I'm sure guys recall the case of Oba Chandler in Florida who took a woman her 2 daughters on a boat trip in Florida and then raped and dumped thier bodies while they were STILL alive!! He duct taped their mouths and tied their hands behind their backs then tied cement blocks to their necks so they would sink to the botton.

He purposely kept their eyes open so they could see all the horror of what was happening to them and see that they were going to die. They were found naked from the waist down and another indication they were still alive was that one of the daughters had actually freed one of her hands from the rope.

He got convicted and got the death penalty but he still denies it to this day eventhough he admits he was on the lake AFTER he denied it after they caught him in a lie about what he was doing there. What's even more sad was the 3 victims were from a farming family from a small town in Ohio and it was their first vacation EVER.

The thing that I just can't get over is WHY would a woman with 2 daughters let a TOTAL STRANGER take them on a boat trip out to the middle of the ocean where they could not get help if they needed it!! I know he was convincing but you should know better to put yourself in a deadly situation where no one can help you. I can't help but think if the mother was more prudent then she and the daughters would be alive today.

I cannot think of a more sick, twisted, depraved, and horrifying case than this. Can you?

The Rogers family was actually from Willsire Ohio which was right next to a small town that i grew up in Ohio. I was a 13 when this happened and the whole Ohio area was freaked out. It was constantly on the news the summer of 1989. How terrible of a crime but I myself still cannot fathom how you go off on a boat with a total stranger.

The Rogers family was actually from Willsire Ohio which was right next to a small town that i grew up in Ohio. I was a 13 when this happened and the whole Ohio area was freaked out. It was constantly on the news the summer of 1989. How terrible of a crime but I myself still cannot fathom how you go off on a boat with a total stranger.


As much as I hate to say it, it really is Mrs.Rogers fault that she and her daughters were tortured and killed because you never trust a TOTAL stranger hundreds of miles from home even if he was a priest!! Some people will tell your ANYTHING to get their way so she should've known better as a mother.

I know she's from a small town but that's even more reason she should've been wary of people from larger cities.

That was an extremely bold statement. Granted, that Mrs. Rodgers placed herself in harm's way like a lot of UM victims do, but I defintitely wouldn't call it her fault. She is an innocent victim, Oba Chandler is a ruthless criminal. I'm sure she didn't try to get herself killed.

I wouldn't say it was her fault but she did exercise extremely poor judgement. Odd thing about this is I was expecting a half decent looking man (I'm not gay, "not that there is anything wrong with that") but this guy was a disgusting looking pig.

Lets remember that they came from a rural area (they lived on a farm) and people in that situation tend to be more trusting. I'm sure the last thing on her mind was that this harmless looking guy was really a serial killer. The worse thing about this case was that UM said they were all raped and thrown in the water alive however I watched a show about their case and it said they were unable to determine if they were thrown in the water alive. Just an interesting point I thought I'd mention.

Lets remember that they came from a rural area (they lived on a farm) and people in that situation tend to be more trusting. I'm sure the last thing on her mind was that this harmless looking guy was really a serial killer. The worse thing about this case was that UM said they were all raped and thrown in the water alive however I watched a show about their case and it said they were unable to determine if they were thrown in the water alive. Just an interesting point I thought I'd mention.

Actually, this case was just on the BIO channel and I think it was on "City Confidential" or a show like that. They said that the victims were ALIVE when thrown in the water since their lungs were filled with water so I suppose if you are already dead you wouldn't be inhaling water into the lungs.

Also, they tried to free or their restraints while in the water.

Actually, this case was just on the BIO channel and I think it was on "City Confidential" or a show like that. They said that the victims were ALIVE when thrown in the water since their lungs were filled with water so I suppose if you are already dead you wouldn't be inhaling water into the lungs.

Also, they tried to free or their restraints while in the water.


This story has always devastated me. Here is an artical I found detailing more about the family and this tragedy.

http://www.andelman.com/ARTICLES/obachandler.html

They said that the victims were ALIVE when thrown in the water since their lungs were filled with water so I suppose if you are already dead you wouldn't be inhaling water into the lungs.

Do you remember the Kurt McFall case profiled on UM? He was the young man found dead at Land's End, San Francisco and suspicion swhirled around his death because of some bizarre associations he had made prior to his untimely death. Well his bruised and battered body was found, quite pale, with only his jeans on. It was obvious he had been in the water for an extended amount of time, yet not enough to advance the decomposition process etremely too far. I make not of this case because they cannot determine the cause of death in this case. The injuries to his body could have come from falling off the high rocky cliffs, then his lifeless body would have been taken out by the high tide. He may have drowned. Either after falling and injuring, possibly incapacitating, himself; or after titring from swimming out too far or sucked into an undertow, his body bounced and battered against the craggy rocks beneath the surf.

The point is, when a lifeless body is in the water for an extended period of time it might become impossible to determine if they drowned or not. Water will make its way into the lungs and every other opening it finds as the natural decomposition process start to deteriorate the body. If you are already dead you would not be inhaling water into the lungs, however nothing is going to impede the water filling up those lungs once life is ended. Perhaps their is a pneumothorax? Maybe the deteriorating process, the exact process of which I am admittedly, and thankfully, unfamiliar with, tears at the lung and water fills? Who knows?



Also, they tried to free or their restraints while in the water.

Now THIS I would consider a strong indication of life occuring for a while after the restraints were applied, at least in the case of one of the victims. I don't know how one could conclude where they struggled with the restraints, in the boat or in the water, but it doesn't seem like that sick **** would let them struggle too hard to free themselves before doing something to try and stop them.

I'm cruious, Big3sCompanyFan, how were the bodies discovered if they were secured with cinder blocks around their necks?

As much as I hate to say it, it really is Mrs.Rogers fault that she and her daughters were tortured and killed because you never trust a TOTAL stranger hundreds of miles from home even if he was a priest!! Some people will tell your ANYTHING to get their way so she should've known better as a mother.

I know she's from a small town but that's even more reason she should've been wary of people from larger cities.

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you. Oba Chandler met these women randomly, turned on the charm, and enacted a ruse to get these women in a situation they couldn't get out of. When you travel alone, it is natural to be extremely cautious. One feels more protected when they are in a group, even if the group is entirely made up of women. He was evil and calculating...they were not.

However, that's neither here nor there in my opinion. I wouldn't care if these women were out hooking on the streetcorner in high heels and fishnets when Oba Chandler picked them up, it would NOT BE THEIR FAULT.

It makes me sick that we live in a world where men can commit violence against women and, no matter what the legal outcome is, people will still say, "She should have known better." Let's put the blame where it really lies, okay?

I'm cruious, Big3sCompanyFan, how were the bodies discovered if they were secured with cinder blocks around their necks?

They said the bodies decomposed which releases gases that caused bloating and the bodies to rise to the top.

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you. Oba Chandler met these women randomly, turned on the charm, and enacted a ruse to get these women in a situation they couldn't get out of. When you travel alone, it is natural to be extremely cautious. One feels more protected when they are in a group, even if the group is entirely made up of women. He was evil and calculating...they were not.

However, that's neither here nor there in my opinion. I wouldn't care if these women were out hooking on the streetcorner in high heels and fishnets when Oba Chandler picked them up, it would NOT BE THEIR FAULT.

It makes me sick that we live in a world where men can commit violence against women and, no matter what the legal outcome is, people will still say, "She should have known better." Let's put the blame where it really lies, okay?

Come on!! A woman with 2 daughters is hundreds of miles from home never having been out of her own neck of the woods and she accepts a boat ride into the middle of the ocean with a total stranger!! That's a recipie for suicide!!

She should've known better not to trust a total stranger to that extent then she and her daughters would be alive today!

Come on!! A woman with 2 daughters is hundreds of miles from home never having been out of her own neck of the woods and she accepts a boat ride into the middle of the ocean with a total stranger!! That's a recipie for suicide!!

She should've known better not to trust a total stranger to that extent then she and her daughters would be alive today!


Okay. I have a friend (really I do-- if it were me, I'd say so) who went to France as an exchange student. While there, she took a private tour with a tour guide from a reputable company. The tour guide RAPED my friend during this tour.

By your logic, this would make my friend responsible for what happened to her. She was "hundreds of miles from home never having been out of her own neck of the woods" and she hired a tour guide (a total stranger) who raped her. She trusted him to a very big extent-- he was an employee of a reputable company that gave her a false sense of security.

I can NOT agree with your logic in good faith. It's never the fault of the victim. Yeah, maybe it was a mistake to have trusted Oba Chandler... but I guarantee you that more people than not WOULD have trusted him in that very situation. "Bad people" don't LOOK like "bad people." They look like everyday folks. Ted Bundy, anyone?

As much as I hate to say it, it really is Mrs.Rogers fault that she and her daughters were tortured and killed


Now THAT was in poor taste.

Read carefully the replies that your getting regarding this comment. Maybe then you'll get it.

Hmm, yes I will agree with the majority here that Big3 company's comments were rather tasteless, ignorant and out of line. While I am far from a victims rights advocate, this case is horrifying, these three women were thrown in the water still alive after being raped and sadistically tortured.

Now, was it bad judgement on Mrs. Rogers part to take her girls on a boat with a stranger? Of course, we can all agree there, but it is not her fault that her and her daughters were raped and murdered. One must also remember this was 1989, people were different in 1989 and thought differently about strangers.

The Rogers were small town people, Oba Chandler despite not being a good looking man by any means, was your typical sex offender, he was/is highly manipulative and can have multiple personalities and pretty much make you believe anything he wants you to believe.

He probably just told the women, "hey, I will give you a ride on my boat, I will show you Tampa Bay since you are tourists here on vacation." He must have seemed friendly, would they have got into a boat with him had he not been?

He had killed before this I am sure, I have a hard time believing a person would kill three people alone the way Chandler did if he were a first time killer. The real question is was Chandler alone? I lean towards the possibility that he was.

