Why was it that Diane Ladd left the show in the middle of the season? Most actors finish out the season and leave at the end if they or the show doesn't renew their contract. It seemed so abrupt at the time how Belle called and quit and then Jolene came on the scene and was hired.

Did Diane leave beause of Linda Lavin? I never understood why her time on the show was so brief. I know Linda Lavin had good things to say about Celia Weston (Jolene) in an interview. I assume Linda got along fine with Celia because she wasn't as well known as an actress and didn't try to steal Linda's spotlight as being the star of the show.

From what I understand, it was a similar situation to what happened with Polly Holliday: Clashing egos.

Ironically, Diane Ladd played Flo in the movie the show was based on, Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore. It must have been weird for Diane Ladd to have originated a character and later play the character replacing the character she originally played.

Go figure.

I've heard that Linda Lavin had similar problems with Diane Ladd that she had with Polly Holliday. A shame, really. Still, in less than a full season, Diane Ladd won the Golden Globe for the role of Belle.

Actually Diane did a full season--if you figured how she came on when Flo was spunoff as a mid season replacement, then near the end of the next season, left and was replaced by Jolene for the last six or so episodes.

OK...it's been YEARS since I've seen the Diane Ladd episodes.

^I would say the same, except for the brief time ION was insane and actually aired OLD shows :lol:

^I would say the same, except for the brief time ION was insane and actually aired OLD shows :lol:
Yeah, I was working nights when ION aired Alice and missed the Diane Ladd era. :(

According to Ellen Burstyn's autobiography, she was cut out of the whole sitcom project altogether. The only actors who made the transition from the film to the show were Vic Tayback and Alfred Luter -- who was let go after the pilot and replaced with Philip McKeon.

As for Diane Ladd, like Elley Burstyn, she wasn't even contacted about the sitcom when it was in pre-production. I'd love to know the story behind how she got the role of Belle. Did the writers create the role just for her or was the part already in existance she came along after the fact?

I remember watching the E True Hollywood Story episode about ALICE and Diane said that she was brought in around the time that Polly Holliday was completing her last couple of shows and they happened to pass each other one day. Polly made a comment something along the lines of the egos on the set being a challenge to deal with on a daily basis. Diane was only on the show for a short time when she came to realize exactly what Polly had meant.

I do know that Diane would only take the role if they agreed to sign her to just one season (mid-1980 to mid-1981). Typically, she would have been bound by a 5-year contract. She made it clear that she was not happy with her time on the show, either.

As I recall, the Belle character was solely a creation of the show, ironically to fill the void by Flo's (Polly Holliday) departure. So Diane, who played Flo in the movie (if I'm remembering correctly) replaced the character she created in the movie.

I can't imagine that Ellen Burstyn would have wanted to do the show, as she had a movie career at the time the show premiered. It was not considered a good career move back then to go into a sitcom if you had a hot career making features.

Diane Ladd was smart to only sign up for one year, because she probably would have ended up in an unhappy situation where her and Linda Lavin came to blows.

It's too bad that the egos destroyed that show. Diane Ladd was okay and Celia Weston did a good job filling in the third lead spot once Diane left, but the show was never the same once Polly Holliday left.

Whatever personal issues the actresses had, there was a great creative chemisty between the original cast members onscreen. They should have appreciated their success and gone the distance together, but alas, it was not meant to be.

Does anyone know how well Vic Tayback got along with the actresses? I've read that he was very close to Philip McKeon (his own son was about Philip's age and he would take both boys to ballgames and such) but I don't know how well he got along with everyone else. To me, he seemed like such a teddy bear - both on-screen and off.

Does anyone know how well Vic Tayback got along with the actresses? I've read that he was very close to Philip McKeon (his own son was about Philip's age and he would take both boys to ballgames and such) but I don't know how well he got along with everyone else. To me, he seemed like such a teddy bear - both on-screen and off.

I never heard anything about any animosity towards Tayback -- he seemed to be well-regarded by the actresses as far as I know. From what I gather, I think he stayed out of the catfights (sorry!) and ego battles and just appreciated the fact he had a regular gig on a hit prime time show.

Too bad Linda Lavin and Polly Holliday didn't feel the same way.

