There was a show on cable about serial killers and I wondered who you think
were some of the worst ones? I didn't get to see the entire show but the part I did see was informative.

Oh, man. Good question. I'm gonna throw out some of the names you'd expect to hear:

Richard Ramiriez, aka "The Night Stalker"
Zodiac
Jack the Ripper
Ted Bundy
Aileen Wournos
John Wayne Gacy
Jeffrey Dahmer
Ed Gein

Those are just a few. I'm willing to bet that you'll get some great answers from others on the boards. :)

Ted Bundy & Jack the Ripper seemed to be the two most famous.

In terms of raw numbers, the Green River Killer was one of the worst.

Robert Hansen and Ed Kemper are two sadistic psychopaths who enjoyed murdering their victims. Hansen owned a bakery in Alaska in the early 1980s and decided to hunt prostitutes rather than wild game. His conviction and compulsion to murder was so intense he flew his final victims from Anchorage to his hut on the Kenai Peninsula. He released the blindfolded victims and hunted them down. Kemper decapitated his victims. Most of them were college students in northen California. The last two victims were his mother and her best friend.

Robert Hansen and Ed Kemper are two sadistic psychopaths who enjoyed murdering their victims. Hansen owned a bakery in Alaska in the early 1980s and decided to hunt prostitutes rather than wild game. His conviction and compulsion to murder was so intense he flew his final victims from Anchorage to his hut on the Kenai Peninsula. He released the blindfolded victims and hunted them down. Kemper decapitated his victims. Most of them were college students in northen California. The last two victims were his mother and her best friend.


Man those are two crazy guys. Are they in prison now?

In February 1984, Robert Hansen pled guilty to four counts of first degree murder and received a sentence of 499 years. Investigators found an aviation map of Alaska in Hansen's attic. The map contained 17 crosses representing murder victims. John Douglas, a former FBI agent from the Behavioral Science Unit believes Hansen murdered approximately 50 prostitutes in Alaska and other states.

Ed Kemper was found guilty of eight counts of first degree murder and in November 1973. He received a life sentence. Kemper claimed the death penalty would be appropriate. He was convicted when the Supreme Court imposed a moratorium on the death penalty.

Honestly, I think Ted Bundy was one of the worst serial killers of all time (and he's the one I read about the most). Not only did he not LOOK like a serial killer, but he used his charisma and intelligence to lure dozens of victims to their deaths (a lot of experts speculated there are more victims that we don't even know about...could be up to a 100!) He also straddled two different types of serial killer--the sexual deviant and the necrophiliac, which is rare.

He even said it himself, "I'm the most cold-blooded sonofabitch you'll ever meet".

^ Bundy looked like an average normal guy, but like you said he turned out to be one of the worst serial killers. It makes you wonder how they end up doing all those things. I guess there's something missing or wrong in their minds.

I agree with all the above and let me add the following:

Saddam Hussein
Osama Bin Laden
Hitler
Wayne Williams aka Atlanta Child Murderer
Son of Sam aka David Berkowitz
Boston Strangler
BTK Killer
Juan Corona
Charles Cullen
Albert Fish
John Wayne Gacy
Charles Manson and the Manson Family
Timothy McVeigh
Charles Ng and Leonard Lake

He is not considered a serial murderer, but he did kill two people: OJ SIMPSON

Absolutely...plus, Bundy wasn't abused or mistreated in any way. However, growing up, the woman he believed to be his sister was actually his mother (and the parents were actually his grandparents). He was born out of wedlock and back then that was a taboo of sorts.

He also loathed the man who would become his step-father because he didn't have a high social standing in life (Bundy had a pre-occupation with money and social status). All his life he felt inadequate. In high school he was known as being painfully shy and never had any contact with girls (although he was excellent with academics, like political science). Still, for the most part he couldn't hold down a job or get serious with anything.

Later on, he met a girl in college named Stephanie--she was pretty much everything he'd dreamed of (smart, worldly, beautiful, intelligent). And most of all, wealthy. They dated for a while and she also became Bundy's first lover. Ann Rule (who actually worked with Bundy during the late 60's/early 70's in a crisis center...she'd later go on to write a really excellent true crime book about her friendship with Bundy called 'The Stranger Beside Me') claims that Stephanie was his first (and probably only) true love.