Now, Chandler actually could have got away with this, but his arrogance did him in. From what I have read about the case and seen on TV, Chandler thought he was so smart, that he could con anyone. Chandler talked a great game, but as mentioned earlier, he got in a lie on the trial stand. Chandler was testifying in his own defense and he admitted that he had wrote the directions on the Rogers travel brochure.

However he had always denied being out on the bay that night, however eventually the cops eventually found a time stamped receipt that showed that Oba Chandler had taken his boat out on Tampa Bay that night. So when Chandler realized that he had been caught in a lie, he got all flustered and couldnt explain how he could be out there without having killed the Rogers women and he was convicted. In my opinion he is right where he belongs.

You forgot that robby41, who is from a town very close to the town the victims are from, said "I myself still cannot fathom how you go off on a boat with a total stranger". So, the guy from their neck of the woods agrees with me.

How on earth could you people actually not place blame on someone who goes out into the middle of the ocean with a total stranger???? It's just common sense that you're putting yourself in potentially one of the most deadly situations since you have no control AT ALL in the middle of the ocean!!

A predator or killer is going to try to deceive you so that's why you don't put yourself in vulnerable situation with a total stranger. Also, I never said it's 100% the fault of the victims but when you go out into the middle of the ocean with someone you don't even know and you're all alone out there with no help at all the preponderance of the blame lies on the people who agreed to put themselves in a potentially deadly situation!! That's just common sense.

The story of the lady in France who got raped in totally different. If a man from a reputable company is giving you a tour then you could be part of a tour group or he would be giving you a tour in an office area with a lot of employees so you would hardly be alone.

Being out in the middle of the ocean with a total stranger is NOTHING like going on a tour in a well populated area with a reputable company representative. And Bundy used to ask women to help him carry something to his car which is VASTLY different than going out in the middle of the ocean. SHEESH!!

I think its quite harsh Big3sCompanyFan for you to say that she should be blamed for her and her children's murder. I'm guessing you live in a bigger city. I live in a small town in a rural area and things are way more trusting here than in a big city. People would give complete strangers rides around here if their car broke down without a second thought. When you've grown up in an area that is trusting you don't think the worst of everyone and I know that the Roger's were from a rural area. Yes she didn't make the best choice considering she was in a big city and he was a complete stranger and she had her children with her but did she deserve to be raped and murdered and watch her children be raped and murdered for it.....NO!

I think its quite harsh Big3sCompanyFan for you to say that she should be blamed for her and her children's murder. I'm guessing you live in a bigger city. I live in a small town in a rural area and things are way more trusting here than in a big city. People would give complete strangers rides around here if their car broke down without a second thought. When you've grown up in an area that is trusting you don't think the worst of everyone and I know that the Roger's were from a rural area. Yes she didn't make the best choice considering she was in a big city and he was a complete stranger and she had her children with her but did she deserve to be raped and murdered and watch her children be raped and murdered for it.....NO!

I never said she deserved to be raped and murdered and I notice people keep saying she exercised bad judgement and made a bad choice. Well, by saying that your are laying fault or blame on her. The definition of "blame" is to "hold responsible or find fault with". We are scutinizing the nuances of words here but since you all ADMIT she had bad judgement you are "finding fault" with her bad judgement so you are blaming her just like me.

There is a big difference between finding fault with someone and saying they deserved it. No one would say she deserved it but we ALL find fault with her bad judgement and hence by the dictionary definition we are ALL blaming her.

So, if you guys just look up the definition of "blame" you'll see you owe me an apology since you blamed her too!!

:wave:

but since you all ADMIT she had bad judgement you are "finding fault" with her bad judgement so you are blaming her just like me.



You are certainly putting words in our mouth. Saying that someone made a bad decision is not the same as blaming them for something. I think the reason people took exception at what you said is you made it sound like since she may have used bad judgment on one thing that she is responsible for all the other horrible things that happened to her and her children. Lets remember we're talking about someone who is no longer with us. I certainly don't want to argue about this though. After reading your comments I just felt I needed to present the other side and how it seems the majority of the posters feel.

Having been out on boats in the Tampa area, alot of boaters look scruffy. However that is based on my experience around the years of 1995-1997.

That said, this event occurred in 1989. While alot of bad things were going on, it was still a time where alot of people especially ones from smaller towns and communities still were very trusting of individuals, even ones they meet while on vacation.

It did not occur to the mom that this man was a bad person, as he could have come across very smart,sweet and kind even while not looking all that good. Another point, some people do not pre judge people based on looks but how the person interacts as a whole.

Not sure if this has been brought up but here it goes: What if the mother had no choice but to go on the boat ride. The mother could have realized that something was up before they got on the boat and he may have forced them to board regardless so he can carry out what he did to them.

I as well believe that they were not his first murder victims and that if he was not caught he would have murdered again. But that is my opinion.


T*B

I've lived in a small town my whole life; I've since moved to Dallas TX and am slowly learning that the lifestyle I took for granted (like leaving your house door unlocked at night) is not feasible in the "big city". I agree, while it was a lack of judgement, it's certainly not Joan Rogers' fault. I've been in plenty of situations that looking back were recipies for disaster but it turned out okay, times were different back then and being from a small town, making you already naive and trusting, made Joan and her daughters ideal targets. Lack of better judgement, yes, and if Joan was still here, and looking back I'm sure she would agree. Their fault, no.

You forgot that robby41, who is from a town very close to the town the victims are from, said "I myself still cannot fathom how you go off on a boat with a total stranger". So, the guy from their neck of the woods agrees with me.

Yes, let us all bow to the opinion of robby41. (nothing personal, robby) Are you telling me you've never accepted help from a stranger? Never been on a blind date? Never met someone you didn't know well in a public space? Please. This discussion really makes me sick.

I remember a while back, there was a poster that basically said that Lisa Marie Kimmel and her family were partially responsible for her own death because a young lady her age shouldn't have been travelling alone. This person was just as wrong as you are, and I had the same response. Also, that poster probably didn't know that Lisa's mother, Mrs. Kimmel posts here often. Would you be saying the same thing if the Rogers' family were reading this? You wouldn't have the guts.

You are certainly putting words in our mouth. Saying that someone made a bad decision is not the same as blaming them for something. I think the reason people took exception at what you said is you made it sound like since she may have used bad judgment on one thing that she is responsible for all the other horrible things that happened to her and her children. Lets remember we're talking about someone who is no longer with us. I certainly don't want to argue about this though. After reading your comments I just felt I needed to present the other side and how it seems the majority of the posters feel.

Again, you just don't know the right defintions for the word "blame":

1. To hold responsible.
2. To find fault with
3. The state of being responsible for a fault or error

We all agree she definitely made an ERROR in getting on the boat. According to authorities she was not forced on the boat but went on her own free will. If it was her choice then she made an error and since she went on her own free will she is responsible for that error.

However, IF she was forced on the boat THEN it is NOT her fault AT ALL but she chose to go on her own so you have to blame her and if you see the above defintion that is the correct word to use.

Unfortunately, it was never raised at all that she was forced on the boat so I think that's quite unlikely especially since she parked her car near the ocean and took written directions from Oba and she probably wouldn't have done all that if she was forced. Also, it was a more populated area on the beach so it would be hard to abduct 3 people in front of all those people since the Rogers could've screamed to get someone's attention.

Well big3company it is obvious to me you are never going to admit you were wrong in what you said, so I am going to stop getting you to admit it. However, you again are overlooking the fact that this was 1989 and while you place blame on the Rogers women for being raped and murdered your argument simply doesnt hold up. That would be like you blaming a woman who is drunk at a bar for being raped by a man she went home with.

Seemingly your argument in the Rogers situation and any other like it would be, "well if the women just hadnt been there it wouldnt have happened." You are greatly over-simplifying the situation.

The Rogers were from a small town, this was in 1989 when most people in small towns wouldnt have thought this kind of stuff could or would happen. I live in a small town and I know how they were feeling. Heck, just the other day, a guy came to our house to enquire about a truck topper we had next to our garage, he inquired if we wanted to sell it since it had been laying on the ground outside for sometime.

I had never met this man before, yet without a second thought I let him in my house to get his contact info down so my dad could call him when he got home from work. Honestly, I never had a second thought about the guy, he came in, wrote his name and phone number down, petted my dog and left.

But I didnt know the guy, for all I knew he could have been casing our house for a robbery, he could have assaulted me, beat me up, done any number of things, but I didnt think of any of that. Of course none of that happened, but it could have. But if he had, would I have been to blame because I let him in?

But again, the Rogers women, were not to blame. Also, I am surprised you only blame Mrs. Rogers since the older Rogers daughter was 18 at the time. She was an adult, she could have refused to go on the boat, why not blame her too? I mean, to blame women for being raped and murdered is ridiculous. Unless the woman asked the man to rape and murder them it would not be appropriate to blame a woman for being raped and murdered. So unless Mrs. Rogers asked Oba Chandler to rape and murder her and her daughters that would not be appropriate to blame her.

Oba Chandler wrote down the directions on the pamphlet, he probably mentioned to them at that time that he had a boat and that since they had never been on Tampa Bay, that he would take them for a nighttime boat ride since I imagine a nighttime boat ride on Tampa Bay would be very beautiful especially at night.

Oba Chandler while not a good looking man does not look like a rapist, if you didnt know that he was a rapist and murderer you wouldnt think he looked like one. Chandler probably turned on the charm and probably just seemed like an incredibly nice and helpful man.

He probably worked overtime to ensure he did not alarm the Rogers women, he didnt want to seem out of the ordinary because then they wouldnt have got on his boat.

People make mistakes. People make dumb decisions. People can be naive.

You are trying to apply a dictionary definition to say that someone had fault in a situation, but you are using it way to liberally.

If I walk outside and cross the street to get the mail and then get run over by a drunk driver, am I to blame? It is, after all, my fault I was walking in the street. I'm honestly not trying to be a smart ass, Big3sCompanyFan, but I think what you are saying is really unfair.

Yes, they may have made a poor choice and may still be alive if they didn't go on the boat ride. But you could say that about a lot of things. To say you "blame" a victim of rape/murder is really, really low. I think anyone who was ever raped, no matter what situation they got themself into, would consider that a slap in the face.

