View Full Version : Craig Williamson


Tretsy
03-09-2007, 07:33 AM
Apparently Craig Williamson went missing in 1993 after being newly married. He and his wife opened a fish farm and while away on a business trip he vanished. Eventually he was found in Key West and UM said they had filmed a reunion with his family. Apparently he was beaten and robbed and lost his memory. Did anyone see the update?? What happened?

Thiussat
03-09-2007, 06:58 PM
I saw this update. He was an older man, right? From what I remember, he was beaten and robbed, like you said, and apparently lost his memory because of this. He was finally identified when he was riding a train, a lady recognized him and he was eventually reunited. That's as much as the update said. It apparently was not a case of an intentional run away.

wiseguy182
03-10-2007, 08:57 AM
I saw update as well. Call me crazy (everyone together now: "you're crazy"), but wasn't there a second update that mentioned that he and his wife got a divorce because even though they had reunited, it just wasn't the same. If so, that would be a sad ending.

crystaldawn
03-10-2007, 10:34 AM
Someone from the board recently told me that shortly after he was found his wife was interviewed on one of the morning programs, possibly the Today show. She (Craig's wife) didn't elaborate much but seemed to indicate that when Craig was found he already had a new girlfriend so that was no doubt a big reason why they weren't able to save the marriage.

mozartpc27
04-09-2007, 11:03 PM
Someone from the board recently told me that shortly after he was found his wife was interviewed on one of the morning programs, possibly the Today show. She (Craig's wife) didn't elaborate much but seemed to indicate that when Craig was found he already had a new girlfriend so that was no doubt a big reason why they weren't able to save the marriage.

Was it just me, or did this whole story smack of someone who thought he was ditching a woman he didn't want to be with and perhaps an overcommitted financial situation (setting up a fish farm ain't cheap, I'm sure), only to find himself (oops!) the subject of a segment on Unsolved Mysteries? Then, having some sense of decency, he called and blamed the problem on "amnesia."

Amnesia, to me, is one of those things so rare that I'm always a little suspiscious when I see someone claiming it happened in real life (and this is not to belittle those who do experience this terrible thing --- I am sure, when it does happen, it is all too devestating). It's much more frequent as a TV plot device than a legitimate condition.

James T
04-10-2007, 09:12 AM
It is hard to say, it was a lot of trouble to go to acting in such a strange manner in front of people he did not know with no real reason- it took this programme to find him so I think he was genuine.


Was it just me, or did this whole story smack of someone who thought he was ditching a woman he didn't want to be with and perhaps an overcommitted financial situation (setting up a fish farm ain't cheap, I'm sure), only to find himself (oops!) the subject of a segment on Unsolved Mysteries? Then, having some sense of decency, he called and blamed the problem on "amnesia."

Amnesia, to me, is one of those things so rare that I'm always a little suspiscious when I see someone claiming it happened in real life (and this is not to belittle those who do experience this terrible thing --- I am sure, when it does happen, it is all too devestating). It's much more frequent as a TV plot device than a legitimate condition.

justins5256
04-10-2007, 03:25 PM
I remember there being an update (it may not have been on Lifetime, I can't remember) indicating that Williamson had relocated and more or less started a new life after losing his memory. When his wife found him, the old feelings just weren't there and they got a divorce. The funny thing is, I recall seeing the update on Lifetime indicating that he had been found, and that a reunion was planned but that was it. The divorce angle wasn't there. Maybe Lifetime wanted us to believe the couple was on good terms and everything was fine so they withheld the later update.

The Third Man
04-10-2007, 03:40 PM
Here's an article (July 30, 1995) about the Williamson case from the AP wire. It looked like some authorities shared mozartpc's doubts about this being a true case of amnesia, and, after reading this article, I have to share them too.

HEADLINE: MAN MISSING 2 YEARS TURNS UP IN FLORIDA, CLAIMING AMNESIA

BYLINE: PAM ZUBECKL; Colorado Springs Gazette Telegraph

DATELINE: COLORADO SPRINGS, COLO.

BODY:
Craig Williamson, a Wisconsin man who disappeared from Colorado Springs two years ago while on a business trip, is alive and living in Key West, Fla.

Authorities say Williamson is working as a diver in Florida. He recently told authorities he lost his memory after he was assaulted on Aug. 30, 1993, at a bar or convenience store in Colorado Springs.

El Paso County sheriff's officials are skeptical but are glad to close a case that contained a seemingly endless stream of dead-end leads.

But Williamson's version matches a theory promoted by his wife, Christine Reinhard, who drew national media attention to her husband's disappearance. Her nationwide search for Williamson included a segment on the network TV show "Unsolved Mysteries," as well as countless newspaper stories in several states.

"I am in no position to talk about it. I am in shock," said Ms. Reinhard, who moved from Wisconsin to Cody, Wyo., after closing the couple's fish farm about a year ago.

"We're trying to keep it a private matter until we can resolve some issues," she said. "We're both very fragile right now. Craig is in a very delicate emotional state."

She also described her husband, with whom she has talked on the phone at least three times in recent weeks, as having an "extremely impaired" memory and being "very paranoid, scared."

El Paso County sheriff's investigators were relieved to close the case that involved hundreds of hours of work by local and federal agents and cost taxpayers at least $ 12,000 since Aug. 31, 1993.

Williamson had driven an old school bus to Colorado in late August, intending to buy fish from a fishery near Alamosa. But before he could load his stock, he disappeared.

In an Aug. 30 telephone call home to his fish farm near Clintonville, Wis., he asked his wife to call him at a motel the next morning to awaken him for the long drive home. When she called, she got no answer, so she called police.

Authorities found most of Williamson's belongings in the motel room and the bus parked outside. While there were no signs of a struggle, they treated the disappearance a possible homicide.

Within 24 hours of Ms. Reinhard's report that her husband was missing, Williamson's credit cards were found on a grocery store shelf in El Paso, Texas. Two weeks later a car he had rented in Colorado Springs was discovered across the Mexican border in Juarez.

Weeks later, a woman traveling by train through the Pacific Northwest reported seeing Williamson.

Ms. Reinhard pelted the Northwest with "missing" posters, badgered police and sought media coverage, and visited homeless shelters in an attempt to locate her husband.

In early 1994, she persuaded NBC's "Unsolved Mysteries" to do a segment on Williamson. That show was televised May 25, 1994, and eight subsequent times in reruns and syndication, generating more than 100 tips that were investigated by the El Paso County Sheriff's Department.

