http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/04/14/DDJN104SEP.DTL

A sitcom snob stoops to rethink CBS Mondays
Tim Goodman

Monday, April 14, 2008

This is a column for people who don't like CBS sitcoms. Because it's about CBS sitcoms.

Now, if you fall into this camp and, by the way, just happen to like comedies on television, odds are you're watching all the really funny ones on NBC. They're not the highest rated. But they get the most acclaim.

But are the people who love, say, "30 Rock" - the best sitcom on network television - or "The Office" or "My Name Is Earl" or even the elder statesman of praised-but-not-watched television, "Scrubs," denying themselves a good time by avoiding CBS on Monday nights?

Yes. Well, a qualified yes.

There's a perfectly understandable reason that people who like a certain kind of comedy - often dry, ironic, slightly bitter, tangentially odd and brilliantly creative - will avoid comedies on CBS.

They're too cool for the room.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, because it's true. Who's going to argue that CBS is cool at anything? Especially humor? It's not like you're going to cut your wrists on the sharp edges of pretty much any half hour over at CBS.

And if you're watching NBC series, it's probably because you like single-camera comedies without a laugh track. The idea being that a laugh track panders to an audience too stupid to laugh in the right places, and a multi-camera comedy reminds you of sitting at home with your parents laughing at the oldies. Or it reminds you of the first 45 years of television - you know it's a situation comedy because the acting is broad, the punch lines telegraphed, the choreography of the characters (like the wacky neighbor) duplicated from show to show. You want something fresher.

Understood.

The problem with sophisticated comedy - be it anti-obvious in nature, keenly observed absurdities or ironically dumb by choice - is that it creates its own little laugh ghetto from which you never get out. You don't want to watch "Two and a Half Men" because, well, it's "Two and a Half Men" with Charlie Sheen, for God's sake. What more need be said?

And yet, there's a smugness - almost a righteousness - to people who can only tolerate "30 Rock" or "Weeds" and sit around lamenting the death of "Arrested Development." Hey, it takes one to know one.

It's true that CBS is awash in laugh tracks and anyone unfortunate enough to end up in hell will find pretty much the same sound there. And that tired sitcom pacing - setup, punch line, setup punch line, big bang before the commercial break - is enough to make you really do damage to a free-standing TV set. But it's also true that funny is funny. It answers to no specific genre or network. From Milton Berle to "Flight of the Conchords," if you laugh, then it's funny. It worked.

You may not have wanted to laugh. You might have tried to stifle it. Perhaps you managed to turn what would normally be a loud laugh into a grunt-and-grin. But funny is funny and it cannot be dismissed merely because you don't like the channel.

Mea culpa
Now, having said all of that - and vastly preferring, ahem, non-CBS style humor - it could very well be that the Monday block of comedies on CBS are getting a bad rap. That bad rap may have originated right here, as a matter of fact.

But upon the appearance tonight of the dubiously titled "post-strike, second-season premiere" of CBS' "The Rules of Engagement," perhaps now is the time for a modification, if not a complete re-evaluation (because that's not forthcoming - let's walk before we run here).

At 8 p.m., CBS kicks off with "The Big Bang Theory," from creator Chuck Lorre, who also brings you "Two and a Half Men." There's a mechanical-hammer streak to Lorre's work, but when he gets a formula right, it generally sticks. Now, initially, the biggest drawback to "The Big Bang Theory" is that the premise is so trite. Super nerds intersect with hot, dumb blond neighbor. Nothing says 1970s more than that, unless they lived next to "The Jeffersons." And yet, despite the clanking obviousness of having a band of super nerds play their smarts against their social phobias and lameness, there's a lot to recommend here because the series is a shotgun blast of jokes and enough of the pellets are funny enough to make 22 minutes go by smoothly. Even better, main actors Johnny Galecki and Jim Parsons truly work hard for the humor, as the punch lines are intricately tied to fast-talking Einsteinian moments. It's as rote as "Frasier," but when all the cylinders are clicking - as they often did with "Frasier" - this sitcom delivers.

