same way -- they would give him a pass on dog fighting and serving his time, but when they read the full description of what he did, they consider Vick more of an unpredictable animal than the Pit Bulls he trained for fighting.
Thanks for posting that Janice. I agree with it all.

Also I know that Tony Dungy has been helpful in getting Vick back into the league. Everyone has high respect for him as do I. He's a good guy and he says that he thinks that Vick has changed. The problem is that Vick is indeed a psychopath and they can lie right to your face and not feel remorse for it. They are born liars. How can you trust him? He lied to the Commissioner and the owner of the Falcons and the only reason he ever stopped was that he got caught.

Also, contrary to popular belief, the dogfighting was not all he did, nor was it his biggest setback. He lied to the feds and failed a drug test while waiting for trial.

If you raise the dog from day 1, it will not be violent.

That depends on the dog, A cocker spaniel, chihuahua or any other non-violent breed I'll agree with but nobody is going to convince me that the same is true for a pitbull.

More often than not, the owner is to blame. If you raise the dog from day 1, it will not be violent. My cousin had a rottweiler for over 10 years. It was never a problem and was the sweetest dog. If you're going to neglect, beat, and otherwise abuse the dog, of course it's going to be hostile and violent.

Like I mentioned before I have known people that have good Rottweilers and pitbulls. I agree with you those kinds of dogs need to be raised from day 1 to be good dogs. There are people that train their dogs to be mean for any little reason.

:clap
AMEN!! Plus don't forget that Stallworth WAS drinking while he was behind the wheel when he hit that man. Regular people would get locked up in a heartbeat for that.

Also, contrary to popular belief, the dogfighting was not all he did, nor was it his biggest setback. He lied to the feds and failed a drug test while waiting for trial.
Didn't he also get busted for having drugs on him at an airport back in '06 or '07?

I've lost all respect for the Eagles orginization.:grrbald:

Didn't he also get busted for having drugs on him at an airport back in '06 or '07?


Might have. I know his brother has been in trouble as well. It might have been Marcus that got busted at that time.

Might have. I know his brother has been in trouble as well. It might have been Marcus that got busted at that time.
Yes, I was right:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/falcons/2007-01-18-vick-water-bottle_x.htm

Didn't he also get busted for having drugs on him at an airport back in '06 or '07?
They inspected his water bottle because it had a secret compartment in it. I don't think they found anything in it but I think we all know what it was used for.

Thanks for posting that Janice. I agree with it all.

Also I know that Tony Dungy has been helpful in getting Vick back into the league. Everyone has high respect for him as do I. He's a good guy and he says that he thinks that Vick has changed. The problem is that Vick is indeed a psychopath and they can lie right to your face and not feel remorse for it. They are born liars. How can you trust him? He lied to the Commissioner and the owner of the Falcons and the only reason he ever stopped was that he got caught.
That's right. He'd still be at it if he didn't get caught. He had a dog death factory set up on his property. A House of Horrors. Vick didn't even show mercy to the mangled and dying dogs after the brutal fights. Instead of killing them quickly, he continued the torture and beatings.
Money wasn't even the incentive for what this sick piece of **** did to these poor defenseless dogs. He did it for the thrill. He enjoyed watching the bloody carnage and hearing the tortured screams of these animals while they were being murdered. When he was busted, I remember they had to put down dozens of dogs who were so traumatized that they could never be rehabilitated enough to be around humans or other dogs. God only knows just how many dogs died because of this vicious sociopath. Anyone who is capable of this kind of evil is beyond redemption, in my opinion.
To me, this has nothing to do with football, Tony Dungy, etc. I do believe Sick Vick should be allowed to play football. In our society, we can't have people leaving prison and unable to earn a living. It's his profession. That doesn't mean people have to forget what he did. Everyone is allowed to their opinion. I'm glad he's not on my team. I wouldn't be able to look at his face. Some crimes are so horrific, so unspeakable, that I can't get past them, and this is one of them. I'm not alone. There are millions of dog lovers, and I think they'll make their voices heard.
If Michael Vick was a cab driver or a construction worker, we'd be hearing a different tune from many people. This monster plays good football, so let's forget it. He served his time. That doesn't erase what he did or who his is. You have to be a special type of person to do what he did, and not the good kind of special. He killed his own dog. I saw a picture of one of the dogs after a fight. I'll never get that image out of my mind. That guy is going to hell.

