Hi everybody! Two nights ago I just happened to go to MPI Home Video's website, to see if there were any updates (anything new at all) with The Lost Episodes of The Honeymooners. Well, to my surprise, I couldn't find The Lost Episodes in their collection at all! ALL of their other DVD sets of The Honeymooners (The Color Episodes, The Honeymooners Holiday Classics, and The Very Best of The Honeymooners) were on there still, but NOT The Lost Episodes. I immediately went to their contact form and submitted a question asking WHY I couldn't find anything to do with The Lost Episodes of The Honeymooners on their website. The following day, I received a reply from Julie in their office stating exactly (I'll just copy and paste for you):

Dear Ralph,

We don’t carry those box sets any longer.


MPI Customer Service


What a shocker this was! MPI has been handling these episodes for Gleason Enterprises for like twenty years or so (first on VHS, of course), and to read this? When I received this reply from MPI, I immediately went to the message board here, and contacted Bill S, because he's our number one guy who's up to date with anything going on with MPI and The Lost Episodes. He was just as shocked to find this out as I was! Bill and I then came to the conclusion that this must be a final decision by Gleason Enterprises, and HOPEFULLY, they're getting another company to take this project over to remake this collection. I'm sure that this decision and any future plans about The Lost Episodes is in secrecy for now with Gleason Enterprises and MPI, but if anyone knows anything, please inform us. Thank you.

It is very possible, and the reason I say this is the decision of CBS of released the Beverly Hillbillies on DVD. While the MPI sets of seasons 1 and 2 of BH were all the public domain episodes, I believe 16mm prints were the source for their release and therefore the quality suffered. CBS just released the entire season 2 - including the shows that were previously released and the ones that are new to DVD because they are copyrighted - using newly remastered 35mm prints.

While I know the lost episodes are not in the public domain, it is very possible that the Gleason Estate is shopping around for a new vendor. I hope that the sets have not just been pulled and now nothing will happen with the series for years. The original price tags on the lost episode sets - and even with the color shows - were very high indeed. Along with the shobby treatment the series received with the DVD releases, that is why I opted to keep my VHS and transfer them to DVD myself. I have 2 of the 4 color sets, I'm hoping to pick up #3 and 4 for Christmas gifts (hint hint to my wife!) because, unless I find a sale, $39.99 for each is a bit high for me right now. Though the 4th set would be the ideal choice since it does have a bonus skit, and one that has not be released before.

Also, is Paul Brownstein still involved with the Gleason Estate? Perhaps this is why the lost episodes were pulled, while MPI is still handling the color show. Just a guest from this end.

Hey Benno!... great to see you Pal O' Mine... yeah, I hope that something is done in the near future also, and these episodes are not just left untouched for a long time... but I have a pretty good feeling that something is in the works since Jackie Gleason Enterprises has shown signs of activity and concern to get Jackie's work back in the public eye by launching their new website this year on his Birthday... I think that's ONE good sign... let's keep our fingers crossed on an new and improved set of The Lost Episodes not too far off into the future!

Do you know, or does Bill S. or anyone else know, who owns the rights to the lost episodes? I know Viacom/CBS owns the Classic 39, but beyond the syndication rights did Gleason sell the rights to the lost episodes, or did his estate retain those? That really is one area where I was never sure about. My thinking is if CBS owned the rights to the sketches, maybe they had MPI pull them and they will be rereleasing the shows on DVD, in broadcast order with the "found" shows missing from the initial releases. I know, just wishful thinking, but the wheels are turning in my mind!!!!

Do you know, or does Bill S. or anyone else know, who owns the rights to the lost episodes? I know Viacom/CBS owns the Classic 39, but beyond the syndication rights did Gleason sell the rights to the lost episodes, or did his estate retain those?

Hi Benno!... well, I'll type a sentence right out of the McCrohan - Crescenti The Honeymooners Lost Episodes book regarding Jackie owning the rights:

"Gleason owned the segments as well as the rights, having never sold CBS more than one-time live-broadcast use."

Viacom, like you said, held the syndication rights to the Classic 39, but they also struck a deal with Gleason for The Lost Episodes (syndication wise) back in the mid 80's when they were first released to the public eye (on Television) on Showtime. The first peek to the public eye were four episodes released from CBS's vault, and displayed at Museum of Broadcasting in NY in August, 1984. The thing that people didn't know was that, according to Jackie's contract with CBS (with his variety show), he was to be given a copy of each of the kinescopes from those shows. And the ones originally aired on TV, and produced on video from MPI were from Gleason's own personal collection that he kept in that air-conditioned vault in his Florida home for years. It's almost like he KNEW that day would come in the future. I guess just another reason to call him The Great One. Before they were first aired on Showtime, he told the press conference in 1986 that he knew that he always had them preserved and waiting, but didn't think about releasing them until he was going to get a phone call one day. He said that he got that phone call (from Viacom), and that's the reason they were all there (at the conference) that day.

