Wednesday night on CourtTV "Haunting Evidence" will be about the murder of Diane Shawcroft and Jennifer Lueth in case anyone is interested:

http://www.courttv.com/onair/shows/haunting_evidence/episodes/206.html

Did anyone else watch this? I did. I'm not a big fan of that show but was hoping they would give some more info on the case that UM didn't. They didn't. Sad to say I really think this case will never be solved unless someone confesses. There's no description of the driver, just he was in a dark colored pickup truck. The girls bodies were decomposed so they couldn't tell the cause of death. If the girls were raped (which I certainly hope they weren't) there was no way to get any dna with the bodies in that condition being out there in the desert for months. I tend to think the girls knew their killer. It seemed they were outgoing enough but I can't see them getting in the truck with a complete stranger. They did mention in the show that they had been drinking at the convenience store so maybe their judgment wasn't the best at the time. Any other thoughts on this case?

Well, I meant to watch this, but I had forgot about it, and then I was going to watch it when it came back on at 1 AM but I fell asleep before hand. I did watch it the night before when they had another UM case on, that one was fairly interesting, they even had a composite of the guy and stuff. I actually think out of all the new reality garbage court tv has put on, Haunting evidence is one of the better ones, if you ask me, I am not saying it is academy award winning material, but it is certainly better than many of the other shows they have on.

Well, if they were drinking at the store, or drinking somewhere near the store, that would change everything, as young women, I am sure they were not just having a drink or two, they were probably legally intoxicated, and therefore their judgement may have very well been impaired, I still have this feeling that they knew who the guy in the truck was, because unless they were so drunk that their judgement was totally impaired, I think they would have only got in the guy's truck if they knew him.

I also do not think that only one guy was involved in the murder of these girls, because even though they were not big girls, there was still two girls and only one guy? In my opinion there was at least two men involved, I dont know why these girls would be murdered unless they had been raped and they were murdered to shut them up. However, the bodies were so decomposed when found it was impossible to tell what had happened in terms of rape, no dna from them or nothing.

It is also my opinion, that the individual or individuals who did this, that it wasnt their first murder or at least not their first violent assault or sexual assault. Clearly, the killer came back, after the bodies were found, to take the pictures as a trophy of his crime. Everytime he looks at the pictures he remembers the act, as if you could forget killing someone, but clearly we have a very cunning and disturbed individual on our hands in the Phoenix area. Supposedly this location where the bodies were found, was so out of the way, that only the family and cops even knew it was there, so unless one of the cops took the pictures which I highly doubt, than it was the killer and or his possible accomplice that came back and took the pictures. In my opinion, this killer is familiar with the rural areas north of Phoenix and is probably a hunter or outdoors man to some degree to know where this location was and be familiar with that area, so in my opinion the killer is a guy who is an outdoors type of person.

Hey, I just wanted to say that I am glad to see this case being discussed a bit on here. The first time I saw this case profiled, I couldn't get to sleep that night and it may be among the most disturbing UM segments I've seen.

Unfortunately, I'm on vacation and only read your post about the other TV broadcast now. Heather, did you (or anybody else) happen to Tevo this show? I'd really like to see it although it sounds as if there was little or no new information. UM claims that the police withheld cause of death but now it seems that their bodies were so decomposed that the police themselves couldn't determine a cause of death.

Here is a link to a website memorial to Jenni and Diana with a photo of where they found the bodies, it is truly horrifying:

http://www.geocities.com/dslu99/cordes_jct.htm

I think the site has some updated pictures from the last time I looked but I'm not 100% sure. Also, either there or on another website I read awhile back that one of their friends vaguely remembered that they had a friend who had a cabin outside of Pheonix but that this fact could never be confirmed and that police were looking for the name of this person and of any other info about him.

Also, one old article claimed that they found one piece of hair on one of the bodies which could have come from the killer but it is odd, I haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere. If I can find that article again, I'll post it here.

Unfortunately, I don't think they'll ever solve this case but it seems odd to me because I think probably more than one man (or one very, very strong man) was involved in both subduing both girls and moving their bodies to that ravine. It makes me wonder if any other bodies have been found out in that area because I cannot believe this is the first time this killer has struck and it is obviously somebody familiar with that area.

And, finally, the fact that he went back for the pictures of the girls is just chilling. Sicko.

I saw that show and wasn't really impressed. Then again, I usually take Haunted Evidence with a grain of salt. But the psychics pretty much gave a very vague description of the killer....and to me, they made it sound like the girls didn't know the guy. Also, they alluded to the fact the guy knew the area he took the girls to...that he hunted in that area and that was why he was so familiar with it.


One thing they said that kinda peaked my interest was that both psychics said they might be more clues still in the area (like a missing button, etc) and the police should look through the area again.

I saw that show and wasn't really impressed. Then again, I usually take Haunted Evidence with a grain of salt. But the psychics pretty much gave a very vague description of the killer....and to me, they made it sound like the girls didn't know the guy. Also, they alluded to the fact the guy knew the area he took the girls to...that he hunted in that area and that was why he was so familiar with it.


One thing they said that kinda peaked my interest was that both psychics said they might be more clues still in the area (like a missing button, etc) and the police should look through the area again.

Well sorry fabgourmet I did tape it have since recorded over it. CourtTV will no doubt reair it soon and if I notice they are I'll let you know.

Well thats the problem I have with psychics, they just throw out a lot of observations out there that any of us could come up with and expect us to believe that something from another world is speaking to them. For example them saying the person must have been familiar with the area...duh! They were taken to this very remote location miles from any sign of life and thats the earth shattering "vision" they come up with. I thought the same thing the first time I saw the segment and the rest of you probably did too. I'm not sure if I agree that it was two men though. I don't think the few witnesses that spotted the girls getting into the truck mentioned another passenger. Also if the girls were seen getting in the front seat chances are there was only one in the truck. I think the killer could have kept them both at bay if he had a gun as no doubt the girls were being cooperative in hopes they would be able to get out of the situation with their lives. He could have killed them both one after the other and threw their bodies over the cliff one at a time. Also notice that apparently these psychics didn't pick up on the very important fact in this case that apparently the killer removed the girls photos from their frames at the memorial site.

I thought it was borderline comical when they guy hooks up his "ghost finding" equipment and keeps saying a voice keeps saying a name. I can't remember offhand what the name was but maybe someone who watched it does.

Well I believe some psychics are legit, but obviously for just as many that are legit you have just as many if not more that are frauds just out to make money off susceptible and desperate people. I think the show is okay, some shows they do a better job on than others.

I do get a kick out of the guy with the ghost tracking equipment, I am not really sure why he is there or what he is actually supposed to be doing. The guy with the ghost tracking equipment is actually a "paranormal investigator" Patrick Burns, who is actually fairly well known. He appears to me to be a guy interested in ghosts and likes to ghost hunting.

But from what you said the show didnt really yield any new information that wasnt already known, except that supposedly the girls were drinking at the store before they went with the guy in the truck. Now, while the clerk didnt see two men in the truck, in my opinion, this guy did have help, unless the girls were intoxicated in which case they might be easier to subdue. I am not sure I agree the girls didnt know this guy, I mean even if they were drunk, from what was said, they wouldnt get in a car with someone they didnt know, so even if they didnt know the guy that well, they probably knew him well enough they felt comfortable getting into his truck.

In my opinion, this guy was out to do some harm that night to someone, I feel he planned this out, that he had assaulted and maybe even murdered people in the past, he could have had an accomplice waiting up north of Phoenix or waiting at an unknown location.

The biggest problem I have with the guy being alone, is how would he subdue two women? He must have had a weapon, a gun, a knife, something, to intimidate and threaten these women with so they wouldnt run off. I would be curious about the lead, of the girls having a friend or at least knowing someone that had a cabin north of Phoenix, I also find it interesting, how suddenly no one can remember the guy's name. I am sure friends of the girls know more than they are telling and are keeping quiet out of fear. As I mentioned, in my opinion, this was not this guy's first murder or at least was not his first violent assault.

But yes, that stuff about him being familiar with the area, such as using it frequently for hunting and stuff, I do agree with Crystaldawn, that is an opinion most would come to easily and quickly. I mean it pretty much is obvious the guy was familiar with that area because the area where the body was found was so remote you couldnt even get to it if you didnt already know how.

The guy is a hunter I am sure, since I cannot think of any other reason a person would go up in that area. It also stands to reason that it was the killer who took the pictures from the frames, since the area was supposedly so remote that the only people who knew where the exact location was, were the cops, the family members and the killer or killers. He took the pictures, both probably to taunt the cops and family, kind of in a child like, "nah, nah, nah, you cant catch me" kind of taunting way. He also probably took those pictures as a trophy of his crime, everytime he looks at those pictures it comes back to him clear as day that he murdered two young women. Pretty sick stuff indeed.

Here is a link to the Glendale, AZ police website, it has sketches of both the truck that the mysterious man were driving and a composite of the man himself: I had never known there was a composite of him before:

http://www.glendaleaz.com/police/ColdCase_ShawcroftandLueth.cfm

I thought that because the investigation was ongoing, police withheld the cause of death.