I understand your line of thinking, but I don't think you can say "blame" (no matter what Webster's Dictionary says). I think it would be more appropriate to say people could learn from this and need to be more careful with strangers. You may not have meant to use "blame" in that way, but everyone else (me included) sure takes it that way.

I do agree that this is one of the most horrifying cases UM ever had. My heart goes out to the victims and their families.

I agree with you, Todd. People do make mistakes. To err is human.

Are we going to hold the same type of harsh judgment towards other victims profiled on UM?

What about that lady who went canoing with her young son? Are we going to blame her because she's "obviously" never seen Deliverance?

What about Matthew Chase or Gretchen Burford, who went alone to an ATM late at night?

What about Philip Frazier who gave a lift to that hitchhiker on the scarcely populated stretch of road in western Canada?

What about Dexter Stefonek's plan to not stay at hotels and just sleep in rest areas? While he was murdered during daylight, how many travel guides warn us that we should never SLEEP overnight in a rest area. It's just too risky.

I would like to think that have more empathy towards these victims. They were just at the wrong place at the wrong time. That's the biggest tragedy of all, we could all be potential victims, no matter how vigilant we claim to be.

You forgot that robby41, who is from a town very close to the town the victims are from, said "I myself still cannot fathom how you go off on a boat with a total stranger". So, the guy from their neck of the woods agrees with me.

No. I guarantee you robby41 doesn't agree with you. YOU may THINK He agrees with you but, you're wrong. :rolleyes:

Let's take a look at those Swedish hitchhikers found dead in California. I mean, do you blame them for the deaths because they accepted rides from perfect strangers THOUSANDS of miles from home? I bet you do, but you'll probably quickly jump up and say no just to try and keep yourself looking good. Either way it's too late for that. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v398/zerozander/nono.gif

And all your semantics about how poor judgement equals finding fault is BS. You just don't get it. Maybe if you were smarter you'd realize how much you have made yourself look like an ass, but you don't so just shut up already.

Sorry if I've offended any other posters out there (not including the obvious) but this person just doesn't see the general feelings of most of us posting replies here. I'm sure that this person meant to use the word "blame" in every true sense of the word. Whether you agree with me or not, I find this persons replies, stating roughly the same thing over and over again, to be a reflection of their character.

Anyway I've said my piece. I think that continuing to converse on here with this person regarding this is like.....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v398/zerozander/horse.gif

Just in answer to a few points brought up:

It was determined that the Rodgers women were placed into the water ALIVE.
The question was actual cause of death - whether they drowned or were strangled with the cement block-weighted ropes tied to their necks.

Women are always told to stay in groups. Which is true for the most part, they are safer in groups.
The Swedish hitchhikers thought they were safer because they were together and I'm sure the Rodgers family thought they were too.


Was it ever determined exactly what happened that night?

Just in answer to a few points brought up:

It was determined that the Rodgers women were placed into the water ALIVE.
The question was actual cause of death - whether they drowned or were strangled with the cement block-weighted ropes tied to their necks.

Women are always told to stay in groups. Which is true for the most part, they are safer in groups.
The Swedish hitchhikers thought they were safer because they were together and I'm sure the Rodgers family thought they were too.


Was it ever determined exactly what happened that night?

I found the online article I had mentioned earlier. This suprised me because it says they're not sure if they were alive when thrown overboard and the bodies were so decomposed they were unable to determine if they had been raped. That is completely different than what UM said. Here's the part that mentions that:

"Three days later a boater discovered Michelle Rogers floating in the waters of Tampa Bay, her mouth gagged with silver duct tape, her feet and arms bound behind her back with yellow nylon rope and weighted with concrete blocks. Joan and Christe were found not long after in the same condition.

Cause of death was officially asphyxia suffocation because the medical examiner could not determine if the women were thrown overboard while still alive. There were no other signs of trauma, suggesting their tormentor used the threat of force rather than actual force to control them. The bodies were so decomposed that the medical examiner could not determine if they were sexually assaulted."

I don't know that I ever saw the original UM episode that featured this very sad and tragic case. However, after reading this thread, I Googled "Oba Chandler" and found a very comprehensive account of the case, written by Thomas French of the St. Petersburg Times, who won the 1998 Pulitzer Prize for Feature Writing for this 1997 series of articles, "Angels and Demons":

http://www2.sptimes.com/Angels_Demons/default.html

One thing that is pointed out in the series is that Chandler had raped a Canadian tourist prior to raping and murdering Jo, Michelle, and Christe Rogers. The Wikipedia entry for Oba Chandler notes:

"About two weeks prior to the murders, Chandler lured a Canadian woman on to his boat in nearby Madeira Beach, raped her, then dropped her off back on land where a friend was waiting for her. He was not charged or tried for this crime. It is thought he did not murder her because the friend refused his offer for her to join them, a decision which more than likely saved both their lives. As a result, the victim testified during his trial for the murders to establish his pattern of attack and prove the similarities between the two crimes."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oba_Chandler

In French's series, he noted that jurors found the fact that an intelligent professional like the Canadian woman could have been lured by Chandler for a boat ride by herself made it easy to understand why three small-town women, who were likely more trusting of others and felt there was "safety in numbers," would agree to the boat excursion.

French's series also reports some additional tragic details:

1. John Rogers, the brother of Hal Rogers, brother-in-law of Jo, and uncle to Michelle and Christe, was convicted of raping Michelle over a period of several years when he lived and worked at the Rogers dairy farm. Even though he was in prison at the time of the murders, some initially speculated that he might have been indirectly responsible for the deaths.

2. Hal Rogers was also a suspect in the eyes of many of the townspeople in Ohio where the family lived. Apparently they decided he just wasn't grieving normally. The Tampa Tribune even ran a very malicious article essentially accusing Hal of the murders, quoting the minister who officiated at the funeral as saying that "he never did understand that man," or something to that effect. :mad: Nothing like adding insult to injury to this poor devastated man whose entire family was wiped out by scum like Chandler!

The French series is lengthy, but it's well worth reading.

Okay. I have a friend (really I do-- if it were me, I'd say so) who went to France as an exchange student. While there, she took a private tour with a tour guide from a reputable company. The tour guide RAPED my friend during this tour.

Were charges brought, or anything done about this? I've seen a couple of TV spots on cruise ships that put me off them for life. Women are frequently raped, or sometimes just disappear entirely (at least one such case was featured on UM) and because the ship is registered in one country, the captain in another, the crew come from various countries, and the crime occurred at sea outside the jurisdiction of any country, NO ONE is held responsible for these crimes.

I'm going to say my piece on this subject.


Big3sCompany, yes, Mrs. Rogers did not practice the greatest of judgement. Yes, she should have known better than to accept a ride w/ a man she did not know, but NONE OF THIS IS HER FAULT. We can all get on our soapboxes and say what we would have done. However, we don't know what Mrs. Rogers was thinking nor do we know exactly what was going on.

I, along w/ CD and others, are from a rural area, mine is Central Michigan. We tend to help others around here. I know my mother enough to say she would have never done it, the Rogers were also from a rural area and were, shall we say, naive. Oba Chandler could have made the choice to not commit the horrid crime he did, but instead took advantage of the situation for his own sick game.

I know in your world Big3, that you never make mistakes and that your track record with life is pristine and perfect, but the only one who is at fault for this tragic crime....is Oba Chandler.

I'm going to shut up now. This thread made me want to speak up,though. Thanks for hearing my rant all.

Were charges brought, or anything done about this? I've seen a couple of TV spots on cruise ships that put me off them for life. Women are frequently raped, or sometimes just disappear entirely (at least one such case was featured on UM) and because the ship is registered in one country, the captain in another, the crew come from various countries, and the crime occurred at sea outside the jurisdiction of any country, NO ONE is held responsible for these crimes.
Something very similar happened to my friend. She was drugged and raped at sea. By the time she got off the boat, she was still under the effects of the drug and didn't fully realize what had happened until the boat was long gone. No one was ever held responsible. Ladies, don't ever drink a beverage unless you opened the bottle yourself, never leave your drink unattended, and always have a friend with you while travelling. Guys, keep one eye open when you're out at the bars. This happens every day.

Yeah, there were at least two of those drug/rape cases on UM. I can't remember if it was the same guy who drugged one woman in a bar and another in an apartment, or two different guys.

I always remember the husband in this case and the one in the Wendy Camp case. Those are two of the saddest interviews I've ever seen. They let their families out of their sight once and never saw any of them again--in the Wendy Camp case, alive OR dead!

Well while I am against the death penalty I am sure many of you will be glad to hear this... Oba Chandler is out of appeals! It appears that he will get a death warrant signed sometime next year and will be executed sometime next year.

Even in much safer-seeming circumstances (that is, such as a hotel with people around rather than out on a boat somewhere,) a person should NEVER open a door to a stranger. People have been kidnapped, raped, and killed this way. I personally know a man who was robbed when he opened a hotel room door. (Okay, this was a friend of a friend I practically sort of know.) For instance, the Yosemite murders would never have occurred had the mother called the front desk to ask if there really was a leak being investigated, rather than open the door to Cary Stayner. By the way, does anyone see a resemblance between Cary Stayner and Oba Chandler?

Well, according to the Florida Commission on Capital Cases, Oba Chandler is out of appeals. Chandler's appeals ran out in December of '06 when his appeal was denied by the 11th circuit court of appeals headquartered in Atlanta. You can check out this website http://www.floridacapitalcases.state.fl.us/inmate-details.cfm?id=66 for info on Chandler's case and see his mugshot as well as check out the info of other Florida death row inmates. Chandler is now 62 although he looks much older. He has certainly not aged well on the row. He has been on death row for just under 14 and a half years. I'm not a supporter of the death penalty but folks like Chandler make it tempting to support it at times. There is a good chance that Chandler will get his date with the needle sometime this year.

