I know this case is typically dismissed as a probable accidental death due to exposure to the elements. BUT, the bloodhounds followed Stone's scent to the highway where it then disappeared. Could Stone have been picked up and gone on to continue his search for "The Beast" elsewhere?

Also, it was mentioned that Stone was a follower of New Age and that he was looking for "The Beast" - the concentration of negativity within a person's soul.
I was curious about New Age religion in general. Is this at all like "The Beast" that Jehovah's Witnesses believe in?

I'm not sure, Justin. I'm not a Jehovah's Witness. However, I tend to believe that David Stone didn't make it out of the desert. As we've found in many cases where people wander off into the prairies/woods, they are usually found not far from where they were last seen.

There have been a couple cases regarding folks disappearing in the desert. Isn't David the one who was making the rock formations and wrote some crazy stuff on the back of a dollar bill? Or am I mixing him up with Justin Bergwinkel?

Weren't Stone's remains eventually found out in the desert some time later? Maybe I am remembering another case.

Weren't Stone's remains eventually found out in the desert some time later? Maybe I am remembering another case.

You may be thinking of Don Kemp or Dan Wilson. I'm pretty sure Stone's remains were not found.

^ Nope I believe they were, Stack updated the segment after it aired and confirmed that Stone was indeed dead. This was not the Daniel Wilson update which was just the standard "aqua screen text" update but an actual update with Stack speaking about the case and confirming Stone's remains were located.

I´ve just watched this case on CD´s volume 2, and yes you´re right DarkDante, Robert Stack updated the segment: in February 1992, 2 hunters found the remains of David Stone near Lordsburg, Hidalgo County, New Mexico. RS also mentioned that an autopsy was unable to determine the cause or exact time of death.

In his path David left some "bizarre" clues like pyramids made of small rocks(in one of them he left his Rolex watch and two quarters). Also, apparently, he wrote, in sand, the so called Fibonacci sequence, a sequence that after two starting values, each number is the sum of the two preceding numbers: 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, etc. David Stone stopped with the number after 13, but, instead of 21(13+8), he wrote 18. For his father this was unexplainable, and maybe, Mr. Stone believed, it could be some kind of S.O.S signal or a clue(his car was found at mile marker 18th. on U.S. Route 80, and during his senior year in college David´s football jersey number was 18).

In my so called "bookshelf" collection I have, an older version of the case without the update. In this version Robert Stack only mentions that David´s parents believe that he is still alive, and probably living in some kind of "New Age commune".

Isn't David the one who was making the rock formations and wrote some crazy stuff on the back of a dollar bill?

Yuppers.

The fact that his body was located in the desert might suggest that he never left the desert, but that would not explain why his trail stopped on the highway. One scenario is that he did make it to the highway, but the wrong people picked him up and he met with foul play. The odds that the people that picked him up had a nefarious intent in mind are low, but it's possible. Then they dropped his body off back at the desert figuring that it was a good hiding spot. That's the only thing I can think of.

I don't think he most people would have given him a ride, though. They probably figured he didn't have it all together, and would have been reluctant to give him a lift, especially since they were probably wondering what in the world he was doing in the desert. So I think if anyone picked him up they had an evil intent.

phillipscurve, please let us know what else you find in your bookshelf collection.

In my so called "bookshelf" collection I have, an older version of the case

Did you find any episodes that were in English?

I was thinking about this case today and I strongly believe that David had some kind of mental breakdown that began in the days before his disappearance. He was a stock market analyst. These types tend to be wound pretty tight. He attacked a man at a house party - a move his friends thought was highly out of character.

Then there was the obvious mistake in the Fibonacci sequence, the odd and seemingly indecipherable note that was found in his car, the fact that he left valuables, like his Rolex, in random places in the desert.

The UM segment hinted toward the possibility that David might have been signaling that he was in trouble. I think it's pretty obvious that he was a few sandwiches short of a picnic at that point and irrational thinking caused him to leave behind the clues that he did. In other words, there wasn't much of a message there that could be deciphered by us sane folk.

Did the update mention where his remains were found in the desert? I doubt it, but it would be interesting to know the proximity in relation to the "clues", his abandoned car, the spot where his scent was found etc. Maybe he was picked up by someone only to be dropped a small distance away and he wandered back in to a different part of the desert.

I think that he died from exposure. He was not in his right mind and certainly wouldn't have been able to survive in the desert for very long. He probably spent more time leaving those bizarre messages and talking to himself than he did looking for food, water and shelter.

I think that he died from exposure. He was not in his right mind and certainly wouldn't have been able to survive in the desert for very long. He probably spent more time leaving those bizarre messages and talking to himself than he did looking for food, water and shelter.
not to mention that he was wearing a short-sleeved shirt and shorts during a time where several people who saw him said was odd given how cold it was.

Did you find any episodes that were in English?

Only the last part of David Stone´s case (where Robert Stack mentions that David´s parents believe that he is still alive) is in english. The rest of the case, and the rest of the episode, is in spanish. It seems that whoever made the tape could change the audio between spanish-english at will. However that small part is the only one that I have found in english so far.

By the way, the episode also includes the "Katie" segment that you, justins, mentioned in the other thread (Lifetime editing question), and it includes the additional footage of her father-in-law´s ghost "passing through" the kitchen, before "disappearing" in one bedroom. At the beginning of the episode, I think, RS did mention that it was a "Halloween Special" episode (from 1990). The episode´s first segment is about the "Gray Man Ghost" of Pawleys Island, South Carolina, a friendly ghost who warns of impending hurricanes, like hurricane Hugo in 1989, followed by David Stone´s case; the "Katie" segment and, finally, a segment about "reincarnation". I must admit that, this is not one of my favorite episodes, David´s case being the exception.

Yes, David Stone's body I believe was found 4 years after he disappeared. I dont believe he ever left the desert, I believe he probably died of exposure a couple of days after he disappeared. According to the segment he was still alive for what was it, two days after he disappeared?

I dont know that Stone was completely off his rocker. I mean in my opinion he knew the searchers were looking for him, he probably even was watching them search and he made a deliberate attempt to avoid them. So it tells me maybe he didnt want to be found? I dont think this was a suicide, I just think that David wanted to go out and be spiritual and reflect on stuff and he got carried away with it.

It's clear to me that there's only one person who has all teh answers in this case. And that person is Tony Ballesteros. Unfortunantly I believe he was banned from this board.

It's clear to me that there's only one person who has all teh answers in this case. And that person is Tony Ballesteros. Unfortunantly I believe he was banned from this board.


What was the motive for which, Tony Ballesteros was banned? David´s parents discovered Mr. Ballesteros´ presentation card in one pocket version of the New Testament found among all the things that were recovered from David´s car. In the UM segment , Ballesteros said that he never met David Stone, and that he couldn´t explain why, his presentation card was found in David´s New Testament. Maybe Ballesteros can give more information concerning the case. Maybe. Why was he banned?

He wasn't the real "Tony Ballesteros" phillips, he was getting under the skin of crystaldawn and several of the other mods and some members here as well. He was warned and continued with his antics so TJ terminated his account apparently.

Thanks for that information DarkDante. I´m glad that this guy was banned. Thanks again.

Thanks for that information DarkDante. I´m glad that this guy was banned. Thanks again.

Hmmm. I never saw any of this guy's posts. What'd he do?

David might have been... a few sandwiches short of a picnic...


I got a good laugh out of that justins5256. I'd never heard it before.

Only the last part of David Stone´s case (where Robert Stack mentions that David´s parents believe that he is still alive) is in english. The rest of the case, and the rest of the episode, is in spanish. It seems that whoever made the tape could change the audio between spanish-english at will. However that small part is the only one that I have found in english so far.

By the way, the episode also includes the "Katie" segment that you, justins, mentioned in the other thread (Lifetime editing question), and it includes the additional footage of her father-in-law´s ghost "passing through" the kitchen, before "disappearing" in one bedroom. At the beginning of the episode, I think, RS did mention that it was a "Halloween Special" episode (from 1990). The episode´s first segment is about the "Gray Man Ghost" of Pawleys Island, South Carolina, a friendly ghost who warns of impending hurricanes, like hurricane Hugo in 1989, followed by David Stone´s case; the "Katie" segment and, finally, a segment about "reincarnation". I must admit that, this is not one of my favorite episodes, David´s case being the exception.

