I finally started reading "Love Is All Around: The Making of the Mary Tyler Moore Show" by Robert S. Alley and Irby B. Brown, and in one of the early chapters they say that in the very first draft of TMTMS, Phyllis Lindstrom was going to be "Marna" Lindstrom and Murray Slaughter was going to be "Richard" Slaughter!!!!

OMG, how different would that have been!? I mean, I still would have watched and loved the show, but that seems freaky to me. I'm definitely glad that by the pilot they went to "Phyllis" and "Murray"; those are perfect names for those characters.

When you read that, and then you recall that Gavin MacLeod originally read for the Lou Grant character, that they almost couldn't find Valerie Harper to let her try for the Rhoda part, that CBS originally was trying to sink the show, and that the studio audience didn't respond to the pilot (for a lot of reasons out of the production's control), it just shows how big a role good fortune, or luck, or whatever you want to call it, plays in these things.

Thankfully it all worked out, the right decisions were made and the roadblocks were overcome, and with the great efforts of the incredible cast, writers, directors, producers, and everybody else behind the scenes the show got rolling and what we ended up with was transcendent.

But "Marna" Lindstrom and "Richard" Slaughter! I can hardly even picture that!

If I read any more interesting tidbits, I'll forward them.

This book is providing a lot of little nuggets I never knew.
It says that in addition to being called "Richard", Murray originally was going to be gay, and that one of the people considered to play him was Charles Nelson Reilly!
It also says that a well-known comedian of the time was up for the role of Lou, but several people said that this unnamed person wouldn't be good for the morale of the show, that he would undermine all the chemistry of the cast. I'm of course curious who it was, but probably will never find out.

While I'm sure the writers would have done an interesting job with a gay character, TMTMS wouldn't be TMTMS without Murray. And the same with Lou; nobody else could have even come close to what Ed Asner did with that character. So while it's fun to consider what might have been, again, thank goodness it all turned out the way it did!

Yeah, I can't imagine a gay Murray at all. I'm sure they would've handled it well, but I don't really think it would've worked. (Of course, if it had gone that way, we might all be saying we can't imagine a straight Murray! LOL) We wouldn't have had eps. like "Murray in Love," or "The Slaughter Affair," which would've changed the direction of the series.

I agree about Lou as well. I can't imagine anybody but Ed in the famous "job interview" scene. He and Mary had such awesome chemistry. I think if it had been someone else in the role, it really would've changed their relationship.

- Kristen

Wait a minute! With a "gay" Murray, they could have kept the title "Murray In Love", but the capsule in "Love Is All Around" might have read like this instead:

From the moment that Murray knocks at Lou's door with a gift, a goldfish, we know there's a problem. It turns out Murray is in love with Lou and he wants to know how he feels. Mary tells him not to ask, but Murray observes, "Just suppose he feels the same way and I never asked." The moment of encounter is adroitly directed and nicely played by both actors.

Ha ha...too funny!

Mary was originally supposed to be divorced, but CBS decided America would perceive it as divorced from Dick Van Dyke! ...and Gavin MacLoed was also up for the role of Lou Grant, but requested to read for Murray

Mary was originally supposed to be divorced, but CBS decided America would perceive it as divorced from Dick Van Dyke! ...and Gavin MacLoed was also up for the role of Lou Grant, but requested to read for Murray
Good choice. I can't see anyone else but Ed Asner and Gavin MacLeod in the roles of Lou and Murray. I can't picture Charles Nelson Reilly on TMTMS at all!! :eek: :lol: