Please read:

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/blog/2007/10/abc-fall-pilot-review-samantha-who.html

...then discuss.

Fox is a culprit of this too. I know they've done it with Idol in the past. I agree with the idea that they do this to say "so many people are watching, give it a shot if you haven't" so they can get more viewers. I don't really like it. It's really not honest. People are going to watch based on their own decision to. I may gain interest to try a new show if a friend or someone I know watched it and wants me to try it because they liked it and think I probably will also, but I'm not becoming an instant fan just because 45 million or how many other people are watching a certain show.

To me though it does explain the pattern of "(insert flop show name here) is a MEGA HIT! WATCH NOW!", then in a few weeks, the show in question is gone and the cause of cancellation will be low ratings.

Fox is a culprit of this too. I know they've done it with Idol in the past. I agree with the idea that they do this to say "so many people are watching, give it a shot if you haven't" so they can get more viewers. I don't really like it. It's really not honest. People are going to watch based on their own decision to. I may gain interest to try a new show if a friend or someone I know watched it and wants me to try it because they liked it and think I probably will also, but I'm not becoming an instant fan just because 45 million or how many other people are watching a certain show.

To me though it does explain the pattern of "(insert flop show name here) is a MEGA HIT! WATCH NOW!", then in a few weeks, the show in question is gone and the cause of cancellation will be low ratings.


And when I heard 27 million I was like-"Wait, that's a Superbowl Number"-lol Whatever, tell me what's really happening

They really shouldn't be doing that. But I guess they assume that if at some point there were 27 million then it's not really lying, even if the average for the hour was much lower.

Other channels do stuff like "Seinfeld, tonight at 6:30 ONLY on Fox 44"
Who are they kidding? I hate when they do that with shows that are actually on like billions of channels and they try and claim ONLY on their station.

ABC lies . They also run hit shows over the hour so the weak one will have inflated ratings. I hate when they do that and it never stops me from changing the channel.

And when I heard 27 million I was like-"Wait, that's a Superbowl Number"-lol Whatever, tell me what's really happening

Super Bowl gets 90 million.

ABC lies . They also run hit shows over the hour so the weak one will have inflated ratings. I hate when they do that and it never stops me from changing the channel.

Ratings are calculated by a show, not the time period. Like Grey's Anatomy ran until 10:03 this week, the rating for 10pm-10:03 was for Grey's Anatomy, not the show following it, in this case Big Shots.

All networks do it really. NBC and Fox too. CBS and The CW I think don't or not nearly as much.

Super Bowl gets 90 million.


Well maybe it's the NBA finals I was thinking about

Ratings are calculated by a show, not the time period. Like Grey's Anatomy ran until 10:03 this week, the rating for 10pm-10:03 was for Grey's Anatomy, not the show following it, in this case Big Shots.

All networks do it really. NBC and Fox too. CBS and The CW I think don't or not nearly as much.
i think that the REAL reason the networks run shows past the hour or start before the hour is so that if you watch the "hit" shows, then you are kinda stuck with the decision of missing the first/last minutes of a show on another channel or keep it on the same channel to watch a dud - all so they can boost the ratings of the "duds"

In the case of Pushing Daisies, it was only 13 million for its first airing but there was a Friday airing that might've had around the inital number--than again, Friday is a fairly low-rated night so I may be incorrect. Or DVR, ABC.com, etc...they may be counting all of that. This is just a theory. It may not be correct (especially with Friday) but it may possibly be. Or you guys may be correct and it may be a lie.

Ratings are calculated by a show, not the time period. Like Grey's Anatomy ran until 10:03 this week, the rating for 10pm-10:03 was for Grey's Anatomy, not the show following it, in this case Big Shots.

All networks do it really. NBC and Fox too. CBS and The CW I think don't or not nearly as much.
NBC and FOX haven't done it this season that I have seen and I watch a lot of shows on those channels ( though I know NBC has done it in the past). No matter though it is very rude to do that to their viewing audience. It has never made me stay and watch a show I didn't want to watch.

In the case of Pushing Daisies, it was only 13 million for its first airing but there was a Friday airing that might've had around the inital number--than again, Friday is a fairly low-rated night so I may be incorrect. Or DVR, ABC.com, etc...they may be counting all of that. This is just a theory. It may not be correct (especially with Friday) but it may possibly be. Or you guys may be correct and it may be a lie.

Solomon explained in the rant what the 27 million meant. At least 27 million sampled the premiere on Wednesday, Oct. 3. Sampled means they watched at least 5 minutes. Over 13 million watched the entire full hour on average.

So, 27 million is right since they saw at least 5 minutes of it, just as Solomon said, tricky.

NBC and FOX haven't done it this season that I have seen and I watch a lot of shows on those channels ( though I know NBC has done it in the past). No matter though it is very rude to do that to their viewing audience. It has never made me stay and watch a show I didn't want to watch.

Yeah, NBC and Fox haven't done yet this season. Fox does it a lot when American Idol comes. ABC has only done it post GA (2 or 3 min extra) and post DWTS (2 min usually, though we did have an extra 6 min once) so far. And I think a minor minute or two after DH and PP. Those episodes that go until 2 or 3 minutes after usually do have an extra minute or two added in footage, so that is a plus I guess. Like on November 1, Grey's Anatomy will run until 10:07. So we will get actually more than the usual 43 minutes, close to 46 minutes for that episode. So the next show after that will either have less commercials or their minutes will go down a bit.

I'd have to say this is one of your best rants yet, Solomon. It's something no one really pays much attention about, but now have a whole discussion on it. I saw that promo too, and almost posted about it at one of the boards, but decided not too. I don't really see how saying 27 million is gonna persuade anyone to watch the show, anyways. Who cares if 27 million watched, or if 13 million watched . . . if people really want to see PD, then they'll tune in.

Fox has already been doing the same thing with BTY and TD. For commercials before ths how starts, they're saying it's the night's most watched hour of comedy. Of course it is . . . they're the only comedies on that night-LOL. FOX has also done it with AI in the past a lot of times.

My boyfriend was one of those "27 million" people who watched that Pushing Daisies. I watched the first five minutes and I couldn't stand it anymore. Hearing that narration, and the glossy-looking (computer-generated) coloring, etc. just bored me. I immediately left the room and went to watch something better (anything).

My boyfriend was one of those "27 million" people who watched that Pushing Daisies. I watched the first five minutes and I couldn't stand it anymore. Hearing that narration, and the glossy-looking (computer-generated) coloring, etc. just bored me. I immediately left the room and went to watch something better (anything).

I Tivo'd the Pilot, and I still haven't watched it after 1 and a half weeks.
I don't plan on watching it, either.

Well maybe it's the NBA finals I was thinking about

NBA Finals wishes it gets 27 million. It depends on the teams for the NBA, MLB championships. NBA Finals are usually lucky if it gets 15 million. World Series hasn't done that well since the Yankees were in it, but it has been higher rated than the NBA Finals.

