I would like to know you guys' opinions on that. I've been thinking about this case a lot recently and am not 100% convinced she was murdered. For those of you who need refreshed on this case she was the petite brunette who moved to Hollywood in hopes of stardom but ended up working as an exotic dancer. She had an older boyfriend named Anton who geniunely seemed to care about her. When he last spoke with her she was excited about a possible job opportunity in the Orient and was suffering from what appeared to be a cold. Not sure how long but I believe several days later her body was found in her apartment. Neighbors came forward and claimed they had heard horrible screams coming from her apartment days before her body was found but never reported anything due to fear.

The problem I have with 100% believing she was murdered was the lack of evidence. They never mentioned any type of forced entry, the apartment apparently was not in disarray so no signs of struggle and the autopsy couldn't even determine a cause of death so it was ruled natural. The only thing that seems to indicate foul play was the neighbors statements. Can the neighbors be sure it was Crystal's apartment they heard noises coming from or was it just in that area? What they said they heard sounded like someone being tortured yet there were absolutely no signs of trauma on Crystal's body. Doesn't that seem strange? I believe she was found partially naked in the corner of her apartment with the phone off the hook. I agree that does seem strange and possibly suspicious but what if she was suffering some kind of medical emergency? I can envision a possible scenario in which she was in the middle of getting dressed and something happened to her physically and she went to the phone to try and call someone for help when she collapsed and died. Lets not forget that Crystal was sick the last time anyone saw her which I think is a key point in this case. Her boyfriend said it was a cold but it could have been something more serious and just no one (including Crystal) realized. I'm not saying I think absolutely for sure that Crystal Spencer wasn't murdered, I just have a hard time believing that some intruder (or even someone she knew) could have entered her home and assaulted her to the point of killing her and there be no signs of a struggle or foul play in the apartment and no injuries to the body. Any thoughts?

I believe she was murdered. For a person that young to evidently die on an evening when brutal screams were heard coming from an apartment, and for a person to be found dead, naked from the waist down in an odd corner of the apartment (which is how she was evidently found) --- I gotta think she was murdered. Who gets gravely ill, takes off anything they have on from the waist down, then crawls into a corner and dies?

I have never seen this case, crystal, so I can only comment on what you presented. If there is not strong evidence pointing toward murder, then I tend to lean to the side of the medical professionals over all others. If the autopsy could not reveal the cause of death, then that means one of two things: she was murdered by someone so adept at covering their tracks that they must have had extensive knowledge in poisons etc.. OR she wasn't murdered at all.

If she was murdered, then the method must have been some sort of drug or poison (often times extensive toxicology reports are not done so it is possible the medical examiner missed something like thalium). This seems very inconsistent with torture or screams. Since eyewitness testimony is often dubious, I would not put much stock into someone merely hearing bumps in the night.

I assume she was fairly young, so just collapsing and dying would be rare (even with a cold or flu). This is sorta the controversy in the Anna Nicole case. People said she had pneumonia, but dying from this at 39 is extremely rare.

My bet is that this woman probably died of some sort of drug overdose. Exotic dancers, sadly, are often involved in the drug culture. But, it is weird that drugs were not found in her body. I am sure that the ME would have checked for all the usual suspected drugs.

If you want to watch this case, Thiussat, I put it on YouTube.

Thanks dyno, but I live in the boon docks and do not have high speed internet, so me trying to download it would be futile. :(

Thanks anyway. Maybe I will watch it the next time I am at my friend's house.

I believe it was murder and i also believe the neighbors know more then what they claimed.

Petite brunettes always seem to get themselves in trouble.... :eek::eek:

In all seriousness, I do believe that Crystal was murdered. I've never thought anything differently from the first time I watched the case until now. Nothing else makes sense, at least to me.

Again, I haven't seen the segment. But I must ask, for those of you who think she was murdered, how do you get around the fact that the medical examiner could find no evidence of it? Usually when someone is murdered, they receive either a knife wound, a gunshot wound, asphyxiation, or blunt force trauma. None of these happened to her. That means if she was murdered it had to be some "internal" source like poisons. Poisons or drugs are not consistent with screams.

Thanks dyno, but I live in the boon docks and do not have high speed internet, so me trying to download it would be futile. :(

Thanks anyway. Maybe I will watch it the next time I am at my friend's house.

Thiussat, you should be able to watch the YouTube clips even on dial-up. You're not really downloading anything, just letting the video load.

You could find the segment then click on the two little bars at far left. That turns it into a right arrow and stops the video from playing. Then go away for 20 minutes or so and let the progress bar move all the way to the right. Then you press the right arrow and the video plays.

It might be less than ideal but you could set it up that way when you have something else to do, then come back and watch. My DSL was out for one day two weeks ago and I used dial-up to watch a few vids on YouTube.

Petite brunettes always seem to get themselves in trouble.... :eek::eek:

mmmm petite brunettes :drool:

I doubt she was murdered, this case is more memorable for the neighbours "Flock of Seagulls" haircuts :lol:

I doubt she was murdered, this case is more memorable for the neighbours "Flock of Seagulls" haircuts

I used to have a GF with that hair style, but after she got it, I RAN, I RAN so FAR AWAY! ;)

Well, I wouldn't run from her. The girlfriend looked pretty good to me, despite her hairstyle and my preference for brunettes. She was a former Miss America, Susan Akin who won the title in 1986, just two years before Crystal Spencer's death.

I believe it was foul play. If you look at the lengthy articles posted elsewhere on this site by Justin, they do indicate the apartment was disheveled and the phone cord was wrapped around Crystal's body. The term muffled is one thing that leads me to believe someone else was there.

Here's a section from one of those articles:

"A floor down, Jet Taylor was awakened by his soon-to-be wife--Susan Akin, a former Miss America--who heard the noises at 2 a.m. or 3 a.m. Together, they listened to "moaning . . . but high-pitched . . . a muffled shrieking," Taylor said in an interview. "At first, I thought it was a sexual thing going on, an 'S & M' (sadomasochism) thing."

That impression quickly changed. Akin, then 23, a newcomer to Los Angeles pursuing her own screen ambitions, said they listened nearly an hour. The cries were "very rhythmic . . . at intervals--boom, boom, boom," Akin remembered. "All I could think about was somebody taking a cigarette butt to somebody and burning them. My gut reaction was that someone was being tortured."

They debated whether to pick up the phone. "We were always told: 'In California, you just don't get involved in domestic disputes,' " said Akin, a native of a small Mississippi town, who imagined that a boyfriend was involved. The decision not to summon police or an ambulance has always haunted her, she added. "I get so mad at myself--and so upset."

Here's more from a different article. Notice the very end, with investigators contacting Taylor and apparently trying to get him to agree to their version of an innocent death by sickness, so they can close the books and not have to annoy themselves with actual investigation:

"Jet Taylor, an engineer who lived downstairs from Spencer, said he heard ''incredibly scary" screams coming from Spencer's apartment on Saturday, May 6.

"It was some screaming, and hollering and gagging and choking," Taylor, who now lives in Mississippi, said. "You know how you can associate sounds with something you've heard before? These are sounds I've never heard. They were from her."

Taylor said that he got up from bed at about 2 a.m. and moved toward the part of the apartment nearest Spencer's.

"I put my ear up to the wall," he said. "That was one week prior to them finding the body. The next day, I went to the landlord and said they should check it out."

The building owners could not be reached for comment.

He said he told police when they came for the body that he thought she was murdered, but that they took no statement.

Taylor said he received a call from the Burbank police several months ago. "They called me and suggested it was not a murder. They said, 'Don't you believe she was just sick?' All of their questions were geared to that she was a junkie and that she overdosed."

**

While it's true no sign of foul play was evident during the autopsy, that autopsy also uncovered only slight traces of alcohol and marijuana. I didn't see any mention of other drugs. The apartment was described as hot, so perhaps she didn't have her air conditioning on. I remember May as being hot on occasion in Los Angeles.

Here's a bit more from an article, describing the scene when the body was found:

"The body was discovered about a week later--on Friday, the 13th--after neighbors complained of odors. The deteriorated figure was lying prone on the floor near the couch, dressed only in a red shirt. A police officer at the scene reported suspicion of homicide and "probable sexual assault." Coroner's investigator Debrah Kitchings noticed unusual disarray. Belongings scattered throughout the apartment suggested ransacking--or, possibly, a very disorganized lifestyle.

The body, Kitchings said, was entangled in Spencer's telephone cord, perhaps a sign of physical struggle. Or maybe Spencer had failed in an attempt to summon help, to call for an ambulance. With the body so decayed, not even Spencer's race was certain."

Thanks for re-posting those, Awsi Dooger. I just can't imagine someone who was dying of natural causes would end up dressed as she was, where she was. The phone cord is also very suggestive. I also don't think that couple would make the story about the screams up.

Interestingly, the one person I find a little suspiscious in all of this is the boyfriend himself. Anton and Crystal had known each other for a year when she died, and it was eight months after he had found out she was a stripper. He speaks of how much the two cared for each other, they had evidently come through one emotionally traumatic moment together --- when he, the respected Ph.D. candidate, discovered she was a dancer, but said it was OK --- he, in short, descrbes a relationship that I would have described as being at a fairly advanced state at the time of this girl's death.

And yet, according to what he tells us, he spoke with her the evening of her death (apparently she called him), and then he didn't call her again, and obviously didn't hear from her again, for a solid week. He only found out about her death because the police called him.

There are a few possible explanations for this. Perhaps they were not as close as he described because he was not as comfortable with her profession as he pretended; perhaps it she who wasn't really as in to him as she would have let on (maybe she just liked being taken to things and out on dates, but ultimately didn't find him that attractive --- I could totally believe this, by the way).

Or, perhaps, he was the one who killed her after all; what better cover than to insist, after the cops determined it was not murder, that it in fact was? No one will suspect him if the official finding is ever overturned.

I realize that this isn't by any means a very likely explanation, but something about that week gap of time that receives basically no comment in the UM story troubles me.

I used to have a GF with that hair style, but after she got it, I RAN, I RAN so FAR AWAY! ;)

:rofl:

Well actually after reading that article Awsi posted it does sound more like possible foul play than the UM segment mentioned. Her apartment possibly being ransacked, possible sexual assault. I didn't realize how badly decomposed her body was. I wonder if any signs of violence would not be visible because of that.

Accurate autopsies are done on people who have been dead for decades, so I am not sure the decomposition matters that much. I am no medical examiner, but even with a somewhat decayed body they can detect gunshots, stab wounds and suffocation. Perhaps blunt force trauma might be a little tougher to determine, but I still think they would find structural damage or brain damage caused by blows to the head. Obviously they didn't. Anyone ever seen a real autopsy done? I have never had the "privilege" of seeing one done live, but I did see one on HBO done by Dr. Michael Baden. They cut the brain out of the skull and look it over. Then, they chop the brain in half with a butcher knife and examine it internally. They also take out each organ and look it over. I think if there had been trauma to her body they would have seen clear indications.

I ask again, since there were no sign of gunshots, stab wounds, suffocation, or blunt trauma, can anyone tell me how they think someone killed her? There is the possiblity of drugs or poisons, but that method of murder doesn't jive with screams and lound bumps.

Perhaps she was unlucky as was examined by an incompetent medical examiner? It's possible I suppose, but if there were suspicious circumstances to her death, I think the family should have had a second opinion.

I am no medical examiner....

That's right, you're not. I'm not either, but I don't think that because I took a forensic anthropology class in college, I could possibly know what a medical examiner could or could not tell from Crystal's partially decomposed body.

The fact that the medical examiner ruled manner of death as "natural causes" when they could not actually determine the cause, and basically ignored the circumstances of her death, is what sounds suspicious to me. There have been cases where they knew that the victim was murdered because of the circumstances surrounding the death, and yet still could not determine a cause of death because of the decomposition of the body (see, for example, the murder of Kristi Johnson in L.A.). How "accurate" an autopsy can be after decades should be judged on a case by case basis. It has only been in recent years that pathologists and forensic anthropologist have done actual extensive experimental research on body composition (i.e., Forensic Anthropology Research Center at the University of Tennessee).

Also, blunt force trauma would probably be among the easiest to determine because there would be damage to the skeleton or ruptured organs.

Again, I haven't seen the segment. But I must ask, for those of you who think she was murdered, how do you get around the fact that the medical examiner could find no evidence of it? Usually when someone is murdered, they receive either a knife wound, a gunshot wound, asphyxiation, or blunt force trauma. None of these happened to her. That means if she was murdered it had to be some "internal" source like poisons. Poisons or drugs are not consistent with screams.

According to the autopsy, Crystal Spencer grew about 7 inches, and gained over 30 pounds from when she was last seen. I'm not putting too much faith in that autopsy report.

According to the autopsy, Crystal Spencer grew about 7 inches, and gained over 30 pounds from when she was last seen. I'm not putting too much faith in that autopsy report.


Oh that's right! I totally forgot about that!

Yea, I've always felt that she was murdered, and most likely by someone that is associated with law enforcement. That is the only thing that could explain the completely inaccurate autopsy report, and the police trying to force the idea of her being an addict or just being sick...

Thiussat, It is a realistic scenario that Crystal could have screamed bloody murder upon being poisoned. If an intruder was in her home, that alone would explain the screams.

I too believe Crystal was murdered. There wouldn't be any reason for her to scream if she was about to commit suicide. Typically, people that commit suicide seem happier than usual, as they tell themselves that they will not have to endure the stresses of their lives much longer.

The probable murderer appears to be very good at covering his tracks. That would explain the lack of an obvious cause of death and possible signs of a struggle. Kind of reminds me of the Kurt Sova case in that sense.

I am a bit puzzled by the lack of signs of a forced entry. That would lead me to believe it was someone she knew. Or it was the landlord. I wonder if anyone has checked into the landlord, as he/she would probably a way to get into her apartment.

In the Tara Breckinridge segment, it mentions that the security guard for the gentleman's club assisted each of the ladies to their vehicles. It's possible that Crystal had an admirer, I guess you could call it, that did her in. She must have been a prime target for someone as she was a female living alone in L.A. and was what many would consider attractive.

I totally missed the Flock of Seagulls haircuts on the neighbors. I tend to miss things like that. I'll have to rewatch it and check that out. I guess I was too distracted by my thinking they were morons for not calling the police.

The fact that the medical examiner ruled manner of death as "natural causes" when they could not actually determine the cause, and basically ignored the circumstances of her death, is what sounds suspicious to me.

Is this in the segment? If not, then what makes you think the ME "could not determine the manner of her death?" And if he/she couldn't, what motive would they have for covering it up? This sounds like a conspiracy theory without any proof to me.

There have been cases where they knew that the victim was murdered because of the circumstances surrounding the death, and yet still could not determine a cause of death because of the decomposition of the body (see, for example, the murder of Kristi Johnson in L.A.).

Depends on the level of decomposition. Crystal was dead for about a week, correct? I know her face was unrecognizable and her skin was darkened, but I doubt her body was too decomposed for a cause of death to be determined.

How "accurate" an autopsy can be after decades should be judged on a case by case basis. It has only been in recent years that pathologists and forensic anthropologist have done actual extensive experimental research on body composition (i.e., Forensic Anthropology Research Center at the University of Tennessee).

I am not sure about this. I think forensic scientists have known about how decomposed a body can be for determining cause of death for quite a while before the "body farm" at UT was ever opened.

Also, blunt force trauma would probably be among the easiest to determine because there would be damage to the skeleton or ruptured organs.

Exactly, and there was no sign of it. What I meant with it being difficult was that her skin may have been in a such state that obvious bruises would not be detected. Internally, however, you're right, it would be easy. Also, I think if she was shot or stabbed that would be quite easy to see (hell, I could see that). This would leave asphyxiation, which should be detectable too.

Basically what we are left with are three options:

A) The autopsy report was done by the most incompetent pathologist in America.

B) The pathologist was not incompetent but was rather involved in a police cover-up (no one has yet to put forth a plausible theory as to why)

C) The pathologist was right and she was killed by natural causes.

Is this in the segment? If not, then what makes you think the ME "could not determine the manner of her death?" And if he/she couldn't, what motive would they have for covering it up? This sounds like a conspiracy theory without any proof to me.
If they had determined the cause of death, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. With all due respect, you are talking out of your a**. Please take the time to watch the segment, and/or back up your statements with some kind of proof/references rather than arguing just for the sake of arguing.

B) The pathologist was not incompetent but was rather involved in a police cover-up (no one has yet to put forth a plausible theory as to why)

She was a stripper, there's the possibility that the medical examiner or a police officer saw her dancing a lot. He developed a thing for her, he went to see if he could start something with her, after she shot him down he snapped and killed her. And it was proceeded to be covered up.

People have killed for less. It's completely possible that this was the case. I think that she was murdered, it may not have been a cop that did it. But I do think that she was killed and at the very least the medical examiner screwed up massively.

this case is more memorable for the neighbours "Flock of Seagulls" haircuts :lol:

I don't know why, but when I rewatched the segment yesterday, I thought the guy looked like the lead singer from Air Supply, and the girl looked like the xlyphonohist from the Thompson Twins. Or maybe I'm just crazy.

It's really difficult to determine what happened here. The sounds that different people in the apartment complex heard were described as sounds they had never heard before. And, as mentioned before, the cause of death was undetermined.

That one guy that passed off the discrpancies in Crystal's height and weight with the autopsy report as a minor error due to the heavy workload of the examiners really irritated me. I get the impression he knows more than he's saying.

If they had determined the cause of death, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. With all due respect, you are talking out of your a**. Please take the time to watch the segment, and/or back up your statements with some kind of proof/references rather than arguing just for the sake of arguing.

My, my, snappy aren't we? ;)

The cause of death is not the issue, if we are to believe the ME. He/she ruled it as "natural causes." Natural causes does not equate to "maybe a murder, but I'm not sure."

Again, you are left with two options: an incompetent ME or a massive cover-up by the police. The second option seems absurd. Perhaps the first option is the right one, but I can't see why a second autopsy was not done if there was this much doubt in the case.

A couple of things:

In reading those articles Justin posted in the other thread a couple of nights ago, I think the boyfriend did say he tried to call several times after last seeing Crystal, but never got through. It might have been a busy signal. At least one of the articles said Crystal had a tendency to keep her phone off the hook.

Also, FWIW it looks like Susan Akin and Jet Taylor are no longer married, although I don't know the specifics. One blurb said she has became a wife and mother, and "over the next 17 years, Ms. Akin's experiences have led her down a path of joy and grief, hope and despair, challenge and fear, excitement and disappointment." All the recent references call her Susan Akins, not Susan Akins-Taylor. She is a professional speaker.

http://www.c4pd.com/keynote_akin.htm

Natural causes does not equate to "maybe a murder, but I'm not sure."


When did I ever say or imply this? You're either misunderstanding my arguement, or you're willfully mischaracterizing it.

With respect to the medical examiner's ruling, the UM segment said it was "undetermined," if I remember correctly. Does that ruling rule anything out? I assume she was not shot, because a bullet likely would have been found, but I'm not sure what else can be definitively ruled out by "undetermined" causes.

Moreover, the fact that the body was described wildly innacurately in the autopsy report leads me to question if it was Crystal Spencer's body that that particular autopsy report refers to at all. I know they say her remains were independently identified by two different finger print labs, but all that proves in my mind is that the Los Angeles coroner indeed had Crystal Spencer's body in their possession. It does not prove that the body that was autopsied under the name of Crystal Spencer was in fact her. Stranger things have happened then one corpse being mistaken for another in a coroner's office as large and as busy as the one in Los Angeles. All that would have to happen would be for two sets of finger print IDs to be accidentally switched --- one that goes with Crystal Spencer was given to another body (the one autopsied under her name), and the one belonging to someone esle stuck with Crystal Spencer. In other words, I'm not entirely sure how much credence can be lent to the autopsy report at all --- we cannot even be 100% sure if the report that was made corresponds to the body of Crystal Spencer!

The strongest evidence for murder is the "earwitness" testimony of the couple who both say they heard terrible, blood-curdling shrieks coming from the direction of Crystal's apartment the night she died. They could, of course, be lying, but they don't seem to have much of a motive to be doing so --- and the woman seemed pretty genuine in the segment when she said she would regret not calling the police for the rest of her life. Assuming they were telling the truth, I think it's too much of a coincidence that such screams would be heard one night and one night only and that a woman would have died in that apartment complex on the same night.

The second piece of evidence I find quite compelling is the position and state of undress of the body. I asked this before, but I will ask it again: why would this woman get half undressed, end up on the floor, and die --- of "natural causes" --- at this spot? I can think of some things that might have happened to her that would have resulted in the body being found as it was --- a sudden heart attack, a stroke --- but I doubt they would have been accompanied by the kind of loud, consistent screaming heard that night. The only way I can see to put the two together is some kind of torture/murder scenario.

One possibility does remain here: perhaps someone followed her home or she invited someone up for a one-nighter, and that person played rougher than she was anticipating. This would explain the screams. Perhaps what the person was doing to her was upsetting enough, and her reaction violent enough, that cardiac arrest was induced in her. So, this person did not kill her intentionally (or perhaps had the intent to kill her, but she died before that could happen), and he just took off before anyone found out he was there, for fear of being charged with a crime, even though he hadn't actually done anything to kill her per se.

It's unfortunate that her body was cremated; perhaps another autopsy could have been more enlightening about 1)whether the body ultimately tagged as Crystal Spencer was, in fact, hers, and 2)what her cause of death actually was.

One possibility does remain here: perhaps someone followed her home or she invited someone up for a one-nighter, and that person played rougher than she was anticipating. This would explain the screams. Perhaps what the person was doing to her was upsetting enough, and her reaction violent enough, that cardiac arrest was induced in her. So, this person did not kill her intentionally (or perhaps had the intent to kill her, but she died before that could happen), and he just took off before anyone found out he was there, for fear of being charged with a crime, even though he hadn't actually done anything to kill her per se.

It's unfortunate that her body was cremated; perhaps another autopsy could have been more enlightening about 1)whether the body ultimately tagged as Crystal Spencer was, in fact, hers, and 2)what her cause of death actually was.

This is the most logical and plausible argument I have seen by the adherents of the theory that Crystal was murdered. Being a stripper, it is possible that she had some sort of "affair" with a "client" that ended up in an accidental death due to S&M practice. This type of thing is not unheard of. It is possible she was hooking on the side for extra cash (some strippers do this).

Now, as to how I would explain her bodily position, I would say that it is possible that she was in a panic due to a medical emergency (who knows what) and was also hyperthermic, so she began taking off clothes. Often times, certain drugs can make you feel extremely warm. Her being partially unclothed would not necessarily have to mean that someone was there with her. Hell, I run around my house partially unclothed when I am alone.

This is the most logical and plausible argument I have seen by the adherents of the theory that Crystal was murdered. Being a stripper, it is possible that she had some sort of "affair" with a "client" that ended up in an accidental death due to S&M practice. This type of thing is not unheard of. It is possible she was hooking on the side for extra cash (some strippers do this).

Now, as to how I would explain her bodily position, I would say that it is possible that she was in a panic due to a medical emergency (who knows what) and was also hyperthermic, so she began taking off clothes. Often times, certain drugs can make you feel extremely warm. Her being partially unclothed would not necessarily have to mean that someone was there with her. Hell, I run around my house partially unclothed when I am alone.

No, the nudity itself proves nothing in particular, I agree, but it's the combination of circumstances: the half naked body, the choking followed by screaming that lasted for several minutes, and the position of the body that are all suggestive in my mind of a death brought on by something other than "natural causes." A drug overdose is a possibility, particularly if one throws out the ME report as likely an autopsy of another person; if that autopsy is indeed of Crystal Spencer, no drugs were found, so a drug overdoes becomes profoundly less likely (there could have been something in her system for which they didn't test, which doesn't do anything more to increase my faith in this particular autopsy).

However, I don't know that even an accidental overdose would have led to the kind of screaming described by the two witnesses, who are very credible in my opinion. When I think of an overdose, I think of someone who becomes quickly incapacitated --- not someone with the kind of energy required to produce the kind of screams described by the witnesses for the length of time they were apparently going on. I still think someone else was with her, doing things to her that she did not want done; I think an intentional murder is likely in that scenario, though, as I suggested, it is also quite conceivable that she was literally "scared to death." Perhaps prior drug abuse had weakened her heart?

Interesting theory, nonetheless! Thanks for posting that!

I haven't posted in awhile so I'll throw in my 2 cents.I just watched this segment yesterday and after reading a lot of the replies and possible scenarios regarding this particular case I decided to go another way with it.Now with the risk of being laughed at just work with me here for a moment.This a stretch but do you think that just MAYBE she was literally scared to death by something she had seen in her apartment? Dunno but maybe she was coming out of the shower and SOMEHOW something crawled into her apartment? Maybe a rat/snake? This could explain the screams. Maybe she didn't try to exit because it was right in front of the doorway? Could it be something as simple as this? I know...far fetched but who knows since there is a substantial lack of evidence in this case.

I'm not sure what to make of this case. There have been a lot of good ideas posted here as to what might have happened to Crystal. When I initially saw the segment, I had a hard time believing that she was murdered because of the lack of evidence. I thought perhaps since she was ill that she had taken some medication and possibly suffered an allergic reaction or maybe mixed the medication with drugs or alcohol, thus leading to her death. But now I'm not so sure. It still doesn't explain the screaming that the neighbors heard, but it's possible she was screaming because she needed medical assistance and was unable to obtain it on her own as she had been incapacitated by the medicine/drugs/alcohol. As for her being found half-naked, well even when I'm alone I don't walk around my apartment like that. That does suggest that perhaps someone else was there and that they had some sort of sexual encounter.

The discrepancies in the autopsy and the information that came out later about the phone cord being wrapped around her body and the state of disarray in the apartment seem to point to foul play. I wonder if her boyfriend was ever questioned? It does seem unusual to me that he didn't try to contact her for that entire week. If they were as close as he said they were, wouldn't he have become worried?

The more I look at all the evidence that's been presented here on the board, the more this looks like foul play to me. I hope that the authorities eventually find out what really happened.

Yeah, boyfriend, kinda odd. Their relationship seemed to be progressing, and he didn't touch base with her all week? Maybe that's the "mature" man way to do things, but me and my husband when we were courting, couldn't go more than two days without talking. And as smitten as Crystal seemed with him it doesn't make sense.

Thiussat, It is a realistic scenario that Crystal could have screamed bloody murder upon being poisoned. If an intruder was in her home, that alone would explain the screams.

I too believe Crystal was murdered. There wouldn't be any reason for her to scream if she was about to commit suicide. Typically, people that commit suicide seem happier than usual, as they tell themselves that they will not have to endure the stresses of their lives much longer.

The probable murderer appears to be very good at covering his tracks. That would explain the lack of an obvious cause of death and possible signs of a struggle. Kind of reminds me of the Kurt Sova case in that sense.

I am a bit puzzled by the lack of signs of a forced entry. That would lead me to believe it was someone she knew. Or it was the landlord. I wonder if anyone has checked into the landlord, as he/she would probably a way to get into her apartment.

In the Tara Breckinridge segment, it mentions that the security guard for the gentleman's club assisted each of the ladies to their vehicles. It's possible that Crystal had an admirer, I guess you could call it, that did her in. She must have been a prime target for someone as she was a female living alone in L.A. and was what many would consider attractive.

I totally missed the Flock of Seagulls haircuts on the neighbors. I tend to miss things like that. I'll have to rewatch it and check that out. I guess I was too distracted by my thinking they were morons for not calling the police.

In all fairness to the neighbours, what they did is what most of us would have done in that situation. There has been much psychological research into bystander intervention in emergency situations which indicates that.

In all fairness to the neighbours, what they did is what most of us would have done in that situation. There has been much psychological research into bystander intervention in emergency situations which indicates that.

Indicate what? The didn't have to run over, knock down the door and save her! All they had to do was call the police or 911!

I totally agree with you, kamy.

The neighbors would have had to have been behind at least one locked door, possibly more. plus, they would have had 911 on the phone.

But no, what is really troubling, is that they NEVER called the police. Not even after the believed intruder would have been long gone. Crystal was discovered days later. They could have easily called the police without fear of being attacked themselves, but they did nothing.

Plus, you think they would have looked out their peephole, to see if they could see someone. (knowing that they can see out, but nobody can see in). But they didn't do even that.

i never gave this case much though, but watching it recently. The boyfriend seems quite odd, maybe thats just how he is. He does seem like the type who could think up a cover up by claiming she was murdered after they say it was natural(if he was the murderer). He has a pHd, so it could be a way of him saying he is smarter than the authorities. I also always thought she was attractive, that is UNTIL I realized who I thought was attractive was the actress playing her. When I watched it closely and saw her actual pictures, she reminded me of a stripper/hooker type, no offense. L.A. is a dangerous place, when I visited there I was scared at times with my friend, and we're dudes. I can only imagine how dangerous it is for a single female. Also, I CAN believe that the neighbors would hear that and not say anything. LA is the type of town where everyone is there for themselves, not much thought it given to other people usually. They all want their OWN careers, their OWN opportunities, Fame for themselves. If this was somewhere like maybe the midwest, people may have called 911. I have heard of 911 being called on instances much much less than this by neighbors in the midwest. Anyway, its a sad story and I don't know why the family would decide to cremate her if the cause of death was still undetermined??? what??? who would honestly do that. Unless the boyfriend had a large say to the family, maybe saying she always wanted to be cremated bla bla. The boyfriend is a weird dude.

It takes so little effort to call 911, that I can't fathom anyone not doing it, especially when a life is involved. Yeah I agree, someone ignoring the situation is more plausible in L.A. than the midwest, but what if it were happening to them? I can't believe the neighbor guy had the chutzpah to show himself on camera.

It takes so little effort to call 911, that I can't fathom anyone not doing it, especially when a life is involved. Yeah I agree, someone ignoring the situation is more plausible in L.A. than the midwest, but what if it were happening to them? I can't believe the neighbor guy had the chutzpah to show himself on camera.
C'mon with hair like that.........and those pants....how could he not want to show himself?
:lol: :lol: :happyface

Its funny how they said they 'Didn't want to get involved' yet they had no problems appearing on a nationally broadcast show, Unsolved Mysteries, under no disguise and using their real names (although "Jet" has to be the dumbest real name I've ever heard) after the fact. The guy who said in "La La Land" everyone is out for themselves and the advancement of THEIR OWN careers and lives was right.

Here's a section from one of those articles:

"A floor down, Jet Taylor was awakened by his soon-to-be wife--Susan Akin, a former Miss America--who heard the noises at 2 a.m. or 3 a.m. Together, they listened to "moaning . . . but high-pitched . . . a muffled shrieking," Taylor said in an interview. "At first, I thought it was a sexual thing going on, an 'S & M' (sadomasochism) thing."

That impression quickly changed. Akin, then 23, a newcomer to Los Angeles pursuing her own screen ambitions, said they listened nearly an hour. The cries were "very rhythmic . . . at intervals--boom, boom, boom," Akin remembered. "All I could think about was somebody taking a cigarette butt to somebody and burning them. My gut reaction was that someone was being tortured."


Here's more from a different article. Notice the very end, with investigators contacting Taylor and apparently trying to get him to agree to their version of an innocent death by sickness, so they can close the books and not have to annoy themselves with actual investigation:

"Jet Taylor, an engineer who lived downstairs from Spencer, said he heard ''incredibly scary" screams coming from Spencer's apartment on Saturday, May 6.

"It was some screaming, and hollering and gagging and choking," Taylor, who now lives in Mississippi, said. "You know how you can associate sounds with something you've heard before? These are sounds I've never heard. They were from her."



Here's a bit more from an article, describing the scene when the body was found:

"The body was discovered about a week later--on Friday, the 13th--after neighbors complained of odors. The deteriorated figure was lying prone on the floor near the couch, dressed only in a red shirt. A police officer at the scene reported suspicion of homicide and "probable sexual assault." Coroner's investigator Debrah Kitchings noticed unusual disarray. Belongings scattered throughout the apartment suggested ransacking--or, possibly, a very disorganized lifestyle.

The body, Kitchings said, was entangled in Spencer's telephone cord, perhaps a sign of physical struggle. Or maybe Spencer had failed in an attempt to summon help, to call for an ambulance. With the body so decayed, not even Spencer's race was certain."


Okay... I know that I said in an earlier post on this thread that I thought Crystal Spencer was murdered. While I still think that, I thought I'd throw out another possible theory.

Given the clues that the sounds from Crystal's apartment continued for something like an hour... in rhythmic intervals... and that she was found partially clothed with the telephone cord wrapped around her... have we discussed the possibility that she may have been ACCIDENTALLY killed during some sexual asphyxia action?

Given the clues that the sounds from Crystal's apartment continued for something like an hour... in rhythmic intervals... and that she was found partially clothed with the telephone cord wrapped around her... have we discussed the possibility that she may have been ACCIDENTALLY killed during some sexual asphyxia action?

:lol: as funny as that is, you could very well be onto something.

Contemporary news reports make it clear that the Los Angeles County Coroner's office listed Crystal Spencer's cause of death as "undetermined," not "natural causes." The confusion is probably the result of the ignorance of her boyfriend, Anton Kline, who went on several national television shows using both terms interchangably, which they most certainly are not.

It's not altogether unlikely that, pending further evidence, the pathologist who examined Crystal could not find a definitive cause of death. This can happen when the body is severely decomposed and there are no obvious signs of trauma. No forensic pathologist worth his or her salt is going to call something a murder that could have been an accident, and vice versa. Better to err on the side of caution than wind up blowing somebody's case or losing your credibility.

If she was murdered it was likely by strangulation or suffocation, which can be hard to detect even in intact corpses. After a week enough decomposition has taken place to obscure the more overt indications of manual or ligature strangulation. Suffocation is even harder to detect even in optimal circumstances. As Dr. Baden (who I'm pretty sure doesn't use a butcher knife to slice up brains, though forensic pathologists do shop at restaurant supply stores for other tools) says, when death by one of these methods is suspected, a very thorough examination of the neck structures is necessary.

Even then it may not be obvious to all but the most experienced pathologists. Contrary to popular belief, the hyoid bone does not always break in strangulation cases, particularly in individuals Crystal's age. Combine this with the body's advanced state of decay, and it's understandable why the coroner's office ruled the way it did.

Some sort of erotic asphyxiation doesn't sound out of the question, given the witness testimony and, sadly, Crystal's line of work. Perhaps things got out of hand and when she stopped breathing, the other person panicked and tried to stage the scene to look like something else. News reports say she was "entangled" in the telephone cord, the phone itself off the hook.

One curious side note: There may have been another reason Susan Akin didn't initially report what she heard to police. Apparently violence isn't unknown to her -- her dad was sent to jail for beating his second wife not long after she became Miss America, despite Akin's pleas for lenience. Oh, and this was decades after he and her grandfather were arrested in connection with the infamous "Mississippi Burning" murders of three civil rights workers in 1964. Her father was acquitted and her grandfather never charged, but it kind of makes you wonder if it was really the whole "LA" thing that prevented her from calling 911.

One curious side note: There may have been another reason Susan Akin didn't initially report what she heard to police. Apparently violence isn't unknown to her -- her dad was sent to jail for beating his second wife not long after she became Miss America, despite Akin's pleas for lenience. Oh, and this was decades after he and her grandfather were arrested in connection with the infamous "Mississippi Burning" murders of three civil rights workers in 1964. Her father was acquitted and her grandfather never charged, but it kind of makes you wonder if it was really the whole "LA" thing that prevented her from calling 911.

Interesting theory Rapunzel. Like someone else said, they were afraid to get involved but yet happy to be interviewed on camera in the UM segment. I don't see how they would have to "get involved" though. They could have called 911 and not given their name and ask that an officer check out the apartment building Crystal lived in. Then they would have done all that was expected of them.

Maybe the boyfriend came across as strange to some of you, but he didn't really to me. He seemed soft spoken. I certainly don't think he had anything to do with the crime as he seemed to be the one trying to get a thorough investigation started into her death.

Maybe the boyfriend came across as strange to some of you, but he didn't really to me. He seemed soft spoken. I certainly don't think he had anything to do with the crime as he seemed to be the one trying to get a thorough investigation started into her death.

See, I had originally thought the same about the boyfriend, but upon re-watching the segment a few months ago, I found it extremely odd that having been together for as long as they had, he would not call or see Crystal for a week (or was it longer), especially knowing she had been sick. Plus the fact that someone had previously mentioned he used "natural causes" and "undetermined" as causes of death interchangeably (and he has a phD, right?) also strange.

There is a great possibility that either a client who had his advances rejected

That's what I lean to. I wouldn't be surprised if it was someone in law enforcement either. That could explain the massive errors in the autopsy report.

I personally think that it was law enforcement just because what Crystal was doing was typically pretty sleazy and corrupt. Plus there were just so many discrepancies in the detective work in this case and autopsy it's scary. A client who's advances had been rejected is also a possibility...but the murderer could actually fall into both of those categories, no??

I wonder what would the motive be for her boyfriend to kill her?

But as far as a motive for the boyfriend - jealousy. If I recall correctly, Crystal had taken a long time to tell him about her stripping/dancing, and I think it's very possible that the boyfriend could have outwardly seemed to be okay with it, but be really jealous about it. However, I think the first scenario mentioned is more likely than the boyfriend killing her, BUT...I just find his behavior suspicious. It may just be as simple as him just knowing more than he lets on, I don't know.

I always thought Anton (boyfriend) seemed legit. He seemed sincere in his UM interview and really hurt that she was gone. Not exactly the jealous reaction. I'm sure he wasn't thrilled with her line of work, but he seemed to accept it.

I just watched this segment again recently on one of crystaldawn's volumes. I still can't get over how the body dimensions were all messed up. I'm not saying the body was wrong, but maybe sloppy police work is in play.

And how did the neighbors not call the cops??? "Honey... a woman is screaming bloody murder! Oh, let's not get involved." Nice.:rolleyes:

My gut reaction is that Anton is not involved. I know it's been said that it was suspicious that he didn't call her for a week, but wasn't she supposed to be in Japan? I'm guessing that's why he didn't call her, she wasn't supposed to be still in the apartment.

I think she was murdered and the boyfriend was NOT involved. One thing I always thought was weird about this case is crystal's friend. She seems like she is high or something when they interview her (the cadence in her voice is strange and her appearance is a little disheveled

I think she was murdered and the boyfriend was NOT involved. One thing I always thought was weird about this case is crystal's friend. She seems like she is high or something when they interview her (the cadence in her voice is strange and her appearance is a little disheveled


YES!!!

The friend interviewed was so precious and special! No existing English word can succinctly describe the sheer overwhelming perfectionism that IS that woman. Alas, I am forced to make one up: SPRECIOUS (Spreh-shiss)!! I especially loved the way she'd follow up one of her vacant stares with a confused look, and then follow that up with a perplexed and bewildered expression. It didn't not make her seem un-smart. I'd bet even money that between each take she played with a ball of yarn and a scratching post. I wonder if Awsi would take that bet.


I've studed that segment and have come to the conclusion that the friend:

A) Had smoked an 1/8 of high quality greens all by herself immediately before the interview
B) Followed the weed with Thorazine
C) Was confused and hypnotically transfixed by the shiny metal rings on the cameraman's fingers
D) Had been kicked in the head by a horse (or horseS)
E) Listens to and supports Ann Coulter

:lol: :lol: LMAO Corky!!!!

My thoughts:

Most likely an elaborate cover-up. Enforcement or a client involved. Murderer knew her from the strip club. Probably a kinky sex act gone horribly wrong or intense sexual pain to a point of suffocation, paralyzation, or even possible electrocution with the phone cord.

The body decomposed very quickly because of intense heat in the apartment. Maggots ate away at the remains. May have been there longer than Anton claimed or hypothesized. Don't think Anton had any role in the crime. He may have had a much more limited presence in Crystal's life than the segment portrayed, considering he had no role in revealing possible suspects for a homicidal scenario involving intimate activity.

I am a bit puzzled by the lack of signs of a forced entry. That would lead me to believe it was someone she knew. Or it was the landlord. I wonder if anyone has checked into the landlord, as he/she would probably a way to get into her apartment.

No kidding. Why on earth would the neighboring couple make up a story of hearing screams, and the landlord not check it out? Perhaps because he was *waiting* for any evidence he may have left to deteriorate?

I'm sure I read a story somewhere of a landlord getting away with a murder he claimed was self-defense or something--kind of laughed over it in front of the victim's family. He and the victim were both young, and a knife was involved.

Did the family have Crystal cremated sight unseen, without being positively identified by someone who knew her?

This case has interested me from the beginning.

1. As suspicious as the the autopsy screw up was, i don't think it necessarily means there was a cover up of sorts. Medical Examiners offices have been known to make bizzare and confusing screw ups such as this one. Might just be an accident done by an overworked coroner.

2. I wouldn't dispell the possibility that it might be natural causes. Exhaustion, bad interaction with medicine. Did they know if she was taking any prescription drugs.

3. I would be shocked if the Boyfriend was involved. But it is still a possibility.

4. I wonder if the reason that the neighbors never didn't do anything was that they were involved in criminal activities themselves and didn't want police to be uncover their activities. Maybe the couple was doing coke at the time?

5. Maybe screams such as the one they heard was not an uncommon occurence in Crystal's house. S & M, perhaps? Maybe Crystal died during a strangulation fetish?

4. I wonder if the reason that the neighbors never didn't do anything was that they were involved in criminal activities themselves and didn't want police to be uncover their activities. Maybe the couple was doing coke at the time?

5. Maybe screams such as the one they heard was not an uncommon occurence in Crystal's house. S & M, perhaps? Maybe Crystal died during a strangulation fetish?

Either things are different in California than any normal place on the planet (for which a good case could probably be made) or those neighbors were up to something. According to them, the screams were NOT a normal occurrence--they said it was a sound they'd never heard before or since.

5. Maybe screams such as the one they heard was not an uncommon occurence in Crystal's house. S & M, perhaps? Maybe Crystal died during a strangulation fetish?

Screams of the type described by the two witnesses cannot be produced by someone being strangled.

Well, she could have screamed BEFORE she was strangled to death. If in fact that was even the cause of death. Wasnt the body so badly decomposed that they couldnt come up with an exact cause of death? The LA County Medical Examiner's office which is probably the busiest in the country botched this case so badly the exact truth will never be known.

I do think it's an odd reaction though for the neighbor to hear screaming and have the first thought in his head be 'I dont want to get involved'. Human nature would dictate the opposite reaction that you would want to know why the person was screaming and you would want to help.

I think the assumption is that the screams were "pre-attack". Meaning she was screaming at what was about to happen to her.

Autopsy bungles aside, i think the coroners would have noticed stab wounds, bullet holes or bludgeon marks. The types of attacks that would prompt screams during the attack.

The reason strangulation comes to mind is that it would be something that in decomposition would be difficult to notice via a cursory examination.

Not to sound dirty here, but screams could be sexual in nature as well.

Some people are that loud. :D

This "trip" she was taking overseas. Has that been looked into? What was it a photo shoot?

Any possibility that Crystal was a prostitute on the side as well?

..if the neightbour telling the truth. Why did'nt any other neightbour hear those terrible screams ?
I think it's murder if the screams came at the same time as Crystal Spencer died. If this is correct I would say it's 80 % probability she was murdered. But I guess it's almost impossible to exactly measure time of death cause the body was found a week later. But if the screams did'nt come at the same time as Crystal Spencer death the probability for her being killed is 10%.
Was the door locked or was it unlocked ? I mean if the door was unlocked there would not be a forced entry.Did the person who found her have to unlock the door before he/her went inside or was the door open ? I often forget to lock my door....

YES!!!

The friend interviewed was so precious and special! No existing English word can succinctly describe the sheer overwhelming perfectionism that IS that woman. Alas, I am forced to make one up: SPRECIOUS (Spreh-shiss)!! I especially loved the way she'd follow up one of her vacant stares with a confused look, and then follow that up with a perplexed and bewildered expression. It didn't not make her seem un-smart. I'd bet even money that between each take she played with a ball of yarn and a scratching post. I wonder if Awsi would take that bet.


I've studed that segment and have come to the conclusion that the friend:

A) Had smoked an 1/8 of high quality greens all by herself immediately before the interview
B) Followed the weed with Thorazine
C) Was confused and hypnotically transfixed by the shiny metal rings on the cameraman's fingers
D) Had been kicked in the head by a horse (or horseS)
E) Listens to and supports Ann Coulter

Miaow. Kitten's got claws. Miaoooorrr .. Hissss! :lol:

Did they even bother to ask any other neighbors if they heard screams, or simply jump straight to the assumption she just crawled off and died? :rolleyes:

Considering she was an exotic dancer and being in LA where violence and crime is out the roof to begin with, she was probably followed home by some freak show who ended up breaking into her apartment and either strangled her or suffocated her. They were so sketchy on the details of how they found her. They never mentioned if they found any sign of forced entry (and if they did, I missed it).

How that couple got past NOT calling the police after hearing those screams is beyond me. As far as them reacting the way anyone else in that situation would react, I think that's a load of crap. A few years ago, something similar happened to my boyfriend and I in an old apartment building we use to live in. We woke up to someone screaming bloody murder either outside or in the apartment next to us at about 2:30 AM, and my very first reaction once I realized what we were hearing was to call the police. Nothing was ever found of it, I'm pretty sure it was just some college students screwing around, but just waking up to the sounds of that is absolutely bone chilling. I don't understand how they could just roll over and go back to sleep after hearing something like that.

Funny how the husband didn't want to get involved by calling the police, but he didn't seem to mind going on Unsolved Mysteries. I always found that rather suspicious...

Funny how the husband didn't want to get involved by calling the police, but he didn't seem to mind going on Unsolved Mysteries. I always found that rather suspicious...

Going on UM will get you some attention and noticed. Why else would a man have gone on national television with the name "Jet"?

I think the hubby and the wife were doing stuff that was not the most legal. I can't think of another explanation other than they're ********. Also, this was an effort to assuage their conscience about letting a woman get murdered and not doing anything about it. JMHO. Okay, getting off of the soapbox now.

Of course we can only speculate, but my feeling is that Anton was not involved...I do know for certain that "Jet" is a coward.

What a shame. The only chance this case has of being solved is if the murderer (and I do think Crystal was murdered) or someone the murderer has confided in comes forward. It's certainly not impossible, but not likely.

Funny how the husband didn't want to get involved by calling the police, but he didn't seem to mind going on Unsolved Mysteries. I always found that rather suspicious...


You know people...they will do anything for attention and to make themselves feel important, even if they come off as a jackass.

i think it's possible she may have had a convulsion. when someone has a seizure they may scream and choke on their own vomit or saliva. i guess she was trying to call for help and she started shaking and the phone got tangled around her body. people get seizures from drugs, epilepsy, too much heat, etc....um i still dont know about the half naked part. oh and i still dont know how they got the autopsy wrong. the autopsy said she was 5'7 and 140 pounds. her bf said she was barely 5 feet and only 105 pounds....

i think it's possible she may have had a convulsion. when someone has a seizure they may scream and choke on their own vomit or saliva. i guess she was trying to call for help and she started shaking and the phone got tangled around her body. people get seizures from drugs, epilepsy, too much heat, etc....um i still dont know about the half naked part. oh and i still dont know how they got the autopsy wrong. the autopsy said she was 5'7 and 140 pounds. her bf said she was barely 5 feet and only 105 pounds....

I must say that is a very good theory and a scenario I hadn't thought of before. They did say she hadn't been feeling well shortly before her death.

I must say that is a very good theory and a scenario I hadn't thought of before. They did say she hadn't been feeling well shortly before her death.


right! and if someone has a seizure for more than an hour they can die. i guess she was half naked because it was hot in her apartment they said and...well...it's her house! her freedom.

i just read the articles posted about crystal spencer and there was another witness. the other neighbor said the sounds started in the day and got worse at night. he said it sounded like she was violently ill. so he actually could've called the police too...that makes three morons. i really dont think she was murdered now after reading those articles. if she was, i think it would have to do with her friend who was murdered 10 months before.

She was indirectly murdered by the morons who didn't call for help when they heard sounds of distress.

Getting the information on there being multiple times that people have heard screams:


1. Considering she was an actress, i wonder if the screams were part of here practicing a script? Perhaps a horror movie part?

2. What prolonged sickness has you screaming in terror? Why did she not tell her boyfriend that her illness was severe? The only illness i can think of would be something stomach or abdomen related? Poison? Overdose? Product Tampering or defective medicine? Botched plastic surgery? Weight loss drugs? Binging and Purging?

3. I still tend to consider the thought that she was involved in S&M sex acts and may have been killed by accident. If she was doing tricks on the side. Maybe she found the wrong client

I think the screams are being blown out of porportion, i think more info needs to be found about here life as stripper and what happened in the house a

As with the 'Rob Schafer did it' angle, I think we're reading too much into this one.

people typically don't scream when they're in pain unless someone else is causing it. they'll moan and groan, but not scream. Screaming expends energy, and most people in pain try to conserve energy.

the screaming heard on the UM segment (if portyrayed accurately) was the bloodcurdling type. this is the loudest and most horrifying sounding. This is not an audition for a role scream or a "I saw a mouse scream", it's a "my life is danger scream"

When you combine certain elements (her line of work, city in which she lived, how she was found), I would say the facts point heavily towards murder.

but even though her body was badly decomposed, they still should've been able to find signs of foul play. and who gets a cold in may? it had to have been something more serious.

If the autopsy was botched, that kind of throws everything out the window in terms of whether there was evidence of foul play.

In terms of how she was murdered, i vote strangulation.

There was another Unsolved Mysteries where the lady thought she was just sick, but had been poisoned by her husband. Then the husband intimidated her friend to leave so he could finish her off.

If the autopsy was botched, that kind of throws everything out the window in terms of whether there was evidence of foul play.

In terms of how she was murdered, i vote strangulation.
Crystal spencer was murdered PERIOD. She went to a party that was hosted by HORACE MCKENNA an ex Burbank cop- that was at the time 1988- heavily involved in both child pornography and cocaine. Crystal went to his party and was VERY VOCAL( she spoke up) at the type of party it was-Old men ,some of them MAY have been cops, having sex with 8-10 year olds. Horrace freaked out -kicked her out of the party, and then 3 days later made sure she was sold a tainted bag of coke that was laced with borac acid. She died from poisoning. One of the most painful ways to go I have been told. Horace was later killed himself and he was on unsolved mysteries also(the story of his death) I personally received 2 different phone calls from some of the other strippers that were there, and they both told me the same story. I am Crystals Brother.

Condolences on the loss of your sister and thanks for sending enlightening details. I suppose those responsible for this made sure enough time had passed that this couldn't be tested (meaning, remains which have been immediately well-preserved can sometimes retain evidence years later--was this not an option in this case?)

It's so sad that people who have witnessed something that might put them in danger can't go somewhere safe till they reveal all they know to authorities who can be trusted.

but even though her body was badly decomposed, they still should've been able to find signs of foul play. and who gets a cold in may? it had to have been something more serious.

LMAO, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard! Okay, not ever, but probably the dumbest thing today. I've gotten several colds in May, and I live in Texas. It's called too much flipping air conditioning.

Crystal spencer was murdered PERIOD. She went to a party that was hosted by HORACE MCKENNA an ex Burbank cop- that was at the time 1988- heavily involved in both child pornography and cocaine. Crystal went to his party and was VERY VOCAL( she spoke up) at the type of party it was-Old men ,some of them MAY have been cops, having sex with 8-10 year olds. Horrace freaked out -kicked her out of the party, and then 3 days later made sure she was sold a tainted bag of coke that was laced with borac acid. She died from poisoning. One of the most painful ways to go I have been told. Horace was later killed himself and he was on unsolved mysteries also(the story of his death) I personally received 2 different phone calls from some of the other strippers that were there, and they both told me the same story. I am Crystals Brother.


My condolences as well. Is there anything that's being done about this? That can be done about this?

My condolences as well. Is there anything that's being done about this? That can be done about this?

Can anyone do an update including these suspicions, with or without physical evidence?

LMAO, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard! Okay, not ever, but probably the dumbest thing today. I've gotten several colds in May, and I live in Texas. It's called too much flipping air conditioning.


what the f ever

Condolences on the loss of your sister and thanks for sending enlightening details. I suppose those responsible for this made sure enough time had passed that this couldn't be tested (meaning, remains which have been immediately well-preserved can sometimes retain evidence years later--was this not an option in this case?)

It's so sad that people who have witnessed something that might put them in danger can't go somewhere safe till they reveal all they know to authorities who can be trusted.


how do u know that's even real?

how do u know that's even real?Well, you don't. That's the nature of the internet. You believe what you want to believe. There are many people who claim to be family members or people involved in cases that post here often. Many of them are considered to be part of our little family. However, I should point out that this is not the first time we've heard of the Horace McKenna theory here: see this thread (http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=157766&highlight=horace).

Also, you can get a cold at any time of the year.

Well, you don't. That's the nature of the internet. You believe what you want to believe. There are many people who claim to be family members or people involved in cases that post here often. Many of them are considered to be part of our little family. However, I should point out that this is not the first time we've heard of the Horace McKenna theory here: see this thread (http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=157766&highlight=horace).

Also, you can get a cold at any time of the year.
hola- no I am the real deal I am crystal spencers only brother. I am going to let you in on some of crystals secrets- she was the best damn fighter I have ever witnessed or fought in my life(that includes military) She wanted to be a star mor than anything in the world . she would get the stars map's of stars homes and the go and knock on their doors , or go thru their garbage-she was unbelievably good looking- So is my other sister Julie-I was living in Florida at the time of her death- Julie called me and asked 'how do we get to the Hollywood sign? we are going to put Crystals ashes on it"I told them because I have been up there many times before-they won't let you get up there any longer. Julie told me later on that they could only get around 500 feet below the Hollywood sign ,but when mom opened the urn and started pouring the ashes- right then a big gust of wind came along and literally flew the ashes up to the sign. I asked my mom about that later-years later actually and she said"that is exaclaty what happened and it gave me golf ball size goose bumps."The lady who played peg bundy on married with children was also at the ceremony( I don't know her Name)I guess she was a friend of my sister s. I personall y likethank anton kline and Det.Krafttheir workon this matter. I have not met either one of them but I had talked to both of them on the phone in 1988 one more thing she didnt make it to 30 but she packed more into life than most people and she was incredibly wise in many ways more so than anyone I have ever met. thank you. Crystals brother

hola- no I am the real deal I am crystal spencers only brother. I am going to let you in on some of crystals secrets- she was the best damn fighter I have ever witnessed or fought in my life(that includes military) She wanted to be a star mor than anything in the world . she would get the stars map's of stars homes and the go and knock on their doors , or go thru their garbage-she was unbelievably good looking- So is my other sister Julie-I was living in Florida at the time of her death- Julie called me and asked 'how do we get to the Hollywood sign? we are going to put Crystals ashes on it"I told them because I have been up there many times before-they won't let you get up there any longer. Julie told me later on that they could only get around 500 feet below the Hollywood sign ,but when mom opened the urn and started pouring the ashes- right then a big gust of wind came along and literally flew the ashes up to the sign. I asked my mom about that later-years later actually and she said"that is exaclaty what happened and it gave me golf ball size goose bumps."The lady who played peg bundy on married with children was also at the ceremony( I don't know her Name)I guess she was a friend of my sister s. I personall y likethank anton kline and Det.Krafttheir workon this matter. I have not met either one of them but I had talked to both of them on the phone in 1988 one more thing she didnt make it to 30 but she packed more into life than most people and she was incredibly wise in many ways more so than anyone I have ever met. thank you. Crystals brother

nice to have you posting here, aussie rules

Katey Segal played Peg Bundy on married with children

not sure of the lay out of her house/apartment but if it was late in the evening and May, it would be hot enough in the hollywood area to leave a window or patio/balcony door open. if this was her usual routine someone may have simply came inside and got her.

I believe that I have come to a correct conclusion that has not been considered as of yet.

She was quitting heroin. that explains why she was sick in May. That explains the screams, quitting heroin is very painful.

She probably wanted to quit before going to Japan.


Heroin is out of your system in 2-5 days, and the withdrawals last a solid 3 days at least. they also don't start for about 24 hours, usually.

By the time her withdrawals were the worst, she wouldn't have had any signs of heroin in her sytem.

This drug is common among women of her profession, from what I've heard.

The withdrawals usually aren't, but they could be fatal. They will also make you feel like suicide is a good idea.

What do you think?

I believe that I have come to a correct conclusion that has not been considered as of yet.

She was quitting heroin. that explains why she was sick in May. That explains the screams, quitting heroin is very painful.

She probably wanted to quit before going to Japan.


Heroin is out of your system in 2-5 days, and the withdrawals last a solid 3 days at least. they also don't start for about 24 hours, usually.

By the time her withdrawals were the worst, she wouldn't have had any signs of heroin in her sytem.

This drug is common among women of her profession, from what I've heard.

The withdrawals usually aren't, but they could be fatal. They will also make you feel like suicide is a good idea.

What do you think?

Wouldn't she have needle tracks on her arms?

I know her body was badly decomposed, but wouldn;t her boyfriend have noticed the needle tracks and brought up heroin addiction to the authorities.

No heroin paraphenelia was found at the scene.

You theory is not bad, it just that according to the case as it is, there has been no evidence that Crystal ever used any type of illegal narcotic.

I would think that someone who was coming off drugs would be moaning in pain rather than screaming out. And I agree that there was no evidence that Crystal was ever a drug user.

I do like when people come up with alternate theories.

I would think that someone who was coming off drugs would be moaning in pain rather than screaming out. And I agree that there was no evidence that Crystal was ever a drug user.

I do like when people come up with alternate theories.

But her supposed brother posted that she was sold a bag of coke tainted with boric acid. If true, that would indicate she was a drug user, unfortunately.

I don't think it's that odd that she was partly undressed. Maybe she was half-naked because she was trying to get dressed to go to the hospital, knowing she was really ill. She couldn't finish getting dressed because she collapsed or got too weak.

maybe she was ingesting the heroin nasaly, not leaving any injection marks.

also, i have been around heroin users as they quit on several occasions. there is often screaming and yelling, along with kicking.

usually when heroin users are withdrawaling they tell friends and loved ones they are just sick or have a cold.

maybe she was ingesting the heroin nasaly, not leaving any injection marks.

If she was using it nasaly(sp?) for a prolonged period of time. There would be traces left in her nose and sinus passages. Also there would be evidence of damage to the septum and nasal passages. There would be blood clotting and sores. Especially with heroin which is even more coarse and irritating to the nasal passages than cocaine. Isn;t that the main reason people inject heroin to begin with. People sniff cocaine rather than inject it most of the time because it's easier to get a high if it's snorted.

But her supposed brother posted that she was sold a bag of coke tainted with boric acid. If true, that would indicate she was a drug user, unfortunately.

It would also indicate that she was indeed murdered and someone is getting away with that murder and perhaps several others.

I'm no narcotics expert (well maybe a joint of of a certain herb every now and then, just kidding.:D ) but heroin is more an east coast drug than west coast drug. Isn't it mostly coke in Los Angeles for the struggling working class, with mostly the rich using heroin? Have lived in Baltimore, it's primarily low grade heroin there, with very little crack and cocaine. Same in Philadelphia.

If Crystal was on drugs, i think coke would be the most likely drug.

It's important to keep in mind that Crystal was an exotic dancer, not a prostitute. And she was based in LA not a city like Cleveland or Detroit.

There are a lot of women who take up that profession in that area who lead clean lives and are aspiring actresses, doctors, vets, lawyers,and don't use drugs.

Her profession could give us clues on her fate, but it doesn;t necessarily mean it was the cause of her fate or that it has anything to do with how she wound up.

That being said, if Crystal was using drugs, her dealer should be very easy to find. He had to be supplying the other dancers and working in the club.

The dealer would also know when he she stopped copping from him if she was indeed giving up drugs.

I would think that someone who was coming off drugs would be moaning in pain rather than screaming out. And I agree that there was no evidence that Crystal was ever a drug user.

she would also be vomitting and making sounds of vomitting. Of which there should be traces of on carpet, toilet, sink..etc.

She would also be sweating profusely and taking a substitute of some sort (alcohol, pills, sweets, hell maybe NYQUIL)

Blood curling screaming is not a usually act of someone suffering from withdrawl.

Also if she is suffering from such an extreme withdrawal reaction, it would mean she was a habitual user for at least a year.

Blood curling screaming is not a usually act of someone suffering from withdrawl.

Thats really a case by case thing. Some folks will scream out when their body starts falling apart from a kick.


...it would mean she was a habitual user for at least a year.

That's simply not true.


But why are we even debating this? Didn't the coroner's report declare she had no drugs or alcohol in her system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind
...it would mean she was a habitual user for at least a year.


That's simply not true.

You probably right. What i really mean to say is that i really doubt she started a drug habit 2 months ago and is just decided then to kick the habit. I have to imagine her drug habit was not a recent thing. That she was using for at least a year.

But why are we even debating this? Didn't the coroner's report declare she had no drugs or alcohol in her system?

I agree with you, but due to the potential botching of the autopsy and the badly decomposed state of the body, the possibility of the coroner's report being wrong makes the discussion somewhat worthwhile.

I'm just exploring all possibilities.

My two cents on the matter is that she was killed.

One of those cases where too much time has passed and the killer will never be caught :(

When Police mess up, they cover up.

Do we know for sure that the body that was cremated was even the right one? Obviously the autopsy had enough discrepencies to question whether it was done on the right body. From the sounds of this case I'm shocked that family and friends have not pursued legal action to re-open the case. Just because the body is gone does not mean the case is unsolvable.

If they had determined the cause of death, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. With all due respect, you are talking out of your a**. Please take the time to watch the segment, and/or back up your statements with some kind of proof/references rather than arguing just for the sake of arguing.

nohwheregirl, cut thuissat some slack. you don't have to be so rude about it.

Watched this episode again, one aspect of this case that has been overlooked at times is the fact that Crystal Spencer's body was found in a remote location of the house. It was not found in the type of area you would expect a person who just dropped dead would be found (i.e. middle of the floor, in bed, etc...)

That leads more to the idea that someone placed her body in that area.

Watched this episode again, one aspect of this case that has been overlooked at times is the fact that Crystal Spencer's body was found in a remote location of the house. It was not found in the type of area you would expect a person who just dropped dead would be found (i.e. middle of the floor, in bed, etc...)

That leads more to the idea that someone placed her body in that area.

You're right about that one. I doubt Crystal sat herself down in a remote corner of her apartment and decided to die there. It's more like someone placed her there to try and hide her body to avoid it being found right away.

nohwheregirl, cut thuissat some slack. you don't have to be so rude about it.That post is over two years old. I sure hope he's gotten over it by now.

wasn't she trying to become an actress also? Maybe she had become friendly (not necessarily romantically or sexually) with some faux agent or someone supposedly affiliated with the entertainment business. Maybe that person went to check on her and things got out of hand.

I have to watch this eppie again but I can kinda remember it being said that she initially came to LA to become an actress or do something in the entertainment arena but things didn't quite work out as she planned and she ended up stripping. I kinda think with her boyfriend and wanting something better, maybe she turned to someone she thought would help her get that big break she wanted from the start. I dunno...it was a thought...

That post is over two years old. I sure hope he's gotten over it by now.

I'm sure he has. And since it's been over two years, I sure hope you have changed your attitude and don't talk to people like that anymore.

Wow. :rolleyes:

This is like watching a really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, slow motion boxing match.

Wow. :rolleyes:

This is like watching a really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, slow motion boxing match.

amen to that tracylynns

One thing that has puzzled me about this episode....

....is there really a difference between an exotic dancer and a stripper???

The Stackmeister seemed to think so.:D

Just watched this segement. One, if you heard blood curdling screams that made you think someone was being tortured why wouldn't you call the police? If you lived in an apartment complex, what are the odds that the perpetrator (if there was one) was going to know who called the cops and seek retaliation? Two, it seems some people have theorized that Crystal was dying from inhaling some sort of tainted drugs...I could see that if all the neighbors heard were sounds of someone choking, but to hear screams? Just doesn't make sense for someone to scream if their suffering from a poisoning...if you have enough wherewithal to scream, why not call 911? And three, at times in the segment it reminded me of a Friday the 13th movie...it almost sounds like you can hear, "Ch-ch-ch-ah-ah-ah" in the background of some of the creepy music.

Another thing I've noted is that Anton Kline seems to be a bit too stuffy/square/yuppie for someone like Crystal Spencer to be interested in. Yes opposites attract, but when they said Kline was involved in the film industry, I just thought maybe she was seeing him to further her career in the industry. Just speculation though.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another thing I've noted is that Anton Kline seems to be a bit too stuffy/square/yuppie for someone like Crystal Spencer to be interested in. Yes opposites attract, but when they said Kline was involved in the film industry, I just thought maybe she was seeing him to further her career in the industry. Just speculation though.

I'm sure the Crystal saw the relationship as a potential foothold into acting, but I kind of felt there was some mutual love between them.

They kind of had an Arthur Miller/Marilyn Monroe relationship if you will. :D

Are there any updates on this case? I believe she was murdered, but due to decomposition of her body they can't prove it. It would be nice if the cops took another look at this case.

I just saw this case today (again) and here are my thoughts:

Anton Kline dint file a missing persons report or talk to her for a week??? hard to believe that and very suspicious...

the neighbors are stupid for not "getting involved" however they were in the UM segment...many of us would have done what they did and not call the police

i believe that maybe she had a crazy obsessed guy from her stripper job who was after her for sex, maybe he went to her place she answered the door and forced his way in to her apartment in way in which theres no evidence to the police of a forced entry (no broken door knobs, or anything showing a forced entry)

the autopsy report could have been a human error so i don't think there is anything mysterious about that

and its very hard to believe that a young woman can just "die" of natural causes (although i know this changed after the segment??)

Anton Kline dint file a missing persons report or talk to her for a week??? hard to believe that and very suspicious...

Anton and Crystal were just boyfriend and girlfriend. They were'nt related or living together. Boyfrineds and Girlfriends not talking to each or seeing each other for a week is not unusual.

She was also about to go on a business trip, so it wasn;t like they expected to hear from each other soon.


i believe that maybe she had a crazy obsessed guy from her stripper job who was after her for sex, maybe he went to her place she answered the door and forced his way in to her apartment in way in which theres no evidence to the police of a forced entry (no broken door knobs, or anything showing a forced entry)

Why did he have to force his way in? Maybe she just let him in through the front door? The guy could be a friend or employee of the strip club.

the autopsy report could have been a human error so i don't think there is anything mysterious about that

True it could be a human error. Or her killer might have been a cop or politician. Those guys frequent strip clubs as well.

the neighbors are stupid for not "getting involved" however they were in the UM segment...many of us would have done what they did and not call the police

Or the neighbors might have been involved in illegal activity at the time. Perhaps they were doing blow?

Anton and Crystal were just boyfriend and girlfriend. They were'nt related or living together. Boyfrineds and Girlfriends not talking to each or seeing each other for a week is not unusual.

She was also about to go on a business trip, so it wasn;t like they expected to hear from each other soon.


Are all of the readers still interested in this Crystal Spencer case? Let me know as I have something to say if anyone is still listening!:wave: :confused:

Why did he have to force his way in? Maybe she just let him in through the front door? The guy could be a friend or employee of the strip club.



True it could be a human error. Or her killer might have been a cop or politician. Those guys frequent strip clubs as well.



Or the neighbors might have been involved in illegal activity at the time. Perhaps they were doing blow?

Red Ryder - your post is...odd?

Well even though I haven't posted in this thead I am still interested in this case. Aside from loving to hear what everyone has to say I do wonder what has happened to some of the players from this case. I often find myself wondering what people are doing now after being on this show and how their lives have moved on. Anton Kline for example. And the stupid husband and wife who didn't call the police (though I did read about her earlier in this thread). So please, keep posting, there are people out there who are interested in probably all these cases, I'd assume.

Anton and Crystal were just boyfriend and girlfriend. They were'nt related or living together. Boyfrineds and Girlfriends not talking to each or seeing each other for a week is not unusual.


I disagree with this statement. I am married and of course I see or talk to my wife on a daily basis but during the course of our dating, I would never go a day without speaking with her. Most of the girls I have dated, I would at least call each day. Now I'm not saying that that is the norm as I'm sure some people go a while without speaking to each other. The problem I have with this segment is Anton had said that things were getting odd or different, I cant remember the exact paraphrasing of the word. Well if that had been the case, it seems like he would have gone to check on her alot sooner than a week later.

I disagree with this statement. I am married and of course I see or talk to my wife on a daily basis but during the course of our dating, I would never go a day without speaking with her.

You could be right.

But the difference between a live-in pair/spuses is that there is a sort of obligation to call considering the both of you share a house.

Also a boyfriend and girlfriend can go through breakups and spats and separations that may cause periods of silence.. But if your married and have a spat, you still kind of have to check in with your wife.

@ red ryder: I'd like to read what you have to say about the case.

Exotic Dancer In Essence A Stripper? No,no not in essence she was a stripper? I think bondage gone wrong and most likely she was afraid Anton would find her real job a much more dangerous one. Anton says they bungled the investigation if I can quote the Casalro episode "When they screw up, They cover up!"

"LA Times" -Kline put forward one such hypothesis concerned a flamboyant, 300-pound man named Horace Joseph (Mac) McKenna, a onetime California Highway Patrol officer who was believed to maintain secret ownership of topless bars.

According to rumor, McKenna used some of the many women he knew to entertain friends in law enforcement. In addition to patronizing the Wild Goose, McKenna operated a clandestine gambling casino out of a warehouse in Inglewood, where Spencer spent time, according to a former waitress friend of Spencer's who, for fear of reprisals, asked not to be identified.

McKenna died violently less than 10 months after Spencer's death. He was ambushed in a hail of gunfire outside his Brea home less than 24 hours after a search warrant was made public disclosing a police investigation of his empire.
There a great Forensic Files about Mckenna make me think even more spencer was murdered.

"LA Times" -Kline put forward one such hypothesis concerned a flamboyant, 300-pound man named Horace Joseph (Mac) McKenna, a onetime California Highway Patrol officer who was believed to maintain secret ownership of topless bars.

According to rumor, McKenna used some of the many women he knew to entertain friends in law enforcement. In addition to patronizing the Wild Goose, McKenna operated a clandestine gambling casino out of a warehouse in Inglewood, where Spencer spent time, according to a former waitress friend of Spencer's who, for fear of reprisals, asked not to be identified.

McKenna died violently less than 10 months after Spencer's death. He was ambushed in a hail of gunfire outside his Brea home less than 24 hours after a search warrant was made public disclosing a police investigation of his empire.
There a great Forensic Files about Mckenna make me think even more spencer was murdered.

Interesting
Anyone have a link.

A cop being responsible would make sense. It would explain the autopsy fiasco.

It would also explain how the killer knew to keep Crystal;s body out of view by placing it in a remote place.

The case makes absolutely no sense.

First, they say she had a cold, then the idiot neighbors confess they heard tortuous screams.

I say until the full autopsy is found, no one can declare if it was murder or natural.

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-02-24/news/mn-2042_1_spencer-case/7
This is the LA Times Article.

It's interesting that many posters in this thread seem to think Anton Kline is a rather suspicious character. Although, I doubt he would want the case to be further investigated if he was the one who killed Crystal. So, he seems pretty innocent.

What bugs me about this case is the fact that the dvmb-ass neighbors didn't do anything. Someone's life could be in danger, yet they didn't do a damn thing?. Hell, they could have prevented a murder.

Since Crystal Spencer worked as a stripper/exotic dancer, she could have fallen prey to any type of shady individual.

I disagree with this statement. I am married and of course I see or talk to my wife on a daily basis but during the course of our dating, I would never go a day without speaking with her. Most of the girls I have dated, I would at least call each day. Now I'm not saying that that is the norm as I'm sure some people go a while without speaking to each other. The problem I have with this segment is Anton had said that things were getting odd or different, I cant remember the exact paraphrasing of the word. Well if that had been the case, it seems like he would have gone to check on her alot sooner than a week later.

She was a young woman trying to become an actress in Hollywood.He was a middle-aged screenwriter.It appears she had a very different idea about what type of relationship they were having than he did. In fact her leaving the US to become a "hostess" in Japan should give most people an idea of how "serious" she thought the relationship was.

I've always thought that without the neighbors (obviously wannabe actors themselves) story about the "screams" they allegedly heard and the boyfriend's raising questions about the death, it's likely that this case would have been declared an illness-related death and closed.

Since the segment doesn't give an idea of the overall health of Ms. Spencer, we really have no idea how ill she was and how quickly she could have been overcome by an infection. Since, for whatever reason, she chose not to go to the ER, she may have let a likely minor illness get out of control.

I was always pretty much convinced she was murdered and good old police corruption was involved in covering it up. Its a differnt world out there in LALA land.

And unfortunately I don't think it will ever be solved.

I just saw this episode on UM a few minutes ago. I haven't read pages 2-9 of the thread yet. The UM slant made it seem like she was murdered and it was covered up by LAPD for some reason. At least that is the take I got from watching it. I am also somewhat suspicious of the boyfriend, Anton. I need to read the rest of the thread and see how I feel then.

Yep, still feel the same.

I really hate the fact that the autopsy report is incorrect. We know for sure that the report of Crystal's height and weight are wrong. That makes me wonder if they even autopsied the right body. That whole report, including the toxicology, no evidence of knife wounds, bullet wounds, or severe trauma, could be referring to a completely different body.

Also, we can't rule out that it was a botched autopsy on the right body, for whatever reason: political corruption, incompetence, cover up, etc.

Several weeks ago, here in Michigan, a bank president went missing. (David Widlak) Theories ranged from abduction/murder to him running off with the bank's money. His decomposing body was eventually found in a lake. The first autopsy was performed by a politically connected, second generation coroner. He ruled that it was a death by drowning, a likely suicide. Mr. Widlak's family could not believe that due to his personality and the suspicious circumstances regarding his disappearance from the bank.

The family had another well known coroner perform a second autopsy. He immediately found a bullet wound to the back of the head/neck that looked like an execution or "hit". The cops went straight back to where they found the body, and within 30 minutes, they found the gun that had been used.

That was a very high profile case, which you would expect to get extra attention from the ME's office. Crystal was just a "stripper", and not a high profile case at all. If they can goof up the big cases so badly, I'm sure they can make a mess out of a routine report. Plus, the morgue that performed her examination is one of the busiest in the country. Crystal had been dead for about a week when she was found. It's possible that her skin could have ruptured in more than one place during decomposition. IMO, an incompetent examiner could have definitely missed a knife wound in that situation.

Post #71 refers to an article that says a third neighbor heard screams the night Crystal died. Is that true? He/She said that the screaming started in the daytime and got worse through the night. I was wondering why prolonged screaming in an apartment complex would be heard by only the two people in the apartment below Crystal's. If the screaming did happen, why didn't the neighbors on each side or above her apartment hear anything?

I'd like to know more about that because I'm suspicous if the screaming ever happened at all. Susan Akin, one ear-witness, was in LA also pursuing an acting career. We all agree that it was weird about Susan and her husband not reporting the screams because they were afraid to get involved, yet they had no problem being interviewed on national TV.

Honestly, I wonder if Susan Akin was just an attention whore who heard nothing the night Crystal died, but once there was a big commotion, decided to interject herself into the scene so she could get on TV. That would explain why she and her husband listened to screams for hours but never reported it (out of fear), yet they weren't concerned at all about identifying themselves on tv. They should have been more afraid of being ID'd by a killer seeing them on TV than by calling 911 to report suspicious screams.

Were any of Crystal's family interviewed in the segment? I only remember her boyfriend being interviewed. I do know that they said her family repeatedly requested to see Crystal's body but the authorities kept refusing and told them the body was in no condition to be seen. I'm sure it was too decomposed for a loved one to view, but maybe there would be less confusion about the 5'7", 140 person described in the autopsy if someone who knew her was able to ID the body.

Even though the body was badly decomposed, the authorities said they identified her by her fingerprints. I know that it's possible, but finding usable prints on a body in that condition seems odd.

Was Anton Kline really Crystal's boyfriend, or was she a prostitute and he was more like a regular client? I didn't realize that hookers got closely involved with their customers until a local college student who was married and employed (but had a second, unknown career as an escort) was murdered by her most frequent client. They almost had a boyfriend/girlfriend type relationship, which made me wonder about Crystal and Anton.

I really hate the fact that the autopsy report is incorrect. We know for sure that the report of Crystal's height and weight are wrong. That makes me wonder if they even autopsied the right body. That whole report, including the toxicology, no evidence of knife wounds, bullet wounds, or severe trauma, could be referring to a completely different body.

Also, we can't rule out that it was a botched autopsy on the right body, for whatever reason: political corruption, incompetence, cover up, etc.

Several weeks ago, here in Michigan, a bank president went missing. (David Widlak) Theories ranged from abduction/murder to him running off with the bank's money. His decomposing body was eventually found in a lake. The first autopsy was performed by a politically connected, second generation coroner. He ruled that it was a death by drowning, a likely suicide. Mr. Widlak's family could not believe that due to his personality and the suspicious circumstances regarding his disappearance from the bank.

The family had another well known coroner perform a second autopsy. He immediately found a bullet wound to the back of the head/neck that looked like an execution or "hit". The cops went straight back to where they found the body, and within 30 minutes, they found the gun that had been used.

That was a very high profile case, which you would expect to get extra attention from the ME's office. Crystal was just a "stripper", and not a high profile case at all. If they can goof up the big cases so badly, I'm sure they can make a mess out of a routine report. Plus, the morgue that performed her examination is one of the busiest in the country. Crystal had been dead for about a week when she was found. It's possible that her skin could have ruptured in more than one place during decomposition. IMO, an incompetent examiner could have definitely missed a knife wound in that situation.

Post #71 refers to an article that says a third neighbor heard screams the night Crystal died. Is that true? He/She said that the screaming started in the daytime and got worse through the night. I was wondering why prolonged screaming in an apartment complex would be heard by only the two people in the apartment below Crystal's. If the screaming did happen, why didn't the neighbors on each side or above her apartment hear anything?

I'd like to know more about that because I'm suspicous if the screaming ever happened at all. Susan Akin, one ear-witness, was in LA also pursuing an acting career. We all agree that it was weird about Susan and her husband not reporting the screams because they were afraid to get involved, yet they had no problem being interviewed on national TV.

Honestly, I wonder if Susan Akin was just an attention whore who heard nothing the night Crystal died, but once there was a big commotion, decided to interject herself into the scene so she could get on TV. That would explain why she and her husband listened to screams for hours but never reported it (out of fear), yet they weren't concerned at all about identifying themselves on tv. They should have been more afraid of being ID'd by a killer seeing them on TV than by calling 911 to report suspicious screams.

Were any of Crystal's family interviewed in the segment? I only remember her boyfriend being interviewed. I do know that they said her family repeatedly requested to see Crystal's body but the authorities kept refusing and told them the body was in no condition to be seen. I'm sure it was too decomposed for a loved one to view, but maybe there would be less confusion about the 5'7", 140 person described in the autopsy if someone who knew her was able to ID the body.

Even though the body was badly decomposed, the authorities said they identified her by her fingerprints. I know that it's possible, but finding usable prints on a body in that condition seems odd.

Was Anton Kline really Crystal's boyfriend, or was she a prostitute and he was more like a regular client? I didn't realize that hookers got closely involved with their customers until a local college student who was married and employed (but had a second, unknown career as an escort) was murdered by her most frequent client. They almost had a boyfriend/girlfriend type relationship, which made me wonder about Crystal and Anton.

I'm more inclined to believe that incompetence is the reason for the errors on the autopsy report than any type of active cover-up. Why? No one is claiming that Crystal Spencer was involved in any type of drug dealing, organized crime or anything of that nature. There isn't even a claim that she was dating any type of politician or public figure. What would there be to cover up if this is the case?

1) The extra attention this case received was due to her friend Anton raising interest in it. Numerous people were found dead in Hollywood, even in mysterious circumstances, yet their deaths received far less attention than Ms. Spencer's did.Frankly, I think that her friend's response to this was and is the only reason that this is actually still considered a mystery.

2) Ms. Spencer's family didn't seem to be particularly close. The reason that I state this is that Ms. Spencer didn't contact any one for about a week and yet Mr. Anton was the only one that called the police to notify them about this. Sadly, it also seems that Ms. Spencer didn't have any ( or many) close friends, as you would've thought at least one would have come by to see her.

3) The screams have always bothered me as well. Even if the neighbors didn't want to get involved and call the police, the fact that someone was screaming early in the morning before the day would have and should have been at least a minor annoyance for working people.
Had it happened, unless it was the norm for that building, it's surprising that no one would have called management and let them know that this had occurred or was occurring.

4) I go back to my earlier statement, where I said without knowing Ms. Spencer's general overall health ( since no drugs were found in the body) it's difficult to say exactly how sick she was and how quickly an untreated infection could have overcome her.

I am kind of inclined to believe that the coroner's office might be covering up a botched autopsy, or even an accidental body switch.

Also, there have been reports through the years of healthy people dying after taking OTC cold medicines. And it might be even more likely that happened if she was drinking or using drugs while she took the cold medicine.

That might explain her trying to get to the phone to call for help.

But it still doesn't explain the screams, if there were screams.

I'm more inclined to believe that incompetence is the reason for the errors on the autopsy report than any type of active cover-up. Why? No one is claiming that Crystal Spencer was involved in any type of drug dealing, organized crime or anything of that nature. There isn't even a claim that she was dating any type of politician or public figure. What would there be to cover up if this is the case?

I think the possible "cover up" is a theory that's only been presented by those of us here discussing the case but wasn't mentioned in the segment. Is that correct?

I also doubt Crystal was involved with major political players in the area. It does happen though. We've got the years old Tamara Greene case here in Detroit. She was a stripper who performed at a party at the mayor's home in 2002. About a year later, she was murdered, allegedly by the mayor's wife or upon her orders. (Officials are sort of half heartedly re-invesigating this case, probably because the Mayor and powerful people in his inner circle have since been convicted of serious crimes.)

I suppose it's remotely possible that kind of thing could have happened to Crystal, but I really doubt it. That kind of info would probably have been leaked to the public by now, as it was in Tamara Greene's case.

If there really was a cover up, it would probably be more along the lines of a dirty cop. But would one cop in such a huge county have strong enough ties, and enough clout with a whole bunch of ME office employees to convince them or bribe them to officially lie about a murder for him? Possible, but I doubt that too.

4) I go back to my earlier statement, where I said without knowing Ms. Spencer's general overall health ( since no drugs were found in the body) it's difficult to say exactly how sick she was and how quickly an untreated infection could have overcome her.

It took quite a few years for me to realize how prevalent natural death in young people can be.

Seems like there have been quite a few high school athletes who have died suddently. The Russian figure skater, Sergei Grinkov, was only 28 when he died from an undiagnosed heart ailment.

Some young ladies die unexpected from complications of gynecological problems, such as botched abortions, undiagnosed eptopic pregnancies, blood clots from the birth control pill, etc.

In the 90s, I think the diet drug Fen Phen was linked to heart related death in young women. There's also the possiblity of Crystal being sick and having a fatal reaction to medication.

Back to possible murder, remember the Canadian young lady whose landlord was paying her rent (I think she may have been an escort and he was either infatuated with her or was a client, I can't remember). He was running out of money and, unknown to her, he had stopped paying her rent. She was soon to be evicted. I think part of the motive for murder was jealosy and the fact that he didn't want her to find out she was losing her apartment. (It's been a long time, I'm not sure on the details.)

There are many possibilities in Crystal's case, it would be nice if we (or authorities, of course) could take a completely fresh look at the circumstances from start to finish and investigate these different theories.

As far as natural death goes, I'm not sure that medical professionals in the 1980s were as aware of some of these kinda freak incidents as they are now. I'm pretty sure the public was unaware of so many of these dangerous health issues in younger people.

Anyway, it's a sad case all around. Crystal never realized her dream, ended up dancing in a club down by the airport, died mysteriously, and due to the autopsy errors, her family could have even placed the wrong person's ashes at the Hollywood sign.

It took quite a few years for me to realize how prevalent natural death in young people can be.

Seems like there have been quite a few high school athletes who have died suddently. The Russian figure skater, Sergei Grinkov, was only 28 when he died from an undiagnosed heart ailment.

Some young ladies die unexpected from complications of gynecological problems, such as botched abortions, undiagnosed eptopic pregnancies, blood clots from the birth control pill, etc.

In the 90s, I think the diet drug Fen Phen was linked to heart related death in young women. There's also the possiblity of Crystal being sick and having a fatal reaction to medication.

Back to possible murder, remember the Canadian young lady whose landlord was paying her rent (I think she may have been an escort and he was either infatuated with her or was a client, I can't remember). He was running out of money and, unknown to her, he had stopped paying her rent. She was soon to be evicted. I think part of the motive for murder was jealosy and the fact that he didn't want her to find out she was losing her apartment. (It's been a long time, I'm not sure on the details.)

There are many possibilities in Crystal's case, it would be nice if we (or authorities, of course) could take a completely fresh look at the circumstances from start to finish and investigate these different theories.

As far as natural death goes, I'm not sure that medical professionals in the 1980s were as aware of some of these kinda freak incidents as they are now. I'm pretty sure the public was unaware of so many of these dangerous health issues in younger people.

Anyway, it's a sad case all around. Crystal never realized her dream, ended up dancing in a club down by the airport, died mysteriously, and due to the autopsy errors, her family could have even placed the wrong person's ashes at the Hollywood sign.

