http://wbztv.com/local/molly.bish.murder.2.922944.html

A man facing murder charges in Florida is getting another look from investigators in the Molly Bish murder case.

Investigators have already questioned 60-year-old Rodney Stanger in Bish's 2000 murder.

Sources tell WBZ that investigators are going to try to do some forensic testing and are interviewing Stanger's family and friends.
Stanger was living in Sturbridge at the time of Bish's disappearance.

He bears some resemblance to the sketch of a man seen in the area when Bish went missing.

The teen girl's remains were found three years later.

Stanger is currently behind bars in Florida accused of killing his girlfriend.

There is definitely a resemblance between the composite sketch and Rodney Stanger

Very interesting indeed

I wonder if there's a Stanger photo circa 2000 that we could compare with the Bish sketch

I wonder if there's a Stanger photo circa 2000 that we could compare with the Bish sketch
That would be helpful. With those two pictures, given the age difference, and that one is a frontal shot and the other is a half-profile/half-frontal, I don't really see a whole lot of resemblance.

For some reason, the sketch always made me think that the perp was an hispanic man, even though the witness described a white man.

I think there's something too (unintentionally) hispanic looking about the sketch.

It could be something as simple as the fact that it's a pencil style sketch, so the shading on the face is dark. I remember when those two girls were murdered in OK (?) last year and the sketch was of a native american. It was done in black and white, but sort of in a different way than this sketch, at it made the guy look like he had white hair, and made him look much older than the description of the perp. Later, they colorized that sketch.

And holy crap! Rodney the girlfriend murderer is only 60 years old?!? WTH?

Did the news report get his age right? If so, old Rodney looks worse than thirty miles of bad road.

My dad (you remember, I'm always blabbing about him spending 20 years as a drunk and flying through car windshields, even once being pronounced dead at the scene) yeah him... my old hard livin hard partying dad is 68 years old and looks young enough to be this geezer's son.

Old Rodney here is like the poster child for a "don't drink it, snort it, or shoot it up" campaign.

Just say NO, people! Say NO to drugs or you'll end up looking like Rodney, the bastard child of a perverted mall Santy Claus and the Wicked Witch of the West.

If had known nothing about this case, nor the years that have passed between the sketch and Rodney's mugshot, and I had just those two pictures to base an opinion on, I'd say they are definitely not the same man and don't look anything alike.

I have to actually remember the time gap, that Rodney has aged nearly 10 years since the sketch was drawn, and then look for the small clues, to be able to draw any comparisons.

The hairline at the brow is exactly the same shape on both men. They both have the same size and shape sideburns, even this many years apart.

They both have heavy upper eyelids, ears with large lobes, and very large thick moustaches. (And it looks to me likle Rodney's used to be black.)

In the perp sketch, he has cheek folds that Rodney also has. In the Rodney photo, those cheek folds look just like they would on a man who has aged so badly.

They both have a small lower lip and somewhat prominent chin.

If the perp sketch is Rodney, and he had naturally black hair when young, then for his hair to be white now is expected. People with hair that color usually go white, rather than gray, as they age.

Two the of main differences I see are the nose. The sketch shows a man with a pointy or sharp featured nose. Rodney's nose is bulbous on the tip, but maybe that's just from 9 years of hard drinking since the sketch was done.

The other difference is that the perp has fat cheeks and a fat lower face, and Rodney has a thin face. If they are the same man, then possibly this difference could be attributed to Rodney being sick, did too much drugs, or drank a lot of booze instead of eating decent food.

I wonder if driver's license bureaus would have earlier photos of Rodney, or if there are earlier mug shots available. Surely he must have a couple other mugshots out there, I bet he's been popped for drunk driving a lot. They would have taken him to the station for a photo session on a DUI charge. We need to dig up more Rodney glamour shots.

New profile of Bish case on cnn.com.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/03/grace.coldcase.bish/index.html

Just say NO, people! Say NO to drugs or you'll end up looking like Rodney, the bastard child of a perverted mall Santy Claus and the Wicked Witch of the West.

Tracy, you crack me up. :lol:

Circumstancial evidence is piling up against Stanger, imo.

This article says that Molly's family members think Stanger resembles the sketch of the perp.

Stanger lived near the area where Molly was killed and he often hunted and fished right at Comins pond, where Molly was abducted from.

He's the right age for the perp description, which was late 40s in 2000 and darn close to 60 in 2009.

He sold his house and moved to FL shortly after Molly was murdered, but the article doesn't give any dates.

And this is the clincher for me, his brother owned a white chrysler like the one Molly's mom described the man driving.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/03/grace.coldcase.bish/index.html

Those are interesting circumstances, but they are going to need more than that to convict him. I don't think those facts, even taken together, are enough to charge him, much less to convict.

I do hope they find out what happened to Molly one day. I have a special empathy for her because I worked at a lifeguard at a lake when I was in high school, and there were a few occasions when no one was there but me and some guy. I don't remember ever fearing for my safety, but when I first read about Molly's case, it really shook me.

I'm such a flake... I just now realized that I'm six hours late with this news, as it was posted just a couple up from mine earlier today.

I'll be interested to see if the authorities can track down the brother with white chrysler.

I wonder if the brother is older or younger, and when they find him, will he look more like the sketch than Stanger?

I'm such a flake... I just now realized that I'm six hours late with this news, as it was posted just a couple up from mine earlier today.

I'll be interested to see if the authorities can track down the brother with white chrysler.

I wonder if the brother is older or younger, and when they find him, will he look more like the sketch than Stanger?
And even more importantly, will he have any recollection whatsoever of his brother's whereabouts the day before all those news reports about that local girl going missing and whether he had lent his car to him that day?

I have tons of questions, too. I seriously doubt that the brother will remember anything about the where abouts of his car that day, if he's turned out to be a raggedy ass old drunk like Stanger.

I'm wondering, did he really lend his car to Stanger that day? Or was the brother driving his own white chrysler to Comin's pond? Brothers often look alike and that could explain why the perp in the sketch looks similar to Stanger but has a fatter face. What if murdering runs in the family, the brother killed Molly, and a few years later, Stanger murdered and decapitated his own girlfriend.