I never heard anything about any animosity towards Tayback -- he seemed to be well-regarded by the actresses as far as I know. From what I gather, I think he stayed out of the catfights (sorry!) and ego battles and just appreciated the fact he had a regular gig on a hit prime time show.

Too bad Linda Lavin and Polly Holliday didn't feel the same way.
Yeah, that's the impression I got. He just seemed to be an all-around good guy.

Vic must have got along well with Polly Holliday- he was the only one who made a guest appearance on her spinoff series "Flo".

Vic must have got along well with Polly Holliday- he was the only one who made a guest appearance on her spinoff series "Flo".
He did? I never knew that. Cool. :cool:

He did? I never knew that. Cool. :cool:

Me either and I use to watch Flo and don't remember him being a guest.:lol:

Me either and I use to watch Flo and don't remember him being a guest.:lol:
:lol:

Yeah, I think the episode was "What are Friends For?" I got it in a trade years ago on vhs. Mel comes through Cowtown on his way from Mardis Gras and tries to practically take over Flo's bar. Not a bad episode- it was nice to see them together again.

Yeah, I think the episode was "What are Friends For?" I got it in a trade years ago on vhs. Mel comes through Cowtown on his way from Mardis Gras and tries to practically take over Flo's bar. Not a bad episode- it was nice to see them together again.
I can TOTALLY see Mel at a Mardi Gras. :rofl:

I can TOTALLY see Mel at a Mardi Gras. :rofl:

:lol: You should've seen the shirt he had on. Too funny. The whole episode he kept trying to get her to say "Kiss My Grits" and she was trying so hard not to. By the end of the episode she lost it & couldn't take it anymore.

:lol: You should've seen the shirt he had on. Too funny. The whole episode he kept trying to get her to say "Kiss My Grits" and she was trying so hard not to. By the end of the episode she lost it & couldn't take it anymore.
That whole episode sounds great. Did he also tell her to stow it?? :lol: My favorite actor/character on Alice was, is and always will be Vic/Mel. God bless him - what a terrific guy. :D

Phillip McKeon also said that Vic was like a big teddy bear back in 1995 interview with "E" for sitcoms stars: where are they now segment hosted by MacKenzie Phillips.

:lol: You should've seen the shirt he had on. Too funny. The whole episode he kept trying to get her to say "Kiss My Grits" and she was trying so hard not to. By the end of the episode she lost it & couldn't take it anymore.


I haven't scene Alice in years, and remember very little of Flo, but I do remember Flo's last episode on Alice, her screaming " MEL!" then softly, kind of emotionally, "kiss my grits". I don't recall her parting moments with Alice and Vera.

By the way. I liked the character of Belle. I think she filled the void left by Flo well. (Notice I didn't say replacement, Nobody can replace Flo!) I liked Belle better than Jolene.

Phillip McKeon also said that Vic was like a big teddy bear back in 1995 interview with "E" for sitcoms stars: where are they now segment hosted by MacKenzie Phillips.
Yes, I remember that. Philip has said in countless interviews over the years how close he was to Vic and how hard he took Vic's death (I'm pretty sure they stayed in touch after Alice went off the air).

I haven't scene Alice in years, and remember very little of Flo, but I do remember Flo's last episode on Alice, her screaming " MEL!" then softly, kind of emotionally, "kiss my grits". I don't recall her parting moments with Alice and Vera.

By the way. I liked the character of Belle. I think she filled the void left by Flo well. (Notice I didn't say replacement, Nobody can replace Flo!) I liked Belle better than Jolene.

Yeah, Bell wasn't no Flo, but she did fill that void pretty well. Belle's character wasn't utilized very well. I also liked Belle better than Jolene. Jolene to me was trying too hard.

That whole episode sounds great. Did he also tell her to stow it?? :lol: My favorite actor/character on Alice was, is and always will be Vic/Mel. God bless him - what a terrific guy. :D

I think I once saw an interview with Vic, where he said that prior to Alice, he was always doing one shot roles, always a guest star and that he was really happy to finally have a regular job.

It seemed like he enjoyed his success after years of struggle and he played a memorable character as well. I always loved Mel.

I think I once saw an interview with Vic, where he said that prior to Alice, he was always doing one shot roles, always a guest star and that he was really happy to finally have a regular job.

