Well, I did a couple of searches and didn't find anything of relevance, so here I am starting another thread on one of our most talked about cases.
I was curious if anyone is convinced that Rob Schaffer did have something to do w/ Angela's disappearance? According to the doenetwork, he was cleared of having anything to do with it, so I'm assuming he took a polygraph test?
I've never thought Rob did it, I thought he came off very sad and distraught during the segment (not that that always means something) and I think he just had some really crummy luck with his transmission that night.
According to the doenetwork, a few other disappearances occured w/in a 100 mile radius and police suspect they could be related (Is this the cases concerning the Duff guy?). It sounds very similiar in the fact that one of the ladies reported seeing a creepy guy outside of the store she was working in.

Any thoughts?

I was never 100% sure Rob Schaffer was innocent, but I can't say that he's guilty either. What motive does he have? And parts of his stories are too easy to prove (the phone call, his transmission). But on the other hand.....

Why would Angela drop him off at his house after the BBQ, then drive just a few miles to a pay phone to call him??? She could have just gone home and called him there, they weren't far away! This part has always bothered me. It just doesn't make sense.

I know a lot of people would bet Kenneth McDuff was the killer. But to my knowledge, no remains of Angela Hammond have ever been found. And McDuff was executed so we may never know.

I don't know what to make of this but as I mentioned earlier in another thread I do find the whole transmission breakdown extremely odd, and also how come there were absolutely no witnesses??? You'd think at least one person would've seen something... Very weird IMO...

:confused:

Well, this was 1991, on a weeknight, around 11 or so at night, I can see how the downtown area of a town that has a couple thousand people would be deserted at that time of night on a weeknight except for probably a few drunks in the bars, those are probably the only people that would be around and they would have their minds on other things. At that time of night in a small town like that, the bars would be the only places open probably in a downtown area.

I am sure Rob's car was checked to make sure the transmission was checked, it does seem Rob was pretty thoroughly investigated, granted small town cops that probably had never investigated a homicide in their careers were doing the investigation.

I was one that always believed Rob was innocent, but lately I have been going back in my head, watching the segment and re-watching it and now I am not so sure. I still lean towards that he was innocent, I do not think he was the one that actually abducted and killed Angela Hammond, but I think there is a chance he may know more about what happened than he is telling. There is just something in this case that doesnt add up, I dont know how to explain it, just a gut feeling I have, something just doesnt feel right.

I have never doubted Rob's story. He seemed genuine. He was babysitting for his little brother when he got the fated call. I don't know how small the brother was but he probably substantiated the story that his brother dropped and phone and left the house quickly. Not to mention phone records probably backed up that the phone call was made from the pay phone to his house. All points in his favor.

One thing that did point in Rob's favor, was, if he was lying, he sure gave a detailed lie. I mean, he told what Angela told him, in terms of a description of the suspects vehicle including the de-cal in the back window, like I said, Rob is probably innocent, it was just something, that I maybe thought he knew more than what he is telling, but there is no evidence he was/is anythign but genuine and in my opinion it was right to eliminate him as a suspect.

Speaking of that decal, I also found it strange that that Pickup truck never surfaced, you would think that a decal like that would draw attention to it. Sure he could have gotten rid of it shortly after he kidnapped Angela, but I'm pretty sure he had it in his possession a long time before.

Now I'm not saying Rob is guilty but I'm just saying it's totally possible he is.

Since you mentioned the decal, the whole detailed description seems odd as well. Think about it, you're on the phone to your boyfriend and a truck keeps circling around, then parks, she gives a VERY detailed description of a dirty-looking man in an old pickup with a decal on the back of a fish jumping out of water. Seems too convenient, kwim? Wouldn't she say "Some guy in a truck keeps driving by" and leave it at that? And that is a very unusual decal and a very specific description, and for this truck to just disappear like a fart in the wind, nobody ever saw it again?? I don't know, it's fishy (no pun intended!) I know his story checks out but I just don't believe parts of it.

Since you mentioned the decal, the whole detailed description seems odd as well. Think about it, you're on the phone to your boyfriend and a truck keeps circling around, then parks, she gives a VERY detailed description of a dirty-looking man in an old pickup with a decal on the back of a fish jumping out of water. Seems too convenient, kwim? Wouldn't she say "Some guy in a truck keeps driving by" and leave it at that? And that is a very unusual decal and a very specific description, and for this truck to just disappear like a fart in the wind, nobody ever saw it again?? I don't know, it's fishy (no pun intended!) I know his story checks out but I just don't believe parts of it.

but that's just it: if Rob were to create this story, he would give a very generic description of a vehicle and not a detailed one, in other words, one that should be traced farily easily.

I think the reason Angela gave such a detailed description was because she had a feeling that there was a small chance something sinister might happen, so she described it just in case, but of course, unfortunately, something sinister did happen.

Why would Angela drop him off at his house after the BBQ, then drive just a few miles to a pay phone to call him??? She could have just gone home and called him there, they weren't far away! This part has always bothered me. It just doesn't make sense.

I don't think that's particularly suspicious. Look at how many cell phone calls there are nowadays. The only time I see my coworkers is the few minutes while the shift change is going on, and in that few minutes, they get personal phone calls. So I don't think it's atypical.

I don't know what to make of this but as I mentioned earlier in another thread I do find the whole transmission breakdown extremely odd, and also how come there were absolutely no witnesses??? You'd think at least one person would've seen something... Very weird IMO...

:confused:

If the transmission just happened to break down while this was going on, then yes I would agre that would be pretty odd, but Rob wasn't driving the car properly when he was trying to find Angela, he did something to damage the transmission, he probably didn't even realize it at the time, he was just so focused on finding Angela.

I don't think that's particularly suspicious. Look at how many cell phone calls there are nowadays. The only time I see my coworkers is the few minutes while the shift change is going on, and in that few minutes, they get personal phone calls. So I don't think it's atypical.

Right, but Angela and Rob had just been together at a BBQ, and she had just dropped him off, and then a few minutes later she calls on a pay phone? She only lived a few miles away, why didn't she just go home and call him? It might not be necessarily suspicious but it makes no sense at all.

Well, again, one must remember this was 1991, calling on a pay phone wasnt unusual, maybe she didnt have a phone in her room? Maybe she wanted to call Rob in private without waking up her family or without her family overhearing, regardless of how innocent the content of the conversation, teenagers sometimes like to keep stuff private.

Rob Schafer is either innocent, or the best damn liar I have ever seen. It's very rare that I totally believe a person's account of how something happened. I blame that on my legal training teaching us to examine all the grey areas in folks' stories (which would explain why I'm so critical of someone like Paul Pollis or Stephen Marfeo, for example. It's actually a pain in the butt because I can never just "take a side" in an argument. I have to hear everything... Blah. Anyway.)

Rob's story has always been consistent. His re-telling of the events is heartbreaking and I want to say that you almost see him cry (doesn't he get pretty choked up in the segment?) I genuinely believe that he did everything in his power to save Angela and blamed himself for her disappearance.

And as kadrmas pointed out, this was 1991. Cell phones weren't nearly as common as they are now. It's very possible that Angela got downtown, remembered a question she wanted to ask Rob, and pulled over at the nearest pay phone. This is totally speculation on my part, but you get my point. Maybe she used the pay phone because she didn't want to wake her parents by using the phone at home. Again, just speculation on my part, but I really don't find it odd that she was using the pay phone late at night.

Agreed CRicci, like I pointed out, Rob is probably innocent, he might have left details out, but there is zero evidence to support this. Someone in the past I believe tried suggesting that Rob offed Angela because she was pregnant. Didnt Rob propose marriage to Angela or wasnt he about to? Doesnt exactly sound like a young man bent on murder, from what I can tell, he was deeply in love with Angela and she felt likewise about him and he wanted to marry her and spend the rest of his life with her.

It does seem like this event de-railed his life sort of, I know little of what Rob has been up to, but someone posted on here he still lives in Missouri, that he never went into the military like he had planned, I do not know if he eventually married or not, but it seems like a majority of the community believed that Rob was innocent in this matter, including Angela's mother.

Of course though you will always have your haters, that probably to this day think for sure he did it and got away with "the perfect crime" which is the favorite cheezy prosecutor line. If people want to think Rob did it, that is their right, but they have zero evidence to back up such a conclusion and as much as they might like to forget it, unless you have some evidence, it is innocent until proven guilty in this country. Like CRicci said, either Rob is innocent 100 percent or he is pulling off an academy award winning acting performance.

OK, I can see why Angela would have used a payphone. That part always bothered me.

I suppose I am the eternal skeptic of this board, but I too am doubtful as to the veracity of Rob's story.

I made a post on this case a long time ago, but can't find it. Essentially, I think there are too many coincidences in Rob's story.

First, the transmission story is the big red flag. If he did damage the transmission by throwing the car in reverse, I am skeptical as to whether it would run at all. And why would it decide to go out after "making a right turn?" I doubt the turn would have anything to do with the transmission. Just a very suspicious story. I think it is likely that IF Rob did it, he used the car chase as an alibi while he disposed of her body and then claimed that his transmission just happened to go out and the suspect got away. So convenient. But this is a big if. I am not convinced Rob did it.

Second, as others have said, the distance between Angela and Rob was not very far, so why was she even calling him to begin with? This is even more confusing since she had left his house not long before.

Third: Why didn't Rob simply call the police instead of trying to handle it himself? Or at least, why didn't he call 911 before he headed out himself? This seems the most logical.

Fourth: Why were there no witnesses? No one in town who was interviewed by the cops had ever seen such a truck and, if I am not mistaken, this was a Friday or Saturday night and there were lots of kids riding the town "strip."

Someone said this happened on a weeknight, and if so, then perhaps there wasn't many people out and about. At any rate, the truck should have been spotted in the days/weeks prior to this event if the perpetrator lived anywhere in the area. Since no one ever spotted this truck nor knew anyone who drove one like it we are left with two scenarios:

1) Angela was abducted by a transient serial killer who just happened upon that small town and just happened upon her at a phone booth with no one in town seeing his truck that night (and remember a serial killer would need a lot of time to find a victim at the right spot, so it is likely someone would have seen him earlier).

2) Rob did it.

The one thing Rob does have going for him is that her body was never found. This fact alone sort of points to the fact that she was probably transported a good distance away (perhaps outside of the jurisdiction of any investigating police force). I doubt a 17-18 year old guy would be "saavy" enough to dispose of her body without a trace. Again, this fact points to her body being transported a good distance away and being disposed of by someone experienced in doing just that.

I am about 60/40 on this one, with the 60% being in favor that Rob did it.

I'm going to go on the record once more, advocating Rob's innocence in Angela's disappearance. Let me address some of the points you made:

First, the transmission story is the big red flag. If he did damage the transmission by throwing the car in reverse, I am skeptical as to whether it would run at all. And why would it decide to go out after "making a right turn?" I doubt the turn would have anything to do with the transmission. Just a very suspicious story. I think it is likely that IF Rob did it, he used the car chase as an alibi while he disposed of her body and then claimed that his transmission just happened to go out and the suspect got away. So convenient. But this is a big if. I am not convinced Rob did it.

I don't think the turn had anything to do with the transmission, either. I DO think that throwing the car into reverse did have something to do with it, however. And I'm sure the transmission could likely run, although Rob's car would have been affected a lot. Transmissions are interesting. I've seen them take incredible abuses and still run. On the other side, I've seen someone drive up a hill and blow theirs out. I'm sure that the authorities checked out Rob's transmission to make sure that the story was plausible.

Second, as others have said, the distance between Angela and Rob was not very far, so why was she even calling him to begin with? This is even more confusing since she had left his house not long before.

Early 1990's. Cell phones not available like they are now. Maybe she didn't want to disturb anyone at home by talking on the phone. There are tons of things that could explain this.

Third: Why didn't Rob simply call the police instead of trying to handle it himself? Or at least, why didn't he call 911 before he headed out himself? This seems the most logical.

Early 1990's. Many small towns did not have 911 capabilites. Using my hometown as an example... we didn't get 911 service until 1992 or 1993... I'm not sure which. But you see my point. This took place in Clinton, Missouri. By all accounts, it's a small town. Additionally, I'm sure Rob thought that he could have gotten down to the pay phone faster than if he stopped and called the police beforehand.

Fourth: Why were there no witnesses? No one in town who was interviewed by the cops had ever seen such a truck and, if I am not mistaken, this was a Friday or Saturday night and there were lots of kids riding the town "strip."

It was actually a Thursday night, I believe. Most folks were in home in bed by this hour, especially in small town Missouri.

I agree with CRicci, I mean under Thissuat's theory, which again like in the Burkett case is possible but not very plausiable if that makes sense, Rob would have to have purposely thrown out his transmission, than somehow got his car to where it was eventually found on the street in Clinton. I think you are giving way too much credit to a then 18 year old, I just have a hard time believing that an 18 year old could come up with such an elaborate theory.

Well, that is assuming the offender lived in the area that the truck would be easily found, my theory is that while the offender was familiar with the area, that he was not living in the area at that time of the abduction that he either lived in Arkansas or Kansas or a different part of Missouri and simply traveled to this area because he had some past connection to it, such as having lived or worked in the area in the past, etc.

I dont find it particularly unusual that Rob didnt call the police right when Angie screamed, I mean, he did the first thing that popped into his head, which was go rescue her, he didnt exactly have time to stop and think "gee should I go rescue Angie or should I call the police first?"

Third: Why didn't Rob simply call the police instead of trying to handle it himself? Or at least, why didn't he call 911 before he headed out himself? This seems the most logical."

I agree with CRicci's response and would add the following two points.

1. Distance: Rob was only a few blocks away at this point, so he probably felt he had a good shot at finding her. Additionally, it is not know whether his little brothe rpicked up on an emergency situation taking place and him calling 911.

2. Protection: Natural instinct for a man to protect their woman.

Someone said this happened on a weeknight, and if so, then perhaps there wasn't many people out and about. At any rate, the truck should have been spotted in the days/weeks prior to this event if the perpetrator lived anywhere in the area. Since no one ever spotted this truck nor knew anyone who drove one like it we are left with two scenarios:

1) Angela was abducted by a transient serial killer who just happened upon that small town and just happened upon her at a phone booth with no one in town seeing his truck that night (and remember a serial killer would need a lot of time to find a victim at the right spot, so it is likely someone would have seen him earlier).

Angela did notice the truck before, circling the supermarket several times. that no one saw it isn't suspicious to me: the abductor made certain no one was around.

When I die, I'd love to know the answers to all these cases. I think I would be saying quite a few "told ya so's." Bobby Heenan and Mr. Perfect after Ric Flair wins the 1992 Royal Rumble: "We're not the kind of guys to say we told you so, but we....told ya so".

Another problem I have, as others have said, is the amount of detail Rob gave the police about the suspect's truck.

It's always hard to provide generalizations about what someone should or should not have done in these situations since different people react in different ways. However, I do find it odd that Angela just sat there on the phone while this long haired, ragged man drove around in an old pickup truck at almost midnight and then parked next to her car. I also find it odd that she would give this much detail about the man to Rob. Why not simply tell Rob "I am outta here, there is a guy pulling up, I will call you later and fill you in." From what I can tell she and Rob were just chit chatting anyway, so it isn't like their conversation couldn't wait until later.

Think about it, if you are seriously afraid for your safety, would you sit there by yourself and tell your friend on the phone "He is in a green truck with a fish decal and he is wearing overalls and glasses and has long hair." I mean why not just leave? If a guy walks up to me at an ATM machine at night and has his hand in his coat like he's reaching for a weapon, I am not going to sit there on my cell phone telling a friend what he looks like, what he's wearing etc.

As someone else said, by Angela providing so much detail to Rob implies that she knew she was about to get mugged or kidnapped. It's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy. I find it illogical for her to essentially tell Rob "I am about to be abducted, so when I am, you will know who did it." Of course she didn't say this directly, but this is what Rob implies.

Unlike the Burkett case, Rob's account isn't just filled with holes, so as I said earlier, I am 60/40 on this one.

I find it very plausible a serial killer was at work here, for the reasons I stated in my post above, it's just I am not convinced of it. Unfortunately, there are probably more serial killers out there than we will ever know. A good example is this scum bag named Hilton who recently killed and then decapitated that woman in GA and decapitated another one in FL and possibly two more in NC. This guy is around 60 years old, and I find it unlikely these are his first murders. There are probably numerous guys out there like him, who either never were caught, had someone else convicted of their crime, or got put in prison for something else. Angela could very well have been a victim of such a man.

Another problem I have, as others have said, is the amount of detail Rob gave the police about the suspect's truck.

It's always hard to provide generalizations about what someone should or should not have done in these situations since different people react in different ways. However, I do find it odd that Angela just sat there on the phone while this long haired, ragged man drove around in an old pickup truck at almost midnight and then parked next to her car. I also find it odd that she would give this much detail about the man to Rob. Why not simply tell Rob "I am outta here, there is a guy pulling up, I will call you later and fill you in." From what I can tell she and Rob were just chit chatting anyway, so it isn't like their conversation couldn't wait until later.