Recent telephone calls by Williamson to Ms. Reinhard and an ex-wife in Wisconsin led authorities to the Florida marina where Williamson had worked for the last nine months.

"I thought he was a very good employee, but toward the end he had a bit of trouble with his head," said Bob Ming, marina assistant manager who hired Williamson last October. "He said he had been beat up and was lost in the desert for two weeks."

Ming said Williamson "had a girlfriend but nothing serious" and quit two weeks ago. He now is a self-employed diver.

Williamson, who told Ming of some of his past experiences, never mentioned the Wisconsin fish farm or Ms. Reinhard, Ming said.

Investigators are not clear on exactly what happened when Williamson disappeared or why he recently phoned his wife.

But Williamson has since told officials that he was beaten severely and awoke in a hospital with a wristband bearing the name Ron. Later he rode buses and trains aimlessly before settling in Key West 18 months ago.

Sheriff's Capt. Lou Smit, who helped in the investigation, questions whether Williamson lost his memory. He said the abandoned rental car contained whiskers from Williamson's beard, which lab technicians found had been cut with scissors.

"He probably was changing his appearance," Smit said.

Williamson had $ 2,500 in cash when he disappeared and may have wanted to flee an overwhelming obligation of his new business. The couple had sunk all they owned into the fish farm and had borrowed another $ 400,000.

Investigators also question Williamson's apparent selective memory, noting the phone calls to his wife and ex-wife.

Smit said the truth will be known only if Williamson, who did not respond to a reporter's phone call, divulges it.

"I think it lies only in Craig's head," he said.

Investigators say they will investigate the allegations of assault only if Williamson wishes. They doubt he will.

Otherwise, "There's no crime here," Smit said. "People can just disappear and cause a lot of work for a lot of people if they want to."

Todd Mueller
01-23-2008, 01:17 AM
I just watched this one today on one of CD's volumes. I felt horrible for this couple, especially the wife, because after all of that heartache and searching and wondering, you find your husband only to realize he isn't the same man who left.

From watching the story, I never had any doubt this wasn't real. That article is interesting.

The one thing that bugs me though is that if he was faking, it sounds like he did a hell of an acting job on that train.

Maybe it really happened and then after he got his memory back, he didn't want to go back to what he had.

Sad, sad ending no matter how you look at it. His poor wife... my heart goes out to her. She thought she lost him and then she really did (more or less).

mozartpc27
01-23-2008, 11:58 AM
I just watched this one today on one of CD's volumes. I felt horrible for this couple, especially the wife, because after all of that heartache and searching and wondering, you find your husband only to realize he isn't the same man who left.

From watching the story, I never had any doubt this wasn't real. That article is interesting.

The one thing that bugs me though is that if he was faking, it sounds like he did a hell of an acting job on that train.

Maybe it really happened and then after he got his memory back, he didn't want to go back to what he had.

Sad, sad ending no matter how you look at it. His poor wife... my heart goes out to her. She thought she lost him and then she really did (more or less).

What makes you think that was him on the train? I don't trust eyewitness accounts of people claiming to see people they've never met before at all. On UM alone, there are countless "eyewitness sightings" of missing people that turn out not to be true. I'm positive this was one of those.

Todd Mueller
01-23-2008, 12:25 PM
What makes you think that was him on the train? I don't trust eyewitness accounts of people claiming to see people they've never met before at all. On UM alone, there are countless "eyewitness sightings" of missing people that turn out not to be true. I'm positive this was one of those.


That is a good point although the witness said his appearance and what he said matched. Maybe it's that I want to believe this really happened to him???

By you are right, if this show proves anything, it's that people can be "100% sure" and still 100% wrong.

Arnold_OldSchool
04-08-2008, 09:10 PM
Clintonville is only about an hour from where I live, maybe I should seek out the local papers on this story. I could send them to Crystal Dawn with her next check....

crystaldawn
04-08-2008, 09:49 PM
Clintonville is only about an hour from where I live, maybe I should seek out the local papers on this story. I could send them to Crystal Dawn with her next check....

That would be interesting to see..:) I recently watched the NBC version of this episode. A question - did the Lifetime version mention that Craig had suffered a concussion shortly before his disappearance? In the NBC version his wife mentioned this and talked about how he kept having headaches but was reluctant to ever take any pain medicine. Its been a while since I had seen the Lifetime version so thought I'd ask you guys if this fact was mentioned or if Lifetime edited it out.

FranchiseLegend
04-09-2008, 03:38 PM
I remember this segment and I always thought Craig staged his own disappearance. In the update, they showed Craig and his wife walking together and chatting AFTER he was already found. She seemed heartbroken, but I think the finincial strain he put on the Fish Farm made him want out.

Todd Mueller
04-09-2008, 03:54 PM
I remember this segment and I always thought Craig staged his own disappearance. In the update, they showed Craig and his wife walking together and chatting AFTER he was already found. She seemed heartbroken, but I think the finincial strain he put on the Fish Farm made him want out.

The problem is, he'd had a head injury. People do weird stuff after that sometimes. Combine a head injury with tremendous stress and anything is possible.

I'm not saying he didn't fake it but I don't think it started that way. Maybe he found himself elsewhere and then became to ashamed to go back.

asquinas
11-21-2008, 11:13 PM
Sheriff's Capt. Lou Smit, who helped in the investigation, questions whether Williamson lost his memory. He said the abandoned rental car contained whiskers from Williamson's beard, which lab technicians found had been cut with scissors.

"He probably was changing his appearance," Smit said.

Williamson had $ 2,500 in cash when he disappeared and may have wanted to flee an overwhelming obligation of his new business. The couple had sunk all they owned into the fish farm and had borrowed another $ 400,000.

Investigators also question Williamson's apparent selective memory, noting the phone calls to his wife and ex-wife.

Smit said the truth will be known only if Williamson, who did not respond to a reporter's phone call, divulges it.

"I think it lies only in Craig's head," he said.

Investigators say they will investigate the allegations of assault only if Williamson wishes. They doubt he will.

Otherwise, "There's no crime here," Smit said. "People can just disappear and cause a lot of work for a lot of people if they want to."



Good ole Lou Smit. He was also brought in as a PI in the JonBenet Ramsey case.

freshwater
11-25-2008, 02:36 PM
Could it be.....?