Obviously, the Mystery Channel here in Canada are not showing these segments in order. We saw the Gray Man Ghost and David Stone segments today in one episode followed by Amelia Earhart in the other episode. We actually saw the Katie and reincarnation segments this past Friday I believe.

I thought that UM could have done a better job on the David Stone update by telling us where exactly Stone's body was found in relation to where the dogs lost his scent.

Some thoughts have stumbled across my mind in reguards to this case..such as maybe Stone reached the intersection the dogs tracked his scent to..then in a slightly dehydrated state was picked up by a motorist, possibly even law enforcement. If Stone was in a bad sort of mental state for one reason or another or possibly even became argumentitive it could of started something with the wrong type of person. In return, his body could be dumped where it was eventually found.

Of course, another scenerio is the intersection was not the final place he wandered and he eventually died from other means. Some people would say exposure. I have a harder time making sense of this then if foul play had somehow insued. All that can be done is speculation.

If he was murdered, wouldn't you think the update would have said so?

Not if they couldn't tell how he died. From my understanding, his body was in such a state of decomposition (I'm guessing partial skeletal remains) that they couldn't tell. If he wasn't shot in the head, bludgeoned to death, or stabbed in a way that struck bone, I don't think that authorities COULD conclusively determine what happened to him.

I still say death due to dehydration/exposure.

Yeah, I watched this case again last night and apparently they couldn't tell the cause of death because of the body being so badly decomposed. I'm pretty sure they didn't see any major signs of trauma on him, so he (like you said) more than likely died from exposure, hunger, and/or dehydration of some kind. He seemed like he walked as far as he could, then probably ran out of water and food, and succombed.

Does anyone know what the cryptic note he left behind read? I know it ended in 'Halloween' but can't remember the rest of it.

Does anyone know what the cryptic note he left behind read? I know it ended in 'Halloween' but can't remember the rest of it.

"they think the WORD is in the safe. six knives in Rob's room. you's buys you's tea's and you's takes you's chances. Halloween."

I recalled all of that from memory. Uh-oh. I think I watch too much UM.:lol:

Thanks! I tried to find it on google but had no luck. That is really bizarre.

Not to speak ill of the dead :( , but I sort of got the impression that David Stone, being a rather privileged young man (yuppie is not exactly the word I'm looking for, but something a little more graceful similar to it), probably grossly underestimated the elements and his ability to handle them. People say and do really strange things in extreme heat when they've gone without food and water.

That note always freaked me out, though. Not because there's necessarily something omnious in it. It's utterly nonsensical, but was written by an otherwise normal, healthy man. I don't know. I suppose most people get a little unsettled by things that don't make sense when "they should."

I love that witness, though. "I thought he was weird, heh heh."

The second best note ever on UM.

But still a distant second to "you el sickos will pay." :lol:

"they think the WORD is in the safe. six knives in Rob's room. you's buys you's tea's and you's takes you's chances. Halloween."

I recalled all of that from memory. Uh-oh. I think I watch too much UM.:lol:


Dang, man. That was impressive! :D

I think that whole segment, from beginniing to end, is freaky. From the mysterious note to the numbers drawn in the sand. What also struck me as odd is why did he leave is expensive Rolex watch on the ground? I think the watch was found next to a pyramid of rocks. Very, very strange. :confused:

Just got through watching this segment, I don't think I'd ever seen it before.

One theory that immediately popped into my head was the possibility that David was under the influence of some kind of drug(s) and that this led to his odd and disoriented behavior. Now, I'm not trying to paint all New Age followers as LSD-dropping hippies, but I do wonder if he hadn't taken some kind of hallucinogenic to aid him in his "vision quest". Peyote, perhaps?

I've never experimented with hallucinogens, but I've certainly heard stories of people experiencing "bad trips" while using them. Perhaps that is what happened to David, and he didn't even really know what he was doing when he wandered off into the desert.

One theory that immediately popped into my head was the possibility that David was under the influence of some kind of drug(s) and that this led to his odd and disoriented behavior. Now, I'm not trying to paint all New Age followers as LSD-dropping hippies, but I do wonder if he hadn't taken some kind of hallucinogenic to aid him in his "vision quest". Peyote, perhaps?

I've never experimented with hallucinogens, but I've certainly heard stories of people experiencing "bad trips" while using them. Perhaps that is what happened to David, and he didn't even really know what he was doing when he wandered off into the desert.

True, he could've been high on something. A witness observed him talking to himself. But maybe he was the type of person that spoke to himself, I don't know. Another witness had asked him if he needed a ride and observed that he was wearing shorts, which he thought was strange because it was cold out. All that odd behavior may indicate that he was under the influence of a hallucinogent. We may never know.

"I AM THE POWER! I AM THE POWER!"

I never thought of the hallocenogenic drug/peyote angle, ms_bates. That makes a lot of sense to me.

"I AM THE POWER! I AM THE POWER!"

Oh yeah!! I forgot he said that, totally weird! And all those hand motions. The music was freaky when he was walking over those railroad tracks.

Oh yeah!! I forgot he said that, totally weird! And all those hand motions. The music was freaky when he was walking over those railroad tracks.

That music is scary--there's all these weird spacey sounds in it. I turn it down so I can't hear it most of the time. I've seen the segment so many times I already know when it's coming, and when it's over. I also get creeped out when they show that photo of him and zoom in on his face, all the while with that music playing. I don't even like that first picture they show of him in a suit at the beginning.

This is an intriguing case because of the clues, but I think it's pretty clear that he didn't meet with foul play and died out in the desert by himself. The clues he left behind indicate to me (just a guess) that he was on a "spiritual journey" and shedding his past and his reliance on material things. The numbers in the dirt seemed like he was trying to "free himself" of two numbers he used to think were so important (his football jersey number and the wall street sequence), effectively leaving them behind on his quest. He also "shed" his Rolex on the same path.

"The WORD is in the safe" strikes me as a reference to money being "holy", and the "you take your chances" bit as David's way of saying he's finally gonna go on his journey, no matter the consequences. I have no idea what the knives thing is about. Maybe it's some sort of in joke. :p

It occurred to me that David may have had a brain tumor. His behavior and personality changed suddenly and drastically. I agree that drugs are a strong possibility, but I also see a tumor as an option.

The note freaked me out too. I wrote it down and tried to figure out if it was a message written in code, but I'm not good at those things.:confused:

"WORD" written all in capital letters, seems to refer to the word of God, so I agree that part is an editorial about people thinking they can find the meaning of life in money.

His story makes me sad.

This is an intriguing case because of the clues, but I think it's pretty clear that he didn't meet with foul play and died out in the desert by himself. The clues he left behind indicate to me (just a guess) that he was on a "spiritual journey" and shedding his past and his reliance on material things. The numbers in the dirt seemed like he was trying to "free himself" of two numbers he used to think were so important (his football jersey number and the wall street sequence), effectively leaving them behind on his quest. He also "shed" his Rolex on the same path.

"The WORD is in the safe" strikes me as a reference to money being "holy", and the "you take your chances" bit as David's way of saying he's finally gonna go on his journey, no matter the consequences. I have no idea what the knives thing is about. Maybe it's some sort of in joke. :p
"they think the WORD is in the safe. six knives in Rob's room. you's buys you's tea's and you's takes you's chances. Halloween."

they think the WORD is in the safe ... could be folks think money can buy happiness, similar to that.

six knives in Rob's room ... cannot speculate about the name, can say six knives could be six senses. See, hear, smell, taste, touch. Then add the sixth sense, psychic. Those are what we perceive this existence by. Some that sixth sense. Those can fool us because we believe or disbelieve of that. What we believe or disbelieve can stab us in the back, because again we cannot see behind us kind of thing, and, what we believe to disbelieve again of those senses, etc.

you's buys you's tea's and you's takes you's chances ... if a person of a belief/disbelief makes of that what to think what is is, what is not, is not, or the mix of that, then you get what you pay for. It's not I don't know. It's what I think reality is, or is not. So if I believe in something, something happens to opposite of that, well then I got what I paid for, for my belief. Took that chance, found myself maybe in peril of that choice of risk to believe, or the not of it. Whatever direction that took me.

the Beast ... don't know, maybe he wanted truth of evil in this reality looking for that. Or simply finding something to truth of what is this cause of hurt, kill, and destroy going on with choices folks live here this existence doing what folks do. Maybe this Beast is that cause, he went to find that, met that fate the way David Stone did.

"they think the WORD is in the safe. six knives in Rob's room. you's buys you's tea's and you's takes you's chances. Halloween."

they think the WORD is in the safe ... could be folks think money can buy happiness, similar to that.

six knives in Rob's room ... cannot speculate about the name, can say six knives could be six senses. See, hear, smell, taste, touch. Then add the sixth sense, psychic. Those are what we perceive this existence by. Some that sixth sense. Those can fool us because we believe or disbelieve of that. What we believe or disbelieve can stab us in the back, because again we cannot see behind us kind of thing, and, what we believe to disbelieve again of those senses, etc.

you's buys you's tea's and you's takes you's chances ... if a person of a belief/disbelief makes of that what to think what is is, what is not, is not, or the mix of that, then you get what you pay for. It's not I don't know. It's what I think reality is, or is not. So if I believe in something, something happens to opposite of that, well then I got what I paid for, for my belief. Took that chance, found myself maybe in peril of that choice of risk to believe, or the not of it. Whatever direction that took me.

the Beast ... don't know, maybe he wanted truth of evil in this reality looking for that. Or simply finding something to truth of what is this cause of hurt, kill, and destroy going on with choices folks live here this existence doing what folks do. Maybe this Beast is that cause, he went to find that, met that fate the way David Stone did.

Ummm...can I have some of what you're smoking? Or is it a "natural high?"

Ummm...can I have some of what you're smoking? Or is it a "natural high?"
You'll have to go to the store. It's tobacco.

You'll have to go to the store. It's tobacco.

:lol:

"The Beast", as to my understanding, is all the evil, negative energy that's within us all. David set out on that vision quest to "conquer his demons" as a way to become a stronger, wiser, and spiritually better human being. I don't know what all those weird symbols were that he left behind, but ultimately that's what he was doing. It's extremely possible he was under the influence of something while doing this.

As for what happened to him, I think he might of gotten a ride from someone out on the highway and was dropped off on another portion of the highway and went back out into the desert where he most likely died to the elements.

What also struck me as odd is why did he leave is expensive Rolex watch on the ground? I think the watch was found next to a pyramid of rocks. Very, very strange. :confused:

All the hallmarks of a satanic cult. :wave:



One theory that immediately popped into my head was the possibility that David was under the influence of some kind of drug(s) and that this led to his odd and disoriented behavior. Now, I'm not trying to paint all New Age followers as LSD-dropping hippies, but I do wonder if he hadn't taken some kind of hallucinogenic to aid him in his "vision quest". Peyote, perhaps?

I've never experimented with hallucinogens, but I've certainly heard stories of people experiencing "bad trips" while using them. Perhaps that is what happened to David, and he didn't even really know what he was doing when he wandered off into the desert.

I think he was on a quest to find Jim Morrison. Break on through the the other side, if you will.

He probably became delirious after a day or two without people around him and obviously without food/water. I don't think he ever left the desert.

He appeared to have suffered from a dissociative personality disorder or schizotypal personality disorder (magical thinking). Look up "dissociative disorder" on Wikipedia.

I don't buy in the drug angle, though I can see why one would think of that as a likely scenario. Drug trips don't last that long. DMT, for example, lasts around 15 minutes. He was clearly in the desert for some time. Meth is one of the most powerful things, and a bad high on meth can last up to 16 hours. No hallucinogen lasts that long, and he was clearly in the desert for more than 16 hours.

The relevant information in this case is missing. "New Age" seems to be thrown out there arbitrarily and without meaning. I'm sure the New Age movement has a lot of variance. So, what books did David Stone read in the time leading up to this journey? Who were Stone's friends? Did he leave behind anything linking him with an actual organization or set of people involved with the New Age movement? If not, then he clearly suffered from a mental illness and needed help that no one noticed or cared to give him.

I tend to think David Stone was a high strung, "yuppie" (for lack of a better term) guy who got swept up in this "New Age" movement to better himself and his anger issues. I think when he went to the desert, the lack of food and water (and the exposure to the cold climate) was something he wasn't prepared for, which could account for his odd behavior and ultimately his death. I don't think he ever made it out of the desert, I just think the dogs missed his scent for some reason. I also doubt his death was from anything other than exposure.

"they think the WORD is in the safe. six knives in Rob's room. you's buys you's tea's and you's takes you's chances. Halloween."

I recalled all of that from memory. Uh-oh. I think I watch too much UM.:lol:

Has anyone tried to decode this? I think it's fascinating that he wrote it.

They think the WORD is in the safe. (I take this to mean, they are looking for their spiritual guidance, The Word meaning God's law in the safe, in the bank.

Six knives in Rob's Room. (I'm not sure what Rob's room is, maybe he knew someone named Rob.) In the tarot, the six of knives, swords, is a card about making a journey away from something that is painful or difficult, but necessary in order to have further growth. Sometimes you have to leave something behind that you care about, but you have to move on to survive. This card could represent a vision quest, or perhaps his desire never to go back to his old life. The knives are also a reference to his violence which he went to the desert to confront, and a life where you are always on the attack, like the guy he beat up at the party.

You takes your tea and yous take your chances...this is a play on "you pay your money and you take your chances".. this could be him again, mocking the monied world that he came from as a stock analyst and the wealth of his family. Tea is also another world for marijuana. I think in this case, he might have taken something, smoked peyote or done mushrooms in order to enhance his vision, something in the Native American tradition I understand, but not, I think, unsupervised and alone. I think hallucinogenics may have been what contributed to his psychotic break and the fact that he was totally unprepared to be out in the elements. I think he was high as a kite, and I think he also knew there was risk involved, but he was willing to do it for his spiritual transformation. There is also a connection between the root words Hallucinogenics and Halloween. I think he was looking for illumination.

Halloween marks the day he disappeared but it also has significance - in medieval times, Halloween was considered the time where the spirit and physical world were at their closest proximity to each other, resulting in the potential for magical things to happen. The fact that he chose this time, or it chose him is significant as well.

I think this is poem is an incantation - David's way of saying that he renounces his old life and opens himself to spirit guidance.

economistman - that was an excellent post!!

economistman - that was an excellent post!!


Thanks so much, Farina. I appreciate your taking the time!

You takes your tea and yous take your chances

I've also heard the phrase as "you takes your ticket and you takes your chance," referring to a raffle or similar luck-based contest. It might be a corruption of that, which Mr. Stone misarticulated in his mental state.

I don't think David Stone made it out of the desert. The search dogs might have been thrown off course by something else they picked up out in that vast area of desert and highway.

This case has so many similarities to Don Kemp. They both probably suffered from some psychological trauma and it caused erratic behavior which might have caused them to hallucinate to the point of trying to escape or find something that wasn't there.

I think the trail he left, including the rock pyramids and sand numbers were a way of marking his trail and/or signaling to any search parties that might come looking for him. He realized he was in danger somehow and might have seen a small aircraft passing over him, indicating they knew he was missing, and he did his best to help the search parties but they were too late to save him.

I looked this up to mention that the 6 knives could be the 6 of swords in a tarot deck, which when upright represent a rite of passage, but I see I was beat to it.

It can also represent an unfortunate but necessary transition. Inverted it can represent an inability to move on.

I think the incorrect Fibonacci sequence may have been read into too much. While the last number should have been 21 (8+13) I think it is possible that in his possibly delirious state, he made a mistake and added 5 + 13.

Fibonacci sequences are also found in nature. Fractals use them. Spirals use them.

He appeared to have suffered from a dissociative personality disorder or schizotypal personality disorder (magical thinking). Look up "dissociative disorder" on Wikipedia.

I strongly disagree. Besides DID being extremely, extremely rare, there's nothing to really indicate David had a personality disorder. Potentially a mood disorder, if anything, given his reported aggressive outbursts. But not a personality disorder, especially not DID--and probably not SPD. Those who suffer from that disorder don't host parties at their homes, or play for four years on their college football team. Magical thinking is a symptom, not a disorder, and there's really nothing to suggest David had it.

I don't buy in the drug angle, though I can see why one would think of that as a likely scenario. Drug trips don't last that long. DMT, for example, lasts around 15 minutes. He was clearly in the desert for some time. Meth is one of the most powerful things, and a bad high on meth can last up to 16 hours. No hallucinogen lasts that long, and he was clearly in the desert for more than 16 hours.

I actually find the "drug angle" more likely.

This is an individual exhibiting extremely uncharacteristic behavior, and involved in a movement that borrows heavily from the spiritual traditions of many American Indian tribes. The so-called "vision quest" is a good example of this. Some southwestern tribes--namely the Navajo--have a history of using peyote--mescaline--in shamanistic rituals. The Native American Church also utilizes peyote in some of its ceremonies. Mescaline is a hallucinogen, and to the contrary, its effects can last for over ten hours.

I'm not saying it's what happened at all. But I could envision it.

If not, then he clearly suffered from a mental illness and needed help that no one noticed or cared to give him.

You've jumped to a pretty rapid conclusion, not only about what happened, but about those close to David.

Sometimes even extreme heat and dehydration make people behave very strangely. It could be as simple as that. It could be the ingestion of some substance, whether from David trying to eat or drink something in the desert he didn't know would alter his consciousness, or if he could identify those things and intentionally consumed them.

I just have a hard time buying that he had a personality disorder. He could have had an aggression or anger control issue, perhaps. But clinically, that is not a personality disorder, nor do I think it's related in any way to bellowing non-sensical phrases all over the desert or making pyramids out of pebbles.

I also don't believe that David had a mental illness. You would expect to see signs of it from earlier in his life. As Meg said, he was very successful and high functioning. Mental illness (especially ones that cause hallucinations and/or delusions) don't often come on suddenly. It's much more likely that he experienced his thought decline due to experimenting with mind-enhancing drugs and/or from heat exhaustion as he wandered the desert on his spiritual quest. You ever had sun poisoning? I have. You become totally delirious and off the wall.

I, too, think he got sun loopy. It doesn't take much. Or long. Not where he was. Especially if he wasn't particularly well hydrated when he left the car.

This case is strewn with New Age symbols.
-He set out on Samhain. (the day which some pagans believe the veil between the living and the dead lifts)
-Fibonacci's sequence* is important to some New Agers (http://www.goddiscussion.com/61378/how-the-fibonacci-sequence-shows-our-eternal-and-evolving-nature/)
-The six of swords as we referenced earlier
-The pyramids*

*these things involve the Golden Ratio which happens if the ratio of the sum of 2 (a and b where a is the smaller number) numbers to the larger number is the same as the ration of the larger number to the smaller number.
(a+b)/b=b/a. Fibonacci's sequence approximates the golden ratio in whole numbers. Pyramids are built to the Golden Ratio

I wonder if the WORD is safe could have been miswritten and supposed to tbe the WORLD is safe.

(Ok, that's enough math for 1:30 on a friday night)

I, too, think he got sun loopy. It doesn't take much. Or long. Not where he was. Especially if he wasn't particularly well hydrated when he left the car.

This is an excellent point which could account for his odd behavior, his weird writings, and his botched writing out of the Fibonacci sequence. I don't think he was on drugs or had a mental problem (outside of an anger issue), I just think the heat was getting to him.

Just bumping this because it was on my mind recently...

What was your take on Tony Ballesteros (sp?)?

Out of all the people interviewed on UM who could have been considered a suspect or person of interest in a crime/disappearance, it was my impression that he was completely innocent, and had no connection to David Stone. I actually kind of felt bad for how he got dragged in to the case.

Just bumping this because it was on my mind recently...

What was your take on Tony Ballesteros (sp?)?

Out of all the people interviewed on UM who could have been considered a suspect or person of interest in a crime/disappearance, it was my impression that he was completely innocent, and had no connection to David Stone. I actually kind of felt bad for how he got dragged in to the case.

I don't think there is any actual connection between Tony and David. Plus, there is absolutely no evidence David was the victim of foul play. There was mentioned the possibility that David simply stumbled across his business card after either Tony or someone else who had a copy of his card dropped it in the desert near a campsite. Or maybe David found it while on his way to where he eventually parked his car on Highway 80; like a small town with businesses like a gas station or something.

I feel that the business card of Tony Ballesteros is a red herring, just like virtually everything in this segment is a red herring. The Fibonacci code, the pyramids, the watch, the strange message are all the work of somebody who was exhibiting mental issues shortly before their disappearance. All of the "clues", quite frankly, don't add up to a hill of beans in my book. I have any number of business cards in my wallet at any time (doctors, etc) -- it doesn't mean any of them would be responsible if I disappeared. I don't think David was the victim of foul play as there is no discernible motive, he disappeared in a deserted area and nobody that knew him knew he was out there. I think he died of either heatstroke, thirst, starvation or an attack by some animal.

With that being said, here are some random observations I had from re-watching this segment yesterday.

-The witness that claimed to have stumbled upon David and offered him a ride. I think if I encountered someone carrying a large stick and speaking nonsensical things, I would probably get the hell out of there.

-I am curious that the business card just says "Tony Ballesteros" in the center, and his job title or what have you isn't immediately noticeable. Why would someone need to contact him then?

-Regarding the note ("They think the WORD is in the safe. Six knives in Rob's room. You's buys your teas and you's take you's chances. Halloween.") I noticed that "WORD" is in all capital letters. I wonder if that is an acronym. Again, I don't think it really amounts to anything, just a curious observation.

-When Stack says that David Stone went on a "vision quest", I thought of the movie Vision Quest. I rented it many years ago and the only thing I remember about it was the underwear sniffing scene.

That is all.

Just bumping this because it was on my mind recently...

What was your take on Tony Ballesteros (sp?)?

Out of all the people interviewed on UM who could have been considered a suspect or person of interest in a crime/disappearance, it was my impression that he was completely innocent, and had no connection to David Stone. I actually kind of felt bad for how he got dragged in to the case.

That was totally random to even include him. Simply because Stone had his business card in his possession?! It seemed fairly obvious that Stone found it in the desert and just picked it up and, for his own reasons, kept it.

The business card was found in his Bible. He was probably using it as a bookmark.

This wasn't the only case on UM where the significance of a business card is overplayed. Another one was Annette Kay Schnee/Bobbie Oberholtzer. Why they thought Jeff was the leading suspect because of a business card is beyond me. He picked Annette up hitchhiking one day and probably used it to drum up business, or make her feel more at ease.

I feel really bad for Jeff Oberholtzer. The investigator on that case was all 'he knew both victims, so that makes him a leading suspect." Geez, one was an area resident and the other was his WIFE!!! Totally conceivable he would know both women.

Poor guy. Had to live with those accusations all those years because the investigator was an incompetent fool.

That was totally random to even include him. Simply because Stone had his business card in his possession?! It seemed fairly obvious that Stone found it in the desert and just picked it up and, for his own reasons, kept it.

In the original version of the segment, before they added the update about Stone's remains being found, there is a little blurb at the end about how Stone's parents believed he was still alive and possibly living in a "New Age Commune."

I'm just guessing here, but if this is what the parents truly believed at the time of David's disappearance, then it would explain why they contacted Ballesteros. They likely were willing to pursue anything that might lead to an explanation.

I can understand why David's parents contacted Tony Ballesteros, but I don't think he was connected to the New Age movement in any way and was probably just some random business person. For all of the talk about Tony Ballesteros (heck, there was an even a poster/troll named Tony Ballesteros) I have to think the real Tony Ballesteros would be pretty amused there was so much discussion about him to this day.

I think Meg's theory is the best one: David Stone didn't commit suicide per se, but he worked in the financial sector and was probably completely ignorant of what it took to survive for any length of time in the desert. Call it a 'suicide by ignorance' for lack of a better term.

Interestingly, this case aired on 10/31/90, exactly two years after his disappearance. 2 years later, his remains were found.

I can understand why David's parents contacted Tony Ballesteros, but I don't think he was connected to the New Age movement in any way and was probably just some random business person. For all of the talk about Tony Ballesteros (heck, there was an even a poster/troll named Tony Ballesteros) I have to think the real Tony Ballesteros would be pretty amused there was so much discussion about him to this day.

I think Meg's theory is the best one: David Stone didn't commit suicide per se, but he worked in the financial sector and was probably completely ignorant of what it took to survive for any length of time in the desert. Call it a 'suicide by ignorance' for lack of a better term.

Interestingly, this case aired on 10/31/90, exactly two years after his disappearance. 2 years later, his remains were found.

Yes, I agree in that I doubt Ballesteros had a connection to the New Age movement. However, his card being found where it was (I think it was a pocket version of the New Testament) and perhaps how generic it was (as you noted in an earlier post - assuming that was his actual card shown on the segment) I can understand the parents contacting him.

