DTF955
01-13-2009, 09:37 AM
The Chronology is updated, rkoradio and I can't think of anything else to add, and it's all been fleshed out well. Thanks to all who helped. You can find it e-mailing fullhousechron (at) aol.com, and check the fan fiction of "Me" and "RKORadio" at www.fanfiction.net, too.
While it was begun as a suggestion on yahoo groups to explain loose ends and such, it served to answer a few complaints, too. It would be nice if more threads would realize the complexity of life and mention the problem, rather than just the symptom. Because, fans cut Jesse (and Danny, but he's understandable if it's depression) way too much slack for the fact they complain about Michelle's attitude so much. The Chronology solves that, too. :-)
Anyway, more may have been done in figuring out that other 99.75% - as I say in the previous post, of course, if any of our childhoods had only had the worst 1/4 of 1% shown, you'd get a far different picture than viewing the whole. And, that's the view quite a few take on this board; that's fine.
If not for two things, I might have gone with that, and the Chronology might have been a good deal less fun. :-)
One was the professional element, which writers either didn't know or care about; I know how pediatricians handle things, what they tell patients, etc.; I know more child development than some. It's interesting that someone pointed out that maybe Danny didn't use negative consequences because that wasn't his strategy by that time; that might have worked if he hadn't used them with D.J. and Stephanie. :-) But, it didn't make sense to say he'd use a different strategy for raising the girls with one than with the others.
The other is the complaints. For anyone who lost out on the polls as to how Michelle would be handled, if you voted that D.J. wouldn't/couldn't do much, you can thank those who insist so stronlgy someone had to do something. Instead of just hearing someone had to do something, the Chronology was all about figuring out what *did* happen. And, a joint effort, with Danny facing minor depression issues, was seen as best. D.J. having to get mighty tough at times was seen as best. As you can see reading, it flows well, and makes sense if one segment won the votes, which it did. The beauty of democracy in action. :-).
At least you can have the satisfaction of knowing a few episodes, or things in episodes, were totally written out as not having happened. Like a pen pal who wants to tell a joke but doesn't really tell you what actually happened. You can at least take satisfaction that everyone realized there was so much weird with "A House Divided" it was seen as a dream; the whole thing was! I'll bet it not happening really brightens some days. :-)
Without the excessive complaints, what happens? Well, probably still the same, we'd have still had voti9ng and the like. Some would still have voted that D.J. would have had to spank Michelle with light fwaps once for her to be as good as she was in seaons 7 and 8 (and believe me, she's nowhere near the monster a child with no discipline would be). I think we still would have come up with the "tale of two princesses" where D.J. tells Michelle she's willing and uses psychological warfare to make it seem like it'd be worse than it would be, to keep those who thought she had to get that tough satisfied. Fans didn't want to see that happen, but really tried hard to find a reason it wouldn't have to. They did flock to that idea once it was proposed.
So, I think a lot of fans, even if they weren't vocal complainers, felt something was wrong with how Danny wouldn't discipline, and that Michelle would be adversely affected in a very bad way unless someone did something. As the Chronology says in early season 2, after the talk with Dr. Landress:
------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesse - Why Jesse never punished Michelle:
I never punished Michelle, because I couldn't stand to punish anyone.[1] Not the way my dad yelled; he would scream so much, and I never wanted to be like that. I could hardly stand to start punishing my own kids, I was so afraid of turning into him.
Still, after a timeout or some time when she lost dessert, if she was about to do the same thing, I mentioned what D.J. had done to discipline her, and she'd usually listen. She obeyed me pretty well, because we had that bond, but also because D.J. was boss. I supported her just like Danny did, saying she was right to put her in timeout. That would be crucial for all of us, as we'd learn later.
If Michelle didn't listen, like when I thought she'd hidden my keys,[2] I turned to D.J.. That time, of course, D.J. didn't threaten timeout. She wasn't that sure Michelle had done it, given the lack of a guilty look, and she hadn't. By then, D.J. had learned when to punish and when to just talk, though it was rough on her to react so much.
Joey - Why Joey never punished Michelle, either:
I wasn't as worried as Jesse about becoming my dad. Okay, I might have been a touch, given how strict he could be,[3] but I knew setting limits wasn't the same as making someone stand at attention and sounding mean. Still, I was more interested in being accepted, so I could have that childhood I felt I'd missed.