Some crimes are so horrific, so unspeakable, that I can't get past them

Pacman Jones, a man who was involved in a shooting that paralyzed a human being for the rest of his life, was reinstated last year, yet there was very little reaction as opposed to this.

What he did, to me, was far more horrific. A man is paralyzed for the rest of his life, yet there is no outcry to jail the Pacman.

There was no outcry when the Pacman got a second chance as opposed to Vick.

Pacman Jones, a man who was involved in a shooting that paralyzed a human being for the rest of his life, was reinstated last year, yet there was very little reaction as opposed to this.

What he did, to me, was far more horrific. A man is paralyzed for the rest of his life, yet there is no outcry to jail the Pacman.


In this country, dogs are ranked above humans. We euthanize animals, but humans get placed in hospitals with morphine dripping from a bag. People are willing to go great lengths to put an end to dogfighting, but violence and crime is more or less ignored. Neither one should be allowed to play in the NFL again, but the reason Vick is getting far more attention than Pacman is because dogs are considered more precious than human life.

Pacman Jones, a man who was involved in a shooting that paralyzed a human being for the rest of his life, was reinstated last year, yet there was very little reaction as opposed to this.

What he did, to me, was far more horrific. A man is paralyzed for the rest of his life, yet there is no outcry to jail the Pacman.

There was no outcry when the Pacman got a second chance as opposed to Vick.
What Pacman Jones did he did once and had one victim. What Michael Vick did he did many times and had a large number of victims. That's the difference. Michael Vick made a deliberate choice to do something appalling and chose to keep doing it over and over again and in fact only stopped because he got caught.

Pacman Jones, a man who was involved in a shooting that paralyzed a human being for the rest of his life, was reinstated last year, yet there was very little reaction as opposed to this.

What he did, to me, was far more horrific. A man is paralyzed for the rest of his life, yet there is no outcry to jail the Pacman.

There was no outcry when the Pacman got a second chance as opposed to Vick.
Was it Pacman who actually did the shooting or someone in his group? Pacman is scum. He should never have been reinstated back into the NFL. Jerry Jones was wrong to give him another chance. I think everyone wants to see the good in people and in some people, it just isn't there. I don't think one has to do with the other though. Michael Vick is a psychopath. We have seen the evidence of his deeds. Maybe if we would have seen the face of that injured man over and over again, more people would have been up in arms over Pacman. I agree with Janice though. If Vick wasn't a great football player people would have a different opinion.

Pacman Jones, a man who was involved in a shooting that paralyzed a human being for the rest of his life, was reinstated last year, yet there was very little reaction as opposed to this.

What he did, to me, was far more horrific. A man is paralyzed for the rest of his life, yet there is no outcry to jail the Pacman.
Pacman Jones didn't shoot anybody. In fact, he picked the gunman out of a lineup and is expected to testify against him in the upcoming trial. Jones pleaded no contest to a misdemeanor of disorderly conduct. I think what Vick did was far worse than disorderly conduct in a nightclub.

In this country, dogs are ranked above humans. We euthanize animals, but humans get placed in hospitals with morphine dripping from a bag. People are willing to go great lengths to put an end to dogfighting, but violence and crime is more or less ignored. Neither one should be allowed to play in the NFL again, but the reason Vick is getting far more attention than Pacman is because dogs are considered more precious than human life.
Where do I even start. Dogs are not ranked above humans. Do you want to euthanize human beings? Violence and crime are ignored? That's news to me. Do something wrong and see how far you get. What are all those police departments, FBI, CIA, DEA, etc doing? You have a problem with putting an end to dogfighting? How are you backing up your statement that dogs are considered more precious than human life? You just saying it makes it so or what? People are outraged over what Vick did. That doesn't mean they value dogs more than people.