Think about it, if you are seriously afraid for your safety, would you sit there by yourself and tell your friend on the phone "He is in a green truck with a fish decal and he is wearing overalls and glasses and has long hair." I mean why not just leave? If a guy walks up to me at an ATM machine at night and has his hand in his coat like he's reaching for a weapon, I am not going to sit there on my cell phone telling a friend what he looks like, what he's wearing etc.

As someone else said, by Angela providing so much detail to Rob implies that she knew she was about to get mugged or kidnapped. It's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy. I find it illogical for her to essentially tell Rob "I am about to be abducted, so when I am, you will know who did it." Of course she didn't say this directly, but this is what Rob implies.

Unlike the Burkett case, Rob's account isn't just filled with holes, so as I said earlier, I am 60/40 on this one.

I find it very plausible a serial killer was at work here, for the reasons I stated in my post above, it's just I am not convinced of it. Unfortunately, there are probably more serial killers out there than we will ever know. A good example is this scum bag named Hilton who recently killed and then decapitated that woman in GA and decapitated another one in FL and possibly two more in NC. This guy is around 60 years old, and I find it unlikely these are his first murders. There are probably numerous guys out there like him, who either never were caught, had someone else convicted of their crime, or got put in prison for something else. Angela could very well have been a victim of such a man.

The segment depicts Rob asking Angela about the man/truck, as opposed to Angela volunteering the information. Which makes all the difference in the world: it basically means Rob was concerned but Angela wasn't. I'm betting Angela figured since that this was a small town, that nothing would happen. unfortunately, we all know what happened.

You forgot the most important bit- Whooooooo!!!!!


When I die, I'd love to know the answers to all these cases. I think I would be saying quite a few "told ya so's." Bobby Heenan and Mr. Perfect after Ric Flair wins the 1992 Royal Rumble: "We're not the kind of guys to say we told you so, but we....told ya so".

The segment depicts Rob asking Angela about the man/truck, as opposed to Angela volunteering the information. Which makes all the difference in the world: it basically means Rob was concerned but Angela wasn't.

But if Rob was concerned, why did he waste his time with obtaining such a detailed description of the man? Why didn't he simply tell her to get in her car and leave?

It is kinda like the Carson Prince Case, in that so many people saw the abductors truck during the said crime and after, i think Stephen Tallys gf/wife whatever she was to him said she always suspected him of the crime but never the proof

Alot of people saw his truck but never put it together with Carsons Princes Case. So it could be similar in that way to the Angela Hammond Case

Wow, Thissuat, yet another low, now you accuse Rob Schafer of not caring about Angela, because he asked too many questions? Wouldnt that mean he did care if he asked a lot of questions? Rob just cant win with you can he?

First you were beating up on him because he ran out of the house too quickly and didnt call the police and now you are beating up on him because he asked too many questions about the man's appearance and type of truck he was driving.

Also Thissuat, you are overly simplistic in your opinion, I mean I cannot imagine anyone, even in today's world saying such a thing as "I am outta here, some strange guy is driving around, I will fill you in later" that just doesnt make any sense to me I guess.

You must remember, this was 1991, small town Missouri, despite the fact that Angela was a little creeped out by this guy, she probably just thought he was a little creepy and that was all, obviously if she would have felt that uncomfortable to where he would have done something, surely she would have left. But I am sure the last thing in Angela's mind was that this guy was actually going to abduct her.

if this indeed happened exactly the way the story was told.......then it's easy for us in retrospect to be critical of the story. I mean I would of called 911, told my girlfriend to go home, ect. If this happened as rob said it did, he didn't have too much time to make these types of decision. I don't see nothing wrong with his story or his actions thereof. that doesn't mean it couldn't be fabricated. He should of had a good description of the truck based on his conversation on the phone, and the fact that he was able to follow the truck. I tend to believe rob is innocent based on his solid story and the police haven't found any evidence to incriminate him.....other than a somewhat questionable story. Guilty people tend to have trouble in that regard.
If it were a serial killer this obviously was a random act. Not all killers plan everything out days on end. many of them act randomly when the opportunity presents itself. maybe the killer saw the girl from the road, and did his planning from then on. like others said it's very possible he had some familiarity with the area. maybe being there once before helped him.

people react differently to situations. If he would of dialed 911 as the killer sped off with angela, people could of questioned that. why dial 911 when a town may not have the service or be able to respond in a timely manner....when you can get there much faster? MAYBE it could have eliminated him as a suspect, but it wouldn't of necessarily helped him save his girlfriend or find the killer. it's easy to be critical in retrospect. and like LooksLikeCRicci said about the town maybe not having 911 service. there are many small towns in rural areas that don't have police depts. they rely soley on sheriffs who may or may not be in the area. while 911 is an instinct for most of us, in rural areas it may be a better choice to handle your own business. I lived in a small town in texas when I was a kid. My grandmother lived on a farm. they had their own guns. Their neighbor down the street actually had a sign posted on their fence saying, "We don't dial 911." In fact I rarely remember seeing law enforcement near my grandmothers house.

From The Kansas City Star October 4, 1991

Edition: METROPOLITAN
Section: NATIONAL/WORLD
Page: A1

Quote from the article:

"Two witnesses told police they saw a white man with a mustache wearing a dark-colored baseball-style cap sitting in the truck near the telephone booth Hammond was using. The witnesses' description is similar to one Hammond gave her fiance moments before the line went dead."

Was this mentioned on the UM segment? I don't recall there being any witnesses, but if this is true, then it does change my opinion.

Link to article: http://officialcoldcaseinvestigations.com/showthread.php?t=759

Well, does there need to be an explaination as to why she called? They were teenagers, it is called "chit-chat." They were in a serious relationship, I am sure Angela wasnt thinking gee I need this or I need that so I will call up Rob.

She probably stopped at the payphones, again, this was 1991 not 2007 so unless you were rich, you didnt have a cell phone, she probably just wanted to talk to Rob, it was probably just casual chit chatter like how people shoot off casual e-mails now, they would do that on the phone back then, I am not really sure why you find things that arent unusual, so unusual.

Hmmm. If you go to the link I provided in the post above, you will find someone there is posting old newspapaer articles from the area near where Angela disappeared. However, several of the articles conflict one another greatly in detail. Here is an example:

One article says:

"Before she disappeared late Thursday, Angela M. Hammond got off work and called her boyfriend from a pay telephone in an empty supermarket parking lot in Clinton, Mo."

This implies Angela called Rob immediately after getting off work.

Now, a newspaper article written only one day after the above said this:

"Hammond usually worked nights at a Clinton bank but did not work the night she disappeared. Hammond's best friend, Kyla Engeman, said she and Hammond had been cruising the town square when they split up about 11:15 p.m. Hammond, who did not have a telephone, stopped by the parking lot booth to call Shafer."

The second article seems more in line with the scenario UM presented. This is why I remembered hearing something about kids riding the town strip. It turns out Angela and her friend were doing just that.

But, as you can see, the first article says Angela was at work all night and had just gotten off shortly before calling Rob. Which is it? Did she work and then go riding with her friend? Was one of the articles simply mistaken? Both articles were from the same newspaper, The Kansas City Star.

One article mentions that Angela did not have a phone. Since this was '91, I assume this means she didn't have a home phone. This explains why she would call Rob while being just a few blocks from his house. OK, I am satisfied with this explanation. However, I still want more info on the "two witnesses" who saw that green truck.

Well Thissaut, newspapers and the media do make mistakes, they get details wrong, sometimes on purpose, sometimes by accident, it happens. Indeed Rob's story is a mostly credible one, I didnt say for sure he didnt do it, I said the way the story is presented and the evidence or lack of it shows he didnt do it and I dont think he would have ever convicted if taken to trial based on what they had, or in this case didnt have.

There was simply really nothing other than innuendo, mostly from people who just want someone, anyone to pay for what happened and they dont care who it has to be. If in fact there was this speeding chase, unless you were right behind the truck, following it as Rob claimed to be, you wouldnt get a good description, especially at night, even though this chase supposedly happened downtown where there would have been streetlights.

If Rob wasnt able to recall countless details, it was probably because he was thinking more about how to rescue Angela than thinking about, "gee, is that tail light burned out? Is this a Ford or Chevy? Is this truck a 1960's or 1970's model? Is that license plate Missouri or Kansas?"

Wow guys, I'm happy this got responses. I, myself believe that Rob is innocent, but I just found myself questioning certain elements in the story. I can vouch for the fact that it's too easy at times to ruin a transmission; my husband was driving his camaro barely a mile with the emergency brake on (he didn't know) and it ruined the transmission. It seems Poor Rob just had seriously sh*tty luck.
I'm going to have to read that article with the 2 witnesses, very interesting. UM didn't mention this.

You forgot the most important bit- Whooooooo!!!!!

ah yes! I liked that Flair, Perfect and Heenan all did a big one together. Whoooooo!:lol:

But if Rob was concerned, why did he waste his time with obtaining such a detailed description of the man? Why didn't he simply tell her to get in her car and leave?