If I'd put my foot down more and not played so much, like saying we could play hockey in the house, Michelle never would have expected me to play a game to find a ring she hid.[4] None of us adults could give the consistent discipline Michelle needed. I was good at distracting her. But, I wasn't ready to enforce limits myself.
Michelle would never have learned to behave at all without someone doing what Danny should have. However, he was barely willing to let D.J. do it, and that only because the doctor warned him it needed done. We wouldn't do it, and she eventually learned she didn't have to obey us much. Thankfully, her sisters were there.
[1] Since he couldn't put his own kids in timeout in "Tough Love" till pushed, it would be impossible for him to have punished Michelle, as he'd be used to it by "Tough Love."
[2] "Lust In the Dust"
[3] "Viva Las Joey" - Joey's reaction standing so straight upon hearing his dad is not normal for a parent-child relationship, but he lightens up fast enough it probably wasn't a huge problem.
[4] "Ol' Brown Eyes" - his saying they could play hockey in the house ("A Pinch for a Pinch") is another indication he could never have punished Michelle. The only possible candidate for disciplining Michelle besides D.J. is Stephanie, and most feel she wouldn't know how to nearly as effectively.------------------------------------------------------------------
There are other signs Jesse never put her in timeout, too, like in the episode with her first punishment, and in "The Long Goodbye," where he talks tough and that's it.
So, clearly, something needed done. Fans saw that, like many on here did. They reasoned that D.J. would have known Pam the longest. To show a spirit of working together, and accept hat she wouldn't know everything, not only her guidance counselor and the doctor, but Becky gets mention as people who advise D.J..
Thanks to the one who inspired me to put Dr. Landress as a contributor, by the way.
I think some of the complainants, too, miss a very important point that they may not want to see if they're girls or women with a crush on Jesse. Jesse's influence was the main reason why Michelle isn't a lot better behaved. His attitude - "rules are meant to be broken" - is so prevalent in Michelle sometimes, that there's another reason why it was decided not to go with the notion that this 1/4 of 1% was not a true indication of Michelle's behavior. Again, if you want to say this wasn't a true indication, that's fine, but it seemed to most fans that Jesse's influence was huge; huge enough that Michelle needed D.J. to intervene quite a bit.
Anyway, thanks to all for reading and contributing, and God Bless. Happy reading.
While it was begun as a suggestion on yahoo groups to explain loose ends and such, it served to answer a few complaints, too. It would be nice if more threads would realize the complexity of life and mention the problem, rather than just the symptom. Because, fans cut Jesse (and Danny, but he's understandable if it's depression) way too much slack for the fact they complain about Michelle's attitude so much. The Chronology solves that, too. :-)
Anyway, more may have been done in figuring out that other 99.75% - as I say in the previous post, of course, if any of our childhoods had only had the worst 1/4 of 1% shown, you'd get a far different picture than viewing the whole. And, that's the view quite a few take on this board; that's fine.
If not for two things, I might have gone with that, and the Chronology might have been a good deal less fun. :-)
One was the professional element, which writers either didn't know or care about; I know how pediatricians handle things, what they tell patients, etc.; I know more child development than some. It's interesting that someone pointed out that maybe Danny didn't use negative consequences because that wasn't his strategy by that time; that might have worked if he hadn't used them with D.J. and Stephanie. :-) But, it didn't make sense to say he'd use a different strategy for raising the girls with one than with the others.
The other is the complaints. For anyone who lost out on the polls as to how Michelle would be handled, if you voted that D.J. wouldn't/couldn't do much, you can thank those who insist so stronlgy someone had to do something. Instead of just hearing someone had to do something, the Chronology was all about figuring out what *did* happen. And, a joint effort, with Danny facing minor depression issues, was seen as best. D.J. having to get mighty tough at times was seen as best. As you can see reading, it flows well, and makes sense if one segment won the votes, which it did. The beauty of democracy in action. :-).