When she dumped him for being too immature (she claimed he had no real ambition in life), he was sent over the edge. He spent many years reeling over it. He also used this time to cultivate an image--he tried even harder in school and created the mask of self-assuredness and sophistication. He met up with Stephanie some time later (I can't recall why she agreed to it), and she fell in love with the new Ted. She was so smitten with this charismatic, ambitious Ted that she agreed to reconcile and pick up with the relationship. However, just as she'd done to him many years earlier, he coldly dumped her and left her flat (seeking the revenge over being rejected that'd he so desperately wanted).


This is said to be the main reason why Bundy targeted women--he'd been betrayed by them his whole life (although I hardly see that as an excuse). The women he killed also had long, dark hair that was parted in the middle (just like Stephanie had). Anyway...

Sorry for babbling :lol: I'm just really interested in true crime, as you can see. It is fascinating to trace back the past and see how it effects someone's state of mind (although, like I said, I hardly consider that a reason to kill people. There is no good reason). But I guess this helps us understand it better.


^ Bundy looked like an average normal guy, but like you said he turned out to be one of the worst serial killers. It makes you wonder how they end up doing all those things. I guess there's something missing or wrong in their minds.

Most serial murderers are psychopaths. They enjoy dominating and controlling their victims. The compulsion to dominate and control stems from feelings of inadequacy. Bundy, Ross, Hansen and others expose a facade of respectability to conceal their violent sexual desires of domination and control. Appearing 'normal' or 'average' is essential. If they appeared abnormal the victim would flee.

IMHO, it is a pretty pointless task to rank serial killers. They will all end up in the list anyway and we would end up "classifying" them according to the amount of infamy they acquired and the number of corpses they left behind. While there are a wide range of types of killers, the underlying needs and the sheer absence of conscience, empathy and morality involved with ruthless predator instinct are the same in all serial killers. They are unidimensional even in their inner workings.

However, if I had to emit an opinion, I would be less scared of "criminal" serial killers (Bundy and the like), which are usually the most extreme blips at the end of a "ASPD" scale, than when people end up becoming serial killers inside a criminal, political or bureaucratic framework, in which anyone could be targeted for "rational" ends at a stroke of a paper, like to induce terror, to eliminate opponents, or plainly commit massacres. Milgram has quite eloquently demonstrated that in these conditions anyone could become a serial killer, without the need to require beforehand a lack of empathy, dulled sensitivities, and a rageful, sadistic need to fill needs by killing or torturing people. While some serial killers may end up in the system anyway (think of Josef Mengele, Roy DeMeo, Amon Goeth, etc.), most people who kill in these systems are perfectly normal individuals, with perfectly normal lives outside their working places.

After all, what is the scariest situation: to end before a guy like Ted Bundy, before an authoritarian or totaliarian guard in a camp, or before a paramilitary during a modern civil war?

Richard Ramiriez, aka "The Night Stalker"

I remember watching a fbi files or one of them programs about him late at night totally freaked me out.

^ I read a book about Ramiriez, "The Night Stalker" and that was one scary book.

Jerry Brudos "The Lust Killer".. Really sick guy. Longest incarcerated inmate in Oregon before his death in 2006. Crimes of murder began in 1968. Excellent book on the case written by True Crime Author Ann Rule.

I don't think that Tim mcveigh or Charles manson can technically be called serial killers. Nor really hussein, bin laden or Hitler or any of that ilk.

Its strange how someone who kills a few people is well known, but a true mass murderer like Randy Kraft, who probably killed 60 men, is unknown to most people.

I don't think I've ever heard of Kraft. I wonder why his crimes haven't received much public attention. He seems to be the same type of guy as

Dean Corll and John Wayne Gacy

and they were all committing murders in approximately the same time period.

the green river killer...

Why is Ed Gein considered a serial killer? As far as I know, he only actually killed 2 women. The body parts in his house and whatnot where from dug-up corpses, I believe.

John Wayne Gacy - For the simple fact that he got away with it for so long. Not to mention the sheer brutality and amount of young men he killed.

Hey guys. I've read quite a few biographies on serial killers, especially Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer. I haven't studied psychology or a psychiatry. But I've been particularly interested in finding out what makes these people tick.

So I was wondering if I could get your take on something.