27 million has been reached by many series the last few seasons, obviously American Idol, CSI, Grey's Anatomy, Desperate Housewives, and Dancing with the Stars have had 27 million+ episodes in the past. And no, that is not the sample thing, lol.

I'd have to say this is one of your best rants yet, Solomon. It's something no one really pays much attention about, but now have a whole discussion on it. I saw that promo too, and almost posted about it at one of the boards, but decided not too. I don't really see how saying 27 million is gonna persuade anyone to watch the show, anyways. Who cares if 27 million watched, or if 13 million watched . . . if people really want to see PD, then they'll tune in.

Fox has already been doing the same thing with BTY and TD. For commercials before ths how starts, they're saying it's the night's most watched hour of comedy. Of course it is . . . they're the only comedies on that night-LOL. FOX has also done it with AI in the past a lot of times.


Well, this has been going on for awhile. I remember when Lost debuted. The sample number was 30 million, the promo indicated that. I know of someone who saw that and said, "I must have missed something big." Now that guy is a Lost fan. So it does work, lol.

ABC and Fox have the best promos. They are creative. At times though, they trick with the wordings without actually lying (like the sample viewers and #1 new hour of comedy, etc). NBC is not bad either. CBS always has had dull promos. They'd just say, "Two and a Half Men, CBS Monday." And the graphics suck, too. Graphics wise ABC and NBC are probably the best.

I Tivo'd the Pilot, and I still haven't watched it after 1 and a half weeks.
I don't plan on watching it, either.


I did the same, I recorded it and just didn't find time to watch it-lol

Out of all the new shows, I think Pushing Daisies and Dirty Sexy Money are miles ahead. Both are very unique. Give them a try. Not just 5 minutes. PD's second episode was even better than the pilot.

Solomon explained in the rant what the 27 million meant. At least 27 million sampled the premiere on Wednesday, Oct. 3. Sampled means they watched at least 5 minutes. Over 13 million watched the entire full hour on average.

So, 27 million is right since they saw at least 5 minutes of it, just as Solomon said, tricky.
Oh I get you now.

RE:PD:Only saw last five minutes of pilot. EDIT:Actually, I saw the first ten minutes or so of the show online. Second episode....saw a minute or two. I'll have to watch them full online.

Out of all the new shows, I think Pushing Daisies and Dirty Sexy Money are miles ahead. Both are very unique. Give them a try. Not just 5 minutes. PD's second episode was even better than the pilot.
I probably seen more than five minutes, because I seen as far as when the boy became an adult and the narrator was talking abt how if he touches something, it will die...blah blah blah.

The second episode my boyfriend was watching it again, and again I hear that narration going on. God, that alone kept me from even looking at that show again. Such a turn-off.

I probably seen more than five minutes, because I seen as far as when the boy became an adult and the narrator was talking abt how if he touches something, it will die...blah blah blah.

The second episode my boyfriend was watching it again, and again I hear that narration going on. God, that alone kept me from even looking at that show again. Such a turn-off.


So the narration is similar to how it is on desprate housewives?

I don't watch DH. Never have. I haven't a clue. But hearing someone narrate for over five minutes when there is no other dialogue going on is just a turn-off for me.

Pushing Daisies IMO is the best new show of the season (and there are several decent newbies this year), but I can see where one who doesn't like narration would be annoyed. I loved Sex And The City and my interest in Desperate Housewives comes and goes, so both of those series have made me used to narration scenes since they're so narrator-heavy. I find the concept to be very interesting and I like the characters (especially Kristen Chenowith). I think PD is very quirky and likable, even tho I just hope the show doesn't get old fast.

CBS has been even worse than ABC in this case. I remember a year or two back, some series was pimped as having 62 million viewers. 62 million is more than Friends and Raymond got for their SERIES FINALES, yea right. It was probably 6.2 million average viewers over ten weeks.

Pushing Daisies IMO is the best new show of the season (and there are several decent newbies this year), but I can see where one who doesn't like narration would be annoyed. I loved Sex And The City and my interest in Desperate Housewives comes and goes, so both of those series have made me used to narration scenes since they're so narrator-heavy. I find the concept to be very interesting and I like the characters (especially Kristen Chenowith). I think PD is very quirky and likable, even tho I just hope the show doesn't get old fast.

CBS has been even worse than ABC in this case. I remember a year or two back, some series was pimped as having 62 million viewers. 62 million is more than Friends and Raymond got for their SERIES FINALES, yea right. It was probably 6.2 million average viewers over ten weeks.


I think it's kind of stupid for a network mention it's own success-lol Just focusing on promting the show, not give viewers a report onyour own numbers

I think it's kind of stupid for a network mention it's own success-lol Just focusing on promting the show, not give viewers a report onyour own numbers

I feel the same way. I can see Pavan's point in doing it to get more viewers, but I still don't really see how saying 27 million people watched it will change anyone's opinion instead of saying 13 million people watchd it.

CBS's promos are very dull. I've been watching BBT (one of the few shows on CBS I watch) and the promos practically put me to sleep. I guess creativity is the biggest thing in promoting a show!

I watch a show merely for entertainment. Whether it has 27 million viewers or 270 viewers, if I like it, I am watching it. American Idol gets a lot of viewers, doesn't make me watch it. Desperate Housewives obviously pulls in a great viewership, doesn't make me want to watch it. I watch a show and if it doesn't grab my attention immediately (within the first 15 minutes) I am not watching it. Just like any show I would watch, if after awhile it doesn't grab my attention like it used to (Lost, Prison Break), then I am dropping that show.

Obviously,"Caveman" AND (to a lesser extent)"Carpoolers" are NOT doing well in the ratings,(and I expect "Caveman"to be cancelled at midseason-"Carpoolers"MIGHT last the whole season),because ABC is obviously trying to woo the viewers it had on the premiere,because NOW they say in their ads for the shows"Get to know Caveman and Carpoolers".If NOBODY watches either show,I wonder what they will say next when promoting the series'?

I watch a show merely for entertainment. Whether it has 27 million viewers or 270 viewers, if I like it, I am watching it. American Idol gets a lot of viewers, doesn't make me watch it. Desperate Housewives obviously pulls in a great viewership, doesn't make me want to watch it. I watch a show and if it doesn't grab my attention immediately (within the first 15 minutes) I am not watching it. Just like any show I would watch, if after awhile it doesn't grab my attention like it used to (Lost, Prison Break), then I am dropping that show.


ABC thinks wants us to be FOLLOWERS-lol

I watch a show merely for entertainment. Whether it has 27 million viewers or 270 viewers, if I like it, I am watching it. American Idol gets a lot of viewers, doesn't make me watch it. Desperate Housewives obviously pulls in a great viewership, doesn't make me want to watch it. I watch a show and if it doesn't grab my attention immediately (within the first 15 minutes) I am not watching it. Just like any show I would watch, if after awhile it doesn't grab my attention like it used to (Lost, Prison Break), then I am dropping that show.