Ironically, I was putting some books away recently and a business card slipped out of one of them. I was using the business card as a bookmark years ago. I have no idea who the guy is or what his business was though I think he might have been a client of the firm I was working for at the time. Interestingly, it's also out of state, as I picked up the business card several years ago when I was living in different state. I can just imagine the chaos that might ensue if I "mysteriously disappeared" and my family found this thing.

I believe it was DarkDante who commented on this and actually began a thread about it at one point - people who disappear in the desert or prairie. There have been at least three on UM that I can immediately recall: Don Kemp, David Stone, and Daniel Wilson. You have to wonder what motivated these guys to just start wandering aimlessly out there where chances of survival are slim to none and there is no rational reason to do so. It just seems like such an odd way to go out.

Yes, the episode originally aired on Halloween Night, 1990, approximately 2 years after David Stone vanished. UM was good about doing this some times. I know that Tara Calico episode aired exactly one year after she disappeared. I believe Stack mentioned that.

I've always wished more info was disclosed about the remains that were found. Specifically, where they were found in relation to the other clues Stone left behind.

I believe it was DarkDante who commented on this and actually began a thread about it at one point - people who disappear in the desert or prairie. There have been at least three on UM that I can immediately recall: Don Kemp, David Stone, and Daniel Wilson. You have to wonder what motivated these guys to just start wandering aimlessly out there where chances of survival are slim to none and there is no rational reason to do so. It just seems like such an odd way to go out.


Of which the David Stone disappearance into the desert is at least in my opinion by far the most mysterious. UM offered what I feel to be a rather plausible explanation as to what may have happened to Dan Wilson regarding the possibility of carbon monoxide poisoning but I also think it's just as likely that Wilson was a suicide (were the authorities able to gauge anything by examining his remains? I don't think so?)

On the forums I think we have come up with a decent theory as to what may have happened to Donald Kemp. I believe a lot of folks on the forum seem to subscribe to the theory that Kemp may have had a minor stroke which left him without the faculties to make it back to his vehicle. I have to say even though I still have some questions about the Kemp case, the idea that Don Kemp's demise had something to do with a medical issue does seem likely to me.

David Stone is just another matter all together. The only thing I can think of is he died from exhaustion/exposure to the elements or what have you. He could have been out there in the desert on his vision quest, got disorientated and was unable to make it back to the highway. There are some really bizarre things about this case though which have been discussed whether it be the numbers in the sand or leaving his Bible behind. Just a lot of odd things that make you wonder what really did happen out there.

Yep, Stack did mention the one year anniversary of Tara's disappearance.

I am in the belief that David Stone was having mental issues shortly before his disappearance. Anyone that punches someone 20-25 times over a minor incident is probably not of sound mind. Stone didn't have any previous issues with mental health that I'm aware of, but these things can come on suddenly and out of the blue. A good example would be Mark Luplow, whom I just mentioned in "All Other Cases".

In the original version of the segment, before they added the update about Stone's remains being found, there is a little blurb at the end about how Stone's parents believed he was still alive and possibly living in a "New Age Commune."

I'm just guessing here, but if this is what the parents truly believed at the time of David's disappearance, then it would explain why they contacted Ballesteros. They likely were willing to pursue anything that might lead to an explanation.

I understand why David's parents would want to contact him, but I just though UM added an unnecessary part to the segment to play up the mysterious angle. Assuming of course that Ballesteros was contacted by Law Enforcement and ruled out before the segment was filmed.

I remember the original segment with Stack from many years ago when I first saw it and watched a couple of more times. They just re-aired this segment with Dennis Farina doing the hosting duties. I have to say after reading all of the replies in this thread the one that seems to now make the most sense is that he simply died of exposure. I do agree with one of the posts mentioning that he comes off as a stuck up preppy type that certainly underestimated the extreme weather changes in the desert. No hat and under the heat of the sun wandering around probably made him go batty. The one part of the segment that always interested me was when they spoke to one of the guys that went looking for him and said he had that strange feeling that David was watching them and refused to come out. That's telling, says to me that indeed if he was in his right mind he made the choice to elude them and if he was not in the right mind he might have been afraid of them.

Some of you guys did a great job deciphering that note which to this day still makes no sense. Great work guys and indeed the simplest answer seems to fit that he just dies of exposure. Still one of their creepiest segments for sure.

I feel that David was under some mental/emotional pressure and strain, due to how the influence of his New Age religion was having on him, and it caused him to attack that guy for whatever reason, and feeling ashamed of what he did, David went out to find "the beast", possibly meaning some kind of spiritual thing that would help him find forgiveness for how he acted.

I also find it interesting that one of the people who witnessed David wandering around in the desert said they were surprised he'd be wearing shorts that time of year. Are the autumns in New Mexico that cold? I always thought that New Mexico was hot and sticky all year round.

Ultimately, David had to have died from exposure. The heat mostly likely made him dehydrated, weak and delirious, and not being able to think straight or having anything with him to help keep him hydrated, he succumbed to hyperthermia/dehydration. It was said that the time and cause of death could not be determined, but as far as we know, there was no indication of foul play or suicide.

I also find it interesting that one of the people who witnessed David wandering around in the desert said they were surprised he'd be wearing shorts that time of year. Are the autumns in New Mexico that cold? I always thought that New Mexico was hot and sticky all year round.

I am with you there and since I dont really know I just had to pull up the weather (average) temps for New Mexico from last year

Climate Los Alamos - New Mexico °F
Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug
Average High F - 39 43 51 59 69 78 61 78
Average Low F 19 22 27 34 43 52 56 55


Sep Oct Nov Dec
Average High F - 72 61 49 39
Average Low F - 48 38 27 20


The lows are pretty brutal so it came as a surprise to me as well. So David could have easily died of exposure and after a number of days dealing with those temperature changes can be brutal.

I think Mark Dennis killed him.

I think Mark Dennis killed him.

No. I really think Ballesteros did it. I mean, Stone had his business card, how else could he have gotten it?

Stone was rich. He had an authentic Rolex. Rich people are targeted for robberies. He could have been robbed out there in the desert.

There is Tony Ballesteros, who was interviewed in the segment, and Tony Ballesteros the poster.

Tony Ballesteros the poster was a trip. I think he might have been a bit before my time (man, that was a long time ago) and was eventually put on global ignore, but you can still see traces of his existence in quotes of his posts. I stumbled on one recently, where he called the boy in the Message in a Bottle segment a "fat little dork" and called him and his mother "idiots". I can just imagine what his collected works might look like.

I remember there was some speculation that he was the *real* Tony Ballesteros, but I think that was disproved and put to rest.

I also find it interesting that one of the people who witnessed David wandering around in the desert said they were surprised he'd be wearing shorts that time of year. Are the autumns in New Mexico that cold? I always thought that New Mexico was hot and sticky all year round.

I lived in southern Arizona for about half a year in a county that borders the area where David Stone disappeared. I saw nearly a foot of snow on the ground there in December once. The desert can get bitterly cold and icy. It was probably some of the most beautiful and amazing landscape I've ever seen.

I lived in southern Arizona for about half a year in a county that borders the area where David Stone disappeared. I saw nearly a foot of snow on the ground there in December once. The desert can get bitterly cold and icy. It was probably some of the most beautiful and amazing landscape I've ever seen.
This. I've been to deserts all over the southwest. Once the sun goes down, it can get absolutely freezing.

I lived in southern Arizona for about half a year in a county that borders the area where David Stone disappeared. I saw nearly a foot of snow on the ground there in December once. The desert can get bitterly cold and icy. It was probably some of the most beautiful and amazing landscape I've ever seen.

I'm jealous.

I went to New Mexico in July back in 2003 and it was depressingly hot during the daytime. The next morning we woke up and dressed appropriately for what we thought would be another hot summer day and it was freezing cold at day break. People can be unprepared, as Stone obviously was, for the western weather.

I'm jealous.

I went to New Mexico in July back in 2003 and it was depressingly hot during the daytime. The next morning we woke up and dressed appropriately for what we thought would be another hot summer day and it was freezing cold at day break. People can be unprepared, as Stone obviously was, for the western weather.

Absolutely loved it there. Definitely planning on going back for vacation sometime in the next few years.

I think unprepared is precisely what David Stone was. The whole case really sucks. The guy was evidently an intelligent, talented, and successful individual. I wonder what circumstances brought him to aimlessly wandering around the desert.

