His name was D'Urville Martin and apparently he was the REAL original Lionel in the pilot episode in 1968/69!

Huh, I didn't know that!

I still think Mike Evans was THE ONLY Lionel Jefferson.

How did you find out Brian? And what is that thing in his hair? A potato chip bag clip? :lol:

How did you find out Brian? And what is that thing in his hair? A potato chip bag clip? :lol:


:lol:

Good ol' IMDB

Never knew that. Always glad to learn something new abt one of MY VERY FAVORITE SHOWS!

Somewhat OT...but what happened to Mike Evans during the time he wasn't on the Jeffersons? Was he doing other things or was there a problem on the show? I think it was the second or third season of The Jeffersons he was replaced by Damon Evans. Then he was back!

Somewhat OT...but what happened to Mike Evans during the time he wasn't on the Jeffersons? Was he doing other things or was there a problem on the show? I think it was the second or third season of The Jeffersons he was replaced by Damon Evans. Then he was back!


After the first season of the Jeffersons, Mike Evans felt his role became too small and went to Norman lear and asked how can he get off the show? Lear told him just say you want off the show and You are off and that's what Mike did and he was gone for the next 3 years. After the 5th season, the guy who played the second lionel wanted more money and when he didn;t get it he left the show to take a role on "Roots" the next generation in 1978. So the plan was to no longer have a Lionel on the show going into the 1979-80 season until Sherman Hemsley ran into Mike Evans in the summer of 1979 and they chatted and he asked Mike Evans to come back since he saw he wasn;t really working at that time and that's how Mike Evans returned to the show in season 6.

How sad he died in 1984 at the age of 45 from a heart attack.

I was reading his info on IMDB. Thanx Brian for this information. Great info and tidbit. ;)

BTW, why were there two unaired pilots of AITF? Were they that bad?

After the first season of the Jeffersons, Mike Evans felt his role became too small and went to Norman lear and asked how can he get off the show? Lear told him just say you want off the show and You are off and that's what Mike did and he was gone for the next 3 years. After the 5th season, the guy who played the second lionel wanted more money and when he didn;t get it he left the show to take a role on "Roots" the next generation in 1978. So the plan was to no longer have a Lionel on the show going into the 1979-80 season until Sherman Hemsley ran into Mike Evans in the summer of 1979 and they chatted and he asked Mike Evans to come back since he saw he wasn;t really working at that time and that's how Mike Evans returned to the show in season 6.


Wasn't he also working on scripts for Good Times at the time of his departure?

BTW, why were there two unaired pilots of AITF? Were they that bad?

Yes.:lol:

The first 2 pilots were for ABC, who passed on both. The 2nd pilot was called Justice For All, as Archie was called Justice. The Mike and Gloria actors, didn't quite work out. The pilots were produced in the late 60's.

The 3rd pilot was shot just at the tail end of the 60's and there was a gap between the first episode and the 2nd, hence the sudden shift in character motivations.

I also did not know that .

Yes.:lol:

The first 2 pilots were for ABC, who passed on both. The 2nd pilot was called Justice For All, as Archie was called Justice. The Mike and Gloria actors, didn't quite work out. The pilots were produced in the late 60's.

The 3rd pilot was shot just at the tail end of the 60's and there was a gap between the first episode and the 2nd, hence the sudden shift in character motivations.

The first pilot was called Justice for All. The second pilot was called Those Were the Days (and the opening for that can be seen on YouTube).

An actress named Kelly Jean Peters was the Gloria in the first pilot. I'm jealous of her because she got to kiss Gregory Sierra (:eyes: - another AITF guest star) in an episode of Kung Fu!!!! :mad: :lol:

There were two other pilots for AITF. Those Were the Days did air on TV Land at one point. The script is basically the same as the 'pilot' Meet the Bunkers that did finally air on CBS in January of '71.

I don't think the 'original' original pilot has ever been located. Kelly Jean Peters can be seen in other shows; a few that come to mind (that I am familiar with at least) are a Monkees episode "Too Many Girls", a Green Hornet Episode "The Silent Gun", and a MASH episode "Love Story".

The guy who played Lionel in the AITF pilot can be seen in a bunch of stuff too but the one that immediately comes to my mind is that he played a boxer in a Monkees episode "Monkees in the Ring".

"After the first season of the Jeffersons, Mike Evans felt his role became too small and went to Norman lear and asked how can he get off the show? Lear told him just say you want off the show and You are off and that's what Mike did and he was gone for the next 3 years. After the 5th season, the guy who played the second lionel wanted more money and when he didn;t get it he left the show to take a role on "Roots" the next generation in 1978. So the plan was to no longer have a Lionel on the show going into the 1979-80 season until Sherman Hemsley ran into Mike Evans in the summer of 1979 and they chatted and he asked Mike Evans to come back since he saw he wasn;t really working at that time and that's how Mike Evans returned to the show in season 6."

Actually, Evans was writing scripts for GOOD TIMES since 1974, and realized after the first season of THE JEFFERSONS that he coudln't do both script-writing as well as acting.

Lear decided to keep him with GOOD TIMES, and replace him on THE JEFFERSONS. When GOOD TIMES finally left the air in 1979, Evans returned to THE JEFFERSONS to reprise his role as 'Lionel'.