If it was Stanger who was seen in the car, did he borrow it with his brother's knowledge, or did he take the car, parked at the brother's house unattended, for a drive out to comin's pond while his brother was at work, in a different vehicle?

Where was Stanger working at the time this happened? Why was he able to be out trolling for victims on a Tuesday morning? Was he unemployed? Worked nights? Or did he take the day off, and his absence is noted in his employment records?

If had known nothing about this case, nor the years that have passed between the sketch and Rodney's mugshot, and I had just those two pictures to base an opinion on, I'd say they are definitely not the same man and don't look anything alike.

I have to actually remember the time gap, that Rodney has aged nearly 10 years since the sketch was drawn, and then look for the small clues, to be able to draw any comparisons.

The hairline at the brow is exactly the same shape on both men. They both have the same size and shape sideburns, even this many years apart.

They both have heavy upper eyelids, ears with large lobes, and very large thick moustaches. (And it looks to me likle Rodney's used to be black.)

In the perp sketch, he has cheek folds that Rodney also has. In the Rodney photo, those cheek folds look just like they would on a man who has aged so badly.

They both have a small lower lip and somewhat prominent chin.

If the perp sketch is Rodney, and he had naturally black hair when young, then for his hair to be white now is expected. People with hair that color usually go white, rather than gray, as they age.

Two the of main differences I see are the nose. The sketch shows a man with a pointy or sharp featured nose. Rodney's nose is bulbous on the tip, but maybe that's just from 9 years of hard drinking since the sketch was done.

The other difference is that the perp has fat cheeks and a fat lower face, and Rodney has a thin face. If they are the same man, then possibly this difference could be attributed to Rodney being sick, did too much drugs, or drank a lot of booze instead of eating decent food.

I wonder if driver's license bureaus would have earlier photos of Rodney, or if there are earlier mug shots available. Surely he must have a couple other mugshots out there, I bet he's been popped for drunk driving a lot. They would have taken him to the station for a photo session on a DUI charge. We need to dig up more Rodney glamour shots.

I don't really put a whole lot of stock in eyewitness testimony as a general rule, but I think we need to keep in mind that a composite sketch based on the glimpses a few people had of a man and then tried to remember days, weeks, months, or even years later IS NOT a photograph, or even a drawing made by someone who was looking directly at this Rodney character while s/he drew it: in short, the sketch sufficiently resembles Rodney so that, if there is even one other piece of evidence that suggests he might be involved in something like this, he should be given a long, hard look. I would say that his resemblance to the sketch, plus his criminal record and the fact that he lived in the town where Bish disappeared at the time she disappeared makes him, for now, a very good suspect.

No one is getting convicted on the basis of a composite sketch - it's only a tool for identifying good leads. It seems to me this sketch did just that.

I don't really put a whole lot of stock in eyewitness testimony as a general rule, but I think we need to keep in mind that a composite sketch based on the glimpses a few people had of a man and then tried to remember days, weeks, months, or even years later IS NOT a photograph, or even a drawing made by someone who was looking directly at this Rodney character while s/he drew it: in short, the sketch sufficiently resembles Rodney so that, if there is even one other piece of evidence that suggests he might be involved in something like this, he should be given a long, hard look. I would say that his resemblance to the sketch, plus his criminal record and the fact that he lived in the town where Bish disappeared at the time she disappeared makes him, for now, a very good suspect.

No one is getting convicted on the basis of a composite sketch - it's only a tool for identifying good leads. It seems to me this sketch did just that.

I don't get what you're trying to point out to me. I didn't say to hang this guy based on a ten year old sketch and I didn't say that he's an impossible match to it. I merely stated my opinions on how I thought the sketch and Stanger were similar and how they were different.

I am very aware that a composite drawing is not an actual photograph of the perpetrator. I also know that it wasn't drawn by the person who saw him. However, in this particular case, the sketch wasn't made from glimpses of a few people who tried to remember what he looked like later.

The source for the details that make up this sketch came from the memory of Molly's mother, who on the day before Molly's disappearance, looked at the perp quite carefully, purposefully making eye contact with him, and even noting the way he held his cigarette.

hmm... I might have to start putting a disclaimer on my posts, stating that I'm not a professional investigator, and as a bored, retired housewife, the comments made by me within this forum are not meant to be used in the prosecution or defense of any persons who may be charged with a crime now or in the future, also for the record, Gir rocks and I leave you to your moosey fate.

Time for dinner...

I don't get what you're trying to point out to me. I didn't say to hang this guy based on a ten year old sketch and I didn't say that he's an impossible match to it. I merely stated my opinions on how I thought the sketch and Stanger were similar and how they were different.

I am very aware that a composite drawing is not an actual photograph of the perpetrator. I also know that it wasn't drawn by the person who saw him. However, in this particular case, the sketch wasn't made from glimpses of a few people who tried to remember what he looked like later.

The source for the details that make up this sketch came from the memory of Molly's mother, who on the day before Molly's disappearance, looked at the perp quite carefully, purposefully making eye contact with him, and even noting the way he held his cigarette.

hmm... I might have to start putting a disclaimer on my posts, stating that I'm not a professional investigator, and as a bored, retired housewife, the comments made by me within this forum are not meant to be used in the prosecution or defense of any persons who may be charged with a crime now or in the future, also for the record, Gir rocks and I leave you to your moosey fate.

Time for dinner...

Well, it just seemed to me that the level of detail you were going into in analyzing whether the man in the sketch and this Rodney person looked EXACTLY alike seemed to miss the forest for the trees: the sketch, in a general way, resembles this man. That's about the best I think you can hope from any composite sketch, particularly because, even if the eyewitness making the description remembers the person EXACTLY, the person making the sketch never saw the person, so there is always a degree of separaion involved in any police sketch. Combined with his criminal record and the fact that he lived in the town where Molly Bish lived, I believe that Rodney is a very good suspect, and therefore stands a good chance of being the person depicted by the sketch. In any event, the purpose of a police sketch is, I would argue, somewhat defeated by the kind of minutely detailed comparison of the sketch to a particular person that you were doing. The point of the sketch is to get the essence of what someone looked like - the level of analysis you were performing was, in my opinion, a level not intended by the original artist. Perhaps I am wrong. I was not trying to be rude.