It occurred to me that David may have had a brain tumor. His behavior and personality changed suddenly and drastically. I agree that drugs are a strong possibility, but I also see a tumor as an option.
I think in light of what we're beginning to understand about playing football, which David Stone did throughout his young life, he may have been experiencing some cognitive brain disfunction issues as after-effects from playing football. I think there is a strong possibility he may have been suffering from CTE which would explain the violent outbursts and odd behavior.

good point. never understood why americans love this barbaric sport, should be banned and not played at all

good point. never understood why americans love this barbaric sport, should be banned and not played at all

Oh, like no one's ever spit out teeth playing hockey.

That being said, the long-term consequences of repeated head trauma in sports is a serious matter. David Stone's angry outburst at the party is consistent with the irritability often suffered by people who have sustained TBIs. However, that particular injury pattern can't really explain the other behaviors he exhibited just prior to his disappearance, such as the religiosity and related behaviors. People who have had their dome rocked multiple times get headaches, forget things, lose visual focus, become irritable. They don't normally do things like search for The Beast and scribble Fibonacci sequences in the dirt.

But, as Jetjack said, we're really just beginning to better understand TBI and mTBI. I've known several people who have been diagnosed with it and it unfortunately remains to be seen what long-term consequences they may suffer as a result. I hope the DoD and VA continue to fund research and treatment here in the States.

i also believe the actor he punched in the segment was the same guy who played adam hecht.

I think in light of what we're beginning to understand about playing football, which David Stone did throughout his young life, he may have been experiencing some cognitive brain disfunction issues as after-effects from playing football. I think there is a strong possibility he may have been suffering from CTE which would explain the violent outbursts and odd behavior.

I agree with this. I recently re-watched the segment and when his father mentioned him being a terror on the field, I immediately thought of CTE.

I agree with this. I recently re-watched the segment and when his father mentioned him being a terror on the field, I immediately thought of CTE.

Given our recent developments in this area of brain research, I have to agree. It all kinda falls into place...

I believe that David did drugs. He displayed erratic behavior for someone who led a successful, and normal lifestyle for a while, and his change had seem to be overnight. I believe he was abusing drugs before he got involved in this new age movement, could've been the reason why he got interested in the first place. Him attacking his friend out of nowhere seems to indicate that.

For him to leave his belongings behind it could've been a "shedding of his past or materialistic belongings". I wonder if the rocks he set-up could've been markers so in case he got lost he had a familiar sight to lead him back to his car.

Oh, and for the people speculating about him making it out of the desert, because the dogs picked his scent up near the highway, someone/something could've took a possession off of him and headed in that direction, not him personally.

Just watched this one on Hulu. Did a quick Google map of where he disappeared (Granite Peak) and where he was found (Granite Gap). It's a solid 70 miles by road through at least one town (Truth or Consequences) and around a reservoir. He had to have hitched hiked between the two.

The CTE angle is interesting, I think it's also possible he had schizophrenia that was just starting to manifest. The part about "you takes your tea and you takes your chances" probably relates to some hallucinogenic he acquired that he drank like a tea, and made his mental condition worse.

I think in light of what we're beginning to understand about playing football, which David Stone did throughout his young life, he may have been experiencing some cognitive brain disfunction issues as after-effects from playing football. I think there is a strong possibility he may have been suffering from CTE which would explain the violent outbursts and odd behavior.

I am a medical reporter and have written about concussions, CTE and TBI. The points made in the post above are extremely plausible.

At the time that the segment was filmed, David was still missing, so naturally his family had hoped he had gone off on a "vision quest" and was still alive. I don't fault UM for playing up the "New Age" angle in the segment. The segment says David attacked his friend at a party on October 28th, 1988. The next day he told his friend he was going to go away for a few days to work on his anger issues. What UM left out, for reasons unknown, was that David left his home in San Diego and was traveling to El Paso, Texas to be the best man in his friend's wedding! So he actually had a reason to be out in the New Mexico area. When he never arrived for the rehearsal, his father began contacting law enforcement. You can read this article (https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=886&dat=19920414&id=ImNLAAAAIBAJ&sjid=p30DAAAAIBAJ&pg=7101,4019698&hl=en) written shortly after his remains were found which contains this new info.

So knowing this new information, I wonder if it's possible that David's car was leaking carbon monoxide (a la Dan Wilson), and that is the reason for his sudden departure of his route to El Paso. He (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/31.7602277,-106.4896975/Rodeo,+NM/@32.0519893,-108.883924,8z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m9!4m8!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x86d9905a4f8e8c3b:0x557722a1a2d5dd72!2m2!1d-109.0311699!2d31.8353718!3e0) was about 3 hours away from his destination when he stopped off in New Mexico. Like Dan Wilson, he diverted off his intended destination and went elsewhere. Like Dan Wilson, he became violent and angry seemingly out of nowhere shortly before he disappeared. And like Dan Wilson, he abandoned his car and set out on foot before perishing. I think that this is a possible explanation for his erratic behavior, and the weird clues he left behind.

At the time that the segment was filmed, David was still missing, so naturally his family had hoped he had gone off on a "vision quest" and was still alive. I don't fault UM for playing up the "New Age" angle in the segment. The segment says David attacked his friend at a party on October 28th, 1988. The next day he told his friend he was going to go away for a few days to work on his anger issues. What UM left out, for reasons unknown, was that David left his home in San Diego and was traveling to El Paso, Texas to be the best man in his friend's wedding! So he actually had a reason to be out in the New Mexico area. When he never arrived for the rehearsal, his father began contacting law enforcement. You can read this article (https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=886&dat=19920414&id=ImNLAAAAIBAJ&sjid=p30DAAAAIBAJ&pg=7101,4019698&hl=en) written shortly after his remains were found which contains this new info.

So knowing this new information, I wonder if it's possible that David's car was leaking carbon monoxide (a la Dan Wilson), and that is the reason for his sudden departure of his route to El Paso. He (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/31.7602277,-106.4896975/Rodeo,+NM/@32.0519893,-108.883924,8z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m9!4m8!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x86d9905a4f8e8c3b:0x557722a1a2d5dd72!2m2!1d-109.0311699!2d31.8353718!3e0) was about 3 hours away from his destination when he stopped off in New Mexico. Like Dan Wilson, he diverted off his intended destination and went elsewhere. Like Dan Wilson, he became violent and angry seemingly out of nowhere shortly before he disappeared. And like Dan Wilson, he abandoned his car and set out on foot before perishing. I think that this is a possible explanation for his erratic behavior, and the weird clues he left behind.

Interesting! Good find!

The segment really did portray the situation as though David just wanted to get away to clear his head after the events at the party. While I think it's certainly within the realm of possibility he might have discussed with other people that he wanted to go to the area in which he was eventually found, leaving out the actual reason he took off on that drive in the first place was a little irresponsible on UM's part, I think. That changes the situation pretty significantly.

article (https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=886&dat=19920414&id=ImNLAAAAIBAJ&sjid=p30DAAAAIBAJ&pg=7101,4019698&hl=en) written shortly after his remains were found which contains this new info.


Off topic, but the columns on page 7B are kind of funny. One is about a new Oldsmobile with turn-by-turn navigation (how accurate or useful could that have possibly been in 1992), and an Ann Lander's column with a totally true and not made up letter from a mother blaming her daughter's prom night escapades on evil television programs. I mean, seriously, what do you think prom night is for, anyway?

Off topic, but the columns on page 7B are kind of funny. One is about a new Oldsmobile with turn-by-turn navigation (how accurate or useful could that have possibly been in 1992), and an Ann Lander's column with a totally true and not made up letter from a mother blaming her daughter's prom night escapades on evil television programs. I mean, seriously, what do you think prom night is for, anyway?

I also enjoy how this mother is blaming television for being a "co-conspirator" in changing the "ethics" of the country. Do these people have zero self awareness?

While I think it's certainly within the realm of possibility he might have discussed with other people that he wanted to go to the area in which he was eventually found, leaving out the actual reason he took off on that drive in the first place was a little irresponsible on UM's part, I think. That changes the situation pretty significantly.

Amen... This is yet another case where I now feel UM slanted the information to make it seem extra bizarre, but it came at the cost of being accurate.

It was probably schizophrenia, a TBI, drugs, great mental strss, lack of sleep, and/or CO poisoning like TheCars1986 mentioned. But something just made him get out and wander and he probably just succumbed to the elements. I don't think it was anything sinister and it's a shame he didn't get help before he died.

I also enjoy how this mother is blaming television for being a "co-conspirator" in changing the "ethics" of the country. Do these people have zero self awareness?