It seemed like he enjoyed his success after years of struggle and he played a memorable character as well. I always loved Mel.
Me, too. Vic also won a couple of Golden Globes and was nominated for a couple of Emmys as well. He was in a couple of Bewitched episodes, as well as an episode of Barney Miller. Vic WAS Mel - and one of the great underrated TV stars of the 70s/80s. May he :rip:.

Me, too. Vic also won a couple of Golden Globes and was nominated for a couple of Emmys as well. He was in a couple of Bewitched episodes, as well as an episode of Barney Miller. Vic WAS Mel - and one of the great underrated TV stars of the 70s/80s. May he :rip:.

He was also on Mary Tyler Moore. Wasn't he one of the firemen when Rhoda's apartment burned? I'm not sure but I think he was on there.

He was also on Mary Tyler Moore. Wasn't he one of the firemen when Rhoda's apartment burned? I'm not sure but I think he was on there.
Yes, you're right! I'd forgotten about that one. He also played a cop on an early episode of Family.

I think Vic also did an episode of the original Star Trek, too.

I think Vic also did an episode of the original Star Trek, too.
He sure did!! :cool:

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Vic_Tayback

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this already, but he guest starred on an episode of All In The Family in 1974 ("Et Tu, Archie?') as Archie's out of work friend Joe Tucker.;)

He sure did!! :cool:

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Vic_Tayback

Monika, you are a wonder!;)

Monika, you are a wonder!;)
I already knew that - but hey, glad to help. :D

I already knew that - but hey, glad to help. :D

Ahh modesty, thy name be Monika!!;)

What I think is kind of funny is that the year you were born (1979, right?) was the year I was probably at my TV-watching peak. But for someone who pretty much missed the seventies, you certainly identify or like many of those shows!

I mean, I remember when stuff like Happy Days or Barney Miller was new (yeah, I'm a little bit older than ya). If you were born in '79 (I'm guessing that from your username), then you had to get all this stuff via syndicated reruns.

Nothing wrong with that, because you do have impeccable taste in classic TV shows...like me!:D ;)

Ahh modesty, thy name be Monika!!;)

What I think is kind of funny is that the year you were born (1979, right?) was the year I was probably at my TV-watching peak. But for someone who pretty much missed the seventies, you certainly identify or like many of those shows!

I mean, I remember when stuff like Happy Days or Barney Miller was new (yeah, I'm a little bit older than ya). If you were born in '79 (I'm guessing that from your username), then you had to get all this stuff via syndicated reruns.

Nothing wrong with that, because you do have impeccable taste in classic TV shows...like me!:D ;)
Oh, yes, I grew up watching syndicated reruns of Leave it to Beaver (and the New Leave it to Beaver), Alice, Lucy, The Brady Bunch, Mary Tyler Moore, Happy Days, Andy Griffith, Charlie's Angels, Dukes of Hazzard, The Jeffersons, Good Times, etc., etc., etc. Those and of course Bewitched and Barney Miller. That was back in the 80s (yes, I was born in 1979). Then I began to watch those and many other shows on DVD in later years. I'd much rather watch those than the crap polluting the airwaves today. Thank you for your nice words.

He was also on Mary Tyler Moore. Wasn't he one of the firemen when Rhoda's apartment burned? I'm not sure but I think he was on there.
Hi,Vic was a policeman in a season one episode of MTM when poor old Mary is burguled twice.

Hi,Vic was a policeman in a season one episode of MTM when poor old Mary is burguled twice.
You're right. I remember now. :D

Hi,Vic was a policeman in a season one episode of MTM when poor old Mary is burguled twice.


Thats right! I had that episode confused with the episode of the Fire. Vic played a cop, not a fireman.

Thats right! I had that episode confused with the episode of the Fire. Vic played a cop, not a fireman.
That was a pretty good episode, and Vic did a great job. :cool:

I heard Linda was difficult to get along with..she wanted to be the star of the show. When Polly won an Emmy for playing Flo...rumors are Linda hit the roof and last straw and she wanted Polly out. I think the same thing happened with Diane. Once she won her golden globe ....she was gone. It would have been great had Beth Howland....had won the award the last season of Alice...wonder if she would have been fired too...lol.

Btw...where is Season 1 of Alice???