And, I ask this in all sincerity - What is a Gir, and what is a moosey fate?

the level of analysis you were performing was, in my opinion, a level not intended by the original artist.

So you don't want me to discuss the case in any detail and to limit my observations to, "The sketch may or may not resemble Stanger"? The end. How boring is that? I thought it would be interesting to bring the subject up, and see if anyone agreed or disagreed with my opinions, for the sole purpose of making conversation.

I'm confident that the sketch artist did not intend for every pencil stroke to be nitpicked down to the smallest detail. I'm not performing an analysis on anything, not the sketch, the perp, the murder, nothing. I'm just an anonymous person out here on the interwebs, talking with people who I thought had interests similar to mine.

Now, if I were involved in this case in a professional capacity, absolutely everything would be different. (Firstly, I wouldn't be on this message board discussing the case.) The details in my post comparing the sketch to the Stanger wouldn't be considered as anything remotely close to evidence. Especially because if I were actually involved, I wouldn't be relying amateur methods like making guesses and suppositions, and I would never submit such silliness in a report for the case file.

You're coming across like your my boss and I'm some kind of rookie detective who isn't performing her job to your satisfaction. My post means nothing to this case. It's just chatting with other members here.

My comparisions and differences regarding Stanger and the sketch mean nothing. It has no bearing on this case, nor would it influence anyone involved. It's just benign internet chatter.

I could compare Stanger to my dog and get the same results. Let's see... Stanger and my dog both have large ears and a prematurely aged, sagging face. Quite similar. However, Stanger is much taller than my dog, even when my dog walks around upright, on just his hind legs. Assuming that the information is correct about Stanger's age, 60, then he is much older than my dog. Because the differences outweigh the similarities that I observe between my dog and Stanger, I don't think they're the same person.

See what I mean? That comparison also has not bearing on this case. You're interpreting my post way too seriously, it's just conversation.

Now on to Gir and moosey fate. This will be really boring: Gir is my avatar. He's my favorite cartoon character. "I leave you to your moosey fate" is a line from the cartoon where Gir's master, an alien masquerading as a student, who's on a mission to take over earth, believes that he has kidnapped his classmates and locked them in an empty room with a squeaky toy moose. (Gir's master doesn't understand humans, thinks that they are terrified of the moose, and has therefore left them to the worst possible fate.)

In his triumph, he exclaims, "I leave you to your moosey fate!" expecting to have ultimate control over the humans, finally completing his mission of world domination. Then there's the very anticlimatic scene where the squeaky moose toy frightens no one, the captives just shrug their sholders and walk away, leaving the alien confused about why his diabolical moosey plan didn't work.

So yeah, its one of those things where you had to be there....

TracyLynnS, you are killing me. Way to funny :lol:

TracyLynnS, you are killing me. Way to funny :lol:

Thank you.

After the convo I've just had in this thread, I feel like I have to walk around on egg shells to keep from inadvertently offending people.

Since I enjoy talking about these cases to folks on the boards here, it gives me the sads :crying: to have to censor myself and second guess anything I might want to share.

It's no fun feeling like I can't participate without being openly criticized.

Now on to Gir and moosey fate. This will be really boring: Gir is my avatar. He's my favorite cartoon character. "I leave you to your moosey fate" is a line from the cartoon where Gir's master, an alien masquerading as a student, who's on a mission to take over earth, believes that he has kidnapped his classmates and locked them in an empty room with a squeaky toy moose. (Gir's master doesn't understand humans, thinks that they are terrified of the moose, and has therefore left them to the worst possible fate.)

In his triumph, he exclaims, "I leave you to your moosey fate!" expecting to have ultimate control over the humans, finally completing his mission of world domination. Then there's the very anticlimatic scene where the squeaky moose toy frightens no one, the captives just shrug their sholders and walk away, leaving the alien confused about why his diabolical moosey plan didn't work.

So yeah, its one of those things where you had to be there....

Invader Zim is one of my favorite cartoons of all time...and yeah, you had to be there to get it.:p

Thank you.

After the convo I've just had in this thread, I feel like I have to walk around on egg shells to keep from inadvertently offending people.

Since I enjoy talking about these cases to folks on the boards here, it gives me the sads :crying: to have to censor myself and second guess anything I might want to share.

It's no fun feeling like I can't participate without being openly criticized.


Been there. You just post what you want. Ignore the criticism. Just don't respond. Just roll your eyes and share away.

Invader Zim is one of my favorite cartoons of all time...and yeah, you had to be there to get it.:p

I have the whole collection on DVD. I *love* Invader Zim. Best show ever! What a bummer that they canceled it.

TracyLynnS - the beauty of the boards is everyone can read and comment or ignore as they wish. Don't feel the need to censor yourself. I've enjoyed your analysis and insight!

Isn't it great that we can all express our differences and opinions without fear of anything more than perhaps bruised feelings? In some countries we'd be jailed! (or fed to the mooses ;) )

TracyLynnS - the beauty of the boards is everyone can read and comment or ignore as they wish. Don't feel the need to censor yourself. I've enjoyed your analysis and insight!

Isn't it great that we can all express our differences and opinions without fear of anything more than perhaps bruised feelings? In some countries we'd be jailed! (or fed to the mooses ;) )

Everything you said.

Upon further review, it looks like I misinterpreted the whole of TracyLynnS's original post. I suppose I was thrown by this in the opening statement:

If had known nothing about this case, nor the years that have passed between the sketch and Rodney's mugshot, and I had just those two pictures to base an opinion on, I'd say they are definitely not the same man and DON'T LOOK ANYTHING ALIKE. (emphasis mine)

In my defense, it was that notion - that Rodney looked NOTHING LIKE the composite sketch - that originally drew my criticism. That said, I should have read more carefully the rest of your post; you do go on to say that they do look enough alike to be the same man. So, I apologize for misinterpreting you (and I did see your most recent post in the Circleville Letters thread on this topic).