I mean, she may have no self awareness but shes not all that wrong. The media (tv, movies, music, news, etc) can have a huge impact on ethics / culture.

I mean, she may have no self awareness but shes not all that wrong. The media (tv, movies, music, news, etc) can have a huge impact on ethics / culture.

I guess I'm old fashioned because I think one's parents are the ones people should look to for guidance on ethics.

Recently watched the David Stone segment. Sad & puzzling, like a lot of these cases. This mystery is similar to quite a few of the UM segments; i.e., someone suddenly goes on an unexpected trip alone in a car, stops the car off at the side of the road in a desolate location, leaves the car & ends up wandering off. Then, is later found dead - presumably due to exposure/lack of food & water, etc.

However, in this case:

At the time that the segment was filmed, David was still missing, so naturally his family had hoped he had gone off on a "vision quest" and was still alive. I don't fault UM for playing up the "New Age" angle in the segment. The segment says David attacked his friend at a party on October 28th, 1988. The next day he told his friend he was going to go away for a few days to work on his anger issues. What UM left out, for reasons unknown, was that David left his home in San Diego and was traveling to El Paso, Texas to be the best man in his friend's wedding! So he actually had a reason to be out in the New Mexico area. When he never arrived for the rehearsal, his father began contacting law enforcement.

This is one of the many reasons I really like this forum. The fact that DS was going to be best man at a wedding in TX was not mentioned at all in the UM segment. So, he definitely had a reason for taking off from CA when he did. But, it still doesn't explain how/why he ended up stopping the car in NM.

So knowing this new information, I wonder if it's possible that David's car was leaking carbon monoxide (a la Dan Wilson), and that is the reason for his sudden departure of his route to El Paso......He was about 3 hours away from his destination when he stopped off in New Mexico. Like Dan Wilson, he diverted off his intended destination and went elsewhere. Like Dan Wilson, he became violent and angry seemingly out of nowhere shortly before he disappeared. And like Dan Wilson, he abandoned his car and set out on foot before perishing. I think that this is a possible explanation for his erratic behavior, and the weird clues he left behind.

Carbon moxoxide poisoning is a possibility, and one I never thought of before reading this post. And it wasn't mentioned in the UM segment, either - which I know doesn't mean much.

I also agree with other posters that David could definitely have been having mental/emotional problems that hadn't manifested themselves earlier (for whatever reason), and the breaking point was when he attacked his friend the night before the trip - seemingly for no reason. The weird note he left behind with the "Halloween" reference was bizarre & nonsensical, so who knows what he was thinking.

I also believe/know that sometimes people that are in high-stress occupations (as David apparently was) sometimes just lose it/can't take it anymore, and walk away from their successful life & material possessions, etc.

Today was exactly 29 years ago that his remains were found. I agree with the police that he died of exposure or dehydration. His body showed no signs of any kind of trauma.

According to the case description, David was seen by a farmer and a railroad worker 145 miles east of Tucson, AZ. Using G-maps, this is darn close to the off ramp off of I-10 called Roadforks NM; a jct with Hwy 80. [While I have made several trips through New Mexico on I-10, I have always known the area as Steins :D]

By looking at aerial maps, I see nothing to indicate any farming in that area so that may have been an omission by the UM writing staff not knowing how to describe the confirmed sightings on a dirt road. The other witness(es) was a trackside railroad worker. That strongly suggests that David was wondering around the North side of I-10 because that's the side of the train tracks. There are very few "roads" that are on the north side of I-10 in the area. Strangely, David ended up driving his car south on Hwy 80 which could have made an indirect connection with another Hwy 9 to travel east to make it to El Paso, but his car ended up further away (going southwest) towards Granite Peak and back to Douglas NM.

I have no idea what caused him to become so disorientated but he was no longer thinking clearly.

Wow I never knew that David was going to a wedding in El Paso. That is a revelation. I know we all want to know the reason behind why David went out into the desert. I think it could be something as simple as David was very spiritual and was looking for some mediation time with nature. He seemed to be a very confident and fit person and he may have merely underestimated how dangerous wandering in those elements can be. Interestingly I thought UM did well with integrating the locals into the segment. Their interviews seemed to hit home that they thought he was crazy for being out there. Maybe not necessarily crazy of being mentally unstable(although possible), but not being from that area and being in over his head in the fact that he was out there by his own design I’ll-equipped and alone.

David Stone obviously had some kind of breakdown, Possibly one that caused him to underestimate the elements and wander to far out in the desert, get lost and eventually succumb to the elements.

In my mind his case has some similarities with Devin Williams, the trucker who wound up in the backwoods with his semi, the guy who latched on to the wing of the plane in Kentucky that was taking off and fell to his death from it. I don't recall his name he was eventually identified though

Of course, unlike the Kentucky guy who fell from the plane we don't know precisely how David Stone and Devin Williams died. But in all three cases, I think these men had mental breakdowns that caused them to behave strangely and ultimately they wound up having untimely deaths, possibly due to their breakdowns causing them to lose their own survival instincts and do dangerous things. The human brain is a strange thing, and these cases are strong testimonies to how important mental health is and for people to recognize the signs and get help for those exhibiting signs of mental illness. But it can be tricky, because you can't force help on people.

Having just watched this segment it occurred to me that his reason for leaving town when he did very likely had something to do with the fact he assaulted someone the night previously and could have been arrested for doing so.
I don't know whether to believe the wedding angle or not. The fact that it was not mentioned in the segment makes me suspect that the wedding timing does not line up with his departure, that he was supposed to fly to El paso, or that the entire thing was misreporting in the first place.
The location of the body, combined with the dog track, makes foul play a possibility in my mind, although death by exposure is more likely.
Drugs seem like a distinct possibility, though not perhaps strictly required as the exposure would eventually produce similar effects

It may be mentioned already somewhere but it just dawned on me that the pyramid rocks that David made most likely were cairns(trail markers that hikers make on trails). They can be used to find ones way back, but they are often made and left for future hikers to use to stay on trail to find a summit. Its understandable that UM went with the vision quest angle and perhaps that was also relevant. It’s hard to say what David stone’s intentions were. Did he want to die in the elements? I think he did and he left several clues perhaps as distress signals so that people could find him.

Having just watched this segment it occurred to me that his reason for leaving town when he did very likely had something to do with the fact he assaulted someone the night previously and could have been arrested for doing so.


That could very well be the case. Of corse he could have been hit with guilt and that could have led him to act on it. Although not the same, Patricia Meehan disappeared in the wilderness after hitting someone head on in her vehicle. It’s hard to say what frame of mind she was in. Was she attempting suicide, avoiding arrest, or under the influence? Or was she suffering mentally?

The wedding was mentioned in a newspaper article after his remains were discovered. They named the friend of whom David was supposed to be best man in his wedding. The fact that he no showed the rehearsal is what led to him being reported missing.

Here (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Rodeo+Cemetery/@32.0498014,-109.0144039,3a,75y,27.54h,82.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ63xKyNhUqYJRdUXXmN8AQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m20!1m13!4m12!1m6!1m2!1s0x86d9ae668d611899:0xc4a8262d44900b0!2sRoadforks!2m2!1d-108.958412!2d32.230507!1m3!2m2!1d-109.0091711!2d32.0551925!3e0!3m5!1s0x86d9907026a30d03:0x2550d3da6bae37!8m2!3d31.8334247!4d-109.0093218!16s%2Fg%2F1tsykmr4) is where David's car was found abandoned. The biggest mystery about this case is why did he seemingly veer off his destination to El Paso and venture south? How would he have known about this particular mountian range?

The wedding was mentioned in a newspaper article after his remains were discovered. They named the friend of whom David was supposed to be best man in his wedding. The fact that he no showed the rehearsal is what led to him being reported missing.

Here (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Rodeo+Cemetery/@32.0498014,-109.0144039,3a,75y,27.54h,82.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ63xKyNhUqYJRdUXXmN8AQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m20!1m13!4m12!1m6!1m2!1s0x86d9ae668d611899:0xc4a8262d44900b0!2sRoadforks!2m2!1d-108.958412!2d32.230507!1m3!2m2!1d-109.0091711!2d32.0551925!3e0!3m5!1s0x86d9907026a30d03:0x2550d3da6bae37!8m2!3d31.8334247!4d-109.0093218!16s%2Fg%2F1tsykmr4) is where David's car was found abandoned. The biggest mystery about this case is why did he seemingly veer off his destination to El Paso and venture south? How would he have known about this particular mountian range?
Yeah I don’t know why he chose that location. The little bit that I know is from the segment and of corse as previously mentioned they did not mention El Paso. I think this location is a little more than half way on his journey from San Diego near the Arizona/New Mexico boarder off of IH 10. There are a lot of desert mountains on that drive. He did mention Sonora desert in the segment. He also
Mentions Sedona and Grand Canyon which were both well off of the route to El Paso. I wonder if the statement from the segment is true, it seems to be verified by his friend from the house. Maybe he wanted to hike, but was not familiar with the area and got in over his head.