I feel the same way. Desperate Housewives has not yet grabbed my viewership over the course of it's 3 years on the air. It just doesn't interest me, and it never will. I onoly watched Lost during it's first season on the air, but I haven't watched it since. The storylines is really running thin, and they've got too many different storylines going on at the same time.

If a show got 270 million viewers and I didn't tune in to see it, I'd make sure to watch the next episode so I wouldn't like a complete moron-LOL

I feel the same way. Desperate Housewives has not yet grabbed my viewership over the course of it's 3 years on the air. It just doesn't interest me, and it never will. I onoly watched Lost during it's first season on the air, but I haven't watched it since. The storylines is really running thin, and they've got too many different storylines going on at the same time.

If a show got 270 million viewers and I didn't tune in to see it, I'd make sure to watch the next episode so I wouldn't like a complete moron-LOL



My local ABC affiliate is doing the same thing-lol I was watching the news today and Jerry Oconnell from Carpoolers was going to be interviewed and the

Anchor said-"When we return we will talk with Jerry Oconner, from the New Hit Comedy, Carpoolers"


LOL

My local ABC affiliate is doing the same thing-lol I was watching the news today and Jerry Oconnell from Carpoolers was going to be interviewed and the

Anchor said-"When we return we will talk with Jerry Oconner, from the New Hit Comedy, Carpoolers"


LOL

Hit comedy-LOL. It had the biggest drop so far from first to second episode (not counting Cavemen, because I just hate that show). If they consider that to be a hit, I don't know what else would be.

My local programming's advertising is the same way. When I was watching my local CW yesterday evening and I saw an ad for George Lopez, saying "TV's funniest family is back every day at 2:30" and I just had to laugh at that one.

Hit comedy-LOL. It had the biggest drop so far from first to second episode (not counting Cavemen, because I just hate that show). If they consider that to be a hit, I don't know what else would be.

My local programming's advertising is the same way. When I was watching my local CW yesterday evening and I saw an ad for George Lopez, saying "TV's funniest family is back every day at 2:30" and I just had to laugh at that one.



OK that's what a friend of mine meant when he was saying GL came on in the afternoon. So I guess he was talking about CW

OK that's what a friend of mine meant when he was saying GL came on in the afternoon. So I guess he was talking about CW

It's on my local CW every weekday afternoon at 2:30.

I've realized that most of ABC's promos and press releases are very misleading.

And obviously "Kid Nation"is not doing well,either because on its second airing,CBS ,in itas promos,said something to the effect that it was "the #1 new show.",or something like that.NOW,its 4 weeks,and CBS only promotes the show by telling you with teasers what's going to happen on next weeks show.So what does that tell you?Obviously,"Kid Nation"is floundering,also.

And obviously "Kid Nation"is not doing well,either because on its second airing,CBS ,in itas promos,said something to the effect that it was "the #1 new show.",or something like that.NOW,its 4 weeks,and CBS only promotes the show by telling you with teasers what's going to happen on next weeks show.So what does that tell you?Obviously,"Kid Nation"is floundering,also.

No, they do the same thing in promoting Survivor. While it still is a very successful show, they don't prmote by saying it's the number 1 reality show, just by giving us teasers for the next episode.

But, Kid Nation is doing pretty badly. Last airing only managed a little more than Back to You did, which isn't too good. It's even doing worse than that Pirate show in the summer. If a show is doing better than in the summer than a same-type show in the fall, and the summer show was cancelled early, something isn't right.

I feel the same way. Desperate Housewives has not yet grabbed my viewership over the course of it's 3 years on the air. It just doesn't interest me, and it never will.

wow, you missed a Jackie and Fisher reunion last season

wow, you missed a Jackie and Fisher reunion last season

In Desperate Housewives? Doesn't matter . . . it is good to see Laurie Metcalf still acting on TV, though. Now, if Roseanne was on a show about beautiful, overly-skinny housewives, I'd be the first one to watch-LOL

In Desperate Housewives? Doesn't matter . . . it is good to see Laurie Metcalf still acting on TV, though. Now, if Roseanne was on a show about beautiful, overly-skinny housewives, I'd be the first one to watch-LOL
I agree. I love Laurie and Roseanne but I just can't fathom watching DH for any reason.

I agree. I love Laurie and Roseanne but I just can't fathom watching DH for any reason.

Did you catch Laurie in BBT Monday night? She was awesome in that episode . . . now I remember how good of an actress she really is. I'm hoping to see more of her soon.

Desperate Housewives isn't that bad of a show. I'll be the first to admit that last season sucked so badly I quit watching it, but this season is back to the quality the first season had. It's overrated and overhyped (or at least WAS overhyped, media has pretty much gotten over the show), but there are worse things you could be watching on Sunday nights.

Desperate Housewives isn't that bad of a show. I'll be the first to admit that last season sucked so badly I quit watching it, but this season is back to the quality the first season had. It's overrated and overhyped (or at least WAS overhyped, media has pretty much gotten over the show), but there are worse things you could be watching on Sunday nights.

I don't watch any show on Sunday night. I just don't like that type of primtime soap opera stuff. That, and Grey's Anatomy. I just don't understand how some people can honestly sit through an entire hour of those shows.

Yeah, nowadays you don't hear a thing on Desperate Housewives. People just know it's on Sunday nights, and it's still one of the most watched shows on telelvision.

I don't watch any show on Sunday night. I just don't like that type of primtime soap opera stuff. That, and Grey's Anatomy. I just don't understand how some people can honestly sit through an entire hour of those shows.

Yeah, nowadays you don't hear a thing on Desperate Housewives. People just know it's on Sunday nights, and it's still one of the most watched shows on telelvision.
I watch Grey's Anatomy at first, but it turned into a whole soap opera thingy and I got turned off. I was hoping for more of a medical drama without all that over drama stuff. I can't even think what I watch on Sundays. I think I watch the Discovery Channel, History Channel, channels along those lines.

I watch Grey's Anatomy at first, but it turned into a whole soap opera thingy and I got turned off. I was hoping for more of a medical drama without all that over drama stuff. I can't even think what I watch on Sundays. I think I watch the Discovery Channel, History Channel, channels along those lines.
I watched the first season of GA and was very unimpressed. I dropped it like a hot potato.:lol:

I guess I'm alone here. I'd rather watch shows like Grey's and Desperate Housewives which have soapy tendencies and storylines that don't wrap up in an episode, than watch shows like CSI and Law And Order where every single episode is self-contained and every season is the same and cast members come and go and nobody cares. You'd never have a Law And Order/ER case with those shows that are still on 15 years later and nobody who was on the show from the beginning are still there.

Cast members do come and go on shows, but if 50% of the original cast leaves, it's time to go off the air. Yes Law And Order, ER, etc... I'm talking to you.

Add me to that Law and Order and CSI crap. How many of these damn shows can there be?

CSI Miami
CSI Kansas
CSI Georgia

Gimme a break here.