Doogie delivers
"How I Met Your Mother" is by far CBS' hippest comedy if that word can be applied in the same sentence as the Tiffany Network's call letters. It successfully works romantic comedy with cynical comedy and fuses likable young actors into a well-worn vehicle: four friends coming of age. Although the obvious key to the series is the breakout performance of Neil Patrick Harris as the cad Barney - the pursuit of emotionless sex drives him to ever-lower levels of jerkishness - the truth is that "Mother" is riddled with quick wit and smart (and sometimes sweet) humor. Though it took a cameo from Britney Spears to get the show much ink, it's an underappreciated gem.

"Two and a Half Men" might argue, however, that it's the real scapegoat for CBS old-school comedy disdain. It gets Emmy nominations and critics scoff. Hell, it lives and critics scoff. Though the show is too in love with cheap sex jokes, it's reminiscent of "Everybody Loves Raymond" and "King of Queens" before it - series some comedy fans wouldn't watch with financial incentives but ones still able to hit the periodic punch line that even grumpy satirists would grudgingly laugh at.

That Warburton voice
"The Rules of Engagement" is one of those formulas so old, they can't catalog the bones (married couple, engaged couple, single friend - the stages of love and emotional growth). It can't be said that the writers are infusing the conceit with much originality, but the key to the show is Patrick Warburton, who plays the married man here.

Not only does Warburton get - and nail - all the best lines, he's strangely evocative of "The Tick," the old Fox series where he played the title character. It could be that Warburton just plays Warburton (from Puddy on "Seinfeld" to his many voice roles), but if you just imagine that the Tick lost his blue suit and ended up in a CBS sitcom, "Rules of Engagement" really takes off (at least when he's onscreen).

Granted, all of these shows have some kind of caveat, or appear here with a slew of backhanded compliments. But they all, in some part, are funnier than people give them credit for (particularly "How I Met Your Mother") and deserve more respect. And no, a laugh track didn't just drown out that last sentence.

thanks for posting that artcile for the record while love to watch the nbc thursday comedies i also like how i met your mother and i really really enjoy big big bang theory on cbs mondays and im sure im not the only one who enjoys both one camera and 3 camera sitcoms that articil makes it sound like that people dont know how to enjoy different types of comedy talk about a sitcom snob the guy that wrote that piece should take a look in the mirror.

ive tried to watch the Monday sitcoms and i just cant get into them. just not my types of shows i guess.

Tim Goodman is an idiot. There is nothing like CBS Monday night traditional sitcoms. Apparently, the viewers agree with this, too, because it is by far the highest rated sitcom block on TV.

No one seems to understand that those shows on NBC must not be THAT good, because if they were, MORE PEOPLE WOULD WATCH THEM. It's not like NBC is pay TV. I'm not saying they're bad, but they aren't the gold everyone in the industry seems to think they are, or everyone would watch. But they're watching CSI and WAT. :faint: Not something on CBS!

Okay, those shows are not my type of humor, but then I must be in the majority. Frankly, I didn't see any humor period, dry, witty, or otherwise. The times I've seen Scrubs, I thought it was boring.

As for CBS, they need to burn all copies of Old Christine. Absolutely NOTHING funny in that show. MIMYM can be funny, 2 and a half men can be when it's not one sex joke after another. BBT...can't get into it as much, but still better than NBC's offerings.

And when are the stereotypical jabs at CBS being a network for 80 year old going to end? How archaic is that scapegoat excuse?

I don't really understand what every critic sees in the NBC sitcoms either. They may be good to critics, but they're obviously not that watchable for the audiences. Not one NBC sitcom pleases me - they are all just boring to me. CBS sitcoms are way more funny, and the people tuning in must think the same thing.

I just love it when critics seem to love every single NBC show, yet the network comes in dead last nearly every week.

NBC shows are geared for specific audiences, not the general public. CBS sitcoms are geared more for the general public. NBC shows are more "cult" shows so to speak...they are not meant to bring in massive ratings. there's nothing wrong with that. good ratings does not equal quality.

NBC shows are geared for specific audiences, not the general public. CBS sitcoms are geared more for the general public. NBC shows are more "cult" shows so to speak...they are not meant to bring in massive ratings. there's nothing wrong with that. good ratings does not equal quality.
Ditto



Though I love Big bang Theory( but without Sheldon it wouldnt be as funny) and How i Met Your Mother

NBC shows are geared for specific audiences, not the general public. CBS sitcoms are geared more for the general public. NBC shows are more "cult" shows so to speak...they are not meant to bring in massive ratings. there's nothing wrong with that. good ratings does not equal quality.