I agree. Since Ms. Spencer was working as an exotic dancer ,
she probably didn't have medical insurance and she probably wasn't seeing a physician regularly.I watched an episode ofof the television program Dr. G: Medical Examiner where a young woman was overcome and died of a herpes related viral infection in about a week or so.
Not saying that that's what happened here, but that woman was also relatively healthy and collapsed and died within a week or so of contracting the infection.

Honestly if Mr. Anton and the family really believe that Ms. Spencer's death was anything more than an accident, they can petition to have the body exhumed and re-examined by a private medical examiner. However this is this is very costly to do and may not provide them with the answers that they're looking for in this case.

I just re-watched the segment the other day and while I hate to sound cynical, I've begun to wonder if Mr. Anton, a screenwriter with limited success, saw Ms. Spencer's death as something that he could capitalize upon. I wouldn't be surprised if he actually had gathered some "notes"and had put them together in the form of a screenplay. Given the number of straight to DVD movie productions that are out, there might be a good market for this story.

I agree. Since Ms. Spencer was working as an exotic dancer ,
she probably didn't have medical insurance and she probably wasn't seeing a physician regularly.I watched an episode ofof the television program Dr. G: Medical Examiner where a young woman was overcome and died of a herpes related viral infection in about a week or so.
Not saying that that's what happened here, but that woman was also relatively healthy and collapsed and died within a week or so of contracting the infection.

Honestly if Mr. Anton and the family really believe that Ms. Spencer's death was anything more than an accident, they can petition to have the body exhumed and re-examined by a private medical examiner. However this is this is very costly to do and may not provide them with the answers that they're looking for in this case.

I just re-watched the segment the other day and while I hate to sound cynical, I've begun to wonder if Mr. Anton, a screenwriter with limited success, saw Ms. Spencer's death as something that he could capitalize upon. I wouldn't be surprised if he actually had gathered some "notes"and had put them together in the form of a screenplay. Given the number of straight to DVD movie productions that are out, there might be a good market for this story.

Oh yeah! That Dr.G case.... wasn't that the one where the dying woman kept insisting that she kissed a man who bit her and she was convinced that the bite caused her illness, eventually killing her? That was a weird one.

Unfortunately, in Crystal's case, they can't exhume her body. She was cremated and her family scattered her ashes near the Hollywood sign.

Oh yeah! That Dr.G case.... wasn't that the one where the dying woman kept insisting that she kissed a man who bit her and she was convinced that the bite caused her illness, eventually killing her? That was a weird one.

Unfortunately, in Crystal's case, they can't exhume her body. She was cremated and her family scattered her ashes near the Hollywood sign.

You are correct.
They did show them doing that at the end of the segment.
The sad part is, I just saw that segment two days ago. Might be a sign of early onset Alzheimer's... LOL

Yes,the woman did claim the bite on the lip is what caused her illness.and you are also correct in the fact that it was so odd. A person with a normal immune system probably wouldn't have gotten that sick in that short a period of time. But not knowing the general health of that person either, there's no way of knowing how sick she already was.

Maybe she had become friendly (not necessarily romantically or sexually) with some faux agent or someone supposedly affiliated with the entertainment business. Maybe that person went to check on her and things got out of hand.


I've always thought that was a possibility, besides a stalker or a friend. The house was in disarray, but it wasn't mentioned if Spencer kept it like that. No mention, as far as I know, if there had been forcible entry into the residence.

UM doesn't discuss Anton Kline's claim about the photos on Spencer's camera (this is from the 1992 L.A. Times Article). Kline and Spencer took photos of themselves the last time they visited; later, when the film was developed, there was a photograph of a man in Spencer's home later on the film. Who was he and what was his connection to Spencer? The last person she was in (phone) contact with was her sister.

While it's possible Spencer died from a medical condition, the fact that she was found nude from the waist down, tangled up with the phone cord, and and the neighbors reported repeated screams seems a tad off for most illnesses. The L.A. Times article states that Jet Taylor notified the apartment manager about the screams the following day, but the manager did nothing to check up on it either, so I tend to believe that they were at least being honest about the noise, if not their reasons for not calling police at the time. Kitty Genovese syndrome.

Just a guess, and it's probably already been posted on here, but the bloating process and overall decomposition of Spencer's body may have made it difficult to determine her actual proportions.

I've always thought that was a possibility, besides a stalker or a friend. The house was in disarray, but it wasn't mentioned if Spencer kept it like that. No mention, as far as I know, if there had been forcible entry into the residence.

UM doesn't discuss Anton Kline's claim about the photos on Spencer's camera (this is from the 1992 L.A. Times Article). Kline and Spencer took photos of themselves the last time they visited; later, when the film was developed, there was a photograph of a man in Spencer's home later on the film. Who was he and what was his connection to Spencer? The last person she was in (phone) contact with was her sister.

While it's possible Spencer died from a medical condition, the fact that she was found nude from the waist down, tangled up with the phone cord, and and the neighbors reported repeated screams seems a tad off for most illnesses. The L.A. Times article states that Jet Taylor notified the apartment manager about the screams the following day, but the manager did nothing to check up on it either, so I tend to believe that they were at least being honest about the noise, if not their reasons for not calling police at the time. Kitty Genovese syndrome.

Just a guess, and it's probably already been posted on here, but the bloating process and overall decomposition of Spencer's body may have made it difficult to determine her actual proportions.

Do you have a link to this article in the Los Angeles Times?

1) A single photo of this man? Without knowing where and when that was taken it could be anyone. And I'm surprised Mr. Kline didn't publicize the picture and ask asked for information identifying the person.

2) The simplest way to find out whether or not Ms. Spencer was having an additional relationship outside of the one with Mr. Kline would have been to check her LUD's (Local Usage Details,it's a phone call record) and look for a pattern of calls to certain numbers. Not only could the police have done that but Ms. Spencer's family could have done this as well.

3) It's actually very likely that Ms. Spencer died of a medical condition or illness, as the last person that reported seeing her alive said that she was ill at the time. Since again, she was an exotic dance rand didn't likely have medical insurance nor a regularly attending physician, it's possible that to save money she simply didn'attempt seek medical attention until it was too late.

4) Most murders, outside of war zones, have four major causes: shooting, stabbing, bludgeoning or strangulation. Apparently, none of the first three ( which would have been obvious) were detected during her autopsy.while strangulation could have been the cause, there was no indication that took place.
Once the most likely causes of murder have been removed from the scenario, murder begins to look as being the least likely reason for Ms. Spencer's untimely death.

5) IMHO,the screaming that came from the apartment that was allegedly heard by the neighbors, has always been a wildcard for me as it's never clear if they overemphasized it for publicity, or just fabricated it having happened for the same reason.

Since Ms. Spencer's family had her remains cremated (which if they truly thought this was a suspicious death was a very poor idea) it's very unlikely that this murder will ever be solved.

I don't believe Anton was involved. He struggled to hard to keep the case open and the investigation going. Just not consistent with someone who killed her.

Do you have a link to this article in the Los Angeles Times?
3) It's actually very likely that Ms. Spencer died of a medical condition or illness, as the last person that reported seeing her alive said that she was ill at the time. Since again, she was an exotic dance rand didn't likely have medical insurance nor a regularly attending physician, it's possible that to save money she simply didn'attempt seek medical attention until it was too late.


The last person to see her alive said she had a cold, thats hardly a life threatening illness. I don't see that as pointing to the fact that she died of an illness. I think there is little evidence of that at all in fact.

4) Most murders, outside of war zones, have four major causes: shooting, stabbing, bludgeoning or strangulation. Apparently, none of the first three ( which would have been obvious) were detected during her autopsy.while strangulation could have been the cause, there was no indication that took place.
Once the most likely causes of murder have been removed from the scenario, murder begins to look as being the least likely reason for Ms. Spencer's untimely death.

Two points:

1. If there was some kind of police cover up or incompetence, then it throws everything we know about the alleged autopsy out the window. There could have been fifty stab wounds on this girl and no one would know except those who actually found her. They had her weight and height wrong on the autopsy which says something was foul there.

2. If the body was in an advanced state of decomposition, then something like asphyxiation would be hard to ascertain.

The last person to see her alive said she had a cold, thats hardly a life threatening illness. I don't see that as pointing to the fact that she died of an illness. I think there is little evidence of that at all in fact.

Mr. Kline is not and was not a medical doctor. What may have seemed to have been a "cold" to him could have been viral pneumonia, tuberculosis, a strep infection or any of a number of assorted ailments.

And again, since Ms. Spencer was working as an exotic dancer it's highly unlikely that she had medical insurance or a regular physician.Not knowing if she smoked, drank or used drugs regularly, there's no way of knowing her general health.

Is she'd had any number of illnesses that could've compromised her immune system, then a minor ailment could have quickly gotten out of hand, especially if she didn't seek medical treatment for it.

[QUOTE=cocytus]4) Most murders, outside of war zones, have four major causes: shooting, stabbing, bludgeoning or strangulation. Apparently, none of the first three ( which would have been obvious) were detected during her autopsy.while strangulation could have been the cause, there was no indication that took place.
Once the most likely causes of murder have been removed from the scenario, murder begins to look as being the least likely reason for Ms. Spencer's untimely death.
QUOTE]

Two points:

1. If there was some kind of police cover up or incompetence, then it throws everything we know about the alleged autopsy out the window. There could have been fifty stab wounds on this girl and no one would know except those who actually found her. They had her weight and height wrong on the autopsy which says something was foul there.

2. If the body was in an advanced state of decomposition, then something like asphyxiation would be hard to ascertain.

Two responses:

1) Why would there be a police cover-up? At no point during the segment or anything that I've read since regarding this case has anyone claimed that Ms. Spencer was involved in drugs, organized crime or any type of illegal activity. Since no one is also claiming that she knew any public figures or politicians, what would there be to cover-up?

Actually the autopsy wasn't "alleged";an autopsy did occur.and if there were 50 stab wounds on the body they would be visible in the photos taken at the crime scene. there would also be blood all over the apartment.

And given the number of homicides,suicides and unattended deaths that took place in Los Angeles at that time, mistakes were probably commonplace. In fact, unless someone scrutinized the autopsy reports, it's very likely that numerous people were buried by their families or in paupers graves without the true cause of death being determined.

2) Perhaps you need to reread my posting. I did specify that strangulation would be difficult if not impossible to determine on her body if it were decomposed.Unless of course the hyoid bone in the throat had been crushed.

Mr. Kline is not and was not a medical doctor. What may have seemed to have been a "cold" to him could have been viral pneumonia, tuberculosis, a strep infection or any of a number of assorted ailments.

And again, since Ms. Spencer was working as an exotic dancer it's highly unlikely that she had medical insurance or a regular physician.Not knowing if she smoked, drank or used drugs regularly, there's no way of knowing her general health.

Is she'd had any number of illnesses that could've compromised her immune system, then a minor ailment could have quickly gotten out of hand, especially if she didn't seek medical treatment for it.

I still think you are reaching though. You don't neccessarily have to be a medical doctor to know when someone is seriously sick.

I'm not saying its impossible that she died of an illness, but all we have to support the illness theory is secondhand information from Anton saying he thought she had a cold the last time he talked to her, there is a big jump from that to a young woman having a life threatening illness that causes her to scream like she is being tortured and ultimately kills her.

As for why there would have been a cover up, I've read rumors that a cop might have killed her. who knows? Or it may not have been a cover up, it may have just been genuine incompetence.

I mean, I doubt those neighbors were making up the stories about the screams, they had no reason in the world to. In fact they had more reason not to tell, it would have been pretty humiliating to admit you heard someone screaming like that and didn't call the cops.

I believe she was murdered.

I still think you are reaching though. You don't neccessarily have to be a medical doctor to know when someone is seriously sick.

I'm not saying its impossible that she died of an illness, but all we have to support the illness theory is secondhand information from Anton saying he thought she had a cold the last time he talked to her, there is a big jump from that to a young woman having a life threatening illness that causes her to scream like she is being tortured and ultimately kills her.

As for why there would have been a cover up, I've read rumors that a cop might have killed her. who knows? Or it may not have been a cover up, it may have just been genuine incompetence.

I mean, I doubt those neighbors were making up the stories about the screams, they had no reason in the world to. In fact they had more reason not to tell, it would have been pretty humiliating to admit you heard someone screaming like that and didn't call the cops.

I believe she was murdered.

Hmmm....

1) Imagine the entire segment running w/o the "screams heard by the neighbors (and apparently nobody else) and knowing that she was ill. Would the most logically explanation have been the illness as a cause of death if no external trauma nor drug usage was found?

Sepsis and strep can kill a healthy adult in as little as 24 hours. Those are only two of the many illnesses out there that can do as such and they are both remarkably easy to contract.

2) Add the screams back to the segment. Is she was screaming,wouldn't an cerebral hemorrhage or an aneurysm account for that possibility? And if she was screaming like she was being tortured, wouldn't that have been loud,long and piercing screams over an extended period of time? One scream or a few screams would hardly constitute "torture."

3) Why would a cop have killed her? Wouldn't a cop have known that rather than leaving her on the floor, that dragging her into the bedroom and putting her in bed or into the bathroom and placing her in a tub of water would have made the death look like an accident or illness? Or even have removed the body from the scene and dumped it in either a rundown building or a wilderness area to make it's discovery even harder?

Frankly, even today, a missing exotic dancer is hardly going to result in a citywide manhunt. Unless she had powerful friends. And it doesn't appear that was the case w/ Ms. Spencer.

4) The neighbors were obviously people that were looking for work in the entertainment industry. While most people wouldn't dream of using the attention would be garnered from television appearance to enhance their careers, some people in Hollywood will and have. Why would it be a stretch to believe that they wouldn't say or do anything that would help them achieve fame?

And given the fact that screaming could have meant something that could present a danger to THEM as well, wouldn't they have called the police just to be sure?

People die from enlarged hearts,rampant infections, strokes,etc. every minute of every day. Since her tox screen didn't show or alcohol (which would have been my first guess for the unattended death of a young person) that she died of an illness or medical condition doesn't seem to be stretch at all.

I think you're trying awfully hard to latch onto the illness theory, but there's no proof of it. Someone violently ill wouldn't be screaming like she was being tortured and she also probably wouldn't be naked from the waist down. The types of illnesses you're talking about that take the lives of young people do so suddenly, not over several hours. As for sepsis, there would be some sign of vomiting in the house, either in the carpet or the bathroom.

There is a theory about the police cover-up which was actually posted by a poster claiming to be Crystal's brother several pages ago and involved two of Crystal's waitress friends. A newspaper article also parades this theory.

Hmmm....

4) The neighbors were obviously people that were looking for work in the entertainment industry. While most people wouldn't dream of using the attention would be garnered from television appearance to enhance their careers, some people in Hollywood will and have. Why would it be a stretch to believe that they wouldn't say or do anything that would help them achieve fame?


I just don't think this holds much water. For people trying to make it in the entertainment industry there are far more practical and effective avenues to this than appearing on a crime oriented TV show as a witness to a possible murder. It just doesn't make much sense. And I don't recall from the segment any mention of the background of these people which proved they were trying to make it in the entertainment industry or what they were trying to do. Like I said, if anything this would be bad publicity to admit you heard screams like that but did nothing to help it.

Like I said, these things you are proposing are not impossible, but you seem to be taking some pretty giant leaps of faith and are pretty quick to dismiss theories that are just as rational.

Police corruption and incompetence is rampant in this country. It hardly matters that Crystal Spencer was an exotic dancer. Anytime anyone with connections to law enforcement or any type of authority does something underhanded be it murder or otherwise, there is a chance of a police cover up.

And asking why a cop would murder her......... a cop would murder her for the same reasons anyone would murder anyone else. Cops can be sociopaths to.

I just think you are to quick to dismiss murder, and your arguments are based on things that are at best reaches.

Young seemingly healthy people suddenly keeling over from an illness is certainly not unheard of, but its not all that common either.

I just don't think this holds much water. For people trying to make it in the entertainment industry there are far more practical and effective avenues to this than appearing on a crime oriented TV show as a witness to a possible murder. It just doesn't make much sense. And I don't recall from the segment any mention of the background of these people which proved they were trying to make it in the entertainment industry or what they were trying to do. Like I said, if anything this would be bad publicity to admit you heard screams like that but did nothing to help it.

Like I said, these things you are proposing are not impossible, but you seem to be taking some pretty giant leaps of faith and are pretty quick to dismiss theories that are just as rational.

Police corruption and incompetence is rampant in this country. It hardly matters that Crystal Spencer was an exotic dancer. Anytime anyone with connections to law enforcement or any type of authority does something underhanded be it murder or otherwise, there is a chance of a police cover up.

And asking why a cop would murder her......... a cop would murder her for the same reasons anyone would murder anyone else. Cops can be sociopaths to.

I just think you are to quick to dismiss murder, and your arguments are based on things that are at best reaches.

Young seemingly healthy people suddenly keeling over from an illness is certainly not unheard of, but its not all that common either.

Really?
"Far more effective and practical avenues?" What are they?
People who go to Hollywood looking for fame are usually dreamers who don't have a plan. The ones that do have a plan (or plans) usually don't have well-formed,coherent plans.
As a result, there are far more people looking for work than there are roles or jobs. Ms. Spencer was an example of that.

And while her neighbors may not have been in the entertainment industry (which is doubtful given the amounts of hairspray and makeup used by both the woman AND the man that were interviewed) they certainly knew that this interview w/ UM could lead to other things. Also there's no such thing as bad publicity. Ask George Bush about that.

I'm not dismissing any RATIONAL theories. I just haven't seen that many proposed. I'll say this yet again: W/O knowing Crystal Spencer's overall health at the time, it would be impossible to rule out illness as the cause of her death.

Irrational theories would include:
1) Some type of coverup, as there was nothing shown in Ms. Spencer's background that required a cover up.
2) A murder having occurred when the majority of the evidence points away from murder being the cause of death.
3) Proposing that "young,seeming healthy" people can't quickly die from an illness or previously undetected medical condition.

Ms. Spencer's family had her remains cremated. If they truly believed that she was murdered, why would they destroy the only evidence of that murder?

I'm suspicous if the screaming ever happened at all. Susan Akin, one ear-witness, was in LA also pursuing an acting career. We all agree that it was weird about Susan and her husband not reporting the screams because they were afraid to get involved, yet they had no problem being interviewed on national TV.

Honestly, I wonder if Susan Akin was just an attention whore who heard nothing the night Crystal died, but once there was a big commotion, decided to interject herself into the scene so she could get on TV. That would explain why she and her husband listened to screams for hours but never reported it (out of fear), yet they weren't concerned at all about identifying themselves on tv. They should have been more afraid of being ID'd by a killer seeing them on TV than by calling 911 to report suspicious screams.

Yep, I just quoted myself. :D

I'm suspicious of the Akins motives for not being involved at the most crucial point of the case, but then directly involved when the TV cameras showed up.

Irrational theories would include:
1) Some type of coverup, as there was nothing shown in Ms. Spencer's background that required a cover up.

So newspaper articles pointing to a corrupt police officer who was known to use strippers/prostitutes for him and his cronies qualifies as irrational, but you blowing up a cold to a possible serious and fatal illness is perfectly plausible?

2) A murder having occurred when the majority of the evidence points away from murder being the cause of death.

How does it point away? The screams of someone being tortured? The body nude from the waist down? The location of the body when it was found? The profession of the young woman? The way I see it, all the evidence points TOWARD a murder and the only thing that points toward something else is stuff you've made up in your mind after hearing that she had a cold.

3) Proposing that "young,seeming healthy" people can't quickly die from an illness or previously undetected medical condition.

No one said they can't, but there's absolutely NO evidence of that in this case. There is, however, rumblings of torturous screams, a stripper nude from the waist down found in a remote area of her home.

So newspaper articles pointing to a corrupt police officer who was known to use strippers/prostitutes for him and his cronies qualifies as irrational, but you blowing up a cold to a possible serious and fatal illness is perfectly plausible?



How does it point away? The screams of someone being tortured? The body nude from the waist down? The location of the body when it was found? The profession of the young woman? The way I see it, all the evidence points TOWARD a murder and the only thing that points toward something else is stuff you've made up in your mind after hearing that she had a cold.



No one said they can't, but there's absolutely NO evidence of that in this case. There is, however, rumblings of torturous screams, a stripper nude from the waist down found in a remote area of her home.

Sigh...
Another trip into the shrubbery maze.

1) I almost hate to ask, but do you have Internet links to the news stories that you are stating show a correlation between Ms. Spencer's demise and this officer/these officers? If so, I'd like to see them.

And you are aware of the SIS and Rampart scandals in LA,correct? Those officers were arrested and their careers were destroyed for acts that did NOT include allegations of murder. Do you honestly think that in that type of climate, an officer accused of being involved in the murder of a stripper wouldn't have a) Been prosecuted or b) at least fired.

2) Again, Ms. Spencer was adult entertainer, who probably had no insurance. She could have had hepatitis, HIV/AIDS,TB and a host of other ailments at the time of her death.

Any of the above ailments could have had immediate medical effects upon her health and could have lead to a rapid decline and death.There's no way of knowing w/o looking into her medical background.

3) The neighbors are the source of information of the "screams of being tortured" (their words). Given that most people would have called the police (if for no other reason than to assume that what they were hearing was something that could affect them) if they heard prolonged screaming, the credibility of the neighbors has taken a beating.

4) If the "evidence points TOWARD" murder (your words) why:

a) Isn't there an open investigation into this alleged crime?
b) Didn't the segment mention this "investigation?"
3) (Most importantly) did the family cremate the body and destroy the only evidence of this "crime?"

Really, I put a little bit of thought into what I post on here. Would that others would do the same.