I watched the first season of GA and was very unimpressed. I dropped it like a hot potato.:lol:

I watched the Pilot for Grey's Anatomy, I remember. Haven't watched a single episode since. But, the first season of Grey's Anatomy was not that popular. It didn't get extremely popular until it's second season.

I don't watch any of those CSI series either. Just seems like a waste of time. It's said too, because all 3 of them are some of the highest rated shows on television. I miss the days when all the top 20 shows were sitcoms. It was like that up until the late ninties, too. Then we started getting all the reality shows like Survivor and Millionaire in primetime, which took over.

the reason sitcoms don't do well these days is because sitcoms suck nowadays. Hour long dramedies have replaced the sitcom

I watched the Pilot for Grey's Anatomy, I remember. Haven't watched a single episode since. But, the first season of Grey's Anatomy was not that popular. It didn't get extremely popular until it's second season.

I don't watch any of those CSI series either. Just seems like a waste of time. It's said too, because all 3 of them are some of the highest rated shows on television. I miss the days when all the top 20 shows were sitcoms. It was like that up until the late ninties, too. Then we started getting all the reality shows like Survivor and Millionaire in primetime, which took over.
I used to watch all the L&O's and CSI (Never liked the spin-offs) and Without A Trace. The only procedures I still watch are SVU which was always the best L&O and also Criminal Minds.

I guess I'm alone here. I'd rather watch shows like Grey's and Desperate Housewives which have soapy tendencies and storylines that don't wrap up in an episode, than watch shows like CSI and Law And Order where every single episode is self-contained and every season is the same and cast members come and go and nobody cares. You'd never have a Law And Order/ER case with those shows that are still on 15 years later and nobody who was on the show from the beginning are still there.

Cast members do come and go on shows, but if 50% of the original cast leaves, it's time to go off the air. Yes Law And Order, ER, etc... I'm talking to you.

:yeahthat

I have never liked the CSI's or Law and Order's, but I love most of ABC's soapy type shows. Desperate Housewives is AMAZING this season.

:yeahthat

I have never liked the CSI's or Law and Order's, but I love most of ABC's soapy type shows. Desperate Housewives is AMAZING this season.
I still like DH and I do like UB but a lot of them just seem to be the same old thing. I quit watching DSM this week. It's not too bad but I'm watching too many shows and serialized shows you have to watch every week. It's not as good as Dallas and Dynasty .

Greys peaked in it's second season IMO. Season 3 was okay but it started getting tedious and this season has only been so-so this far. But personally, I prefer that this show focuses on the characters as opposed to ER where the cast members are disposable. While it's true Isaiah got fired, he at least has still been mentioned since he left, and yes Addison left too... but she went to her own spinoff. It's hardly like ER where the characters are killed off and everything, I think a show like ER would likely make a lot of people reconsider wanting to be a doctor or nurse or anything to do in the medical field considering how many times terrorists bomb the damn place.

I still like DH and I do like UB but a lot of them just seem to be the same old thing. I quit watching DSM this week. It's not too bad but I'm watching too many shows and serialized shows you have to watch every week. It's not as good as Dallas and Dynasty .
I haven't and won't watch either DSM or Gossip Girl because if I don't like people along the lines of Paris Hilton in real life, why the hell would I want to see a fictional version of them?

I have never liked the CSI's or Law and Order's, but I love most of ABC's soapy type shows. Desperate Housewives is AMAZING this season.

Housewives, Lost, Heroes, Veronica, Pushing Daisies, Buffy, Angel, 24, Grey's, Prison Break, etc.... are all shows I can think of which adapted the soap formula to non-soapish television, and all of them have cult followings. Granted, Buffy/Angel and Veronica were never ratings hits because of the networks they were on, but their fans were far more devoted than the average person who watches CSI or Law And Order to kill time, because the storylines were so intense and involving.

I generally don't care for shows that have self-contained storylines most of the time. Sometimes they're okay to watch but I prefer dramas that are character-driven instead of shows like ER and Law And Order or the sort where the characters are treated as incidental and they come and go and nobody cares.

Cast members do come and go on shows, but if 50% of the original cast leaves, it's time to go off the air. Yes Law And Order, ER, etc... I'm talking to you.
I don't think a show should go off the air just because 50% of their original cast is gone. On a Sitcom, maybe, but not on a drama. If it works, it works. If the "new" cast members are good additions, interesting, the stories are still good, and the fans keep tuning in, then there's no reason to end the show.

I watched the original Law & Order for 4 or 5 years straight. Without the addition of Angie Harmon, and later, Elizabeth Rohm, I probably wouldn't have watched the show at all. Angie pulled me in to that show. The same goes for ER. There's a lot of fans that prefer the back half of the series/cast (though I prefer the middle years). Dr. Greene was great. Carter held his own. But Abby is the heart and soul of the show, and she didn't come until the 6th season.

All in all, it depends on the show itself. Some can handle the cast changes, and some can't. Buffy only had 3 of it's original cast as regulars beyond the 5th season. I would have died if it ended after only 5 years. And Angel only had 1 original cast member by the end of it's run.

All in all, it depends on the show itself. Some can handle the cast changes, and some can't. Buffy only had 3 of it's original cast as regulars beyond the 5th season. I would have died if it ended after only 5 years. And Angel only had 1 original cast member by the end of it's run.

well, those shows depended on characters more. The show grew with the characters, not the setting. It wasn't like the show was about Sunnydale High and once the class graduated, they replaced them with new cast members, like what happens on ER/L&O/NYPD Blue and the sort. IMO it'd be like keeping Friends on with none of the original cast members but yet there's a new group of friends that slowly were phased in and then took over the apartments and Central Perk, etc.

Housewives, Lost, Heroes, Veronica, Pushing Daisies, Buffy, Angel, 24, Grey's, Prison Break, etc.... are all shows I can think of which adapted the soap formula to non-soapish television, and all of them have cult followings. Granted, Buffy/Angel and Veronica were never ratings hits because of the networks they were on, but their fans were far more devoted than the average person who watches CSI or Law And Order to kill time, because the storylines were so intense and involving.

I generally don't care for shows that have self-contained storylines most of the time. Sometimes they're okay to watch but I prefer dramas that are character-driven instead of shows like ER and Law And Order or the sort where the characters are treated as incidental and they come and go and nobody cares.

I tried Criminal Minds when it aired after the Super Bowl and hated it. I don't like it where the characters have no personality. It's just BLAH.

I'm loving Pushing Daisies, Private Practice, and Dirty Sexy Money this year. Also so far like Samantha Who?, Chuck, Journeyman, and Women's Murder Club.

well, those shows depended on characters more. The show grew with the characters, not the setting. It wasn't like the show was about Sunnydale High and once the class graduated, they replaced them with new cast members, like what happens on ER/L&O/NYPD Blue and the sort. IMO it'd be like keeping Friends on with none of the original cast members but yet there's a new group of friends that slowly were phased in and then took over the apartments and Central Perk, etc.
I guess you've never seen more than 2 episodes of ER. The series is all character driven. The patients just add to the plot. There's stories/plotlines that were setup, and were still continuing years later. Not even the Pilot was a stand alone episode.

