DTF955
06-25-2008, 06:30 AM
I posted this separate because it's pretty long. I had something like it on the fanfiction.net "Full House" forum, but not all (and maybe not many) viewers go there, as the spectre of writing/reading can be different, though of course there are plenty of readers who also watch TV.
Anyway, while many may have different viewing habits for TV than most (certainly than me :-) I had a few observations based on some of the things I saw, polling for the Chronology and in talking with fans, regarding how fans view Michelle. they might not be yours, but they can at least provide food for thought, since I came to post the one poll about it.
I think feelings about Michelle for original viewers (i.e.: 1987-95) went through stages. Not everyone felt all these stages, but they were: 1. Seeing how cute she was & not looking at the behavior/attitude at first; 2. Olsen overload, just tired of her, some confusing a character in a real fictional universe with real life actresses at times; 3. Balanced, but upset that she didn't get discilpined hardly at all; and now, 4. balanced, and more accepting, but just hoping that someone punished her where we don't see.
I've always been at #4, except a little #1 at first, since I started watching a lot in 2001 or so, and never saw it in original airing. Some (maybe more here?) are still at #3, maybe a small number at #1.
I ran a poll on some yahoo groups, and of those fans who had thought D.J. would have had to fwap Michelle, whether at #3 originally or whatever, they voted one of a couple things. First, once I'd showed how much D.J. would have had to do to bond with Michelle psychologically, if it were a real life situation, they felt D.J. could get Michelle to behave by just talking to her about the possibility of it. And, second, voters who thought that she did pretty much flocked to my idea of the "Tale of Two Princesses" that D.J. tells Michelle so she realizes it's possible for D.J. to do it before D.J. has to outright threaten it. (Like after the samples. She had to be pretty far out of control for anyone but D.J. - and that's after Danny had started to punish.)
I think Michelle's behavior led in the past to her being by far a least favorite. But, I think that's mellowed somewhat, as most fans consider just how much pediatricians talk about, or decide that there's got to be something to that 99%+ of the time we don't see. (Called an ellipsis in literature, the habit of writers not teling every detail. For instance, people do go to the bathroom but it's almost never mentioned, and certainly not described in detail :-) I think Michelle can be at least average to closer to a favorite to a good number of people.
And, of course, as some have said, we don't know for sure what went on that 99% of the time, so maybe we shouldn't guess. But, we know something did in the part outside the 30 minutes per week we see. (Out of 168 hours.) It's possible Michelle was just so incredibly well behaved that she only needed told not to do something, and almost never tested limits. Let's just say that's not what a lot of people saw. :-) But, hey, elipsis, in literature, is very common. And, we don't know for sure. My opinion is just that based on my own experience, and that is that older sisters (yes, I'll grant it could have been Stephanie) will step in and discipline at times like what we see, which is a parent who rarely enforces limits.
I've enjoyed doing Stephanie fanfics, but I also really have found myself enjoying writing Danny , becasue I think there's some interesting psychological stuff that comes out of how he ignored Michelle's misbehavior, how he cleaned so much, etc., and I can kind of understand; I think I'd likely react the same way in similar circumstances (wife's tragic death) at first, though I'd recover very fast, especially compared to him. The book Universe is probably about right for me, where he doesn't obsess, but still D.J. develops as a much more proactive mother figure.
I've found D.J. to also be fun to write, because while Hollywood overdoes lots of stuff, including how teens react to stuff, I find she was not only written pretty well in general, but that any bit she did overreact in other areas was very plausible given what Danny ignored, and how that pressure to control Michelle would be in the back of her mind. Exploring a realistic scenario of how things worked out. taking in all the psychological aspects, what the doctor would have advised, etc. was very interesting.
And yet, it was able to remain the same, wholesome show. If I'd been a FH writer, you would have seen a few such special episodes once they canonized the notion that "Danny didn't enforce any limits on Michelle till she was a month shy of four." Despite the fact that the doctor would have *told* him 2 years earlier that this is the time you need to start, her pediatrician would have emphasized to use the 2 i's (isolate and ignore), etc.. Indeed, with D.J.'s checkup a few months later, he might have asked to see all three men, and talked with them and D.J. about it when Michelle was 2 This is the way a good doctor works, when he sees a possible problem. And, I think the doctor would also tell D.J. not to stress too much over it, and also to ignore some stuff so she doens't overwork herself.
I can understand if you see it differently, though. Ellipsis is what fan fiction is best for.
So, that long bit, that started as a short analysis (Yeah, till I typed the first letter :-), is how I view Michelle and how I think most fans viewed her. And, it's why I've always been at #4 above. Like Columbo, I'm always interested in the little things, and spot patterns pretty quickly.
P.S.: For those who do enjoy reading, and that may be a lot of those who made it this far :-), I've got a few stories that show that psychological stuff well. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4102854/1/Still_A_Great_Father shows that well, along with what I think happened after Disneyworld. Along with a doctor's appointment that saddens Danny, yet also helps him see he's still done a good job. (My "Parties and Showers" and "pushing the LImtis" cover the samples incident's aftermath, though Danny dreams in the one linked that it was even worse and that D.J. did fwap Michelle, though as I show, I think if D.J. does spank really lightly then, Michelle's better behved the time around Disneyworld, so there isn't the problem., or as much of one at least. If you think D.J. did eventually spank Michelle, as I've always said, you can write your own fanfiction on fanfiction.net. But, I think this is more like the Tanners, as Michelle is sensitive underneath that Jesse-like exterior. I doubt she'd dare test D.J. after they'd discussed/she'd threatened it.)