I'm sure if Rob had it his way, Angela would have got in the car and drove away. But Angela does several things to display that she's not worried: such as telling Rob "Oh Rob, I'm sure it's nothing." She had rationalized that he was probably not from the area and was just lost or something. After all, it does seem like an unlikely place to get kidnapped.

Wow guys, I'm happy this got responses. I, myself believe that Rob is innocent, but I just found myself questioning certain elements in the story. I can vouch for the fact that it's too easy at times to ruin a transmission; my husband was driving his camaro barely a mile with the emergency brake on (he didn't know) and it ruined the transmission. It seems Poor Rob just had seriously sh*tty luck.
I'm going to have to read that article with the 2 witnesses, very interesting. UM didn't mention this.
You need to look up our old thread on Angela Hammond. I beleive through the investigating of people on this site we have Angela's killers and they are the same men that were found guilty of Trudy Darby's murder. I finally wrapped up all of my searching for evidence to prove our theory and am going to submit everything to the Henry county Sheriff and ask that the case be re-opened. Those of you who are new here really need to check out our old thread on this case as it cleary shows Rob was innocent and gives us our suspects. http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=143239&highlight=angela+hammond

There's no evidence to point towards the boyfriend, and I think some of our posters' imaginations are running a little wild. Not every UM case has some crazy twist to them, and the Angela Hammond case is just that; A clear-cut case of someone being abducted by a complete stranger.
The only people who would think Rob had anything to do with this simply don't have all the information. In order to pull this off he would have to have several people lying for him including Angela's best friend.

Found something new here. This comes from transcripts of Marvin Chaney's appeal which was filed in 2006. It looks like the prosecutors knew full well that he was involved in at least 3 other murders of women. It also looks as if they used this information to force him into a guilty plea in the murder of Trudy Darby. Check this out FN3 clearly states there was physical evidence linking him to several other murders.


FN1. All rule references are to Missouri Court Rules (2006) and all statutory references are to RSMo 2000.

FN2. See North Carolina v. Alford, 400 U.S. 25 (1970). Movant's Alford plea was entered based on a plea agreement with the State of Missouri ("the State"). It appears from the record that in exchange for Movant's Alford plea to the two counts detailed above, the State agreed to request life imprisonment without parole for Movant as opposed to the death penalty.

Due to the nature of Movant's claims, there is no need to recite the facts relating to his underlying conviction.

FN3. Mr. Berrigan testified the State had previously approached him with physical evidence that Movant had been involved in the murders of several other women. Mr. Berrigan further testified the State's previous plea offers required Movant "to confess to the murders of these [three] other women . . ." in order to avoid the death penalty. The plea offer made the evening prior to trial was the first plea offer that did not reference these other possible crimes.

Separate Opinion:
None

I have been looking for information on this case for a long time and just came across your site. I read through the old thread and this new one and its amazing what you have come up with. At the time of the u/m show they thought that Angela's kidnapping was related to the kidnapping of Kenney and the murder of Trudy Darby. Darby's killers were caught, one of them (Jess Rush) wrote letters to another inmate in which he stated they had killed other women. Now we see that when it comes to the other person charged in her murder (Marvin Chaney) the prosecution had actual evidence that he killed several other women and simply let it go in exchange for his guilty plea.

I think the Camedon County Prosecutors know that both Chaney and Rush are guilty of other murders including that of Angela Hammond but for some reason are satisfied that they have the killers off the street rather than bringing them to trial again.

Kane7474, got your pm--so you are thinking that the guys discussed above are the culprits as they have said they've killed other women? Any proof it could have been Angela? Has anyone went to authorities with this info, or is it generally believed they probably already know just can't or won't do anything about it?

Kane7474, got your pm--so you are thinking that the guys discussed above are the culprits as they have said they've killed other women? Any proof it could have been Angela? Has anyone went to authorities with this info, or is it generally believed they probably already know just can't or won't do anything about it?

Here's what I think and why.
The murder of Trudy Darby and the dissapearances of Angela Hammond and Cheryl Kenney are related. They happened within 11 months of one another and they shared similar circumstances. All were women taken at night in an area with no witnesses. I beileve the murders stopped with Angela because the perpatraitors were almost caught. I think they either stopped the abductions at that point or waited over a year before doing it again.

Now, that being said we have two men serving life sentences for the rape and murder of Trudy Darby. One of those men (Jess Rush) admitted to not only raping and murdering Darby but also wrote about killing other women. He even went so far as to state that if they only would have disposed of Darby the way they did the others they never would have been caught. This makes sense because only Darby's body was found.

Further, in 2006 Marvin Chaney tried to appeal his sentence of life in prisonment by stating that he didn't fully understand his plea agreement when he was convicted. In that appeal lays statements that the prosecution had physical evidence linking Chaney to three other murders of women. It is also revealed that in the original plea agreement Chaney was suppose to admit his guilt to all of the murders in order to aviod the death penalty. For unknown reasons the original plea agreement was altered and Chaney only had to plead guilty to the Darby murder. I have not yet uncovered who the other three women he murdered were but we do know of several others that went missing in the same general time period and same general area.

It is my belief that the original plea agreement was changed as part of a backroom deal between Chaney's lawyers and the prosecution. I think they realized that letting a man that was guilty of these terrible pre-meditated murders avoid the death penalty would cause alot of public outcry not to mention the Missouri Supreme court would be reviewing this case and questioning this obvious light sentence for such terrible crimes. Therfore they simply took the other murders off the table. Also, the trials of both men had to be very expensive as both have dragged on for over 10 years with different motions and appeals. Imagine what the cost would be if they had to go through this four more times. If they decided now to charge these men with the other murders spoken of they would obviously plead not guilty as they would have nothing to lose. This would cost the state an ungodly amount of money and I think thats why its being left to rest. Sadly I think they just settled for having the killers off the street, as someone stated earlier. What bothers me the most however is that more people took part in atleast the Darby murder then were ever charged. Jess Rush named several other accomplices in his letters and these men never stood trial and are free to this day.

My hope is that by reveiling this information to the Henry County Sherrif they will open a new investigation and and find enough evidence to prosecute Chaney and Rush. I beileve that if pushed one of these men would rat out the other and we may find out exactly what happened to Angela Hammond, Cheryl Kenney and whomever else these men murdered.

Wow! I'm speechless! Great sleuthing! I only hope this is true and that we can eventually know what happened to Angela!

It doesn't seem that the prosecutors office is too willing to look into this case again. As I had said before, they already know the truth and want to avoid public reaction. However, with UM coming back on television we have a shot of breaking this one wide open. Im hoping they will be eager to update this case and will feature they new information that has been uncovered. There is not a doubt in my mind that if they will feature this case with the new evidence we will solve this one.

The one thing Rob does have going for him is that her body was never found. This fact alone sort of points to the fact that she was probably transported a good distance away (perhaps outside of the jurisdiction of any investigating police force). I doubt a 17-18 year old guy would be "saavy" enough to dispose of her body without a trace. Again, this fact points to her body being transported a good distance away and being disposed of by someone experienced in doing just that.

I think this should put to bed forever the "Rob did it" theory. We're talking about a high school kid, who, if he committed murder, would probably be doing so out of passion and anger rather than for sexual gratification. In any event, there is no way he was a practiced killer at the time of Angela's disappearance. This makes it infinitely less likely he would have been sophisticated enough to hide her body so well it wold never be found. Moreover, for him to have done it, he would have had to work within a very narrow time frame - from the time Angela split up with her friend to the time he called the police. That wouldn't leave him all kinds of time to hide her body, or destroy it. If he had done it, she would have been found in the intervening 20 years.

I agree with the poster who suggested we've let our imaginations run away with us. It's curious to me that this case continues to generate such discussion; it always seemed "open and shut" to me that Angela was kidnapped by a sexual predator. Until her body is found, a precise identification of the killer is unlikely, without a detailed confession. I've never seen all that much to discuss...

It doesn't seem that the prosecutors office is too willing to look into this case again. As I had said before, they already know the truth and want to avoid public reaction. However, with UM coming back on television we have a shot of breaking this one wide open. Im hoping they will be eager to update this case and will feature they new information that has been uncovered. There is not a doubt in my mind that if they will feature this case with the new evidence we will solve this one.

Your theory sounds very plausible, kane7474, but until a body appears or a confession is made, I doubt it will ever be provable beyond a resonable doubt. I'm certain it was SOME sexual predator, and your suggestion seems to have a decent degree of likelihood. Unfortunately, it's hard for me to see how this will ever finally be solved.