And for shows that deal with cops and doctors, it only seems natural that the characters eventually move on. People move away, quit, retire, get trasferred, die, etc. It's part of life. And it's not like every single member of the original cast left at once. They started leaving half a decade in, one by one.

And like I said, some shows are strong enough to handle changes, and some shows are not. Friends is a show that could not have afforded to lose even 1 of their regulars.

I believe sitcoms nowadays don't entirely suck . . . people have just gotten into the habit of watching nothing but primetime soaps, crime/courtroom shows, and reality. It started in the late ninties, and it hasn't given up. Just think . . . every big hit on TV this year is 1 of the above. Pushing Daisies, Dirty Sexy Money, plus returning show Desperate Housewives, Grey's Anatomy, Ugly Betty, and Brothers and Sisters all have the sexy, soapy appeal to them. Then Without a Trace, CSI and it's spinoffs, Boston Legal, and others are all the courtroom/crime shows that are still very popular. American Idol, Hell's Kitchen, Survivor, Kid Nation, and Dancing with the Stars are all reality. That about covers the primetime lineup.

The good shows, like Back to You, are just looked over, because no one wants to watch a sitcom anymore. They really tried to bring back the old sitcom premise that lead telelvision 10, 20, and 30 years ago, but it's just not working.

I guess you've never seen more than 2 episodes of ER. The series is all character driven. The patients just add to the plot. There's stories/plotlines that were setup, and were still continuing years later. Not even the Pilot was a stand alone episode.

And for shows that deal with cops and doctors, it only seems natural that the characters eventually move on. People move away, quit, retire, get trasferred, die, etc. It's part of life. And it's not like every single member of the original cast left at once. They started leaving half a decade in, one by one.

And like I said, some shows are strong enough to handle changes, and some shows are not. Friends is a show that could not have afforded to lose even 1 of their regulars.

well, I do think shows should retain a lot of it's cast. I can understand why Clooney left ER, he was becoming a big movie star and TV was holding him back I guess, but what exactly caused Eriq LaSalle, Juliana Margulies, Noah Wyle, Anthony Edwards and others to exit the show so abruptly? They should've pacted together and decided "let's end this show after season 8" or something instead of currently having nobody who was on during the "golden age" of ER. Housewives have already swore that they're ending after season 7, which is smart because they know the actors/characters are more important than the setting. I think the same will apply with Grey's Anatomy, if Ellen Pompeo leaves, the show ends... since she is the title character.

well, I do think shows should retain a lot of it's cast. I can understand why Clooney left ER, he was becoming a big movie star and TV was holding him back I guess, but what exactly caused Eriq LaSalle, Juliana Margulies, Noah Wyle, Anthony Edwards and others to exit the show so abruptly? They should've pacted together and decided "let's end this show after season 8" or something instead of currently having nobody who was on during the "golden age" of ER. Housewives have already swore that they're ending after season 7, which is smart because they know the actors/characters are more important than the setting. I think the same will apply with Grey's Anatomy, if Ellen Pompeo leaves, the show ends... since she is the title character.
The crew were the one's to suggest George leave. They saw that he was becoming a huge star, and television was holding him back. He agreed. It wasn't one of those "I'm too big to do TV." It was a mutual deal. And one of the things I always praised about this was that when they saw he was getting big, they never increased his role on the show. He always remained a supporting player.

As for everyone else; I think Eriq La Salle had an 8 year contract. It expired. His character had run it's course around that time anyway. Noah was on the show for 11 full years, and then guest starred after that. He's even returning this year. Anthony Edwards also had an 8 year deal. It might have been 7, and then they renewed it for another year to create a proper exit. I'm not too sure about that one though. And Julianna wanted to leave the show to pursue other projects.

Unlike Dr. Burke on Grey's Anatomy, none of them left "abruptly." They all knew when they were leaving. The writers planned their exits way ahead of time (especially in the case of Anthony, Noah, Julianna, and George). I loved them, but the original wasn't the best ER cast, IMO.

I won't even begin to discuss ER and Desperate Housewives in the same sentence. DH isn't in the same league. The ER crew couldn't just sit down and say it's over. There was way too much going on. The show was in it's prime. Many highlights were still to come. And NBC wouldn't get rid of one of their gems.

As for Meredith, I would hope they end the show when Ellen wants to go. Grey's wouldn't be able to handle the show without her (though I wish they killed her off last year, and settled on a name change). The ER cast at that time were great enough as an ensemble to go on without Edwards. Grey's Anatomy doesn't have that staying power.....I do admit that in the case of today's ER, if Abby were to leave, there would be no show. She's as important to ER as Grey is to Grey's Anatomy.

I believe sitcoms nowadays don't entirely suck . . . people have just gotten into the habit of watching nothing but primetime soaps, crime/courtroom shows, and reality. It started in the late ninties, and it hasn't given up. Just think . . . every big hit on TV this year is 1 of the above. Pushing Daisies, Dirty Sexy Money, plus returning show Desperate Housewives, Grey's Anatomy, Ugly Betty, and Brothers and Sisters all have the sexy, soapy appeal to them. Then Without a Trace, CSI and it's spinoffs, Boston Legal, and others are all the courtroom/crime shows that are still very popular. American Idol, Hell's Kitchen, Survivor, Kid Nation, and Dancing with the Stars are all reality. That about covers the primetime lineup.

The good shows, like Back to You, are just looked over, because no one wants to watch a sitcom anymore. They really tried to bring back the old sitcom premise that lead telelvision 10, 20, and 30 years ago, but it's just not working.
That's very true. The entire TV lineup looks exactly as you described it, LOL.

I think there should be a balance of Sitcoms, Dramas, and even reality shows. This way, there's something for everyone. The 1990's are a perfect example of this, IMO. In todays world, you have 5 dramas, 6 reality shows, a game show, and 2 sitcoms. It's not fair, but it is what it is.

roseanne, Pushing Daisies isn't a soap or sexy. It is a very unique show and different. I don't know how I would describe it.

As for DH, the show is on its A-game this season. Even last season up until Bree "left," the show was of top notch (Bang was the best episode and Laurie Metcalf was amazing!). Season 2 got a lot of criticism because of the Applewhite story and that's where all this started, but it did wrap up nicely. Other than that, DH has been very good.

I enjoy CORNER GAS on WGN. Such a great show. It is so different and unlike a lot of shows, it is funny through and through.

roseanne, Pushing Daisies isn't a soap or sexy. It is a very unique show and different. I don't know how I would describe it.

As for DH, the show is on its A-game this season. Even last season up until Bree "left," the show was of top notch (Bang was the best episode and Laurie Metcalf was amazing!). Season 2 got a lot of criticism because of the Applewhite story and that's where all this started, but it did wrap up nicely. Other than that, DH has been very good.