Jackie's family (Gleason Enterprises) has owned the rights since, so I'm sure that they are just coming up with a new plan to re-release them to the public in a different way. I guess the only thing we can do is try to ask questions to the family (if that's possible) to find out, or just wait and see. Hopefully it won't be too long of a wait.

Hi Benno!... well, I'll type a sentence right out of the McCrohan - Crescenti The Honeymooners Lost Episodes book regarding Jackie owning the rights:

"Gleason owned the segments as well as the rights, having never sold CBS more than one-time live-broadcast use."

Viacom, like you said, held the syndication rights to the Classic 39, but they also struck a deal with Gleason for The Lost Episodes (syndication wise) back in the mid 80's when they were first released to the public eye (on Television) on Showtime. The first peek to the public eye were four episodes released from CBS's vault, and displayed at Museum of Broadcasting in NY in August, 1984. The thing that people didn't know was that, according to Jackie's contract with CBS (with his variety show), he was to be given a copy of each of the kinescopes from those shows. And the ones originally aired on TV, and produced on video from MPI were from Gleason's own personal collection that he kept in that air-conditioned vault in his Florida home for years. It's almost like he KNEW that day would come in the future. I guess just another reason to call him The Great One. Before they were first aired on Showtime, he told the press conference in 1986 that he knew that he always had them preserved and waiting, but didn't think about releasing them until he was going to get a phone call one day. He said that he got that phone call (from Viacom), and that's the reason they were all there (at the conference) that day.

Jackie's family (Gleason Enterprises) has owned the rights since, so I'm sure that they are just coming up with a new plan to re-release them to the public in a different way. I guess the only thing we can do is try to ask questions to the family (if that's possible) to find out, or just wait and see. Hopefully it won't be too long of a wait.

Note also that the copyright credit on the Lost Episodes is c. 1984 Jackie Gleason, so the shows belong to the estate. MPI's home video rights go back to the mid80s, so maybe it's time to let another company have a crack at them. I have the DVDs, but I was never pleased that they weren't in chronological order. I ended up taking a list of the sketches and writing the disc set and number next to the episode title just to locate a sketch with greater ease. LOL!

Now that you mention it, I remember the copyright saying Jackie Gleason. I just see it so often that I don't think about it anymore!!!

Earlier today, I just thought I would try and press the issue with MPI by sending Julie at their office another email to see what they would say about WHY, if anything. It was worth a shot, just so I could relay any information to the fans here. To my surprise she did reply to me with an answer, but I don't know if it's any help. By the looks what she said, it seems that there is a possibility that MPI is still going to do them in the future, but make what you can of it. I'll paste her reply below:



Ralph,

At this time we don’t have any answer for the future but we can possibly find out more for you but not until next year some time.

Sorry we don’t have any information now.

Julie

MPI Customer Service

Maybe they decided to discontinue the sets to make room for the new ones they've supposedly been working on. Just a guess, based on Julie's response, but to be honest, I'm hoping Gleason Enterprises is shopping around for another company to release them, especially since MPI just finished putting out yet another incomplete set (The Color Honeymooners). There has been a rumor going around that The Jackie Gleason Show is next, but there has been no official word on that, although MPI did apparently list it as "Coming Soon" in a brochure that came with one of the Color Honeymooners sets (they've since claimed that is not happening).

Many times on the boards I have expressed my opinion of the fine job MPI does with many of its "cult" releases. I don't have a real opinion regarding the "lost episodes" mainly because yes those releases are very outdated and taken from the VHS series, so yes they need to come out properly....but as for the job MPI did with "the color honeymooners", it was wonderful! yes we missed one episode, but "life upon" is easily found on American Life cable and your home made dvd can fit perfectly in the case where it should come in air order. But over all, they did an incredible job in releasing a series that has serious limited appeal to the masses. They were unedited and 4 volumes were put out in less than 3 years! As for "The Jackie Gleason Show" booklet mention, that was before "The Color Honeymooners" was released....the two are often confused but as we all know the colors are actually titled "The Jackie Gleason Show". I don't believe MPI ever had plans on releasing Joe The Bartender, etc.

Those seven short sketches and "Incredible World of Ed Norton" are next to IMPOSSIBLE to find. I tried searching sveral times on the internet looking for tape traders who have them (shot in the dark, I know). The only people that I know who have them are either Marilyn Gleason or Jackie's adult children. Hopefully, they will shop for another company to distribute the material.