"After the first season of the Jeffersons, Mike Evans felt his role became too small and went to Norman lear and asked how can he get off the show? Lear told him just say you want off the show and You are off and that's what Mike did and he was gone for the next 3 years. After the 5th season, the guy who played the second lionel wanted more money and when he didn;t get it he left the show to take a role on "Roots" the next generation in 1978. So the plan was to no longer have a Lionel on the show going into the 1979-80 season until Sherman Hemsley ran into Mike Evans in the summer of 1979 and they chatted and he asked Mike Evans to come back since he saw he wasn;t really working at that time and that's how Mike Evans returned to the show in season 6."

Actually, Evans was writing scripts for GOOD TIMES since 1974, and realized after the first season of THE JEFFERSONS that he coudln't do both script-writing as well as acting.

Lear decided to keep him with GOOD TIMES, and replace him on THE JEFFERSONS. When GOOD TIMES finally left the air in 1979, Evans returned to THE JEFFERSONS to reprise his role as 'Lionel'.



The information I got is from the book-"the jeffersons" so stop posting false infromation on this board. His departure had nothing to do with good times and all that was explained in the book.

The info I posted is backed up on his bio by imbd.com:


"The major responsibilities and hardships of writing for "Good Times", which became one of the first TV sitcoms to feature a primarily African-American cast in quite some time, took its toll and Mike began making fewer appearances as Lionel. In fact he left the role completely in the fall of 1975 after only eight months to focus on his writing, and was replaced by actor Damon Evans (no relation to Mike), who inhabited the part for four seasons. Mike eventually reclaimed the part in 1979 after the cancellation of "Good Times". His character of Lionel, however, had dwindled so significantly in importance that he left the show again in 1981, this time for good. The family show ended its long run in 1985 after a decade."

Not sure who wrote the 'book' you are referring to, but it just may be full of 'false information' which you are passing along on this forum.

There were two other pilots for AITF. Those Were the Days did air on TV Land at one point. The script is basically the same as the 'pilot' Meet the Bunkers that did finally air on CBS in January of '71.

I don't think the 'original' original pilot has ever been located. Kelly Jean Peters can be seen in other shows; a few that come to mind (that I am familiar with at least) are a Monkees episode "Too Many Girls", a Green Hornet Episode "The Silent Gun", and a MASH episode "Love Story".

The guy who played Lionel in the AITF pilot can be seen in a bunch of stuff too but the one that immediately comes to my mind is that he played a boxer in a Monkees episode "Monkees in the Ring".
HelloLarry, you have me confused. Aren't the 2 original pilots on the Norman Lear set? Although I did read hear somewhere that the one was long lost.

The info I posted is backed up on his bio by imbd.com:


"The major responsibilities and hardships of writing for "Good Times", which became one of the first TV sitcoms to feature a primarily African-American cast in quite some time, took its toll and Mike began making fewer appearances as Lionel. In fact he left the role completely in the fall of 1975 after only eight months to focus on his writing, and was replaced by actor Damon Evans (no relation to Mike), who inhabited the part for four seasons. Mike eventually reclaimed the part in 1979 after the cancellation of "Good Times". His character of Lionel, however, had dwindled so significantly in importance that he left the show again in 1981, this time for good. The family show ended its long run in 1985 after a decade."

Not sure who wrote the 'book' you are referring to, but it just may be full of 'false information' which you are passing along on this forum.
I wouldn't believe anything on imbd.com: unless it had a source to back it up. I've seen plenty of false information over there.

HelloLarry, you have me confused. Aren't the 2 original pilots on the Norman Lear set? Although I did read hear somewhere that the one was long lost.



Yes but my post was done long before they announced the set. This is somewhat of an older thread. Both pilots are to be included in the Norman Lear set which is cool. Unfortunately...that is the only thing I'm interested in for the whole set and am not about to drop $100 just for that.

Yes but my post was done long before they announced the set. This is somewhat of an older thread. Both pilots are to be included in the Norman Lear set which is cool. Unfortunately...that is the only thing I'm interested in for the whole set and am not about to drop $100 just for that.
Keep your eye on Amazon. Sometimes they have 1-day-sales on packages like this. I picked up M.A.S.H. The Bix Box set for under 100.00, and Get Smart I think I got that way. I think I Love Lucy was like 50% off although I already had the whole series of that. They announce the sales on TVshowsondvd.com.

Thanks markway 895. I actually do a lot of my TV show shopping that way (the used route) because many of the sets are so damn expensive, especially the HBO sets. I waited and finally got season 6 used/new from a seller for $15. I'll keep an eye out for the Norman Lear Collection as well. I really want to see that pilot and am looking forward to peoples thoughts as they purchase it and view it.

How did you find out Brian? And what is that thing in his hair? A potato chip bag clip? :lol:

That's a hair pic also known as an afro comb.

His name was D'Urville Martin and apparently he was the REAL original Lionel in the pilot episode in 1968/69!
Yes I knew there was another Lionel played by a different Actor in the original All In The Family Pilot Episodes which I have Seen: you watch both Unaired pilot's on Youtube!

1968 All In The Family Unaired Pilot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xwKhHoQ-_w


1969 All IN The Family Unaired Pliot:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlboZuvBFNM

I also read it in several books over the Years so yes I knew there was someone before Mike who played Lionel.

[QUOTE=Ireneparalegal]How sad he died in 1984 at the age of 45 from a heart attack.



Was in that long ago that Mike Evans died or you talking one of the other Lionels? I thought Mike die maybe 5-10 years ago

The original Lionel, D'Urville Martin, that was in the first two unaired All in the Family pilots died in 1984. Mike Evans, the most famous Lionel, died in December 2006. Damon Evans, the other Lionel, is still living.