Just saw the Molly Bish story again today......so sad a life ending that young.

So, I saw my first episiode of Haunted Evidence. I never even knew this show existed until last night, but I was looking for something to engage my mind last night that would distract me from last night's heartbreaking loss in the World Series for my beloved Phillies, and I came across this show on TruTV (nee CourtTV), and the episode I saw was actually profiling the Molly Bish Case.

For openers: I did get one new piece of information out of what I watched - I don't recall the UM segment mentioning there had been a first aid kit left open near to where Molly's work station was. Perhaps it did and I forgot it, or perhaps this was a piece of info withheld by the investigators to try to verify tips, but either way this was news to me.

However, the rest of the show was a near-perfect demonstration of why psychics are USELESS. My first reaction was, literally, "Why is there a show about Psychics on something calling itself TRUE tv?", but then that just fits in with the general pattern of cable networks ignoring their apparent mandates: 90% of what is on Comedy Central isn't funny, no music ever airs on MTV, etc.

But beyond that, here were a couple of psychics going through their little performances - walking around with their eyes closed, "feeling" fear or struggle or whatever, adding NOTHING of value to this investigation AT ALL. At the opening of the episode, we're told that the two "mediums" they have employed were given no information about this case prior to coming out to the site of Molly's disappearance. But, just for starters, this show was produced in 2006 - or four years AFTER the Unsolved Mysteries segment aired on this case. Is there any chance two people trying to bilk a living out of people by mimicking "paranormal abilities" to solve crimes DIDN'T watch UM when it was on? So, we're supposed to be real impressed when the one guy guesses Molly was blond with blue eyes. First of all, it's New England. Lots of fair skinned people, so this would be a reasonably good guess under any circumstances. Secondly, they don't show us the other woman's guess, and I'll bet they asked her to make one too, so our sense of the odds are being manipulated. Thirdly, he does eventually meet her parents, though it's not entirely clear when that happens - if he sees them before making his guess, well, DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Next, they take these two "psychics" to the place where Molly's bathing suit and body were discovered. To the exact places. So the psychics are flat GIVEN information. Then, the female psychic claims that the killer had scoped out the location where Molly's remains were found ahead of time, suggesting that he "practiced" by carrying something heavy up the hill to see if he could physically do it first. This is 1) a reasonable guess, 2) totally unprovable, and 3) even if it was provable, entirely irrelevant. Good job psychic! We see the other psychic, meanwhile, with Molly's parents, telling them vaguely quasi-religious reassuring things, like "love is a trong emotion," and "she's gone from here, but she can stil visit you and feel your love."

*Sigh.* What's interesting is that, before this show aired, one of my other pet theories, that pretty much ALL of the suicides profiled on UM as having been perhaps murders instead are in fact suicides, was dealt a pretty significant blow by a show I watched about some dude who murdered his wife and girlfriend - 14 years apart - by stagining suicides in both cases. The murder of his wife was more sloppily executed, but he had gotten clean away with murdering his girlfriend and staging it to look like suicide, to the point that not only did the original coroner in that case rule it a suicide, so did the independent expert hired by the family to take a second look. So it's a lot more possible to stage a suicide than I had originally thought, and I have to admit I was wrong about that.

But the psychics -yikes. I mean, I can't say I was surprised, but it was more evident than even I had anticipated that these two con artists were full of it. They were supposedly tops in their field, and they were straight up awful.

However, the rest of the show was a near-perfect demonstration of why psychics are USELESS.

Psychics are a source. They are not witnesses or investigators.

Dealing with fautlty sources and incorrect information is par for the course in the investigative process.

Any fault in investigations lay with the lead investigator themselves.

The responsibility lies with the murder case primary.

Psychics are only used in cases where all resources have been exhausted normal investigative techniques.

Psychics are only used in cases where all resources have been exhausted normal investigative techniques.

One would hope.

But still, the very notion that such a thing as psychic detection is possible then stays as a plant in the minds of people doing the investigating, and becomes an open invitation to waste precious time and resources in all kinds of circumstances on people who have nothing to offer.

But still, the very notion that such a thing as psychic detection is possible then stays as a plant in the minds of people doing the investigating, and becomes an open invitation to waste precious time and resources in all kinds of circumstances on people who have nothing to offer.

I seriously doubt any police detective would use a psychic in the first 48 hours of investigation.

After that the 48 hour window, the case is for all intents and purposes cold and becomes difficult to solve. You really wouldn't be wasting any time that isn't already wasted.

There is a theory that many investigators adhere to that even following a wrong lead is productive. Any lead that gets people talking, investigators thinking and evidence being looked at is positive. There are no "time wasters" in cold case investigations.

In investigations you can easily run across lying witness, attention whores, serial confessers, and pranksters that can waste your time as well. But sadly, you have to see each of those people and follow their leads to the end.

You can't imagine how many times detectives have had to respond to leads from crackpots claiming to be serial killers. But you have to respond on the off-chance that the crackpot might actually be the killer your looking for. You can't afford to shrug them off.

Same with psychics, IMHO. Even if you think they might be crackpots, you have to still follow the lead on the chance that it might be genuine and solve the case.

Before I get to the sketch, I just wanted to say to TracyLynnS: I think you took offense at mozartpc27`s post when she did not say anything offensive. She was not calling you out for analyzing the sketch - she was just making the observation that sketches will always differ in certain details from the real person, and she said it cordially. Anyway, that little squabble took place over a year ago, so I am sure it is water under the bridge.

I think Stanger is the perp. The resemblance is uncanny, in my opinion. Much closer than in a lot of other cases. My reasons for believing in his guilt are just as mozartpc27 says: ``his resemblance to the sketch, plus his criminal record and the fact that he lived in the town where Bish disappeared at the time she disappeared.`` Not to mention the white Chrysler that belonged to his brother.