Maybe they decided to discontinue the sets to make room for the new ones they've supposedly been working on. Just a guess, based on Julie's response, but to be honest, I'm hoping Gleason Enterprises is shopping around for another company to release them, especially since MPI just finished putting out yet another incomplete set (The Color Honeymooners). There has been a rumor going around that The Jackie Gleason Show is next, but there has been no official word on that, although MPI did apparently list it as "Coming Soon" in a brochure that came with one of the Color Honeymooners sets (they've since claimed that is not happening).

Sounds like a good deduction Bill, and I'm hoping that Jackie Gleason Enterprises is shopping for another company as well... that way, we have a chance to get a more complete set of The Lost Episodes...

but just a thought about something... I was reading in one of my Lost Episodes books that in Gleason's personal copies of the kinescopes (which he was go get according to his contract with CBS at the time), there were seventy some-odd of his old Jackie Gleason shows, which included these Lost Episode segments, of course... but CBS also still had their own copies... maybe MPI never had a complete set because they had to work with the copies that only Gleason had (Gleason Enterprises), and never had legal access to the copies that CBS still owned... even though these other copies have been seen before by the public (the ones that aren't considered as totally "lost" and aren't in the MPI collection), maybe those were only available from CBS's copies, and not Gleason's... even though Gleason technically still owned the rights to ALL of those episodes, that doesn't mean that CBS still had to give him copies of ones that they had, but he didn't have anymore in his own personal collection, for whatever reason... does this make sense, or not Bill?... if you have any insight to this, please tell us... thanks!

Along with the shobby treatment the series received with the DVD releases, that is why I opted to keep my VHS and transfer them to DVD myself. I have 2 of the 4 color sets, I'm hoping to pick up #3 and 4 for Christmas gifts (hint hint to my wife!) because, unless I find a sale, $39.99 for each is a bit high for me right now.

Check Amazon for #3 and 4. Unless it matters to you (it didn't to me) you can pick them up used for under $20. Actually you can get #4 new for $19.99 so your price may be right. The prices seem to have gone down pretty fast. They'll probably release a mega-set which includes all of the missing episodes. :) Hope that helps you out.

You may actually be onto something here. I just checked Donna McCrohan & Peter Crescenti's Lost Episodes book, and according to Page 14, Frank Satenstein announced at the first R.A.L.P.H. convention that there were "kinescopes galore" in the CBS vaults. Four of those were screened at the Museum of Broadcasting in New York. I'm assuming one of them was the remake of "Stand In For Murder," which, according to VIDEOWACK, was shown at the first R.A.L.P.H. convention. I don't know how I could have overlooked this information, but it still remains a mystery to me why it was even an issue if any of Gleason's personal copies were damaged if CBS had their own. I do believe there were more than seventy-something shows in Gleason's vault though...

For there to have been only seventy-something in there, that must have included the 78 sketches that MPI released on VHS, with the possibility of only one more. But, in the Lost Episodes book, it says that half of "The Fortune Teller" and one reel of the 1952 version of "Christmas Party" are available and that "MPI may release" them. What that tells me is that MPI must have had the rights to those two as well, so that makes 80. Then there's the issue of "Halloween Party For The Boss" (1954), which MPI attempted to release more than once, that makes 81. Something doesn't add up here. In that same book, without naming any specific episode, it says that some of the material brought forth from Gleason's vault had "deteriorated too badly to be salvaged." Is it me or did that number just jump from seventy-something to eighty-something? Based on this information, I'd say MPI had well over seventy-something shows to work with from Gleason's vault alone. Why some of this material was never made available to the public, we may never know.

Yeah, we're definitely onto something with this information, and like you said, something doesn't seem right with the numbers of Jackie's own personal copies of the kinescopes, when it was reported in the Lost Episodes book that he had "seventy-odd" number of these in his possession.

I believe that the bottom line is in order for all of Gleason's work to be distributed to the public in a complete and proper fashion, there finally has to be some legal agreement between Gleason Enterprises and CBS in order to WORK TOGETHER. Within this agreement, they would BOTH benefit from the profits. I think that Jackie's fans deserve this, and they just have to look at it as a benefit to the PUBLIC, even if they lose a little in the beginning of the process. If they ever came up with this type of legal working agreement, there could definitely be produced "The Ultimate Jackie Gleason Collection" where, for the first time, ALL of Jackie's work could be made available in one large DVD set. In addition, for those fans out there that can't afford to purchase the entire set, individual volumes could be bought, but the best deal would be the entire collection all in one.

I guess this is wishful thinking, but maybe if fans could all come together and get a petition signed in large numbers, they would consider working together and give the fans what they not only are asking for, but deserve. Since they would finally give the fans what they have long awaited for, in the long run, they both would make more money than they ever did distributing Jackie's work with such a deal.