At least you can have the satisfaction of knowing a few episodes, or things in episodes, were totally written out as not having happened. Like a pen pal who wants to tell a joke but doesn't really tell you what actually happened. You can at least take satisfaction that everyone realized there was so much weird with "A House Divided" it was seen as a dream; the whole thing was! I'll bet it not happening really brightens some days. :-)
Without the excessive complaints, what happens? Well, probably still the same, we'd have still had voti9ng and the like. Some would still have voted that D.J. would have had to spank Michelle with light fwaps once for her to be as good as she was in seaons 7 and 8 (and believe me, she's nowhere near the monster a child with no discipline would be). I think we still would have come up with the "tale of two princesses" where D.J. tells Michelle she's willing and uses psychological warfare to make it seem like it'd be worse than it would be, to keep those who thought she had to get that tough satisfied. Fans didn't want to see that happen, but really tried hard to find a reason it wouldn't have to. They did flock to that idea once it was proposed.
So, I think a lot of fans, even if they weren't vocal complainers, felt something was wrong with how Danny wouldn't discipline, and that Michelle would be adversely affected in a very bad way unless someone did something. As the Chronology says in early season 2, after the talk with Dr. Landress:
------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesse - Why Jesse never punished Michelle:
I never punished Michelle, because I couldn't stand to punish anyone.[1] Not the way my dad yelled; he would scream so much, and I never wanted to be like that. I could hardly stand to start punishing my own kids, I was so afraid of turning into him.
Still, after a timeout or some time when she lost dessert, if she was about to do the same thing, I mentioned what D.J. had done to discipline her, and she'd usually listen. She obeyed me pretty well, because we had that bond, but also because D.J. was boss. I supported her just like Danny did, saying she was right to put her in timeout. That would be crucial for all of us, as we'd learn later.
If Michelle didn't listen, like when I thought she'd hidden my keys,[2] I turned to D.J.. That time, of course, D.J. didn't threaten timeout. She wasn't that sure Michelle had done it, given the lack of a guilty look, and she hadn't. By then, D.J. had learned when to punish and when to just talk, though it was rough on her to react so much.
Joey - Why Joey never punished Michelle, either:
I wasn't as worried as Jesse about becoming my dad. Okay, I might have been a touch, given how strict he could be,[3] but I knew setting limits wasn't the same as making someone stand at attention and sounding mean. Still, I was more interested in being accepted, so I could have that childhood I felt I'd missed.
If I'd put my foot down more and not played so much, like saying we could play hockey in the house, Michelle never would have expected me to play a game to find a ring she hid.[4] None of us adults could give the consistent discipline Michelle needed. I was good at distracting her. But, I wasn't ready to enforce limits myself.
Michelle would never have learned to behave at all without someone doing what Danny should have. However, he was barely willing to let D.J. do it, and that only because the doctor warned him it needed done. We wouldn't do it, and she eventually learned she didn't have to obey us much. Thankfully, her sisters were there.
[1] Since he couldn't put his own kids in timeout in "Tough Love" till pushed, it would be impossible for him to have punished Michelle, as he'd be used to it by "Tough Love."
[2] "Lust In the Dust"
[3] "Viva Las Joey" - Joey's reaction standing so straight upon hearing his dad is not normal for a parent-child relationship, but he lightens up fast enough it probably wasn't a huge problem.
[4] "Ol' Brown Eyes" - his saying they could play hockey in the house ("A Pinch for a Pinch") is another indication he could never have punished Michelle. The only possible candidate for disciplining Michelle besides D.J. is Stephanie, and most feel she wouldn't know how to nearly as effectively.------------------------------------------------------------------
There are other signs Jesse never put her in timeout, too, like in the episode with her first punishment, and in "The Long Goodbye," where he talks tough and that's it.
So, clearly, something needed done. Fans saw that, like many on here did. They reasoned that D.J. would have known Pam the longest. To show a spirit of working together, and accept hat she wouldn't know everything, not only her guidance counselor and the doctor, but Becky gets mention as people who advise D.J..
Thanks to the one who inspired me to put Dr. Landress as a contributor, by the way.
I think some of the complainants, too, miss a very important point that they may not want to see if they're girls or women with a crush on Jesse. Jesse's influence was the main reason why Michelle isn't a lot better behaved. His attitude - "rules are meant to be broken" - is so prevalent in Michelle sometimes, that there's another reason why it was decided not to go with the notion that this 1/4 of 1% was not a true indication of Michelle's behavior. Again, if you want to say this wasn't a true indication, that's fine, but it seemed to most fans that Jesse's influence was huge; huge enough that Michelle needed D.J. to intervene quite a bit.
Anyway, thanks to all for reading and contributing, and God Bless. Happy reading.