Let's say that a person is considered unattractive to women, has been rejected by women all his life, and has never been in a relationship. And let's say that as a result, this person feels wronged by others, harbors deep-seated anger towards woman, and is mentally tormented by how he is unable to have a beautiful woman in his life.

Could this be a recipe for a potential serial killer and violent sexual predator?

No, I don't think that would be enough. From everything I've read, violent sexual offenses have a fantasy element. For instance, dahmer sexualized death and body parts from a very young age. It was his sexual identity. He could only get off with inanimate people and cutting them up. Same with other serial sexual murderers. Its the only thing that really gets them off.

I guess what I'm saying is serial murders with a sexual component is a form of sexuality. Like hetereosexuality, homosexuality, pedophilia, etc. Just my opinion, others may disagree.

Now, I can picture a guy you described one day going on a murder SPREE and shooting several women.

No, I don't think that would be enough. From everything I've read, violent sexual offenses have a fantasy element. For instance, dahmer sexualized death and body parts from a very young age. It was his sexual identity. He could only get off with inanimate people and cutting them up. Same with other serial sexual murderers. Its the only thing that really gets them off.

I guess what I'm saying is serial murders with a sexual component is a form of sexuality. Like hetereosexuality, homosexuality, pedophilia, etc. Just my opinion, others may disagree.

Now, I can picture a guy you described one day going on a murder SPREE and shooting several women.

Truthfully, I was loosely describing Larry Gene Bell, a double murderer from the mid-1980's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Gene_Bell

You may not be familiar with him. But he abducted, raped, and murdered two girls near where he had lived. And criminal profilers at the time suspected that he may have become a full-fledged serial killer had he not been stopped.

This Bell guy apparently was overweight and had been rejected by the opposite sex many times. And according to the profilers, this guy had some type of "antisocial disorder" and "felt the need to compensate for his inadequacies by victimizing women with whom he could never come into contact".

What I don't get is where the "sexual fantasy" factor comes in.

You have a disturbed individual who had been unable to establish relationships with women, and who likely felt wronged by the opposite sex.

You're saying that such a person would most likely target women in a shooting spree.

Yet, this Bell guy abducted, raped, and killed women- at the same time satiating his uncontrollable sexual impulses.

How can an individual be continuously rejected, and NOT become a sexually motivated serial killer/rapist?

There was a very good show on here in the U.K a year or so ago called 'Most Evil' which was presented by by forensic psychiatrist Dr. Michael Stone in which he studied the crimes of serial killers and interviewed many of them about their crimes and then graded them on a scale in terms of how depraved they were. Just fascinating and really made you think. This was an American tv so will have been on tv in the States too. Personally, I think some of the most interesting cases involve those who have killed when the were not driven by a uncontrollable desire to kill as such but by other reasons that were under their control e.g. for financial gain. A case in point, is that of the serial killers Burke in Hare, who are little known outside of the UK but were actually the most prolific serial killers here until Dr. Harold Shipman starting bumping off his patients. Watched a very good documentary about them that I found out about from Youtube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfiJWZuGAWQ. Interesting, not only for the Burke and Hare case but also for the information regarding practices that are still going on in terms of profiting from murder victims.

Honestly, I think Ted Bundy was one of the worst serial killers of all time (and he's the one I read about the most). Not only did he not LOOK like a serial killer, but he used his charisma and intelligence to lure dozens of victims to their deaths (a lot of experts speculated there are more victims that we don't even know about...could be up to a 100!) He also straddled two different types of serial killer--the sexual deviant and the necrophiliac, which is rare.

He even said it himself, "I'm the most cold-blooded sonofabitch you'll ever meet".

I'm willing to bet the Rent money he killed many more Girls than what the authorities knew about.

I'm willing to bet the Rent money he killed many more Girls than what the authorities knew about.
Agreed 100%. The rate at which he grabbed girls off the streets and parking lots is just horribly high. I can't help but examine some case files on the Charley Project and wonder if Bundy could have had a hand in them (even when he's not purported to be a suspect). On the Charley Project, all the cases he's suspected in just happened to have narrow windows of opportunity making him capable of striking. A girl goes out to a parking lot to drive to pick up her brother, a girl returns to her nearby dormitory (going only a small distance alone), etc. I think many more girls in other states perhaps, fell victim to him.