Another thing: and here is where I whip out one of my cockamamie theories that will probably be rightly ridiculed by the rest of you - and though it is against forum etiquette to ridicule other`s opinions, I give you full permission to drag this one through the mud in the vilest way your minds can come up with (this is probably a one-time offer, so take full advantage). I think a lot of sexual predators (the ones who kidnap, rape or molest, and murder) kind of look like their victims - which makes sense, because people tend to be attracted to those who look like them. I see a resemblance between the two - yes, he`s an ugly, dumpy old creepy looking gargoyle and she is a pretty young teenage girl, but there are certain resemblances (like in the nose, for instance). I see the same with Polly Klaas and her perp. At least, I kind of see it. Anyway, have at it . . .

"Before I get to the sketch, I just wanted to say to TracyLynnS: I think you took offense at mozartpc27`s post when she did not say anything offensive"

Wamisto, you're right. I was reading through this thread today, totally forgetting what I had written so long ago, and coming across those posts.... I must have lost my mind. I don't know why I was taking Mozart's comments so negatively. Reading them now, what she said sounds like normal discussion, not accusations or criticisms aimed at me. I definitely shouldn't have reacted like that.

"Before I get to the sketch, I just wanted to say to TracyLynnS: I think you took offense at mozartpc27`s post when she did not say anything offensive"

Wamisto, you're right. I was reading through this thread today, totally forgetting what I had written so long ago, and coming across those posts.... I must have lost my mind. I don't know why I was taking Mozart's comments so negatively. Reading them now, what she said sounds like normal discussion, not accusations or criticisms aimed at me. I definitely shouldn't have reacted like that.

Gee, thanks TracyLynnS ;) . I had long forgotten about all of this, though I am glad I apologized earlier in this thread for not reading your original post more carefully. :wave:

Oh, and I'm a "he," not a she Wamisto! :wave:

Hope that doesn't disappoint!

Gee, thanks TracyLynnS ;) . I had long forgotten about all of this, though I am glad I apologized earlier in this thread for not reading your original post more carefully. :wave:

Hi Mozart! I wasn't sure that you were still visiting here. I came back several days ago after being off the message boards for a few months.

Thanks for being so understanding, and even apologizing, tho you did nothing wrong. I was way out of line with those posts and really am sorry for acting so stupid. I'm glad it was all forgotten. I hope all is forgiven? :)

Hi Mozart! I wasn't sure that you were still visiting here. I came back several days ago after being off the message boards for a few months.

Thanks for being so understanding, and even apologizing, tho you did nothing wrong. I was way out of line with those posts and really am sorry for acting so stupid. I'm glad it was all forgotten. I hope all is forgiven? :)

Of course!

finding the killer in my book comes down to finding the man with the moustache that was smoking. he just seems TOO suspicious. Why was he hanging around that same spot for so long?? the problem, that sketch likely resembles many men.

Does ANYONE really doubt it's not Rodney Stranger?

I mean, ANYONE, really?

Let's see:

1) He fits the description and sketch perfectly.
2) He lived near their at the time.
3) He had the same car fitting the profile.
4) He hunted where her body was found.

And if it matters, he is a known murderer.

Does ANYONE really doubt it's not Rodney Stranger?

I mean, ANYONE, really?

Let's see:

1) He fits the description and sketch perfectly.
2) He lived near their at the time.
3) He had the same car fitting the profile.
4) He hunted where her body was found.

And if it matters, he is a known murderer.

I just came across this segment and watched it with my Mom. She remembers this story really well too. I have a strong feeling it was Rodney. Was there really no DNA or anything left on the swimsuit?

Oh, and I'm a "he," not a she Wamisto! :wave:


Oops! :blush: Well, looks like another apology is in order. I'm sorry. :)

Does ANYONE really doubt it's not Rodney Stranger?

I mean, ANYONE, really?

Let's see:

1) He fits the description and sketch perfectly.
2) He lived near their at the time.
3) He had the same car fitting the profile.
4) He hunted where her body was found.

And if it matters, he is a known murderer.

I would say he is the prime suspect. Any doubt? Well, sure. We've only got a police sketch, and we know about the reliability (or lack thereof) of eyewitness testimony. Until there is physical evidence linking Stanger to Bish's death, I can never say I am certain, or even more than 75% of the way to certain.

Has anyone heard anything new about this case or about Rodney Stanger? I watched the segment last night and got curious. I can't find anything "recent" online about Stanger's possible connection to the case past 2009.

And holy crap! Rodney the girlfriend murderer is only 60 years old?!? WTH?

Did the news report get his age right? If so, old Rodney looks worse than thirty miles of bad road.


I'd guess he's a smoker, which can make people look much older than they are. One summer in college I worked for a while with a guy whose son was in my high school class. Judging from his appearance I assumed he was older than my folks, but I later learned he was 10 years younger than them! :eek: But he smoked like a chimney his whole adult life, while my folks had quit many years before.

That doesn't always happen, though.

Well, the police are likely looking for a guy who smoked ALOT at the time of Bish's murder. I have seen this case on this psyhic show and while i am not sure how much i believe them, it's scary to think about how what happened to her, hopefully the police catch this guy.

If interested in this case, I highly recommend you watch the segment that was recently done on ID Discovery's show called "Disappeared." They devote an hour to this case and cover Stanger in detail. They start the case from the beginning and cover stuff UM did not. You can find "Disappeared" episodes on ID Discovery's website (though I cannot find this segment on their site. I have it on my DVR, however).

At any rate, I highly recommend "Disappeared" in general. It is the new UM as far as I am concerned.

If interested in this case, I highly recommend you watch the segment that was recently done on ID Discovery's show called "Disappeared." They devote an hour to this case and cover Stanger in detail. They start the case from the beginning and cover stuff UM did not. You can find "Disappeared" episodes on ID Discovery's website (though I cannot find this segment on their site. I have it on my DVR, however).

At any rate, I highly recommend "Disappeared" in general. It is the new UM as far as I am concerned.


I love that show too. Hell my tv stays on ID Discovery!!

i will DVR the show Disappearance on the Molly Bish case, i am very interested in hearing about this case, it's one of the many cases i want solved on UM along with others.