Anyway, while many may have different viewing habits for TV than most (certainly than me :-) I had a few observations based on some of the things I saw, polling for the Chronology and in talking with fans, regarding how fans view Michelle. they might not be yours, but they can at least provide food for thought, since I came to post the one poll about it.
I think feelings about Michelle for original viewers (i.e.: 1987-95) went through stages. Not everyone felt all these stages, but they were: 1. Seeing how cute she was & not looking at the behavior/attitude at first; 2. Olsen overload, just tired of her, some confusing a character in a real fictional universe with real life actresses at times; 3. Balanced, but upset that she didn't get discilpined hardly at all; and now, 4. balanced, and more accepting, but just hoping that someone punished her where we don't see.
I've always been at #4, except a little #1 at first, since I started watching a lot in 2001 or so, and never saw it in original airing. Some (maybe more here?) are still at #3, maybe a small number at #1.
I ran a poll on some yahoo groups, and of those fans who had thought D.J. would have had to fwap Michelle, whether at #3 originally or whatever, they voted one of a couple things. First, once I'd showed how much D.J. would have had to do to bond with Michelle psychologically, if it were a real life situation, they felt D.J. could get Michelle to behave by just talking to her about the possibility of it. And, second, voters who thought that she did pretty much flocked to my idea of the "Tale of Two Princesses" that D.J. tells Michelle so she realizes it's possible for D.J. to do it before D.J. has to outright threaten it. (Like after the samples. She had to be pretty far out of control for anyone but D.J. - and that's after Danny had started to punish.)
I think Michelle's behavior led in the past to her being by far a least favorite. But, I think that's mellowed somewhat, as most fans consider just how much pediatricians talk about, or decide that there's got to be something to that 99%+ of the time we don't see. (Called an ellipsis in literature, the habit of writers not teling every detail. For instance, people do go to the bathroom but it's almost never mentioned, and certainly not described in detail :-) I think Michelle can be at least average to closer to a favorite to a good number of people.
And, of course, as some have said, we don't know for sure what went on that 99% of the time, so maybe we shouldn't guess. But, we know something did in the part outside the 30 minutes per week we see. (Out of 168 hours.) It's possible Michelle was just so incredibly well behaved that she only needed told not to do something, and almost never tested limits. Let's just say that's not what a lot of people saw. :-) But, hey, elipsis, in literature, is very common. And, we don't know for sure. My opinion is just that based on my own experience, and that is that older sisters (yes, I'll grant it could have been Stephanie) will step in and discipline at times like what we see, which is a parent who rarely enforces limits.
I've enjoyed doing Stephanie fanfics, but I also really have found myself enjoying writing Danny , becasue I think there's some interesting psychological stuff that comes out of how he ignored Michelle's misbehavior, how he cleaned so much, etc., and I can kind of understand; I think I'd likely react the same way in similar circumstances (wife's tragic death) at first, though I'd recover very fast, especially compared to him. The book Universe is probably about right for me, where he doesn't obsess, but still D.J. develops as a much more proactive mother figure.
I've found D.J. to also be fun to write, because while Hollywood overdoes lots of stuff, including how teens react to stuff, I find she was not only written pretty well in general, but that any bit she did overreact in other areas was very plausible given what Danny ignored, and how that pressure to control Michelle would be in the back of her mind. Exploring a realistic scenario of how things worked out. taking in all the psychological aspects, what the doctor would have advised, etc. was very interesting.
And yet, it was able to remain the same, wholesome show. If I'd been a FH writer, you would have seen a few such special episodes once they canonized the notion that "Danny didn't enforce any limits on Michelle till she was a month shy of four." Despite the fact that the doctor would have *told* him 2 years earlier that this is the time you need to start, her pediatrician would have emphasized to use the 2 i's (isolate and ignore), etc.. Indeed, with D.J.'s checkup a few months later, he might have asked to see all three men, and talked with them and D.J. about it when Michelle was 2 This is the way a good doctor works, when he sees a possible problem. And, I think the doctor would also tell D.J. not to stress too much over it, and also to ignore some stuff so she doens't overwork herself.
I can understand if you see it differently, though. Ellipsis is what fan fiction is best for.
So, that long bit, that started as a short analysis (Yeah, till I typed the first letter :-), is how I view Michelle and how I think most fans viewed her. And, it's why I've always been at #4 above. Like Columbo, I'm always interested in the little things, and spot patterns pretty quickly.
P.S.: For those who do enjoy reading, and that may be a lot of those who made it this far :-), I've got a few stories that show that psychological stuff well. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4102854/1/Still_A_Great_Father shows that well, along with what I think happened after Disneyworld. Along with a doctor's appointment that saddens Danny, yet also helps him see he's still done a good job. (My "Parties and Showers" and "pushing the LImtis" cover the samples incident's aftermath, though Danny dreams in the one linked that it was even worse and that D.J. did fwap Michelle, though as I show, I think if D.J. does spank really lightly then, Michelle's better behved the time around Disneyworld, so there isn't the problem., or as much of one at least. If you think D.J. did eventually spank Michelle, as I've always said, you can write your own fanfiction on fanfiction.net. But, I think this is more like the Tanners, as Michelle is sensitive underneath that Jesse-like exterior. I doubt she'd dare test D.J. after they'd discussed/she'd threatened it.)