I agree without a body or a confession it would be hard to solve this one. However the more evidence you can through in the faces of the accused or their accomplices, the more likely you are to obtain that confession. The body would be long gone by now and would be of no use unless of course it were found buried on the property of the accused. Someone besides the kidnapper knows what happened to Angela and that person or persons need to be given the motivation to come forward.

How could this case be solved? Here's my thoughts. We need the FBI to start investigating again, they need to focus on Chaney and Rush as the suspects and try to find anything that would rule them out. A federal agency like the FBI could demand that the Camden County Prosecutors office release to them whatever the physical evidence is they have linking Chaney to other murders.

Then they go to the accomplices in Trudy Darby's murder that Jess Rush named in his letters. Each of these men should be arrested and held for questioning. I beleive that if any of them were also involved with Angela's disappearance they would crack and spill the beans for a lighter sentence. The same could be said for both Chaney and Rush, even though they are both in prison for life one of them might be willing to talk to avoid a death sentence.

This is how a murder is solved when you have no body. You must piece together as much evidence as possible to name a suspect and then try to rule him out. We know Chaney kidnapped and killed atleast one other woman in the same general area and within three months of Angela's kidnapping. We know he matches the description that witnesses gave of the man in the truck. We know that prosecutors have evidence that he was involved with other unsolved murders. Laslty in all the years since this happened we have no other suspects. I know the possibility exsists that it could be a totally different person and if it was we will almost surely never find out what happened but In my opinion, based on everything Ive seen, this case is solvable and with the right approach (as descrbed above) it will be finally put to rest.

I agree with CRicci's response and would add the following two points.

1. Distance: Rob was only a few blocks away at this point, so he probably felt he had a good shot at finding her. Additionally, it is not know whether his little brothe rpicked up on an emergency situation taking place and him calling 911.

2. Protection: Natural instinct for a man to protect their woman.


I am new to this board, but I actually knew Angie Hammond and found this message board through a search of her name. I lived in Clinton at the time and was part of the crowd who watched Unsolved Mysteries film this episode.

I don't know what really happened, but there were a lot of rumors floating back then about Rob's mother having had something done to Angie. Rumor had it (and I know this would never stand up in court) that Angie was pregnant and going back and forth between Rob and another guy. Rumor also had it that Rob's mother had some connections with some not so nice people and that she was the one who made Angie disappear. A lot of things happened that were never made public in the case. I did know a cop at the time who worked the case, but he just told us what the latest rumor was they were checking out. There was even talk about money disappearing from the bank she worked at. All rumors and nothing substantial.

Also, as far as Rob not calling the police. For one, we didn't get 911 service in Clinton until around 93 or 94. But, the police station was only three blocks from where Angela was taken and he was several blocks further away. What I have never understood is why she supposedly used that particular phone booth. The way it was set up was there were two phone booths there on that corner by the stop lights. Sometimes they worked, most times they didn't. There was an all night gas station just a block up the street and they had a pay phone. Personally, I would have used that one.

Also, you don't understand how the Clinton square is when you say it was Thursday and no one was out. Back then, you could go to the Clinton square and there would be quite a few people up there till 2 or 3 in the morning. I've spent many a night there until that late myself. So I just can't imagine that someone didn't drive by and see something if that is what really happened. There was always someone driving around and the phone booth was only two blocks from the square.

There have been supposed sightings of her over the years and I have wondered if she didn't just take off. She was a pretty wild person and I really wouldn't have put it past her. She didn't have a lot of friends because of some of her actions. Until she disappeared anyway. Then everyone was her friend. I'm afraid that whatever happened to Angela Hammond may always be a mystery. Around this area, the only poster you see anymore is at Wal-Mart and they used to have one hanging on the door of the insurance agency her mother was working for. No idea if she's still there or not or if there is a sign still up. I moved 15 miles north of Clinton a few years ago and don't really go to Clinton anymore. As far as I know, no one talks about it anymore.

I am new to this board, but I actually knew Angie Hammond and found this message board through a search of her name. I lived in Clinton at the time and was part of the crowd who watched Unsolved Mysteries film this episode.

I don't know what really happened, but there were a lot of rumors floating back then about Rob's mother having had something done to Angie. Rumor had it (and I know this would never stand up in court) that Angie was pregnant and going back and forth between Rob and another guy. Rumor also had it that Rob's mother had some connections with some not so nice people and that she was the one who made Angie disappear. A lot of things happened that were never made public in the case. I did know a cop at the time who worked the case, but he just told us what the latest rumor was they were checking out. There was even talk about money disappearing from the bank she worked at. All rumors and nothing substantial.

Also, as far as Rob not calling the police. For one, we didn't get 911 service in Clinton until around 93 or 94. But, the police station was only three blocks from where Angela was taken and he was several blocks further away. What I have never understood is why she supposedly used that particular phone booth. The way it was set up was there were two phone booths there on that corner by the stop lights. Sometimes they worked, most times they didn't. There was an all night gas station just a block up the street and they had a pay phone. Personally, I would have used that one.

Also, you don't understand how the Clinton square is when you say it was Thursday and no one was out. Back then, you could go to the Clinton square and there would be quite a few people up there till 2 or 3 in the morning. I've spent many a night there until that late myself. So I just can't imagine that someone didn't drive by and see something if that is what really happened. There was always someone driving around and the phone booth was only two blocks from the square.

There have been supposed sightings of her over the years and I have wondered if she didn't just take off. She was a pretty wild person and I really wouldn't have put it past her. She didn't have a lot of friends because of some of her actions. Until she disappeared anyway. Then everyone was her friend. I'm afraid that whatever happened to Angela Hammond may always be a mystery. Around this area, the only poster you see anymore is at Wal-Mart and they used to have one hanging on the door of the insurance agency her mother was working for. No idea if she's still there or not or if there is a sign still up. I moved 15 miles north of Clinton a few years ago and don't really go to Clinton anymore. As far as I know, no one talks about it anymore.

thanks for posting, hfleagle. It's always great to hear from someone with more knowledge on the subject.

I have a couple questions for you, if you don't mind. Did you know Rob, and if so, what did you think of him. I personally don't feel he was involved, although since he was involved with Angela at the time, he is naturally going to be considered a suspect. Also, did you know the other guy Angela was seeing? thanks.

I find this case strange too.
First the phone call that if I remember correct they agreed she call him. Why would she call him from phone booth 5 minutes after she drove him home..Why did they agree on that...sounds strange to me.
Why would a killer attack someone on the phone ? That would be a very risky act especially for an abduction. And espesially when you know the other part is watching you while talking on the phone. A killer would probably atleast wait for the phone to hang up or he would sneak himself up to the phone without being seen.
And here comes maybe the strangest part. An abductor would probably not keep the victim fully alive in the front seat of the car. The abductor would probably neutralise the victim not letting her scream and wave around. The only witness to this was Rob.
Rob did get a phone call but not from Angela he then acted so that the young boy could be an alibi and witness to the call. Rob then jumped in the car (without calling the police first) to be a witness again this time he saw the abdutor, Angela and car himself. Too much witness if you ask me... strange how Rob is the only witness all the time.
If Rob killed Angela Hammond she was killed before she alleged drove him home. Meaning he had to drive the car to the phone booth. Maybe he drove her car to the phone booth himself and had a car standing in the town with bad transmission. Maybe that explain why she drove to that party and not him. That the car with bad transmission had been standing in the area for a while. Only speculations..
I'm 70/30 % in favor that Rob had something to do with Angela's disappearance. If she was killed by Rob ..Angela is probably buried somewhere between the party and Robs house.
Is there any witness to Angela driving Rob home. Did anybody see Rob get off Angela's car then see her drive away. This is the key to solving this case. My guess is that Angela's car was there all the time while Rob was inside pretending babysitting. My guess is that Rob also did make a phone call from inside the house to the person who called from the phone booth. Another key for solving this case.

I find this case strange too.
First the phone call that if I remember correct they agreed she call him. Why would she call him from a pay phone 5 minutes after she drove him home..Why did they agree on that...sounds strange to me.
Why would a killer attack someone on the phone ? That would be a very risky act especially for an abduction. And espesially when you know the other part is watching you while talking on the phone. A killer would probably atleast wait for the phone to hang up or he would sneak himself up to the phone without being seen.
And here comes maybe the strangest part. An abductor would probably not keep the victim fully alive in the front seat of the car. The abductor would probably neutralise the victim not letting her scream and wave around. The only witness to this was Rob.
Rob did get a phone call but not from Angela he then acted so that the young boy could be an alibi and witness to the call. Rob then jumped in the car (without calling the police first) to be a witness again this time he saw the abdutor, Angela and car himself. Too much witness if you ask me... strange how Rob is the only witness all the time.
If Rob killed Angela Hammond she was killed before she alleged drove him home. Meaning he had to drive the car to the pay phone. Maybe he drove her car to the pay phone himself and had a car standing in the town with bad transmission. Maybe that explain why she drove to that party and not him. That the car with bad transmission had been standing in the area for a while. Only speculations..
I'm 70/30 % in favor that Rob had something to do with Angela's disappearance. If she was killed by Rob ..Angela is probably buried somewhere between the party and Robs house.
Is there any witness to Angela driving Rob home. Did anybody see Rob get off Angela's car then see her drive away. This is the key to solving this case. My guess is that Angela's car was there all the time while Rob was inside pretending babysitting. My guess is that Rob also did make a phone call from inside the house to the person who called from the pay phone. Another key

Phone records don't confuse who made and who placed a call. I'm sure phone records were checked, and showed that somebody called from that phone booth to Rob's house.