I just rewatched this segment and was reminded that a few days had elapsed between David's conversation with his friend and his parents contacting the police.

Where was David during those few days? Had he taken off on multi-day journeys before without telling anyone?

Even if UM left out the part about the wedding, such an event would almost certainly not take up as much time between the time he left his friend and his parents reported him missing.

Even if UM left out the part about the wedding, such an event would almost certainly not take up as much time between the time he left his friend and his parents reported him missing.

The newspaper article I linked (https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=886&dat=19920414&id=ImNLAAAAIBAJ&sjid=p30DAAAAIBAJ&pg=7101,4019698&hl=en) in this thread tracks his movements. He left California on October 29th, and checked in to a hotel in Eloy, AZ and slept for a few hours. He got $200 in cash out of an ATM in Tucson, AZ at 10:22 p.m. on the 29th. At 4:03 a.m. the next morning, the 30th, he bought gas near Road Forks, NM and instead of heading east to El Paso, he turned and went south near Rodeo, NM. This is where he was met by Larry Rivers on the early morning hours of the 31st saying he was looking for "the beast". The cops found his car on November 2nd. He was reported missing on November 6th. According to this (https://nashuproar.org/37107/features/the-disappearance-of-david-stone/) article, David probably left earlier for the wedding than anticipated because of his violent outburst. One of the comments on this article, IMO, solves the puzzle about the Fibonacci Sequence being written incorrectly with 18. Pyramids are huge within the New Age movement that David was seemingly obsessed with. When you add up the numbers in the Fibonacci Sequence if you end with the correct number of 21, you get 54. Divide that by 3 (3 sides of a triangle/pyramid) and you get 18.

The daughter of a friend of David's wrote an article about his disappearance. Apparently, AZ is popular among New Age believers. It explains why he chose that destination. It was along the way to the wedding and a perfect opportunity for his vision quest. David was acting unusual after the fight at the party. It was like he was confused about what he did.

https://nashuproar.org/37107/features/the-disappearance-of-david-stone/

The daughter of a friend of David's wrote an article about his disappearance. Apparently, AZ is popular among New Age believers. It explains why he chose that destination. It was along the way to the wedding and a perfect opportunity for his vision quest. David was acting unusual after the fight at the party. It was like he was confused about what he did.

https://nashuproar.org/37107/features/the-disappearance-of-david-stone/

The article is interesting. Particularly what David told his friend (I think her dad) after he punched her dad’s roommate. I might have the details wrong, but that seems odd that he got so upset.

I don't know if this has been discussed, but do you think certain cultural/historical events may have impacted his thinking and led David to suffer a mental breakdown?

He disappeared in Oct 1988. There was the famous Wall St crash- Black Monday 10/19/87 and the Oliver Stone film Wall Street from Dec 1987. Both those events may have caused him to do some serious soul searching.

I think he may have had some undiagnosed mental illness that might be explain his sudden outbursts and even violent temper that flared up at the party.

This is purely anecdotal but I knew a guy from my church who suffered a similar breakdown. This guy was 2 years older than me. I was a big freshman in high school and he was a junior at a different high school. This dude could not get over that I had chosen to get a flat top hair cut. We both played high school football.

My haircut bothered him so much that he unexpectedly punched me after church. He could not deal with my choice to get a flat top- he was bald from his football team's tradition of no hair during football season. He wouldn't let it go and we never had a beef before.

I later found out from this dude's sister that this reasonably calm, well mannered young man had threatened to slash his mom's throat. The family believing that he was hearing voices to harm others. They TRIED real hard to get him committed for a 72 hour observation in a reputable facility. He represented himself and explained that it was his family in need of therapy. The court denied the motion for observation. This young man went home and committed suicide within 24 hours.

I realize that UM built up the New Age perspective, but think David suffered a mental breakdown. And it's possible that a brain injury could have resulted from playing football and or hockey.

I don't know if this has been discussed, but do you think certain cultural/historical events may have impacted his thinking and led David to suffer a mental breakdown?

He disappeared in Oct 1988. There was the famous Wall St crash- Black Monday 10/19/87 and the Oliver Stone film Wall Street from Dec 1987. Both those events may have caused him to do some serious soul searching.

I think he may have had some undiagnosed mental illness that might be explain his sudden outbursts and even violent temper that flared up at the party.

This is purely anecdotal but I knew a guy from my church who suffered a similar breakdown. This guy was 2 years older than me. I was a big freshman in high school and he was a junior at a different high school. This dude could not get over that I had chosen to get a flat top hair cut. We both played high school football.

My haircut bothered him so much that he unexpectedly punched me after church. He could not deal with my choice to get a flat top- he was bald from his football team's tradition of no hair during football season. He wouldn't let it go and we never had a beef before.

I later found out from this dude's sister that this reasonably calm, well mannered young man had threatened to slash his mom's throat. The family believing that he was hearing voices to harm others. They TRIED real hard to get him committed for a 72 hour observation in a reputable facility. He represented himself and explained that it was his family in need of therapy. The court denied the motion for observation. This young man went home and committed suicide within 24 hours.

I realize that UM built up the New Age perspective, but think David suffered a mental breakdown. And it's possible that a brain injury could have resulted from playing football and or hockey.

To me that behavior sounds more like roid rage or drugs, people don't act like that due to a concussion.
Interesting idea about the stock market crash, although there was no mention of David being wiped out or anything of that sort.
His behavior is certainly consistent with a breakdown, one that may or may not have started before he stopped and got out of the car. I tend to think his initial decision to stop and wander the desert was related to some new age philosophy that he was exploring and he thought some sort of spiritual journey was in order which progressed to dehydration. Not ruling out the use of peyote here either.
And of course, we don't know for a fact if he met with foul play or not.

I don't know if this has been discussed, but do you think certain cultural/historical events may have impacted his thinking and led David to suffer a mental breakdown?

He disappeared in Oct 1988. There was the famous Wall St crash- Black Monday 10/19/87 and the Oliver Stone film Wall Street from Dec 1987. Both those events may have caused him to do some serious soul searching.

I think he may have had some undiagnosed mental illness that might be explain his sudden outbursts and even violent temper that flared up at the party.

This is purely anecdotal but I knew a guy from my church who suffered a similar breakdown. This guy was 2 years older than me. I was a big freshman in high school and he was a junior at a different high school. This dude could not get over that I had chosen to get a flat top hair cut. We both played high school football.

My haircut bothered him so much that he unexpectedly punched me after church. He could not deal with my choice to get a flat top- he was bald from his football team's tradition of no hair during football season. He wouldn't let it go and we never had a beef before.

I later found out from this dude's sister that this reasonably calm, well mannered young man had threatened to slash his mom's throat. The family believing that he was hearing voices to harm others. They TRIED real hard to get him committed for a 72 hour observation in a reputable facility. He represented himself and explained that it was his family in need of therapy. The court denied the motion for observation. This young man went home and committed suicide within 24 hours.

I realize that UM built up the New Age perspective, but think David suffered a mental breakdown. And it's possible that a brain injury could have resulted from playing football and or hockey.

These are all good points. head injuries or mental health can go undiagnosed and unnoticed. This also could be as straight forward as him attempting a vision quest, which could explain some of the choices he made.

David’s dad mentioned in the segment that David was a high achiever. Someone mentioned it maybe a few posts back and also in the Keith Reinhard thread. Sometimes no matter how successful you are, it is never enough to make someone feel ok. It could be depression or spiritual emptiness. With his physical outburst, I wonder if david was bi-polar/depressed and was seeking an outlet that he no longer had after playing football. Maybe he had some type of attachment to his golf clubs or had some type of jealousy issue with the friend of his friend. It is a bit unfair to retroactively attempt to diagnose DavidÂ’s behavior, but I have no idea at this point.

The note that he left in his car is very strange. It seems like he may have wanted it to be found? What state of mind was he in when he wrote that?