Clintonville fish farm destroyed in blaze
By The Associated Press
Nov. 24, 2008 | Clintonville - A fish farm has been destroyed by fire in Waupaca County.

A large building housing tanks of fish caught fire late Sunday night near Clintonville.

No one was injured.

Fire departments from Clintonville, Bear Creek and Navarino responded to the blaze in the Town of Matteson.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush
11-26-2008, 12:30 AM
So, was he really weirding out on a train, or did the guys who told that story get some information from elsewhere? The things they had him saying about the fish couldn't have been just invented by anyone who didn't know his situation.

Did he really have a new girlfriend? It seems suspicious that a guy so messed up he didn't even know who he was would be able to sustain a relationship, but of course some women will go out with anything. :crazy:

Wamisto
03-01-2010, 11:50 AM
Two thoughts occurred to me: 1. It is probably not a good idea to get married a month after you meet someone - especially when you have tried your hand at marriage once before and failed (you may need a little more time to better inform yourself about the other person and therefore make a wiser choice). 2. I don't think Christine really knew as much about Craig as she thought. I think her conviction that he was "the most sincere, caring, loving person" and "wonderfully supportive" man was based on a fantasy, what she wanted to believe, and was not necessarily based on all that there was to him. I am sure he showed a lot of love and care and support, but I am sure that was mixed in with a lot that was not so good, and that he hid from her (and/or that she chose to ignore to preserve her fantasy - it is amazing what wishful thinking will have you believing). At least, that is the impression I got in watching this segment.

Personally, I believe he staged everything. I am also suspicious of the eyewitness account. What was that case where that woman disappeared, and some trucker said he gave her a ride quite a few months after the disappearance, with a description and information too uncanny to be anyone but her, when in reality, as the update told us, she actually committed suicide three days after she disappeared? He was so convinced - and yet, he was wrong. Most such "eyewitnesses" interviewed by UM turn out to be mistaken.

I didn't get too far into this segment before I said to myself, "this seems like a dicey situation and a couple of people who don't really seem to have it all together". I feel bad for Christine, but not necessarily Craig. If you really did get amnesia, and your wife shows you the marriage certificate to educate you on the fact you are married, why not break up with your girlfriend and go back with her? Unless, of course, you staged your own disappearance for whatever reason and deliberately chose to leave your previous life and your wife and take up with a new woman.

crystaldawn
03-01-2010, 06:20 PM
Well granted the update was not what I expected and a disappointment but I have a hard time thinking that Craig orchestrated it. After all, he left his children and other family members, not just Christine. Plus when they interviewed Craig in the update, he did seem distant like he had sustained a brain injury. I feel so bad for Christine. It was obvious how devoted she was to him and went to great lengths to find him. I wonder if they still keep in touch.

Apostapler
03-02-2010, 05:28 AM
IIRC, Craig was the one that contacted UM. Am I wrong?

I believe the guy, I just feel sad for Christine.

Allierain
03-02-2010, 11:21 AM
Personally, I believe he staged everything. I am also suspicious of the eyewitness account. What was that case where that woman disappeared, and some trucker said he gave her a ride quite a few months after the disappearance, with a description and information too uncanny to be anyone but her, when in reality, as the update told us, she actually committed suicide three days after she disappeared? He was so convinced - and yet, he was wrong. Most such "eyewitnesses" interviewed by UM turn out to be mistaken.

I didn't get too far into this segment before I said to myself, "this seems like a dicey situation and a couple of people who don't really seem to have it all together". I feel bad for Christine, but not necessarily Craig. If you really did get amnesia, and your wife shows you the marriage certificate to educate you on the fact you are married, why not break up with your girlfriend and go back with her? Unless, of course, you staged your own disappearance for whatever reason and deliberately chose to leave your previous life and your wife and take up with a new woman.

I just watched the segment for the first time in awhile and I don't think it all adds up either. His memory was lost, yet he was working as a diver in Florida and had a new girlfriend. Maybe he had hit a point where he could pick up his life and go on even though his memory was lost. Did he lose his memory only partially? Can you get a job doing something like diving if you don't know who you are? Maybe he forgot just the most recent years of his life, I don't know.

I did remember seeing the recorded update between the two when they met again. She was very emotional, but he seemed much more nonchalant about the whole thing.

(I do want to emphasize that this is entirely my opinion based on what I saw in the segments. TV gets edited, facts can be presented wrong, and my comments are not meant to be mean in nature)

Wamisto
03-02-2010, 12:31 PM
IIRC, Craig was the one that contacted UM. Am I wrong?


Yes, but as one poster pointed out, when you are profiled on UM, you know it is only a matter of time before someone turns you in or reports your whereabouts. Better to report yourself than allow another to. If you report yourself, you can stand by your ruse. If you keep quiet and in the meantime let someone else do it, it looks more suspicious, like you don't want to be found.

egswanso
03-02-2010, 07:29 PM
Was it just me, or did this whole story smack of someone who thought he was ditching a woman he didn't want to be with and perhaps an overcommitted financial situation (setting up a fish farm ain't cheap, I'm sure), only to find himself (oops!) the subject of a segment on Unsolved Mysteries? Then, having some sense of decency, he called and blamed the problem on "amnesia."

Amnesia, to me, is one of those things so rare that I'm always a little suspiscious when I see someone claiming it happened in real life (and this is not to belittle those who do experience this terrible thing --- I am sure, when it does happen, it is all too devestating). It's much more frequent as a TV plot device than a legitimate condition.

Certainly possible. It's especially odd given that, if I remember right, he remembered certain parts of his past life, but didn't make any attempt to discover the truth... methinks that real amnesics (of whom I can't think are that many) WANT to find out who they are. He didn't seem to care...

sdb4884
03-03-2010, 12:52 PM
Very interesting what of Christine and Craig now?

Was that their old fish farm that burned down?

idol
06-29-2011, 08:03 AM
When he was found in Florida was he going by the name of Craig Williamson? It was mentioned he woke up in a hospital at somepoint with the name 'Ron' on his wristband. I don't know how to go on this case, I'm 50/50.

Apostapler
06-29-2011, 09:29 AM
I still believe him. He gained absolutely nothing from doing this...and unlike a few people with amnesia that was profiled on the show, he wasn't wanted for anything.

asmitty
06-29-2011, 02:13 PM
Yes, but as one poster pointed out, when you are profiled on UM, you know it is only a matter of time before someone turns you in or reports your whereabouts. Better to report yourself than allow another to. If you report yourself, you can stand by your ruse. If you keep quiet and in the meantime let someone else do it, it looks more suspicious, like you don't want to be found.