The article is linked in this thread. I'm certainly not going to go through 11 pages again just to find it for you when you could have easily read it before making your claims. The officer's name is Horace McKenna. Do a search on him and you'll see all the seedy things he was involved in prior to his murder. If you're naive enough to believe that cover-ups don't happen, there's nothing more I can say.

You don't put thought into what's already been said/proven. You put thought into assumptions. You'd rather believe that witnesses who've gone public with what they heard first-hand are lying in order to prop up your ASSUMPTION that she (a) had no insurance and (b) had some kind of disease that killed her. There is absolutely nothing to back up your claim, whereas there are witnesses to back up mine.

And just FYI, people dying of TB, hepatitis, etc. generally don't have the strength or lung capacity to scream out as if they're being tortured just prior to their death.

The article is linked in this thread. I'm certainly not going to go through 11 pages again just to find it for you when you could have easily read it before making your claims. The officer's name is Horace McKenna. Do a search on him and you'll see all the seedy things he was involved in prior to his murder. If you're naive enough to believe that cover-ups don't happen, there's nothing more I can say.

You don't put thought into what's already been said/proven. You put thought into assumptions. You'd rather believe that witnesses who've gone public with what they heard first-hand are lying in order to prop up your ASSUMPTION that she (a) had no insurance and (b) had some kind of disease that killed her. There is absolutely nothing to back up your claim, whereas there are witnesses to back up mine.

And just FYI, people dying of TB, hepatitis, etc. generally don't have the strength or lung capacity to scream out as if they're being tortured just prior to their death.

1) You made the extraordinary claim. You provide the proof. That's how it works. If this McKenna is actively under investigation for Ms. Spencer death (something that UM didn't even say in their segment) then you need to provide the proof of that.

2) There are no "witnesses." Not even the idiots that heard the screaming say they heard any yelling or other voices. Nor did they say the heard (nor saw) anybody arrive or leave.
Therefore they "witnessed" nothing.

3) I have first-aid training and was a first responder at industrial plants for many years until recently. There are many illnesses and ailments that can cause a great deal of pain in a very short period of time.

Not knowing Ms. Spencer's overall health, it would be hard to say if she was afflicted by any of them.

4) If the "boyfriend" hadn't raise a row and the neighbors didn't come in late w/ the screaming "story", this would have been classified as an "unknown death." As it was, the death was changed to "unexplained" which is a catchall for any death that isn't a homicide/suicide/accident but can't be explained.

Since there isn't a BODY, if this was a "murder" as you are claiming, then there will never be a solution to this case unless there's a confession. If the family had really thought that this was a murder would they have cremated and scattered the only evidence?

1) You made the extraordinary claim. You provide the proof. That's how it works. If this McKenna is actively under investigation for Ms. Spencer death (something that UM didn't even say in their segment) then you need to provide the proof of that.



cocytus in the other poster's defense it seems like you haven't read any of the info.
Horace McKenna can't be under investigation because McKenna himself was murdered in 1989 under suspicous circumstances.
With the types of shady activities he was involved in this was hardly a suprise.

cocytus in the other poster's defense it seems like you haven't read any of the info.
Horace McKenna can't be under investigation because McKenna himself was murdered in 1989 under suspicous circumstances.
With the types of shady activities he was involved in this was hardly a suprise.

Hmm...so a dead man is being blamed for a "non-murder" that there's no evidence linking him to?
Wow...that was an unnecessary trip into the shrubbery maze.

Just watched this case. She was definitely murdered.

My guess is that it was by some crooked cop who didn't want Crystal babbling about his less than exemplary activities at night, which explains the atrocious autopsy, less than satisfactory "investigation," and subsequent cover up really.

And for the record, I think her boyfriend, Anton, was the most honest and believable person I have ever seen on Unsolved MYsteries.

And for the record, I think her boyfriend, Anton, was the most honest and believable person I have ever seen on Unsolved MYsteries.

I thought he was creepy.

I thought he was creepy.

For what? Getting Crystal a new house, introducing her to the arts, and leading her towards the right path?

For what? Getting Crystal a new house, introducing her to the arts, and leading her towards the right path?

I have to agree with Cars. I've said before that he seemed to fancy himself Henry Higgins to Crystal's Eliza Doolittle.

And "right path"? Crystal took that job to support herself. Maybe she didn't like it, maybe she even hated it--but she didn't take it because she was morally bankrupt in some way. She wasn't a lost soul that needed saving.

Really, I put a little bit of thought into what I post on here. Would that others would do the same.

Completely OT, but I am extremely glad cocytus finally quit posting here.

Completely OT, but I am extremely glad cocytus finally quit posting here.


You should read some of the BS he posted in this thread. I cannot believe that I actually took him seriously a few times.

For what? Getting Crystal a new house, introducing her to the arts, and leading her towards the right path?

I've always wondered what the hell a stripper would see in Anton, since he seemed like such a square (for lack of a better term). But then I remembered she was trying to break into Hollywood and was probably trying to establish connections since he was a writer.

Completely OT, but I am extremely glad cocytus finally quit posting here.

You and I both.

You and I both.

Oh you two...for shame. cocytusmind was a splendind poster. He/She had that special combination of haughty arrogance, willful ignorance of what others were saying, and sheer conspiratorial whackadooness in spades. I could always count on seeing 10 posts every day, each with that username as the last replier, and know I was in for a good time.


EDITED TO ADD: The first time I saw it I wondered what would be the impetus for adopting Dante's 9th Circle of Hell as a username. Maybe its because I always felt like I was in Cocytus while reading his/her posts...

EDITED TO ADD: The first time I saw it I wondered what would be the impetus for adopting Dante's 9th Circle of Hell as a username. Maybe its because I always felt like I was in Cocytus while reading his/her posts...

It was undoubtedly certainly fitting. Maybe he/she was attempting to warn us. I can respect that--that's fair. :lol:

Regarding the cause of death, I think it is easy to overthink things in a case like this. Put simply, in this case we have:

1) A girl found dead in a remote part of her apartment with telephone cord wrapped around her body. She was nude from the waist down and initial observations showed "probably sexual assault."

2) Multiple witnesses who heard blood-curdling screams coming from the general area of her apartment immediately prior the estimated time of death. And to those posters who question their credibility on the basis that "most people would have called the police" in that situation, empirical research has shown that the opposite is true (see the Kitty Genovese effect, as another poster mentioned).

3) An autopsy report which lists the body as being 7 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier than the victim's actual measurements. I could believe human error causing ONE of those measurements to be off, but for both, I think it is more likely that there was an accidental body switch. These are not uncommon, especially in a city like L.A in the late 80s. I believe that this puts the credibility of the autopsy in serious doubt because in my opinion, the finding of "undetermined" as the cause of Crystal's death was found through an autopsy performed on a different body.

All of this points to foul play. As for who committed it, unfortunately Crystal's line of work means that the suspect pool is unworkably large. Was Anton involved? Probably not. It is odd that he was OK not being in contact with her for a week, but I think it is more likely that he presented their relationship as being more serious than it actually was.

As for the theory about the ex-cop's involvement, it is an interesting theory to say the least. However, if she did buy 'laced cocaine' and that is what killed her, surely this would have been found in her apartment.

In my opinion everything points to foul play, but unfortunately we'll never know since the body was cremated.

This has been one of the most baffling mysteries on UM. Up there with AJ Breaux and Katherine Korzelius.
I agree with the above poster. Let's not over think this. The facts laid out show foul play was involved. I have read the LA Times article on her death and I can see how the Mckeena suspect could have been involved. It's obviously someone she knew. I have always wondered how some M.E.s can make a determination on cause of death with just bones, and others can not make a determination with a body, even decomposed. Just my 2 cents. :confused:

I've always wondered what the hell a stripper would see in Anton, since he seemed like such a square (for lack of a better term). But then I remembered she was trying to break into Hollywood and was probably trying to establish connections since he was a writer.

One could say cynically that maybe he was just a trick to her paying her stuff while she playacted being his girlfriend, like many strippers do when they find a willing pigeon. However, let's remember that she met Anton outside of the club. He didn't know she was stripping, and she took great lengths to hide it from him. So it's possible that she was compartimenting her life : good girl girlfriend during the day, stripper during the night. The easy money there can be addictive.

That doesn't necessarily preclude her milking Anton for her own gains. Most gold-diggers ain't strippers, after all. Besides, a stripper "generously" accepting to be payed a new house by some square nice guy like Anton is a tad suspect to me. Anton doesn't seem the type to have the clout to be a sugar daddy.

Personally, I believe she was murdered & the investigation was botched. I believe in her advanced stages of decomposition, any chance they had of determining the cause of death (most likely strangulation) were lost.

Also, let this story serve as a lesson. When you hear frightening blood curdling screams, CALL THE DAMN COPS!!! I believe the witnesses' story and as has been pointed out in this thread, research shows that most people wouldn't call in that situation, but here's a perfect story to outline why you should.

Personally, I believe she was murdered & the investigation was botched. I believe in her advanced stages of decomposition, any chance they had of determining the cause of death (most likely strangulation) were lost.

Also, let this story serve as a lesson. When you hear frightening blood curdling screams, CALL THE DAMN COPS!!! I believe the witnesses' story and as has been pointed out in this thread, research shows that most people wouldn't call in that situation, but here's a perfect story to outline why you should.

exactly

Sometimes I wonder if why her case hasn't been solved or dug deeper into is because she was an exotic dancer. Sometimes when cases deal with women who lead promiscuous/exotic lifestyles (namely prostitutes and strippers), their deaths aren't pursued as much or at all as oppose to a child or someone in power. Nevertheless, I think if her neighbors cared enough, they would've called the police right when they heard the screams. She possibly could've been saved. Reminds me of what happened to Kitty Genovese, she was being stabbed yet no one reacted to help her or get help right away. Gotta love the "bystander effect" and the diffusion of responsibility.

I watched this Case on the forbidden website yesterday for the first time in ages. Very sad case. The older Boyfriend seemed to genuinely care about her. I honestly don't know whether it was murder or not. Those neighbours are idiots! :mad:

I forgot that I had commented on this case awhile ago. I also wanted to add that the physical description of the body found in Crystal's apartment supposedly did not match that of Crystal, according to what was read in the autopsy report. If that is true, then who is the decedent and where is Crystal's body?

As for the noises being "rhythmic," it sounds like a sickening possibility that she was sexually assaulted, which would also make sense because of being found nude from the waist down.

I'm sorry, but I still am angry about the neighbors. If you imagine cigarette burning and things, CALL THE POLICE!

A few months ago, I was by myself in a chapel when I heard screaming outside. I rushed outside but no one was in the vicinity. The area was deserted for the holidays (college campus), but the sound of the scream was so startling and definitely not playful that I RAN to see what was going on. It would have been safer for me to alert the authorities, of course, but I can't help being reminded of this case. If I heard horrendous yelling, no matter how afraid I was, I could not even imagine letting it go.
The main thing that somewhat redeems the neighbors is that they actually did report the screams later and feel guilty. It could have been worse: they could have never mentioned anything at all.

I forgot that I had commented on this case awhile ago. I also wanted to add that the physical description of the body found in Crystal's apartment supposedly did not match that of Crystal, according to what was read in the autopsy report. If that is true, then who is the decedent and where is Crystal's body?
Officials claim is was just a typographical error and that it really was her body, as identified by two sets of fingerprints.

Even if so, how could you possibly make such errors? Somebody was not doing his job well that day.

As for the noises being "rhythmic," it sounds like a sickening possibility that she was sexually assaulted, which would also make sense because of being found nude from the waist down.

I'm sorry, but I still am angry about the neighbors. If you imagine cigarette burning and things, CALL THE POLICE!

A few months ago, I was by myself in a chapel when I heard screaming outside. I rushed outside but no one was in the vicinity. The area was deserted for the holidays (college campus), but the sound of the scream was so startling and definitely not playful that I RAN to see what was going on. It would have been safer for me to alert the authorities, of course, but I can't help being reminded of this case. If I heard horrendous yelling, no matter how afraid I was, I could not even imagine letting it go.
The main thing that somewhat redeems the neighbors is that they actually did report the screams later and feel guilty. It could have been worse: they could have never mentioned anything at all.

I guess that's better than nothing. But like you said, it's hard to understand their logic the night they heard the screams. I can understand not wanting to get involved if you hear your neighbors arguing. But if you hear screams that you yourself say sound like torture, how can you NOT call the police? Say the police ARE called and they investigate. If they break down Crystal's door, are they ordered to tell whoever is in there that the couple from Apartment 517 called us about you? I highly doubt it.

I wish I could find some articles on this case because I'd like to know if any other neighbors heard the screams. That looked like a fairly large apartment complex.

Agreed. I'd like to take back what I said; the word "redeem" is too strong for them. I'm glad they reported it later, but it's still so infuriating they didn't even try to help someone who they knew was in desperate need.

Yeah. I never understood why they didn't call the police. I get that sometimes you can be fearful for your own life - but still, you're in an apartment, behind a locked door and unknown to whomever might be in the other apartment. They're not going to directly know it's you who's calling and what does it matter when the cops show up anyway?

But even if they talked themselves into not calling that night, why not in the morning? I read they told the super of the apartment about the screams and asked him to check on her? Was this the day after or when they started smelling a body decomposing? I just don't get why they didn't at least check on her the next day, when it would have been evident the killer, if there was one, would be long gone. Knock on the door, go tell the super and if no one answers, call the police to make sure she's not actually still dying.

Still, it shouldn't have come to that. They should have called the police the second they heard screams that obviously were not normal.

Which takes me to my next point - did anyone else hear screams? You'd think if Jet and Miss America's hearing screams, someone else in that apartment had to have as well, right?!? Weird that no one else reported anything.

Just a weird story all around.

2) Again, Ms. Spencer was adult entertainer, who probably had no insurance. She could have had hepatitis, HIV/AIDS,TB and a host of other ailments at the time of her death.




You know, AIDS crossed my mind when I read that there was no signs of pretty much anything, whether medical or intentional. This was in the 1980s, '88 to be exact, and were they THAT familiar with AIDS back then to spot it in an autopsy? I'm not too familiar with AIDS, except that I know most people die from a ravaged immune system that leads to other potentially devastating diseases.

She had a cold. We know that. How sick was she? How long had she had a cold? Maybe she was far more unhealthy than we could ever know. I mean, I guess if she had full blown AIDS, and had unprotected sex with her boyfriend, the odds of him contracting it are extremely high, but who knows what that relationship was like - whether they had protected sex or not.

AIDS was first reported in 1981, so, seven years before she died. In 1982, the CDC started using the term AIDS. So, I'm guessing by 1988 AIDS was pretty well known by then (Rock Hudson had already died of it), but if you're not specifically looking for it, as could be the case for a woman back then (since it was still commonly believed to be a gay-only disease), it could go and probably would go undetected, since you have to specifically test for it (I think).

So, that could have led to something more severe. Maybe she had pneumocystis pneumonia or some other infection that would have gone undetected in an autopsy? I don't know if that's possible, but with her lifestyle, the fact she very well could have been a prostitute, certainly leads to the possibility that she contracted AIDS or some other STD that ultimately led to poor health. Then again, it's entirely possible that isn't the case.

But I don't get why no one else in the apartment head screams. I said as much in my last reply and it seems odd to me that only this couple, would hear screaming and the fact they didn't call the police, didn't seem to find issue with it until it became clear she had died, maybe does point to fame-induced story telling. Someone mentioned the possibility and it's as good of one as any - they really didn't hear the screams and instead, decided to concoct a story of their own to maybe push their own agenda.

Ultimately, I don't think we'll ever know what happened to Crystal. If she didn't die of natural causes, it's a shame that her killer will never be brought to justice. If she in fact was screaming bloody murder that night, it's a shame that couple did nothing to help her. If she wasn't murdered and they really didn't hear screams, it's a shame they're using this story, or used it, I should say, to further their own careers.

But no matter how you look at it, it's just a damn shame all around.

But I don't get why no one else in the apartment head screams. I said as much in my last reply and it seems odd to me that only this couple, would hear screaming and the fact they didn't call the police, didn't seem to find issue with it until it became clear she had died, maybe does point to fame-induced story telling. Someone mentioned the possibility and it's as good of one as any - they really didn't hear the screams and instead, decided to concoct a story of their own to maybe push their own agenda.


The broadcast never specified how big of an aprtment building Crystal lived in, it might have been a brownstone with only four or five apartments. In which case this other couple may have been the only ones home in the building besides Crystal. Or the other apartments may have been unoccupied at the time, or others could have heard the screams and simply didn't come forward. There is really no way of knowing unless we knew more about the apartment building, the broadcast never specified if there was a live in landlord, superintendent, or door man, and I'm betting there was not. I myself live in a house like apartment building with four apartments two on each of the two stories, and on many occasions I have often been the only one home when the other apartments were unoccupied between renters or else out of town.

So given these reasons I'm not certain no one else hearing the screams is signifigant.

I've never bought the theory of these people making up the stories about the screams, like I said its at best grasping at straws as its far from being the easiest or best avenue to fame.

The broadcast never specified how big of an aprtment building Crystal lived in, it might have been a brownstone with only four or five apartments. In which case this other couple may have been the only ones home in the building besides Crystal. Or the other apartments may have been unoccupied at the time, or others could have heard the screams and simply didn't come forward. There is really no way of knowing unless we knew more about the apartment building, the broadcast never specified if there was a live in landlord, superintendent, or door man, and I'm betting there was not. I myself live in a house like apartment building with four apartments two on each of the two stories, and on many occasions I have often been the only one home when the other apartments were unoccupied between renters or else out of town.

So given these reasons I'm not certain no one else hearing the screams is signifigant.

I've never bought the theory of these people making up the stories about the screams, like I said its at best grasping at straws as its far from being the easiest or best avenue to fame.

True. I was trying to look for the address of the complex, in hopes it would have been in the news stories from the day her body was found, but all I could find was that it was located in Burbank.

As for the super/landlord/whatever, I thought I read Jet & his wife had spoken with the super (or whatever) the next day about the screams and told him to check on her.

I highly doubt AIDS was the case here - she would have been sick for awhile, and I'm sure it would have been noticeable to everyone.

I highly doubt AIDS was the case here - she would have been sick for awhile, and I'm sure it would have been noticeable to everyone.

I agree, even at the time neither AIDS nor Hepatitis does kill suddenly and violently, like a stroke or aneurym does. She would have become weak and her face would have full of Kaposi's sydrome spots, and she would have died like a sudden onset of cancer.

Could have been an brain aneurym, which can kill suddenly and without warning. It could also be a toxic, very violent allergic reaction to medications, mixed with drugs and/or alcohol.

Yeah, I doubt AIDS was the cause, either, but the fact this case is so perplexing leads you to turnover every stone, you know?

Due to the cloudy nature of the investigation, its difficult to say with any degree of certainty what happened to Crystal Spencer. And sadly the truth may never be known barring a miracle or a confession, since the body is gone and any trail would be extremely cold.

But its always been my gut feeling Crystal was a victim of foul play and the investigation was botched, primarily due to the unfortunate fact that it was a week before the body was found and the poor condition that it was in. Had it been discovered right after her death, this would be a whole different case. Even if this murder had taken place a few years later when their were forensic advancements a lot could have been determined even from a week old corpse.

The primary reasons I think Crystal was murdered:

1. I believe the neighbors were telling the truth about the screams, like I said the idea they made it up to get on TV has never made any sense to me, if people want attention coming forward and admitting that you made no effort to help someone screaming is the last kind you would want. In my opinion thats grasping at straws and has no real basis.

2. Young people suddenly dropping dead of a disease is not very common, its not unheard of but its hardly an every day thing either. and if Crystal was starting to feel sick why did she make no effort at all to call for help or seek medical attention? As Anton pointed out, she was a young woman with a cold last time he saw her. Not a terminally ill person. There just isn't any information to support it.

3. The nature of Crystal's work caused her to run into a lot of shady characters, so the list of possible suspects would probably be quite large.

I believe she was murdered. Although there is one thing that I never could figure out is why her family had her remains cremated. It seems they would want them preserved for any future investigation. My guess is it was simply naive and hasty behaviour that they may have felt compelled to do due to the condition of the remains. Its ashame.

Any update here?

Strange she was only 5' and 100 lbs. yet the autopsy said she was 5'7" and 140 lbs.!!

In the segment, they mention that the family requested to see her body but LE said it was in no condition to be viewed. Doesnt the family need to see it to identify it and don't they have the right to see the body? Just curious.. I'm sure LE has seen worse and they let the families view the bodies to identify them.

I also find it disturbing that she was naked from the waist down in a corner with the telephone cord wrapped around her. That's a huge red flag.

I also am surprised by the prostitution comments, as being an erotic dancer does not mean she was having sex with customers for money. It sounded like, from what her friend said, that she felt degraded enough to be stripping.

Even if not for the screams, the sickness angle seems hard to swallow because of the condition in which she was found.

I also find it disturbing that she was naked from the waist down in a corner with the telephone cord wrapped around her. That's a huge red flag.

I also am surprised by the prostitution comments, as being an erotic dancer does not mean she was having sex with customers for money. It sounded like, from what her friend said, that she felt degraded enough to be stripping.

Even if not for the screams, the sickness angle seems hard to swallow because of the condition in which she was found.

~ Agreed. It seems like she was just doing what she had to do. I don't get how the reports claim she 5'7 140 lbs. Was it a mistake was this really Crystal? Did DNA confirm it was her? I still have NO idea why her neigbours ignored her crys for help. Even though I despise all my neighbours (apartment living sucks) I would def call the cops if I heard something like that!!!!