I heard Linda was difficult to get along with..she wanted to be the star of the show. When Polly won an Emmy for playing Flo...rumors are Linda hit the roof and last straw and she wanted Polly out. I think the same thing happened with Diane. Once she won her golden globe ....she was gone. It would have been great had Beth Howland....had won the award the last season of Alice...wonder if she would have been fired too...lol.


:rofl: That's funny. No doubt.

:rofl: That's funny. No doubt.
OUCH. :eek: :lol:

How are you Ms. Monika? I still like Alice and the show would not have been the same had Linda Lavin left. It was her show. She should not have felt threatened. Characters like Flo and Belle were just icing on the cake for the show. They were all good.

How are you Ms. Monika? I still like Alice and the show would not have been the same had Linda Lavin left. It was her show. She should not have felt threatened. Characters like Flo and Belle were just icing on the cake for the show. They were all good.
I'm just fine, Mr. Thomas, and you? I think Alice really was more of an ensemble comedy. As I've before, my favorite on the show is and always will be Mel. God bless Vic Tayback - he just ruled. :cool:

I liked Belle better than Jolene.
Me too.

Linda Lavin had a tremendous ego, I can tell you that. Lavin was friends only with Beth Howland (who played Vera). I don't think she was chummy with too many other people.

It seems to me that Lavin felt threatened by anyone who asserted themselves (Holliday and Ladd) and was threatened by the popularity of the Flo character. Too bad.

Linda Lavin had a tremendous ego, I can tell you that. Lavin was friends only with Beth Howland (who played Vera). I don't think she was chummy with too many other people.

I agree and that's a shame. Linda Lavin was a talented performer and her ego is probably the reason that she hasn't been offered any substantial roles in television since Alice left the air.

Maybe she didn't need the money, but she certainly could have used the work.

If you would had saw the final season with Polly Holliday you can tell the tension between those two on screen. There were times Linda would roll her eyes to the back of her head when Polly would get a laugh. Flo was the breakout character of the show and that what made the show. Linda Lavin would not had done well with Norman Lear nor MTM shows because they were all ensemble shows except for Maude.

I agree and that's a shame. Linda Lavin was a talented performer and her ego is probably the reason that she hasn't been offered any substantial roles in television since Alice left the air.

Maybe she didn't need the money, but she certainly could have used the work.
That's what I was just wondering about. Lavin certainly hasn't had much exposure since Alice ended. Over the years I think I've seen both Holiday and Ladd turn up in movies or guest roles on sitcoms, or doing theatre much more than Lavin.

Here's an interview with Diane Ladd from January 2010, where among other things she speaks of her Alice experience. Scroll down the page - she's interview #92.

http://onscreenandbeyond.com/OSBseason3Reruns.htm

https://youtu.be/G2UHdTFpEUo?si=XuVJl2m9-Lv1cKEC&t=320

https://youtu.be/G2UHdTFpEUo?si=XuVJl2m9-Lv1cKEC&t=320
Thanks for posting. Polly and Diane were both really good. Its a shame Linda's jealousy almost ruined the show.

https://youtu.be/lirMjd3H-RY?si=u04QVRR7C-PyMeyH&t=1585

https://youtu.be/lirMjd3H-RY?si=u04QVRR7C-PyMeyH&t=1585
That is the best interview so far explaining the tension on the set. I understand what she was explaining. The tension was so bad that the director would direct them in separate areas. When she said she could not sit at the same table with all the actors I agree its time to go. She also sort of infers that Polly was set up with a weak pilot just to get rid of her. Very sad because Alice was a great show. But it could of been better if Linda was not so jealous and competitive.

God Bless Diane for her honesty because no one on that show ever touched that subject even years later. and of course Linda never talked about it.

God Bless Diane for her honesty because no one on that show ever touched that subject even years later. and of course Linda never talked about it.
I was only 10 when Flo left and was looking forward to her own show. I remember my parents explaining to me how Linda did not get along with Polly. With no internet in 1980 and parents explaining this to their child, this drama must of found a way to make it to the press. But I do agree that it was kept secret compared to today when actors leak or run to the press over any small thing. Look at the Golden Girls, it just came out recently that the reason Bea left was she refused to sign another contract with Betty White. It was not a secret that Linda was difficult to work with. They lied to Diane about that issue but it blew up in her face. Talk about a class act. Diane could have destroyed Linda in the press and hurt the show. Instead she just quietly left.