You would think the guy with the mullet would stand out. In fact looking at him and the truck. It tends to make me think he was not from the Phoenix area but was rather from rural Arizona. Even though the Phoenix is a metro area so I suppose anything is possible, I think the cops were looking at the wrong place. I do believe the girls had met this guy before. However I do not believe they were that familiar with him. But I think this guy was probably from the Prescott area or somewhere north of Phoenix. Where the bodies were found Yavapai County, Arizona that county only begins about 30 miles or so north of downtown Phoenix and only about oh, 20 miles or so north of Glendale. So it would not be out of the question that the killer would be from Yavapai County which is a largely rural county with the exception of the Prescott area the western part of it is desert but a lot of it is forested or otherwise part of a national mountain range. Clearly the killer knew the land so he frequented that area regularly. You would have to I think to be able to navigate the terrain.

I thought that because the investigation was ongoing, police withheld the cause of death.


The episode claims this but it has been said elsewhere that actually the bodies were so decomposed that an autopsy could not identify cause of death...

The episode claims this but it has been said elsewhere that actually the bodies were so decomposed that an autopsy could not identify cause of death...

But obviously they did not die of..

1. Gun shots, no bullets found in the bodies, or damage to bones to indicate that. No shell cas
2. Not bludgeoned on the head. That damage would be shown even in decomp.
3. I doubt a guy could strangle or choose to strangle both.


That only leaves knife as the likely murder weapon.

But obviously they did not die of..

1. Gun shots, no bullets found in the bodies, or damage to bones to indicate that. No shell cas
2. Not bludgeoned on the head. That damage would be shown even in decomp.
3. I doubt a guy could strangle or choose to strangle both.


That only leaves knife as the likely murder weapon.

I'm not sure why you would dismiss strangling so readily. I think it's the most likely scenario, given we are assuming that there are complete skeletons. Knife wounds would show up on bone unless the killer very carefully stabbed only in the abdomen and not around the spine, ribcage or pelvis. That seems more unlikely to me than strangulation.

Like I said, that assumes that we have at least complete skeletons. If we have remains that were scattered, perhaps by animals, then that's a whole different can of worms. Then it may really be impossible to tell with any certainty how they died.

Of course, we are also assuming that they really could not determine a cause of death and it's not just another way of saying, "we are withholding the cause of death to aid the investigation."

I'm not sure why you would dismiss strangling so readily. I think it's the most likely scenario, given we are assuming that there are complete skeletons. Knife wounds would show up on bone unless the killer very carefully stabbed only in the abdomen and not around the spine, ribcage or pelvis. That seems more unlikely to me than strangulation.

1. I don;t know if one guy could strangle two women so easily. At least not without using some other means of attack.

2. I also don't know why two guys would choose strangulation as the method of death in a premeditated fashion.

You would think the guy with the mullet would stand out. In fact looking at him and the truck. It tends to make me think he was not from the Phoenix area but was rather from rural Arizona. Even though the Phoenix is a metro area so I suppose anything is possible, I think the cops were looking at the wrong place. I do believe the girls had met this guy before. However I do not believe they were that familiar with him. But I think this guy was probably from the Prescott area or somewhere north of Phoenix. Where the bodies were found Yavapai County, Arizona that county only begins about 30 miles or so north of downtown Phoenix and only about oh, 20 miles or so north of Glendale. So it would not be out of the question that the killer would be from Yavapai County which is a largely rural county with the exception of the Prescott area the western part of it is desert but a lot of it is forested or otherwise part of a national mountain range. Clearly the killer knew the land so he frequented that area regularly. You would have to I think to be able to navigate the terrain.You'd be surprised by the amount of people that still have eighties haircuts. I bet you'd find even more people with mullets in a place like Arizona.

As for the girls, the segment seem to imply that the girls liked action, even if they risked their safety. It's easy to imagine some psycho meeting the girls; perhaps he offered to show them the sights of Glendale. After all, they were new to the area. That would put them in a vulnerable position.

The creepy part was the footnote that the pictures of the ladies were removed from there frames after a tribute went up at the site of the killings. So only the killer/s, family and police would know where it's located since it's 16 miles from the highway and you need 4 wheel drive to get there. The killer or killers has to be local.

I just watched the Farina rerun about this case. It's a "newer" segment and very short. Alot of these early 2000's LIfetime cases go unnoticed in this forum so I hope this bump sparqs interest. What I got from the segment was there are absolutely no suspects and presently , a decade later, this case is still unsolved. Anybody else view the case or have any thoughts?