While I can see why it would throw suspicion off of you to call in yourself and report your whereabouts, I don't see how not reporting yourself makes you look guilty. Honestly, what % of the population watches a show like UM on a regular basis even when it was on prime time tv. I did, but I didn't know anyone else personally who did. How hard would it have been for him to simply deny that he knew about the broadcast if he didn't report himself and someone else did?

Wire
11-11-2011, 09:12 PM
I still believe him. He gained absolutely nothing from doing this...and unlike a few people with amnesia that was profiled on the show, he wasn't wanted for anything.
He gained a new life in a new location with a new woman.

I laugh so hard every time this story airs. Nobody can be that clueless.

TheCars1986
11-12-2011, 10:05 AM
Wasn't there an article that stated that Williamson's beard trimmings were found in his abandoned vehicle? Trying to alter your appearance is not on the top of your list if you are suffering from amnesia. I think the fish farm (and the marriage) was a rushed, bad idea and Craig wanted out without hurting Christine's feelings.

Killarney Rose
11-12-2011, 11:03 AM
Wasn't there an article that stated that Williamson's beard trimmings were found in his abandoned vehicle? Trying to alter your appearance is not the top on your list if you are suffering from amnesia. I think the fish farm (and the marriage) was a rushed, bad idea and Craig wanted out without hurting Christine's feelings.


I think that is exactly what happened.

JM
02-12-2014, 09:59 PM
Just saw the case for the first time. Absolutely convinced he left her and it wasn't amnesia.

I'm dubious about most amnesia cases on UM but this one in particular just felt like he split.

Anyone unstable enough, at their age, to get married after ONE MONTH of knowing each other is definitely not the most dependable mate.

Mysteryphile
07-27-2014, 03:51 PM
I'm bumping this because I thought this thread had a lot of interesting information about the case that I wasn't aware of before.

TheCars1986
07-28-2014, 08:01 AM
I wish we could rename this thread "Missing Fish Guy".

MegtheEgg86
07-28-2014, 10:18 AM
I wish we could rename this thread "Missing Fish Guy".

:lol:

Janel "Jaycee" Miller
07-28-2014, 07:32 PM
Here is an article on the fire. Unfortunately, and unless I missed something, I can't tell if it's the same fish farm that was owned by the Williamsons. I did email the newspaper; maybe we'll hear something back.

http://www.shawanoleader.com/content/fire-strikes-couple%E2%80%99s-fish-farm-near-clintonville

cordwainer1453
07-28-2014, 08:54 PM
I always thought the lady in this segment was a little bit of a nut. I always got the feeling she called him 10 times a day when he wasn't right next to her, and did other things like that. This is based on her relentless pursuit of him after he went missing, and they knew each other how long? If that's the case, then I can kind of see why this guy wanted to ditch her.

Necco
07-28-2014, 09:37 PM
I wish we could rename this thread "Missing Fish Guy".


Hahahahaha. Fish Guy!

MegtheEgg86
07-28-2014, 11:49 PM
I always thought the lady in this segment was a little bit of a nut. I always got the feeling she called him 10 times a day when he wasn't right next to her, and did other things like that. This is based on her relentless pursuit of him after he went missing, and they knew each other how long?

I got kind of a similar feeling, too. She seemed like a nice enough lady, but I sensed that the marriage was maybe more than a little rushed, the tilapia operation was overwhelming (and fell through, eventually), and that Williamson was probably feeling more than a bit suffocated by all of it.

TheCars1986
07-29-2014, 07:42 AM
While I do think the marriage was very rushed, you could sense that Christine really loved Fish Guy. That's what made what he did even more deplorable. I wonder if he ever reverted back to his original name after the update happened, and what became of both of them.

justins5256
07-29-2014, 09:01 AM
While I think the most likely scenario is that Williamson faked the amnesia to escape his marriage and lifestyle, I do still wonder about the Amtrak sighting. Do you guys think that was Williamson, someone else, or a fabrication in and of itself?

UM has really made me cynical of eyewitness accounts, and while I tend to think the woman interviewed (she was a nurse as I recall) did actually have this experience, I just don't believe she saw Craig Williamson.

TheCars1986
07-29-2014, 09:52 AM
While I think the most likely scenario is that Williamson faked the amnesia to escape his marriage and lifestyle, I do still wonder about the Amtrak sighting. Do you guys think that was Williamson, someone else, or a fabrication in and of itself?

UM has really made me cynical of eyewitness accounts, and while I tend to think the woman interviewed (she was a nurse as I recall) did actually have this experience, I just don't believe she saw Craig Williamson.

I think it happened, but was someone other than fish guy (sorry, from here on out that's his name to me). On the Lifetime Stack reruns, this portion of the segment was completely taken out. Where was the Amtrak sighting at? According to this article: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1683&dat=19950731&id=EKMaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=_CwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6277,8183858

He claims to have left from Wisconsin to Colorado on a business trip. He checked into a motel, and told Christine to call him the next morning to wake him up (red flag #1). When she called, he didn't answer so she called police. They found most of his belongings in his room, his van/bus was abandoned outside the motel. His credit cards were found on a shelf in a grocery store in Texas (red flag #2), and he also had a rental car (red flag #3) that was found in Mexico (red flag #4), with beard trimmings that matched him (red flag #5). He claims he was beaten and woke up in a hospital with the name tag "Ron". He didn't remember the name of the hospital or where it was located (red flag #6).

All of these red flags I've noted make me more suspicious of his story of amnesia. If he were truly attacked, somebody stole his credit cards, used them to get a rental car and nothing else, and then left them in a store in Texas before making it to Mexico. That doesn't make sense. No one is going to attack someone simply to use their credit cards to get a rental car. And they're certainly not going to trim his beard and plant them in the rental car before abandoning it.

ETA: I also found another article, http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19940123&slug=1891084, which states that the couple dropped closed to a half a million dollars to start their fish farm. If the fish farm was faltering, this could also be a reason as to why he wanted to disappear. That article also mentions that his credit cards were left out in plain sight in the grocery store in Texas, as if someone wanted them to be found. The biggest kicker to me, is that if he indeed was suffering from amnesia, he obviously used the credit cards to obtain a rental car (his beard trimmings were confirmed to be his) and travel to Mexico to abandon it. And his rental car was found just over the Mexican border, meaning that beforehand he was in Texas as well. Coincidence? Had he really been suffering from amnesia, he obviously had his credit cards in his possession, so he would have known who he was all along! That second article is really sad because it shows how much Christine really did love and care for him.