I completely agree. I have always really liked it even during Season 2, and there were episodes where you knew Bree was gone last Spring(she was definitely missed), but it still held my interest, it's back in force this year though. Sunday looks awesome!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s6QeJm8mQ0

I have other ABC promos posted as well.

As for Pushing Daisies, it is like nothing I've seen before. It is hard to describe except to say it is AWESOME. I would call it a procedural with a love story in it and tons of character development.

roseanne, Pushing Daisies isn't a soap or sexy. It is a very unique show and different. I don't know how I would describe it.

As for DH, the show is on its A-game this season. Even last season up until Bree "left," the show was of top notch (Bang was the best episode and Laurie Metcalf was amazing!). Season 2 got a lot of criticism because of the Applewhite story and that's where all this started, but it did wrap up nicely. Other than that, DH has been very good.

But you have to agree, Pushing Daisies has that soapy feel to . I tuned in to the last half hour last Wednesday (I had nothing to watch after BTY) and from what I saw, it just felt like I was watching a soap opera. Desperate Housewives feels the same way to me. I'd have to admit, the whole storyline of a guy bringing back the dead is very creative.

Again, Desperate Housewives is just not my show. I don't like getting involved with shows that leave you hanging until the end of the season. I'd rather shows that end a story after the episode is over. Not many shows are like that on TV anymore.

Buffyboy, you're right. TV should have a mix of sitcom, drama, and reality. But if you have 10 huge dramas and 5 lowly rated sitcoms, there's not much that can be done about it. If people want to watch shows like DH, let them.

But you have to agree, Pushing Daisies has that soapy feel to . I tuned in to the last half hour last Wednesday (I had nothing to watch after BTY) and from what I saw, it just felt like I was watching a soap opera. Desperate Housewives feels the same way to me. I'd have to admit, the whole storyline of a guy bringing back the dead is very creative.

so you're saying any show that has the slightest bit of a continuing storyline (as opposed to CSI/L&O/NYPD Blue/Cold Case type shows where the cases and storylines wrap up in one episode) is soapy? I'm sorry, I like shows that actually involve the viewer instead of just being background wallpaper like a lot of shows are. These shows (surprisingly nobody has mentioned Ugly Betty yet, which is very comical but also has continuing stories with the characters) are the ones that have the fans making sure to watch every week. Fans aren't casual, they're serious with these shows. As opposed to someone who might kill time watching a Law And Order episode and have their fill until the next time they're in the mood to watching.

No way Pushing Daisies is "soapy." They solve murder cases each week. It has romantic and tounge and cheek dialouge, but no it is not a primetime soap, like Desperate Housewives. It is more of a procedural than soap, but it isn't your normal procedural. There are bits of everything in this show. It even is funny. Emerson Cod is hilarious.

so you're saying any show that has the slightest bit of a continuing storyline (as opposed to CSI/L&O/NYPD Blue/Cold Case type shows where the cases and storylines wrap up in one episode) is soapy? I'm sorry, I like shows that actually involve the viewer instead of just being background wallpaper like a lot of shows are. These shows (surprisingly nobody has mentioned Ugly Betty yet, which is very comical but also has continuing stories with the characters) are the ones that have the fans making sure to watch every week. Fans aren't casual, they're serious with these shows. As opposed to someone who might kill time watching a Law And Order episode and have their fill until the next time they're in the mood to watching.

No, I'm saying shows with the continuous season-long storylines I don't care for much. The only show I'll occasionally watch is Lost, but I haven't watched much at all since they split the season into 2 parts and moved it to 10pm last season.

Having continuous storylines may have viewers coming back each week, but that's what'ss o bad about it. In most cases, if you miss just one episode, then you'r thrown off for future episodes. That happened to me once with Kyle XY on ABC Family. I missed 1 episode, and for the next 2 or 3 episodes I was lost.

That's why it makes me wonder why no one likes shows like Law and Order, or sitcoms like Back to You. They're just an easy way to fill time and have a good laugh. You don't have to get involved much at all. All you have to do is sit down and watched the episode. You don't have to think about all the things that happened last week or stuff like that.

No way Pushing Daisies is "soapy." They solve murder cases each week. It has romantic and tounge and cheek dialouge, but no it is not a primetime soap, like Desperate Housewives. It is more of a procedural than soap, but it isn't your normal procedural. There are bits of everything in this show. It even is funny. Emerson Cod is hilarious.

It may not be soapy, but to me, that's the way it felt when I was watching it. A better term to describe this show is romantic. You put it perfectly when you said "romantic and tongue and cheek dialouge, because that's exactly what it is. DH, on the other hand, is an exact primetime soap.I have nothing against PD. I'm sure it's a good show, just not my cup of tea this season. Maybe I'll watch a little more of it, though, next week.

But you have to agree, Pushing Daisies has that soapy feel to . I tuned in to the last half hour last Wednesday (I had nothing to watch after BTY) and from what I saw, it just felt like I was watching a soap opera. Desperate Housewives feels the same way to me. I'd have to admit, the whole storyline of a guy bringing back the dead is very creative.

Again, Desperate Housewives is just not my show. I don't like getting involved with shows that leave you hanging until the end of the season. I'd rather shows that end a story after the episode is over. Not many shows are like that on TV anymore.

Buffyboy, you're right. TV should have a mix of sitcom, drama, and reality. But if you have 10 huge dramas and 5 lowly rated sitcoms, there's not much that can be done about it. If people want to watch shows like DH, let them.
I think the "Soapy" feel on Pushing Daisies comes from the ongoing romance story, no? And the show is creative, but it's not like it hasn't been done before. The look to it is great though.

I love shows that have all those ongoing storylines, but it's also fun to watch a show where the episodes stand by themselves. Actually, I REALLY prefer shows that do both of those.; Story of the week, and the continuing plots that go on from episode to episode. MANY sitcoms only use stand alone episodes. And that's fine, but it is good to throw in that "soapy" feel every now and then (like on Roseanne, Cheers, Frasier, etc).

What it all comes down to is personal taste.

I think the "Soapy" feel on Pushing Daisies comes from the ongoing romance story, no? And the show is creative, but it's not like it hasn't been done before. The look to it is great though.

I love shows that have all those ongoing storylines, but it's also fun to watch a show where the episodes stand by themselves. Actually, I REALLY prefer shows that do both of those.; Story of the week, and the continuing plots that go on from episode to episode. MANY sitcoms only use stand alone episodes. And that's fine, but it is good to throw in that "soapy" feel every now and then (like on Roseanne, Cheers, Frasier, etc).

What it all comes down to is personal taste.

That's what I've been trying to get at . . . personal taste.

That's what I've been trying to get at . . . personal taste.
Yep. And we all see that personal taste to you means tuning in to Desperate Housewives each week. ;)

And Solomon, sorry your thread has been hijacked by all of us...again. :)

The episodes of Pushing Daisies aren't connected though. You can miss an episode or watch an episode out of order, and still not be lost (and so far Private Practice is like that, too...so far, at least). The only ongoing story is the romance between the two leads, but that won't go anywhere, because if he touches her, she is dead.