Chandler had an uphill battle in his appeal. For the U.S. District Court of the Middle District in Florida, there are several locations but Chandler's appeal was in Tampa. Out of 8 federal judges based in Tampa, 1 was appointed by Carter, 1 appointed by Reagan, 1 by George H.W. Bush, 4 by Clinton and 1 by George W. Bush. In terms of the 11th circuit court of appeals, there are 19 judges, with one vacancy that has yet to be filled by President Obama. Out of the remaining 18, 10 were appointed by republicans. Three were appointed by Ford, two were appointed by Reagan, 4 were appointed by George H.W. Bush and one was appointed by George W. Bush. In terms of judges appointed by democrats, one was appointed by Johnson, three were appointed by Carter, 4 were appointed by Clinton.

Hal Rogers was also a suspect in the eyes of many of the townspeople in Ohio where the family lived. Apparently they decided he just wasn't grieving normally. The Tampa Tribune even ran a very malicious article essentially accusing Hal of the murders, quoting the minister who officiated at the funeral as saying that "he never did understand that man," or something to that effect. Nothing like adding insult to injury to this poor devastated man whose entire family was wiped out by scum like Chandler!
Oh, yes. Nothing like the old "he's not acting the way I would act" if my loved one died, therefore he must be a murderer accusation. When will people get the memo that there is no one right way to grieve. Everyone has his or her own process, and to try to make any deductions based on the way someone "acts" after a tragedy like this is ludicrous. This is one reason why I absolutely believe Darlie Routier deserves a new trial. The way she acted while at the cemetary, IMO, is completely and utterly irrelevant to the question of whether she was responsible for her sons' deaths. It is absolutely meaningless as anyone who has ever worked in grief counseling could tell you.

Blaming the mother for this is almost as nonsenscial as is blaming the earth, because, hey, if the water hadn't been there to begin with, they wouldn't have died in it! Ridiculous

I believe American Justice did an episode on this Oba guy as well. I remember as it as an odd first name: Oba. He was truly a piece of work, no?

Yeah to say the least. American Justice did do a show on it that was overall well done. I believe Cold Case files did a segment to. Or it might have been cold case files only that did it. I know for sure Cold Case files did a show on it but since they were both produced by Bill Kurtis it would not surprise me if the case was profiled on both shows. The Rogers women are not the only people Oba Chandler has killed. I believe he killed both before and after the Rogers women were murdered. Afterall he was not arrested until a little over 3 years after the Rogers women were murdered. Oba has been out of appeals for a couple of years now so it would not surprise me to see him get a death warrant signed this year.

I'm not sure if this article is already on this thread. However it tells about the case some, the investigation, the trial. Plus it has photos over the years of Oba's ugly mug. http://www2.sptimes.com/Angels_Demons/silver.3.html

I'm not sure if this article is already on this thread. However it tells about the case some, the investigation, the trial. Plus it has photos over the years of Oba's ugly mug. http://www2.sptimes.com/Angels_Demons/silver.3.html

The same thing should be done to oba. thrown over board, while still alive, with cement blocks attached to him !

The same thing should be done to oba. thrown over board, while still alive, with cement blocks attached to him !

I've only got one problem with your plan. I love the fishies too much to pollute the ocean with Oba Chandler's lard ass.

I found the online article I had mentioned earlier. This suprised me because it says they're not sure if they were alive when thrown overboard and the bodies were so decomposed they were unable to determine if they had been raped. That is completely different than what UM said. Here's the part that mentions that:

"Three days later a boater discovered Michelle Rogers floating in the waters of Tampa Bay, her mouth gagged with silver duct tape, her feet and arms bound behind her back with yellow nylon rope and weighted with concrete blocks. Joan and Christe were found not long after in the same condition.

Cause of death was officially asphyxia suffocation because the medical examiner could not determine if the women were thrown overboard while still alive. There were no other signs of trauma, suggesting their tormentor used the threat of force rather than actual force to control them. The bodies were so decomposed that the medical examiner could not determine if they were sexually assaulted."
Hey Everybody, as of today I am a new subscriber and unfamiliar with how posting works. I've tried to find the link so I can post my comments independent of others, but it looks like all I can do, until I figure it out, is jump into this thread as a participant in someone else's posting! Sorry, I'll figure it out later. I found this site when I typed in OC's name and came up with several links along with this one. There are references to certain newspaper/magazine articles covering this horrific story and a few years ago I managed to read several of them, all well done, all worthy of praise and respect. As for my personal perspective, I have to say that true crime has always been one of the most fascinating subjects to me, and the most fascinating aspect of true crime has always been motivation. What motivates people to do the things they do to each other? You or I could easily find ourselves, and probably have, in the exact same situation, or even worse, than some of these psychopaths, but we don't react with a cold blooded murderous rage, so why do they? This story goes way beyond just true crime. The first time I heard/read and looked at the coverage of it I just, to use a legal term, FREAKED! There have been mountains of crime stories over the years, but for some reason this one and maybe 2 or 3 others that I can think of, have taken me beyond just sad and angry. I'm sure I'm not the only one who wishes I could find a way to let those girls and their Mom know this monster was caught and that many of us care deeply about what happened to them. 3 beautiful innocent people lured in by their trusting nature. Irrespective of the means OC used to get them on his boat, had they not been the sweet and trusting souls they were, nothing he tried would have worked. Although I'm not religious in a conventional sense, I think the power of prayer and the belief in a higher justice truly helps people to reconcile the horror they feel with the question WHY? The details are just beyond my concept of evil, they shatter all the perspectives I once had about what makes a human being truly demonic. There are a few stories out there that hurt almost as much, but what makes this one so shocking to me is how happy they probably were in the hours leading up to the moment they stepped on that boat. How long were they aboard before they realized they were in trouble? Before they knew no one would hear them screaming as they begged for their lives? He is such a cold hearted pig that he probably eliminated the mother and one of her children first, leaving the last daughter all alone, having just witnessed what he did to her mom and her sister. It's just too much. The death penalty is TOO kind, it DOES NOT fit the crime. He should be thrown into a hole in the ground with no bed, no toilet, nothing, and fed just enough rotten food to keep him alive. I'm unamused I feel this way, it's not the kind of person I am, I have ALWAYS been against the death penalty, and I'm against it in this situation as well. But the reason I'm against it is not because it's barbaric or inhumane, I'm against it because it's not barbaric or inhumane enough! Cyberdish in Toronto

I finally got to see the Oba Chandler episode, I had never seen it before. Coincidentally I also saw it on one of those A&E or TruTV shows around the same time.

It is just so unfortunate that they mother took those girls out there with this stranger. One time I had my Godchildren with me and a lady wanted a ride 1 mile away from the McDonalds we were at. I told her no, I couldn't because I had the children. I wouldn't even risk it for myself, but when i had them with me there was no question and I didn't even feel guilty saying no as I normally would. People are crazy out there, you never know what they will do to you. It's sad that we have to be so paranoid but I guess it's better than being dead. What a terrible story.

Too say the mother is to blame for going out on the boat is ridiculous. People don't "ask" to be taken in harm's way, it simply happens. People should always be cautious, no matter what, but no one "asks" to be in trouble.

Back to the small town mentality aspect. I also live in a small town. it's true you feel like your in a protective bubble. everyone pretty much knows everyone. you feel comfertable living here. my Dad sometimes leaves the backdoor open when he's out and about and thinks nothing of it.

We had a case a few years ago that really shook up the town. a mother and daughter were murdered and their bodies were burned because a man was trying to get Drug $ from them. it's a quaint town for the most part. not alot of things happen in it. (alot of kids use Marijuana but I digress.) even still you get "over it" and go back to your comfertable "bubble."

my parents talk about how things were "Different" in the 60's and 70's. the truth is people were more trusting. that's it. "bad people" have always existed. people were just not as aware of them as they are today.

I do not believe I have ever seen this episode. Does anyone know what the title of the segment was called?

I do not believe I have ever seen this episode. Does anyone know what the title of the segment was called?

On the video site we can't name here, it's listed as "Mother and Daughter Tragedy". I believe the case was originally aired along with the Diabolical Minds episode. Very chilling!

Quick comment about this case. I have read the pulitzer prize winning "Angels and Demons" article in the St. Petersburg Times, and it really is worth the read. It is brilliant, and tells you almost all you need to know about this tragedy.

One thing I was thinking while I was reading this thread and the whole "the mother made bad judgement" argument: I don't think it was ever proven that the three women voluntarily chose to go out to sea. There was speculation from the article (as well as a few other articles) that the women may have gone to just see the boat, or even to see the harbor, and they were forced at gun point on the boat and taken out to sea. The police do feel that there was a gun involved in the crime. Plus, they went to the harbor while it was still light out, and apparently it is not very crowded, so he could have forced them on the boat at gunpoint without witnesses. While all scenarios are possible, Oba could have told the mother that there was a great place to view the sunset (or claiming there would be fireworks at a certain time, etc), hence the directions, and once they arrived, they were lured to his boat. You just never know.

I just think it's important to remember that no one is sure what happened that night, and we don't know why they went out there. And even if they chose to go out on the ship, they did not deserve, nor should they be "blamed" for being killed.

How many times do we as people look back at something and say "wow, I was really stupid to have done that?"

How many times do we as people look back at something and say "wow, I was really stupid to have done that?" When I was in college a friend got into a car with two guys who said they wanted to use her in a commercial. Get this: SHE WENT! And it really WAS a commercial!

I was like....how could you be so foolish? They could have taken you out into the woods and killed you!!!

That Oba Chandler case is one I can't watch on American Justice, either. Just too sad and creepy.

Every now and then I check online to see if this piece of ***** has been put to death yet. I was looking the other day and Chandler is still on death row (how freaking long does it take in Florida) but I started looking at some older articles. I came across one from just last week after the Casey Anthony verdict. They were comparing both cases as they both outraged the public.