I alos wonder why people are so suspiscious of Rob's transmission story. If you don't believe him, try gunning your car up to 50MPH or so, then hitting the breaks and throwing it into reverse at the same time. Then throw it back into drive. I guarantee you'll need a new transmission when you're done.

Phone records don't confuse who made and who placed a call. I'm sure phone records were checked, and showed that somebody called from that phone booth to Rob's house.

I alos wonder why people are so suspiscious of Rob's transmission story. If you don't believe him, try gunning your car up to 50MPH or so, then hitting the breaks and throwing it into reverse at the same time. Then throw it back into drive. I guarantee you'll need a new transmission when you're done.
I did not mean that nobody called from the phone booth. What I meant was that Rob called somebody first from his home to make somebody make the call. Maybe someone in his family. And I think that the call Rob made first (if he did) is key to solving this case.
That transmission story just seems like very bad luck (too bad luck ?). I mean at the most important moment in your life this happens. Of course it's possible but seems to good to be true. And when you add the story about Angela being a loose canon in the front seat screaming and kicking while the alleged abductor is driving. With no witnesses in the middle of a small city :eyes2: This have to be the most strange and unbelievable moment in crime history.
I would probably hit the brakes, then when the car has nearly stopped turn it around. Not try to put it in reverse and backup after a car. Was it a mistake to put it in reverse or did he just do it too early ? Did he actually try to backup after the car ? Was it automatic or manually transmission ?

I find this case strange too.
First the phone call that if I remember correct they agreed she call him. Why would she call him from phone booth 5 minutes after she drove him home..Why did they agree on that...sounds strange to me.
Why would a killer attack someone on the phone ? That would be a very risky act especially for an abduction. And espesially when you know the other part is watching you while talking on the phone. A killer would probably atleast wait for the phone to hang up or he would sneak himself up to the phone without being seen.
And here comes maybe the strangest part. An abductor would probably not keep the victim fully alive in the front seat of the car. The abductor would probably neutralise the victim not letting her scream and wave around. The only witness to this was Rob.
Rob did get a phone call but not from Angela he then acted so that the young boy could be an alibi and witness to the call. Rob then jumped in the car (without calling the police first) to be a witness again this time he saw the abdutor, Angela and car himself. Too much witness if you ask me... strange how Rob is the only witness all the time.
If Rob killed Angela Hammond she was killed before she alleged drove him home. Meaning he had to drive the car to the phone booth. Maybe he drove her car to the phone booth himself and had a car standing in the town with bad transmission. Maybe that explain why she drove to that party and not him. That the car with bad transmission had been standing in the area for a while. Only speculations..
I'm 70/30 % in favor that Rob had something to do with Angela's disappearance. If she was killed by Rob ..Angela is probably buried somewhere between the party and Robs house.
Is there any witness to Angela driving Rob home. Did anybody see Rob get off Angela's car then see her drive away. This is the key to solving this case. My guess is that Angela's car was there all the time while Rob was inside pretending babysitting. My guess is that Rob also did make a phone call from inside the house to the person who called from the phone booth. Another key for solving this case.

I don't remember right off hand which article it was in but I do remember reading that there were other people that saw the truck that Rob described. Also you have it wrong when you say she dropped him off and then called him 5 minutes later. There was more like a two or three hour gap in there. Keep in mind that Rob was cleared by both the local authorities and the FBI. If you look at our other Angela Hammond thread on here I think you will see that it would have been nearly impossible for Rob to have done this.
I really hope the person from Clinton comes back on here as I think people like this could answer the questions that we are left with.

thanks for posting, hfleagle. It's always great to hear from someone with more knowledge on the subject.

I have a couple questions for you, if you don't mind. Did you know Rob, and if so, what did you think of him. I personally don't feel he was involved, although since he was involved with Angela at the time, he is naturally going to be considered a suspect. Also, did you know the other guy Angela was seeing? thanks.

I did know Rob. Not well, but enough to say hi to him if I saw him. He seemed like a good enough guy, but he and Angie had some problems as they fought a lot. They were more friends of my ex-husband than myself, but I remember a few nights being up on the square when they were on opposite sides and were sending people back and forth to tell the other one things. I honestly didn't get along with Angela well. There was an incident between her and my ex and we never saw eye to eye after it happened. I did know the other guy she was seeing, but also not well. I can't even remember his name off the top of my head.

Phone records don't confuse who made and who placed a call. I'm sure phone records were checked, and showed that somebody called from that phone booth to Rob's house.

I alos wonder why people are so suspiscious of Rob's transmission story. If you don't believe him, try gunning your car up to 50MPH or so, then hitting the breaks and throwing it into reverse at the same time. Then throw it back into drive. I guarantee you'll need a new transmission when you're done.

I hate to say this, but I don't know that the Clinton police would have been smart enough to check phone records. You have to understand that this is a smallish town with little to no experience in this kind of thing. Basically, if I were to disappear and the Clinton police were on the case, I would be trying to find a way to get away from my kidnapper myself and not rely on them. They are kind of a keystone cops type of police department. We had the detective who handled Angela's case handle a burglary case we had. They knew who stole our things and they even found those things in the person's possession, but there was never an arrest made. We ended up going to the police department after a few months and asking to have our things back since they were obviously not going to do anything about the situation. So that tells you what kind of operation we were dealing with. I don't know if the police there are any better these days as I don't live there anymore, but they weren't much of a police department back then. Not when you had policemen beating people up and only being suspended with pay while it was investigated and being put back on patrol without any kind of punishment. There was a policeman who got in trouble for smoking pot in his patrol car and he still works for them. I still have family members who live in Clinton, but we don't go there too often these days so I'm really not sure how the department is run now and can only speak for how it was ran back then.

I don't remember right off hand which article it was in but I do remember reading that there were other people that saw the truck that Rob described. Also you have it wrong when you say she dropped him off and then called him 5 minutes later. There was more like a two or three hour gap in there. Keep in mind that Rob was cleared by both the local authorities and the FBI. If you look at our other Angela Hammond thread on here I think you will see that it would have been nearly impossible for Rob to have done this.
I really hope the person from Clinton comes back on here as I think people like this could answer the questions that we are left with.

I was the one who was from Clinton. I don't know what I can answer, but I have it set up now to where I will get an email saying there has been a reply if there is anything I can answer.

Don't know as I ever thought Rob was suspicious, but if events happened the way he told them, Angela had very little survival instinct. Even if someone stopped at a pay phone, wouldn't they immediately leave when they saw the pickup truck circling--BEFORE it stopped and the creepy guy got out? I know I'd be in my car with the doors locked before the creep had a chance to park!

Could phone records be found to verify the pay phone call was made?

I was the one who was from Clinton. I don't know what I can answer, but I have it set up now to where I will get an email saying there has been a reply if there is anything I can answer. First off as I had stated in a post on this subject last year, I know a guy that was a Henry County Deputy at the time Angela went missing. He said the exact same things that you are saying about the investigators being incompetent. He told me that they thought Rob had done it right off the bat. Instead of pursuing finding the truck that was described by Rob they took volunteers and went out into fields looking for a body. By the time they realized Rob's story checked out the real abductors where long gone.

As far as phone records go, there where no phone records kept by the phone company in 1991. You would have to pay to have a trace put on your line if someone was making harrassing phone calls to you and I don't think caller ID was even out yet.

Now my questions for you, while I realize you may not be able to answer any of these its always worth a shot.

1. Do you know how long it was from the time she dissappeard until the FBI got involved?
2. Do you know if anyone else actually saw the truck Rob described? I have seen news reports that other people had seen it but then others say that only Rob saw the truck.
3. Do you know exactly how Rob got to the police station that night? Did he run there, did he call from a payphone, did he go to someone's house and have them drive him?
4. Do you know who the friend was that Angela was hanging out with between the time she dropped Rob off and making the phone call to him?
5. I know they had pictures of Angela put up all over town but did you ever see pictures or drawings of the truck she was kidnapped in?