WishfulDreamer
07-29-2014, 08:13 PM
While I do think the marriage was very rushed, you could sense that Christine really loved Fish Guy. That's what made what he did even more deplorable. I wonder if he ever reverted back to his original name after the update happened, and what became of both of them.
I agree. She showed her true devotion by hopping in her car and traveling all over the place to find him and is probably one of my favorite interviewees on UM. I really hope she found someone special and is living happily today.

I'm still torn on Fish Guy (;) ) I think it's probably the most likely scenario that he faked it. I think if he did, even to spare her feelings, that's just despicable. It's far better to be honest and come clean than have your spouse think anything under the sun could have happened to you.

Janel "Jaycee" Miller
07-30-2014, 07:04 PM
Here is an article on the fire. Unfortunately, and unless I missed something, I can't tell if it's the same fish farm that was owned by the Williamsons. I did email the newspaper; maybe we'll hear something back.

http://www.shawanoleader.com/content/fire-strikes-couple%E2%80%99s-fish-farm-near-clintonville
I heard back from the newspaper. It did not have any information to verify or discredit the idea that the farm that burned down, was the same one owned by Craig and Christine.

Necco
07-31-2014, 12:03 AM
I think it happened, but was someone other than fish guy (sorry, from here on out that's his name to me). On the Lifetime Stack reruns, this portion of the segment was completely taken out. Where was the Amtrak sighting at? According to this article: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1683&dat=19950731&id=EKMaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=_CwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6277,8183858


Wait. So you think there are TWO Fish Guys? Heartbreaker Fish Guy and Amtrak Fish Guy?

My god! Does this mean there's another Fish Guy out there still in need of help? Unsolved Mysteries needs to come back on the air and help Other Fish Guy (aka Amtrak Fish Guy) find his fish!!!!!

:happyface

TheCars1986
07-31-2014, 09:00 AM
Wait. So you think there are TWO Fish Guys? Heartbreaker Fish Guy and Amtrak Fish Guy?

My god! Does this mean there's another Fish Guy out there still in need of help? Unsolved Mysteries needs to come back on the air and help Other Fish Guy (aka Amtrak Fish Guy) find his fish!!!!!

:happyface

No, I think Fish Guy and Amtrak Guy are two different people. Fish Guy's trail leads from Colorado down south to Texas, then to Mexico, and then ultimately Florida. Amtrak Guy was spotted in the north west, IIRC. I don't think Amtrak Guy was missing any fish, but anything's possible.

Necco
07-31-2014, 09:38 AM
No, I think Fish Guy and Amtrak Guy are two different people. Fish Guy's trail leads from Colorado down south to Texas, then to Mexico, and then ultimately Florida. Amtrak Guy was spotted in the north west, IIRC. I don't think Amtrak Guy was missing any fish, but anything's possible.

But Amtrak Fish Guy was rambling about feeding his fish!

Spark Of Spirit
07-31-2014, 02:23 PM
When I think "Fish Guy", I think AJ Breaux because of that weird tip.

There sure is a lot of fish on UM.

justins5256
07-31-2014, 02:26 PM
When I think "Fish Guy", I think AJ Breaux because of that weird tip.

There sure is a lot of fish on UM.

Don't forget the the fish jumping out of water decal from the Angela Hammond segment.

Janel "Jaycee" Miller
07-31-2014, 07:08 PM
Don't forget those four guys in Maine who said they were abducted by UFOs were out on the lake, probably fishing, when the alleged abduction occurred.

Necco
07-31-2014, 08:52 PM
The Sarah Jo and the Cassie Nicole were also going fishing, as was Gordon Collins.

TheCars1986
08-01-2014, 08:40 AM
The message in a bottle segment had to have come in contact with several fishies.

thinwhiteduke74
08-13-2014, 08:03 PM
Watching this episode for the first time, I thought the most awesome bit was Robert Stack grimly explaining that tilapia was an "exotic African fish."

Gelatinous Goo
08-26-2017, 11:37 PM
Watched the update on season 8.

Is it known for certain that Craig left WI for CO driving a bus? They do show a picture of him driving a painted-over school bus in the segment.

In the update, as the former couple parted ways, Craig drove off in an overstuffed, beat-up pickup with Wisconsin plates. Was this his personal vehicle, or just something used for the sake of the reunion? If it was indeed his vehicle, how did Craig survive all that time in Florida with amnesia and a plated vehicle? Surely the plates would have expired. Or, did he pack up his possessions in one of the couples' trucks and head back south?

Todd Mueller
08-27-2017, 01:04 AM
Watched the update on season 8.

Is it known for certain that Craig left WI for CO driving a bus? They do show a picture of him driving a painted-over school bus in the segment.

In the update, as the former couple parted ways, Craig drove off in an overstuffed, beat-up pickup with Wisconsin plates. Was this his personal vehicle, or just something used for the sake of the reunion? If it was indeed his vehicle, how did Craig survive all that time in Florida with amnesia and a plated vehicle? Surely the plates would have expired. Or, did he pack up his possessions in one of the couples' trucks and head back south?

This article (http://buffalonews.com/1995/07/30/man-missing-2-years-turns-up-in-florida-claiming-amnesia/) should answer most of your questions.

Jon
08-29-2017, 10:45 AM
This article (http://buffalonews.com/1995/07/30/man-missing-2-years-turns-up-in-florida-claiming-amnesia/) should answer most of your questions.

Interesting article. I liked that they mentioned his "selective memory".

Recent telephone calls by Williamson to Ms. Reinhard and an ex-wife in Wisconsin led authorities to the Florida marina where Williamson had worked for the last nine months.

Interesting. So that's how they found him

LooksLikeCRicci
08-29-2017, 11:35 AM
Watching this episode for the first time, I thought the most awesome bit was Robert Stack grimly explaining that tilapia was an "exotic African fish."

How did I miss this particular gem? :)

Awesome.

cdr369
08-29-2017, 12:24 PM
Watching this episode for the first time, I thought the most awesome bit was Robert Stack grimly explaining that tilapia was an "exotic African fish."

I noticed that too. Oh the 1990s, we were still obsessed with crock pots and casseroles, and we weren't much of foodies back then.

cdr369
08-29-2017, 12:25 PM
I believe Craig faked it. I never bought his story.