Anyway, there was a section in this article I was reading (I wish I had the link but I do not. I will try to find it.) that said that during the trial, Chandler told a cellmate of his that he did rape and murder the three women and that he had an accomplice but did not give a name. I had always thought he may have had an accomplice because It would be much easier to "have his way" with one of them while the other two were held at gunpoint by the accomplice. The UM broadcast even suggested that there were two possible suspects since the actresses int he segment were seen getting into a boat with two males. That theory was later disregarded by the prosecution due to the fact that the lady Chandler raped in Madeira Beach had gone to meet him alone and did not bring her friend and Chandler was alone with her without an accomplice which showed he could do it by himself without an accomplice.

My question is, what do you guys think? Do you think Chandler had an accomplice? What do you think of his jailhouse confession to a cellmate that he had an accomplice? Or, do you beleive he acted alone?

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you. Oba Chandler met these women randomly, turned on the charm, and enacted a ruse to get these women in a situation they couldn't get out of. When you travel alone, it is natural to be extremely cautious. One feels more protected when they are in a group, even if the group is entirely made up of women. He was evil and calculating...they were not.

However, that's neither here nor there in my opinion. I wouldn't care if these women were out hooking on the streetcorner in high heels and fishnets when Oba Chandler picked them up, it would NOT BE THEIR FAULT.

It makes me sick that we live in a world where men can commit violence against women and, no matter what the legal outcome is, people will still say, "She should have known better." Let's put the blame where it really lies, okay?

I agree wholeheartedly with you. It was common back then for people to offer tourists rides out to the beach, it's mentioned in several articles. In fact, you can still drive down along the beach (or pretty much any lake) and there's a boat with a sign saying you can pay to go on the water. At least, there was from 2006-2008 when I lived there. It always seemed creepy to me, but I am a naturally pessimistic and overly-suspicious person.

This woman and her two teenaged daughters, they are not to blame here.

I do think he had an accomplice, and I also believe he used his gun.

I do think he had an accomplice, and I also believe he used his gun.

I think its very plausible that he had an accomplice. I cant think of how he could get two of the women to not attack him or help out while he was raping the other. Sure he could tie them up, but even in the midst of tying one up, whats to stop the other two from attacking him to save themselves?

Come on!! A woman with 2 daughters is hundreds of miles from home never having been out of her own neck of the woods and she accepts a boat ride into the middle of the ocean with a total stranger!! That's a recipie for suicide!!

She should've known better not to trust a total stranger to that extent then she and her daughters would be alive today!

I really don't care how you spin this, this is a piece of trash thing to say.

You know whats another Unsolved Mystery? Is how they have managed to keep the husband and father of these three from killing Oba Chandler.

Well while I am against the death penalty I am sure many of you will be glad to hear this... Oba Chandler is out of appeals! It appears that he will get a death warrant signed sometime next year and will be executed sometime next year.

Kadrmas, you seem to follow this. Have you heard any updates on this? I still see where he has not been put to death. Do you know when he will be?

Kadrmas, you seem to follow this. Have you heard any updates on this? I still see where he has not been put to death. Do you know when he will be?

Kadrmas was kicked off the board earlier this year.

Chandler's wikipedia page said it was revealed in 2008 he was on the short list of Florida executions so you would think it would be happening soon.

Kadrmas was kicked off the board earlier this year.

Chandler's wikipedia page said it was revealed in 2008 he was on the short list of Florida executions so you would think it would be happening soon.

Thanks Crystaldawn!

I had no idea kadrmas was kicked off. What did he do this time?

He didn't do one thing in particular. Just all the fighting with and harassing other posters despite countless warnings, retiring and unretiring...it was time for him to go. Good riddance!

He didn't do one thing in particular. Just all the fighting with and harassing other posters despite countless warnings, retiring and unretiring...it was time for him to go. Good riddance!

He was not kicked off the forum. He simply ceased to post. Here is his last post from 2010:

"I know in early 2008 I said I was signing off, however this time, this is the end. I have enjoyed my time posting here and being a regular contributor to this forum, I hope that some of my posts have been positive. I get I rubbed many here the wrong way and it most of the time was not my intent to do that. I tend to be very headstrong in my beliefs and I enjoyed presenting a different point of view and providing my analysis even if some did not agree with or like it. That is okay. That is what has always made this forum great.

I will forever enjoy and treasure the people I met through here, regardless if we liked each other or not, regardless if we stayed friends or not. I wish all of you and the board itself nothing but the best. However it is time for me to move on. Stuff has been happening in my personal life and in order to be a better person and be the best person I can be, it is time for me to remove myself from the forums and the blogs and focus on bettering myself. Some will think that is bullcrap but it is what it is and it is the truth.

If anyone wants to contact me, you can contact me anytime at Kadrmas15@hotmail.com otherwise I wish all of you the best and take care and have a Happy Thanksgiving, a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

-Kadrmas

Read more: http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?p=4492155#post4492155#ixzz1vZ7yP3kG"

He was not kicked off the forum. He simply ceased to post. Here is his last post from 2010:



I am the moderator so I should know. He was kicked off the forum.

Since UM showed loads of composite sketches through the years, I think it's worth asking if any users has seen anyone that matches with a composite sketch? Obviously this question pertains to the unsolved cases.

The only one I can think of is Oba Chandler and the Blind River Killer composite. It's kind of eerie how similar they look.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110911003527/unsolvedmysteries/images/thumb/f/f0/Gordon_jackie_mcallister3_suspect.jpg/180px-Gordon_jackie_mcallister3_suspect.jpg http://www2.sptimes.com/Angels_Demons/graphics/Chandler_mug_79.jpg

This quote is from the composite sketches thread. I agree 100%, Oba Chandler is just about identical to the Blind River suspect.

This quote is from the composite sketches thread. I agree 100%, Oba Chandler is just about identical to the Blind River suspect.

I have no idea if Chandler was the killer in the rest stop murders but I am glad that Chandler was finally put to death. What a terrible excuse for a human being.

I am the moderator so I should know. He was kicked off the forum.

He seemed like such a nice guy. Were his more inflammatory posts erased?

At any rate, I have never heard about such a horrible murder. He threw the woman over the boat ALIVE! How sick is that. The husband of the murder victim should be ashamed of himself, bailing his brother out of jail, after he raped his daughter. Sick! The mother did not want the husband to come along, since she wanted to get her daughter's mind off his creep rapist brother.

He seemed like such a nice guy. Were his more inflammatory posts erased?



Yes a lot of them were. He just couldn't discuss a case where people disagreed with him. He always turned it into an argument.

Yes a lot of them were. He just couldn't discuss a case where people disagreed with him. He always turned it into an argument.

I can attest to that fact. He once referred to me as a "dirt squirrel" in a pm. I had to look up what that meant, and it's essentially a synonym for "whore"--and that's all because of a series of very minor disagreements. He always seemed to have trouble not taking disagreements as personal affronts. I was far from the only one something like that happened to.

Sorry for straying OT, but yes, there was a definite reason he was removed.

Yes a lot of them were. He just couldn't discuss a case where people disagreed with him. He always turned it into an argument.

I can also attest to this as he berated me for Texas (my home state) executing inmates at such a high rate. As if I have anything to do with that.

I too apologize from straying away from the topic.

Kdarmas often had good information, but always had to pick a fight. Like if one of us said, "This murderer deserves execution," he would shout, "No one deserves that!" and nitpick everything. Too bad he couldn't handle things better because I like friendly debates. Recently, DarkDante had a different opinion on John Yount than I did and was very respectable about it, for example. So I'm glad I stayed on the forums for you guys who can debate constructive :)

Anyway, back to the Chandler case. I was quite pleased that they finally threw the book at him. This case is very difficult for me to watch and makes me sick to my stomach. If I was in LE working on this case, I would probably have many nightmares about it, especially the two young girls. The elder daughter, I can only imagine because she'd already been a rape victim. How horrible that it happened twice. And the younger daughter was so young and looked sweet, too. And the mother must have been horrified that she couldn't do anything to help her children. A wonderful vacation turned into this horrendous situation. As much as we yell at Florida for legal errors, they did the right thing in taking out this killer. Agree Hambone, a very, very pathetic excuse for a human being.

Okay. I have a friend (really I do-- if it were me, I'd say so) who went to France as an exchange student. While there, she took a private tour with a tour guide from a reputable company. The tour guide RAPED my friend during this tour.

By your logic, this would make my friend responsible for what happened to her. She was "hundreds of miles from home never having been out of her own neck of the woods" and she hired a tour guide (a total stranger) who raped her. She trusted him to a very big extent-- he was an employee of a reputable company that gave her a false sense of security.

I can NOT agree with your logic in good faith. It's never the fault of the victim. Yeah, maybe it was a mistake to have trusted Oba Chandler... but I guarantee you that more people than not WOULD have trusted him in that very situation. "Bad people" don't LOOK like "bad people." They look like everyday folks. Ted Bundy, anyone?

I know this is a super old post, but I'm so sorry about what happened to your friend. I really hope she was able to get this man put in jail. I was an exchange student in Europe myself and now feel really glad nothing like that happened (though I did get followed once and that could have ended up happening if I hadn't gotten away). Your friend was 100% not at fault. Agreed that these criminals often put on clever ruses to seem trustworthy. It's chilling, but many crimes are committed by people who just look plain normal, you're right. I often think of people who got hurt hitchhiking or picking up hitchers because they looked "normal." Ted Bundy is a good example. Also Loren Herzog if he really did kill the Swedish hitchhikers. I keep thinking of Silence of the Lambs where the guy uses a cast to seem vulnerable, which is well-based on real killers. It really is a shame that society still "blames the victim." No wonder many victims of assault don't want to come forward! It makes me sick. Was it advisable to get on the boat? No. But how many of us have taken risks that ended up just fine that COULD have turned out just as badly? I've taken wooded shortcuts and I've known people who have gotten in the car with strangers; we were all fine, but others have ended up worse. Plus, it is thought Chandler had accomplices, right? It could have seemed just fine and safe if he had friends on the boat who seemed nice and friendly.

Re: Kadrmas...good guy, very opinionated. I miss his posts.