The specific audience is college-educated, high-income households. The shows did well in demos last night. How I Met Your Mother and even the Two and a Half Men would be very compatible with them. It's just that CBS' audiences will watch anything. ABC and Fox aren't setting the world on fire with well-written sitcoms either. The dearth of comedies is not a one-network problem. No comedy has worked for CBS outside of Monday night in almost 35 years. The recycled clunkers on ABC and Fox are tired old shows by episode 2. The Office will be an evergreen in syndication as opposed to hit shows that somehow don't have a big rerun turnout like Family Ties and Night Court.

To prefer sharp, ironic, and cool single-camera work to the four-camera taped productions is just a choice, no more and no less than whether to put ketchup on your hot dog, or to point out the desirability of college education or high income.

It has nothing to do with laughter.

Likewise, to watch the one type of show or the other is to make a choice about which consumer goods you wish to have peddled to you.

It has nothing to do with laughter, either.

But it has a lot to do with material consumption -- and the primary good is always coolness.

The specific audience is college-educated, high-income households. The shows did well in demos last night. How I Met Your Mother and even the Two and a Half Men would be very compatible with them. It's just that CBS' audiences will watch anything. ABC and Fox aren't setting the world on fire with well-written sitcoms either. The dearth of comedies is not a one-network problem. No comedy has worked for CBS outside of Monday night in almost 35 years. The recycled clunkers on ABC and Fox are tired old shows by episode 2. The Office will be an evergreen in syndication as opposed to hit shows that somehow don't have a big rerun turnout like Family Ties and Night Court.
exactly.

exactly.

Exactly not.

The CBS slobs obviously chose not to watch the quality stuff. Good for them.

As regards evergreen-ness, let's wait, oh, thirty years or so before concluding whether the cool ironic sharp stuff holds as well in syndication as the moronic fifties-sixties-seventies crap.

Oh, isn't it cool to consume?

Exactly not.

The CBS slobs obviously chose not to watch the quality stuff. Good for them.

As regards evergreen-ness, let's wait, oh, thirty years or so before concluding whether the cool ironic sharp stuff holds as well in syndication as the moronic fifties-sixties-seventies crap.

Oh, isn't it cool to consume?
actually i watch shows that i think are funny. i think 30 Rock is funny. i think Two and a Half Men is not funny. does that make me a stupid hippie loser who watches TV shows to be cool? no.

there's no secret messages in the Thursday NBC sitcoms. it's a different style of humor then the CBS sitcoms. some people like the NBC humor, some people like the CBS humor. that's it.

Exactly not.

The CBS slobs obviously chose not to watch the quality stuff. Good for them.

As regards evergreen-ness, let's wait, oh, thirty years or so before concluding whether the cool ironic sharp stuff holds as well in syndication as the moronic fifties-sixties-seventies crap.

Oh, isn't it cool to consume?
Considering your idea of cool is talking down to members on an internet message board...

Exactly not.

The CBS slobs obviously chose not to watch the quality stuff. Good for them.

As regards evergreen-ness, let's wait, oh, thirty years or so before concluding whether the cool ironic sharp stuff holds as well in syndication as the moronic fifties-sixties-seventies crap.

Oh, isn't it cool to consume?


How I Met Your Mother is as good a sitcom as most any quality sitcom.

Two and a Half Men is as laugh out loud as most any sitcom.

You don't have to wait thirty years to provide an educated analysis. The Office has been a money machine in various media formats. A genuine trailblazer in new revenue for networks to amortize their license fees. That said, syndication alone will be different in five years, never mind thirty. Who is going to be watching cut-up syndicated reruns with local logos and snipes? As TV and online merges, shows will be watched in an on-demand format in their best quality. The Office pioneered this on itunes. Funny is funny. If you don't get it, you can't blame the train for passing you by.

actually i watch shows that i think are funny. i think 30 Rock is funny. i think Two and a Half Men is not funny. does that make me a stupid hippie loser who watches TV shows to be cool? no.

there's no secret messages in the Thursday NBC sitcoms. it's a different style of humor then the CBS sitcoms. some people like the NBC humor, some people like the CBS humor. that's it.
Actually, HIMYM is an NBC show in disguise. The execs at CBS don't get it and have begrudgingly renewed it. Its creators are former Letterman writers and the comedy is a direct descendant of the original Late Night with David Letterman and Ed.

The following should not be taken to imply any argument with the moderators, merely as an attempt at clarification.

My point was exactly that it's all a matter of choice what to watch.

I wasn't talking down to anyone but obviously that's the impression I gave. Oops. Sorry. :) Personally to anyone offended.

I do resent the usual demographic rationale used in advertising, that "high-income,college-educated=quality", but I wouldn't want to get into more trouble by arguing it further.

Lastly, nothing I ever say is meant to be cool, though it probably comes across, far too often, as way too sharp. Or pick your choice of condemnation. :)

The following should not be taken to imply any argument with the moderators, merely as an attempt at clarification.

My point was exactly that it's all a matter of choice what to watch.

I wasn't talking down to anyone but obviously that's the impression I gave. Oops. Sorry. :) Personally to anyone offended.

I do resent the usual demographic rationale used in advertising, that "high-income,college-educated=quality", but I wouldn't want to get into more trouble by arguing it further.

Lastly, nothing I ever say is meant to be cool, though it probably comes across, far too often, as way too sharp. Or pick your choice of condemnation. :)
Way too sharp? Not at all. It just comes off as trying to be way too pretentious.

Great article.

I have never been a fan of Two And A Half Men. Sorry, I just don't think it's that funny.

CBS is trying to play to a younger crowd with HIMYM, which is at times a very funny show, but I watched the same show years ago. It was called Friends.

I do appreciate CBS for sticking with the traditional "filmed before a live audience" three camera sitcom format, it is still a format that will always be ripe for innovation; but I would rather watch the filmed comedies on NBC.

That is the future of sitcoms.

;)

the moronic fifties-sixties-seventies crap.


Which ones from that era do you think are..MORONIC?

Actually, HIMYM is an NBC show in disguise.
Ditto, it should be on NBC LOL

Which ones from that era do you think are..MORONIC?

None of them, of course. :)


Look:

"There's a perfectly understandable reason that people who like a certain kind of comedy - often dry, ironic, slightly bitter, tangentially odd and brilliantly creative - will avoid comedies on CBS.

They're too cool for the room.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, because it's true. Who's going to argue that CBS is cool at anything? Especially humor? It's not like you're going to cut your wrists on the sharp edges of pretty much any half hour over at CBS.

And if you're watching NBC series, it's probably because you like single-camera comedies without a laugh track. The idea being that a laugh track panders to an audience too stupid to laugh in the right places, and a multi-camera comedy reminds you of sitting at home with your parents laughing at the oldies. Or it reminds you of the first 45 years of television - you know it's a situation comedy because the acting is broad, the punch lines telegraphed, the choreography of the characters (like the wacky neighbor) duplicated from show to show. You want something fresher."

I happen to like the oldies.

The following should not be taken to imply any argument with the moderators, merely as an attempt at clarification.

My point was exactly that it's all a matter of choice what to watch.

I wasn't talking down to anyone but obviously that's the impression I gave. Oops. Sorry. :) Personally to anyone offended.

I do resent the usual demographic rationale used in advertising, that "high-income,college-educated=quality", but I wouldn't want to get into more trouble by arguing it further.

Lastly, nothing I ever say is meant to be cool, though it probably comes across, far too often, as way too sharp. Or pick your choice of condemnation. :)
I resent it too. I have tried to watch NBC's sitcoms but aside from My Name is Earl I can't get into them. The Office IMO is horrible. I can never see what's so great about it. 30 Rock is mildly amusing but it is in no way as great as the sitcoms from the past. Obviously the majority of the Country feels the same way...although as some have said the critics love them ( of course I don't care what they like since most of the time they're wrong) and NBC's sitcoms do have a cult following. Although we'll see if these sitcoms hold up in 20 years like some of the great sitcoms of the past.

I resent it too. I have tried to watch NBC's sitcoms but aside from My Name is Earl I can't get into them. The Office IMO is horrible. I can never see what's so great about it. 30 Rock is mildly amusing but it is in no way as great as the sitcoms from the past. Obviously the majority of the Country feels the same way...although as some have said the critics love them ( of course I don't care what they like since most of the time they're wrong) and NBC's sitcoms do have a cult following. Although we'll see if these sitcoms hold up in 20 years like some of the great sitcoms of the past.

My sentiments exactly. Thank you, Sonny. :) :)

I hate when people insinuate that people without a college education should be watching one thing and college grads should be watching something else. Just because you have a degree doesn't make you smarter or wittier that someone who has nothing. I'm sure there are blue-collar people who like NBC shows, and people with PhD's that like CBS shows. That whole thing of the NBC shows catering only to college grads is just ridiculous. My schooling had no effect on my sense of humor and what I thought was funny on TV.

I hate when people insinuate that people without a college education should be watching one thing and college grads should be watching something else. Just because you have a degree doesn't make you smarter or wittier that someone who has nothing. I'm sure there are blue-collar people who like NBC shows, and people with PhD's that like CBS shows. That whole thing of the NBC shows catering only to college grads is just ridiculous. My schooling had no effect on my sense of humor and what I thought was funny on TV.

Unfortunately (though I agree with you 100%) the insinuation is all too common. Somehow it always comes from people who like their humor "edgy", "cool", or "ironic" -- I'm quoting the original article, more or less. But as I found out above, if you try to turn the irony back, you wind up sounding pretentious. Oh, well. :)

Great article.

I have never been a fan of Two And A Half Men. Sorry, I just don't think it's that funny.

CBS is trying to play to a younger crowd with HIMYM, which is at times a very funny show, but I watched the same show years ago. It was called Friends.

I do appreciate CBS for sticking with the traditional "filmed before a live audience" three camera sitcom format, it is still a format that will always be ripe for innovation; but I would rather watch the filmed comedies on NBC.

That is the future of sitcoms.

;)
:lol:

Your right, this is the future of sitcoms. The list just keeps going; Curb Your Enthusiasm, Extras, Arrested Development, Samantha Who?, etc. People need to accept change.

:lol:

Your right, this is the future of sitcoms. The list just keeps going; Curb Your Enthusiasm, Extras, Arrested Development, Samantha Who?, etc. People need to accept change.
Nobody has to accept anything. Networks keep trying to go in this direction and for the most part they aren't very successful. Arrested Development struggled just to get 3 years...Samantha Who after a strong start is failing now... As I said 30 Rock is not a high rated show. If it was on another network it would already be canceled by now. The Office only seems to do really well when it airs for an hour. ABC tries one flop after another it seems. Everyone says that this is the wave of the future but if they were really that popular , then sitcoms would be all over tv again and highly rated too. They are not. The majority of the country is rejecting these kind of comedies although to be fair they aren't very receptive to the basic kind of sitcoms either although they do shine in syndication.

:lol:

Your right, this is the future of sitcoms. The list just keeps going; Curb Your Enthusiasm, Extras, Arrested Development, Samantha Who?, etc. People need to accept change.

Curb Your Enthusiasm, in its genesis and execution, reminds me of the Honeymooners as a skit on Gleason's variety show.

Arrested Development was a mix of Mama's Family, and reverse Beverly Hillbillies.

30 Rock was done aeons ago as the Mary Tyler Moore show.

Samantha Who continues a movie -- Overboard.

Obviously all these shows have their own takes, and their own style. I AM NOT DISSING ANY OF THEM. But none of them are really new, or represent fundamental change.

Besides, TV is a medium that's completely consumption driven. People don't need to accept change -- to give them what they want has always been the networks' very real problem. OK, maybe not always, but certainly at the beginning of TV broadcasting in the late 40's and early 50's, before the standard genres had been figured out -- and now, when fragmentation and alternate video streaming over the web have finally reached a critical levels. :)

And just as sixty years ago (the old) radio was the primary model, today they're still using (the old) TV as an inspiration.

But I think that the TV sitcom is as dead as the once-read radio sitcom. Based on what's out there today, that is. :)

Nobody has to accept anything. Networks keep trying to go in this direction and for the most part they aren't very successful. Arrested Development struggled just to get 3 years...Samantha Who after a strong start is failing now... As I said 30 Rock is not a high rated show. If it was on another network it would already be canceled by now. The Office only seems to do really well when it airs for an hour. ABC tries one flop after another it seems. Everyone says that this is the wave of the future but if they were really that popular , then sitcoms would be all over tv again and highly rated too. They are not. The majority of the country is rejecting these kind of comedies although to be fair they aren't very receptive to the basic kind of sitcoms either although they do shine in syndication.
Ratings doesn't equal quality. Just because Two and a Half Men has better numbers than Scrubs doesn't automatically make it a better show. Does everyone in America honestly think Idol is the absolute best show there is just because it's been the #1 program for years? I hope not...

And nobody HAS to accept the new way of sitcoms, but maybe some people should think twice before snubbing them just because they don't have a laugh track. The majority of the country isn't only rejecting these sitcoms, they're rejecting sitcoms in general. There really hasn't been a HUGE sitcom since the ends of Friends and Everybody Loves Raymond.

Does everyone in America honestly think Idol is the absolute best show there is just because it's been the #1 program for years? I hope not...

But the thing is, quality has nothing to do with anything. TV shows as a business model have always been a way to make watching the ads palatable. -- Even the pioneers felt creatively stifled by this. In the fifties, the DuMont network failed because it couldn't establish enough affiliates, but it managed to create the modern system of bying ad time in 60- or 30-second spots, rather than as a half-hour block (which is how old radio and early ABC/NBC/CBS worked). Maybe the problem is that technology renders the ad time obsolete -- and so nothing will work until they find another way to make us watch the buy-buy-buy bits.

Ratings doesn't equal quality. Just because Two and a Half Men has better numbers than Scrubs doesn't automatically make it a better show. Does everyone in America honestly think Idol is the absolute best show there is just because it's been the #1 program for years? I hope not...

And nobody HAS to accept the new way of sitcoms, but maybe some people should think twice before snubbing them just because they don't have a laugh track. The majority of the country isn't only rejecting these sitcoms, they're rejecting sitcoms in general. There really hasn't been a HUGE sitcom since the ends of Friends and Everybody Loves Raymond.
You are right ratings don't equal quality. On the other hand just because these sitcoms don't get big ratings , that doesn't equal quality either. Just because critics say these shows are great doesn't make them so. I use the critics to sample tv shows but I make up my own mind. I can use the same logic too by saying that maybe some people should think twice before snubbing them ( the traditional sitcom) just because they have a laugh track. I think that's really what the article is stating. It seems like sitcom fans are divided between the 2 forms of sitcoms and that may be one of the reasons that their really hasn't been a breakout hit in some years. I'm not saying I don't like some of the laughtrack free sitcoms. I do like MNIE, I've watched Weeds and 30 Rock. They just aren't as funny as some of the sitcoms from the past. Oh and I never liked Scubs but have liked Two and a Half Men so.... but that's just me. Anyway its nice debating the subject with everyone. Usually my threads just die. :lol:

Curb Your Enthusiasm, in its genesis and execution, reminds me of the Honeymooners as a skit on Gleason's variety show.

Arrested Development was a mix of Mama's Family, and reverse Beverly Hillbillies.

30 Rock was done aeons ago as the Mary Tyler Moore show.

Samantha Who continues a movie -- Overboard.

Obviously all these shows have their own takes, and their own style. I AM NOT DISSING ANY OF THEM. But none of them are really new, or represent fundamental change.

Besides, TV is a medium that's completely consumption driven. People don't need to accept change -- to give them what they want has always been the networks' very real problem. OK, maybe not always, but certainly at the beginning of TV broadcasting in the late 40's and early 50's, before the standard genres had been figured out -- and now, when fragmentation and alternate video streaming over the web have finally reached a critical levels. :)

And just as sixty years ago (the old) radio was the primary model, today they're still using (the old) TV as an inspiration.

But I think that the TV sitcom is as dead as the once-read radio sitcom. Based on what's out there today, that is. :)
Unfortunately I think You're right about the sitcom. It's as dead as the Westerns and Variety Shows of our past. :( I hope reality tv goes this way too.

Ratings doesn't equal quality. Just because Two and a Half Men has better numbers than Scrubs doesn't automatically make it a better show. Does everyone in America honestly think Idol is the absolute best show there is just because it's been the #1 program for years? I hope not...

And nobody HAS to accept the new way of sitcoms, but maybe some people should think twice before snubbing them just because they don't have a laugh track. The majority of the country isn't only rejecting these sitcoms, they're rejecting sitcoms in general. There really hasn't been a HUGE sitcom since the ends of Friends and Everybody Loves Raymond.

I agree.

Look, I'm not mocking anyone if you happen to like Two And A Half Men, that type of comedy doesn't do it for me anymore.

I just don;t happen to agree with the majority on what is the best comedy on Television.

I hate when people insinuate that people without a college education should be watching one thing and college grads should be watching something else. Just because you have a degree doesn't make you smarter or wittier that someone who has nothing. I'm sure there are blue-collar people who like NBC shows, and people with PhD's that like CBS shows. That whole thing of the NBC shows catering only to college grads is just ridiculous. My schooling had no effect on my sense of humor and what I thought was funny on TV.

It's not an insinuation. It's a matter of recorded data. The success that some shows have in demographics literally has documentation that they are better educated, higher-income households.

NBC doesn't just cater to college grads. The entire 21st century does.

That's what they said in 1984 before Cosby. It's a tired, old argument. As long as humans enjoy laughter, the sitcom will continue. They just go in cycles. Westerns and variety shows aren't relatable to modern audiences. When they are well-executed such as Deadwood, they can attract non-western fans. But, by and large, there is no reason to keep telling those stories.

By the way, I just foud out that HIMYM is not filmed in front of a studio audience.

They're just pretending to be a "traditional" sitcom.

Fraud!!!

It's not an insinuation. It's a matter of recorded data. The success that some shows have in demographics literally has documentation that they are better educated, higher-income households.

NBC doesn't just cater to college grads. The entire 21st century does.

Well... I'd say that like any commercial network, NBC caters to advertisers, and bribes the audience with programming. Success here is measured not in ratings but in fees charged per advertising half-minute. To be honest, I have no idea whether they're able to charge more than CBS or not. Do you know? -- If you do, I'd love to see the links.

As regards sophistication, by the way, I wouldn't praise the NBC shows too highly. They're a bit cynical, yes, but I'd say they're more angry than sophisticated. -- That, of course, is pure opinion. ;)

------------------------------------------------------

PS (added in later edit)

Ad revenue is not really publicized very well. Still, there's an interesting tidbit (http://www.movieweb.com/tv/news/41/27741.php) (reported second-hand):

The average 30-second spot on a network TV show during the first three months of this year cost $125,634, down 12 percent from the same period a year ago, according to New York media shop TargetCast and reported in today's (Tuesday) online edition of Advertising Age. ABC, CBS and Fox saw ad rates tumble between 9 and 12 percent, while NBC's dropped nearly 25 percent. The decline was attributed to lower audience numbers during the writers' strike.

It says nothing about the absolute levels per show, of course. Nor about the post-strike situation.

Ratings doesn't equal quality. Just because Two and a Half Men has better numbers than Scrubs doesn't automatically make it a better show.

No, but it also doesn't mean that high rated shows are all quality-deprived or that all lower rated shows are so brilliant that the problem is just that no one gets them.

I may or may not like a show, but if it manages to stick around on TV more than 4 episodes, it can't completely lack quality...


Does everyone in America honestly think Idol is the absolute best show there is just because it's been the #1 program for years? I hope not...

...unless it's a reality show, then it can.

It's not an insinuation. It's a matter of recorded data. The success that some shows have in demographics literally has documentation that they are better educated, higher-income households.

NBC doesn't just cater to college grads. The entire 21st century does.
What I'm saying though is that someone's decision to go to college or not is a really bad basis for what people watch on TV. Trust me, many people to come out of college are not exactly the sophisticated geniuses this catering makes them out to be.