Thats all I can think of right now, Im sure I can come up with more after I do some review, thanks for coming in here and sharing what you know with us.

First, the transmission story is the big red flag. If he did damage the transmission by throwing the car in reverse, I am skeptical as to whether it would run at all. And why would it decide to go out after "making a right turn?" I doubt the turn would have anything to do with the transmission. Just a very suspicious story. I think it is likely that IF Rob did it, he used the car chase as an alibi while he disposed of her body and then claimed that his transmission just happened to go out and the suspect got away. So convenient. But this is a big if. I am not convinced Rob did it.



One of my cars's tranny messed up about 10 years ago. For some reason, it wouldn't go into reverse, but I was able to drive forward, turn, etc. The reverse band broke in it. Very expensive repair as I recall. The tranny does control the shifting of the car, but it's the engine that powers it.

I believe Rob is innocent. His description of the events were too specific to lie about. I'm sure his statments were backed up with witnesses and evidence. I just wish her body would be found so some closure could be obtained by all of her loved ones.

I did know Rob. Not well, but enough to say hi to him if I saw him. He seemed like a good enough guy, but he and Angie had some problems as they fought a lot. They were more friends of my ex-husband than myself, but I remember a few nights being up on the square when they were on opposite sides and were sending people back and forth to tell the other one things. I honestly didn't get along with Angela well. There was an incident between her and my ex and we never saw eye to eye after it happened. I did know the other guy she was seeing, but also not well. I can't even remember his name off the top of my head.

I just stumbled apon this website. My co-workers and I were dicussing unsolved cases in the Springfield MO area and I had forgotten all about this case. I always wondered if anyone found out what happened to Angela. I also lived in Clinton at the time of her disappearance. I knew Rob, but only met him after this happened. He seemed like a such a nice guy. Not sure if this will be much help, and I hope my memory serves me correctly but I believe the other boy was from the Deepwater area and his name was Bill Barker. Now, keep in mind this was just hearsay and you know how small towns are, so I would not take it as gospel. Anyway, this site has made for interesting reading and I hope someday they find out what happened to her as well as the three missing women from Springfield. It is very sad.

I've always been suspicious of Rob, as I have stated in old posts, but it's hard to say one way or the other.

One of my main contentions is what another poster stated in this thread: why would Angela drive only a few blocks and then CALL Rob from a pay phone (when she had just seen him a few minutes prior)? Well, then someone informed me that Angela did not have a home phone. If that's true, her pay-phone call would make sense. (NOTE: I am not sure where the info about Angela not having a home phone came from, but someone on this board mentioned it). At any rate, assuming she didn't have a phone, Rob's story does become more believable.

The truth is, it is extremely rare for anyone to fall victim to a serial killer. That's why I always try to look at the most parsimonious explanation first: husbands, boyfriends, ex-lovers, fathers, mothers, etc. I have heard statistics that around 80% of all murders are committed by someone the victim knew.

When I was a teenager, I and many of my friends would use payphones all the time for various reasons. If the phone at home was in a public area and you wanted a private conversation, if you weren't supposed to be calling someone, if other people in the house were sleeping and you wanted to be quiet and sometimes for no reason at all other than you felt like it. So even if she had a home phone, I don't think that's a reason to suspect Rob.

I don't know why, but I just don't see Rob as a suspect.

I'm not sure if someone else has raised this possiblity: What if the truck mural was merely temporary? Perhaps set up to distract witnesses....the mural may have been removed (somehow) immediately after, and/or, the truck abandoned or destroyed.

I'm not sure if someone else has raised this possiblity: What if the truck mural was merely temporary? Perhaps set up to distract witnesses....the mural may have been removed (somehow) immediately after, and/or, the truck abandoned or destroyed.

welcome to the forum, StackTime (cool username, btw)

honestly, I thought that as well. the fish mural sticks out like a sore thumb, so I would imagine there is a high possibility the adbuctor removed it shortly after the abduction.

Thanks, wiseguy. The case, regardless of theory, is very spooky. One that I remember from my days of watching UM as a youth!

I'm not sure if someone else has raised this possiblity: What if the truck mural was merely temporary? Perhaps set up to distract witnesses....the mural may have been removed (somehow) immediately after, and/or, the truck abandoned or destroyed.

That's an excellent point. It could have been cling vinyl, I'm sure it was around then (colorforms originated in the 1950s), although I'm not sure it was necessarily used for window decals.
In that case, he wouldn't have even needed a razor and elbow grease to get the decal off.

I'm not sure if someone else has raised this possiblity: What if the truck mural was merely temporary? Perhaps set up to distract witnesses....the mural may have been removed (somehow) immediately after, and/or, the truck abandoned or destroyed.


StackTime,
Thats a very cool possibility. I got home late last night and stumbled across this case. It is very creepy...close enough to hear the girl scream for help! Yikes! I cant imagine having to be put in that situation. And the description that she gave her boyfriend of the guy was hair raising...geesh I would have flipped out. "Filthy. With a beard. Wearing Overalls." If memory serves me correctly.

Another weird thing...that someone has already posted. The entire role of her dropping the boyfriend off...only to later got to a phonebooth and call him. I dont get it. Did she not have a home phone? Perhaps is was mere puppy love.

Either way...amazing story and really tragic.

I'm not sure if someone else has raised this possiblity: What if the truck mural was merely temporary? Perhaps set up to distract witnesses....the mural may have been removed (somehow) immediately after, and/or, the truck abandoned or destroyed.

Good point. That mural was pretty tacky. How could one not notice and remember it? The fact that no one has come forward makes me wonder whether it was temporary and/or used as a smoke screen to throw police off of his trail later on.

Bumping this thread up for Mike from the Bronx.

Just to get a few things cleared up here.

1. Angela did not just drop Rob off and then go directly to a pay phone to call him. She dropped him off because he was babysitting his little brother. She went to visit a friend and then called him two hours later.

2. That type of truck with the decal was very common back then. It would have only stood out AFTER word spread of the abduction. No one would have paid any attention to that truck just driving down the highway. Once the decal was removed that truck would have blended in with the thousands of other trucks of that same make and model.

http://www.kansascity.com/115/story/1125960.html

Thought anyone who still keeps up with this board might be interested in reading this. It was in the Kansas City Star on April 4th which was the 18th anniversary of her disappearance. They have finally admitted Angela was pregnant at the time she was abducted. They are also saying they have done more DNA testing and may have additional information which they aren't releasing at this time. Sorry if anyone has asked any questions of me. I've been out of the loop lately with email and had to do a search to find this board again.

First off as I had stated in a post on this subject last year, I know a guy that was a Henry County Deputy at the time Angela went missing. He said the exact same things that you are saying about the investigators being incompetent. He told me that they thought Rob had done it right off the bat. Instead of pursuing finding the truck that was described by Rob they took volunteers and went out into fields looking for a body. By the time they realized Rob's story checked out the real abductors where long gone.

As far as phone records go, there where no phone records kept by the phone company in 1991. You would have to pay to have a trace put on your line if someone was making harrassing phone calls to you and I don't think caller ID was even out yet.

Now my questions for you, while I realize you may not be able to answer any of these its always worth a shot.

1. Do you know how long it was from the time she dissappeard until the FBI got involved?
2. Do you know if anyone else actually saw the truck Rob described? I have seen news reports that other people had seen it but then others say that only Rob saw the truck.
3. Do you know exactly how Rob got to the police station that night? Did he run there, did he call from a payphone, did he go to someone's house and have them drive him?
4. Do you know who the friend was that Angela was hanging out with between the time she dropped Rob off and making the phone call to him?
5. I know they had pictures of Angela put up all over town but did you ever see pictures or drawings of the truck she was kidnapped in?

Thats all I can think of right now, Im sure I can come up with more after I do some review, thanks for coming in here and sharing what you know with us.

First question, I don't recall the FBI ever being involved. I'm sure they were involved at one point or another, but I don't personally remember any FBI people being in town. It was like she disappeared, people beat the bushes looking for a body and then Unsolved Mysteries was in town doing their show. We (my ex and I were questioned by the police, but we were in Denver, Colorado when she disappeared and we got back a couple of days after she was taken.) were never questioned by the FBI and no one we know were either. Henry County does have a major case squad which handles these kinds of things and they were the main players after the first week or so after her disappearance.

Second question, most people, at that time, did their socializing on the Clinton Square. As far as I know, no one else has said they saw the truck. When they did the UM show, they filmed part of it on the Clinton square, but to my knowledge, she was never taken to the square. The payphone she was at was in what was once Safeway parking lot and is now Jim Raysik car dealership. It was on the corner of the lot by the stop lights. Most people didn't go that way off the square. We usually used the northeast corner to leave the square or else you went down the southwest corner that took you by the sheriff's department. It wasn't unheard of to go the direction the payphone was in, but it just didn't happen much. I find it hard to believe that no one saw anything as many of us used to hang out up there and drive around. And rarely would a person use the payphone there. Any time I ever needed to use a payphone, I would use the one that was at the all night gas station a block down from where she was. I still wonder to this day why she used that particular payphone.