~ Agreed. It seems like she was just doing what she had to do. I don't get how the reports claim she 5'7 140 lbs. Was it a mistake was this really Crystal? Did DNA confirm it was her? I still have NO idea why her neigbours ignored her crys for help. Even though I despise all my neighbours (apartment living sucks) I would def call the cops if I heard something like that!!!!
Fingerprints confirmed it was her. But what a terrible error, just wow. How do you get that wrong by so much?

I fault the husband more than the wife because he sounds like the one who really prevented her from calling and was adamantly against it. I don't know my neighbors and I would have called the police no matter how scared I was. I did not like my recent downstairs neighbors at all but my roommate and I both called the police when we heard their windows get shattered one night. It turns out they did it themselves because they're drunken idiots but hey, we tried to help! :lol:

I also find it disturbing that she was naked from the waist down in a corner with the telephone cord wrapped around her. That's a huge red flag.

I also am surprised by the prostitution comments, as being an erotic dancer does not mean she was having sex with customers for money. It sounded like, from what her friend said, that she felt degraded enough to be stripping.

Even if not for the screams, the sickness angle seems hard to swallow because of the condition in which she was found.

This came seemed to be a "perfect storm" of people missing the mark. The neighbors not responding to the screams, some typos or other errors at the coroner's office...just a lot of things. I do not understand the family not allowed to see body.

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-02-24/news/mn-2042_1_spencer-case

Has this article been posted here before?

After reading it, I'm inclined to think that perhaps what happened was a combination of theories. She might have been going through withdrawal, she might have been engaging in rough sex - a combination of factors which could have led to an accidental murder. Heck even regular ol' vanilla sex could have been too much for her system to cope with if it was already under the severe stress of quitting something cold turkey.

Thanks for the article. Kind of gave me the creeps since I'm currently living in Japan and I used to live near LAX.

I think this was foul play. If she was so sick that she was on the floor and dying of illness, I think she would have called way before succumbing to that actual illness and despite decay, the autopsy would have showed what that illness was. Does anyone else find the decay of the body really weird? One week and it's that decayed? The body wasn't in the sun or anything so that just seems really odd to me that it was that hard to recognize so quickly.

The clerical errors: Someone screwed up big time. 7 inches + 40 pounds off? How on Earth? I can understand why her friends believe the wrong body was viewed. I don't agree with the theory that she's simply in Japan and it was a staged body. This case will probably never be solved and it's really sad. I think this is so much more than a woman getting ill.

I definitely have no problem believing that the wrong body was autopsied or the ME report on the wrong body was attributed to Crystal.

I just finished the book about Kevin Ives and Don Henry's train deaths and Fahmy Malak, the ME in their case, often went so far as to testify in court about wrong bodies and wrong tissue samples. I can see where this could happen in Crystal's case due to incompetence or overly heavy caseloads.

It's interesting that the article mentions another neighbor who described what he thought sounded like someone who was "violently ill", and I don't remember if UM mentioned this other neighbor. If Crystal was in fact sick and trying to call her mother, perhaps she did die of some freak medical condition? This could be just like the Natasha Jennings case where someone out of the blue dies and there seems to be no apparent explanation or reason.

Given the clues that the sounds from Crystal's apartment continued for something like an hour... in rhythmic intervals... and that she was found partially clothed with the telephone cord wrapped around her... have we discussed the possibility that she may have been ACCIDENTALLY killed during some sexual asphyxia action?

As funny as that sounds, that is actually a possibility. Heh, it happened to David Carradine (just search him on Wikipedia).

But there is something wrong for sure. First off, why did it take over a week to find her? If she was in a relationship, didn't the boyfriend think it was a little odd that she never called? When I was in a relationship with my wife, we talked on the phone every single day and would see each other at least every other day. We definitely wouldn't go for a week without talking or seeing each other.

Second, why the heck wouldn't the people call 911? They could have just anonymously called just to say that they are hearing screams and they think the police should check it out.

I think it is possible that if she was getting tortured by someone, the the reason they didn't find evidence is because for one, her body was said to be badly decomposed (which I also find a little strange as it had only been a week). Also forensic technology was not nearly as advanced in 1988 as it is now.

Unfortunately, since her body was cremated, it cannot be re-examined with the benefits of modern technology. The fact that she was cremated probably eliminated all evidence that could really say whether or not she was murdered.

But then again, it could very well be that she did accidentally kill herself through some erotic asphyxiation... just like David Carradine.

I just rewatched this case, and a thought just occurred to me.

According to the bf, the autopsy report of Crystal Spencer said that she was 5' 7 and a well nourished 140 lbs. But in reality, Crystal was 5' and barely 100 lbs.

I've also thought it to be strange that the body they found to be severely decayed after only 1 week. Strangely, no one seems to think that this is a big deal, but I think it is.

Is it possible that Crystal Spencer was abducted (and subsequently killed somewhere else) and then a dead female body was planted so no one would think to find the real Crystal Spencer? If so, this could explain why the autopsy report said that Crystal was so much larger than she really was and it would explain why the body was so decayed.

I think it is also worth pointing out that according to the UM episode, the parents did not view Crystal's body because of the amount of decay. So it is entirely possible, that this was not the body of Crystal Spencer.

I also wonder if the boyfriend had something to do with it. Because I still find it odd that a week would pass before anyone would find Crystal; he didn't think it was weird that he didn't see her at all for over a week?

I just rewatched this case, and a thought just occurred to me.

According to the bf, the autopsy report of Crystal Spencer said that she was 5' 7 and a well nourished 140 lbs. But in reality, Crystal was 5' and barely 100 lbs.

I've also thought it to be strange that the body they found to be severely decayed after only 1 week. Strangely, no one seems to think that this is a big deal, but I think it is.

Is it possible that Crystal Spencer was abducted (and subsequently killed somewhere else) and then a dead female body was planted so no one would think to find the real Crystal Spencer? If so, this could explain why the autopsy report said that Crystal was so much larger than she really was and it would explain why the body was so decayed.

I think it is also worth pointing out that according to the UM episode, the parents did not view Crystal's body because of the amount of decay. So it is entirely possible, that this was not the body of Crystal Spencer.

I also wonder if the boyfriend had something to do with it. Because I still find it odd that a week would pass before anyone would find Crystal; he didn't think it was weird that he didn't see her at all for over a week?

I don't think she was abducted. In my opinion I honestly feel that the coronor's office messed up with their paperwork and her body was handled improperly. This would explain everything from the weight gain to the height gain and the stage of decomposition it was in.

If they didn't view the body because of decomposition, that would be another mess up but on the families part. Basically she was cremated without a positive ID. Parents didn't look at her and the coroners office more than likely messed up on the paperwork. Look no one really looked at how the coroners office handled protocol on bodies and evidence until the O.J. Simpson case.

Also in the segment it said that she was waiting for a job to go to Asia but no one had called her about when it would start. Her boyfriend new this, so it wouldn't seem strange if she got a call and had to leave right away and forget to call him. I don't think he had anything to do with it.

I realize no one can say with certainty about what happened. I also understand that the coroner's office could have made a mistake, as human error is always a possibility.

But how do you mistake someone who is 5' for being 5' 7? How do you mistake someone who is at most, 100 lbs for someone who is 140 lbs and with the additional description of being "well nourished"? And if her body wasn't that badly decayed, what made them think it was decayed to the point where it was not appropriate for viewing even for family?

It'd be one thing if the coroner's said she was 5' 2 and 110 lbs; these are within reason, but to be off by 7 inches and then off by 50 - 60 lbs is pretty extreme.

It could also be that the bf made up the story about her having to go to Asia just so he'd have an alibi incase he was asked why he didn't think it was suspicious that he didn't hear from her at all for so long. And even if this was the reason he thought that, didn't he think she'd call him when she got settled in Asia? Asia is not like some black hole where once you go, you can't make contact with people in the U.S. (being from Asia myself, I know).

Basically I think the idea that the coroner's office simply made a mistake brings up too many mysteries of its own. I still think it is entirely possible she was abducted/killed and then another that had already been dead for a while (to explain the decay) was planted and that person's body was 5' 7 and 140 lbs.

Although I do highly agree of one thing: the family made a huge mistake of cremating the body. I understanding why some people would want to cremate a body instead of giving a traditional burial, but when someone dies of mysterious circumstances, it really hinders any chance for second opinions.

I understand what you're saying, but I still disagree with you. It's not a matter of mistaking the wrong body. It could be a simple case of the wrong name being put on the official death certificate. It still doesn't negate the fact that the chain of evidence was horribly broken when her body was allowed to be cremated without (to my knowledge) a positive ID.

The whole boyfriend thing makes zero sense. Why would her boyfriend abduct her and place a body the wrong physical attributes to his girlfriend? Yes it would be easy to get a hold of him in Asia. Here's the problem, a week isn't really a whole lot of time to not see someone or hear from someone. She was sick, she was waiting to hear about a job, he had work, probably a few meetings with his work, etc. Where I work now, I can go 2 weeks without seeing my boss. It's not that hard to believe that with everything she was going through and what he had in his personal life that they didn't communicate. It's not like they lived with each other.

Well just so you know, I'm not 100% sold on my theory either. I am just wondering if that has ever even occurred to anyone to look into. It does appear that the bf did not think it was her body as he is the one who brought up the discrepancies and said it wasn't her body based on the autopsy report.

Although it is entirely possible that the coroner's office just accidentally put her name on another deceased person who had those measurements; that's a lot more believable than than the coroners actually measuring her at an additional 7 inches of height and an additional 50 lbs or so.

Let's just say that I think both scenarios are within the realm of possibility. Going off of my theory, you ask why would the bf want to kill her... I can't say that I have a good answer for you. But then again, I do know that people commit crimes and murder all the time, and I don't understand those either... but they happen.

Why would he want to replace her body? So that it can look like she died and because the body was badly decayed, it would make identification tough. If the police think they already have her body, then they won't look for the person they think she is.

BTW, as for you going a week or 2 without seeing your boss is entirely different and not a good example. Do you actually go out of your way to see your boss or try to get a hold of him or her? When two people are in a relationship, especially when the relationship is fairly young, the two are smitten. Heck, I couldn't wait to hear from my wife every day and if I didn't hear from her in a few hours, it would seem like an eternity. There would be no way I'd go for over a week without trying to call her or see her. I think anyone who has ever been in a relationship would agree that this is strange.

Of course, I'm not saying that this all happened, I'm just saying that this is a possibility. The bottom line is that I agree with you: she shouldn't have been cremated without a positive ID, and in my opinion, she shouldn't have been cremated at all considering she died of mysterious circumstances. If she had a proper burial, there is a chance that she could have been exhumed during our present time and with the benefits of modern technology, we may have been able to find things that they didn't back then.

It is also entirely possible that she didn't just have a cold, but had something much worse, but only thought it was a cold (a lot of deadly illnesses start off with cold or flu-like symptoms) and she succumbed to that and whatever the disease was might have accelerated the decay process.

Just out of curiosity, do you think she was murdered or died of natural causes?

Just a couple quick observations on medical goof ups from my personal experience....

When my son was born in 87, the hospital put matching name tags on me and the baby. In the nursery, the boys were in blue bassinets and girls were in pink ones. The baby's name, mom's name, blood type, and whether they were bottle fed or nursed (along with other info) was on a color coded card attached to the top of the bassinet.

The day after he was born, the nurse brought him into my room. In a pink bassinet. She tried to hand me the baby, but looking at the pink bassinet, I already knew it wasn't my kid. I said, "I had a boy!" Turns out, my son had been dropped off in some other woman's room who didn't notice she was given the wrong baby.

In the late 90s, some gynecologist's office I had never been to started calling me to collect on unpaid medical bills. I went around and around on phone calls with these people explaining that I had never been their patient. They gave me some identifying info over the phone and I insisted that was not my info. Finally, they mailed me this other woman's entire medical file to PROVE I was the patient. This was after HIPAA laws were in effect. The file contained everything about her... her name, address, date of birth, social security number, medical insurance info, employment info, and all of her private gynecological ailments were there. The only thing I had in common with the woman was a name. We weren't even the same race. Multiple major mistakes by that doctor's office and they never accepted that they were wrong.

Just think about all the stories we hear about doctors amputating the wrong limbs, or removing the wrong lung, or medicating the wrong patient, releasing the wrong body to a funeral home for burial, etc.

And a few years ago, I remember a church van was involved in a fatal accident. For weeks, one family kept vigil at their injured daughter's bedside, while the other family buried their daughter, who'd died in the wreck. Eventually, the family realized the young woman they were visiting had been mis-identified and their daughter was actually dead, and buried under the other girl's name.

I'm not sure what the hesitancy is to at least consider the possibility that the theory I proposed could have happened. I mean, much stranger things have happened.

But here are the facts assuming everything is accurate:

1. The body was measured to be significantly larger than Crystal Spencer actually was even with the additional note that she was "well nourished". I.e. someone who is very filled out. You simply don't get that from someone who is 5' and less than 100 lbs.

2. The body was badly decayed after only a week, so much so that the family wasn't even allowed to view the body.

3. Because the family was not able to view the body, no positive ID was made, leading to the possibility that this was not the body of Spencer.

4. Even the BF thought it couldn't be the body of Spencer. And that makes sense. Let's say someone you're close to dies and you know that person is 6' and 200 lbs. But then when the body is described, people tell you that it was a 6' 7" male who weighs 260 lbs.... would you think that was the person you know, or would you think that is obviously someone else? I think it is safe to say that most people would assume the latter.

5. If the neighbors are being truthful, then they heard screams as if someone was being tortured or beaten on the night that Spencer would have died.

6. I think the bf is a suspect because he went for over a week without hearing from her. It also said when "she" was found, the phone had also been off the hook... did he not ever try to call her in over a week? Didn't he think it was suspicious that every time he called the phone would be busy? Wouldn't he think after a day or two of trying to get a hold of her that something was seriously wrong?

elg0rd0 says he can go 2 weeks without seeing his boss.. and I understand that, but is he in a relationship with his boss? I would be willing to be that if he decided to call his boss he could get a hold of him. People in a relationship aren't simply people working together. Anyone who has ever been in a relationship knows that when relationships are young, the two people are very smitten. There is simply no way I am buying he didn't hear from her in over a week and didn't think anything of it. Heck, when I was dating my wife and she and I were both in college at separate universities at the same time, and both of us also worked on top of that, we still managed to talk every single night and still saw each other just about every day. If we had gone all day without talking or seeing each other at all, we felt that was unacceptable.

So anyway, I think all the evidence put together gives my theory a possibility and certainly should not be simply dismissed. Like I said, even if my theory is true, much stranger things have happened on UM.

And I don't think it is that strange that someone abducted her for whatever reason, killed her, and replaced her body with another body that had been dead for a while to explain the decay and this would explain the massive discrepancy in the size of the body. It would also explain why the neighbors heard screams. It's not that far fetched.

And I realize that it could be as simple as the coroners made a mistake. I haven't ruled that out. Unfortunately since the body was cremated, we'll never really know.

Without going through the entire thread, was I the only one that had red flags going off when an exotic dancer is said to be going 'do some work in Asia'? Always thought maybe it turned out she was supposed to be doing prostitution in Asia.

I think this was a murder, to answer the (very old) question of the OP.

Just for me, the the murderer switching bodies scenario is too far fetched. I know it's definitely been known to happen tho. I just think in this case it's easier to explain the discrepancy with accidentally switched paperwork at the ME's office. Wasn't this in Los Angeles? They have notoriously high caseloads and have been known to make similar mistakes.

IIRC, "well nourished" is just medical jargon used on autopsy reports. It isn't meant to describe the decedent as obese, overweight, very large, etc. I think it just means the person had access to decent food. They weren't found to be starved in some criminal way, they didn't suffer from medical neglect or condition like anorexia... things like that which would be important in discovering a cause of death. Even if the paperwork was for Crystal, at her very petite height and weight, she would have been medically described as "well nourished".

I'm not sure what the hesitancy is to at least consider the possibility that the theory I proposed could have happened. I mean, much stranger things have happened.

But here are the facts assuming everything is accurate:

1. The body was measured to be significantly larger than Crystal Spencer actually was even with the additional note that she was "well nourished". I.e. someone who is very filled out. You simply don't get that from someone who is 5' and less than 100 lbs.

2. The body was badly decayed after only a week, so much so that the family wasn't even allowed to view the body.

3. Because the family was not able to view the body, no positive ID was made, leading to the possibility that this was not the body of Spencer.

4. Even the BF thought it couldn't be the body of Spencer. And that makes sense. Let's say someone you're close to dies and you know that person is 6' and 200 lbs. But then when the body is described, people tell you that it was a 6' 7" male who weighs 260 lbs.... would you think that was the person you know, or would you think that is obviously someone else? I think it is safe to say that most people would assume the latter.

5. If the neighbors are being truthful, then they heard screams as if someone was being tortured or beaten on the night that Spencer would have died.

6. I think the bf is a suspect because he went for over a week without hearing from her. It also said when "she" was found, the phone had also been off the hook... did he not ever try to call her in over a week? Didn't he think it was suspicious that every time he called the phone would be busy? Wouldn't he think after a day or two of trying to get a hold of her that something was seriously wrong?

elg0rd0 says he can go 2 weeks without seeing his boss.. and I understand that, but is he in a relationship with his boss? I would be willing to be that if he decided to call his boss he could get a hold of him. People in a relationship aren't simply people working together. Anyone who has ever been in a relationship knows that when relationships are young, the two people are very smitten. There is simply no way I am buying he didn't hear from her in over a week and didn't think anything of it. Heck, when I was dating my wife and she and I were both in college at separate universities at the same time, and both of us also worked on top of that, we still managed to talk every single night and still saw each other just about every day. If we had gone all day without talking or seeing each other at all, we felt that was unacceptable.

So anyway, I think all the evidence put together gives my theory a possibility and certainly should not be simply dismissed. Like I said, even if my theory is true, much stranger things have happened on UM.

And I don't think it is that strange that someone abducted her for whatever reason, killed her, and replaced her body with another body that had been dead for a while to explain the decay and this would explain the massive discrepancy in the size of the body. It would also explain why the neighbors heard screams. It's not that far fetched.

And I realize that it could be as simple as the coroners made a mistake. I haven't ruled that out. Unfortunately since the body was cremated, we'll never really know.

If she was murdered, the killer would have obviously known who she was. How he/she made a bone head move to switch bodies and give red flags that the body miraculously grew 7" is beyond me. To me that's why it doesn't work. I also don't believe the boyfriend is a suspect because why would out of so many discrepancies. The lapd not investigate this further? No one, to my knowledge, has ever questioned the coroners office or the detectives as to the discrepancy. Maybe they did and for legal purposes, like a lawsuit don't want to comment at the moment? It wouldn't be the first time. Again no I am not in a relationship with my boss. But the boyfriend wasn't living with her either and in what appears to be a casual relationship. 2 weeks is not a super long amount of time to not see each other. I went a whole month with no contact with my ex-fiance simply because she got busy with her life and I had finals in college. It happens.

I got around to reading the article a few posts back. There is no way that the body was switched. She was ID'd using finger print analysis and only 2 other bodies matched her description were positively identified. Interesting the article said that Crystal had an FBI file on her and that they had surveillance on her. From what I gathered from the article, I personally feel that she died of an unspecified illness. Her ex-boyfriend has gone through great lengths to investigate the case himself and I feel maybe he's holding on to much.

I got around to reading the article a few posts back. There is no way that the body was switched. She was ID'd using finger print analysis and only 2 other bodies matched her description were positively identified. Interesting the article said that Crystal had an FBI file on her and that they had surveillance on her. From what I gathered from the article, I personally feel that she died of an unspecified illness. Her ex-boyfriend has gone through great lengths to investigate the case himself and I feel maybe he's holding on to much.

This is exactly what I think happened. Wonder why the FBI had a file on her though.

This is exactly what I think happened. Wonder why the FBI had a file on her though.

From what I gather. They had her under surveillance for going to an underground casino that was run by a regular at the club she danced at. According to the article the gentlemen was a regular and rumors went around that he was the owner of the club. Crystal's boyfriend eventually got her FBI file but according to the article had 7 pages missing.

I got around to reading the article a few posts back. There is no way that the body was switched. She was ID'd using finger print analysis and only 2 other bodies matched her description were positively identified.

That definitely does support the idea that the coroner's office simply make a mistake with her file by either placing her name on the wrong file or just typos. I guess I could argue that it doesn't give me much confidence that they ID'd her fingerprints if these are the same people who measured someone who is 5' to be 5' 7... but I think with the additional information that the only other two people who matched her description were positively ID'd, the case is strong that it was just human error.

I do agree that she could very well have died by some unspecified illness. I know a lot of deadly diseases start off with cold or flu-like symptoms but then turn into something much worse. Sometimes doctors don't even catch these diseases until its too late because they also think it is just a cold at first.

"Just before her death, Spencer was preparing for three months' work as a nightclub "hostess girl" in Japan, a trip she feared, according to a former waitress friend. Yet she was determined to go."

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-02-24/news/mn-2042_1_spencer-case

After considering what SageSlowdive posted, does anyone think Crystal could have committed suicide somehow? I don't know if I think it's especially likely, but there was that commentary from her friend on that segment that Crystal was so despondent about her inability to break out as an actress and her dancing job that it would make her sporadically weep. That sounds like someone having a very, very hard time. According to the article, her own mother characterized her as an "unstable personality."