I just wanted to throw in that I caught the Disappeared episode a little while ago and was surprised to learn that her remains were found. I was under the impression they never found out what happened, though they presumed she had been killed.

I just wanted to throw in that I caught the Disappeared episode a little while ago and was surprised to learn that her remains were found. I was under the impression they never found out what happened, though they presumed she had been killed.
That's right. They were found, although I believe it happened a few years after her disappearance in an area that had already been searched. I don't believe it was mentioned in the UM segment (it's been a while since I've seen it).

Agreed, I DVR all of the Disappeared and have seen them all. It's the closest we have to UM.

Agreed, I DVR all of the Disappeared and have seen them all. It's the closest we have to UM.

Unfortunately, this is the first season I have ever seen of Disappeared, but apparently there have been 2 previous seasons. I have caught a few of the "old" episodes on that unmentionably evil website where you can watch free copyrighted videos. :D

Personally, I think that Robert R. Burno Jr. is a much better resemblance to the sketch then Rodney Stanger is in a few areas:

http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/ht_stanger_sketch_bish_090203_mn.jpghttp://www.telegram.com/storyimage/WT/20070809/NEWS/708090796/AR/0/AR-708090796.jpg&MaxH=225&MaxW=225

A few things to notice:

1. Weight: While Stanger is a fairly thin man with an oval shaped face, Burno is about the same weight and face shape (perhaps minus a few pounds or so) as the man in the sketch.

2. Eye Shape: Stangers eyes are a little more rounded, while Burno's eyes almost perfectly match the sketch.

3. Chin: Stangers chin sort of juts out with the shadow being just below his lower lip, while Burno's chin shadow is more of a U shape, which can also been seen on the sketch.

4. TracyLynnS has it right about the nose. Stangers nose is a little bulbous on the end, while Burno's nose is smaller, with a shape that again almost exactly matches the sketch.

IF I think of more I will post.

Link (http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/18611686/third-key-witness-in-murder-of-massachusetts-teen-molly-bish-dies)

WARREN, Mass. -- A witness in the disappearance of Massachusetts teenager Molly Bish has died -- the third death of a key source of information in the high-profile, 12-year-old murder case.

Bish, 16, was abducted from the beach at Comins Pond in Warren in June 2000 and murdered. Her body was found three years later after a massive search.

No one has ever been arrested in the case and it has been profiled on shows including America's Most Wanted and Unsolved Mysteries.

Now, one of Bish's close friends, who testified to the grand jury investigating her death, has died, myFOXboston.com reported.

Kenneth Tatro was 18 when she disappeared and told investigators he saw an older man staring at the teenager days before she was abducted.

Bish's sister, Heather, confirmed Tatro died recently in Florida.

His demise is the latest to affect the case. In June 2003, close friend Peter Rambiszewski died in a car accident the day after Bish's remains were found in Palmer.

Three years later, Bish's boyfriend Steven Lukas was also killed in a car crash in Palmer.

Her disappearance sparked the largest search operation in Massachusetts history. The lifeguard's remains were eventually found after a hunter spotted a blue bathing suit -- which she was last seen wearing -- in woods on Whiskey Hill, Palmer.

Bish's parents John and Magi set up the Molly Bish Foundation to raise awareness of child safety.

I can see a resemblance between both Burno and Stanger to the sketch. I also believe that if you put a mustache on Battistoni, there is also a good likeness. Of course the age might be off with regards to Battistoni.

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/11/possible_break_in_cold_case_mu.html


This article provides a decent comparison between Battistoni and the suspect sketch IMO.

that first guy just amazingly looks like the sketch that it's scary, if he did do the crime, then congrats to the sketch artist.

Found a recent article on her case:

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/18737882/items-where-massachusetts-teenager-molly-bishs-remains-found-sent-for-second-dna-test

Items where Massachusetts teenager Molly Bish's remains found sent for second DNA test


WARREN, Mass. -- Items taken from the scene where Massachusetts teenager Molly Bish's body was found are being sent for a second round of DNA testing.

The 16-year-old was abducted from the beach at Comins Pond in Warren in June 2000 and murdered. Her body was found three years later after a massive search.

No one ever was arrested in the case, which has been profiled on shows including "America's Most Wanted" and "Unsolved Mysteries."

Bish's family recently asked FBI profilers to take another look at possible suspects in the case, myFOXboston.com reported, including Massachusetts man Rodney Stanger, who state police officers are considering traveling to Florida to re-interview.

Stanger is serving time for the murder of his girlfriend in Florida. He maintains he has no connection to the Bish case.

Last month, a witness to Bish's disappearance died -- the third death of a key source of information in the high-profile murder case.

Kenneth Tatro, who was 18 when she disappeared and told investigators he saw an older man staring at the teenager days before she was abducted, died in Florida.

In June 2003, close friend Peter Rambiszewski died in a car accident the day after Bish's remains were found in Palmer. Three years later, Bish's boyfriend Steven Lukas was killed in a car crash in Palmer.

Read more: http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/18737882/items-where-massachusetts-teenager-molly-bishs-remains-found-sent-for-second-dna-test#ixzz1xxM2HVbE

I believe this has been posted before but to refresh your memory here is a picture of Rodney Stanger. IMO a dead ringer of the composite sketch.

http://www.fox23news.com/media/lib/7/e/d/0/ed0311b7-09d3-4fea-aa17-f44e910e40cf/Story.jpg

A recent article on the case:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/17/old-wallet-belonging-to-killer-might-hold-clues-in-murder-16-year-old-molly/?intcmp=obnetwork

I always thought the reenactment made Molly seem younger than 16.. I guess it was the actress who portrayed her

I was just reading about this case on Websleuths and of course I remember it from UM. Stanger looked like such a good possiability but all these years later he hasn't been charged and nothing mores been said...so I guess he isn't a suspect anymore? :( I hope they find who did this horrendous thing to Molly soon

Just clicked on crystaldawns link...looks like they haven't given up on him after all.

I was just reading about this case on Websleuths and of course I remember it from UM. Stanger looked like such a good possiability but all these years later he hasn't been charged and nothing mores been said...so I guess he isn't a suspect anymore? :( I hope they find who did this horrendous thing to Molly soon

Just clicked on crystaldawns link...looks like they haven't given up on him after all.