You are right ratings don't equal quality. On the other hand just because these sitcoms don't get big ratings , that doesn't equal quality either. Just because critics say these shows are great doesn't make them so. I use the critics to sample tv shows but I make up my own mind. I can use the same logic too by saying that maybe some people should think twice before snubbing them ( the traditional sitcom) just because they have a laugh track. I think that's really what the article is stating. It seems like sitcom fans are divided between the 2 forms of sitcoms and that may be one of the reasons that their really hasn't been a breakout hit in some years. I'm not saying I don't like some of the laughtrack free sitcoms. I do like MNIE, I've watched Weeds and 30 Rock. They just aren't as funny as some of the sitcoms from the past. Oh and I never liked Scubs but have liked Two and a Half Men so.... but that's just me. Anyway its nice debating the subject with everyone. Usually my threads just die. :lol:
I didn't say one word about the critics. Sure, I like to read what they like and don't like, but I make my own judgement of the tv shows I watch.

Of course you can use the same logic about snubbing the more "traditional" sitcoms. I don't snub them. I watch half the CBS sitcom lineup on a weekly basis and half the NBC sitcom lineup on a weekly basis. I'm as open-minded as they come.

I agree, it's nice debating the subject. It's been fun. And for the most part everyone that's posted in this thread has kept it civil. We should have more talks like this.

Usually your threads die? Well, I guess your now taking a pointer from today's young Hollywood: Create controversy to keep your name in the headlines. ;)

No, but it also doesn't mean that high rated shows are all quality-deprived or that all lower rated shows are so brilliant that the problem is just that no one gets them.
I completely agree. There's GREAT shows that are highly rated. And there's GREAT shows that barely make 3 million viewers each week.

By the way, I just foud out that HIMYM is not filmed in front of a studio audience.

They're just pretending to be a "traditional" sitcom.

Fraud!!!
:rofl:

You just realized that? I enjoy HIMYM, but their laugh track is one of the worse I've ever heard. It gets annoying after a while.

:rofl:

You just realized that? I enjoy HIMYM, but their laugh track is one of the worse I've ever heard. It gets annoying after a while.

Yeah, I like to give shows the benefit of the doubt. :lol:

Do any sitcoms film before a live audience anymore?

[QUOTE=vtunie]Well... I'd say that like any commercial network, NBC caters to advertisers, and bribes the audience with programming. Success here is measured not in ratings but in fees charged per advertising half-minute. To be honest, I have no idea whether they're able to charge more than CBS or not. Do you know? -- If you do, I'd love to see the links.

It's not a network-centric philosophy. All networks covet and make more with higher-income, higher-educated households. These are recorded by A.C. Nielsen. Ratings result in the fees charged (and not just by half-minute... spots are in varying lengths... 20 second spots... longer movie promos, etc) so to say ratings aren't important shows a total ignorance of the topic.




As regards sophistication, by the way, I wouldn't praise the NBC shows too highly. They're a bit cynical, yes, but I'd say they're more angry than sophisticated. -- That, of course, is pure opinion. ;)

That is an uneducated opinion usually reflected by aging, hypersensitive viewers.

Do any sitcoms film before a live audience anymore?
Back To You does. They even say "Back To You is filmed before a live studio audience" at the top of the show. It reminds me of Cheers, LOL. I'm not sure about any of the CBS sitcoms though. Back To You is a FOX sitcom - and as weird as it sounds, yes, FOX still airs sitcoms. :p

That is an uneducated opinion usually reflected by aging, hypersensitive viewers.
So now we have the real reason you dislike the "new" comedies, your OLD and just don't "get them." ;)

:rofl:

You just realized that? I enjoy HIMYM, but their laugh track is one of the worse I've ever heard. It gets annoying after a while.
I didn't know that either. Guess I don't watch it enough, and when I do I tune the laughter out.

So now we have the real reason you dislike the "new" comedies, your OLD and just don't "get them." ;)

That doesn't make sense. I am in the target demo and like the intelligent comedies. I guess your response identifies how you think you and the shows you like are funny.

Back To You does. They even say "Back To You is filmed before a live studio audience" at the top of the show. It reminds me of Cheers, LOL.

Nope, Cheers was a funny show and didn't feel like it was produced in 1972.