After considering what SageSlowdive posted, does anyone think Crystal could have committed suicide somehow? I don't know if I think it's especially likely, but there was that commentary from her friend on that segment that Crystal was so despondent about her inability to break out as an actress and her dancing job that it would make her sporadically weep. That sounds like someone having a very, very hard time. According to the article, her own mother characterized her as an "unstable personality."

I think suicide is definitely more believable than her being murdered. I wonder how she accomplished it, if she did in fact commit suicide.

I used to have a GF with that hair style, but after she got it, I RAN, I RAN so FAR AWAY! ;)

I happen to think Chandler Bing was able to pull it off

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr02/2013/3/12/12/enhanced-buzz-20770-1363107052-21.jpg

I don't buy into the C.O.D. being an "unspecified illness". That's just a cop-out and an excuse for law enforcement to not to do their job properly. The autopsy report and credibility of the ME has already come into question as it is.

I also think there may have been a bit much read into what Crystal was wearing when she was found. Many women sleep only in tee shirts.

I also think there may have been a bit much read into what Crystal was wearing when she was found. Many women sleep only in tee shirts.

Yep. I think a lot of the "mysterious" circumstances about her death are overblown. Every little "mysterious" bit could easily be explained if she indeed did die from some unknown illness. The screams could have been because she was in pain and had no idea what was causing them, the telephone being off the hook could have been her trying to summon help, and her being found half nude could have simply been because that's how she liked to sleep. There's a little tidbit in the LA Times article about how she also liked to keep her phone off the hook a lot, so again that might mean absolutely nothing. The same article also goes on to say that Crystal called her sister and wanted her mother's phone number because she felt really sick, but her sister wouldn't give it to her because she thought she was "exaggerating". The mother apparently was staying with other people and told Crystal's sister to only give the number out in case of an emergency because she didn't want people blowing up the family's phone bill.

Screaming from being in pain over an illness is one thing. But the screams were described as the sounds of torture. They were so loud that they woke the neighbors on the floor below. I agree with everything else you said but the level of screaming has always bugged me. I don't think anyone is going to scream that loud from being sick unless they completely lost their mind and had a panic attack, I don't know.

And I'm convinced those downstairs neighbors (who have taken a ton of heat for not calling police when they heard the screams) could not have been the only ones who didn't do anything. That was a big apartment building and surely others who had apartments closer to her, like on her own floor, would easily hear the screaming. They didn't do anything either which might have been the difference between Crystal living or dying.

what if the screams didn't happen and were just made up by the couple? I mean its not like anybody could verify their account and it is still not illegal what they did which was not reporting the crime. Morally wrong, but not criminally wrong.

Imagine if there were no screams at all, than it is easy to assume that she may have died due to an undiagnosed medical condition. The only alternate theory where she was killed might have been if she were poisoned. You can be poisined and have the traces leave your system after a few days. (breaking bad) Maybe that lead her to scream? It could have also been suicide.

BTW is it not weird how the boyfriend refers to japan has the orient???

BTW is it not weird how the boyfriend refers to japan has the orient???

no

And I'm convinced those downstairs neighbors (who have taken a ton of heat for not calling police when they heard the screams) could not have been the only ones who didn't do anything. That was a big apartment building and surely others who had apartments closer to her, like on her own floor, would easily hear the screaming. They didn't do anything either which might have been the difference between Crystal living or dying.

Well, it's tough to say. They might not have been home. I work nights, sleep days and use a fan to (hopefully) drown out most of the noise. At least none of the other neighbors had the stupidity to go on national television and state that they didn't help because they "didn't want to get involved."

what if the screams didn't happen and were just made up by the couple? I mean its not like anybody could verify their account and it is still not illegal what they did which was not reporting the crime. Morally wrong, but not criminally wrong.

Imagine if there were no screams at all, than it is easy to assume that she may have died due to an undiagnosed medical condition. The only alternate theory where she was killed might have been if she were poisoned. You can be poisined and have the traces leave your system after a few days. (breaking bad) Maybe that lead her to scream? It could have also been suicide.

BTW is it not weird how the boyfriend refers to japan has the orient???

I think the couple were aspiring actors, so it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that they made (or exaggerated) it all up to garner attention.

I'm not dismissing any RATIONAL theories. I just haven't seen that many proposed. I'll say this yet again: W/O knowing Crystal Spencer's overall health at the time, it would be impossible to rule out illness as the cause of her death.

Irrational theories would include:
1) Some type of coverup, as there was nothing shown in Ms. Spencer's background that required a cover up.
2) A murder having occurred when the majority of the evidence points away from murder being the cause of death.
3) Proposing that "young,seeming healthy" people can't quickly die from an illness or previously undetected medical condition.

Ms. Spencer's family had her remains cremated. If they truly believed that she was murdered, why would they destroy the only evidence of that murder?

If you want to talk about rational theories, you'll have to first accept that illness as the COD is not a rational way of looking at it. There is no evidence to suggest it was the cause of death. The most simple and convenient theory is not always the most plausible one, not even close.

And exactly which evidence points the COD away from murder? As for Spencer's family having her body cremated, why would they keep it around? It was badly decomposed, autopsies were already performed. There was no reason not to dispose of it.

If you want to talk about rational theories, you'll have to first accept that illness as the COD is not a rational way of looking at it. There is no evidence to suggest it was the cause of death. The most simple and convenient theory is not always the most plausible one, not even close.

And exactly which evidence points the COD away from murder? As for Spencer's family having her body cremated, why would they keep it around? It was badly decomposed, autopsies were already performed. There was no reason not to dispose of it.

coctyus hasn't posted here in quite some time.

Screaming from being in pain over an illness is one thing. But the screams were described as the sounds of torture. They were so loud that they woke the neighbors on the floor below. I agree with everything else you said but the level of screaming has always bugged me. I don't think anyone is going to scream that loud from being sick unless they completely lost their mind and had a panic attack, I don't know.

And I'm convinced those downstairs neighbors (who have taken a ton of heat for not calling police when they heard the screams) could not have been the only ones who didn't do anything. That was a big apartment building and surely others who had apartments closer to her, like on her own floor, would easily hear the screaming. They didn't do anything either which might have been the difference between Crystal living or dying.


Yeah, that beacon of bravery Jet Taylor and his girlfriend described the sound as somebody being burned with cigarettes.

coctyus hasn't posted here in quite some time.

Yeah. Homeboy had a hissy fit when he was told to chill out a few years ago in another thread and said he wasn't coming back, so I guess he's kept his word thus far.

BTW is it not weird how the boyfriend refers to japan has the orient???

Back then, people referred to that part of the world as " the orient" and things and people as "oriental".

In the US, the terminology has changed, but I noticed that in England they still use the word "oriental".

I'd have to see the boyfriend's interview again. Maybe he was describing it that way to make her trip to Japan seem more dramatic than it really was?

Back then, people referred to that part of the world as " the orient" and things and people as "oriental".

In the US, the terminology has changed, but I noticed that in England they still use the word "oriental".

I'd have to see the boyfriend's interview again. Maybe he was describing it that way to make her trip to Japan seem more dramatic than it really was?

I actually think it was RS that used the "orient" term, not Anton Kline.

Screaming from being in pain over an illness is one thing. But the screams were described as the sounds of torture. They were so loud that they woke the neighbors on the floor below. I agree with everything else you said but the level of screaming has always bugged me. I don't think anyone is going to scream that loud from being sick unless they completely lost their mind and had a panic attack, I don't know.

And I'm convinced those downstairs neighbors (who have taken a ton of heat for not calling police when they heard the screams) could not have been the only ones who didn't do anything. That was a big apartment building and surely others who had apartments closer to her, like on her own floor, would easily hear the screaming. They didn't do anything either which might have been the difference between Crystal living or dying.


I SO agree with you on that. I know sometimes people are scared to get involved in those types of circumstances, but there has to be other neighbors in that building that heard something besides that couple. It makes no sense that THEY were the only ones to have heard "shrieking sounds" that night. There had to have been an intruder that night; maybe Crystal called someone she knew to bring her medicine or something? and they had an argument?

this case always puzzled me.. this one and the Leppert case.

Besides the Taylor's, there actually was another witness in the building. According to the other neighbor, they heard sounds that started earlier in the day and got progessively worse and started to sound "like someone really violently ill." I don't think there's as much mystery as a lot of other people to this case. Anton Kline says she was sick when he last saw her. Crystal called her sister saying she thought she had the flu (on the night she died). She also told her sister over the phone that she felt so bad she could barely make it to the bathroom. A neighbor described sounds of someone who became violently ill during the night. And I think the Taylor's were definitely exaggerating in what they described. If they honestly thought someone was being "tortured", they would have called the police. I dont' buy the "don't get involved in California" line. I think without the bungling at the coroner's office, this case would be a clear cut death from the result of an unknown illness.

And I'm sorry, but Anton Kline strikes me as someone a few cards short of a deck. According to the LA Time article he repeatedly accused the investigator on the case of being involved in the Japanese mafia. :rolleyes:

I just saw this case today (again) and here are my thoughts:

Anton Kline dint file a missing persons report or talk to her for a week??? hard to believe that and very suspicious...



Yeah, thats a very interesting point ! Usually when a woman with a boyfriend or husband disappears its usually noticed in hours at the very least and maybe a couple of days at the most. One possibility is that maybe Crystal & Anton had a lovers tiff and he didnt make it public as it would have made him a suspect even if he was innocent




i believe that maybe she had a crazy obsessed guy from her stripper job who was after her for sex, maybe he went to her place she answered the door and forced his way in to her apartment in way in which theres no evidence to the police of a forced entry (no broken door knobs, or anything showing a forced entry)



When I read this I thought of the Jamie Santos case .....eerie stuff

Nah, I don't think Anton Kline is particularly suspicious or had anything to do with it myself. I've always had the feeling he made more of the relationship than Crystal did. I could see them not being in contact for a week without that being out of the ordinary.

Nah, I don't think Anton Kline is particularly suspicious or had anything to do with it myself. I've always had the feeling he made more of the relationship than Crystal did. I could see them not being in contact for a week without that being out of the ordinary.

I would say that there is still something that doesnt quite add up about the exact nature of their relationship because the segment gave the impression they were in love and he was taking her to art galleries etc , to me that would mean their relationship was going steady and people at that stage of relationship I would expect to be in regular contact with each other , if they could go a week without contacting each other and it wasnt a big deal then their relationship was probably not what it was made to look like in the segment .... Anton is most likely innocent but I do wonder about what the truth of their relationship was like if they could go upto a week with no contact and alarm bells werent raised earlier ?

he most likely paid her to go on dates and such, which is what a lot of men do. I doubt it was a real relationship.

As much as Crystal's friend interviewed in the segment gets a bad rep for seeming "high," I found her believable when she said that Crystal cared about Anton a lot and was really worried he would find out about her job. It is possible, though, like Meg said that Anton took the relationship a lot more seriously. It's just a theory, but it's possible Anton was looking to settle down (he was considerably older than Crystal) and Crystal was not thinking anything of the sort and didn't take the relationship between them as seriously as he did.

One thought about illness: If she was "violently ill" wouldn't there have been some signs of that around her apartment? If she was so ill that she couldn't make it to the bathroom (and it was enough to kill her) I would think there would have been vomit or whatnot around her home. I never really considered the illness theory, but I suppose "choking and moaning" would fit in here. It's possible she made a dive for the telephone and that's how it ended up with the cord wrapped around her. However, neighbors also heard "terrible screams and shrills" sounding like torture, which raises some red flags for me. I agree with dynoguy that the screaming reported just strikes me as something far more disturbing than someone in their apartment dying from illness.

I just watched Crystal's segment.

The deputy district attorney says that there could have been a paperwork mishap at the coroner's office. He says that they have Crystal's fingerprints from two different agencies, so that "eliminates any possibility of the coroners autopsying the wrong remains".

I don't understand how that can be. So they have her fingerprints from two different agencies, whoever they are. How does that mean that the right body was autopsied? That just means that they had possession of Crystal's body and identified it with fingerprints, and probably performed an autopsy on her. It doesn't mean her body stayed with the correct paperwork.

IF her body wasn't with the correct paperwork, then they could have easily "autopsied the wrong body" and released the wrong body to the family to be cremated.

Another question... The deputy district attorney admits that her body was in such an advanced state of decomposition that they could not find a cause of death.

Yet it was in good enough condition that they could identify her by her fingerprints? I dunno about that. Getting prints from a decomposed body is a tedious and time consuming process and I don't even think the technology was available in 1988. And if it was, would an overworked coroners office bother to go to all that trouble to try ID yet another Jane Doe?

So..... they couldn't identify a cause of death, but she was in good enough condition that they could get fingerprints? The part of the autopsy report that UM showed even described a discoloration (which I am assuming means on part of her skin or an internal organ). If she was in that good of condition, they should be able to see stab wounds, ligature or strangulation marks, burst appendix, ectopic pregnancy, etc, etc. Were the lungs in good enough condition to check for suffocation? I admit not every possible cause of death would be obvious, but they must have had enough to work with to be able to rule out certain things, at least.

I wonder if they did that and UM just didn't give us those details. In that little snippet of the autopsy report, all I could see was where they might have said something about no signs of trauma. Here's what the part they showed us says. Anything in () is my own guesses, BTW, "cutaneous" means referring to the skin:

(g)reenish-blue disco(loration?)
Small fly larvae up
(t)he facial region o
d well-nourished,
length. No cutan(eous)
of trauma can be d(etermined?)
opsy and shows no
ing, or old cutane(ous?)

I just watched Crystal's segment.

The deputy district attorney says that there could have been a paperwork mishap at the coroner's office. He says that they have Crystal's fingerprints from two different agencies, so that "eliminates any possibility of the coroners autopsying the wrong remains".

I don't understand how that can be. So they have her fingerprints from two different agencies, whoever they are. How does that mean that the right body was autopsied? That just means that they had possession of Crystal's body and identified it with fingerprints, and probably performed an autopsy on her. It doesn't mean her body stayed with the correct paperwork.

IF her body wasn't with the correct paperwork, then they could have easily "autopsied the wrong body" and released the wrong body to the family to be cremated.

Another question... The deputy district attorney admits that her body was in such an advanced state of decomposition that they could not find a cause of death.

Yet it was in good enough condition that they could identify her by her fingerprints? I dunno about that. Getting prints from a decomposed body is a tedious and time consuming process and I don't even think the technology was available in 1988. And if it was, would an overworked coroners office bother to go to all that trouble to try ID yet another Jane Doe?

So..... they couldn't identify a cause of death, but she was in good enough condition that they could get fingerprints? The part of the autopsy report that UM showed even described a discoloration (which I am assuming means on part of her skin or an internal organ). If she was in that good of condition, they should be able to see stab wounds, ligature or strangulation marks, burst appendix, ectopic pregnancy, etc, etc. Were the lungs in good enough condition to check for suffocation? I admit not every possible cause of death would be obvious, but they must have had enough to work with to be able to rule out certain things, at least.

I wonder if they did that and UM just didn't give us those details. In that little snippet of the autopsy report, all I could see was where they might have said something about no signs of trauma. Here's what the part they showed us says. Anything in () is my own guesses, BTW, "cutaneous" means referring to the skin:

(g)reenish-blue disco(loration?)
Small fly larvae up
(t)he facial region o
d well-nourished,
length. No cutan(eous)
of trauma can be d(etermined?)
opsy and shows no
ing, or old cutane(ous?)

What I'm about to say is a little graphic. I wouldn't want to upset anyone who would rather not read things about autopsies and the like. Please feel free to scroll past.


*************************


I've read before that if a body is in its initial stages of decomposition, the skin on the fingertips can be gently pulled taut and rolled onto inkpad/fingerprint cards as one would normally do. I seem to also recall a CCF segment (or maybe it was a true crime book that I read at some point) in which the medical examiner was having difficulty in obtaining fingerprints from an individual's body, so he removed the epidermis of each fingertip, inserted his own finger into that skin layer like a glove, and was able to successfully roll prints that way. Even in Rebecca Young's case--who was murdered outdoors and subsequently left to the elements until she was thankfully found--one fingerprint was matched to her, and her body was in such a state that her skin color couldn't even be ascertained. So it seems there are a number of ways to obtain fingerprints from a body in such a state of decomposition as Crystal Spencer's was.


*****************************

I do agree with you that the deputy D.A.'s comments were confusing. And ultimately, why that wildly divergent information was part of Crystal's autopsy report still remains unanswered.

Yep, I've heard of that fingerprinting method you described. Must have seen the same program or read the same book or something. :)

I could see if Crystal was 61" tall and the autopsy report accidentally listed 67" or something like that, since a 1 and 7 look so similar, but the weight discrepancy is way off and can't really be explained by sloppy handwriting. Maybe transposing numbers? For example if she weighed 104 and they wrote 140? (Can't remember if they said the actual exact weight. I think Anton said she weighed about 110 lbs.)

I wonder what else on the report was consistent or inconsistent with Crystal, like hair length and color, condition of her teeth and any dental work, etc. That info would be very helpful in understanding if there was a mixup with the body or if it really was just a situation where they made errors on the report.

coctyus hasn't posted here in quite some time.

Thanks for the heads up. I kind of forgot about this thread myself. :lol:

god i cant wait til my internet gets connected so i can watch all these before commenting! haha
just one or 2 things i wanted to comment on from reading the posts
a whole week is a long time to go not talking to your girlfriend who you have been with for a year! if she wasnt answering her phone or it was constantly off the hook then why not go to her apartment? or check at her work to see if shes turned up. especially if the last time he talked to her she wasnt well, why not make sure shes ok.
and also she could of taken some bad drugs and had some sort of hallucination where someone was attacking her or something and was screaming. she was probably half naked coz she was home and sick and didnt bother putting pants on. i never wear pants at home alone lol.
i will have to come back and watch the video as soon as my net works and see if my opinion changes

I am definitely going to need to rewatch this bad boy. That being said, however... I am leaning towards the theory that Crystal may have been more than an "exotic dancer" and was killed by one of her clients, who was probably involved in some way with law enforcement.

While she may have been under the weather when she died, I agree that there would be more evidence that she died in that manner in the apartment-- vomit, cold medicine, prescription drugs, etc.

I thought the posts from Crystal's brother were very interesting. I could also see her death in this manner. The cocaine may not have been in the apartment because someone removed the drugs after she died. It's a shame he never posted again...

I also find it disturbing that she was naked from the waist down in a corner with the telephone cord wrapped around her. That's a huge red flag.

I also am surprised by the prostitution comments, as being an erotic dancer does not mean she was having sex with customers for money. It sounded like, from what her friend said, that she felt degraded enough to be stripping.

Even if not for the screams, the sickness angle seems hard to swallow because of the condition in which she was found.

After watching this segment - I agree with you the nude from the waist down is a huge red flag ! Add to that the late night screams on the 7th + the phone off the hook + position and location of body = I am thinking someone broke nto her apartment and raped her then maybe smothered or manually strangled her. If the method of strangling that I stated was used , for example,then the decomposition would have masked the tell tale signs hence the coroner finding nothing suspicious....

IF an attacker broke in to rape her there probably could have been a scuffle during which time the neighbors hear the screams .....the phone of the hook is also alarming especially considering she wasnt well and her friends, family or Anton could have called her. Some rapists also disconnect phones prior to attacking victims .

I noticed way far back in this thread some comments about how it was strange Anton went a week without seeing Crystal. Watching the segment again (clearer copy), a newspaper article says that Crystal lived in Burbank and Anton in Playa del Rey. For those of you not familiar with the Los Angeles area, that's not a quick drive, especially if you take into account traffic (can easily turn a one hour trip into double that), Anton's work schedule, and Crystal having a cold. So I don't think it's too weird that they went a week without seeing each other and Anton wasn't THAT worried about it.

I noticed way far back in this thread some comments about how it was strange Anton went a week without seeing Crystal. Watching the segment again (clearer copy), a newspaper article says that Crystal lived in Burbank and Anton in Playa del Rey. For those of you not familiar with the Los Angeles area, that's not a quick drive, especially if you take into account traffic (can easily turn a one hour trip into double that), Anton's work schedule, and Crystal having a cold. So I don't think it's too weird that they went a week without seeing each other and Anton wasn't THAT worried about it.

One thing I thought was odd wasn't that he went a week without seeing her, but that he went a week without speaking to her before checking on her. I realize that this was a time before cell phones and social media were prevalent, but going a week without speaking to your significant other seems like a long time.

One thing I thought was odd wasn't that he went a week without seeing her, but that he went a week without speaking to her before checking on her. I realize that this was a time before cell phones and social media were prevalent, but going a week without speaking to your significant other seems like a long time.
I agree about speaking with her. I think in the segment he says he tried calling and became a bit concerned and wondered if she went to Japan without saying anything. Which still seems odd. Why would she go without a call?

I got the impression Anton wasn't quite as close to Crystal as he would have liked to have been. Reading between the lines he could have been more of a sugar daddy than a significant other...

I got the impression Anton wasn't quite as close to Crystal as he would have liked to have been. Reading between the lines he could have been more of a sugar daddy than a significant other...

I definitely got the impression that this could be the case.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Honestly I personally feel this was a clerical oversight and the body tags were accidentally switched. The coroners office had a long history of laziness and cutting corners. Which were exposed in the OJ Simpson case. For example, when they drew Simpson's blood the examiner said they took 2 cilileters of blood according to the paperwork. When the vial was examined there was 1.5 cilileters.

During the trial the examiner said, I took approximately 2 cilileters of blood. When questioned about the missing .5 by the defense. The examiner said that he didn't record what was taken but estimated based on what he saw in the vial.

That is just 100% laziness right there. And it wouldn't be far fetchet to think that an overworked lab tech just randomly started putting toe tags on bodies to go home early.