It appears they have not given up on Stanger as a suspect:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mass-state-police-head-fla-search-clues-decade/story?id=16907128#.UBmaTlLz7KR

Stranger does resemble the composite, but what ever became of the Robert Bruno Jr lead? I think he matches the composite even more so.

Here is a few new articles about her case:

http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/19039857/2012/07/16/new-evidence-discovered-involving-molly-bish-murder-person-of-interest

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/17/molly-bish-case_n_1680955.html

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/18/authorities-seize-items-from-home-person-interest-in-molly-bish-murder-case/

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57474612-504083/molly-bish-cold-case-murder-probe-eyeing-convicted-fla-killer/

http://news.yahoo.com/molly-bish-murder-case-brings-mass-state-police-191403302--abc-news-topstories.html

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/01/detectives-search-florida-home-convicted-killer-for-clues-in-molly-bish-murder/

http://thestir.cafemom.com/other/140574/new_clues_in_decadeold_molly

http://www.necn.com/08/02/12/New-developments-in-Molly-Bish-case/landing_newengland.html?blockID=750543&feedID=4206

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/08/03/mass-investigators-in-florida-for-molly-bish-holly-piirainen-cases/

From todays news on Bostons Ch 5 WCVB.

http://www.wcvb.com/news/investigative/Can-killer-s-jailhouse-interview-answer-Molly-Bish-questions/-/12520878/16779008/-/gv8v1oz/-/index.html

From todays news on Bostons Ch 5 WCVB.

http://www.wcvb.com/news/investigative/Can-killer-s-jailhouse-interview-answer-Molly-Bish-questions/-/12520878/16779008/-/gv8v1oz/-/index.html
One of the commenters stated on that article that Molly's blood was apparently on Stanger' knife: The DNA matched. Is this true? Because if it is, why isn't he being charged? I really hope they get some answers on this one. Have they interrogated him about the case?

Underground search for car possibly linked to Molly Bish’s unsolved murder

WEST BROOKFIELD, Mass. (WWLP) – It has been 17 years since Warren teenager Molly Bish was kidnapped and killed. Her murder remains a mystery, but investigators are working on new possible developments in the case.

Crews are using ground-penetrating radar to search for a white car at the Old Sawmill Campground in West Brookfield Thursday. Bish’s mother says she saw a white car the day before her daughter vanished. It was also allegedly seen in the area on the day of her disappearance.

Based on tips from her family’s “Just One Car” campaign, Bish’s sister, Heather, believes that car may be buried at the former campground.*The car is being considered the strongest clue into Bish’s disappearance.

Bish was 16 years-old when she vanished from Comins Pond, where she worked as a lifeguard. It wasn’t until three years later in 2003 that investigators found her remains in Palmer.

No one has been arrested in the case.

Private investigator Dr. Sarah Stein, who has been working with the Bish family for 15 years, is leading Thursday’s effort.

“We are searching for a vehicle that was in possession of our suspect at the time of her, related to her abduction and murder, and any other evidence related to her abduction and murder,” Stein said.

Stein said that they will stay on the property until dark searching Thursday, and will come back again on Friday if the car has not been found.

(6/15/17)

I have to admit that I never thought this case would be solved. I don't want to count my chickens too soon, but it sounds like there could be some resolution if they find this car they're looking for. Let's hope this resolves it.

Emmy-nominated television host and expert craftsman Thomas MacDonald (Rough Cut: Woodworking with Tommy Mac) has just released a new documentary style episodic series Murder Matters. The show shines a light on families living in the shadow of an unsolved murder by taking on home and community projects that transform spaces and lighten the heart.

The first episode features the family of 16-year-old Molly Bish, whose disappearance and murder in June of 2000 rocked her hometown of Warren, Massachusetts and prompted the largest search in the state's history. Over five short segments, Tommy and his wife Rachel visit the Bish family home. They hear chilling details of Molly's disappearance from her mother Magi. The series features case commentary from former Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis and conversations with siblings John Jr. and Heather magnifying the loss and strength of a family living with unsolved murder.

Leaning on his years as a professional carpenter and woodworker and his own experiences, Tommy forms a unique connection with the Bish family, allowing him to break down boundaries and make a positive impact on their home. He transforms badly neglected spaces where the family finds peace and solace. "Tommy changed my life box by box, container by container, and cupboard by cupboard," says Magi Bish. "Who would have thought sharing our stories of Grace and Molly would provide time to find me again?"

"Too often these families [of murder victims] become forgotten, or stuck," says MacDonald, who lost his sister Grace to an unsolved murder in 1990. "We want to give them an opportunity to tell their story, to tell the world about their loved one, and to do something positive in their home or community. There's no such thing as 'moving on' from a loss like this, but moving forward and finding joy in life again is priceless."

Currently the MacDonalds look forward to aligning with inspired production and distribution partners. "There are roughly 7,000 unsolved murders every year," says MacDonald. "Countless devastated families will be helped by our show."

Murder Matters is available for streaming through the website, www.murdermatters.com, on the Tommy Mac Facebook Watch Page, and on the Murder Matters Facebook Page.

Thanks for sharing, TJ. Sounds like a really cool idea. I liked watching "Rough Cut" so it will be cool to see Tommy on this show. It's nice to have a maker not only create something cool, but to use it to help those who have suffered so much.

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/person-of-interest-named-in-molly-bish-case/2397024/

What about Burno and Stanger?

Of course he's already dead :mad:

the way he was holding the cigarette in that picture...gross...

If you put a tache on him he certainly resembles the photo-fit strongly, but then again so did the other suspects & Saddam Hussein.

Another cold case may be a step closer to being solved:
https://nbc-2.com/news/crime/2021/06/04/person-of-interest-identified-in-disappearance-and-death-of-teenager-molly-bish/

With her sister's murder long unsolved, a woman turns to TikTok pleading for leads. Can you help? "48 Hours" correspondent Erin Moriarty reports Saturday, Dec. 6 at 10/9c on CBS and streaming on Paramount+.