My understanding is Rob walked (ran?) to the police station. The police station was only two blocks from where the abduction happened. I don't know exactly where he was when his car went haywire, but from the payphone itself was, the police station was well within walking distance.

I posted a newspaper website today which said she was with someone who was visiting from out of town. I was always told she was with her best friend for the majority of that night. I can't remember her name, but I can picture her in my head. Those two girls were together most of the time. So that was a new bit of information to me.

I have seen what they thought the back window looked like. There were and still are at Wal-Mart in Clinton, I believe, posters with a picture of Angela on it and a picture of a similar decal like what was supposed to be on the truck. It wasn't the exact one and it wasn't a drawing though, just a picture of what the decal might've looked like.

I don't know that they will ever find out what happened to Angie, but I do hope, for her familys sake, they do so her mother and father can have some kind of closure. I was so surprised when I read that KC Star article and it had been 18 years. It sure doesn't seem like it happened that long ago.

I just stumbled apon this website. My co-workers and I were dicussing unsolved cases in the Springfield MO area and I had forgotten all about this case. I always wondered if anyone found out what happened to Angela. I also lived in Clinton at the time of her disappearance. I knew Rob, but only met him after this happened. He seemed like a such a nice guy. Not sure if this will be much help, and I hope my memory serves me correctly but I believe the other boy was from the Deepwater area and his name was Bill Barker. Now, keep in mind this was just hearsay and you know how small towns are, so I would not take it as gospel. Anyway, this site has made for interesting reading and I hope someday they find out what happened to her as well as the three missing women from Springfield. It is very sad.

I wonder if I knew you back then. Did you know anyone whose last name was Drescher? Or Everhart? And I think you might be right about Bill Barker. That name is ringing all kinds of bells with me. I don't remember for sure and I could be completely wrong, but I definitely know who you're talking about and am fairly sure you are right.

First, the transmission story is the big red flag. If he did damage the transmission by throwing the car in reverse, I am skeptical as to whether it would run at all. And why would it decide to go out after "making a right turn?"
have to disagree. Transmissions are very tricky and they can fail at any time. For example, i wouldnt be shocked if mine failed, simply because it's never been changed for at least 6 years and this is an old car i have too.
Second, as others have said, the distance between Angela and Rob was not very far, so why was she even calling him to begin with? This is even more confusing since she had left his house not long before.
in the segment, you hear that Angela was going to a friend's house, then she called Rob, so that's the answer to that, she left, went to a friend's house, called Rob at a pay phone when she left.
Third: Why didn't Rob simply call the police instead of trying to handle it himself? Or at least, why didn't he call 911 before he headed out himself? This seems the most logical.
This is EASILY answered. He was in a state of panic!!!! He wanted to go out and save his girlfriend and during this time they had no cell phones, if this happened today, then he would've brought his cell phone, call police and followed the guy, but sadly, he rushed and wanted to head out and at least try to find her.
Fourth: Why were there no witnesses? No one in town who was interviewed by the cops had ever seen such a truck
i heard from others that there was witnesses that seen a similar truck
I think this should put to bed forever the "Rob did it" theory. We're talking about a high school kid, who, if he committed murder, would probably be doing so out of passion and anger rather than for sexual gratification
my issue with the Rob did it theory is questioned RIGHT HERE. If Rob did this, he would've made a mistake. Someone would've seen a bloody shirt. Someone would've noticed blood in a car and questioned it. However, There isnt anything that screams Rob did this besides a story, that isn't impossible.

1) Angela was abducted by a transient serial killer who just happened upon that small town and just happened upon her at a phone booth with no one in town seeing his truck that night (and remember a serial killer would need a lot of time to find a victim at the right spot, so it is likely someone would have seen him earlier).
That's my scenerio, it's a serial killer and rapist and NO he doesnt need a lot of time to find a victim. Say the killer was driving to his home and this town was where he passed through, then he happened to see a pretty young girl at a phone booth, he drives around, doesnt see anyone with her and then gets the girl!!!! That is my scenerio. The killer was driving around, passed through the town and in his sick mind saw an opportunity and used it. and he likely killed her in another city or state and the killer is likely eithed dead, in prison or worse, living right near you.

The one thing Rob does have going for him is that her body was never found. This fact alone sort of points to the fact that she was probably transported a good distance away (perhaps outside of the jurisdiction of any investigating police force). I doubt a 17-18 year old guy would be "saavy" enough to dispose of her body without a trace. Again, this fact points to her body being transported a good distance away and being disposed of by someone experienced in doing just that.[/B]
and that's my issue with the Rob did this theory. First off, an 18 year old kid with the brains to dispose of a body, not be noticed by his brother who would say, hey where's Rob and the fact that he would clean up so well and also bring a change of clothes because i am sure if he did this, his clothes would have blood on them, that's only one reason i eliminate Rob. No evidence even points at him.

I am about 60/40 on this one, with the 60% being in favor that Rob did it
i am 90/10 on this with the 10% being Rob did it.

Just a few things on this case that I'd like to comment on:

Why did Angela leave Rob and later call him from a pay phone so close to his house? Why didn't she just drive back to his place to discuss whatever that conversation was about?

Possible answer: Rob was babysitting his younger brother and this happened fairly late at night. He could have been under a parent imposed curfew while watching his brother. In other words, his parents wanted his attention focused on the brother, since he was responsible for him that night, and they didn't want Rob's girlfriend or any other visitors at the house during that time. That meant Rob and Angela would have to talk on the phone that night, rather than visit in person. (In my own experience, I had a boyfriend tell me he had to babysit is little brother, because of this his parents wouldn't allow visitors, but I got suspicious and caught him with another girl at his house that night.) Rob was a young guy, this could have just been an excuse he gave Angela, so she would have to call from the pay phone and not stop by his house.

But aside from that odd possibility, and even though Rob and Angela were adults, there still could have been the curfew situation, especially since Rob was baby sitting. For example, my 21 year old daughter's boyfriend is 24. He lives with his parents, has a full time job, and goes to school. On weeknights, he actually has a 9pm curfew, and this is a guy who's lived on his own off and on, including out of state, at various times. I think it's the old "you live in my house you're gonna follow my rules" situation.

Why did Angela continue to talk on the phone and describe the guy and his truck to Rob, but did not leave?

Possible answer: I've been in almost this exact situation. I was 8 years old, alone in the car in a parking lot, waiting for my mom to come out of the pharmacy. During the few minutes I was in the car, playing with my dolls and stuffed animals, I noticed a blue car slowly circling the small lot, but not in a manner that suggested he was looking for a parking space. I made mental notes of his unusual behavior, his car, his looks, and even what he was wearing. He then parked close by, approached me, tried to grab me through the car window, but I jumped out of the other side and ran to safety.

My thinking at the time was that this guy looked suspicious, maybe casing cars to steal or take something out of them, etc, but I didn't really think his attention was specifically on me until he approached me. Maybe Angela thought the guy and his car were weird enough to notice, just in case she witnessed him stealing a car or breaking into a nearby store that was closed, etc. She may not have realized she was the intended target until it was too late.

Rob's transmission.... I've had them conk out for no reason. In Rob's case he was pushing an old vehicle very hard and not driving under normal circumstances. I think the broken transmission can be a believable scenario and not just a weird excuse.

The fish decal on the truck: After reading the other posts, I'm beginning to wonder if maybe that decal really was temporary or easily removed. To quickly remove a permanent decal, all you need is a heat gun like what they use in car repair shops. It's a hand held device that resembles a hair dryer. They use them to remove bumper stickers and other things from cars without ruining the paint. Even if it was a permanent sticker, it could be removed without leaving any traces that it was ever there. That would remove one of the most identifying characteristics of the abductor's truck.

Things not in Rob's favor: If my stats are right, the number one killer of pregnant women is the baby's father. (Laurie Hacking and Laci Peterson are two high profile murders of this type.) Financial stress, impending unwanted fatherhood, loss of freedom, etc, seem to be factors.

From what we've see here, Rob's truck and the perp's truck were very similar in age, model, color, etc. And as the investigator's always say, "there are no coincidences".

I don't know what to make of this but as I mentioned earlier in another thread I do find the whole transmission breakdown extremely odd, and also how come there were absolutely no witnesses??? You'd think at least one person would've seen something... Very weird IMO...

:confused:

I started a thread entitled, "If you were to build a case against Rob Shaver". Read it. I personally think there are some points in there that at the very least generate some debate.