The crew were the one's to suggest George leave. They saw that he was becoming a huge star, and television was holding him back. He agreed. It wasn't one of those "I'm too big to do TV." It was a mutual deal. And one of the things I always praised about this was that when they saw he was getting big, they never increased his role on the show. He always remained a supporting player.

I am kinda surprised any show would purposely ask it's most popular star to leave. Most shows would be gracious to have an actual movie star in the cast. Family Ties ratings were at their peak when Michael J. Fox's movie career was at it's hottest. And The Office comes to mind for a current show, the fact that Steve Carell is a bonafide movie star is certainly helping the show right now, same thing with Zach Braff and Scrubs.

I am kinda surprised any show would purposely ask it's most popular star to leave. Most shows would be gracious to have an actual movie star in the cast. Family Ties ratings were at their peak when Michael J. Fox's movie career was at it's hottest. And The Office comes to mind for a current show, the fact that Steve Carell is a bonafide movie star is certainly helping the show right now, same thing with Zach Braff and Scrubs.

I think they're 2 totally different things. They didn't ask Clooney to leave ER. They said it was probably best for him and his career if he did. But, it's not as if he was forced. In the end, it was his choice to leave.

Scrubs is only gonna be lasting 1 more season, which was the main reason Braff signed on for this last season. And Steve Carell is the office. The show's only in it's third season, so I don't think he's going anywhere anytime soon. The Office has already earned him multiple emmys and other awards. Again, 2 totally different things here.

I think they're 2 totally different things. They didn't ask Clooney to leave ER. They said it was probably best for him and his career if he did. But, it's not as if he was forced. In the end, it was his choice to leave.

Scrubs is only gonna be lasting 1 more season, which was the main reason Braff signed on for this last season. And Steve Carell is the office. The show's only in it's third season, so I don't think he's going anywhere anytime soon. The Office has already earned him multiple emmys and other awards. Again, 2 totally different things here.
well, suggesting Clooney leaves ER did hurt the show in the long run. Clooney's last season on the show was its last season at #1.

Of course all shows eventually end, but I've heard that the clout and respect "Garden State" gave Braff has probably given Scrubs two or three additional seasons that it wouldn't have had before.

With The Office, the show was heading for cancellation but the fact that The 40 Year Old Virgin just came out in the theaters and became a huge hit (and then Little Miss Sunshine followed, and even while Evan Almighty didn't earn it's budget back, it still was a major summer release and grossed $100 million) got NBC to stick with the show because they knew Carell was about to become a big star, and they were right. His star exploded and so did the series. NBC may have not stuck with it if Carell's movie career didn't coincide with the series.

well, suggesting Clooney leaves ER did hurt the show in the long run. Clooney's last season on the show was its last season at #1.

Of course all shows eventually end, but I've heard that the clout and respect "Garden State" gave Braff has probably given Scrubs two or three additional seasons that it wouldn't have had before.

With The Office, the show was heading for cancellation but the fact that The 40 Year Old Virgin just came out in the theaters and became a huge hit (and then Little Miss Sunshine followed, and even while Evan Almighty didn't earn it's budget back, it still was a major summer release and grossed $100 million) got NBC to stick with the show because they knew Carell was about to become a big star, and they were right. His star exploded and so did the series. NBC may have not stuck with it if Carell's movie career didn't coincide with the series.

I still think you're wrong. ER is still one of the highest rated series for NBC thus far. It gets around 10 million each week . . . which is completely normal for any TV series right now. Sure, when Clooney left, ratings fell, but it's not like it's the lowest rated series on telelvision. Give it a break.

The Office was never headed toward cancellation. It's only in it's third season. Right now, it's the highest rated comedy on NBC, and will still be around for awhile, IMO. Just because Carell portrayed great characters in great movies had nothing to do with him earning emmys for The Office. They're 2 compeltely different things.

ER got 10 million this week because Without a Trace was not on. It is averaging 8.5 million this season, usually third place in its slot.

I still think you're wrong. ER is still one of the highest rated series for NBC thus far. It gets around 10 million each week . . . which is completely normal for any TV series right now. Sure, when Clooney left, ratings fell, but it's not like it's the lowest rated series on telelvision. Give it a break.
ER was never out of the top two in the 90's, and now the show isn't even in the top 30. You love to bash Roseanne's ratings decline in season 9 and cited it as why the show sucked that season, but I'd say that ER's present ratings compared to it's ratings in the Clooney seasons are just like season 9 ratings compared to the first five or six seasons of Roseanne. Seinfeld, Friends and Cheers all knew when a downfall was inevitable and they called it a day before they plummetted, since they all had long, healthy runs.

The Office was never headed toward cancellation. It's only in it's third season. Right now, it's the highest rated comedy on NBC, and will still be around for awhile, IMO. Just because Carell portrayed great characters in great movies had nothing to do with him earning emmys for The Office. They're 2 compeltely different things.
so you actually thought The Office was a hit at the beginning? Go back and re-read some of Pav's old blogs from 05 or so, he predicted the show would be axed by mid-season and had no idea why NBC kept it going. If you think that NBC didn't have faith in the show due to Carell's success in The 40 Year Old Virgin and knew he was going to be huge and would regret cancelling his series in a year or two, than I don't know what to say. NBC cancelled a lot of shows around the same time which had ratings similar to what The Office got AT THE BEGINNING.

ER was never out of the top two in the 90's, and now the show isn't even in the top 30. You love to bash Roseanne's ratings decline in season 9 and cited it as why the show sucked that season, but I'd say that ER's present ratings compared to it's ratings in the Clooney seasons are just like season 9 ratings compared to the first five or six seasons of Roseanne.
ER never leaving the top 2 in the 90's, where it spent 6 years is great. Any show that can spend 6 years in that position (nowdays it belongs to CSI) is pretty damn good.

Yes, ER's last spot at #1 was Clooney's last season, but the following year it came in at #2. And years and years later, in 2003, it came in at #7 (as a matter of fact, if you exclude all the reality crap, ER was the #3 scripted series on TV...in it's 9th season, in 2003!). Again, that is excellent. There's hardly ANY current shows that will make it to a 9th season, yet alone still be in the top 5 by then.

And ER left the Top 30 for the first time EVER at the end of it's 13th year (it came in at #31, at that). And if it is only getting almost 9 million weekly, that's still good. There's shows that have been on the air for 5, 6, 7 years that have never even seen numbers like that.

And if we're comparing ER's ratings decline to Roseanne's; ER took more than a decade to even leave the Top 10. Roseanne was this big hit show, and took this drastic fall in a matter of a year or 2. That's all I know about that.