Here's something he would probably tackle if he was here: was there any truth to Chandler's claims of innocence? I don't know much about the case aside from UM and some articles I read online. I would surmise he's guilty based on what little I've read but did his claims have any merit?

Re: Kadrmas...good guy, very opinionated. I miss his posts.

Here's something he would probably tackle if he was here: was there any truth to Chandler's claims of innocence? I don't know much about the case aside from UM and some articles I read online. I would surmise he's guilty based on what little I've read but did his claims have any merit?

I don't think he's innocent for a second. However, I've always wondered how he managed to subdue, tie up and rape three people on a boat. Then throw them off one by one. Seems like after the first went over, the next two may be fighting back. I've always suspected he may have had an accomplice. There were no wounds that would indicate blows to the head on any of the victims, so the thought that maybe he knocked them all out and then did this isn't medically possible in this case. The police investigated this theory and said that they feel confident he acted alone. I guess they know more than us but I still find it odd that he could do all of this alone.

I don't think he's innocent for a second. However, I've always wondered how he managed to subdue, tie up and rape three people on a boat. Then throw them off one by one. Seems like after the first went over, the next two may be fighting back. I've always suspected he may have had an accomplice. There were no wounds that would indicate blows to the head on any of the victims, so the thought that maybe he knocked them all out and then did this isn't medically possible in this case. The police investigated this theory and said that they feel confident he acted alone. I guess they know more than us but I still find it odd that he could do all of this alone.
Could he have had a gun and forced the women to bind each other, then he tied the last one up himself? I can see that possibly being the case if he did it alone. Otherwise, I think he needed an accomplice because they wouldn't have sat still while he tied one up, more than likely. No other injuries suggests to me that he had one or the other a gun or help.

I guess they all felt very vulnerable out there in the water,esp. if none of them could swim.what choice did they have but to go along with him?

I don't think he's innocent for a second. However, I've always wondered how he managed to subdue, tie up and rape three people on a boat. Then throw them off one by one. Seems like after the first went over, the next two may be fighting back. I've always suspected he may have had an accomplice. There were no wounds that would indicate blows to the head on any of the victims, so the thought that maybe he knocked them all out and then did this isn't medically possible in this case. The police investigated this theory and said that they feel confident he acted alone. I guess they know more than us but I still find it odd that he could do all of this alone.

I wonder as well. Who knows? I doubt Chandler would have given up the accomplices' name anyway even if he did exist. I suppose there are ways to tie up three vulnerable females without much of a fuss.

On another topic here, is this true that the father was bailing his brother out of jail for raping one of the girls, which I guess would have been his niece? If so, it sort of makes sense now because I always wondered why the father didnt go away with them. If this story is true, it sort of makes me feel a little less sorry for the father.

And with all the mudslinging a couple pages back about who's fault it was let's clear one thing up, it was Chandler's fault! Now, I get what the one adamant poster is saying when he is criticizing the mother. There are things you could have done differently for sure. I suppose this can work with many, many cases. Angela Hammond, Jane Boroski, the Swedish Hitchhikers, probably even Elizabeth Campbell too are examples of women who made poor decisions and might have been a little too trusting. Two of them were pregnant and were at phone booths late at night. Now, none of them deserved to be murdered of course, but if/when I have a daughter I don't think I could stress enough with her the decisions she will make that can put her in the POSITION to be murdered. I think the poster is being critical because the mother of the Chandler victims could have done things a little differently - maybe safer even.

But I understand their trusting qualities. Heck, they had just been to Disney World a day or two earlier, I am sure they figured they were on a pretty innocent trip.

Re: Kadrmas...good guy, very opinionated. I miss his posts.


Can't agree with you there. In fact, I echo the same sentiments as CD and Meg. I think it got to the point where he was picking fights daily over the most innocuous posts and seemed to have a personal problem with just about everyone on here, save for a few of the long-time regulars.

Several years ago, he sent me a friend request on fb and i stupidly accepted. He would constantly want to chat for HOURS in the middle of the night and was constantly cramming his beliefs down people's throats. I finally had enough and kicked him off, then a few hours later, I noticed his second retirement post here. I don't know if that was the sole reason he issued it, but I figured it may be one of the reasons. He sent me a scathing PM here on SO on CHRISTMAS DAY, so I blocked him here, and then he went on fb and called me a "low life whiny bitch and all and out scoundrel" and accused me, CD and Meg of bringing down the UM forum. He also sexually harassed me as well. I blocked him there too.

It's one thing to have a point of view from the defense side, but it's a completely other thing to be totally obnoxious and biased about it. He probably danced in the streets when Casey Anthony got off. He's nothing more than a stalker and harasser. Good riddance, he sucks.

Can't agree with you there. In fact, I echo the same sentiments as CD and Meg. I think it got to the point where he was picking fights daily over the most innocuous posts and seemed to have a personal problem with just about everyone on here, save for a few of the long-time regulars.

Several years ago, he sent me a friend request on fb and i stupidly accepted. He would constantly want to chat for HOURS in the middle of the night and was constantly cramming his beliefs down people's throats. I finally had enough and kicked him off, then a few hours later, I noticed his second retirement post here. I don't know if that was the sole reason he issued it, but I figured it may be one of the reasons. He sent me a scathing PM here on SO on CHRISTMAS DAY, so I blocked him here, and then he went on fb and called me a "low life whiny bitch and all and out scoundrel" and accused me, CD and Meg of bringing down the UM forum. He also sexually harassed me as well. I blocked him there too.

It's one thing to have a point of view from the defense side, but it's a completely other thing to be totally obnoxious and biased about it. He probably danced in the streets when Casey Anthony got off. He's nothing more than a stalker and harasser. Good riddance, he sucks.


I agree. He was a d1ck. I still think he's prolly trolling on here under an assumed name....maybe even posting under a new name.

Can't agree with you there. In fact, I echo the same sentiments as CD and Meg. I think it got to the point where he was picking fights daily over the most innocuous posts and seemed to have a personal problem with just about everyone on here, save for a few of the long-time regulars.

Several years ago, he sent me a friend request on fb and i stupidly accepted. He would constantly want to chat for HOURS in the middle of the night and was constantly cramming his beliefs down people's throats. I finally had enough and kicked him off, then a few hours later, I noticed his second retirement post here. I don't know if that was the sole reason he issued it, but I figured it may be one of the reasons. He sent me a scathing PM here on SO on CHRISTMAS DAY, so I blocked him here, and then he went on fb and called me a "low life whiny bitch and all and out scoundrel" and accused me, CD and Meg of bringing down the UM forum. He also sexually harassed me as well. I blocked him there too.

It's one thing to have a point of view from the defense side, but it's a completely other thing to be totally obnoxious and biased about it. He probably danced in the streets when Casey Anthony got off. He's nothing more than a stalker and harasser. Good riddance, he sucks.

What kind of beliefs did he try to ram down?

As far Oba goes his execution was long overdue!

Remember Oba Chander? Is that the most horrifying case EVER??

In my opinion, yes. My 3-year-old daughter pushed my 2-year-old son in the water while I was watching and I pulled him out immediately making his time under water less than three seconds. He came out screaming and terrified. I'm not completely sure what a drowning death would be like but it seems to me like it would be terrifying, especially if you had to watch other family members get thrown overboard before you were.

As much as I hate to say it, it really is Mrs.Rogers fault that she and her daughters were tortured and killed because you never trust a TOTAL stranger hundreds of miles from home even if he was a priest!!

I agree but after everything that happened I think Mrs. Rogers just said "Screw it, I'm going on a relaxing boat ride" after so much recent stress.

I know she's from a small town but that's even more reason she should've been wary of people from larger cities.

That sounds like discrimination against people who live in larger cities to me.

In my opinion, yes. My 3-year-old daughter pushed my 2-year-old son in the water while I was watching and I pulled him out immediately making his time under water less than three seconds. He came out screaming and terrified. I'm not completely sure what a drowning death would be like but it seems to me like it would be terrifying, especially if you had to watch other family members get thrown overboard before you were.



I agree but after everything that happened I think Mrs. Rogers just said "Screw it, I'm going on a relaxing boat ride" after so much recent stress.



That sounds like discrimination against people who live in larger cities to me.

Ok, I should've said don't trust total strangers regardless of big city or small city. There was just a story on the ID channel about a killer from the tiny town of Liberty, TX.

Yes, drowning is horrifying. Imagine your lungs filling up with fluid and you cannot breathe OR get the water out! Oba's execution was too kind! He should've gotten the chair!

Ok, I should've said don't trust total strangers regardless of big city or small city. There was just a story on the ID channel about a killer from the tiny town of Liberty, TX.

Yes, drowning is horrifying. Imagine your lungs filling up with fluid and you cannot breathe OR get the water out! Oba's execution was too kind! He should've gotten the chair!

Fair enough. I was somewhat kidding, I just think it's strange that it's "acceptable" to make generalizations, but "unacceptable" to make others.

Do you know how long the process of drowning takes before a person loses consciousness?

Blaming the mother for this is almost as nonsenscial as is blaming the earth, because, hey, if the water hadn't been there to begin with, they wouldn't have died in it! Ridiculous

This is still one of my favorite posts in this thread.

This is still one of my favorite posts in this thread.

NOT true at all! The mother should NOT have trusted a TOTAL stranger with the lives or her and her kids!!

Fair enough. I was somewhat kidding, I just think it's strange that it's "acceptable" to make generalizations, but "unacceptable" to make others.

Do you know how long the process of drowning takes before a person loses consciousness?

It depends on the person but I estimate 2 to 3 minutes of being underwater and swallowing water before you're knocked out.

NOT true at all! The mother should NOT have trusted a TOTAL stranger with the lives or her and her kids!!

Ok. I'll remember that next time I decide to do something crazy like board an airplane or go to a hospital for an operation. After all, that pilot and doctors and nurses are total strangers.

It depends on the person but I estimate 2 to 3 minutes of being underwater and swallowing water before you're knocked out.

If true, that's absolutely terrifying. My son was terrified after 2-3 seconds. Although he is two years old, but I think most people would react similarly. It would feel like an eternity. Oba Chandler was one sick man.

Ok. I'll remember that next time I decide to do something crazy like board an airplane or go to a hospital for an operation. After all, that pilot and doctors and nurses are total strangers.

That is VERY different! You are talking about professionals who have an entire support staff! I just took a plane flight and the pilot and crew are responsible for your safety and well being. Same with doctors, nurses, and PAs in a hospital.

Trusting a stranger with a pickup is COMPLETELY different!!

That is VERY different! You are talking about professionals who have an entire support staff! I just took a plane flight and the pilot and crew are responsible for your safety and well being. Same with doctors, nurses, and PAs in a hospital.

Trusting a stranger with a pickup is COMPLETELY different!!

No, not really. See, because it's reasonable to assume a person is not a sadistic, homicidal maniac who is going to torture, rape, and bind you, and then throw you into water to drown. Just as it's reasonable to assume a pilot and a medical professional would not intentionally kill you (I mean, what with their "support staff" and all). Crime is not considered typical behavior-- it's deviant and unexpected, and it's never a victim's burden to anticipate or avoid it.

It's not her fault; it's Oba Chandler's. I say you're wrong. You will continue to assert what you apparently felt from the day you generated this thread, and that's your right.

recall on UM,the police said she was likely apprached with the offer in a seemingly harmless way (of course) by someone who appeared to be quite normal.and indeed,if you look at the first vid of where oba was arrested,you wouldnt ever assume he was a killer.he looked like any normal,everyday person.that's where she made her mistake..

recall on UM,the police said she was likely apprached with the offer in a seemingly harmless way (of course) by someone who appeared to be quite normal.and indeed,if you look at the first vid of where oba was arrested,you wouldnt ever assume he was a killer.he looked like any normal,everyday person.that's where she made her mistake..

I'm glad you admitted she made a MISTAKE! That's an understatement since it cost her and her kids their lives!

I don't if he looks like bugs bunny you don't trust a total stranger who wants to take you to the middle of the ocean! Imagine the horror of the mom and girls when they realized Oba had turned on them!

Oba really is the poster child for the death penalty!

A lot of people on this thread have asked how he could have done this without an accomplice. How could he have tied one up without the other two attacking him? Well, after thinking about this, I believe this could be done quite easily by one person.
If he had a gun, all he would have to do is tell the three women to lay face down on the boat with their hands behind their back. This way, he could put the gun in his pocket or something and tie the women up one at a time. If the women are in that position, if one of them tried anything, he would have plenty of time to grab the gun from his pocket.

A lot of people on this thread have asked how he could have done this without an accomplice. How could he have tied one up without the other two attacking him? Well, after thinking about this, I believe this could be done quite easily by one person.
If he had a gun, all he would have to do is tell the three women to lay face down on the boat with their hands behind their back. This way, he could put the gun in his pocket or something and tie the women up one at a time. If the women are in that position, if one of them tried anything, he would have plenty of time to grab the gun from his pocket.
I think that's plausible and it's also possible he ordered one of them (probably the mother) to tie up the others at gunpoint before tying her up. He then could have checked the restraints to be sure they were tight. :(

I know Big3sCompanyFan has been banned, but I just want to say this: The only one responsible for this crime is the killer himself, Oba Chandler. When someone hitchhikes and the driver attacks them, who is at fault? The attacker. Period. Are we going to start saying it's the Orange Socks Murder victims' faults they got killed, too? :rolleyes:

I know Big3sCompanyFan has been banned, but I just want to say this: The only one responsible for this crime is the killer himself, Oba Chandler. When someone hitchhikes and the driver attacks them, who is at fault? The attacker. Period. Are we going to start saying it's the Orange Socks Murder victims' faults they got killed, too? :rolleyes:

When I had a few things to say the other day about this case, I bumped up one of the other threads on this subject, simply because I didn't want to relive Big3sCompanyFan's 80 million posts about how Joan Rodgers was to blame for this. Sadly, I see someone else has resurrected this thread.

DNA has connected Oba Chandler to another cold case murder from 1990, after the Rogers family was killed.

Ivelisse Berrios Beguerisse, who was 20 years old, was found murdered on the side of the road in Coral Springs FL on November 27, 1990. She worked at a mall. Her car was found in the parking lot with the tires slashed. Police believed Chandler used his helpful good samaritan routine to offer her a ride after she got off work and discovered that her car had been disabled.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2567546/Man-executed-triple-rape-murder-mother-teenage-daughters-1989-named-killer-woman-year-later.html

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/1990-Cold-Case-Murder-Solved-Coral-Springs-Police-Say-247000791.html

Chilling. Oba Chandler was truly one of the worst.

Hopefully we don't have to go through another few pages about how this person was to blame for letting Chandler kill her.

Chilling. Oba Chandler was truly one of the worst.

Hopefully we don't have to go through another few pages about how this person was to blame for letting Chandler kill her.

we shouldn't have to worry about it. That idiotic poster was finally banned a short time ago.

I think most of us suspected his crime wasn't an isolated incident. I wonder how many more victims he had.

Good grief! I just went back and read through the whole thread.

If I'd realized what a negative discussion this was, I wouldn't have chosen this thread to add the new Oba Chandler info.

I just picked this one because his name was in the title and I figured it would be better to post this info here, rather than in a thread devoted to the Rogers family. Sorry I bumped this thread. Wish I would have looked harder for a better one or started one of my own. :(

In regards to having an accomplice, I would go with the most simplest answer. (I can't believe I registered just for this post)

They were found bound up without any bottoms on right? You take the gun out and threaten the mom. The two daughters aren't going to do anything because they are too afraid. Now, either you tie up the mom first and have your way with her, or just have your way with her in front of the kids.

After you're done with one, either tie them up or, if they are already tied up, push them off to the side and move onto the next one. It would be awfully hard to get their clothes off once they are tied up but (as nicely as I can put this) the logistics of doing the act seems expedited by that fact.

In regards to having an accomplice, I would go with the most simplest answer. (I can't believe I registered just for this post)

They were found bound up without any bottoms on right? You take the gun out and threaten the mom. The two daughters aren't going to do anything because they are too afraid. Now, either you tie up the mom first and have your way with her, or just have your way with her in front of the kids.

After you're done with one, either tie them up or, if they are already tied up, push them off to the side and move onto the next one. It would be awfully hard to get their clothes off once they are tied up but (as nicely as I can put this) the logistics of doing the act seems expedited by that fact.

dude............disturbing

I'm rewatching all of the shows, and I'm now at season seven. But this one continues to haunt my thoughts.

It's just.... the thought of brutally raping three innocent and naive women from the country who he just met then killing them in one of the most excruciating manners that one can die (drowning)..... If there is a Hell, and it has levels of descent, he will get placed directly alongside Hitler.

Find it hard to believe this was that vermin's first murder, especially with his background.

There were obviously many murders showcased on UM but this was probably the worst because not only is there no real motive for murder but it involved a mother AND her children. At least with both murders there is a motive, whether it be drugs, money or love. This is just a random act of senseless and brutal violence that could have happened to ANYONE. The details are just downright disturbing too so I won't repeat them here.

I've heard the claim that the Mrs. Rogers put her children in danger and is partially responsible but nobody would have suspected that would have happened. More than once my family took a very small ferry ride including once in a foreign country (France) and I never once felt any danger. I just would have assumed he was running a small business if I were in her shoes, especially given she wasn't from the area and he presented as a friendly grandfather like man. Remember too that both daughters were teenagers at the time too and they obviously never felt uncomfortable either. Chandler is just a monster that was killed in a much more humane way than his victims were.

What's interesting is that the "obvious" suspect, the children's uncle (or father) was completely innocent and it sounds like the whole reason they were on vacation was to escape the aftermath of sexual abuse. There is a good possibility that one them could have been charged for something they didn't do given their pasts and Oba would have been free to continue his killing spree. How sad.

Chandler is just a monster that was killed in a much more humane way than his victims were.

^This, 1,000%

He should've been put to death the same way.

There were obviously many murders showcased on UM but this was probably the worst because not only is there no real motive for murder but it involved a mother AND her children. At least with both murders there is a motive, whether it be drugs, money or love. This is just a random act of senseless and brutal violence that could have happened to ANYONE. The details are just downright disturbing too so I won't repeat them here.


All three were partially dressed-so no doubt his main reason was sexual, then he had zero interest in letting them live to identify him. Ties in with his prior assault on a woman a fortnight or so earlier which led to his capture-she is convinced that if she hadn't had somebody waiting for her back at shore & made him aware of this that she would have ended up dead in the water as well.

Oba Chandler is to blame. Period. We know this. The mother didn't make the best decision in the world, but like others have said, she was probably quite trusting and I am sure Oba was convincing. What is worse is that the father didn't accompany them on the trip (working I assume?) and imagine having to live with that the rest of your life knowing if you were there no one dies or is even in that position. He seems to have carried on with life and re-married and either had some more kids or inherited some step-children, I can't remember, but I do remember him talking in an interview and sounding a lot more upbeat than I think I ever would. He had one of those attitudes that what happened was horrible to him but he owed it to his family to keep on living. Good for him.

I know 1989 wasn't all that long ago, but people did trust each other more 35 years ago. There was certainly less paranoia. Would I want my wife and daughters to do something like this if I wasn't around? Heck no, especially with a complete stranger. If they go out on a boat tour it had better be with a reputable company, not just some stranger. But like I said, a slip up that it may have been to trust this guy, he was the killer in the end, no one else.

On a less serious note, reading some of these posts reminded me of Dan Quayle's supposed quote about the 1992 LA Riots
"When I have been asked during these last weeks who caused the riots and the killing in L.A., my answer has been direct and simple: Who is to blame for the riots? The rioters are to blame. Who is to blame for the killings? The killers are to blame."

It wasn't Mrs. Rogers "fault". Was it poor judgment to go out on a boat with a complete stranger with nobody else there? Yea I'm sure it was but don't say it waa her fault. He deserved to die and he didn't get a single visitor the entire 17 years he was on death row. Good.