Sneak peek: Help Find Molly Bish's Killer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrXWOvI-jbo)

wrXWOvI-jbo

With her sister's murder long unsolved, a woman turns to TikTok pleading for leads. Can you help? "48 Hours" correspondent Erin Moriarty reports Saturday, Dec. 6 at 10/9c on CBS and streaming on Paramount+.

Sneak peek: Help Find Molly Bish's Killer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrXWOvI-jbo)

wrXWOvI-jbo

thank you for posting, I'll be tuning in!

A pretty 16-year-old slained and murdered...

I watched the episode tonight and got more up to date than I was before. I actually wasn't aware of how Molly was found. it was hard to watch that process and to see the suffering that her family went through.

a few observations. it appears the investigators have a fair amount of evidence, but there is uncertainty about the preserved DNA quality. their DNA test from their named person of interest, Frank Sumner Sr. was inconclusive. but there was a twist. the DNA was pulled from his son Frank Sumner Jr. Frank Sr. passed away in 2016, was cremated, and a DNA sample was never gathered from him. that also caught the ire of Molly's sister. the investigators would not specify anymore about the test results from Frank Jr., which also upset the Bish family.

The Bish family has concerns about the DNA evidence that was gathered from the scene, but the investigators are being tight lipped about it and about everything else in general. They insinuated that they have other evidence aside from DNA, but would not say. They still say that Frank Sumner Sr. is a person of interest.

A new detective has been assigned to the case and she has vowed to solve the case. The new detective took the 48 HRS cameras into the evidence lab to show some of the evidence bags. but I did notice one small thing. the lab tech seemed to be unsure of what the evidence was, for example she made a comment about a label being different from what the contents were. and she also seemed stumped when asked by 48 HRS whether or not certain items in a particular bag had been tested.

I watched the episode last night. I’m slightly encouraged that they’re looking into this suspect, but since he is deceased, it may be a while before we learn anything new.

Some other tidbits that were mentioned broke my heart. Like the fact that during that last car ride to drop Molly off at the pond, her mother had mentioned how worried she was about that man she had seen at the pond the day before…and Molly wasn’t concerned and told her mother not to worry.

Also, the footage they showed of Molly’s parents in 2003 when they were shown the picture of Molly’s bathing suit, which had just been discovered in the woods…seeing Magi’s face when her last bit of hope was crushed was heartbreaking. This should have been a private moment for the parents. They should NOT have had cameras recording their pain at one of the lowest moments of their lives.

And then seeing the footage of the parents out there thanking and shaking hands with all the workers who were recovering Molly’s remains….something that took multiple days to do. My goodness. I haven’t teared up this badly to a 48 Hours episode since they covered Jacob Wetterling a couple years ago.

I watched the episode last night. I’m slightly encouraged that they’re looking into this suspect, but since he is deceased, it may be a while before we learn anything new.

Some other tidbits that were mentioned broke my heart. Like the fact that during that last car ride to drop Molly off at the pond, her mother had mentioned how worried she was about that man she had seen at the pond the day before…and Molly wasn’t concerned and told her mother not to worry.

Also, the footage they showed of Molly’s parents in 2003 when they were shown the picture of Molly’s bathing suit, which had just been discovered in the woods…seeing Magi’s face when her last bit of hope was crushed was heartbreaking. This should have been a private moment for the parents. They should NOT have had cameras recording their pain at one of the lowest moments of their lives.

And then seeing the footage of the parents out there thanking and shaking hands with all the workers who were recovering Molly’s remains….something that took multiple days to do. My goodness. I haven’t teared up this badly to a 48 Hours episode since they covered Jacob Wetterling a couple years ago.

true it was hard to watch her parents suffering and her sister as well. It seems like her sister has taken on the role to keep the case alive and seemed encouraged by the new investigator. I am skeptical though that it will be solved due to the circumstances. an aspect that always bothers me about women and children being abducted: there's typically no shortage of potential suspects in a particular area that are prior offenders and fit the profile for a similar crime. I hope I'm wrong and that justice is found for Molly's family.

I am a little perplexed at how you can be kidnapped from a pond/lake that would have had guests arriving shortly. I am not saying it can't happen, and obviously it did, but it just seemed like it would have been a long walk to get her back to the car, in daylight as well. No witnesses saw this?

I am a little perplexed at how you can be kidnapped from a pond/lake that would have had guests arriving shortly. I am not saying it can't happen, and obviously it did, but it just seemed like it would have been a long walk to get her back to the car, in daylight as well. No witnesses saw this?

Not really a long walk. He dragged her though the trees to the cemetery where he most likely parked. It's away from the entrance completely hidden. Molly's father was most likely correct when he suspected the man probably faked an injury (which is why her first aid kit was open) and when she walked over to the tree area to help him, he probably grabbed her.

The speed of which it happened was extremely creepy. We're talking about an 8–10-minute window from the time Magi dropped her off at the pond to when a mother and her two young children walked on to the beach and discovered Molly's lifeguard stand and things abandoned. This whole kidnapping was planned. It doesn't seem like a wrong place/wrong time event. An abduction like this wouldn't have been successful if it were a spur of the moment thing.

Not really a long walk. He dragged her though the trees to the cemetery where he most likely parked. It's away from the entrance completely hidden. Molly's father was most likely correct when he suspected the man probably faked an injury (which is why her first aid kit was open) and when she walked over to the tree area to help him, he probably grabbed her.

The speed of which it happened was extremely creepy. We're talking about an 8–10-minute window from the time Magi dropped her off at the pond to when a mother and her two young children walked on to the beach and discovered Molly's lifeguard stand and things abandoned. This whole kidnapping was planned. It doesn't seem like a wrong place/wrong time event. An abduction like this wouldn't have been successful if it were a spur of the moment thing.
agree, and if it was planned that really points the finger directly at the guy that Molly's mom saw the day prior. But the sickening thing... is that could have just been a different guy and not the one who took her. It's disheartening when you find out how many evil people are out there when you start investigating a disappearance of a young girl or adult women.