Where do I even start. Dogs are not ranked above humans. Do you want to euthanize human beings? Violence and crime are ignored? That's news to me. Do something wrong and see how far you get. What are all those police departments, FBI, CIA, DEA, etc doing? You have a problem with putting an end to dogfighting? How are you backing up your statement that dogs are considered more precious than human life? You just saying it makes it so or what? People are outraged over what Vick did. That doesn't mean they value dogs more than people.
Yea I don't think dogs are ranked above humans. Just look at all the tv shows on the news channels that try to find all the missing children. I remember the outrage over what Susan Smith did to her kids too.Whenever some terrible crime happens they are all over it.....remember Cullenbine. People were outraged and sad over that. I realy don't remember them covering any dogs with the exception of Vick. And like you said, all those agencies that are in existence just to stop crime. I remember after 9/11 how this country all came together. That was the one good thing I remember about that time. America does care about people.

It's amazing- some people barely blink an eye when a human gets killed, yet when dogs get killed, everyone wants to send them to the electric chair.

Dogs can be replaced- humans CAN'T.

I disagree with this to an extent. I don't like to see humans killed or tortured any more than people, but in some cases, people can defend themselves. They can call for help or struggle to get free. Dogs and other animals can't do this. Most of the time, I think that there are sick individuals who kill animals just for fun and because they can get away with it. If someone kills a person and leaves their body somewhere, it will be found and an investigation follows. Sadly if an animal is found dead, a lot of people wouldn't give it a second thought.

Dogs can be replaced in a sense. I agree that humans can't because each of us are diffrent. But I'm sure that dog owners would say that their pets are irreplaceable. If a person loses their husband or wife, sure they can always get remarried, but it's not the same thing. People can get new pets too, but I lost a pet back in 1999, and it hurt just as much as if one of my loved ones had died.

Sorry for the rant, but just had to state my opinon.

Andrea

What Pacman Jones did he did once and had one victim. What Michael Vick did he did many times and had a large number of victims. That's the difference. Michael Vick made a deliberate choice to do something appalling and chose to keep doing it over and over again and in fact only stopped because he got caught.
:yeahthat

Where do I even start. Dogs are not ranked above humans. Do you want to euthanize human beings? Violence and crime are ignored? That's news to me. Do something wrong and see how far you get. What are all those police departments, FBI, CIA, DEA, etc doing? You have a problem with putting an end to dogfighting? How are you backing up your statement that dogs are considered more precious than human life? You just saying it makes it so or what? People are outraged over what Vick did. That doesn't mean they value dogs more than people.I couldn't agree more.

I agree with this guy. I do think it is dumb to stop cheering for a team just because of one person.

I agree. And I'll take MrIggles' tickets to the Linc, if he does this.

In this country, dogs are ranked above humans. We euthanize animals, but humans get placed in hospitals with morphine dripping from a bag. People are willing to go great lengths to put an end to dogfighting, but violence and crime is more or less ignored. Neither one should be allowed to play in the NFL again, but the reason Vick is getting far more attention than Pacman is because dogs are considered more precious than human life.

I kind of agree. Nobody can seem to stop the Bloods and Crips killing everybody, yet one specific case of dogfighting, or dogfighting in general (which I really hate cause I have a dog of my own, and absolutely do not condone it), people are willing to go to great lengths to bring to the public eye. It's one thing to stop what somebody bad is doing, which I love that people did that, cause it's extremely messed up what humans do to those poor animals, but the Vick thing is over with now. Let it go. People make mistakes. Sure, it wasn't something he did on accident whatsoever. He knew very well what he was doing & getting himself into, and he's extremely immature, but I believe he deserves a second chance.

And about the Bloods and Crips example. I don't mean to take it out of context, cause everybody hates OJ Simpson, who killed his wife, but I had to make an example out of violence involving human beings, not animals. I love both, but it can go both ways, as far as examples of violence go.