It wasn't Mrs. Rogers "fault". Was it poor judgment to go out on a boat with a complete stranger with nobody else there? Yea I'm sure it was but don't say it was her fault. He deserved to die and he didn't get a single visitor the entire 17 years he was on death row. Good.

Many people do dumb things every day and exercise poor judgment every day. In many cases way more so than this action by Mrs Rogers. They don't wind up floating dead in a bay murdered and sexually assaulted. This was a heinous crime in every sense of the word and a horrible tragedy and should not be looked at as anything but that. Chandler got exactly what he deserved. Better than what he deserved really, had a way better life and ten times more than what he deserved to.

Oba Chandler is to blame. Period. We know this. The mother didn't make the best decision in the world, but like others have said, she was probably quite trusting and I am sure Oba was convincing. What is worse is that the father didn't accompany them on the trip (working I assume?) and imagine having to live with that the rest of your life knowing if you were there no one dies or is even in that position. He seems to have carried on with life and re-married and either had some more kids or inherited some step-children, I can't remember, but I do remember him talking in an interview and sounding a lot more upbeat than I think I ever would. He had one of those attitudes that what happened was horrible to him but he owed it to his family to keep on living. Good for him.

I know 1989 wasn't all that long ago, but people did trust each other more 35 years ago. There was certainly less paranoia. Would I want my wife and daughters to do something like this if I wasn't around? Heck no, especially with a complete stranger. If they go out on a boat tour it had better be with a reputable company, not just some stranger. But like I said, a slip up that it may have been to trust this guy, he was the killer in the end, no one else.

Hal Rogers not only come off as rather cold and uncaring, but supposedly there was a previous sexual assault within the family involving the older daughter and another family member from Hal's side. And supposedly Hal actually posted bond for him to get out of jail, something he was widely criticized for which he excused as fulfilling a promise to the family.

From what I can gather, it was part of the reason the women had this trip when they did to get away from him for awhile due to them being unhappy with him for doing so and away from that situation.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying any of this was Hal's fault or that I lack sympathy for him. But he was sort of an odd man with some strange priorities. Yeah he ran a dairy farm and that's an extremely difficult job, but sorry family comes first. Its a pretty good bet had he been with them none of this would have happened. Chandler probably would not have even targeted them if he'd been along and even if he had tried the whole thing likely would have ended very differently.

Again, not trashing him that much as I'm sure he felt horrible about the whole thing and knew all this in the end. Still though, certain things do sort of cool your sympathy a bit for him if only a little.

There are some men, my dad was one of them, that run their own small businesses and they either don’t have anyone, or don’t feel anyone is good enough to be in charge of the business. Therefore they never take anytime off from the business. My dad worked 7 days a week, only taking an occasional Sunday off. If my mother and I got a vacation, we went alone with other family members. Hal Rogers comes off as one of these types to me.

Hal was a farmer who worked himself with no help. Taking even a day off, much less an entire week to drive down to Florida wasn't at all feasible. There was never anything out of the ordinary about that.

And the unfortunate sexual assault by Hal's brother to Michelle was clearly horrible. Especially since Hal's mother, Michelle's own grandmother, chose to not believe it and actually called Michelle a liar to her face. The trip to Florida was supposed to be an escape from the drama the family had just endured. Little did they know.

And if you want to talk haunting pictures, this photo was taken of Michelle in their hotel room just before they left to meet Oba Chandler for the boat ride....

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ledejs/resized/angels-and-demons/600/michelle-staring-into-camera-264988.jpg

I'm sure it's been mentioned, but I highly recommend reading the Tampa Bay article about the case. It goes into quite a lot of detail and tells us more about who Jo, Michelle, and Christe were, not just about the terrible things that happened to them. They deserve to be remembered as more than victims of a heinous crime. The articles also talk about the scrutiny on Hal and his point of view.

I'm glad this crime was solved and justice was done.

https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/classics/angels-and-demons/#chapters

I'm sure it's been mentioned, but I highly recommend reading the Tampa Bay article about the case. It goes into quite a lot of detail and tells us more about who Jo, Michelle, and Christe were, not just about the terrible things that happened to them. They deserve to be remembered as more than victims of a heinous crime. The articles also talk about the scrutiny on Hal and his point of view.

I'm glad this crime was solved and justice was done.

https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/classics/angels-and-demons/#chapters

That was very enlightening, thanks for posting. Certainly changed my opinion of Hal Rogers. He came off as rather cold from everything I'd heard before, but it seems he really wasn't, seems he did really love and care for his family and was just as devastated as you'd expect, he just wasn't the type of guy who wore his emotions on his sleeve and that's pretty much all there was to it. And it was also surprising that despite posting bond for his brother he was in fact enraged at him over Michelle and still is. I read he blamed him for what happened to Joan, Michelle, and Christy as much as he blamed Oba Chandler!

I still think he should have gone with them, and he even admitted it. The article even admitted he had friends who often helped him on the farm, no way you'd ever convince me they couldn't have managed things for a few days. If he had, like I said this probably never would have happened. Oba Chandler was a pretty big strong guy granted, but he still would probably have moved on to easier prey rather than taking his chances with Hal. But then again, other innocent women might have become victims.

But he definitely deserved all the sympathy in the world and not the suspicion he got and still does.

Hal was a farmer who worked himself with no help. Taking even a day off, much less an entire week to drive down to Florida wasn't at all feasible. There was never anything out of the ordinary about that.

And the unfortunate sexual assault by Hal's brother to Michelle was clearly horrible. Especially since Hal's mother, Michelle's own grandmother, chose to not believe it and actually called Michelle a liar to her face. The trip to Florida was supposed to be an escape from the drama the family had just endured. Little did they know.

And if you want to talk haunting pictures, this photo was taken of Michelle in their hotel room just before they left to meet Oba Chandler for the boat ride....

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ledejs/resized/angels-and-demons/600/michelle-staring-into-camera-264988.jpg

She's cute. If I'm 18 or so..........................I probably am still too shy to talk to her but I would want to talk to her at least.

For those who have Peacock:

There is a true crime series streaming on Peacock called, "Family Massacre." The Rogers Family is the last episode in Season 1 (only season). It's quite good, showing many police photographs of the case, interviewing the detectives and prosecutor, and showing snippets of Oba Chandler's trial. It exceeded my expectations.

The point is, when a lifeless body is in the water for an extended period of time it might become impossible to determine if they drowned or not. Water will make its way into the lungs and every other opening it finds as the natural decomposition process start to deteriorate the body. If you are already dead you would not be inhaling water into the lungs, however nothing is going to impede the water filling up those lungs once life is ended. Perhaps their is a pneumothorax? Maybe the deteriorating process, the exact process of which I am admittedly, and thankfully, unfamiliar with, tears at the lung and water fills? Who knows?

Sorry for bringing up an old post, but I had to comment on this.

The person who performs the autopsy can always tell if a person drowned, or was dead by the time they hit the water. When a person drowns, their lungs fill up completely with water, to the point, there will be damage to them.Large amounts of froth will be present around the mouth and nostrils and in the upper and lower airways in drowned bodies. If a person is dead before they hit the water, there will be little to no water in the lungs.

So this statement is blatantly false.

That was very enlightening, thanks for posting. Certainly changed my opinion of Hal Rogers. He came off as rather cold from everything I'd heard before, but it seems he really wasn't, seems he did really love and care for his family and was just as devastated as you'd expect, he just wasn't the type of guy who wore his emotions on his sleeve and that's pretty much all there was to it. And it was also surprising that despite posting bond for his brother he was in fact enraged at him over Michelle and still is. I read he blamed him for what happened to Joan, Michelle, and Christy as much as he blamed Oba Chandler!
.

I read the articles in the Tampa Bay newspaper online over a decade ago. You are right that it was incredibly detailed, and well done. It should be noted that a few months before the murders, two Canadian women from Ontario went to the boat dock. One women got on with Oba, and the other stayed behind. Oba raped the young Canadian women, who later turned out to be the Prosecution's star wittness, and her testimony was instrumental in convicting Oba Chandler.

It should also be noted that Hal not only cut ties with his brother, but refused to sit anywhere near his own mother, since she took the brothers side in the rape of his daughter. From what I remember, Hal cut ties with both of them, and never spoke to either one again.

Hal Rogers not only come off as rather cold and uncaring, but supposedly there was a previous sexual assault within the family involving the older daughter and another family member from Hal's side. And supposedly Hal actually posted bond for him to get out of jail, something he was widely criticized for which he excused as fulfilling a promise to the family.

IIRC, Hal's brother had asked Hal to bail him out of jail before Hal knew the specifics of what happened. Hal was a man who absolutely never went back on his word, and once he discovered the full gravity of the situation, he was furious at his brother, but being a man of his word to an absolute fault, he kept his word.


From what I can gather, it was part of the reason the women had this trip when they did to get away from him for awhile due to them being unhappy with him for doing so and away from that situation.

From what I recall reading, the Mother and daughters went to Florida mainly to get away from the small town gossip that was prevalent in the community at the time, at least until it blew over.

From what I recall reading, the Mother and daughters went to Florida mainly to get away from the small town gossip that was prevalent in the community at the time, at least until it blew over.

I watched the 'Family Massacre' episode about this case from Oxygen the other day and they stated that the vacation had been planned for a couple years when they finally took it. The Rogers family had never taken a vacation before. At least not since the children were born 17 years earlier. So this was a big deal for them to do this at all. Given the drama that had happened with Hal's brother, it was natural for them to want to take the vacation at that time.

And speaking of Hal's worthless brother, it was also stated that him sexually assaulting Michelle was not a one-time thing. He did it several times. Scum. :mad:

RE: Hal -- they covered this case on an episode of Forensic Files and IMO he looks even worse than he did in the UM segment. The police say as such in the segment, remarking how he was more worried about running the dairy farm than reporting their missing to the police several days later. He also has hints of a smile on his face the entire time he is on camera.