I did feel bad for his wife, because she obviously did buy into amnesia. I wonder if after a few years whether she changed her opinion on what actually happened.

unsolvedfan4life
08-29-2017, 01:27 PM
Wow I wonder who got saddled with the debt. Also a side note there wedding kiss reminded me of the scene from 40 year old virgin. :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

LooksLikeCRicci
08-29-2017, 02:00 PM
I believe Craig faked it. I never bought his story.

I did feel bad for his wife, because she obviously did buy into amnesia. I wonder if after a few years whether she changed her opinion on what actually happened.

When I was younger, I thought the whole thing was legit. Like "Tyler." Now that I'm old and cynical, I feel differently about a lot of these type of cases.

I agree with you-- I think Craig faked it, too.

Todd Mueller
08-29-2017, 05:14 PM
When I was younger, I thought the whole thing was legit. Like "Tyler." Now that I'm old and cynical, I feel differently about a lot of these type of cases.

I agree with you-- I think Craig faked it, too.

I agree, too. He may have been mugged and had a head injury, but my guess is that he had a nervous breakdown over the debt he had incurred and decided to "amnesia" his way out of it.

I feel horrible for his poor ex-wife. She seems like a good person who really had her world turned upside down.

Smoore01
10-02-2017, 12:47 AM
I wouldn't feel too bad for that particular ex-wife she wasn't as sweet and caring as she seemed on the show. As I recall (and it has been many years since I watched it) she made it seem as if she was the only person looking for him. She left out that he had 4 kids, 2 grandkids, an ex-wife, a brother and lots of other family and friends searching the entire west coast. Plastering flyers from northern Washington to Mexico. We knew he would head back to the ocean, with or without his memory, it's his first love and calls to his soul. Just didn't figure he would head east instead of west. I think being so far inland for so many years was actually killing him.
I remeber her saying on the show something to the affect that everyday was like a Honeymoon. Not much of a honeymoon when one of you sleeps on the couch every night (for years) because the other is "a light sleeper", at least that's my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying she was/is a bad person, I'm just saying most people put their best face foward when they are on a TV show, and it's not always a completely honest face.

I remember when I saw the episode (it was one of the updates after he had been found) I was watching with my oldest child. I remember getting so angry at her while watching it. When they did the update at then end and showed his picture from when he was found my son asked me who that guy they were showing was, I said "I don't know, but it's not my Daddy. My Daddy looks like Santa Clause." I had never in my life seen him without a beard and moustache, so how anyone who didn't know him before he grew them recognized him is beyond me. Thankfully by the time he came home he was back to looking like Santa Clause.
Oh and just fyi, the car was rented when he got to town, before he went missing, so that he didn't have to drive the bus around town while he was there, also he often asked her to call and make sure he was up in the morning when he was out of town, so that was nothing new.
Craig still maintains his spotty version of the events. Ever since thus happened he gets severe headaches and has memory issues.

As for Christine, I don't know what happened to her after the divorce don't really care to. The time I spent with them in Wisconsin was enough Christine to last me a lifetime. Personally I think the are both idiots for getting married so quickly, it was quite a shock to everyone who knew him. I'm sure it was also quite a shock to everyone who knew her as well.

I don't know what really happened and probably never will. All I know was that it was very painful for everyone invovled, not just Christine and Craig, and we were all very happy to get him back. He was and still is a good man who worked hard his whole life and a good father. Maybe not the best husband, but also far from the worst.

mikewho
10-09-2017, 09:22 AM
Hard to know for sure but it seems like he faked it to just leave everything behind and start over completely.

lashlarue
11-20-2017, 02:16 AM
A lot of people seem to think that Craig faked the whole thing to get away from a marriage or financial commitment he no longer wanted to be a part of. That could very well be true, but what troubles me is if that was the case, why would he be the one to call UM? If it was his intentions to run away and start life anew, why call in and draw attention to yourself and possibly he found out on the hoax? It would seem to me he'd just keep going on with his life and keeping his fingers crossed no one recognized him from the program.

SomethingWilder
04-12-2018, 09:52 AM
A lot of people seem to think that Craig faked the whole thing to get away from a marriage or financial commitment he no longer wanted to be a part of. That could very well be true, but what troubles me is if that was the case, why would he be the one to call UM? If it was his intentions to run away and start life anew, why call in and draw attention to yourself and possibly he found out on the hoax? It would seem to me he'd just keep going on with his life and keeping his fingers crossed no one recognized him from the program.

Guilt made him call UM. I don’t peg him as a terrible guy without a conscience, he just took a cowardly way to get out of an overwhelming situation. I’m guessing when he saw Unsolved Mysteries and how ultra ultra dedicated (or obsessed) his wife was with finding him, he felt somewhat guilty and decided to at least finally give her (and him) some closure.

I could be totally wrong, maybe the amnesia thing is true, and would feel bad if it was, but there are too many red flags here. If it really were amnesia, I just feel like he would have at least given The Fish Life another shot.

Mike82
04-12-2018, 10:31 AM
I'm in the minority that believes "Tyler" (Arthur Paul Beal) but I don't believe Craig Williamson had amnesia for one second. It all just seemed WAY too convenient that he would end up alive and well so far from his home and how the couple split up shortly after.

schmave
07-17-2018, 07:59 PM
^ Not according to smoore1. There's definitely an ax to grind there from someone's perspective.

amandab1234
07-18-2018, 01:13 AM
I rarely believe any of the amnesia victims. I believed him when I was younger but now it seems like he wanted out of a rushed marriage & didn’t (excuse my language lol) have the balls to confront Christine about it. Guilt is what made him finally reach out to her.

sdb4884
07-18-2018, 10:16 AM
Suppose it's a case of UM not telling the whole story, had no idea of course that Williamson had another family and people looking for him.

Latka Gravas
12-30-2020, 11:40 PM
Re: this CW case, I'm torn as to whether he legitimately had amnesia (as he claimed) or was faking it.

It does seem clear that he did have some kind of head injury prior to going on the business trip to CO; so, I guess it's feasible that he could have been mugged & beaten (as he claimed) and did lose his memory.

However, it's also possible (as has been suggested), that he faked the amnesia to escape his new marriage & job responsibilities, etc.

rusty spike
01-08-2021, 02:03 PM
Maybe someone can help me with my memory (pun intended).

The UM segment implied that Craig drove to Colorado to sell his fish, but several articles have indicated that he went to buy fish.

I suppose it really doesn't matter since he's been located.

I am in the camp that he wanted to get out of his marriage. He apparently suffered headaches so I am not convinced that he was mugged. I also think the Amtrak guy was someone who had too much to drink.

Labonte18
01-08-2021, 04:04 PM
Maybe someone can help me with my memory (pun intended).

The UM segment implied that Craig drove to Colorado to sell his fish, but several articles have indicated that he went to buy fish.

I suppose it really doesn't matter since he's been located.

I am in the camp that he wanted to get out of his marriage. He apparently suffered headaches so I am not convinced that he was mugged. I also think the Amtrak guy was someone who had too much to drink.

I've expressed my opinion on this before.. Yes, he wanted out. And.. Perhaps, I can't blame him.

Look at what the woman did to find him. If she was that way through the marriage.. I can kinda see him looking for a way out.

When you look back on news stories prior to his disappearance or newspaper articles.. There's a.. She's the leader in that relationship/business. Craig appears to be quite uncomfortable with it all.

I think you may have just had two completely different personalities that didn't mesh and Craig really didn't want to hurt her.. but underestimated the lengths she'd go to trying to find him.

James T
03-08-2021, 01:05 PM
This is one I have really changed my mind on. I think now it was simply a case of rushing into a marriage & finding out he didn't really love her-while she clearly was totally besotted with him, he ran up debts, was in over his head & concocted a way to get out.

Janel "Jaycee" Miller
10-15-2021, 06:35 PM
I was wondering whatever happened to the people in this case, and found this update about Christine's family:
https://www.codyenterprise.com/news/obituaries/article_9900e17c-d4c5-11e9-8de1-ebfdf81453b2.html

TheCars1986
10-18-2021, 08:23 AM
I was wondering whatever happened to the people in this case, and found this update about Christine's family:
https://www.codyenterprise.com/news/obituaries/article_9900e17c-d4c5-11e9-8de1-ebfdf81453b2.html

Herb seemed like a nice guy who wouldn't fake amnesia to get out of a marriage that was rushed.

Labonte18
10-18-2021, 12:59 PM
Herb seemed like a nice guy who wouldn't fake amnesia to get out of a marriage that was rushed.

Oh, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap.. Nice one.

I do kinda wonder if Craig is still among the vertical. He'd be fairly old at present.

cordwainer1453
10-18-2021, 04:57 PM
Hopefully she learned her lesson and didn't marry someone after a month of knowing them.

cordwainer1453
10-18-2021, 05:13 PM
I also liked this quote for the Unsolved Mysteries wiki:
"Finally, his bus seemed ill-equipped to bring fish back from Colorado; it had no tanks, fish food, or coolers."

Or So It Seems
10-19-2021, 09:52 AM
This is Christine Reinhard's Facebook page, not updated since 2009:
https://www.facebook.com/christine.houze.5

Seems like she built a good life for herself after UM.

I couldn't find anything about Craig Williamson.

Lit Up
12-25-2024, 02:21 PM
Interesting how people in the 80s and 90s thought that banging one's head and getting Amnesia was just something that happened to people all the time. Looks like at the start of this thread in 2007, a few posters in here still thought that was a plausible explanation, rather than this stupid man abandoning a woman who really, really cared about him.

TheCars1986
12-26-2024, 09:08 AM
The majority of amnesia cases featured on UM had the people who couldn't remember who they were reach out to UM with the hope that someone would identify them. Granted, I don't believe the majority of them were actually suffering from amnesia, but at least they tried to act like they were. Craig Williamson didn't. He ran off to Key West and found work as a handyman. If he legitimately had amnesia, how could he have functioned in society?

Lit Up
12-26-2024, 09:37 AM
The majority of amnesia cases featured on UM had the people who couldn't remember who they were reach out to UM with the hope that someone would identify them.

Sounds like a good way to publicly absolve oneself of being a fugitive from something.

Where is Craig Williamson now?

DALLASTEXAN!!
12-26-2024, 07:07 PM
his claims that he forgot about his wife are not fully believable. most of the posters in this thread seem to have that opinion. I feel bad for his ex wife's naivety. she had only met Craig recently and he had an alleged concussion which triggered most of her worry. she was likely blinded by the honeymoon phase that new couples often go through. that is usually the most vulnerable part of a marriage. So for Craig to "forget" about her and his other ex-wife seems rather convenient.


Craig allegedly had a concussion before he left. that cannot be overlooked. Concussions and TBI can cause people to act differently and have changes of personality. I have seen this with people that I know, yet none of them forgot about me. complete memory loss regarding his wife in this situation seems questionable.

DALLASTEXAN!!
12-26-2024, 07:08 PM
Kind of different I had a similar opinion about Charles Morgan's wife's naivety who believed a lot of his stories about working for the government when in reality he was most likely involved in money laundering activity and romping with green eyes. and yet she knew her husband for years.

cordwainer1453
12-27-2024, 12:45 PM
This is Christine Reinhard's Facebook page, not updated since 2009:
https://www.facebook.com/christine.houze.5

Seems like she built a good life for herself after UM.

I couldn't find anything about Craig Williamson.

Craig is not among her "friends"

MediaHoarder
12-30-2024, 02:36 AM
Kind of different I had a similar opinion about Charles Morgan's wife's naivety who believed a lot of his stories about working for the government when in reality he was most likely involved in money laundering activity and romping with green eyes. and yet she knew her husband for years.

I'm suspicous of Craig's story, but I don't see an issue with the Morgan case. He did tell her that he didn't want to share too much detail and what he did tell her seems to check out.

Labonte18
12-30-2024, 12:27 PM
Craig is not among her "friends"

Craig wasn't a spring chicken back when he went missing. He was 46 in 1990, so.. He'd be 80 now.

It's.. Not a stretch to think that he may have passed..

Anyway.. I've made my thoughts clear on this before.. His whole story stinks. I think, deep down, he was a very meek man who married someone very much the opposite. It didn't work, he wanted out.. Didn't want to hurt her and concocted a story where he went missing, figuring she'd grieve and move on.

He just didn't realize how doggedly she'd search for him.

Anyway.. A little searching.. He might have moved out to Idaho. Out in the Spokane/Coeur d'Alene area. I show who I think is him living out there, selling his house there in 2022.. Satellite images of the property... Lots of RVs and boats.

TheCars1986
12-30-2024, 01:14 PM
I forgot about how he instructed her to call him in the morning to wake him up so he could start the drive back to the fish farm. He knew what he was doing and knew she would panic when he didn't answer her call. Scumbag move.

cordwainer1453
12-30-2024, 04:18 PM
The bus had no fish gathering supplies in it and he had a wad of cash with him. How convenient?

Idiox
06-13-2026, 08:29 PM
Interesting how people in the 80s and 90s thought that banging one's head and getting Amnesia was just something that happened to people all the time. Looks like at the start of this thread in 2007, a few posters in here still thought that was a plausible explanation, rather than this stupid man abandoning a woman who really, really cared about him.

Interesting how people in the 00s and 10s thought that selflessness and love was just something that happened to people all the time. Looks like at the start of this thread in 2007, a few posters in here still thought that was a plausible explanation, rather than this gullible man abandoning a woman who really, really sank her claws into him.

It's obvious both of them are prone to hyper levels of emotionalism and that Craig got into something waaaaay more than he was ever thinking it would be. Who takes care of exotic fish at that level? She was nuts and he was desperate.

Gelatinous Goo
06-14-2026, 07:50 AM
Yes, I get the feeling that he was a down on his luck free spirit/drifter who saw financial stability that he could take advantage of, but the amount of work required of him conflicted with what was likely an extremely lackadaisical mindset that involved doing as little as possible. He was clearly emotionally immature. Having to take direction was likely not this guy's strong suit.

She came off as being very controlling and likely micromanaged him and the business to the point that he abandoned her. At the same time, she was desperate for love and obviously cared far more about him than the other way around. For him, it was just another woman to leech off of. I've seen both their types so many times in life. It never works out when these two disparate personality types converge. The person who is the most love starved also tends to be holding the purse strings and is blinded to being taken advantage of until it's too late.

Do we know if Craig ran off with much in the way of her money? I don't think the segment was very specific on that aspect. If he did, it wouldn't have been a large amount, I'm sure. I wonder if they had a joint bank account or if she controlled all the finances and simply doled out to him what was needed.

EighthStreet
06-15-2026, 09:40 AM
. Who takes care of exotic fish at that level? She was nuts and he was desperate.

I would hardly call tilapia farming "caring for exotic fish". They just invested too much money into something that nowadays is marketable, but at the time probably wasn't.

Jon
06-15-2026, 02:28 PM
Do we know if Craig ran off with much in the way of her money?

He left her with $400K in debt from the fish business. I had read this in a news article, but it is behind a paywall now so I can't access it anymore, but that tells me everything I need to know about why he left, and why she was so driven to find him. He was obviously responsbile for 1/2 of that liability. I wouldn't borrow that much in the first place, but if I was in her spot, I'd want Unsolved Mysteries to help me find him too.

Labonte18
06-15-2026, 03:57 PM
He left her with $400K in debt from the fish business. I had read this in a news article, but it is behind a paywall now so I can't access it anymore, but that tells me everything I need to know about why he left, and why she was so driven to find him. He was obviously responsbile for 1/2 of that liability. I wouldn't borrow that much in the first place, but if I was in her spot, I'd want Unsolved Mysteries to help me find him too.

Here's the only part that is.. Confusing to me.. It requires belief that witnesses were correct.. Specifically the people who supposedly saw him on the train up in the pacific northwest.

Now.. Everyone knows my feelings about eyewitnesses, but.. There were multiple that put him in that area.. And.. Even he said that he was actually up in that area after he was 'attacked'

So.. Did those people actually see him? Or is this just another mistaken eyewitness? Did he see that part of the UM broadcast, because.. We already know that he watched it.. Did he integrate parts of it to make his story stronger?

The eyewitness from the train, at least, was very believable. again.. You always have to take them with a grain of salt, but..

I'd probably lean towards the eyewitness being wrong and Craig just integrated that into his story.

Or.. It's also possible that he allowed himself to be seen, mumbling about 'the fish' to establish that as the search area.. While he scurried off to the exact opposite side of the country. Again, not quite realizing just how far Christine would go in trying to find him.. I'm sure he never expected to wind up on national television.

Gelatinous Goo
06-15-2026, 07:51 PM
Here's the only part that is.. Confusing to me.. It requires belief that witnesses were correct.. Specifically the people who supposedly saw him on the train up in the pacific northwest.

Now.. Everyone knows my feelings about eyewitnesses, but.. There were multiple that put him in that area.. And.. Even he said that he was actually up in that area after he was 'attacked'

So.. Did those people actually see him? Or is this just another mistaken eyewitness? Did he see that part of the UM broadcast, because.. We already know that he watched it.. Did he integrate parts of it to make his story stronger?

The eyewitness from the train, at least, was very believable. again.. You always have to take them with a grain of salt, but..

I'd probably lean towards the eyewitness being wrong and Craig just integrated that into his story.

Or.. It's also possible that he allowed himself to be seen, mumbling about 'the fish' to establish that as the search area.. While he scurried off to the exact opposite side of the country. Again, not quite realizing just how far Christine would go in trying to find him.. I'm sure he never expected to wind up on national television.

Funny, I had the exact same thoughts when watching this one the last time. I tend to believe the eyewitness, though seemingly credible, simply saw someone else.

What's with the relationship between UM, mistaken identity and fish? Were these the very same fish that the fake A.J. Breaux was trying to sell?

ghosthouse
06-16-2026, 07:29 AM
The online buzz around this case was always wild to me -- the ratio of real proof he decided to bolt on purpose : the number of people who are furious that he decided to bolt on purpose is WAY out of whack IMO.

Gelatinous Goo
06-16-2026, 11:18 AM
You think more people should believe his story?

Sorry, not buying it for a second. Neither is practically anyone else by the looks of it.

ghosthouse
06-16-2026, 01:06 PM
You think more people should believe his story?

Sorry, not buying it for a second. Neither is practically anyone else by the looks of it.

Well that's what i said - there are a TON of people that don't believe him...it's just that a lot of them call him out as a scumbag when they can't really ever know for sure.

Allierain
06-17-2026, 09:26 AM
Well that's what i said - there are a TON of people that don't believe him...it's just that a lot of them call him out as a scumbag when they can't really ever know for sure.

You’re not wrong. It’s always been like this with Paul Beale too, the “there is little to no evidence he lied but I think he did and I’m glad he’s now a vegetable” kind of thing. It escalates quickly.