I still think you're wrong. ER is still one of the highest rated series for NBC thus far. It gets around 10 million each week . . . which is completely normal for any TV series right now. Sure, when Clooney left, ratings fell, but it's not like it's the lowest rated series on telelvision. Give it a break.

The Office was never headed toward cancellation. It's only in it's third season. Right now, it's the highest rated comedy on NBC, and will still be around for awhile, IMO. Just because Carell portrayed great characters in great movies had nothing to do with him earning emmys for The Office. They're 2 compeltely different things.
ER was NBC's 3rd highest rated show, last season, behind Deal Or No Deal and Heroes. I don't know about this season yet, but I'm sure things pretty much stayed the same.

I dont know how this subject got brought up again. The bottom line is if your a fan or not, you know ER is still a money maker for NBC. It remains a history making show. And is one of the most respected series to ever be on Television. It has won 22 Emmy's and has been nominated for 117 (being nominated every year through 2007, excluding 2005). This is a great achievement, and something "new" shows like 24, House, Grey's Anatomy, etc can only dream of.

ER got 10 million this week because Without a Trace was not on. It is averaging 8.5 million this season, usually third place in its slot.

I was thinking about that after I wrote my post. But still, 8.5 is good for NBC, considering they haven't had many hit shows in years.

I am kinda surprised any show would purposely ask it's most popular star to leave. Most shows would be gracious to have an actual movie star in the cast. Family Ties ratings were at their peak when Michael J. Fox's movie career was at it's hottest. And The Office comes to mind for a current show, the fact that Steve Carell is a bonafide movie star is certainly helping the show right now, same thing with Zach Braff and Scrubs.

Like I said before, the decision was mutual. George might have been getting a lot of attention from movies, but his character wasn't the most important on ER. It really wasn't that difficult to let him go. They were respecting him, if anything. They saw he was becoming a major player in Hollywood and didn't want to be the one's responsible for holding him back. The show was #1 for years, and people were not only watching for Clooney. Just like people don't only watch Grey's Anatomy for Patrick Dempsey (and even that show could go on without him, but that's a whole other discussion).

And as for The Office; It wasn't a big hit in the beginning. Steve's movie career may be some of the reason it's still on the air, but NBC had faith in the show from the start. Remember, they already renewed the show for a full second season even before anyone knew what The 40 Year Old Virgin was. And I think the show still only gets 5 Million or so (I could be wrong). It's not a powerhouse show, but it's still great. And that's my point about ER. They still see that it does decent, and that it's still a good show (which may explain why it had only 1 timeslot through it's entire 14 year run). If something is still good, and still working, why pull the plug?

ER was never out of the top two in the 90's, and now the show isn't even in the top 30. You love to bash Roseanne's ratings decline in season 9 and cited it as why the show sucked that season, but I'd say that ER's present ratings compared to it's ratings in the Clooney seasons are just like season 9 ratings compared to the first five or six seasons of Roseanne. Seinfeld, Friends and Cheers all knew when a downfall was inevitable and they called it a day before they plummetted, since they all had long, healthy runs.


so you actually thought The Office was a hit at the beginning? Go back and re-read some of Pav's old blogs from 05 or so, he predicted the show would be axed by mid-season and had no idea why NBC kept it going. If you think that NBC didn't have faith in the show due to Carell's success in The 40 Year Old Virgin and knew he was going to be huge and would regret cancelling his series in a year or two, than I don't know what to say. NBC cancelled a lot of shows around the same time which had ratings similar to what The Office got AT THE BEGINNING.

Now you're just turning this into an argument. I tried to tell you why I thought what I did about ER and The Office, but you still are trying to insist that my opinions are wrong. And you're trying to compare ER, a show in it's 14th season I believe, to Roseanne, a comedy and completely different show, both material and ratings wise.

I still don't really get what you're saying about The Office. The first season wasn't the best for The Office, but it wasn't horrible compared to other NBC comedies. Plus, TO premiered in mid season right off that bat. So, what you said about NBC cancelling TO by midseason makes no sense whatsoever. I'm saying TO helped Carell's career. But, it might as well could have helped ratings for TO. What I think did it was the awards it began to win, which probably told viewers to tune in to see what they're missing. As of now, it's the biggest comedy on NBC, so they should have nothing to complain about.

I don't get what you're talking about when you say I love to bash Roseanne's ratings. I ama huge fan of Roseanne. Why would I want to bash it's ratings? Sure, the ratings sucked in the last season. We all know that. The last season of Roseanne in general wasn't good, IMO. But that has nothing to do with ER. It shouldn't have been mentioned. If NBC wants to keep ER around, let the. It's funny, because I don't even watch ER. It still does good for the network, considering competition at 10pm, and the lead in of 8.5 it has. It's always on par with it's lead in, and was even up this week, thanks to Viva Laughlin.

ER never leaving the top 2 in the 90's, where it spent 6 years is great. Any show that can spend 6 years in that position (nowdays it belongs to CSI) is pretty damn good.

Yes, ER's last spot at #1 was Clooney's last season, but the following year it came in at #2. And years and years later, in 2003, it came in at #7 (as a matter of fact, if you exclude all the reality crap, ER was the #3 scripted series on TV...in it's 9th season, in 2003!). Again, that is excellent. There's hardly ANY current shows that will make it to a 9th season, yet alone still be in the top 5 by then.

And ER left the Top 30 for the first time EVER at the end of it's 13th year (it came in at #31, at that). And if it is only getting almost 9 million weekly, that's still good. There's shows that have been on the air for 5, 6, 7 years that have never even seen numbers like that.

And if we're comparing ER's ratings decline to Roseanne's; ER took more than a decade to even leave the Top 10. Roseanne was this big hit show, and took this drastic fall in a matter of a year or 2. That's all I know about that.

Thankyou for supporting me on this one. You're absolutely right with all your points. Clooney was only in the show for it's first 5 seasons. You have to think that ER is still running strong, 9 seasons after his departure. So in the long run, it should be made clear that ER was popular no matter who were the stars. Who cares if the show was number 1 on year, and the net year number 2. Wow, that's such a huge loss-LOL. Who cares! 8.5 million for a show (on NBC) is excellent in this day in age. Some networks are happy with 6-8 million for a show, and Dean's complainging about horrible ratings at 8.5. It doesn't make any sense.

Thankyou for supporting me on this one. You're absolutely right with all your points. Clooney was only in the show for it's first 5 seasons. You have to think that ER is still running strong, 9 seasons after his departure. So in the long run, it should be made clear that ER was popular no matter who were the stars. Who cares if the show was number 1 on year, and the net year number 2. Wow, that's such a huge loss-LOL. Who cares! 8.5 million for a show (on NBC) is excellent in this day in age. Some networks are happy with 6-8 million for a show, and Dean's complainging about horrible ratings at 8.5. It doesn't make any sense.
Exactly! We can all see that I will defend this show until there's no tomorrow. But I do have facts to back it up. And everything you said here is indeed a fact.

And why do I get the feeling you snapped your fingers at the screen after you typed this? ;) :lol: