I grew up watching Unsolved Mysteries and was really pleased to stumble upon this message board. I have ordered a number of dvds from Crystal Dawn and as I continue watching them I hope to discuss some of the more interesting cases. The first case which comes to mind is that of Anthonette Cayedito.

Summary: Anthonette was 9 years old when, in the middle of the night, she disappeared from her home in New Mexico. A little over a year later, 911 received a call from her saying her name and stating that she was in Alberquerque but the call was cut short by a man screaming, “Who told you you could use the phone?. The call was untraceable but at least we know that Anthonette was alive at that time and not murdered immediately.

Another unsubstantiated (yet likely) sighting was a few years later when a girl, 14-15 years old at the time, was spotted in a diner with an unkempt couple. The little girl kept dropping her silverware on the floor and when the waitress leaned down to pick it up, the girl would squeeze her arm. After this couple left, the waitress found a note hidden under the girl’s plate saying, “Help me! Call police!”

Also, late in the episode Anthonette’s mother is seen consulting with a Native American psychic who tells her that Anthonette is still alive, being held against her will by threats of violence and has a child. She is somewhere in the Southwest far from any town or city. The police were astonished to hear this as it matches their theories about what has happened to her.

My thoughts:

1. This was an inside job by an acquaintance of the family, not somebody they knew well but somebody whom they had perhaps met once or who had seen them. An acquaintance of a member of their extended family or of a neighbor. Also, I think they did not specifically target Anthonette but were going to grab whichever little girl opened the door, had one of her sisters opened it, they would have grabbed her. I would be curious to hear what the police think about this idea, if they feel she was specifically targeted or... for example, I don’t know what would have happened had her mother answered the door. Her family is adamant that Anthonette would not have opened the door had the kidnappers not said, “It’s your Uncle Joe”. Thus, her family was targeted by somebody who had direct knowledge of, at least, their extended family.

2. I was surprised by the fact that it said it was two men who kidnapped her and not one. As there were at least two people involved in the kidnapping, this doubles the chance that one of them would brag or boast of his deed yet this has not happened in this case. After her kidnapping, nothing- no leads, no tips, nada- for close to a year before her 911 call.

Also, on another website where Anthonette is profiled, they claim that one of the men is black and another Hispanic. I wonder how they knew this or if this is accurate information as it is not mentioned on the show and on the show her sister clearly says that she did not get a look at the men who grabbed her.

3. Even if the Nevada diner sighting was not, in fact, Anthonette, we know that she was alive for at least one year after she was kidnapped. My heart goes out to that poor, poor girl and her family. Why keep a 10 year old alive and captive for at least a year? And under what circumstances was she being kept if she could at least grab a phone somehow and make a call?

4. Other websites claim that police now believe she is dead as it is 20 years since her disappearance and there have been no sightings or even recent tips. I wonder what happened to this poor little girl and why the police now have changed their opinion- as of her UM profiling, police believed she was still alive and being held against her will.

5. It is my personal feeling that the police believe she is being held as a slave or house-girl for somebody- while it was not spelled out per se, the police on the show said that they were surprised when the psychics vision (still alive, with child) was in-line with their suspicions. I think that this is at what they were hinting.

I have found myself thinking more and more about this case since I first viewed it on the UM Favorites Vol. 2 as Anthonette and I are almost exactly the same age. I think of all the experiences I have had since I was 9 when Anthonette disappeared. My thoughts and prayers go out to her family and I pray that she is either at peace or can soon escape from her captors. However, the sheer amount of time which has passed with no news from her as well as the fact that she would now be almost 30 years old does not make me optimistic as to her wellbeing.

Any thoughts, ideas, impressions?

Nice to see you on the board Fabgourmet! :) Yes I agree with you that Anthonette has a strong likelihood of being alive today. The sighting at the diner in my opinion is credible especially considering the "help me" napkin. Since she would be an adult now it is possible that she has broken away from her abductors (lets hope so anyway) and may have no conscious memory of her life before she was kidnapped. Yes it does seem strange that there were two people specifically targeting that house. I mean how many kidnappers knock on the doorl?? I think the fact there were two people would give a stronger likelihood that it was some sort of cult or somewhere where there were other children being held. I also think that they at least knew a little about Anthonette to know that she at that time had an Uncle Joe. I also agree that they would have taken whichever girl came to the door and if both had answered they would have no doubt taken them both. All we can hope for at this point is that she is still alive and has broken away and leading some semblance of a normal life and that the people responsible will be captured one day.

Now dont yell at me, but something tells me that she was killed at her home and the whole kidnapping thing was made up and the sisters were forced to lie. Is there any possibility that she was killed by a family member, or died accidentally and there is a big cover up?

Here's another odd but true personal story that somewhat relates to UM. This particulary story relates to the Anthonette Cayedito case.

Several months back, I was cleaning up the lobby at the hotel where I work, which I usually do when there's down time. I came across again a piece of paper on the floor that I had seen several times earlier in my shift, but had ignored. I finally got around to picking it up and was preparing to throw it in the trash, when I realized it said "help me" on it. I instantaneously thought of this case. I had wondered if the note was legit or not. When my relief came, I mentioned the note and the UM case. She said it was actually common for people that come to the hotel for meetings to write stuff like that on memo pads when the meetings get too boring for them.

Anyways, I do think the sighting at the diner was legitimate. I also tend to believe the psychic they profiled.

I've enjoyed reading all your thoughts on this case and also believe the men who kidnapped Anthonette had to have some kind of connection to the family (as Crystaldawn said they knew enough to know there was an Uncle Joe). I believe the diner sighting was legitimate and think there's a possibility Anthonette is still alive. This poor woman may remember her family and know how to find them, but who knows what the kidnappers told her or threatened her with when she was held captive? How I wish Unsolved Mysteries would be brought back...to profile new cases and also look into older, still unsolved cases like this one.

Sorry to resurrect this old thread which I originally started, in fact, but I just watched this segment again last night and had two additional thoughts:

1. On Anthonette's 911 call, the man screaming at her says, "Who said you could use the phone?" Actually, this sentence itself is telling because had Anthonette been alone with this abuser, I feel he would have said, "Did I say you could use the phone?" While this is pure speculation, this comment makes me think that this man was not alone with Anthonette, that more than one person was watching her or keeping her captive.

2. Anthonette would be 30 on Christmas Day. As I commented earlier in this thread, she and I would be about the same age and I think that is one reason why this case bothers me so. While I would like to send the family a card letting them know that my thoughts and prayers are with them, I am not sure that such a gesture would be appreciated. Also, I couldn't really find much information about them online aside from sending such a card to the Gallup police... has anyone contacted a family in this manner before?

I've enjoyed reading all your thoughts on this case and also believe the men who kidnapped Anthonette had to have some kind of connection to the family (as Crystaldawn said they knew enough to know there was an Uncle Joe). I believe the diner sighting was legitimate and think there's a possibility Anthonette is still alive. This poor woman may remember her family and know how to find them, but who knows what the kidnappers told her or threatened her with when she was held captive? How I wish Unsolved Mysteries would be brought back...to profile new cases and also look into older, still unsolved cases like this one.
Joe is such a common name, perhaps they just took a chance.

Sorry to resurrect this old thread which I originally started, in fact, but I just watched this segment again last night and had two additional thoughts:

1. On Anthonette's 911 call, the man screaming at her says, "Who said you could use the phone?" Actually, this sentence itself is telling because had Anthonette been alone with this abuser, I feel he would have said, "Did I say you could use the phone?" While this is pure speculation, this comment makes me think that this man was not alone with Anthonette, that more than one person was watching her or keeping her captive.
2. Anthonette would be 30 on Christmas Day. As I commented earlier in this thread, she and I would be about the same age and I think that is one reason why this case bothers me so. While I would like to send the family a card letting them know that my thoughts and prayers are with them, I am not sure that such a gesture would be appreciated. Also, I couldn't really find much information about them online aside from sending such a card to the Gallup police... has anyone contacted a family in this manner before?
That's an excellent point, when I read that, I didn't think about it, but I just subconciously (I probably butchered the word) just assumed there were more than 1 captors.

This was indeed a sad case. Personally, I think Anthonette may have been forced into prostitution and that her abductors chose not to kill her because she was making them such good money as a prostitute. Also, I think that Anthonette is more than likely still alive, perhaps having been brainwashed by her captors or suffering from amnesia.

If she has been brainwashed she probably will read,see, or hear something and realize what really happened.at least I hope shje does

Joe is such a common name, perhaps they just took a chance.

That was my thought exactly when I saw the segment --- so many people have an "Uncle Joe," it's worth a shot if you are trying to gain entry.

Besides, I'm not sure how credible her little sister is --- how much of what she said happened can be taken for gospel? It took her a long time to come up with the story we are all accepting for fact, and in that time it would have been easy for her to misremember details or forget crucial elements of what happened. I'm not saying she's lying, just that it's hard to know how accurate an account first given by a little girl so many years after the event itself had taken place can be.

I'm actually somehwat intrigued by the idea that the kidnapping was a later fabrication suggested by mistagee, though I think the telephone call to 911 makes that possibility significantly less likely. The call originiated in New Mexico, and it's an awfully tacky thing to attempt, especially over a year after the disappearance, if you're just trying to cover up the nature of what happened. Why make a cold trail a hot one, even if what you are doing is intentionally misleading?

Unfortunately, I think it is very unlikely Anthonette Cayedito is alive after all these years. The 911 call is compelling, but I honestly don't think it's that credible in the last analysis. If she was able to get to a phone once in the first year after she was kidnapped, and was being kept alive to be a prostitute, there would have been other opportunities before or since for her to make similar attempts to escape. It seems more like a cruel prank to me, although I will say that her unusual name makes this slightly less likely.

At any rate, one can hope she is alive, and I'll conceded that is perhaps more likely in this case than in some others that UM profiled, but I still think she is much more likely another Amy Billig.

Hi, Mozartpc27,

Thanks for digging up this old thread. Perhaps my favorite case of all time. As an aside, if I had to choose a Mozartpc name, it would end in 25 (503) but alas, that is fodder for another board.

I have the feeling that Antoinette is probably deceased at this point but I think that her 911 call is genuine, I mean her mother Penny positively identifies her voice based on the way she says her last name and also based on the way she starts screaming. I think it is Antoinette.

I’m divided about the later restaurant sighting. I think somebody was definitely in need of police assistance but who knows if it was Antoinette.

I strongly believe that whomever kidnapped Antoinette knew the family and knowingly used this Uncle Joe ruse as a way to get one of the girls to open the door. I think it is a safe assumption that the kidnappers knew there were young girls in that family so as to target it specifically- I mean, I don’t think that the kidnappers just showed up at some random house and knocked on the door at 3 AM hoping a young girl would answer the door so they could kidnap her- so I think they knew enough about the Cayedito girls to know that they had an Uncle Joe.

As I stated in my original post, I think it is like a friend of a friend of the family or somebody who knew their neighbors and saw them around the neighborhood or saw the girls at school and could somehow discreetly collect information about them. I mean, there were 2 men who successfully carried out a kidnapping without leaving a trace of evidence for years and years. I don’t think that can be done with at least a little preparation.

In any event, I think that Antoinette was certainly not killed immediately and was alive for at least a year after the kidnapping, probably longer, until her mid-to-late teens, but is probably dead today.

I’ll return to lurker mode now until somebody brings up some news about Cindy Anderson, Jane B. posts again or it is confirmed that Kathy Hobbs’ sister is actually giving update info…

-fab1

PS Heather, of course I love your new aviator.

Hi, Mozartpc27,

Thanks for digging up this old thread. Perhaps my favorite case of all time. As an aside, if I had to choose a Mozartpc name, it would end in 25 (503) but alas, that is fodder for another board.

I have the feeling that Antoinette is probably deceased at this point but I think that her 911 call is genuine, I mean her mother Penny positively identifies her voice based on the way she says her last name and also based on the way she starts screaming. I think it is Antoinette.

I’m divided about the later restaurant sighting. I think somebody was definitely in need of police assistance but who knows if it was Antoinette.

I strongly believe that whomever kidnapped Antoinette knew the family and knowingly used this Uncle Joe ruse as a way to get one of the girls to open the door. I think it is a safe assumption that the kidnappers knew there were young girls in that family so as to target it specifically- I mean, I don’t think that the kidnappers just showed up at some random house and knocked on the door at 3 AM hoping a young girl would answer the door so they could kidnap her- so I think they knew enough about the Cayedito girls to know that they had an Uncle Joe.

As I stated in my original post, I think it is like a friend of a friend of the family or somebody who knew their neighbors and saw them around the neighborhood or saw the girls at school and could somehow discreetly collect information about them. I mean, there were 2 men who successfully carried out a kidnapping without leaving a trace of evidence for years and years. I don’t think that can be done with at least a little preparation.

In any event, I think that Antoinette was certainly not killed immediately and was alive for at least a year after the kidnapping, probably longer, until her mid-to-late teens, but is probably dead today.

I’ll return to lurker mode now until somebody brings up some news about Cindy Anderson, Jane B. posts again or it is confirmed that Kathy Hobbs’ sister is actually giving update info…

-fab1

PS Heather, of course I love your new aviator.

25, 27, they are all good --- I'm rather fond of 20 and 21 myself, in addition to 27. But the third movement of 27 has always been my favorite.

As for Anthonette, I think the major problem here is that the story everyone is running with (by necessity) comes from a girl who was 5 years old when the kidnapping took place, but was 10 when she related the details of the incident. Five years is a long time to forget or confuse or otherwise distort events in one's mind; this problem is only made more accute given her age at the time Anthonette was kidnapped. Who among us can really give accurate, detailed accounts of things that happened when we were 5? I remember snippets of things that happened at that age, but I was too young to understand the context of everything going on around me, so I'm sure the way I remember most incidents is something of a distortion of the truth.

As others have pointed out in this thread, this is an unusual method of kidnapping; the kidnappers, assuming the story is accurate, could not have predicted who would answer the door so late at night. Perhaps this means no one was specifically targeted, that instead it was either a relative or friend hoping simply to grab someone or someone who had cased the house hoping to nab a girl.

In any event, however, I would think that the target certainly was one of the two little girls, and not the mother; but, if the mother had answered the door, all would have been lost. For this reason, I kind of doubt the veracity of her sister's account in its entirety. Whoever did this would have wanted to make SURE there would be an opportunity to grab one of the girls --- why use a method that leaves that to chance?

As I think about it, I wonder if Anthonette hadn't made previous arrangement to see somebody, perhaps an older man that she naively trusted but who she knew her mother would not approve her going out with, and that this man kidnapped her. Just one possibility.

hi first time poster, im going to have to agree with the theory that unfortunatly she has probally been killed even though theres a slim chance she may have escaped and is now living a new life i just can never get my head round why someone wouldnt make a run for it or if they let her go,come back home as it was clear how much her mother missed her.
the reason why this case has interested me is because at the moment there is a massive story in yhe U.K about a 4 year old girl called maddeline who was snatched from her apartment while on holliday in portugal while she was sleeping yet her younger twin brother and sister were left and there have been no sightings or anything and it just seemed to have an weird connection

I believe Penny Cayedito had three daughters.

Joe is a common name (my middle name in fact), but I don't think it's as common of name for Navajos. I could be totally wrong. This makes me believe it was somebody that knew the Cayeditos. Or it could be that the girl didn't know a Joe, but might have been thrown off when the guy said "It's Uncle Joe". Perhaps she didn't know of that uncle, but assumed it was legit. The kidnapper must have had some knowledge, I would imagine. What if the person that opened the door was a guy and a bodybuilder? What then?

I'm not sure what to make of the 911 call. One one hand, the mother seems to be certain it's her daughter (as fabgourment pointed out), and she said it sent chills up her spine. That makes it sound like the caller was Antoinette. However, the girl keeps repeating her name over and over, taking a chance that the 911 person knows who it is. The girl doesn't ask for help. I'm torn on this part of the case.

I'm also not sure of what to make about the sister's recalling of how Antoinette was kidnapped. I really can't blame the kid, but according to her, she just goes back to bed as if nothing happened. Later, she would state that she did nothing for fear of being punished, but why would she be punished? if anything, she would be helping out, and Antoinette could have possibly been located quickly after the incident.

It is true that we don't remember much from when we were five years old or thereabouts, however it is possible that a five year old's mind would have been more alert if they knew something major was happening, and in this case it was. Or it could be the exact opposite. As I mentioned recently, sometimes the mind blocks out the bad that's happening as a method of dealing with it. Understandable as well.

I would make more of an attempt to escape if I figured I was going to be held captive for a long time or forever, but I can understand why Antoinette didn't make a run for it, if she got caught that could have meant the end.

hi first time poster, im going to have to agree with the theory that unfortunatly she has probally been killed even though theres a slim chance she may have escaped and is now living a new life

Then let me be the first to say Hola y Bienvenido! (That's Spanish for Hello and Welcome... just trying to shout out a little diversity over here... ;))

In any case, we're glad to have you! :wave:

Anthonette was my neighborhor's little cousin and we used to play together whenever she was around my house and vice versa. After all these years I never once forgot her or the moment her family told us what had happened to her. There are tons of abandoned mineshafts and natural caves around Sunshine Canyon where I lived and we used to search them as kids looking for her. From what we were told by my neighbor was there was a party goin on that night and maybe that's why she was even awake at that hour and a brown pick up was seen leaving by a neighbor with one man in it around that time. Everyone parties just about in NM so I never questioned that at all. I wish she could be found to provide closure. She was my friend and she was nice and we got along and I think I'm about to cry now.

A new, 2007 composite has been released of how Anthonette may look now has been released, I found it on a couple of websites.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/cayedito_anthonette.html

Also, several websites claim that police believe Anthonette was taken out of state immediately upon her abduction but it is unclear why they state that; on her 911 call, she says she is in Albuquerque.

Also, many places mention that police now believe that she is dead. I think, sadly, this may be the case but I don't understand why police state this other than the fact that so many years have gone by with no news and it seems unlikely that she is alive.

Hmmm. Anthonette was born on Xmas day, she would be 31 in just a few days...

As I was reading through the story and subsequent replies, I came up with a couple of theories of my own:

1. I agree with previous posters in saying that this so-called "uncle joe" person could have just been anyone relying on a lucky guess that the family did indeed have an uncle joe. Also could have been a family friend (some children call adults who are family friends aunts and uncles) Also as far as Joe not being a native american name, it isn't but the person could have been native american, but just with an Americanized name.

2. Not sure about the sexual slavery thing, not saying that angle isn't correct, but b/c i am not from the southwest I would have no knowledge of these types of things occurring there.

3. If she was kidnapped for some sort of sexual slavery or prostitution, then there is a distinct possibility that she was moved to Mexico, especially to a more lawless frontier portion of that nation. I think that this would fit in with the description of the psychic, as there are many places in Mexico that could be considered far from any city or town. It would also fit well with the description of one of the men as being hispanic.

4. I just don't know where to fit the help me note. Obviously she would try to get out of the situation, if still alive, and if she had not developed some form of Stockholm Syndrome. If she did leave the note, maybe the kidnapper/kidnappers got wise to her, and subsequently took her south of the border

Yeah they knew the family by the sounds of it. Uncle Joe, I mean that wouldnt be too hard to figure out. Quick, off all of the people you know how many of them do you know the name of at least one uncle? I can think of a ton right off the bat.

Yeah they knew the family by the sounds of it. Uncle Joe, I mean that wouldnt be too hard to figure out. Quick, off all of the people you know how many of them do you know the name of at least one uncle? I can think of a ton right off the bat.

Just to throw my two pence in...

I haven't seen this segment, or if I have it was long enough ago that I don't remember it. I do have a five yr old though and I can tell you they are really observant and full of questions. Would he remember something 5 yrs from now that happened today? He might, but I wouldn't trust it 100%

A few things I have read from the other posters just doesn't make sense. Someone mentioned it was 3 am when the kidnapping occured. This seems odd to me, because I know from experiance young children sleep like rocks (a bomb could go off next to my sons head and he wouldn't wake up) so a knock on the door def wouldn't wake one up. I also find it odd that the two little children would open the door and not go get their parents when they heard the knocking. Nighttime is very scary to little kids, especially when their imagnations are running wild, and I can't see them opening the door.

As for the Uncle Joe thing, I think it was like someone else mentioned...just a lucky guess. Or maybe the guys that did it were scouting out the house for awhile.

I think there is a good chance she might still be alive, but then you have to wonder if she is, why hasn't she contacted her family?

A few things I have read from the other posters just doesn't make sense. Someone mentioned it was 3 am when the kidnapping occured. This seems odd to me, because I know from experiance young children sleep like rocks (a bomb could go off next to my sons head and he wouldn't wake up) so a knock on the door def wouldn't wake one up. I also find it odd that the two little children would open the door and not go get their parents when they heard the knocking. Nighttime is very scary to little kids, especially when their imagnations are running wild, and I can't see them opening the door.

I always had a big problem with that, too. What 5 year-old is up at 3 in the morning, let alone answers the door at 3 in the morning? There has to be something in that's not being told in the segment.

Just read this thread. My two cents...

I find it hard to believe she could still be alive all of these years later. I do think it is likely that she was alive for at least a year after the kidnapping, possibly forced into prostitution or child slavery. I do feel that the 911 call was legitimate. If it was some kind of a sick prank, it was pretty ballsy to call 911 since 911 calls are more easily traced. Also, the call came a year after Anthonette was abducted. If it was a prank, it was kind of esoteric since her abduction was probably old news and forgotten by the public at large at that point. I don't know what to make of the restaurant sighting. I think it could have easily been someone needing police assistance (as one poster said), but I'm not entirely convinced that the girl was Anthonette. As for the kidnapping story and "Uncle Joe", I think we have to consider the source and take this story with a huge grain of salt. The abduction could have gone down in an entirely different way, and she's misremembering the details.

I'll throw my two cents in

1. I'm very convinced that there is much, much more to this story than a simple child abduction. I agree with all posters that I find it hard to believe that Antoinette would have just let in her abductors like that at that time of night. It's almost like she was expecting "Uncle Joe" to arrive at that hour. :confused:

2. I have a suspicion that her little sister might have been coached in her story and that the events did not occur as she explained. It seemed just a little to convenient that she starts to open up about this story all of a sudden with such detail and specifics.

3. I don't understand the motive of kidnapping her and keeping her prisoner all this long??? I also don;t understand why Antoinette didn't attempt an escape. If she's brave enough to write that note, she's probably brave enough to chance an escape. I think that story was made up or it was a completly different person looking for help.

4. I really think if you looked into Antoinette's father and her "uncle joe" you'll see some suspicious prior activity.

Essentially what I am saying is that there is a lie or two in this chain, somewhere.

For some reason, this case has long been one that interested me as well (like fabgourmet, maybe it's b/c anthonette is just a couple months older than i)...

anyway, i have doubts about the sister's story. It's not that I think she's been coached or covering up anything (frankly, I presume that scenario was investigated and eliminated as the first step of any LE investigation), but I find it difficult, if not impossible, to believe that a child would have such a clear memory of events 5 years prior. As some of the other posters have stated, it just doesn't make sense, either. Why would the children hear a 3am knock on the door, but not the mom... moreover, why would they answer it? I know when I was that age (and being the same age, we would have shared some common cultural aspects), I never would have acted in such a manner. Accordingly, I give little to no way to the "Uncle Joe" or two kidnappers aspects of the story.

The waitress sighting, perhaps legit, perhaps not. Eyewitness sightings are notoriously unreliable in the first place. Moreover, if the girl could write "Help me please" on the napkin unobserved by her handlers, why couldn't she have otherwise run off? It doesn't make sense to me: the napkin would indicate a desire to flee, being brought out into public would give the means to flee, yet no real action was, or has been taken.

I put no weight on the native seer, nor any other paranormal "visions"

Lastly, the 911 call. While we have to admit the possability of a cruel hoax (common, sadly), the call was different from many in that the caller provided information (not merely responding to prompts), spoke in a clear voice (not the whispered or garbled voice one oft hears in hoax calls) and is a child (a child, i think, is less likely to commit a hoax than an adult).

If the 911 call is real, it raises the distrubing possability that anthonette was kept alive and against her will for at least a year. I can't see any good motive behind this action and it is logical to presume she had been kept for sexual use.

At this point, however, I have to think Anthonette is likely dead. Even if we presume she was kept alive for some time after the abduction, it would likely only be a matter of time before someone who retained knowledge of her past life and was trying to get help would be more trouble than she was worth. That no further contact attempts have been made in 20 years doesn't bode well. If she is alive, you would have to presume she doesn't remember who she is (through the use of physical and/or psychological torture and/or drugs) and is kept in a state of virtual slavery. It's possible, I suppose, but hard to fathom.

I don't know much about Anthionette's case. From reading all the posts, I gather that her 5 year old sister opened the door to an intruder at 3:00am? Is this correct?

While that must be quite unusual, I know it does happen. A friend of mine lived in an apartment complex in a not so great part of town. While she was busy in the kitchen at about 9pm, there was a knock at the door. Her 4 or 5 year old daughter was close to the door, she answered it and opened it right up to a stranger who was there to do the family harm.

Luckily, coming out from the kitchen, the mom had a knife in her hand, was a big woman, and was able to force the man out of her house.

That no further contact attempts have been made in 20 years doesn't bode well. If she is alive, you would have to presume she doesn't remember who she is (through the use of physical and/or psychological torture and/or drugs) and is kept in a state of virtual slavery. It's possible, I suppose, but hard to fathom.

It should also be noted, that as with Amy Billig, she may be completely on her own away from her captors. She's well over 25 years of age.

For whatever reason Antoinette may not want to return to her family or may not even know who they are.

I don't know much about Anthionette's case. From reading all the posts, I gather that her 5 year old sister opened the door to an intruder at 3:00am? Is this correct?

Yes. Anthonette's younger sister Wendy (who I believe was five years old at the time this was supposed to have transpired) relayed this story to investigators five years later, at the age of 10. The reason she gave for not offering this testimony earlier was that because her mother was "crying" (distraught and grieving), she was afraid she would "get in trouble" for telling such a story.

Somehow I missed this segment up until today.

I don't like to point the doubting finger at kids, because I know it takes courage for them to come forward when they are scared. But you know, something about the sister's story just doesn't sit right with me. How could a five year old witness something so terrifying and keep it a secret for so long? Surely she would have been questioned by her mother and the police, none of them suspected that she knew more than she was telling? They couldn't see something was bothering her?

Then suddenly at age ten, she comes forward with a very detailed account of what happened that night. What provoked this?

The little sister would now be in her late twenties, I wonder what information she could offer if questioned today.


I just think there has to be something more to this story.

I always thought there was a possibility that Anthonette's father could be involved in her disappearance somehow, did the police ever look into that?

I don't think I remember UM ever telling us if Penny was living with Anthonette's dad or not so I figured they were separated or divorced.

When investigating a case like this you have to have a starting point. Sometimes starting points have to start with inconsistencies. I see a lot of inconsistencies out there with the information that we do know.

First, why is she answering the door at 3am. Wouldn't she known who uncle joe is? How come the neighbors didn't hear anything. Everything is possible but everything at once happening...probably not coincidental. This is a mark 1 for suspicion. How was the mother not opening the door...wouldn't she have heard the knocking? If i were to kidnap that late at night, the last thing in hell i'm going to do is knock, why not break into the house quietly.

Second, why her? Kidnappings usually have ransom or sexual or some sort of motive. There was no motive here. People who steal children and raise them up on their own are usually go young unless they thought she could be their wife or something (elizabeth smart).

Third, the only person who can identify the child's voice is the mother. Which is sort of strange. Lets have someone else who knew anthonette analyze that call.

fourth, why did the sister tell that story five whole years later. Strange.

fifth, no body. why was there no body. most bodies are found. this means if there is a body there is intent to probably hide it.

This points the finger squarely on the mother. I think the mother accidentily killed her daughter somehow. Knowing she would lose her kids and her family would be broken, they colluded hide the truth. I think you might see the daughters come out after their mom dies.


EDIT: I also have a strong suspicion she was concealing something in her interviews by the way she was constnatly licking her lips. Also, mastermind said it right if she was so brave to open the door at 3am in the morning by a voice claimimng to be uncle joe when she didnt' recognize the voice and brave enough to call 911...she is probably brave enough to escape especially after all these years.

First, why is she answering the door at 3am. Wouldn't she known who uncle joe is? How come the neighbors didn't hear anything. Everything is possible but everything at once happening...probably not coincidental. This is a mark 1 for suspicion. How was the mother not opening the door...wouldn't she have heard the knocking? If i were to kidnap that late at night, the last thing in hell i'm going to do is knock, why not break into the house quietly.

You know something just occurred to me. How the heck would the abductor know that Antoinette would be the one to open the door? He must have either had prior knowledge or staked out the place beforehand.

The fact that he said "Uncle Joe" almost indicates that he knew one of the children was going to answer the door.

Were they prepared to take the child if the mother answered the door? :confused:


Second, why her? Kidnappings usually have ransom or sexual or some sort of motive. There was no motive here. People who steal children and raise them up on their own are usually go young unless they thought she could be their wife or something (elizabeth smart).

It's rare but their are some cases of husband-wife kidnappers who have taken a teenager for the purpose of a sex slave.

But your point is taken. I tend to believe that these sightings are incorrect.

Third, the only person who can identify the child's voice is the mother. Which is sort of strange. Lets have someone else who knew anthonette analyze that call.

Very True.

fourth, why did the sister tell that story five whole years later. Strange.

And even more important, how accurate is her memory from that time period and is she embellishing details.

fifth, no body. why was there no body. most bodies are found. this means if there is a body there is intent to probably hide it.

Considering their proximity to the desert and the Mexican Border. I am not surprised the body hasn't been found. It really depends on how well the perps plan to get rid of the body is. Most bodies are found because the perp is too lazy to dispose of the body properly.

I have three working theories on this case:

1. One is that someone in Antoinette's family killed her by accident or molested her and disposed of the body somewhere in the desert or on the reservation.

2. That this is a "parental" type abduction of some type. When I mean "parental" I mean that someone that she knew abducted her with the intent on raising her. I'm not necessarily accusing the father on this. But perhaps a relative. Hell maybe even Uncle Joe.

3. That Antoinette was killed or abducted as "payback" by some "sgroup" that Antoinette's father or Uncle Joe got involved in. I would not rule out some form of "slavery", Tribal dispute or drugs.

I always look forward to your posts mastermind (complement). However, although i believe in analyzing all theories, i believe in narrowing in on the odds. I have problems with some of these theories.

I have three working theories on this case:

1. One is that someone in Antoinette's family killed her by accident or molested her and disposed of the body somewhere in the desert or on the reservation.

THis is most likely in my opinion. There was no sign of a struggle. No loud noises (crying) ...no past history of violence/abuse...etc. Most likely it had to be an accident. Until we find a body however, there's no way of knwoing exactly. But most likely it was some sort of accident.

2. That this is a "parental" type abduction of some type. When I mean "parental" I mean that someone that she knew abducted her with the intent on raising her. I'm not necessarily accusing the father on this. But perhaps a relative. Hell maybe even Uncle Joe.

I'm not buying this. Usually some parental abduction would involve some sort of attachment to child. Relatives would have been monitored. THere's no way she could have been living with them and people not notice that someoen got a 9 year old child out of blue. THey would have also had to be on run and all of a sudden disappeared making themselves suspicious. Even if it were someone trying to raise a child...desparate childless couple, why her? I think this theory is unlikely.

3. That Antoinette was killed or abducted as "payback" by some "sgroup" that Antoinette's father or Uncle Joe got involved in. I would not rule out some form of "slavery", Tribal dispute or drugs.


1) THis is most likely in my opinion. There was no sign of a struggle. No loud noises (crying) ...no past history of violence/abuse...etc. Most likely it had to be an accident. Until we find a body however, there's no way of knwoing exactly. But most likely it was some sort of accident.

3) I dont buy this much either. If they wanted to pay someone back, why kill an innocent child. Why not go directly after whoever it is you have beef with. Your killing is meant to send a message so why do a repulsive killing which would have little support within your own organization and why would you want body to be missing to send a message? I think this is still a small possibility though. Also, how would that explain the phone calls? THey wanted to give false hope she was alive for a payback killling? doesn't make whole lot of sense to me.


2) I'm not buying this. Usually some parental abduction would involve some sort of attachment to child. Relatives would have been monitored. THere's no way she could have been living with them and people not notice that someoen got a 9 year old child out of blue. THey would have also had to be on run and all of a sudden disappeared making themselves suspicious. Even if it were someone trying to raise a child...desparate childless couple, why her? I think this theory is unlikely.I dont buy this much either. If they wanted to pay someone back, why kill an innocent child. Why not go directly after whoever it is you have beef with. Your killing is meant to send a message so why do a repulsive killing which would have little support within your own organization and why would you want body to be missing to send a message? I think this is still a small possibility though. Also, how would that explain the phone calls? THey wanted to give false hope she was alive for a payback killling? doesn't make whole lot of sense to me.


Just asking questions and going through a thought process. However, the accidental death coverup is most likely to me.

I also have a strong suspicion she was concealing something in her interviews by the way she was constnatly licking her lips

I rewatched this segment after reading some of your guys recent comments. Phanekim you are right on about her lip licking she seems to do it at the close of every discussion she has during the interviews.

So after seeing this i did some simple facial indications of lying research online and every place I looked said that lip licking was a strong indicator that one was being lied too.

I have no idea what happened to that poor little girl but perhaps the mom does know something that she is not admitting too.

I rewatched this segment after reading some of your guys recent comments. Phanekim you are right on about her lip licking she seems to do it at the close of every discussion she has during the interviews.

So after seeing this i did some simple facial indications of lying research online and every place I looked said that lip licking was a strong indicator that one was being lied too.

I have no idea what happened to that poor little girl but perhaps the mom does know something that she is not admitting too.

if my suspicions hold up, the answer really lies within the family. Thats the only way to get to the truth. Frustrating case for sure. Whenever you have a drug/gang case its always seems hard because of a group of people colluding.

Hmm, very interesting to read your comments, Phanekim. While I hear what you guys are saying about the mother being involved somehow, why would she want to draw all that unnecessary attention to herself by going on national TV? It seems a bit too risky IMO.

Assuming she was lying, the motive for which is uncertain, she would have to continue to do anything and everything she could to keep the lie going. The detectives or other friends/family could have suggested unsolved mysteries etc and she would have no choice but to go along with it or risk being exposed.

Assuming she was lying, the motive for which is uncertain, she would have to continue to do anything and everything she could to keep the lie going. The detectives or other friends/family could have suggested unsolved mysteries etc and she would have no choice but to go along with it or risk being exposed.

i agree. If a body was ever found law enforcement would have a starting point. If you watch segment, I believe the local authority guy who seemed indian descent too was not skeptical of her while the fbi guy was somewhat skeptical if you ask me. I wonder if LE has even asked her the tough questions that I've asked here. i really really wonder what they know.

When investigating a case like this you have to have a starting point. Sometimes starting points have to start with inconsistencies. I see a lot of inconsistencies out there with the information that we do know.

First, why is she answering the door at 3am. Wouldn't she known who uncle joe is? How come the neighbors didn't hear anything. Everything is possible but everything at once happening...probably not coincidental. This is a mark 1 for suspicion. How was the mother not opening the door...wouldn't she have heard the knocking? If i were to kidnap that late at night, the last thing in hell i'm going to do is knock, why not break into the house quietly.

Second, why her? Kidnappings usually have ransom or sexual or some sort of motive. There was no motive here. People who steal children and raise them up on their own are usually go young unless they thought she could be their wife or something (elizabeth smart).

Third, the only person who can identify the child's voice is the mother. Which is sort of strange. Lets have someone else who knew anthonette analyze that call.

fourth, why did the sister tell that story five whole years later. Strange.

fifth, no body. why was there no body. most bodies are found. this means if there is a body there is intent to probably hide it.

This points the finger squarely on the mother. I think the mother accidentily killed her daughter somehow. Knowing she would lose her kids and her family would be broken, they colluded hide the truth. I think you might see the daughters come out after their mom dies.


EDIT: I also have a strong suspicion she was concealing something in her interviews by the way she was constnatly licking her lips. Also, mastermind said it right if she was so brave to open the door at 3am in the morning by a voice claimimng to be uncle joe when she didnt' recognize the voice and brave enough to call 911...she is probably brave enough to escape especially after all these years.
I can't answer everything (or really, anything) but #3 makes no sense. So someone is going to call in a 911 call just to keep some sort of lie going? Riiiiight. That's a pretty complicated lie. The thinking would be "I need to get so and so to call 911 and pretend to be Anthonette to keep the suspicion off me." SOrry, that just dosn't fit that it would be made up. The segment shows others around her, family members. I wouldn't be surprised if this actually happened, with other family members around, and someone could have spoken up.

#4 doesn't surprise me either. Trauma can do massive things to a person's memory, especially to a small child, and people can remember things about an incident years after it happened if it traumatized them enough. Also maybe it was a dream perhaps and she thought she remembered it as a memory. Hard to say, but I wouldn't discount it.

#5 maybe there is no body! She's either still alive or perhaps her remains destroyed.

I'm sorry but none of the above points anything clearly at the mother at all. LIcking lips dosn't necessarily mean lies either, it can also mean nervousness and one's mouth constantly going dry, thereby having to re-moisten them a lot. I've been told I do similar things right before I have to give a presentation in front of others.

Perhaps she did escape, perhaps she didn't. Stockholm Syndrome can come into play here and she could have easily been completely broken down. Brainwashing and manipulation can do lots of things.

No, the mother may not have necessarily heard the knocking. It depends on what the layout is of the house. I can remember being younger and hearing people at our door but my parents didn't. Especially since their bedroom was far from the door and frankly they are deep sleepers.

There was no motive here that we know of. That doesn't mean there isn't one. The segment isn't the be-all end-all of this case and there is a lot we don't know. I will agree that there does seem to be information being left out on the part of the mom....but I believe it's because it's very likely she has a good idea what the kidnapping is connected to and to whom. There was the case in las Vegas several months back where a boy was kidnapped due to his mom's drug connections. I think his last name was Puffinberger, some odd name. I think it's very possible that something like this could have happened.

Also, family members, especially parents are the first to be looked at and scrutinized. Now of course, like I said, maybe the police do actually suspect her, but usually they mention that on the show who they have suspicions on. That wasn't mentioned. LE would be having major egg on their faces if they come on national television and going into the stranger/family member theory if they hadn't checked out the mom first. Sloppy to bad police work does happen, but I truely think LE would have said that mom was on their suspect list if they didn't go for her story.

I can't answer everything (or really, anything) but #3 makes no sense. So someone is going to call in a 911 call just to keep some sort of lie going? Riiiiight. That's a pretty complicated lie. The thinking would be "I need to get so and so to call 911 and pretend to be Anthonette to keep the suspicion off me." SOrry, that just dosn't fit that it would be made up. The segment shows others around her, family members. I wouldn't be surprised if this actually happened, with other family members around, and someone could have spoken up.

#4 doesn't surprise me either. Trauma can do massive things to a person's memory, especially to a small child, and people can remember things about an incident years after it happened if it traumatized them enough. Also maybe it was a dream perhaps and she thought she remembered it as a memory. Hard to say, but I wouldn't discount it.

#5 maybe there is no body! She's either still alive or perhaps her remains destroyed.

I'm sorry but none of the above points anything clearly at the mother at all. LIcking lips dosn't necessarily mean lies either, it can also mean nervousness and one's mouth constantly going dry, thereby having to re-moisten them a lot. I've been told I do similar things right before I have to give a presentation in front of others.

Perhaps she did escape, perhaps she didn't. Stockholm Syndrome can come into play here and she could have easily been completely broken down. Brainwashing and manipulation can do lots of things.

No, the mother may not have necessarily heard the knocking. It depends on what the layout is of the house. I can remember being younger and hearing people at our door but my parents didn't. Especially since their bedroom was far from the door and frankly they are deep sleepers.

There was no motive here that we know of. That doesn't mean there isn't one. The segment isn't the be-all end-all of this case and there is a lot we don't know. I will agree that there does seem to be information being left out on the part of the mom....but I believe it's because it's very likely she has a good idea what the kidnapping is connected to and to whom. There was the case in las Vegas several months back where a boy was kidnapped due to his mom's drug connections. I think his last name was Puffinberger, some odd name. I think it's very possible that something like this could have happened.

Also, family members, especially parents are the first to be looked at and scrutinized. Now of course, like I said, maybe the police do actually suspect her, but usually they mention that on the show who they have suspicions on. That wasn't mentioned. LE would be having major egg on their faces if they come on national television and going into the stranger/family member theory if they hadn't checked out the mom first. Sloppy to bad police work does happen, but I truely think LE would have said that mom was on their suspect list if they didn't go for her story.

point taken. I'll only say two things though. What other possibilities could it be. I mention because we do not have access to all the evidence we can't decided. However, what other scenario could it be? What evidence for any other scenario is there. Like i've said many times, you gotta go for what is most likely. Her staging a phone call is wierd in my opinion too...but how bout the other points i've mentioned. When taken together, you have to consider maybe she does know something.

second point thought is at the charley project website they state that they now suspect foul play.

I believe foul play too, but because it's not likely she is still alive since so much time has gone by and if there are no new sightings or calls, then it's a good suspicion. So just because police believe foul play doesn't mean mom had anything to do with it.

The other points you mentioned, are, IMO, explainable with some of the scenarios that I described. Most cases start with closest family and work outward. What seems possible, (again, only my opinion and my limited knowledge of this case, research, etc) is that Uncle Joe IS involved and there isn't evidence to prosecute him, or that he has knowledge of who did it. I don't know the nature of their relationship with him and how close they were of course, but the way to get someone to open the door is to have it opened to someone you trust.

This then stretches out to A) was it him or B) someone impersonating him? If it's A) why? He could be a sexual predator or there could be drugs involved...whatever. This scenario does seem kind of weak admittedly. So then we go to part B) which is someone impersonating him...which then would go into a Puffinberger scenario...and seems to be IMO the best scenario. If it was related to drugs (I'll even stretch into cartels as a possibility) and getting back at this uncle or even Anthonette's mom, this seems likely.

However, another possibility is that was Anthonette may not even have been the target. Back to scenario B, it's possible that whomever thought Anthonette's mother was going to answer the door, not a child. When she opened the door they decided to grab first ask questions later. I'm not saying mistaken identity of course but it's possible that instead of barging in and going after mom they just decided it would be easier to take the child since she answered the door. Smaller, lighter, easier to deal with then an adult.

Once she's taken, then what? I'm thinking (opinion again obviously) that she was kept for a while for a variety of possible reason...perhaps like Shawn Hornbeck, or perhaps tortured...if it's related to drugs like my strongest possibility is, sadly this could have happened. This would fit into the 911 call which I honestly feel was her....the panicked voice, the someone asking her who let her use the phone, the ending of the call, it just does not seem staged in the least, it does not fit in that it would be staged...it's too elaborate and I really think that this isn't something the mom would do. She dosen't seem like the type of person to have this whole huge elaborate scenario going. I can see lying, covering up stuff, but to go as far as to have a 911 call complete with a 2nd party being on the line too..it's just too much.

Does the sighting fit in? Maybe. It seems odd that someone would drop a note with "Help me, call police" on it. To drop a note that says that and just have it be a joke seems very off, especially with the behavior of the individuals involved. If police had been called in time it would have been an interesting scenario to have them called and it all turn out to be a joke. It's very possible in my mind it could have been her...in those rare cases there have been kidnapped kids kept around for several years. It's possible that she was sold off perhaps. I'm thinking of two cases....unfortunately I can't recall all my details correctly but I think both were in Austria...one girl held captive for a number of years until her late teens...she escaped I believe, also the case of the father who held his daughter captive for a number of years and abused her and had children with her. I'm just trying to show that it's not necessarily far-fetched that something similar could have happened to Anthonette.

IIRC, from the segment there was a psychic who said she was still alive and possibly had child. I don't put credence into all psychics...I do believe some have a gift of sorts but not all. If she was somewhat correct, then it's possible this sighting really was of her and was perhaps in a scenario similar to the first girl in Austria. After some time, the will to fight and to leave could have left her after repeated brainwashing and abuse.

I really think the key here is Uncle Joe...whether he is directly involved or not. If my theory that drugs are involved is even 1/16th correct, then I have a feeling that she has a history with dealing with these people or she was closely associated enough to the uncle to have deep suspicions that he or someone he knows did it, but to admit it would mean, to her, admitting that she has a circle of unsavory people around her and she did, inadvertantly, have had a part in her daughter's disappearance..... or she may feel it would put her life in danger, since they've struck once they could come back and cause more harm.

Now so many years have gone by that it seems like if she felt this way that it would be easier now to come forward but.... I don't know...fear does different things to people. I can't explain that. I know it also seems like a drug-related kidnapping wouldn't have gone on so long...usually the person is found dead or is returned, as in the Puffinberger case. This is why I think it's a big possibility that she could have been traded off, sold off in some form of human trafficking...unfortunately it is not un-common across the border with these circles. In the end I know no more then anyone else here of course, but I just feel that the points I've brought up in these two posts are more closer to what happened vs. mom being directly involved.

I believe foul play too, but because it's not likely she is still alive since so much time has gone by and if there are no new sightings or calls, then it's a good suspicion. So just because police believe foul play doesn't mean mom had anything to do with it.

The other points you mentioned, are, IMO, explainable with some of the scenarios that I described. Most cases start with closest family and work outward. What seems possible, (again, only my opinion and my limited knowledge of this case, research, etc) is that Uncle Joe IS involved and there isn't evidence to prosecute him, or that he has knowledge of who did it. I don't know the nature of their relationship with him and how close they were of course, but the way to get someone to open the door is to have it opened to someone you trust.

This then stretches out to A) was it him or B) someone impersonating him? If it's A) why? He could be a sexual predator or there could be drugs involved...whatever. This scenario does seem kind of weak admittedly. So then we go to part B) which is someone impersonating him...which then would go into a Puffinberger scenario...and seems to be IMO the best scenario. If it was related to drugs (I'll even stretch into cartels as a possibility) and getting back at this uncle or even Anthonette's mom, this seems likely.

However, another possibility is that was Anthonette may not even have been the target. Back to scenario B, it's possible that whomever thought Anthonette's mother was going to answer the door, not a child. When she opened the door they decided to grab first ask questions later. I'm not saying mistaken identity of course but it's possible that instead of barging in and going after mom they just decided it would be easier to take the child since she answered the door. Smaller, lighter, easier to deal with then an adult.

Once she's taken, then what? I'm thinking (opinion again obviously) that she was kept for a while for a variety of possible reason...perhaps like Shawn Hornbeck, or perhaps tortured...if it's related to drugs like my strongest possibility is, sadly this could have happened. This would fit into the 911 call which I honestly feel was her....the panicked voice, the someone asking her who let her use the phone, the ending of the call, it just does not seem staged in the least, it does not fit in that it would be staged...it's too elaborate and I really think that this isn't something the mom would do. She dosen't seem like the type of person to have this whole huge elaborate scenario going. I can see lying, covering up stuff, but to go as far as to have a 911 call complete with a 2nd party being on the line too..it's just too much.

Does the sighting fit in? Maybe. It seems odd that someone would drop a note with "Help me, call police" on it. To drop a note that says that and just have it be a joke seems very off, especially with the behavior of the individuals involved. If police had been called in time it would have been an interesting scenario to have them called and it all turn out to be a joke. It's very possible in my mind it could have been her...in those rare cases there have been kidnapped kids kept around for several years. It's possible that she was sold off perhaps. I'm thinking of two cases....unfortunately I can't recall all my details correctly but I think both were in Austria...one girl held captive for a number of years until her late teens...she escaped I believe, also the case of the father who held his daughter captive for a number of years and abused her and had children with her. I'm just trying to show that it's not necessarily far-fetched that something similar could have happened to Anthonette.

IIRC, from the segment there was a psychic who said she was still alive and possibly had child. I don't put credence into all psychics...I do believe some have a gift of sorts but not all. If she was somewhat correct, then it's possible this sighting really was of her and was perhaps in a scenario similar to the first girl in Austria. After some time, the will to fight and to leave could have left her after repeated brainwashing and abuse.

I really think the key here is Uncle Joe...whether he is directly involved or not. If my theory that drugs are involved is even 1/16th correct, then I have a feeling that she has a history with dealing with these people or she was closely associated enough to the uncle to have deep suspicions that he or someone he knows did it, but to admit it would mean, to her, admitting that she has a circle of unsavory people around her and she did, inadvertantly, have had a part in her daughter's disappearance..... or she may feel it would put her life in danger, since they've struck once they could come back and cause more harm.

Now so many years have gone by that it seems like if she felt this way that it would be easier now to come forward but.... I don't know...fear does different things to people. I can't explain that. I know it also seems like a drug-related kidnapping wouldn't have gone on so long...usually the person is found dead or is returned, as in the Puffinberger case. This is why I think it's a big possibility that she could have been traded off, sold off in some form of human trafficking...unfortunately it is not un-common across the border with these circles. In the end I know no more then anyone else here of course, but I just feel that the points I've brought up in these two posts are more closer to what happened vs. mom being directly involved.

What would be the motive of kidnapping a kid under your drug theory.

Money? there was no ransom note.

Revenge..to make an example? Why her? Why has body been so hard to find imply it was well hidden?

As far as the sighting, that is too far off from what we know to even consider. There's no way you can tell if its anthonette.

As far as the mom, doesn't seem like she can do it doesn't work. You gotta go with much more than that.

human trafficking now? Thats another tangent. Human trafficking for what? Aren't people getting trafficked into the united states not out? what possible reason...sex slave industry? If so why her?

Now I know i've not said too much about gut instinct but I think the mother is lying. The recorded phone call seems phony too.

The recorded phone call seems phony too.

Just curious, but why do you think the call is a hoax?

I feel there is a good chance it was authentic. Whoever made the call, dialed 911. That's a pretty gutsy thing to do since such calls are more easily traced. Also, the call came a year after Anthonette disappeared. If it is a prank, it's a bit esoteric. Finally, two voices are heard, a child and an adult. I know this doesn't tell us much but I think its unlikely that an adult prankster would get their kid involved or vice versa if the call was a kid's idea.

Not sure what to make of the parental involvement theory as a whole but don't think it should be ruled out. One of the articles on the case said that the police now seem to believe that Anthonette was killed and not abducted(?) The article didn't indicate what facts made authorities change their position, although I guess it could be because so much time has passed without contact or sightings.

What would be the motive of kidnapping a kid under your drug theory.

Money? there was no ransom note.

Revenge..to make an example? Why her? Why has body been so hard to find imply it was well hidden?

As far as the sighting, that is too far off from what we know to even consider. There's no way you can tell if its anthonette.

As far as the mom, doesn't seem like she can do it doesn't work. You gotta go with much more than that.

human trafficking now? Thats another tangent. Human trafficking for what? Aren't people getting trafficked into the united states not out? what possible reason...sex slave industry? If so why her?

Now I know i've not said too much about gut instinct but I think the mother is lying. The recorded phone call seems phony too.
For the first part, read up on the Puffinberger case.

No, money dosn't make sense either...no ransom note. They don't strike me as being well-off.

Revenge could work. Perhaps a warning. Money owed, being ratted out, threat of being ratted it, there could be a whole list of things. Drugs and the people who deal with them are not a logical group.

Apparently you don't live near the border I take it. I do and believe me we get bombarded all the time with media about border issues, and trafficking. Cartels are notorious for doing this, and not just trafficking illegals but having prostitution rings on both sides. Girls from other countries are sent in to Mexico, and I wouldn't be surprised if some from here are sent in. Plausible? Perhaps not necessarily but I wouldn't rule it out totally. Why her? There are sickos who like that sort of thing...look at Thailand and Cambodia for instance. And she could have easily been used in the United States without ever leaving.

The sighting is still plausible. There's too much that we don't know where it could go either way. Is it too far off? There is no proof that it isn't, so you can't totally discount it. Discounting something because it seems "too far off" doesn't work.

You're also not mentioning what I personally feel is the strongest likelihood...that Anthonette herself was not the intended target. See above post. Another scenario is that she was held for a while while they figured out what to do, since now they had the wrong person, she had seen them and could give a description. If they were that shoddy, then it's possible a body would have been pretty easy to find. But maybe not..New Mexico is full of rural desert areas. She could be really anywhere, especially if that sighting was really her. Likely though, it seems she's still in NM, either not found or as an UID. Not sure if mom has given up DNA.

And my gut instinct tells me that that phone call is real. I don't have proof, but that's my gut...just too elaborate for someone like the mom to make it up. To drive all the way to Albuquerque and call it in? I suppose she could have had someone that she knows do it...but why? Why something so elaborate when it would be so much easier to deny deny deny then to go to great lengths for a huge cover-up. Simpler is better, and much easier to keep under wraps. Keep it simple and you're less likely to trip up and make a mistake down the road.

When having it played in front of her, LE would have been watching her reaction. I'm sorry, but she does not strike me as that great an actress, especially if you feel she lying by watching her facial gestures---which would mean LE somehow missed that and would mean she's a REALLY bad actress who has somehow pulled the wool over LE's eyes. Again, LE has not named her as a suspect and they apparently believe her. Of course to be fair they have ruled out Uncle Joe as well, from what I've read...so of course my opinion would mean nothing but...my statements above still stand for my opinion. Yes they can be fooled and could have done shoddy work, but apparently they don't feel she had a part in it. It's the one thing I can honestly say I am sure of.

You say that just picturing that she couldn't do it isn't enough, but I say right back that just because she's the mother isn't enough. There just isn't even any circumstancial evidence that she knowingly did something. I maintain that either Uncle Joe is somehow the link in this, directly or indirectly, or maybe it was a dream, and not a memory on the part of the sister. I do think it's entirely possible that mom is withholding information of some kind, but that she's not directly involved. I still maintain drugs could somehow involved and that Anthonette wasn't the target necessarily. It seems likely she was alive for at least a short period of time, at least long enough to make the call, but after that it gets murky. Sex trafficking, yes, likely on the far end of plausible but my points in the above post go to show that lots of things are possible, but not necessarily likely in this case. Having a narrow view and being fixated one thing doesn't get cases solved...and while I've honestly tried to wrap my head around the mom being directly responsible, I just don't see it. I also don't think that the medicine woman's sayings should be discounted, especially since elements seem to corroborate with details of their own investigation...or at least they did at the time. This is what makes me think that perhaps the sighting could be credible...but again, there is just too little either way right now. Nothing new seems to have come out about this case at all.

I know you use cole puffinberger as an example. I like to use the larry gibson example for my opinions.

My problem with revenge is this. Why not leave a body to send a message. WHy target her? Lets say they didn't kill her...why keep her? Thye let cole puffinberger back.

Also, there was no mention of drugs in the UM broadcast. Although I am pretty sure the police know whats up.

If it was random selection for sex slave...like you said still very very far off.

Sighting should not be disregarded at all. But from what we've heard there's nothing very concrete about it or even could even indicate it was even her in trouble. We're not discounting it. Just because one is narrowing in on a likely scenario you have to look at concrete and more plausible things.

As far as the phone call goes, the call was not traced because of lack of time as mentioned in UM clip. So it wasn't from albequeque or at least confirmed to be. That I know for sure.

I think mistaken abduction is plausible. Uncle joe is supposedly a common name. This is something I totally wouldn't dismiss and could be a possibility.

THe thing that gets me is why a child would not come out with a story until 5 years later. That is the confusing part. I work with children. This behavior is odd considering its a her sister. Kids are not stupid. If a sibling is taken in the middle of the night you would think the mother would be told. Nothing about that story holds up at all. That is what got me suspecting the mother. The story does not hold up.

I know you use cole puffinberger as an example. I like to use the larry gibson example for my opinions.

THe thing that gets me is why a child would not come out with a story until 5 years later. That is the confusing part. I work with children. This behavior is odd considering its a her sister. Kids are not stupid. If a sibling is taken in the middle of the night you would think the mother would be told. Nothing about that story holds up at all. That is what got me suspecting the mother. The story does not hold up.
I don't think Larry Gibson's case comes close to this but we can agree to disagree on that. I'm on the fence on that one...I truly can't make an opinion either way. I can't say the Puffinberger case resembles this either, but my point in using it was to show that it can be possibly something similar. I've also already addressed why she wasn't possibly given back in earlier posts.

You are correct that the call was never confirmed from Albuquerque. My previous points about it still stand.

In the Elizabeth Smart case, it took a while for her sister to come forward. Granted not 5 years and not upon questioning by law enforcement, IIRC she told her parents first. In this case, the answer to your question is answered in the segment. LE apparently feels this is credible. As I've previously stated, fear can do a lot of things to a small child. Intimidation?

She willingly appeared to give the information and if her mom was directly involved, I find it more likely that she would have volunteered the info then, without any family present, instead of making up a story to cover for mom 5 years later. If she had given the story earlier...then the argument could be made that perhaps she was coached to say this by mom, since a younger child is easier to coach. But 5 years later, when she was 10? Doesn't quite make sense. In the Gibson case the daughter herself stated she saw the dad kill Thomas..though I've wondered if it was from coaching from the mom or if she actually saw it. Regardless, she in a sense ratted him out. Wendy did not do this with her mom.

In a lot of the inner cities and poor towns, there is the "don't snitch" "rule" of sorts. Many cases could be solved if someone would just talk...but they are in fear of their lives so they don't talk, no matter how much I may not agree with that. My friend's husband is one of these. At a young age...not very young but not very old either (I don't remember the exact age anymore), he witnessed his friend die in a shooting. He saw who did it, but never told.....so sadly his friend's murder has not been solved. Today at the age of 30 he STILL refuses to name names, citing that he's too afraid. This drives me nuts! His thinking is weird though...I can't claim to understand it. So this is why I don't think it's strange that 5 years later she willingly comes out with this confession.

Trauma hits different children different ways, and upbringing and physical and emotional makeup can make a difference. Victims of sexual abuse or a rape can wait many many years before telling someone about what they've experienced, and while witnessing a kidnapping and being a victim of SA are two very different things of course, my point is it shouldn't be considered so strange that a long period of time passes before a confession of sorts is made after someone experiences a trauma, especially at a young age.. Not having been in this situation myself I cannot think of exactly how I would act in that situation that she was in at her age...I don't think anyone really can unless they've been through it and can understand the thinking. I don't know. I still can't believe so much time has gone by and it's essentially a cold cold case.

My problem with revenge is this. Why not leave a body to send a message. WHy target her? Lets say they didn't kill her...why keep her? Thye let cole puffinberger back.

The problem with simply beating up someone to get paid on a debt is that ultimatly the victim will get used to the beatings and see that as an acceptable (if painful) alternative to having to give up the money. If you kill the victim than there is no way for you to get your money back. So what a lot of criminals do is that they threaten family members, take property or kidnap family members as a means of coercing payment.

As to why no body, If the Cayedito's did not pay them?

A young girl like Antoinette may have a lot of value as a prostitute or sexual slave. They may have decided to get their money back that way.

People are making an issue of the mother's body language saying she is withholding information. She may have been ordered by police to not say certain things for fear of jeopardizing the investigation. It is not uncommon for police to keep certain tidbits of info from the general public for fear that it will compromise their investigative efforts.

Interesting discussion here, I never thought of the mom being involved (personally I don't think she had anything directly to do with it), but you're right that some parts of the story seem far fetched - although not impossible.

Does anyone think the sighting 5 years later (when she would be 14) at the restaurant was her? That would be quite a long time to have kept her alive, and surely if she made the 911 call four years earlier, she probably would've made escape attempts inbetween that time too. Beings that it was in public, couldn't she have said she had to go to the bathroom for instance, and gotten help from someone who worked there (like Theresa Stamper getting away from Paul)? Even making a scene right there, more than likely the kidnappers wouldn't do anything right then, and she would've been much safer.

People can change alot, especially going from childhood to early teens, so even if the 14 year old kinda looked like her, it may or may not have been (or it could've been another girl in a desperate situation, but just not Antonette).

I do think the 911 call really was her (unfortunately they couldn't trace calls as easily back then :( ), but I wonder if she was somehow "punished" for trying to escape. I kinda doubt they would've kept her 4 more years (and possibly later), but then again with brainwashing and anything else they could've done, anything is possible - like with the Baskins.

i really dont want to think her family is hiding something, but there are too many things that don't match:

1. The kidnapper did'nt know who was going to open the door, what if it were the mother? what if it was an adult male?. Pretty risky for a criminal to do such a thing.

2. Her sister telling a detailed version of the kidnapping 5 years after. Why a child kept that to herself all that time? maybe all the episode was a induced memory? Making a child remenber something that never happened is easier than it seems...we have see it in other UM cases

3. Sadly, sightings are often just a product of the witness' mind, just like it happened in other cases featured in UM

4. After a year some doubts could have arise... maybe the call was made to give the kidnapping theory more strength?

Like i said i don't want to think her family is involved, but with the limited facts i know from a TV show...that's the theory that make more sense to me.

i really dont want to think her family is hiding something, but there are too many things that don't match:

1. The kidnapper did'nt know who was going to open the door, what if it were the mother? what if it was an adult male?. Pretty risky for a criminal to do such a thing.

2. Her sister telling a detailed version of the kidnapping 5 years after. Why a child kept that to herself all that time? maybe all the episode was a induced memory? Making a child remenber something that never happened is easier than it seems...we have see it in other UM cases

3. Sadly, sightings are often just a product of the witness' mind, just like it happened in other cases featured in UM

4. After a year some doubts could have arise... maybe the call was made to give the kidnapping theory more strength?

Like i said i don't want to think her family is involved, but with the limited facts i know from a TV show...that's the theory that make more sense to me.

There's at least one lie somewhere in this case. The trick is to find out where it is and for what purpose.

I honestly thought the mother was sincere, but of course it's only speculation. I thought the call seemed pretty real, but the sighting at the restaurant not so much- it could have been but chances are probably not.
And I hate to suggest it, but does anyone else think that perhaps the younger sister made up the story about Uncle Joe knocking? I highly doubt she would have just gone back to bed after that happened. And of course, it would be very difficult for her to want to recant after telling the police and everything.

Well basically I just re-watched it and the mother came off as very sincere to me too so I don't know. But something just doesn't add up.

Maybe it's a long shot but couldn't there have been an accident from when the sisters were playing or possibly arguing or whatever which caused Anthonette's death and the mother was just covering for the sister out of fear of what might happen to her? That would explain why the sister didn't talk before.

I just watched this segment as well:

I agree with most of you: I think that Anthonette was kidnapped for sex trafficking or prostitution purposes (perhaps even pornography), and after her "lucrative" age had expired, she was killed. I hate to say it, but it just doesn't seem realistic to think she's still alive.

I mean, I guess if she was brainwashed, she could be living somewhere in an abusive relationship, or with someone and have little recollection of her former life, but who knows.

One question.... what always struck me was... the 911 call, it was from Albecerque, so she couldn't have dialed 911, she would have needed the local emergency number for her specific village's emergency center, right? I don't even know my own local emergency number, let alone a young little girl. Know what I mean? How did she know where to call, the number, and the 911 call seemed so staged, like, she called, and immediately a man said "who told you you could use the phone." I'm not saying it was a hoax, but Im not positive about it. Obviously, a mom will want it to be their daughter to keep the hope alive.

As we all know, there have been so many UM segments where "legitimate leads" have proved to be false, and I wonder if we might someday learn that she was killed hours after the kidnapping, etc.

Anybody care to comment... particularly on the 911 call. Regardless, this is a VERY sad case, and very frustrating... The mom must be a very strong woman.

Oh, and one more thing... it says in the beginning that the mother and her two sisters were "surprised to discover that she was not in the house." If the sister had seen what had happened, then why would she have been surprised. I don't know.... The thing about UM is that there's always more to it than we know.

Oh, and one more thing... it says in the beginning that the mother and her two sisters were "surprised to discover that she was not in the house." If the sister had seen what had happened, then why would she have been surprised. I don't know.... The thing about UM is that there's always more to it than we know.


mattc you seem to contradict yourself. however, you made a good point about the 911 call. again, this is the stuff i have been mentioning, in that i suspect the mom. you can read my earlier posts.

One question.... what always struck me was... the 911 call, it was from Albecerque, so she couldn't have dialed 911, she would have needed the local emergency number for her specific village's emergency center, right? I don't even know my own local emergency number, let alone a young little girl. Know what I mean? How did she know where to call, the number, and the 911 call seemed so staged, like, she called, and immediately a man said "who told you you could use the phone." I'm not saying it was a hoax, but Im not positive about it. Obviously, a mom will want it to be their daughter to keep the hope alive.



I was initially confused at what you were getting at here, but now I follow. That is actually a really good point, and something I didn't even catch when I watched the segment recently.

That tape is so haunting, if it was a hoax it was very well done. It sounds so chillingly real.

Hey, thanks for the responses guys..... I don't know what you mean about me contradicting myself.. I did write that post late, and it wasn't worded very well. My point is, after watching the segment, I just wonder how the little girl was able to call her local town's emergency number from another part of the state. That's all.

So many questions, really.

it wasn't meant as a slight. it was just confusion because you advocated the abduction theory yet you question the validity of the call which suggests she was kidnapped.

to me, if i were an investigator the finger points at the mom.

Hey, thanks for the responses guys..... I don't know what you mean about me contradicting myself.. I did write that post late, and it wasn't worded very well. My point is, after watching the segment, I just wonder how the little girl was able to call her local town's emergency number from another part of the state. That's all.

So many questions, really.

I suppose she could have called 411 (directory assistance) and asked for that police department, but that doesn't seem likely, does it? If I were a kidnapped ten year old, I'd just grab the phone and call 911.

One thing that makes me think the 911 call may have been a hoax is that it was very risky for the supposed abductor to speak into the phone. There have been numerous cases of victims calling 911 for help, but in the cases where the perp finds out, the perp always just hangs up the phone, not speak into it.

It's also intersting to note that the mother is 100% confident that the voice on the 911 call is Antoinette, but she doesn't say anything about the man. This would lead me to believe that if it's Antoinette, then she doesn't know who kidnapped her, and that may make Uncle Joe seem less likely of a suspect.

But then again, somebody made a good point earlier about Antoinette should be able to recognize Uncle Joe's voice at the front door. Of cousre, anyone could claim to be Uncle Joe, but Antoinette is probably going to know what his voice sounds like. So not only does this guy know Uncle Joe, but must be him or at least sound like him.

not sure what I think about this case now.

nice to hear that my comments have sparked some thought. as much as people argue the sex slave angle. I just don't buy it. I prefer to think in terms of what is most likely and investigate that first.

I think the police department fudged this investigation. out of sympathies to the indian community...it seems theya re a small town that knows everybody...i think they failed to suspect the mom. by the time the fbi came in...that other guy on the UM segment, the evidence that might ahve been from mother's house is gone.

i also think that why athonette's mom is going through such great lengths to prove that her daughter is being abducted...even going to a navajo medicine healer thing. i suspect what UM didn't show is that the police now suspect her and she has been trying to prove otherwise. either way the case has gotten very old and without a body or a confession somewhere its impossible to really have this case solved.

I think the police department fudged this investigation. out of sympathies to the indian community...it seems theya re a small town that knows everybody...i think they failed to suspect the mom. by the time the fbi came in...that other guy on the UM segment, the evidence that might ahve been from mother's house is gone.

I believe the tribal police were involved as well as the FBI agents who deal with investigatios on that reservation.

I don;t think the police fudged the investigation. Missing persons cases are the most difficult investigations to close. It's not surprising no answer has been found yet.

I believe the tribal police were involved as well as the FBI agents who deal with investigatios on that reservation.

I don;t think the police fudged the investigation. Missing persons cases are the most difficult investigations to close. It's not surprising no answer has been found yet.

if i am correct, the tribal police would be first on scene with the fbi coming in later. the tribal police could feasibly be pursuing the missing persons angle instead of some sort of accidental death. the mother could very well be popular within the community and probably knew the police officers perseonally. to me, this could have hindered the critical early parts of the investigation.

if i am correct, the tribal police would be first on scene with the fbi coming in later. t

Not necessarily. If the call was for a missing child, the FBI in any city would be called in to assist as soon as possible. In such a case the tribal police would defer to the experince of the FBI.

In some reservations the local FBI agent(s) is pretty much the de facto investigative unit of the place. They get called for any type of major investigation like murder or abduction.


the tribal police could feasibly be pursuing the missing persons angle instead of some sort of accidental death. the mother could very well be popular within the community and probably knew the police officers perseonally. to me, this could have hindered the critical early parts of the investigation.

I could be wrong on this, but I do think the FBI has jurisdiction to directly investigate civilian homicide on a Native American Reservation. I think the agent could investigate that angle if necessary.

in that case i wonder how soon the fbi was called in. from my understanding, local authorities have always had problems with feds and vice versa regarding this. in the critical early stges that might have been key. i know from the um segment there was a local enforcement detective interviewed.

also, fbi wouldn't directly investigate because this is not a homicide...didn't it start out as a missing person. the murder/abduction theories only happened way later.

I think the police department fudged this investigation. out of sympathies to the indian community...it seems theya re a small town that knows everybody...i think they failed to suspect the mom. by the time the fbi came in...that other guy on the UM segment, the evidence that might ahve been from mother's house is gone.

i also think that why athonette's mom is going through such great lengths to prove that her daughter is being abducted...even going to a navajo medicine healer thing. i suspect what UM didn't show is that the police now suspect her and she has been trying to prove otherwise. either way the case has gotten very old and without a body or a confession somewhere its impossible to really have this case solved.
Or they investigated and already ruled out the mom, which would seem to be the most likely, since the UM segement was filmed years after the abduction happened. And on other UM segments they have mentioned where other persons are suspected, but they had no proof. This was not so in the UM segment.

There's no concrete proof, they dont' even have what they had before the bodies showed up in the Scott Peterson case. Mom going through such great lengths to prove herself innocent sounds like, wow--an innocent person! Good grief I'd go through whatever I had to just to prove myself innocent. Cooperating with police, telling what she knows (mostly, she could be holding something back on a suspect). Consulting an Indian medicine woman wouldn't be unusual for someone like her. I look at her, and hear her story, and I fully believe her for the most part. But I think that's because I'm a woman and a mother, and I understand thinking from both ends. I don't see a killer looking at her, I see a genuinely distraught woman in pain. I've been around and around wtih this, thrown out ideas, pointed out things, and in the end, if someone is determined that someone must be guilty, then hey, nothing anyone says will change their minds. Of course that's also why some cases are shot---police focusing on only one possible person, and how innocent people can end up in jail. I've looked at the mom over and over and I can't find anything much out of the ordinary with her, so it's not a line of reasoning I will be continuing with.

One thing that makes me think the 911 call may have been a hoax is that it was very risky for the supposed abductor to speak into the phone. There have been numerous cases of victims calling 911 for help, but in the cases where the perp finds out, the perp always just hangs up the phone, not speak into it.

It's also intersting to note that the mother is 100% confident that the voice on the 911 call is Antoinette, but she doesn't say anything about the man. This would lead me to believe that if it's Antoinette, then she doesn't know who kidnapped her, and that may make Uncle Joe seem less likely of a suspect.

The abductor didn't speak into the phone, he was heard in the back ground. Likely hard to tell a voice. It could have been an associate or a friend of Uncle Joe's as well...someone who somewhat knew the family.

There's no concrete proof, they dont' even have what they had before the bodies showed up in the Scott Peterson case. Mom going through such great lengths to prove herself innocent sounds like, wow--an innocent person! Good grief I'd go through whatever I had to just to prove myself innocent. Cooperating with police, telling what she knows (mostly, she could be holding something back on a suspect). Consulting an Indian medicine woman wouldn't be unusual for someone like her. I look at her, and hear her story, and I fully believe her for the most part. But I think that's because I'm a woman and a mother, and I understand thinking from both ends. I don't see a killer looking at her, I see a genuinely distraught woman in pain. I've been around and around wtih this, thrown out ideas, pointed out things, and in the end, if someone is determined that someone must be guilty, then hey, nothing anyone says will change their minds. Of course that's also why some cases are shot---police focusing on only one possible person, and how innocent people can end up in jail. I've looked at the mom over and over and I can't find anything much out of the ordinary with her, so it's not a line of reasoning I will be continuing with.

Believe me. I do not like the thought of the mother at some sort of fault here. But you have to look at it objectively. Me and many others on this forum have posted several interesting things out that lead back to the mother. Also, I understand you are a mother. But it could have been very well an accidental death. But going on purely on your gut instinct isn't very good investigating. I mean how do you account for her sister's testimony. If this was a planned sex slave kidnapping why would they be so brazen to knock on front door knowing full well she would open it instead of the head of the household, the mother. if you were going to kidnap someone for those purposes wouldn't you just go into her room and kidnap her? This and other things we've all pointed out all lead back to the mother and the people in the house at the time.

one thing that would be helpful to know is if it wasn't uncommon for Uncle Joe to pay a visit to the house in the middle of the night. If he had a tendency to do that, I would be more apt to believe Uncle Joe might have been responsible, but if he had never done that before, I would imagine it was someone not related to the family.

one thing that would be helpful to know is if it wasn't uncommon for Uncle Joe to pay a visit to the house in the middle of the night. If he had a tendency to do that, I would be more apt to believe Uncle Joe might have been responsible, but if he had never done that before, I would imagine it was someone not related to the family.

another good point.

In the segment, one of the detectives explains that in 1986, "Uncle Joe" was married to Penny's sister. Since he said "was" I'm inclined to believe that they had since divorced/split up. I'd be curious to know what happened there, and how Uncle Joe was thought of by family members after that. Perhaps I am really reaching with this one, but I think it is possible that someone in the family had a grudge against Uncle Joe and decided to coach the younger sister in telling this story. It could fit with why she suddenly came forward with this detailed story five years after Anthonette vanished.

another thing that bugs me about that 911 call is that she just keeps saying her name over and over, and that she's in Albuquerque. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to fault Antoinette or whoever the girl may be, but it would seem like she would be rattling off as many details as possible. She may not know exactly where she is, as in street name, address, things like that, but she could describe her abductors, where she's being kept (is it a house, apartment or whatever), but she just keeps saying her name over and over. perhaps the call was a hoax.

another thing that bugs me about that 911 call is that she just keeps saying her name over and over, and that she's in Albuquerque. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to fault Antoinette or whoever the girl may be, but it would seem like she would be rattling off as many details as possible. She may not know exactly where she is, as in street name, address, things like that, but she could describe her abductors, where she's being kept (is it a house, apartment or whatever), but she just keeps saying her name over and over. perhaps the call was a hoax.

I didn't view the phone call that way. She says her name, then when the operator said, "What?" she said her name again and where she was as though perhaps the operator (and police who would later investigate the call) would recognize the name (which of course they did). THEN before she could say anything else the man in the background came on. She only said her name twice, I believe, and had no chance to say anything else. I know we have to look at the evidence carefully, but that phone call just seems so genuine. The sound of fear and pain... it could have been acted out, but I feel it was not a hoax.

I didn't view the phone call that way. She says her name, then when the operator said, "What?" she said her name again and where she was as though perhaps the operator (and police who would later investigate the call) would recognize the name (which of course they did). THEN before she could say anything else the man in the background came on. She only said her name twice, I believe, and had no chance to say anything else. I know we have to look at the evidence carefully, but that phone call just seems so genuine. The sound of fear and pain... it could have been acted out, but I feel it was not a hoax.

that's just it, though. The girl never states that she's in trouble, in addition to not mentioning any details about where she's at/the abductors. the only thing she states is her name in location. If i called 911 right now and just gave my name and location, they would be like "so what's the problem?" Again, I'm not faulting Antoinette or whoever it was, but the call just seems odd to me.

Regarding the male voice heard in the background of the "Anthonette Emergency Call"....

I watched this one today. I could not even tell that the voice was a man. It actually sounded like a woman to me.

However, that could be because of the poor quality of the DVD I have... it's old fer sure.

that's just it, though. The girl never states that she's in trouble, in addition to not mentioning any details about where she's at/the abductors. the only thing she states is her name in location. If i called 911 right now and just gave my name and location, they would be like "so what's the problem?" Again, I'm not faulting Antoinette or whoever it was, but the call just seems odd to me.

I agree. Although Anthonette may have been fully aware that saying her full name would be effective (she had been missing for some time at that point, and very well may have noticed the public had been alerted of her disappearance), it's a little hard for me to imagine a little girl doing this in lieu of immediately explaining what the problem was, i.e., "Help me; I've been kidnapped", etc. I can't even really imagine many adults doing that, but that's nothing more than personal impression.

There is another theory local authorities thought of but could not quite prove as the stories gathered centered around the immediate family. This thread is quite interesting and it has some good points.

I'm not too sure how to say the whole thing but it mainly focuses on the mother as being the one directly involved. The neighborhood in which this family resided is considered very low income, within city limits, and on one of the main roads in the city. Approximately a week after this abduction occured, the mother acquired a brand new vehicle that was well beyond her income capabilities. If my child was abducted, having a new ride would be the last thing on my mind.

Also, the mother's behavior after this abduction wasn't 'normal' for someone who was grieving. I don't remember details but it was along the lines that she had a carefree attitude as if she knew her daughter was ok. A theory that wasn't really emphasized due to the limited resources of people to interview, was that the mother arranged for her daughter to be 'married' off (illegally of course) in exchange for money (and how she got her vehicle).

Taking that into mind, the mother and the other party conspired the kidnapping to make her disappearance more legit. Its a huge possibilty she made sure her daughter was awake enough to hear the knock on the door and knowing she would answer it had she believed it was her uncle. And while this event happened, the mother kept quiet in the room but didnt anticipate that Wendy (the sister) witnessed this situation (if she even did to begin with). I say this only because I knew Wendy as a child and she was no angel, not even close. She was in constant trouble, a well known liar, and a bully. There's a possibility that her behavior was the result of years of instilled fear from her mother in regards to 'witnessing' this kidnapping.

If the mother is involved, that would explain the daughter's reluctance to runaway and seek help, knowing that her mother is the one involved with her departure. The phone call a year later could also be a ploy to keep up with the story of kidnapping and keep the mother clear. If you take Lori Hacking's husband as an example, he was involved with the search for his own wife and in the end, he was the one who killed her. He even went on national television pleading for her return. If this happened recently, what makes you think it didn't go on back then when she was kidnapped?

Approximately a week after this abduction occured, the mother acquired a brand new vehicle that was well beyond her income capabilities. If my child was abducted, having a new ride would be the last thing on my mind..

She could have planned to buy the car long before the abduction. You also are forgetting that she has another child that she may need to carry along.
Even though her child is abducted she still has to go through everyday activities. There plenty of ways to purchase vehicles under a low income.


Taking that into mind, the mother and the other party conspired the kidnapping to make her disappearance more legit. Its a huge possibilty she made sure her daughter was awake enough to hear the knock on the door and knowing she would answer it had she believed it was her uncle. And while this event happened, the mother kept quiet in the room but didnt anticipate that Wendy (the sister) witnessed this situation (if she even did to begin with). I say this only because I knew Wendy as a child and she was no angel, not even close. She was in constant trouble, a well known liar, and a bully. There's a possibility that her behavior was the result of years of instilled fear from her mother in regards to 'witnessing' this kidnapping.

That's waaaay too complex a plan. There is also no way to verify your claims about Wendy.


If the mother is involved, that would explain the daughter's reluctance to runaway and seek help, knowing that her mother is the one involved with her departure. The phone call a year later could also be a ploy to keep up with the story of kidnapping and keep the mother clear. If you take Lori Hacking's husband as an example, he was involved with the search for his own wife and in the end, he was the one who killed her. He even went on national television pleading for her return. If this happened recently, what makes you think it didn't go on back then when she was kidnapped?

Huh? why would she call the police that she was abducted in the first place?

There are so much easier ways to make money, than this bizarre plot you mentioned.

Also, the mother's behavior after this abduction wasn't 'normal' for someone who was grieving. I don't remember details but it was along the lines that she had a carefree attitude as if she knew her daughter was ok. A theory that wasn't really emphasized due to the limited resources of people to interview, was that the mother arranged for her daughter to be 'married' off (illegally of course) in exchange for money (and how she got her vehicle).

I don't know if there is a "normal" response for child abductions.

Limitationed Resources? The FBI was involved. It was a childhood abduction. On an Indian reservation. The FBI agent could get a full squad on the case if he wanted too.

In childhood abductions, the parents are always a prime suspect. I'm pretty sure she was looked at thoroughly.


mother arranged for her daughter to be 'married' off (illegally of course) in exchange for money (and how she got her vehicle).

Considering this would have happened on an Indian Reservation or even in Mexico, legality could be a grey area. Does age of consent laws go for Reservations?

There is another theory local authorities thought of but could not quite prove as the stories gathered centered around the immediate family. This thread is quite interesting and it has some good points.

I'm not too sure how to say the whole thing but it mainly focuses on the mother as being the one directly involved. The neighborhood in which this family resided is considered very low income, within city limits, and on one of the main roads in the city. Approximately a week after this abduction occured, the mother acquired a brand new vehicle that was well beyond her income capabilities. If my child was abducted, having a new ride would be the last thing on my mind.

Also, the mother's behavior after this abduction wasn't 'normal' for someone who was grieving. I don't remember details but it was along the lines that she had a carefree attitude as if she knew her daughter was ok. A theory that wasn't really emphasized due to the limited resources of people to interview, was that the mother arranged for her daughter to be 'married' off (illegally of course) in exchange for money (and how she got her vehicle).

Taking that into mind, the mother and the other party conspired the kidnapping to make her disappearance more legit. Its a huge possibilty she made sure her daughter was awake enough to hear the knock on the door and knowing she would answer it had she believed it was her uncle. And while this event happened, the mother kept quiet in the room but didnt anticipate that Wendy (the sister) witnessed this situation (if she even did to begin with). I say this only because I knew Wendy as a child and she was no angel, not even close. She was in constant trouble, a well known liar, and a bully. There's a possibility that her behavior was the result of years of instilled fear from her mother in regards to 'witnessing' this kidnapping.

If the mother is involved, that would explain the daughter's reluctance to runaway and seek help, knowing that her mother is the one involved with her departure. The phone call a year later could also be a ploy to keep up with the story of kidnapping and keep the mother clear. If you take Lori Hacking's husband as an example, he was involved with the search for his own wife and in the end, he was the one who killed her. He even went on national television pleading for her return. If this happened recently, what makes you think it didn't go on back then when she was kidnapped?

Very interesting post :eek: I do think it is odd that the mother "bought" a new, expensive car a week after her daughter was abducted, although, as "mastermind" mentioned, that doesn't really say much, and we don't know the circumstances behind it (perhaps this was given to her as a gift by a sympathetic friend/family member, or even community member). Maybe her other car (if she even had a car) wasn't working and this was a gift. Regardless, it does not make me suspicious.

Wendy being a bully doesn't mean she's hiding something; she could just be a bully, or she could be kind of screwed up given the fact that she witnessed a kidnapping and her sister was abducted... You appear to be making conclusions that aren't supported necessarily.

I know you did say it was a theory, and it is interesting to hear about other info of victim's families that were not available to the public (especially from a local resident such as yourself).

Can you give us any more information on the kidnapping? Was the mother questioned extensively?

The one thing I noticed is that on several missing person sites that profile Anthonette, they say that "the police initially thought she was abducted but now believe she is dead." Do you know why they decided that?

It does make me wonder if they now believe she was killed in the home, or somewhere else, and was never abducted at all????

Please give us some more details if you know anything. Thanks.:)

There is another theory local authorities thought of but could not quite prove as the stories gathered centered around the immediate family. This thread is quite interesting and it has some good points.

I'm not too sure how to say the whole thing but it mainly focuses on the mother as being the one directly involved. The neighborhood in which this family resided is considered very low income, within city limits, and on one of the main roads in the city. Approximately a week after this abduction occured, the mother acquired a brand new vehicle that was well beyond her income capabilities. If my child was abducted, having a new ride would be the last thing on my mind.

Also, the mother's behavior after this abduction wasn't 'normal' for someone who was grieving. I don't remember details but it was along the lines that she had a carefree attitude as if she knew her daughter was ok. A theory that wasn't really emphasized due to the limited resources of people to interview, was that the mother arranged for her daughter to be 'married' off (illegally of course) in exchange for money (and how she got her vehicle).

Taking that into mind, the mother and the other party conspired the kidnapping to make her disappearance more legit. Its a huge possibilty she made sure her daughter was awake enough to hear the knock on the door and knowing she would answer it had she believed it was her uncle. And while this event happened, the mother kept quiet in the room but didnt anticipate that Wendy (the sister) witnessed this situation (if she even did to begin with). I say this only because I knew Wendy as a child and she was no angel, not even close. She was in constant trouble, a well known liar, and a bully. There's a possibility that her behavior was the result of years of instilled fear from her mother in regards to 'witnessing' this kidnapping.

If the mother is involved, that would explain the daughter's reluctance to runaway and seek help, knowing that her mother is the one involved with her departure. The phone call a year later could also be a ploy to keep up with the story of kidnapping and keep the mother clear. If you take Lori Hacking's husband as an example, he was involved with the search for his own wife and in the end, he was the one who killed her. He even went on national television pleading for her return. If this happened recently, what makes you think it didn't go on back then when she was kidnapped?

very interesting post. you seem to have more inside information. I think i was the original poster who posted my suspicions on the mother. I think many posters here would like to hear more on this case.

Some interesting takes. A common theme amongst many cases profiled on UM was the failure of LE - indeed, I think many rural LE agencies lack the ability to properly investigate and handle crimes such as murder and abduction, leading to many solvable mysteries being UM...

Anyway, you'd think LE would have investigated the mother comprehensively, being that you'd always start with the people in the house. Nothing in the segment suggests she's suspected in any way, shape, or form, so I'd be hesitant to suggest she was involved without a showing that LE hasn't done their job and some evidence of motive, etc.

My prior comment on the "uncle joe" story stands. I just don't find wendy's story credible, so in my mind the entire mechanics of the abduction are unknown.

Some interesting takes. A common theme amongst many cases profiled on UM was the failure of LE - indeed, I think many rural LE agencies lack the ability to properly investigate and handle crimes such as murder and abduction, leading to many solvable mysteries being UM...

This case was investigated by the local FBI since it was an abduction. Reservations have a local FBI agent available that investigates any criminal cases. The reservation police had a resouce that very few small towns had, they're own FBI office!!

Again, this is an abduction, not a murder case. These cases should get as much attention as an abduction in a large city.

Keep in mind that many states have a state burea of investigations that assists small rural communities. These investigators usually competent since a lot of them used to work for large city police departments.

To be honest, there's really no basic rule when it comes to investigations in large or small cities Sometimes, small rural investigators are better since they only have one or two cases and can focus on cases more. A large city homicide unit, has to clear cases in 48 hrs and move on to the next investigation.

Just getting a quick glance at this thread, sorry I can't really elaborate on details all to much at the moment...heading out the door.

The house she was abducted on was not on reservation land whatsoever. It is well within the City of Gallup limits and idk why the FBI was involved. The reservation is located south of the city.

The neighborhood she lived in was one of the most poverty stricken neighborhoods in the city. The vehicle was paid in full and was not a gift or charity thing. When questioned, conflicting stories arose

These are all very interesting posts and theories. I haven't read through all the pages yet, but I want to go back and read what others have said. The Anthonette Cayedito case was one of my favorite Unsolved Mysteries cases. These are some thoughts I had:
Why would the girls be up so late the night she was kidnapped? Where was the mother at 3 AM when the kidnapper knocked on the door? THat never made sense to me. IN fact, I remember when I first saw the case on TV, I was in elementary school and my mother used it as a lesson to scare me. ("YOu SEE? THat's why you NEVER open the door to anyone!")
ALso, what happened to Anthonette's mom and sisters? I think her sisters would be in their late 20's/early 30's today? Then again, I have not read the other pages in this thread, soI am not sure if other updates were posted.

The neighborhood she lived in was one of the most poverty stricken neighborhoods in the city. The vehicle was paid in full and was not a gift or charity thing. When questioned, conflicting stories arose

I wonder if antoinette was held as a "marker".

mastermind, I don't understand what you mean by a "marker"

mastermind, I don't understand what you mean by a "marker"

It's criminal slang for someone or something taken as collateral for payment on a debt. (though I could be wrong...)and using the wrong word)

Hmmm... mastermind, now I wonder how you know those terms... Hmmm......:shocked

Just getting a quick glance at this thread, sorry I can't really elaborate on details all to much at the moment...heading out the door.

The house she was abducted on was not on reservation land whatsoever. It is well within the City of Gallup limits and idk why the FBI was involved. The reservation is located south of the city.

The neighborhood she lived in was one of the most poverty stricken neighborhoods in the city. The vehicle was paid in full and was not a gift or charity thing. When questioned, conflicting stories arose

conflicting stories?

The house she was abducted on was not on reservation land whatsoever. It is well within the City of Gallup limits and idk why the FBI was involved. The reservation is located south of the city.

Gallup, NM is right in the heart of several reservations. The situation between the reservation police and Gallup Police Department is much like the Los Angeles County Sherriff and LAPD in Compton, CA. The Gallup PD is constantly in contact with reservation police giving their extremely large Native American population. In fact, Gallup has a specialized task force with the reservation police that deals with drug enforcement in Native Lands. In a missing or abduction case, practically all the local reservation police departments would be called in. And almost certainly the local FBI on those reservations would be begged to participate.

It was an abduction, the FBI is almost always called in by local police. Most likely the reservation FBI would have first been contacted since they were the closest. Then the local FBI would get assistance from agents from the closest Resident Agency.

The house she was abducted on was not on reservation land whatsoever. It is well within the City of Gallup limits and idk why the FBI was involved. The reservation is located south of the city.


The FBI has jurisdiction over all abduction cases per federal law.

My point above was that I would not suspect the mother (on the reasonable assumption that she would have already been investigated and cleared by LE), so if we presume the FBI are competent investigators (a reasonable presumption, methinks), then it's hard to believe they wouldn't have pointed the finger at mom if something was truly amiss.

My point above was that I would not suspect the mother (on the reasonable assumption that she would have already been investigated and cleared by LE), so if we presume the FBI are competent investigators (a reasonable presumption, methinks), then it's hard to believe they wouldn't have pointed the finger at mom if something was truly amiss.

In child abduction/murder the parents are ALWAYS the first suspects as well as the first witnesses. They will be grilled intensively to not only get valuable info, but to determine if they killed their own child. Even if not suspected initually, once the search or wiretaps turn up nothing, the investigators will always come back to see if they are cleared of any wrongdoing.

The FBI in particular is anxious to prove that this is a murder by the parents as it saves them from having to do vast searches and expensive wiretaps.

The FBI has jurisdiction over all abduction cases per federal law

Technically yes, but as amazing as it sound there are several situations were they would not investigate:

1. If the local police tells the FBI that they don't need assistance and the SAC of the FBI resident agency agrees. (this happens a lot more than people think.:()
2. The supervisory agent comes up with a elaborate reason that the case is not a federal jursidiction. (such as there is evidence that the child is actually murdered and that there is no real abduction--This rarely happens though)
3. The family does not have a home phone, hence a wiretap is unnecesary. Or the neighborhood the child vanished in is a low income housing area that does not need such a wide search as the suspect and child is most likely withing the local area.(this happens all too frequently in high poverty areas)
4. There is a major unit wide investigation that takes precendence over a missing child and investigators cannnot be spared(such as an imminent
terrorist investigation, national security issue or other child abduction)

Truth be told...if the FBI wants to investigate something, they can come up with some reason to investigate it. if the FBI doesn't want to investigate something, they probably can come up with a reason not to investigate. :(

I'm still awaiting more information. I'm surprised this poster hasn't said more. Might be a troll. maybe not. who knows. I would like to hear more as well. That family knows the truth about what happened to her.

As I think about it, I wonder if Anthonette hadn't made previous arrangement to see somebody, perhaps an older man that she naively trusted but who she knew her mother would not approve her going out with, and that this man kidnapped her. Just one possibility.

She was nine years old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mozartpc27
As I think about it, I wonder if Anthonette hadn't made previous arrangement to see somebody, perhaps an older man that she naively trusted but who she knew her mother would not approve her going out with, and that this man kidnapped her. Just one possibility.


She was nine years old.

Her age is irrelevant when considering pedophilia.

The actual argument against this theory is why this guy had to break into the house to grab her? He could easily nab her outside in the same place he met her in the first place. If Antoinette's mother was aware of a strange guy going after her daughter...wouldn;t he be the first suspect???:confused:

I see nothing to indicate Anthonette's mom had anything to do with this at all. There is NO evidence to indicate that at all, that I can see. Anthonette's little sister coming forward after five years does not surprise me at all. Imagine the trauma! There is evidence of abduction, however. Jaycee's case comes to mind. So many people insisted her dad's story was not true when he witnessed the abduction...for years. They were ALL WRONG.

Her age is irrelevant when considering pedophilia.

That's not what I was saying. That other poster was suggesting that she had a boyfriend/adult male friend that her parents disapproved of. Nine-year-olds don't make arrangements to meet people either, and they're too young to be interested in grown men.

This is definitely one of the more unusual cases that I'd love to see solved (I hope she's alive). Just wondering, what does everyone think the chances are that the 14 year old girl in the restaurant was her?

I think it's definitely possible, but if it was... I wonder why it took 5 years for her to try and signal for help (maybe they rarely went out?). Especially with it being in public it would've been safer if she'd tried to escape or flat out ask someone for help.

In a way I hope that WASNT her - I'd hate to think she came close to being rescued only to go back into captivity and perhaps dead. :(

This is definitely one of the more unusual cases that I'd love to see solved (I hope she's alive). Just wondering, what does everyone think the chances are that the 14 year old girl in the restaurant was her?(

I think it was her for sure. The reason why is because I am sure the waitress would have been shown pictures of her extensively. The bizarre behaviour, the note, etc. It has to be her. I also believe that the phone call is her. Unless someone is doing a sick prank. But the mother's spine stiffening when she hears her daughters voice is good enough reason for me to believe it.

And yeah I would think that couple at the restaurant would never take her out at all. Maybe they threatened her if she talked which is why she was so privately seeking help. We don't know why it never happened again to be honest.

I am torn on her little sister's story. Why would a nine year old answer the door and not her mother? Why would her little 5 year old sister not alert her mother if her sister was abducted? Why wait 5 years to say something? And can the memory of a kid be that fresh 4 years later? For whatever reason that story screamed parallels of Larry Gibson's daughter and her fake story. But I could be wrong.

I think it was her for sure. The reason why is because I am sure the waitress would have been shown pictures of her extensively. The bizarre behaviour, the note, etc. It has to be her. I also believe that the phone call is her. Unless someone is doing a sick prank. But the mother's spine stiffening when she hears her daughters voice is good enough reason for me to believe it.

And yeah I would think that couple at the restaurant would never take her out at all. Maybe they threatened her if she talked which is why she was so privately seeking help. We don't know why it never happened again to be honest.

I am torn on her little sister's story. Why would a nine year old answer the door and not her mother? Why would her little 5 year old sister not alert her mother if her sister was abducted? Why wait 5 years to say something? And can the memory of a kid be that fresh 4 years later? For whatever reason that story screamed parallels of Larry Gibson's daughter and her fake story. But I could be wrong.

I have doubts re: the restaurant sighting. How does the girl have the time and opportunity to write out a help message, yet not to run a few feet over to help? Why take her out at all? The years that passed since Anthonette disappeared and the sighting gives me further pause; kids can change alot, regardless of age-enhanced composites.

The phone call, I find more credible; of course, I have nothing to base this upon other than the mother's insistence on it being Anthonette's voice.

I have doubts re: the restaurant sighting. How does the girl have the time and opportunity to write out a help message, yet not to run a few feet over to help? Why take her out at all? The years that passed since Anthonette disappeared and the sighting gives me further pause; kids can change alot, regardless of age-enhanced composites.

There have been many cases of abducted people whom seemed to have an opportunity to escape but don't seem to follow that logical pattern.
It's possible that Antoinette did try to do so and was severly punished in a failed attempt. That alone would make someone hesitant to try to escape. :(

"Stockholm syndrome" should also be considered.

The phone call, I find more credible; of course, I have nothing to base this upon other than the mother's insistence on it being Anthonette's voice.

The phone call could be as false as the above sighting IMHO. Her mother is a biased source.

It;s also possible this was a
1. prank call
2. scam to extort money.
3. mislead to hide the murder of Antoinette.

I am torn on her little sister's story. Why would a nine year old answer the door and not her mother? Why would her little 5 year old sister not alert her mother if her sister was abducted? Why wait 5 years to say something? And can the memory of a kid be that fresh 4 years later? For whatever reason that story screamed parallels of Larry Gibson's daughter and her fake story. But I could be wrong.

This whole story leads me to consider that this was not a stranger crime. That Antoinette knew her abductor.

I feel that the call was more likely to be legitimate than the restaurant sighting. Think of all the good-intentioned people on UM who were "absolutely sure" that they saw the victim, and they turned out to be wrong: I'm thinking of Gale Delano, Lisa Marie Kimmel, to name just a few.

Remember, the girl in the restaurant was hundreds of miles away from the abduction, and five years had passed; especially when it comes to children, think of how many child relatives that you don't see for five years, and when you see them again, you hardly recognize them. I just don't think that the girl was Antoinnette for some reason.

In terms of the call, and I mentioned this before: Since the girl was not in the jurisdiction of the original kidnapping when she called (she was in Albuquerque, according to the caller, how was she able to reach the local police station where Antoinnette was originally abducted? When you dial 911, you get the local police operating center, so the caller would have gotten the Albuquerque operator. For her to get the operator she got, wouldn't she have to dial a seven digit number of that specific precinct?

ok i've heard the call and the mom said it was her by the way she pronounced the last name. i do believe it was her, but the sighting was a bit odd. If it wasnt her then who was it? why would she write help??

There have been many cases of abducted people whom seemed to have an opportunity to escape but don't seem to follow that logical pattern.
It's possible that Antoinette did try to do so and was severly punished in a failed attempt. That alone would make someone hesitant to try to escape. :(

"Stockholm syndrome" should also be considered.


Exactly. The Stockholm syndrome gets underrated at times. If it was 4-5 years after the fact she may have gotten attached to these people or like I said before a threat of never trying to escape again could do that.

But it leads me to the Tara Calico picture. If that picture isn't here then who is it? Ditto for the girl in the restaurant. Who was that if it wasn't her? Who acts weird like that and writes for help? I guess it could have been someone in an abused household who was lashing out, but something tells me it was her.

ok i've heard the call and the mom said it was her by the way she pronounced the last name. i do believe it was her, but the sighting was a bit odd. If it wasnt her then who was it? why would she write help??

Well, I guess it could have been her, but it also could have been:

1) Someone playing a joke
2) Another girl who unfortunately had been kidnapped
3) Maybe a girl whose parents were abusive

The thing that makes me hesitant is that this was in another state, five years later.

In terms of the call, and I mentioned this before: Since the girl was not in the jurisdiction of the original kidnapping when she called (she was in Albuquerque, according to the caller, how was she able to reach the local police station where Antoinnette was originally abducted? When you dial 911, you get the local police operating center, so the caller would have gotten the Albuquerque operator. For her to get the operator she got, wouldn't she have to dial a seven digit number of that specific precinct?

Interesting point.

The caller may have said they had info on the Cayedito case. Considering that Alberquerque is a large city police department the may have a sophisticated phone system that allows call forwarding. The operators then may have patched her into the right jurisdiction and precinct. quite simply they put the call on hold and waited for the correct jurisdiction to come on the phone line.

Interesting point.

The caller may have said they had info on the Cayedito case. Considering that Alberquerque is a large city police department the may have a sophisticated phone system that allows call forwarding. The operators then may have patched her into the right jurisdiction and precinct. quite simply they put the call on hold and waited for the correct jurisdiction to come on the phone line.

I thought about that, but the call we heard played on UM sounded like the girl was urgently making a plea for help, as if the call had just been picked up by the operator; your idea means that the girl got someone else at first, told them it was about Cayedito, and then waited for the next operator to pick up. From the way the girl sounded, I find that hard to believe.

This is one of those cases where it would be nice to ask the officers some more questions and try to get some details.

I had some free time on my hands (well, actually I was procrastinating:) and read the thread again; I don't know UMers, if the two time poster above who seemed to be a local resident has any credibility, I tend to lean towards the possibility that the family is clearly hiding something, perhaps something sinister.

If we can give any credence to the posters remarks, apparently the locals tend to believe that this is what happened, and I would like to think they have more to base their beliefs on than we do.

The poster mentioned that one of the theories is that the mother was in on the idea of staging a kidnapping for money. If you start to think about that idea, the rest makes logical sense:

If the kidnapping was staged by the mother so that she would be kidnapped:

1) That's why the mother didn't answer the door at 3am, and Anntoinette did.
2) The call could have, in fact, been real! That might have been Anntoinette trying to get help.
3) Did you all notice that the sister couldn't remember anything UNTIL the LE began to re-question everybody after that call... that's when the mother might have told 10 year old sister to go with this scenario... in other words, "This is what happened, remember? Now tell them that." And lets face it, the story worked wonders. If you read the posts on this thread, 75% of them are basing all theories on the sister's claims.
4) The new, expensive car gotten two weeks after the kidnapping, which, according to the poster, was not a gift or charity, and the mother gave conflicting stories.
5) Add to that the absolute possibility that LE wanted to be politically correct and not create a backlash in the NA community by aggressively going after the mother.

I know well watch that program and think that the mother looks sad and is grieving, but the same could be said for Susan Smith, and many other mom's who actually made public appeals for their child's safe return. We all know that it can happen.

I'd be very interested to know if the mother took a polygraph test.

Is it possible to call the local LE office in Gallup NM and ask these questions? I've never done this before, but I know some of you had. What do you think? Should I shoot them an email for some updates???

Well stranger things have happened, after all Andrea Yates looked like a mother grieving until we all realized that it was her who drowned all of her children (not a UM segment). It's worth a shot to email the sheriff and throw that idea out to him, I will however say that I think they may have exhausted that possibility already. But you never know.

I am one that has always been skeptical of her sister's story about answering the door at 3am. Where was the mother? Did she even wake up? And why remember that 5 years later? It could have been a dream when you think of it and the kid thinks its real after all this time.

Is it possible to call the local LE office in Gallup NM and ask these questions? I've never done this before, but I know some of you had. What do you think? Should I shoot them an email for some updates???

Keep in mind that the FBI was involved directly in this investigation. Gallup NM may not own the file.Especially considering this was a kidnapping. The FBI had jurisdiction in the first 48 hours and they were involved with wiretapping. The information they give you may be limited. Or they may be unable to share information on a federal investigation.

If the FBI was involved you would have to contact the Alberquerque FBI Resident agency. If you do, try to avoid getting dumped to public relations blackhole. Try to see if you can get the email of the agent(s) that are stationed on the reservations around Gallup. You may be able to get the name of those agent(s) via the Gallup police. Maybe Gallup has an FBI liason stationed? ( i doubt it in this current terrorism climate).


If the mother is involved in this it is more likely she is guilty of murder than of staging a kidnapping.

If she was involved in a kidnapping her daughter to "sell" to someone, it makes no sense why she would be trying so hard to find her daughter. She stands a lot to lose if Antoinette is identified and found. She could go to jail or suffer retribution from the people she sold Antoinette to. Why is she going on UM, which could increase the chances of Antoinette being found? Why would she affirm that the voice on the call is indeed Antoinette? Wouldn;t it be in her best interest to denounce that the voice is Antoinette? Affirming it just puts the police on the right track and potentially leading to Antoinette being found.

Now, if Antoinette was killed by her mother, the above actions make a lot more sense. It makes a lot of sense for the mother to actively search for Antoinette. It helps bolster the kidnapping story. It has no negative reprecussions in that Antoinette cannot be found since she's dead. Going on UM and affirming the phone call provide perfect cover for hiding Antoinettes death.

Add to that the absolute possibility that LE wanted to be politically correct and not create a backlash in the NA community by aggressively going after the mother.

This is an interesting jurisdictional snafu.

Technically the FBI are only interested in the kidnapping angle, while the Gallup Police would take lead on the murder case. But there is the reservation issue which technically makes the FBI involved on even a simple murder case.

I could see the Gallup police worrying about backlash. But would the FBI take the same concern. I don;t know the answer to that...depends how the federal relations were in tribal areas around the time.


I tend to lean towards the possibility that the family is clearly hiding something, perhaps something sinister.

I think the Cayedito family may have been involved in some illegal activity (drugs, contraband, illegal immigration)

This could explain the car and why Antoinette's mother is hesitant in her explanation.

This also could explain why Antoinette was kidnapped. Antoinette possibly could have been kidnapped as a marker or as retribution.

Perhaps Uncle Joe owed someone money. It would explain why they used him as the name to lure Antoinette. Heck Uncle Joe may have actually been the one that took Antoinette.

I am one that has always been skeptical of her sister's story about answering the door at 3am. Where was the mother? Did she even wake up? And why remember that 5 years later? It could have been a dream when you think of it and the kid thinks its real after all this time.

I think the sister's story is partially true. I think Antoinette was kidnapped, but I don't think it was as forceful an abduction as what was depicted. I have a feeling the abduction was more casual and that the Cayedito's knew the people that came for Antoinette.

Hi,

For what it's worth, I don't think the family was involved at all but that is really neither here nor there. I cannot believe that the FBI was involved and somehow overlooked this rumored car or any other shady dealings. Of course, the first place they are going to look is the family and the very fact that they kept this an active investigation over several years makes me certain that they checked out and cleared the family.

Also, I have posted this earlier but several websites now claim that the FBI & police believe Anthonette is now dead. There is no reason for them to make such a claim unless they know more than what is known publicly. Also, at the end of the episode, Stack notes that the psychic Indian healer gave details which were surprisingly in line with what the FBI investigation had turned up but does not elaborate. I think that there is much more to this case than meets the eye but that we will never know unless somebody does somehow a freedom of information request and even then who knows what is classified and declassified after nearly 25 years.

What I really wanted to say when I hit reply is that a year or two ago I contacted the Gallup Police Department via their website and never received any type of reply, not even an acknowledgment. Good luck if any of you contact them. Perhaps a call is a better approach?

Just watched this again today and I have to say, I think it was an inside job too...too many unexplained things from the family. Like where were they in the middle of the night and why was the kids answering the door?

Still, maybe there is a chance she is still alive.

I think the family was involved in some sort of way. They may not have orchestrated it, but I believe they may know who took her and aren't saying who it is. Did anyone see the movie "Man on Fire" with Denzel Washington? In that movie, Denzel is a bodyguard to a little girl whose father sets up a kidnapping so he can collect on the insurance money when all hell breaks loose. I'm not saying that happened in Anthonette's case but I wouldn't be surprised. My only question would be that, if that were true, why would her mother be parading all over TV pleading for the return of her daughter? The kidnappers may get pissed any phone in an anonymous tip that the parents were in on it.

Also, I find it very odd that two young children are awake and alert at 3am and answering the door. When I was a kid, I was afraid of walking around the house that late at night, let alone answering a door. I wonder if the mother had said something to Anthonette earlier in the day, possibly letting her know that she was expecting someone and for her to answer the door if they identified themselves as "Uncle Joe". Basically what I'm getting at, is that this was planned and the mother's part was to make sure Anthonette answered the door.

Maybe the plan backfired and Anthonette was sold to someone else or killed. I don't know what happened, but I believe the family knows more than they are letting on.

My only question would be that, if that were true, why would her mother be parading all over TV pleading for the return of her daughter? The kidnappers may get pissed any phone in an anonymous tip that the parents were in on it.

1.Well, it would be suspicious if she didn't try to do everything to get her daughter back.

2. If she knows the daughter is dead and knows that the perp will never be found (like the perp is a family member, dead or in jail), there really is no risk in bringing the case to UM.

This case has always fascinated me as well and I think there must be many details that UM left out.

As other posters have mentioned, I, too, have always been puzzled why the girls would be up at 3AM – or that Anthonette would go to the door and ask who was there. Everyone is different, but if I heard the door knocking at 3AM at age 9, I would no way in hell go to answer it by myself (hell, even now I’d be terrified); I would run to my mom’s room, wake her up, and tell her that someone is at the door. Why didn’t the knock/voices wake up Penny? I guess she might be a heavy sleeper, but it seems odd. If their house looked anything like the reenactment house, it wasn't that big. Not that I suspect her as having anything to do with her daughter’s disappearance; she seemed very heartbroken and desperate to find Anthonette. The lip licking? Maybe she just has dry lips. LOL. But seriously, I never suspected her. Why would she go to that clairvoyant lady? Unless they were in cahoots or something, wouldn’t Penny be afraid that the clairvoyant would find her out? I guess that all depends on if you believe in psychics, but there’s always a chance. That’s why I don’t see Penny as being so willing to go to the clairvoyant if she were a guilty person herself.

The poster who stated that he/she was a friend to Anthonette and that there was a party the night she disappeared sheds a bit more light on things, though. Maybe the party ran late and that’s why the girls were still up. They assumed the door knocker was a partier/family member who had possibly forgotten something at their house and this eliminated some of their fear. Why didn’t UM mention the party, though? What reason would there be to leave that detail out? This may seem "out there", but Penny may have gotten hammered at the party and that explains her “dead to the world” slumber that night!

The sex slave/prostitution theory seems the most likely to me. I really can’t think of another motive….. unless someone had a vendetta against the Cayedito family that UM didn’t mention, and they kidnapped Anthonette for revenge.

This case has always fascinated me as well and I think there must be many details that UM left out.

As other posters have mentioned, I, too, have always been puzzled why the girls would be up at 3AM – or that Anthonette would go to the door and ask who was there. Everyone is different, but if I heard the door knocking at 3AM at age 9, I would no way in hell go to answer it by myself (hell, even now I’d be terrified); I would run to my mom’s room, wake her up, and tell her that someone is at the door. Why didn’t the knock/voices wake up Penny? I guess she might be a heavy sleeper, but it seems odd. If their house looked anything like the reenactment house, it wasn't that big. Not that I suspect her as having anything to do with her daughter’s disappearance; she seemed very heartbroken and desperate to find Anthonette. The lip licking? Maybe she just has dry lips. LOL. But seriously, I never suspected her. Why would she go to that clairvoyant lady? Unless they were in cahoots or something, wouldn’t Penny be afraid that the clairvoyant would find her out? I guess that all depends on if you believe in psychics, but there’s always a chance. That’s why I don’t see Penny as being so willing to go to the clairvoyant if she were a guilty person herself.

The poster who stated that he/she was a friend to Anthonette and that there was a party the night she disappeared sheds a bit more light on things, though. Maybe the party ran late and that’s why the girls were still up. They assumed the door knocker was a partier/family member who had possibly forgotten something at their house and this eliminated some of their fear. Why didn’t UM mention the party, though? What reason would there be to leave that detail out? This may seem "out there", but Penny may have gotten hammered at the party and that explains her “dead to the world” slumber that night!

The sex slave/prostitution theory seems the most likely to me. I really can’t think of another motive….. unless someone had a vendetta against the Cayedito family that UM didn’t mention, and they kidnapped Anthonette for revenge.

Good points! Yeah, the whole "answering the door at 3am" threw me off too; the poster who said there was a huge neighborhood party going on added more to the mystery. For all we know, the mom wasn't even in the home when the supposed knock on the door happened. Maybe she was still out at the "party."

What I am more perplexed by is the fact that the whole "knock on the door/Uncle Joe" thing was relayed to the LE 5 years after Anthonette vanished. I'm still not convinced that what the sister said is exactly what happened.

I'm leaning towards thinking the mother did not have something to do with the kidnapping, but I also think that the segment (through no fault of its own) probably left out some things that might not put the family in the best of light. I've often read that LE purposely presents a positive image of the family so that the public will be more likely to help and come forward. If we were to hear, for example, that mom was passed out drunk, or that mom frequently had male visitors over all the time, and the girls were used to opening the door for them at all hours of the night, the public might be a little less sympathetic.

I don't know.. This is a true mystery, and I wish we could read the police report to know everything there is to know about this one; something tells me we'd be surprised. :eek3:

The poster who stated that he/she was a friend to Anthonette and that there was a party the night she disappeared sheds a bit more light on things, though. Maybe the party ran late and that’s why the girls were still up. They assumed the door knocker was a partier/family member who had possibly forgotten something at their house and this eliminated some of their fear. Why didn’t UM mention the party, though? What reason would there be to leave that detail out? This may seem "out there", but Penny may have gotten hammered at the party and that explains her “dead to the world” slumber that night!

I took it to mean that there was a neighborhood party somewhere else in the neighborhood, not at the Cayedito residence. If it was at the Cayedito's, maybe the perpetrator(s) were at the party and purposely tried to get Penny drunk enough or slipped her some type of pill so that she wouldn't answer the door late at night and they could grab Anthonette. However, I don't think the party was at their house because if so, UM definitely would have mentioned it or at least put out a plea to the party goers that night to see if they remembered a guest that drove a similar vehicle at the kidnappers or even remembered any type of suspicious activity.

The neighborhood party that the friend posted about, could have been at another house in the same neighborhood and perhaps the perps knew the mom was at this party and knew the girls would be home alone. That may have also been why Anthonette answered the door to begin with. She may have thought it was her mom coming back home. It makes sense if you believe that the mother was not home to begin with, which is what I think.

It would make no sense for the girls to wake up at 3 am and answer the door if their mother was home. No way. I have a 6 year old and he would not answer the door, let alone hear the knocking at 3 am. :rolleyes:

This is a very sad case. I do believe the 911 call to be Anthonette. The child's voice sounds authentic. I'm not too sure about the diner sighting however. We all know how unreliable witness's can be. It's hard to tell. :confused:

I think that there is a slim chance that Anthonette may still be alive. After all, look at Jaycee Dugard. You can't rule it out entirely.

As for the younger sister's account of what happened, why would she make that up is my question? Especially 5 years later. I think she is telling the truth.
:(

Good points! Yeah, the whole "answering the door at 3am" threw me off too; the poster who said there was a huge neighborhood party going on added more to the mystery. For all we know, the mom wasn't even in the home when the supposed knock on the door happened. Maybe she was still out at the "party."

What I am more perplexed by is the fact that the whole "knock on the door/Uncle Joe" thing was relayed to the LE 5 years after Anthonette vanished. I'm still not convinced that what the sister said is exactly what happened.

I'm leaning towards thinking the mother did not have something to do with the kidnapping, but I also think that the segment (through no fault of its own) probably left out some things that might not put the family in the best of light. I've often read that LE purposely presents a positive image of the family so that the public will be more likely to help and come forward. If we were to hear, for example, that mom was passed out drunk, or that mom frequently had male visitors over all the time, and the girls were used to opening the door for them at all hours of the night, the public might be a little less sympathetic.

I don't know.. This is a true mystery, and I wish we could read the police report to know everything there is to know about this one; something tells me we'd be surprised. :eek3:

Remember that the whole party is double-hearsay at best, with an anonymous poster saying a friend told him/her about it. The tone of it was more to suggest that the kidnapper could have used the party as cover to escape.

I think the sister's story is the truth as she now remembers it, although I agree 100% that the actual truth of it is incredibly problematic.

Many posters here are accusing the mother. The parents are, of course, always the first suspect. Nothing in the segment indicated that she was a suspect and had not been cleared by LE. While I agree with you that UM does leave things out to make people look better, as I stated before, I can't imagine the mother wasn't investigated and cleared and the various issues brought up here have been resolved. I suppose if LE didn't do its job (which there is no evidence of), she could have been improperly investigated, but I'm certainly not going to assume this.

I agree too that there's likely more to the story which could take everything in a new direction.

The neighborhood party that the friend posted about, could have been at another house in the same neighborhood and perhaps the perps knew the mom was at this party and knew the girls would be home alone. That may have also been why Anthonette answered the door to begin with. She may have thought it was her mom coming back home. It makes sense if you believe that the mother was not home to begin with, which is what I think.

Since we have so little information on the party and even its existence is a question-mark, I don't think we can infer anything about it.

It would make no sense for the girls to wake up at 3 am and answer the door if their mother was home. No way. I have a 6 year old and he would not answer the door, let alone hear the knocking at 3 am. :rolleyes:

I agree, as do most posters, it seems. This point of the story (if, indeed, it even occurs) needs more context to judge its credibility.

This is a very sad case. I do believe the 911 call to be Anthonette. The child's voice sounds authentic. I'm not too sure about the diner sighting however. We all know how unreliable witness's can be. It's hard to tell. :confused:

Like I said before, if the 911 call isn't real, it's a good hoax. I can't accept the diner sighting, though.

I think that there is a slim chance that Anthonette may still be alive. After all, look at Jaycee Dugard. You can't rule it out entirely.

I don't think anyone is, but Dugard is generally the exception, not the rule. If Anthonette is still alive, I would think it likely she has little memory of being "Anthonette Cayedito"

As for the younger sister's account of what happened, why would she make that up is my question? Especially 5 years later. I think she is telling the truth.:(

I suppose there are three possible answers: (1) She's lying, for unknown (personal) motives; (2) She's been coached to tell the story (which would indicate it was an inside job); or (my belief), (3) she BELIEVES it to be be the truth.

Personally, I believe the last. I don't think Wendy's making it up, per say, but I also don't think it's an accurate account of what happened. Memories just don't work like that; stories don't improve five years after the occurrence, and five years is an awfully long time for any story to become corrupted with false memory, etc. I'm not implying any malice on Wendy's part, but it's just a fact that memories are sharpest right after an event, not years later, especially for a child.

Wendy is active on Facebook. I wonder if anyone's attempted to talk to her about the case recently.

Hi, I'm not on Facebook. Would somebody be willing to contact Wendy and see if she would answer some of our questions or make a posting or something?

Does she go by the last name "Cayedito" as well? Is she married now? I can look her up if I know what the last name is that she currently uses.

Does she go by the last name "Cayedito" as well? Is she married now? I can look her up if I know what the last name is that she currently uses.

Here is a link to a facebook site for Anthonette:
http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000426849329&ref=search

Her sister is listed and linked there.

the person who knocked on the door did say it was her uncle joe.
its a very close family so she probably seen no harm in answering the door for him.
if her mom was involved she wouldnt have stayed in contact with the gallup police until the day she died,especially after being cleared for this long, and her sisters wouldnt still be in contact with them to this day.

the person who knocked on the door did say it was her uncle joe.
its a very close family so she probably seen no harm in answering the door for him.
if her mom was involved she wouldnt have stayed in contact with the gallup police until the day she died,especially after being cleared for this long, and her sisters wouldnt still be in contact with them to this day.

Hi,

Thanks for posting. Did Penny Cayedito pass away? If so, I'm sorry to hear this.

Anything is possible, and there may be a good chance she is still alive, but for whatever reason just hasn't contacted anyone. But Anthonette would be in her mid 30's by now if still alive. I really have a hard time believing anyone who's been alive for this long wouldn't of found some way to either escape or contact help. I believe if she wasn't murdered, then she most likely committed suicide.

I have spoken with Wendy,the last time being about 6 months ago.
The thing I found odd,was that she stated to me that her sister is more "up to date",on the case,and that they do not really speak. I did not ask her why,it's not my business. But I did find it to be a little odd. Apparently,according to Wendy,there has been no further information about this case,but again she said her sister might know more.
Penny did die,never knowing what happened to Anthonette. How sad.
And no,under no uncertain terms do I think she had ANYTHING to do with it,you can just see it in her eyes during interviews,the pain in her voice. Also,because I took a real interest in this case,I have viewed other news stories and such about Anthonette,and it's just painfully obvious that Penny had nothing to do with it.
Is it possible that there was in fact a rambunctious party that night,that went well into night? Possibly. And perhaps she feels extreme guilt about it,knowing that there was a possibility that that was a factor in her kidnapping? Again,I'd believe that could be the case.
But,that's just me. I do believe that she herself had nothing to do with her daughters disappearance.

Concerning the actual kidnapping story itself, I've grown to think the UM portrayal is a gross deviation from the circumstances of that night. The story that some posters have mentioned about a party going on into the wee hours of the night makes much more sense than two children under the age of ten randomly waking up at 3 AM to answer the door.

However, I'm not incredibly comfortable with Wendy's story either. Maybe it did happen just as she described and I'm completely wrong. But:

1. Why finally bring this up five years later? I used to think that maybe her claims of upsetting her mother more were legitimate, but now I'm not so sure. Something doesn't seem right about it, especially considering this is a child here. Sometimes they say things for reasons beyond adult comprehension.

2. Why didn't Anthonette's abductors either take or silence Wendy? Did they not notice her there? I have a hard time believing she was left completely out of that ordeal.

3. I don't have children and it's been a very, very long time since I've been five years old, but is it a normal reaction for a five year old child to just stand there and remain silent on the issue for five years? It's likely the event was so traumatic it literally stunned her, but I just don't understand why she wouldn't have told her mother the next morning what happened--especially before her mother became upset and starting "crying and everything"--which was the sole reason she gave for not telling her story initially. Wendy apparently had no memory loss, after all.

3. I don't have children and it's been a very, very long time since I've been five years old, but is it a normal reaction for a five year old child to just stand there and remain silent on the issue for five years? It's likely the event was so traumatic it literally stunned her, but I just don't understand why she wouldn't have told her mother the next morning what happened--especially before her mother became upset and starting "crying and everything"--which was the sole reason she gave for not telling her story initially. Wendy apparently had no memory loss, after all.

Apparently it's not a unique reaction. Practically the same thing transpired with Elizabeth Smart's sister. Repeatedly questioned about the night her sister disappeared, all she said was that she recognized the voice of the abductor. Then, nearly two years later, she said, "I think it was Emmanuel", singlehandedly providing the missing piece of the puzzle! Perhaps there is a correlation between being young and scared and memory suppression?!:p

Apparently it's not a unique reaction. Practically the same thing transpired with Elizabeth Smart's sister. Repeatedly questioned about the night her sister disappeared, all she said was that she recognized the voice of the abductor. Then, nearly two years later, she said, "I think it was Emmanuel", singlehandedly providing the missing piece of the puzzle! Perhaps there is a correlation between being young and scared and memory suppression?!:p

That's a very good hypothesis. I think it's self-defeating to apply an adult's logic and mind to a child's, so I can definitely accept that possibility. It would explain most of the questions I have about Wendy's story.

Concerning the actual kidnapping story itself, I've grown to think the UM portrayal is a gross deviation from the circumstances of that night. The story that some posters have mentioned about a party going on into the wee hours of the night makes much more sense than two children under the age of ten randomly waking up at 3 AM to answer the door.

However, I'm not incredibly comfortable with Wendy's story either. Maybe it did happen just as she described and I'm completely wrong. But:

1. Why finally bring this up five years later? I used to think that maybe her claims of upsetting her mother more were legitimate, but now I'm not so sure. Something doesn't seem right about it, especially considering this is a child here. Sometimes they say things for reasons beyond adult comprehension.

2. Why didn't Anthonette's abductors either take or silence Wendy? Did they not notice her there? I have a hard time believing she was left completely out of that ordeal.

3. I don't have children and it's been a very, very long time since I've been five years old, but is it a normal reaction for a five year old child to just stand there and remain silent on the issue for five years? It's likely the event was so traumatic it literally stunned her, but I just don't understand why she wouldn't have told her mother the next morning what happened--especially before her mother became upset and starting "crying and everything"--which was the sole reason she gave for not telling her story initially. Wendy apparently had no memory loss, after all.

I agree with every question you posed in your post. I also found it odd that two young girls under the age of ten would be answering a knock at 3 in the morning. I also thought it was weird that Wendy witnessed her sister being kidnapped, yet did not make any attempt to wake her parents, nor tell them about it the next morning. That makes me think she was coached somehow. Pure speculation here, but is it possible that someone from inside the house set up a "sale" for Anthonette? If this were an inside job anything could have really happened to her and this story of her abduction could have simply been made up from the fly.

Maybe all it took to silence Wendy was a verbal threat from the kidnapper? You know, such as how kids can be told in situations of abuse, "If you tell your parents I will come back and kill your family!", and that is (understandably, I think) enough to keep them quiet for a long time. But that then begs the question of why she did speak up 5 years later--did she think there was no longer a threat, and why not?

Personally, I feel Anthonette is still alive somewhere, though she probably has no recollection of "who" she was before her abduction. I've read that statistically in abductions, younger female victims (children) have the highest survival rate, whereas young women (think teens to 30s) have the lowest survival rate.

I agree with every question you posed in your post. I also found it odd that two young girls under the age of ten would be answering a knock at 3 in the morning. I also thought it was weird that Wendy witnessed her sister being kidnapped, yet did not make any attempt to wake her parents, nor tell them about it the next morning. That makes me think she was coached somehow. Pure speculation here, but is it possible that someone from inside the house set up a "sale" for Anthonette? If this were an inside job anything could have really happened to her and this story of her abduction could have simply been made up from the fly.

Kinda like that movie "Man on Fire" where the father sets up the kidnapping so he can pay off his debts only for all hell to break loose with the ransom drop.

Just re-watched the segment for the first time in awhile, and I really don't know what to think happened. On the one hand people have theorized that something "accidental" happened that night and since Anthonette's mother was allegedly at a party when she disappeared, she was attempting to cover it all up by concocting the kidnapping. I find this very unlikely. For one, there is no evidence (other than a poster claiming it happened on this forum) that a party even occurred the night Anthonette disappeared/was kidnapped. Secondly, that would be one hell of an act for a mother to pull off all of these years, keeping up the facade of "looking" for your daughter when you knew full well what happened to her. Also, don't you think the investigators looking into the case (especially the FBI) would have uncovered something amiss with her story if it in fact was all a lie? All it would take would be one question, "Where were you at when your daughter was taken?" and her whole story would have unravelled.

The other theory is of course the one UM presented, with Anthonette being abducted by someone claiming to be her "Uncle Joe", and her sister witnessing the entire abduction. There are problems with this scenario as well. For one, her sister did not tell anyone about this for five whole years, and it wasn't until she was requestioned by investigators that she finally did reveal what she allegedly saw. Also, if she was witnessing her sister being taken away, she made absolutely no effort to seek help, and apparently went back to sleep and woke up the next morning pretending that nothing happened, and kept silent about it for years. Something that I don't think a small child would have done in that situation, especially if their sister was being abducted by strangers. The very least she could have done was screamed for help when it was happening. Her reasoning of not telling her mother because she was "crying and upset" doesn't make sense either, because when her mother woke up the next morning, she obviously wouldn't have known anything was amiss. She had the perfect time to tell her mother when she first woke up, yet she didn't do so. Even when her mother was frantically searching the house and neighborhood (probably in hysterics) she decided not to tell her mother. Which is why I personally think it was all made up by her sister. Not to mention the fact that her "abductor" would have no way of knowing that Anthonette would be the one to answer the door, while he was knocking at three in the morning! What would have happened if one of her other sisters answered, would they have been abducted instead? Or what if her mother answered the door, or no one answered at all? Doesn't seem very well thought out for a planned kidnapping if you ask me. This means the only account we have to go on about what happened to her is very unreliable, IMHO.

I personally don't believe the eyewitness sighting from the restaurant. For one, the waitress was basing her sighting off of a "computer aged composite" of what Anthonette may have looked like. And how many times did UM feature "witnesses" who swore they saw a missing person, or gave them a ride, only to have an update saying that they were dead at the time the person is alleged to have seen them? As to the 911 call, I personally think it was a sick joke. I can't remember if the call happened a year to the day Anthonette went missing, but if it did that surely makes it seem like a hoax. I know the mother was so sure that it was Anthonette on the phone, but again there were countless times on UM when a family member, who's holding out hope that their loved one is still alive, have misidentified people before. In the 911 call, the girl just kept repeating her name over and over, and it wasn't until the dispatcher asked where she was that she said, "Albuquerque". Seems like she'd be more frantic to give out details, but then again we don't know what the mindset of a kidnapped ten year old girl would be in that situation. I just think it's odd that the girl kept repeating, "THIS IS ANTHONETTE CAYEDITO" over and over again, instead of pleading for help. It just seems unlikely to me that a ten year old girl would be smart enough to know that her kidnapping gained much "notoriety" to the point that the dispatcher would recognize her by her name. Maybe it's just me, but I think it was a hoax.

In all honesty, I have no idea what happened to Anthonette, but I think all of us can agree that she's most likely dead. Hell, for all we know it could have been something accidental that happened between the sisters in the house, who hid the secret for years out of fear. Hopefully she'll be found (alive moreso), so maybe we'll get closer to knowing what actually happened to her.

I don't really buy the little girl's story either - it was more then likely a random kidnapping just not how she described it to be.

I don't really buy the little girl's story either - it was more then likely a random kidnapping just not how she described it to be.

Or it was a made-up story altogether. If it really was a random kidnapping (ie stranger) and didn't go the way it was described by the sister, why would she even bother to make those details up ("it's your Uncle", etc.)?

I'm starting to think the mother is involved. She set up the kidnapping for whatever reason. It may sound mean, but that's the main impression I get from this extremely weird kidnapping

I didn't get that impression from the mother, but I have to wonder if other family members were involved; the "Uncle Joe" story is extremely far-fetched though. At 5, I would have run and told my mother even if I was scared. It's just too weird.

It's been along time since I've since his case but I have a 5 year old son. He tells everything to everyone. I just don't believe the story the kid told. Also how can a 5 year old kid tell a story 5 years later and be reliable? I just don't buy that she was kidnapped. I think something tragic happened that night and we may never know what happened to her.

It's been along time since I've since his case but I have a 5 year old son. He tells everything to everyone. I just don't believe the story the kid told. Also how can a 5 year old kid tell a story 5 years later and be reliable? I just don't buy that she was kidnapped. I think something tragic happened that night and we may never know what happened to her.

Completely agree. I have a 3 yr old and once she gets to talking, she doesn't stop! I can imagine how a 5 yr old would be. I agree that something else may have happened accidentally and the whole kidnapping story was just a ruse.

I can't imagine any 5 year old child witnessing their sibling being abducted by strangers simply going back to sleep and not telling a soul about it for five whole years. The whole story is made up, IMO. Whether or not it was coached is up for debate, but I still think it was made up.

I'm kind of surprised that the sister's account of what happened is left out of the brief summary on the case on the official site: http://www.unsolved.com/missing.html

I read it to see if I could gather any kind of deception from the mother's quotes. I suppose if an accident happened that night and Anthonette died, they could have buried her in their backyard and no one probably searched there, since it refers to searchers looking for her in the foothills.

It's easy to write off the phone call as a possible hoax, but is the restaurant exchange with a girl and a waitress in a Carson City restuarant as easy to do? Or was it just a more elaborate hoax done by people who just get their jollies pranking people? Or was it actually Anthonette? Or was it actually some other girl that was being held against her will?

I agree with all of you that it is a super long period of time that went by before the sister came forward with this information. However, does anyone remember in the Elizabeth Smart case, the little sister Mary-Beth came to her parents I think 6 months after she was missing and said that she knew who had kidnapped Elizabeth. And it was only then that the FBI had the name Emmanuel and a composite sketch to go by. Where I do realize that 6 months of silence is quite a bit different than 5 years of silence, both girls told their tales at the age of 10 years old. Just some thoughts....

I just REALLY want to know what happened in this particular case, the phone call, the sister, the waitress, whole scenario! I hope that this one would be resolved.

I agree with all of you that it is a super long period of time that went by before the sister came forward with this information. However, does anyone remember in the Elizabeth Smart case, the little sister Mary-Beth came to her parents I think 6 months after she was missing and said that she knew who had kidnapped Elizabeth. And it was only then that the FBI had the name Emmanuel and a composite sketch to go by. Where I do realize that 6 months of silence is quite a bit different than 5 years of silence, both girls told their tales at the age of 10 years old. Just some thoughts....

I just REALLY want to know what happened in this particular case, the phone call, the sister, the waitress, whole scenario! I hope that this one would be resolved.

I agree with you on all points except in the Smart case, the sister didn't know the whole time, IIRC. I think she was trying to remember where she had heard that voice before and it took her a while to figure it out.

I just REALLY want to know what happened in this particular case, the phone call, the sister, the waitress, whole scenario! I hope that this one would be resolved.

The phone call is up in the air as to whether or not it was a hoax. At the time the segment was filmed, the authorities believed there was a possibility that Anthonette was still alive which would lead some credibility to the sighting by the waitress. We all know how unreliable eyewitnesses can be, and the waitress was basing her sighting off of what Anthonette may have looked like, so I tend to think that the restaurant sighting was someone else. It'd still interesting to find out who the girl at the restaurant was, and if she indeed was in trouble.

I haven't read all ten pages of this thread yet, so I apologize if this has been mentioned. But didn't someone on here mention there had been a party that night? I didn't hear that in the UM segment or on the Charley website. Was this in an article or something? If it was indeed the case there was a party at the house that night, that raises more possibilities. Like, maybe after the party had ended some drunk dude tried to get back in, not caring who answered. And she knew him and went with him and something happened? Or he just decided to grab her on the spur of the moment.

As has been stated, the abduction scenario provided doesn't make much sense unless the person wasn't that concerned who would open the door (maybe he was a family member or friend and it wouldn't be that big a deal if one of the parents answered.) Or he somehow knew through pre-arrangement it would be one of the girls. Like he somehow arranged to meet Anthonette as someone suggested. But I think the former is more likely. He didn't have anything to fear if he got the wrong person at the door. Perhaps the abduction wasn't planned at all and he just grabbed her (or she came with him and the sister isn't remembering correctly).

I know that might seem far fetched but it seems really unlikely someone would just plan an abduction like that without knowing for sure who would answer at 3 am. Unless they had somehow pre-arranged to meet her.

Or providing there was a party, something different happened. Maybe there were lots of people in the house, drunk hangers on afterwards, etc. I think the party scenario makes the knock at the door at 3 am more plausible. If the poster was correct and there was a party.

Hey, thanks for the responses guys..... I don't know what you mean about me contradicting myself.. I did write that post late, and it wasn't worded very well. My point is, after watching the segment, I just wonder how the little girl was able to call her local town's emergency number from another part of the state. That's all.

So many questions, really.

Hmm. That's very interesting that she couldn't have just dialed 911. Makes it seem it would be a little harder for her to have made the call. The call does sound realistic but I don't think it would be very hard for an adult to convince a child to go along with a prank. Perhaps it was the kidnapper/killer trying to confuse the investigation. Seems a really odd thing to do but people do all sorts of things when they're paranoid.

I'm not sure how much we can trust the mother's account that it was Anthonette. That other mother in the Tara Calico case was just as adamant that it was her son in the photo and then he was found not far off from where he disappeared from the campsite - making it a huge stretch that it could have possibly been him in the photo.

I don't know. I'm also split on the phone call.

I don't think the mother did it. She seemed really sincere. Though it's possible she knows something she isn't telling.

I just watched this segment as well:

I agree with most of you: I think that Anthonette was kidnapped for sex trafficking or prostitution purposes (perhaps even pornography), and after her "lucrative" age had expired, she was killed. I hate to say it, but it just doesn't seem realistic to think she's still alive.

I mean, I guess if she was brainwashed, she could be living somewhere in an abusive relationship, or with someone and have little recollection of her former life, but who knows.

One question.... what always struck me was... the 911 call, it was from Albecerque, so she couldn't have dialed 911, she would have needed the local emergency number for her specific village's emergency center, right? I don't even know my own local emergency number, let alone a young little girl. Know what I mean? How did she know where to call, the number, and the 911 call seemed so staged, like, she called, and immediately a man said "who told you you could use the phone." I'm not saying it was a hoax, but Im not positive about it. Obviously, a mom will want it to be their daughter to keep the hope alive.

As we all know, there have been so many UM segments where "legitimate leads" have proved to be false, and I wonder if we might someday learn that she was killed hours after the kidnapping, etc.

Anybody care to comment... particularly on the 911 call. Regardless, this is a VERY sad case, and very frustrating... The mom must be a very strong woman.

I'm confused. Why couldn't the call have been a 911 call just because it was in Albuquerque? I think it was a 911 call, not to her local hometown, and the police in Albuquerque then took note of the name and connected it to the case.

I'm confused. Why couldn't the call have been a 911 call just because it was in Albuquerque? I think it was a 911 call, not to her local hometown, and the police in Albuquerque then took note of the name and connected it to the case.

I think the term that's been used in this forum, "911 call" is misleading. In the UM segment, they say that a call came into the Gallup Police Station. I believe this was the point that mattc was trying to make. If Anthonette was abducted, a.) how would she know where she was being held captive, and b.) how would she know the telephone number to the local police station where she was being held? I believe that when someone dials 911 they are sent to a "dispatch center", not a police station. And if this is true, I don't belive the call to be authentic.

I think the term that's been used in this forum, "911 call" is misleading. In the UM segment, they say that a call came into the Gallup Police Station. I believe this was the point that mattc was trying to make. If Anthonette was abducted, a.) how would she know where she was being held captive, and b.) how would she know the telephone number to the local police station where she was being held? I believe that when someone dials 911 they are sent to a "dispatch center", not a police station. And if this is true, I don't belive the call to be authentic.

Oh, I see. I was really confused for a second. The only explanation I can think of is that when I was growing up in the 90s, a lot of my grandmother's old phones actually had the local police dept number sticker on them. I've seen others like them: Local Police: (insert number here) Emergency: 911. Or was Gallup the place where she was actually from? It's been a while since I last saw the segment.

I still think that the call is authentic. It just sounds too real. I know that doesn't sound like a credible mode of judgment, but the little girl who called was genuinely a little girl and terrified- and she said her name correctly. Also what's tragic is that as a little girl she just said her name flat out, as though the police would know immediately who she was and that she needed help.

Also what's tragic is that as a little girl she just said her name flat out, as though the police would know immediately who she was and that she needed help.

This is another reason why I don't believe the call to be authentic.

I always thought the family was involved somehow. 3am 5yr old opening door didn't sit right with me. The call could be real. Perhaps anttoinette wasn't aware that her mother or father had anything to do with it. When they mentioned the sister bringing up details of the abduction five years later my first thoughts were that she was coached somehow, maybe not knowing she was because afterall she was very young when it all happenned. In mqny cases there are many bits and important pieces of information that the public doesn't know about. The hometown poster who shared information led me to believe the town knows more about the case than we do. There is also a comment on the YouTube video of this segment from a user saying that penny admitted to selling her daughter on her deathbed whichmay be b.s. but seemed interesting when I read it.

This is another reason why I don't believe the call to be authentic.

I actually thought of this as a reason to find the call authentic, as a fearful kidnapped child would probably blurt her name out and expect help without clarification. The fear in her voice seemed too genuine to me to be a hoax.

I actually thought of this as a reason to find the call authentic, as a fearful kidnapped child would probably blurt her name out and expect help without clarification. The fear in her voice seemed too genuine to me to be a hoax.

Would a ten year old girl really be clever enough to know her case gained enough notoriety to where she could just say her name instead of saying she needed help, she was kidnapped, etc.?

The more I read about this case, the more I am convinced the mother may have had some inside knowledge she did not share with the police. I personally find some of the details about the night in question to be a bit strange, to say the least.

According to an article I read from The Gallup Herald, during the night of the kidnapping, Penny returned home around midnight from a bar and relieved the babysitter. Despite this late hour, the girls were still up, and Penny continued to allow them to stay up and play until three o'clock in the morning. After that, the girls went to bed. Anthonette slept in Penny's bed, but Penny never heard any knock at the door. She woke up at 7 AM to get the girls ready, and that is when she noticed Anthonette was missing. For some reason Penny decided that Anthonette was out searching for a neighbour's missing dog, but became panicked when she called for her daughter and the latter did not answer her.

Penny was administered a polygraph test by the FBI and failed. Marty Esquibel, the detective interviewed for UM, was confident that Penny knew who took Anthonette.

The article also mentioned that it was speculated that Penny, and Anthonette's father, Larry Estrada, were involved in drugs. A police report noted that a neighbour stated it was not unusual for people to visit Penny's house at all hours of the night.

Based on this arguably limited information, I think that while Penny did not consent to the kidnapping, she probably knew who took her eldest daughter. If she lied to the police, it was probably because she feared reprisal for some illegal activity on her part.

The more I read about this case, the more I am convinced the mother may have had some inside knowledge she did not share with the police. I personally find some of the details about the night in question to be a bit strange, to say the least.

According to an article I read from The Gallup Herald, during the night of the kidnapping, Penny returned home around midnight from a bar and relieved the babysitter. Despite this late hour, the girls were still up, and Penny continued to allow them to stay up and play until three o'clock in the morning. After that, the girls went to bed. Anthonette slept in Penny's bed, but Penny never heard any knock at the door. She woke up at 7 AM to get the girls ready, and that is when she noticed Anthonette was missing. For some reason Penny decided that Anthonette was out searching for a neighbour's missing dog, but became panicked when she called for her daughter and the latter did not answer her.

Penny was administered a polygraph test by the FBI and failed. Marty Esquibel, the detective interviewed for UM, was confident that Penny knew who took Anthonette.

The article also mentioned that it was speculated that Penny, and Anthonette's father, Larry Estrada, were involved in drugs. A police report noted that a neighbour stated it was not unusual for people to visit Penny's house at all hours of the night.

Based on this arguably limited information, I think that while Penny did not consent to the kidnapping, she probably knew who took her eldest daughter. If she lied to the police, it was probably because she feared reprisal for some illegal activity on her part.

Wow! I haven't posted on here in ages, but had to respond to the above post.
That certainly sheds TONS of light on things. I had no idea that the mom took a polygraph and failed. I've always sensed that she was genuine, but I guess she was a bit deceptive. Yeah, I don't think she was directly involved in the kidnapping, but at least had some knowledge of what had happened. Maybe Anthonette was taken in retaliation/as a punishment for a drug deal gone wrong. Anyhow, the family sounds majorly messed up and dysfunctional.
I didn't know the mom (Penny) had died. Was this recent?
Thanks!

I didn't know the mom (Penny) had died. Was this recent?

According to the Find a Grave website, Penny died in April of 1999. The FBI tried to contact Penny on her deathbed, but they came too late. Whatever secrets Penny knew, she took with her to the grave. The FBI now considers this case closed, although the Gallup Police still consider the case to be open.

Since 1999?! :eek: Wow.
I wonder what she died of...? She must have still been pretty young.

ETA:
OK, I found her 'Find A Grave' page (if this is, indeed, the correct Penny), and she was 46 (three months shy of 47) when she passed.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Cayedito&GSbyrel=in&GSdyrel=in&GSob=n&GRid=13532079&
Maybe someone more savvy can locate an obituary.

Since 1999?! :eek: Wow.
I wonder what she died of...? She must have still been pretty young.

ETA:
OK, I found her 'Find A Grave' page (if this is, indeed, the correct Penny), and she was 46 (three months shy of 47) when she passed.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Cayedito&GSbyrel=in&GSdyrel=in&GSob=n&GRid=13532079&
Maybe someone more savvy can locate an obituary.


I tried a couple different very quick searches. I might try local newspaper archives tomorrow, if there are any online from 1999, and look for local funeral homes, which often post obits, but the chances of one being posted on a funeral home page back in 1999 are very slim. I also searched using the parent's names given on the findagrave site which didn't help. I searched for the specific names Penny Cayedito and Theresa Cayedito and came up with nothing.

I wonder if her last name in an obit would be Cayedito or if was different at the time of her death but the person who posted her findagrave page didn't know that. It doesn't show a photo of the headstone. The poster listed her burial site as "unknown" so there's not even a starting point of a cemetery to work with.

Wow icedberry's post is a real revelation. I'd love to know when she took a polygraph. It must have been after the segment aired yeah?
Is there a link to that article online? (or a related article with similar details?)

Wow icedberry's post is a real revelation. I'd love to know when she took a polygraph. It must have been after the segment aired yeah?
Is there a link to that article online? (or a related article with similar details?)

The link to the article I cited can be found here: https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=114554508586975

I believe Penny was given the polygraph before the UM segment. It was administered by the FBI. Since Anthonette went missing in 1986, and the show aired in 1992, it would have been sometime between there, probably at the early stages of the case.

The one thing that baffles me is the whole "uncle Bob" thing. I don't think she would've answered the door if she didn't think it was her uncle or someone else in her family. I think the person who took her might've not been someone in her family, but perhaps someone either of her parents knew or maybe it was some pedophile who watched/stalked the family and used the "uncle Bob" name to trick her and abduct her.

Her sister is running this fb page : https://www.facebook.com/anthonette.cayedito?sk=wall

I have a clear memory of an incident that happened to me when I was 6 years old at seaworld. I was dancing on the edge of a manatee tank, and fell in. I had to be rescued. For 20 plus years I've clearly remembered falling in, seeing the manatees next to me in the tank, and being pulled out. Last Christmas at a family get together, my relatives were talking about old times. I brought up the time I fell in the manatee tank. My mom and aunt said it was really a goldfish pond NOT a manatee tank. Boy was I crushed. And confused. I remembered the incident so clearly, or so I thought. My point is, the sister might really believe the incident of the night anthonette was taken, but that doesn't make it what really happened.
I don't think the diner incident is true. After four or five years in captivity, no way would the girl still be acting like that. She would have gotten used to the situation, maybe even have developed Stockholm syndrome. Plus, I doubt her kidnapper would take her out until he/she was sure she wouldn't jeopardize anything. Think of jaycee dugard. She was locked up for years before she was allowed out into the world. And by the time she was, she had gotten so used to the way things were, she didn't think of sending people signals to help her.

There is another theory local authorities thought of but could not quite prove as the stories gathered centered around the immediate family. This thread is quite interesting and it has some good points.

I'm not too sure how to say the whole thing but it mainly focuses on the mother as being the one directly involved. The neighborhood in which this family resided is considered very low income, within city limits, and on one of the main roads in the city. Approximately a week after this abduction occured, the mother acquired a brand new vehicle that was well beyond her income capabilities. If my child was abducted, having a new ride would be the last thing on my mind.

Also, the mother's behavior after this abduction wasn't 'normal' for someone who was grieving. I don't remember details but it was along the lines that she had a carefree attitude as if she knew her daughter was ok. A theory that wasn't really emphasized due to the limited resources of people to interview, was that the mother arranged for her daughter to be 'married' off (illegally of course) in exchange for money (and how she got her vehicle).

Taking that into mind, the mother and the other party conspired the kidnapping to make her disappearance more legit. Its a huge possibilty she made sure her daughter was awake enough to hear the knock on the door and knowing she would answer it had she believed it was her uncle. And while this event happened, the mother kept quiet in the room but didnt anticipate that Wendy (the sister) witnessed this situation (if she even did to begin with). I say this only because I knew Wendy as a child and she was no angel, not even close. She was in constant trouble, a well known liar, and a bully. There's a possibility that her behavior was the result of years of instilled fear from her mother in regards to 'witnessing' this kidnapping.

If the mother is involved, that would explain the daughter's reluctance to runaway and seek help, knowing that her mother is the one involved with her departure. The phone call a year later could also be a ploy to keep up with the story of kidnapping and keep the mother clear. If you take Lori Hacking's husband as an example, he was involved with the search for his own wife and in the end, he was the one who killed her. He even went on national television pleading for her return. If this happened recently, what makes you think it didn't go on back then when she was kidnapped?

Thank you so much for sharing this with us.

The more I read about this case, the more I am convinced the mother may have had some inside knowledge she did not share with the police. I personally find some of the details about the night in question to be a bit strange, to say the least.

According to an article I read from The Gallup Herald, during the night of the kidnapping, Penny returned home around midnight from a bar and relieved the babysitter. Despite this late hour, the girls were still up, and Penny continued to allow them to stay up and play until three o'clock in the morning. After that, the girls went to bed. Anthonette slept in Penny's bed, but Penny never heard any knock at the door. She woke up at 7 AM to get the girls ready, and that is when she noticed Anthonette was missing. For some reason Penny decided that Anthonette was out searching for a neighbour's missing dog, but became panicked when she called for her daughter and the latter did not answer her.

Penny was administered a polygraph test by the FBI and failed. Marty Esquibel, the detective interviewed for UM, was confident that Penny knew who took Anthonette.

The article also mentioned that it was speculated that Penny, and Anthonette's father, Larry Estrada, were involved in drugs. A police report noted that a neighbour stated it was not unusual for people to visit Penny's house at all hours of the night.

Based on this arguably limited information, I think that while Penny did not consent to the kidnapping, she probably knew who took her eldest daughter. If she lied to the police, it was probably because she feared reprisal for some illegal activity on her part.

Interesting....

According to the Find a Grave website, Penny died in April of 1999. The FBI tried to contact Penny on her deathbed, but they came too late. Whatever secrets Penny knew, she took with her to the grave. The FBI now considers this case closed, although the Gallup Police still consider the case to be open.

That's interesting to know that the FBI wanted to talk to Penny on her deathbed. That definitely sounds like she knew more than she was letting on. Why else would the FBI want to talk to her?

Here is my opinion on this case.

1. What kid would answer the door in the middle of the night? I would have been scared blankless to go to the door in the dark.

2. Wouldn't you recognize your uncles voice and know this person wasn't him?

3.There is more here than we are being told.

PS I spoke to the Det. in charge of this case not too long ago and he said the story in the comments on the UM video and the missing video I did for her was not right. Mom never made a deathbed confession of selling her for drugs. In fact she's not a suspect. sh's still on my radar a bit though.

Can I post a link to my video?

I believe the investigators know more than what they are letting on, or else they wouldn't publically say they believe she's dead. I just wonder how they've come to that conclusion.

EDIT: Does anyone else think it's weird that Penny says she let her children play at 3 in the morning, but then tried waking them up at 7 a.m. for bible school? 4 hours of sleep for children?!

I have a clear memory of an incident that happened to me when I was 6 years old at seaworld. I was dancing on the edge of a manatee tank, and fell in. I had to be rescued. For 20 plus years I've clearly remembered falling in, seeing the manatees next to me in the tank, and being pulled out. Last Christmas at a family get together, my relatives were talking about old times. I brought up the time I fell in the manatee tank. My mom and aunt said it was really a goldfish pond NOT a manatee tank. Boy was I crushed. And confused. I remembered the incident so clearly, or so I thought. My point is, the sister might really believe the incident of the night anthonette was taken, but that doesn't make it what really happened.

Excellent point.

I don't think the diner incident is true. After four or five years in captivity, no way would the girl still be acting like that. She would have gotten used to the situation, maybe even have developed Stockholm syndrome. Plus, I doubt her kidnapper would take her out until he/she was sure she wouldn't jeopardize anything. Think of jaycee dugard. She was locked up for years before she was allowed out into the world. And by the time she was, she had gotten so used to the way things were, she didn't think of sending people signals to help her.

I tend to feel the same way. That was either clearly not Anthonette or the waitress completely fabricated the story.

I feel like when an eyewitness describes something that probably--or definitely did not--happen regarding a kidnapping or the like, he or she tends to describe the criminal element as "dirty" or "unkempt". It's like we associate bad morality with literal physical uncleanliness or neatness.

While UM has shown us that eyewitness sightings are often unreliable, I know that I am particularly skeptical of witnesses who work in customer service, such as waitresses and convenience store clerks who claim they've seen a missing person frequenting their establishment.

As someone who worked in customer service for many years, I can attest that since you usually interact with dozens of people per day, it's very difficult to accurately remember a face. Even if someone made a memorable impression, it's quite easy to mis-remember them. For instance, I once witnessed my manager chase a customer out of our store because he was shoplifting. Several months later, this thief actually returned to the store and even though I'd seen him before and he had a very distinctive appearance, I didn't actually recognize him until my manager pointed him out.

Maybe it's just me, but if I served a suspicious-looking girl in a restaurant and then saw a similar-looking girl on a missing poster, there's NO WAY my memory of the girl in the restaurant would be vivid enough to put two and two together, which is why I've always been skeptical of this particular sighting. That said, I wonder if the napkin which read "HELP ME - CALL PEOPLE" was acturally turned into LE and possibly compared to Anthonette's handwriting. If this story was legit and the girl was not Anthonette, it's kind of an intriguing "mystery-within-an-unsolved-mystery" about what this girl's real backstory is.

I have been thinking about this all week, here are my thoughts:


1. Keep in mind even though its New Mexico, the real "MEXICO" is only a 20 hour drive. If she was brought across the border, even if she escaped she would be in a totally different world and living a totally different life.

2. If her parents were involved in drugs, sometimes people who buy / sell drugs use Code Words. The code word could of been uncle joe, and that is why she opened the door.

3. I don't believe the phone company could not of traced the call, I think it was total bs on the part of the phone company. In that era if you called long distance you were charged extra. There had of been a record of the time the call was made, where it orginated from and who the phone line was leased too. There was / is a billing record somewhere!!!

4. I have mixed feelings about Penny showing up with a Brand New Vehincle shortly , after this happened. Though its possible, she sold her child into traffking. It is also possible she felt like she needed a better vehincle to find her child!!!

5. I do believe there is a possibility she is still alive, but the reality is in the rural areas of New Mexico, and Colorado there are so many damn places you can bury a body its not even funny. I know this because I have a friend in Angel Fire New Mexico, and Family in Colorado.

The case just shatters my heart, she had two good chances of escaping and failed. It did not have to be this way.











I grew up watching Unsolved Mysteries and was really pleased to stumble upon this message board. I have ordered a number of dvds from Crystal Dawn and as I continue watching them I hope to discuss some of the more interesting cases. The first case which comes to mind is that of Anthonette Cayedito.

Summary: Anthonette was 9 years old when, in the middle of the night, she disappeared from her home in New Mexico. A little over a year later, 911 received a call from her saying her name and stating that she was in Alberquerque but the call was cut short by a man screaming, “Who told you you could use the phone?. The call was untraceable but at least we know that Anthonette was alive at that time and not murdered immediately.

Another unsubstantiated (yet likely) sighting was a few years later when a girl, 14-15 years old at the time, was spotted in a diner with an unkempt couple. The little girl kept dropping her silverware on the floor and when the waitress leaned down to pick it up, the girl would squeeze her arm. After this couple left, the waitress found a note hidden under the girl’s plate saying, “Help me! Call police!”

Also, late in the episode Anthonette’s mother is seen consulting with a Native American psychic who tells her that Anthonette is still alive, being held against her will by threats of violence and has a child. She is somewhere in the Southwest far from any town or city. The police were astonished to hear this as it matches their theories about what has happened to her.

My thoughts:

1. This was an inside job by an acquaintance of the family, not somebody they knew well but somebody whom they had perhaps met once or who had seen them. An acquaintance of a member of their extended family or of a neighbor. Also, I think they did not specifically target Anthonette but were going to grab whichever little girl opened the door, had one of her sisters opened it, they would have grabbed her. I would be curious to hear what the police think about this idea, if they feel she was specifically targeted or... for example, I don’t know what would have happened had her mother answered the door. Her family is adamant that Anthonette would not have opened the door had the kidnappers not said, “It’s your Uncle Joe”. Thus, her family was targeted by somebody who had direct knowledge of, at least, their extended family.

2. I was surprised by the fact that it said it was two men who kidnapped her and not one. As there were at least two people involved in the kidnapping, this doubles the chance that one of them would brag or boast of his deed yet this has not happened in this case. After her kidnapping, nothing- no leads, no tips, nada- for close to a year before her 911 call.

Also, on another website where Anthonette is profiled, they claim that one of the men is black and another Hispanic. I wonder how they knew this or if this is accurate information as it is not mentioned on the show and on the show her sister clearly says that she did not get a look at the men who grabbed her.

3. Even if the Nevada diner sighting was not, in fact, Anthonette, we know that she was alive for at least one year after she was kidnapped. My heart goes out to that poor, poor girl and her family. Why keep a 10 year old alive and captive for at least a year? And under what circumstances was she being kept if she could at least grab a phone somehow and make a call?

4. Other websites claim that police now believe she is dead as it is 20 years since her disappearance and there have been no sightings or even recent tips. I wonder what happened to this poor little girl and why the police now have changed their opinion- as of her UM profiling, police believed she was still alive and being held against her will.

5. It is my personal feeling that the police believe she is being held as a slave or house-girl for somebody- while it was not spelled out per se, the police on the show said that they were surprised when the psychics vision (still alive, with child) was in-line with their suspicions. I think that this is at what they were hinting.

I have found myself thinking more and more about this case since I first viewed it on the UM Favorites Vol. 2 as Anthonette and I are almost exactly the same age. I think of all the experiences I have had since I was 9 when Anthonette disappeared. My thoughts and prayers go out to her family and I pray that she is either at peace or can soon escape from her captors. However, the sheer amount of time which has passed with no news from her as well as the fact that she would now be almost 30 years old does not make me optimistic as to her wellbeing.

Any thoughts, ideas, impressions?

3. I don't believe the phone company could not of traced the call, I think it was total bs on the part of the phone company. In that era if you called long distance you were charged extra. There had of been a record of the time the call was made, where it orginated from and who the phone line was leased too. There was / is a billing record somewhere!!!


I think technology in the 80's to instantly trace phone calls was epically bad. When I read the book about the Cindy James case, I was very surprised to learn that even tapping a phone, a call could only be fully traced if the caller stayed on the line for about a minute to a minute and a half. That seems ludicrous by today's standards but this is what police had to deal with in the 80's. It was just a different time. Shorter calls could be traced to a particular district but no exact location.

I think technology in the 80's to instantly trace phone calls was epically bad. When I read the book about the Cindy James case, I was very surprised to learn that even tapping a phone, a call could only be fully traced if the caller stayed on the line for about a minute to a minute and a half. That seems ludicrous by today's standards but this is what police had to deal with in the 80's. It was just a different time. Shorter calls could be traced to a particular district but no exact location.

Even older technology required 15 minutes. Someone would have to be having a major phone soliloquy before it could be traced, it seems.

I don't believe for one minute that the mother didn't hear a knock on the door in the middle of the night! If she wasn't involved in the abduction why would she have let the kids answer the door and not her? There's no way in hell my mom would have let me answer the door when I was that age much less at 3 o'clock in the morning, something is definitely not right here. I think Penny sold her daughter to a human trafficking ring, and they hung onto her until she was old enough to benefit them!

I don't believe for one minute that the mother didn't hear a knock on the door in the middle of the night! If she wasn't involved in the abduction why would she have let the kids answer the door and not her? There's no way in hell my mom would have let me answer the door when I was that age much less at 3 o'clock in the morning, something is definitely not right here. I think Penny sold her daughter to a human trafficking ring, and they hung onto her until she was old enough to benefit them!

I believe the authorities held the same suspicions, because they wanted to talk to Penny on her deathbed. Something has always bothered me about the mother in this case...

This was the first time I saw this case.

The whole case is really suspicious and leaves more questions than answers. Something was really fishy here.

I know the mom was in on this one way or another. She failed a lie detector test and she did so many dumb things here that it is impossible to believe she wasn't involved. Her parenting was absolutely awful. She allowed her kids to stay up until 3 a.m. which no caring parent would come close to doing, she or her husband were involved with drugs and having people come into the house around the clock. She didn't question her daughter going to look for dogs before 7 a.m. even though it would have been dark out. She also was at the bar from what I can tell.

Anytime I try to run the scenario through my head, the #1 problem is: How did the kidnappers know that the kids would answer the door? The odds on it were not very good no matter what. You would somehow have to know that the kids would answer the door because common sense says they wouldn't.

The sister is also highly questionable in this case. This whole thing happened way before the mother woke up since they all woke up together and couldn't find Anthonette. What did the sister do between the kidnapping and when mom woke up? Any child would immediately run to their parents if someone was kidnapped. Where was the sister and what was she doing? Why was the mother not woken up? The sister would have at the minimum cried and screamed and from what we know, it seems she just went back to bed like nothing happened...

Presumably, the sister then lied to police and her family for years about what happened. How is that possible? I can't believe it. No kid could do that.

This is going to sound crazy but it feels like the mother and the sister were in on it. I cannot run this scenario through my head in any way and believe it. No one did any of the obvious things or even reacted naturally. From all of this, the mother slept through knocking, screaming and crying, then the little sister witnessed all of this and just decided to go back to bed. Then she lied about it for years after. I don't think this is even the real story.

I really don't even think the actual kidnapping happened. There's just no way. I think the mother did something and coached the little sister on it. I don't know what but I wouldn't be surprised if it involved them selling drugs.

The Phone Call
I'm not questioning that it wasn't her but perhaps if another person could confirm it was indeed her, it would be better.

I don't buy that the phone call couldn't be traced. It's the police! There must have been something more they could have done. They knew where she was and with wanted posters and stuff, someone must have seen something if she was in Albuquerque. Especially with her having a mole. This would have been really big news and there surely would have been some serious searching for her, but there wasn't. The police didn't do all they could have here.



The Las Vegas Diner Sighting
I'd like to know more details on the Las Vegas diner sighting. We don't know if it was her and we'd have no way of knowing. No one had seen her for years and it could have been someone completely different, especially since this was in a different state. The whole thing could have even been a joke or some misunderstanding. If she was the girl at the diner, I can't see how she couldn't escape. She could write, she could talk and she was 13 to 14 at that time. All she had to do was mouth the words "help" or write down a name, initials or anything and she would have had a better chance of escaping. There's a million ways she could have escaped in the diner and any way you think of it, it would have worked. I cannot buy that a 14 year old girl was that stupid.

I don't buy any of this story and the FBI didn't seem to either. There is no way this all could have happened. There are logic holes everywhere and it is too bad that the FBI came to the mom's deathbed too late.

Wow! Reading these posts makes me feel like I am in police school, with all the soon-to-be cops weighing out the scenarios! Everyone here is so clever, I love it!!!!!!!

It's been a WHILE since I have seen this segment, but I do believe it was one of the first ever segments I saw when I was about 9 or 10. I'll give my thoughts, but I haven't seen the segment in at least three years, so I may not have all the details straight!

Okay, the issue of the mom not hearing the knock at the door. Well, let's face it kids, she just got home from the bar. She was probably pretty drunk, probably came home and had a few more drinks, and passed out. Sadly, children who have parents who are drug or alcohol abusers often take on adult roles, like doing laundry, preparing meals, etc. So it might have been quite normal for the child to answer the door at any time, including the middle of the night, not realizing the potential danger. However, my belief is that there is more going on with this than we know.

Next, the sister's sudden epiphany. As children, we all want to please. We want to give the right answer, we want to do good, and we are easily influenced to do so. In my opinion, the sister's memory could be fabricated or pushed upon her, or maybe she actually believes something that never in fact happened. Let's not forget the case of Clarence Elkins, who went to jail for raping his niece and killing her grandmother, all because the child said "It was uncle Clarence" and he was innocent but spent years in jail. When you are 6 years old, how many adults are you exposed to? You might only have one family member or family friend who is a blone guy, for example, so if a blond guy attacks you, you think it's him because they look alike, he's the only blond man you've ever seen! Or maybe you are thinking "the person reminds me of" but you are a child (children sometimes can't articulate this sort of thing). My point it, it's easy for children to get confused (like someone earlier mentioned about the goldfish pond in their own childhood).

Next, the sighting. I don't believe it. I believe it was probably some kid getting kicks by pissing off the waitress. I don't think the sighting was credible (imo).

I'm really not sure what to believe, but as some of you have pointed out, why were the FBI wanting to talk to mama on her deathbed?? Something is UP with that!

I'm not sure if this is relevant but here's a link to an interesting case about a ten year old English girl who was kidnapped but found alive 24 days later hidden under a bed in a house owned by the uncle of her mothers boyfriend, apparently her mother thought they could make money by faking a kidnapping and then finding the child alive, this was the biggest missing person search for thirty years her mother is now in prison and the child is in care. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon_Mathews

Does anyone know why the police think she's dead? It sounds to me like they know more then they are saying...

Does anyone know why the police think she's dead? It sounds to me like they know more then they are saying...

I think they do know more than they are saying too. It's not like it's just because of the passage of time, because other young women/children have been found alive years after they disappeared.

I think Anthonette's mother had something to do with her disappearance. I think she either sold her for drug money or maybe they were being negligent one night and Anthonette did something to cause herself to die by accident and they covered it up. I don't believe the "Uncle Joe" story of coming to the door in the middle of the night (unless it would tie into him/them being the people that her mom sold her too, but that would be risking Anthonette not answering the door, so I doubt that story is true).

prob. bc most such occurances are linked to family members,spec. sometimes the mother.
I also think she knew more,but perhaps they would have questioned her anyway,regardless.

I feel like when an eyewitness describes something that probably--or definitely did not--happen regarding a kidnapping or the like, he or she tends to describe the criminal element as "dirty" or "unkempt". It's like we associate bad morality with literal physical uncleanliness or neatness.


Would that be anything like crazy people look when they crazy? :D

Here's a brand new age progression photo of Anthonette Cayedito:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1001528_633817989969203_1274788278_n.jpg

I found an interesting blog about Anthonette's disappearance and learned some information I didn't know before. Apparently, Penny had a habit of staying out late and drinking and she got home late and allowed the girls to be up (a baby-sitter had been with them up til that point). So that's why the girls would have been awake at 3:30 if the Uncle Joe story is indeed true.

http://byronwolf.hubpages.com/hub/missing-disappeared-unsolved-mysteries-anthonette-cayedito


According to a neighbor, visitors were known to show up at all hours of the night. This would explain why Anthonette would indeed go to the door and calmly ask who it was according to the sister's account.

I found an interesting blog about Anthonette's disappearance and learned some information I didn't know before. Apparently, Penny had a habit of staying out late and drinking and she got home late and allowed the girls to be up (a baby-sitter had been with them up til that point). So that's why the girls would have been awake at 3:30 if the Uncle Joe story is indeed true.

http://byronwolf.hubpages.com/hub/missing-disappeared-unsolved-mysteries-anthonette-cayedito


According to a neighbor, visitors were known to show up at all hours of the night. This would explain why Anthonette would indeed go to the door and calmly ask who it was according to the sister's account.

Good find! Interesting to know that Penny failed a lie detector test. That tends to lend more credibility to the "she knew more than she was saying" theory that's been brought up in this thread. And that map that shows the distance from the kidnapping, the calls, and the diner makes me think that the girl in the diner was not Anthonette but someone who resembled her.

I found an interesting blog about Anthonette's disappearance and learned some information I didn't know before. Apparently, Penny had a habit of staying out late and drinking and she got home late and allowed the girls to be up (a baby-sitter had been with them up til that point). So that's why the girls would have been awake at 3:30 if the Uncle Joe story is indeed true.

http://byronwolf.hubpages.com/hub/missing-disappeared-unsolved-mysteries-anthonette-cayedito


According to a neighbor, visitors were known to show up at all hours of the night. This would explain why Anthonette would indeed go to the door and calmly ask who it was according to the sister's account.

That's actually an old link from last year. I remember talking here about Penny's late night bar trips, including the night of the kidnapping. It might have been in another thread. I'm surprised this is the first you heard of this.

I recently watched this case again. I honestly really believe the mother was involved in some way. She either helped stage the kidnapping or she made it up to cover something up



Either way, the mother was a terrible parent. Letting her kids stay up at 3 am and allowing them to answer the door at night. Really reflects poorly on her

I recently watched this case again. I honestly really believe the mother was involved in some way. She either helped stage the kidnapping or she made it up to cover something up



Either way, the mother was a terrible parent. Letting her kids stay up at 3 am and allowing them to answer the door at night. Really reflects poorly on her

While this is not the only case i've heard of of a child going missing after a parent went to bed , and sertainly is not the brightest thing too do to leave kids up unatended . I still would not feel right judging this woman. Exspecailly sense the neighbors who said she frequented bars, lets kids stay up late and let people come to the house all hours of the night were not conserned enough to call child protective services on the mother. Make's me wonder if they were exsagerating.

As for the waitress sightning. If she did not recognize the girl as Annette from her picutre or aged progrssed picture , how was this sighting connected to Annette?

In some low income communities most people just stay out of other peoples business. So the neighbors not calling CPS doesn't really mean anything to me other then they might have thought it wasn't there place to call.

I'm really half and half on this. A part of me thinks that oh hell yeah the mother absolutely knows what happened to her daughter because she sold her to someone.

The other part of me thinks it was more or less a crime of opportunity, someone who was in the neighborhood/close to the family or someone who frequent the bar the mother went too and knew that the children were alone and then took a chance one night.

I just, you know get this feeling that the mother wasn't at home when it occurred and returned home to find her daughter missing. She could have easily sent the babysitter home and went back out. Honestly I don't feel bad for the mother at all, she may have in her own way loved her children but her actions kinda paint a picture of neglect and drug and alcohol problems.

That blog someone created said the kids were alloud to stay up till 3 am. On Unsolved Mysteries, the kids were asleep and the knock on the door woke them up. And I still would like ot know how the waitresses story was connected Annette?

Either it was Anthonette or it wasn't in the diner. If Anthonette's mother sold her it could have been her, the alternative is that it was someone else who either needed help or playing a prank and the waitress thought it was her.

Either it was Anthonette or it wasn't in the diner. If Anthonette's mother sold her it could have been her, the alternative is that it was someone else who either needed help or playing a prank and the waitress thought it was her.

But how was this incodent connected with Annthonette Cayedito ? The reason it is told on only with the Annthonette Cayedito case is because it was belive to be possibly connected to her. What connected it to her? The waitres never saw pictures of her. The cops get tons of weird reports a day. Loads of kids are missing. What was the connection? There must be a reason it was thought it might be her. A reason it came to their atention and was connected to her case.

Let me see if I can research something and I will get back to you.


ETA: Does anyone know how long it was between the time she went missing and the time the sighting by the waitress was? I've read a few weeks up to a few years.

But how was this incodent connected with Annthonette Cayedito ? The reason it is told on only with the Annthonette Cayedito case is because it was belive to be possibly connected to her. What connected it to her? The waitres never saw pictures of her. The cops get tons of weird reports a day. Loads of kids are missing. What was the connection? There must be a reason it was thought it might be her. A reason it came to their atention and was connected to her case.

The child from the diner left a note that said, "Please help me. Call the police." Obviously, the waitress reported the note to the police and in an attempt to find out who the girl could have been they came across Anthonette. Either the police linked it to Anthonette based on the waitress's description or the waitress chose Anthonette after being presented with pictures of missing girls. Either way, they put this sighting together with this case. Unfortunately, I think the fact that Gallup, NM (where Anthonette disappeared) and Carson City, NV (site of the sighting) are nearly 900 miles apart means that the girl seen in the diner was not Anthonette.

Let me see if I can research something and I will get back to you.


ETA: Does anyone know how long it was between the time she went missing and the time the sighting by the waitress was? I've read a few weeks up to a few years.

According to the official UM website it was about 5 years between the disappearance and the sighting. The 911 call with the girl claiming to be Anthonette came about 1 year after her disappearance and the sighting came 4 years after the phone call. The sighting also came very shortly after the FBI created and released 2 age progression photos of Anthonette's possible current appearance.

I'd be interested to know the race of the waitress. Cross racial identification on top of basing it off an age progression could make a strong case for misidentification.

But if that girl wasn't Anthonette... Who was it and did she ever get the help she needed.

I'd be interested to know the race of the waitress. Cross racial identification on top of basing it off an age progression could make a strong case for misidentification.

But if that girl wasn't Anthonette... Who was it and did she ever get the help she needed.

IIRC, in the segment the waitress was white.

IIRC, in the segment the waitress was white.

And Anthonette was Native. (Well, biracial, but appears Native.) So, I do wonder if cross racial identification issues played into her thinking it was Anthonette. Or, seeing the message and thinking of local missing kids and came up with Anthonette.

I am not implying any malice on the part of the waitress.

And Anthonette was Native. (Well, biracial, but appears Native.) So, I do wonder if cross racial identification issues played into her thinking it was Anthonette. Or, seeing the message and thinking of local missing kids and came up with Anthonette.

I am not implying any malice on the part of the waitress.

I can't speak to the cross racial ID thoughts, but I don't think the waitress could have been familiar with Anthonette before the sighting. I have to believe that police either jumped to the conclusion that the waitress saw Anthonette based on a description or the waitress ID'd Anthonette from a photo after the sighting. The sighting happened close to 900 miles from where Anthonette disappeared. It is next to impossible that the waitress was actually familiar with Anthonette's disappearance.

I can't speak to the cross racial ID thoughts, but I don't think the waitress could have been familiar with Anthonette before the sighting. I have to believe that police either jumped to the conclusion that the waitress saw Anthonette based on a description or the waitress ID'd Anthonette from a photo after the sighting. The sighting happened close to 900 miles from where Anthonette disappeared. It is next to impossible that the waitress was actually familiar with Anthonette's disappearance.

Yeah I've never even noticed the distance it was from where Anthonette was last seen to the restaurant sighting, but that makes it more implausible, IMO. Although according to the UM segment, the FBI released age progressed photos of Anthonette throughout the southwest, which is when the restaurant sighting was reported. The waitress probably figured since the girl she saw had a resemblance to Anthonette and since she was acting very strange she should report it. If it wasn't Anthonette I would still love to know who that girl was and if she was really in trouble.

If it wasn't Anthonette I would still love to know who that girl was and if she was really in trouble.

Me too. That story has always bothered me.

I can't figure out if I think it's very legitimate or a little made up. Historically, I've leaned toward it being true (regardless of the very real possibility that this would be a good opportunity for someone to inject him- or herself into an investigation) because of the "dropping utensils" detail. That's so specific--and not something one would seem to readily think of--that I don't see any reason at present NOT to believe it.

Me too. That story has always bothered me.

I can't figure out if I think it's very legitimate or a little made up. Historically, I've leaned toward it being true (regardless of the very real possibility that this would be a good opportunity for someone to inject him- or herself into an investigation) because of the "dropping utensils" detail. That's so specific--and not something one would seem to readily think of--that I don't see any reason at present NOT to believe it.

Yep, I definitely think the waitress saw something...but was it a prank or real is what I'd love to know. I also think the detail about the girl grabbing her arm in squeezing doesn't sound like something made up. And didn't the girl the waitress saw leave a note to call police or get help?

Yep, I definitely think the waitress saw something...but was it a prank or real is what I'd love to know. I also think the detail about the girl grabbing her arm in squeezing doesn't sound like something made up. And didn't the girl the waitress saw leave a note to call police or get help?

Yep, she said she found a note underneath the girl's plate after they had left that read "Help me, call police".

Yep, she said she found a note underneath the girl's plate after they had left that read "Help me, call police".

There should be a whole other thread dedicated to this mysterious girl in the restaurant, :lol: .

I would also like to know who the young girl was. I wonder if the waitress was ever shown more photographs of missing girls?

I feel like when an eyewitness describes something that probably--or definitely did not--happen regarding a kidnapping or the like, he or she tends to describe the criminal element as "dirty" or "unkempt". It's like we associate bad morality with literal physical uncleanliness or neatness.

I watched this segment the other day after not having watched it in at least a year. Is it just me, or did the "unkempt" couple in the re-enactment really not look that unkempt? The guy looked somewhat sloppy, but the woman appeared to be dressed very typically (perhaps even stereotypically) for the late 80s and early 90s.

I have older girl cousins who are in their thirties and and early forties now, but were teenagers in the early 90s. They all rocked the baggy sweater and big curly hair with scrunchie that the "unkempt" woman in the re-enactment had. That look was very much in style until about the mid-90s.

You gotta go with the facts on this case, the phone call which could have led to hightened security around Anthonette. And then the "Help Me" letter. Those are both attempts of escape. Kidnapping for "keeps" was way more common back then, it was easier to pull off. I believe she more than likely was held captive long enough to come to grips with it and was so far removed from her family the attempts to escape became more impossible in theory. There may have even been a murder some time after all of this somewhere so far removed from New Mexico that they couldn't trace the body back to New Mexico nor Anthonette. Forensic and investigative work wasn't exactly "elite" in the mid to late 80's.

You gotta go with the facts on this case, the phone call which could have led to hightened security around Anthonette. And then the "Help Me" letter. Those are both attempts of escape. Kidnapping for "keeps" was way more common back then, it was easier to pull off. I believe she more than likely was held captive long enough to come to grips with it and was so far removed from her family the attempts to escape became more impossible in theory. There may have even been a murder some time after all of this somewhere so far removed from New Mexico that they couldn't trace the body back to New Mexico nor Anthonette. Forensic and investigative work wasn't exactly "elite" in the mid to late 80's.

The belief of the FBI, as well as the medicine women, is that while she may not necessarily be directly responsible for Anthonette's disappearance, her mother knows more then she is letting onto. The FBI hasn't elaborated on this, but they believe Anthonette is now dead and consider the case closed.

As to the phone call, It's possible, but she would of had to of known the Gallup police station number. If she picked up and just dialed 911, the call would have gone into the Albuquerque police department. I think there's a good possibility the call was a fake done to distract the police to where Anthonette might actually be.

As to the phone call, It's possible, but she would of had to of known the Gallup police station number. If she picked up and just dialed 911, the call would have gone into the Albuquerque police department. I think there's a good possibility the call was a fake done to distract the police to where Anthonette might actually be.

I brought up a similar point earlier in the thread. There's no way, if the girl was indeed Anthonette, would have been able to know the PD phone number. It just seems unlikely that she would have called the actual station number as opposed to 911.

I know this is a massive stretch and I may get flamed for this--but does anyone think it's possible that Penny Cayedito or someone close to her may have staged the phone call?

I know this is a massive stretch and I may get flamed for this--but does anyone think it's possible that Penny Cayedito or someone close to her may have staged the phone call?

I don't think you'll get flamed, certainly not from me, as it is a legit question. Really, no one knows who made the phone call, it could have came from anywhere or anyone. It could have Anthonette, it could have been a prank, it could have been her abductor, and it could have been anyone wanting to throw a wrench in the case for whatever reason. I always like to hope for the best, as we all do, but who knows!

I know this is a massive stretch and I may get flamed for this--but does anyone think it's possible that Penny Cayedito or someone close to her may have staged the phone call?

This crossed has crossed my mind as well but I cannot imagine why except unless, of course, she was involved in her daughters disappearance and wanted to throw the investigation off.

Would a 911 operator be able to quickly (quickly, like you are being held against your will and could be found out any minute) transfer your call to any police station of your choosing?

IF the caller was indeed Anthonette, couldn't she have asked the operator to connect her with the correct PD?

I am curious as to whether the phone call heard on UM was ever edited. Did the police operator ask any other questions prior to the girl identifying herself as Anthonette? It always seemed a bit odd to me that the little girl immediately identified herself as Anthonette Cayedito. That is because a police dispatcher will not ask for one's name as the first question, but "What is your emergency?" From what I recall from one of my linguistics courses concerning hoax 911 calls, truthful people will cooperate by answering the question asked, while untruthful people will avoid the question by following their own script.

It would make sense if the girl replied that she needed help, and then the dispatcher asked for her name, or if the girl answered, "My name is Anthonette Cayedito and I need help." But just stating the name seems a bit "off". It would make more sense if the call had been edited for television though.

IF the caller was indeed Anthonette, couldn't she have asked the operator to connect her with the correct PD?

Anthonette would have been 8 years old when that call was placed. I highly doubt an 8 year old is going to worry about an operator connecting her with the correct PD. Heck, at that age, she might not even have known that every city has a PD.

A very young child who is afraid or in a state of panic is going to cry for help to anyone she thinks will listen and not worry about the logistics.

*shrug* long before I was 9 (the age Anthonette was when she disappeared) my school and town had lots of children's activities and information sessions with the local PD. Officer Friendly, fingerprinting kids, stranger danger, etc.

I think it depends on the kid and the hometown. (And yes, I'm older than Anthonette, though not by much)

Just a suggestion about how the call could have been her. It was probably a hoax though.

My thoughts on this one (this will be pretty long & may be a bit scattered/haphazard):

- Phone call to the police where seemingly the missing girl says her name like 5 times then says she's in Albuquerque (Gallup PD seems to be who got the call, a town 2 hrs west of Albuquerque)

- Not sure on the phone call, would need to know more details to make any educated assumptions. She says she's in Albuquerque, but Gallup PD gets the call. Is a 911 dispatcher really gonna relay the call back to the girl's hometown? That tells me that either the call was a hoax or the girl thinks she's in Albuquerque for some reason when she's still in her hometown. The fact that the police don't seem too interested in the call & that seemingly nobody else but the mother say that the voice is Anthonette's leads me to think the call is more than likely a hoax (maybe a mother's intuition is that good, I dunno, but when interviewed she seemed pretty defiant in her belief that the voice was Anthonette's and I haven't heard of anyone else in the family backing that claim)


- 4 years after she went missing, a waitress in Nevada says she waited on a trio of people: a pair of unkempt people and a 14-15 year old girl who looked like Anthonette. Girl knocked silverware off the table & grabbed the waitress' hand after she put the silverware back on the table. What restaurant has a 1 fork per person rule? What waitress would take a utensil that was on the ground & put it back on the table for use? Wouldn't it be customary at even the grimiest of diners to take the dirty utensil away & give them a new, clean one?

- Don't think Anthonette was the girl at the diner. Not sure the diner story is even real. Multiple things about it seem off to me: waitress giving back dirty silverware & kidnappers not only allowing their victim out in public but allowing her to write on a napkin unsupervised? Not buying it as a kidnapping. Almost certainly either made up/misremembered event by the waitress or a case of a child being abused by her parents (outside chance of this being a prank/hoax, but I don't see teenage girls as being too likely to take part in such a prank). Also, is it commonplace for abductors to take their victim to to the optometrist for glasses?


- 5 years after she's missing, one of the sisters (who was 5 at the time of the event) says she saw Anthonette answer the door (reportedly at 3am) and get abducted by a pair of men (to the point where she could see them put her in a brown van). Did the abductors close the door behind them? Did the little sister close the door afterward & just go back to bed? Either way, would a 5 year old really not wake their mom up afterward? Is it normal for neighbors to see people coming & going from the house at that time? Is it normal for the kids to answer the door for the 3am round of visitors? Is the mom really that heavy of a sleeper or is she more passed out than asleep?

- Even if the little sister were afraid of telling her mom (for whatever reason), she would certainly not be good enough at pretending to not know that Anthonette was missing the next morning. Seriously, have you seen kids' acting? It's atrocious & impossible to not see & know that something is up. Yeh, this is bottom tier anecdotal evidence, but the next time you see a 5 year old with no coaching that's good at acting will be the first time it's ever happened (hell, even with coaching, a majority of 5 year olds are still pathetic at such acting)

- Reported abductor says his name is Uncle Joe. Some people say something to the effect of "everyone has an Uncle Joe, so it's probably coincidental that she actually had one." Those people need to shutup. Sorry, no abductor is just gonna knock & hazard a guess at a name that will get them in. Not only is "Uncle Joe" not as common as some of you seem to think it is, the overwhelming majority of the US population would have no uncle named Joe (or Joseph). An abductor would just assume break into the house & have the element of surprise than knock at the door at 3am & hope the resident knows an Uncle Joe. If it was an abduction, then it the perp most certainly knew the family


- Then some junk about a medicine woman. If you put any stock in this, then I've got a bridge to sell you




- The little sister's story is full of gaping holes large enough to drive a brown van through. A pair of 5 & 9 year old girls are the ones that answer the door at 3am? The abductors (or the 5 year old) take the time to lose the door behind them after Anthonette is taken? The 5 year old doesn't tell a soul about this for 5 years? The next morning, the 5 year old just acts like the sister missing is not at all related to what she saw the night before? Is this 5 year old the greatest child actor of all time?

- Not sure what to make of that story, all I know is that it didn't happen the way she says it did. My first inclination is to assume the 5 year old had dreams similar to the story she espoused after her older sister went missing. She probably had similar dreams pretty frequently eventually she just believed that is what happened? That's still pretty flimsy. Maybe she was told to give this story? I dunno, but what I do know is there's zero chance the events of that night happened as portrayed in her story. She was scared to tell her mom what happened? Ok, but at first the mom didn't know Anthonette was missing. She was scared to simply say, oh Uncle Joe (or someone claiming to be Uncle Joe) came by & grabbed her?




- This whole story is just weird. A likely hoaxed phone call & the fishy story of the sister means I have to keep open the idea that the mom is involved somehow. Did a little googling on the mother & indeed, I saw that she reportedly failed a lie detector test, was known to be a bit of a partier/drinker & the neighbors would not have thought it weird for people to be coming & going at that time of night. There were also some reports of her mother being involved in drugs, but those didn't seem to be as validated as the other reports, so not putting much stock into it


All told, I'm pretty positive that the mother knew what happened to her daughter and that she is likely the reason behind Anthonette's disappearance

Is there any credible assessments of this case that come anywhere close to stating they are positive Penny is the reason this happened? Where or should I say how did an above poster come to the dubious conclusion that the Fbi believes penny is involved?

I am not totally dismissing the possibility, but to indict a deceased mother for the tragic disappearance of her daughter using words like "positive" is very distasteful and somewhat offensive.

With the Ramseys many investigators and others have stated and written books about their suspicions and many believe the Ramseys to be guilty, most notably Dr Cyril wecht. Perhaps experienced investigators can come to such conclusions and provide validity to us opinionated armchairs. In the absence of a creditable basis for such an inflammatory position, I ask only to consider how crushing it would be to lose a child in this tragic way and then be scrutinised and blamed by random posters on a message

Maybe Judith Himes made the phone call from Omaha. (Sorry, couldn't resist)

Maybe Judith Himes made the phone call from Omaha. (Sorry, couldn't resist)

OMG! That is CLASSIC!!!! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!:lol:

Is there any credible assessments of this case that come anywhere close to stating they are positive Penny is the reason this happened? Where or should I say how did an above poster come to the dubious conclusion that the Fbi believes penny is involved?

I am not totally dismissing the possibility, but to indict a deceased mother for the tragic disappearance of her daughter using words like "positive" is very distasteful and somewhat offensive.

With the Ramseys many investigators and others have stated and written books about their suspicions and many believe the Ramseys to be guilty, most notably Dr Cyril wecht. Perhaps experienced investigators can come to such conclusions and provide validity to us opinionated armchairs. In the absence of a creditable basis for such an inflammatory position, I ask only to consider how crushing it would be to lose a child in this tragic way and then be scrutinised and blamed business



there is an article that said she failed a lie detector test and the police were interested in talking to her on her deathbed. She was also known for having people over late at night. Also, if her kids were really up at 3 am and opened the door by herself then she is a pretty terrible parent

Is there any credible assessments of this case that come anywhere close to stating they are positive Penny is the reason this happened? Where or should I say how did an above poster come to the dubious conclusion that the Fbi believes penny is involved?

I am not totally dismissing the possibility, but to indict a deceased mother for the tragic disappearance of her daughter using words like "positive" is very distasteful and somewhat offensive.

With the Ramseys many investigators and others have stated and written books about their suspicions and many believe the Ramseys to be guilty, most notably Dr Cyril wecht. Perhaps experienced investigators can come to such conclusions and provide validity to us opinionated armchairs. In the absence of a creditable basis for such an inflammatory position, I ask only to consider how crushing it would be to lose a child in this tragic way and then be scrutinised and blamed business

https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=114554508586975

This is a link to a Gallup Herald article that elaborates on the FBI's interest in speaking to Penny Cayedito again, as well as segment interviewee Det. Marty Esquibel's belief that Penny knew who took Anthonette.

I don't think Penny Cayedito was responsible for her daughter's disappearance, but I think it is possible she could have known who was, and may not have appreciated the law enforcement pressure that was undoubtedly on her.

https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=114554508586975

This is a link to a Gallup Herald article that elaborates on the FBI's interest in speaking to Penny Cayedito again, as well as segment interviewee Det. Marty Esquibel's belief that Penny knew who took Anthonette.

I don't think Penny Cayedito was responsible for her daughter's disappearance, but I think it is possible she could have known who was, and may not have appreciated the law enforcement pressure that was undoubtedly on her.

This might already have been mentioned but if you scroll to the bottom, there are a few comments, some of which are from Anthonette's sister Wendy, which are linked from her Facebook account. She would be 32 today and she looks very much like her mother Penny.

https://www.facebook.com/wendy.montoyalawson

This might already have been mentioned but if you scroll to the bottom, there are a few comments, some of which are from Anthonette's sister Wendy, which are linked from her Facebook account. She would be 32 today and she looks very much like her mother Penny.

https://www.facebook.com/wendy.montoyalawson
I was just about to post this! Seems that she is angered by the portrayal of her parents in the article.

I was just about to post this! Seems that she is angered by the portrayal of her parents in the article.

I think I would probably be upset, too--even if I had an inkling that involvement was possible. I think few people deeply desire that their families' hardships be honked out all over various media and I can understand her reaction.

I'm not sure what LE knows, though, if anything. As I mentioned earlier, I don't think she was involved, but I do think it is possible she may have had an idea about who was.

No offense but her daughter not exactly an impartial judge

I think I would probably be upset, too--even if I had an inkling that involvement was possible. I think few people deeply desire that their families' hardships be honked out all over various media and I can understand her reaction.

Not only that, but she witnessed the abduction herself at the age 5. I imagine that sight would haunt a person for the rest of their life.

I feel awful for her.

Something I just thought of in regards to the 911 call.

I wonder if maybe Anthonette was actually being held in Gallop at the time of the call, but was forced by her abductors to call 911 and tell them she was in Albuquerque as a way to throw off the investigation. It should be common sense that the 911 operator is going to connect you to the closest police station, but not everyone is logical or smart lol.

Joe is such a common name, perhaps they just took a chance.

That is my thoughts too. Joe is a common name and one of those ones like 'Smith' and 'John' that kind of just comes in your head when you are making a fake name. it could just be a coincidence there actually was a uncle Joe

My thoughts on this one (this will be pretty long & may be a bit scattered/haphazard):

- Phone call to the police where seemingly the missing girl says her name like 5 times then says she's in Albuquerque (Gallup PD seems to be who got the call, a town 2 hrs west of Albuquerque)

- Not sure on the phone call, would need to know more details to make any educated assumptions. She says she's in Albuquerque, but Gallup PD gets the call. Is a 911 dispatcher really gonna relay the call back to the girl's hometown? That tells me that either the call was a hoax or the girl thinks she's in Albuquerque for some reason when she's still in her hometown. The fact that the police don't seem too interested in the call & that seemingly nobody else but the mother say that the voice is Anthonette's leads me to think the call is more than likely a hoax (maybe a mother's intuition is that good, I dunno, but when interviewed she seemed pretty defiant in her belief that the voice was Anthonette's and I haven't heard of anyone else in the family backing that claim)


- 4 years after she went missing, a waitress in Nevada says she waited on a trio of people: a pair of unkempt people and a 14-15 year old girl who looked like Anthonette. Girl knocked silverware off the table & grabbed the waitress' hand after she put the silverware back on the table. What restaurant has a 1 fork per person rule? What waitress would take a utensil that was on the ground & put it back on the table for use? Wouldn't it be customary at even the grimiest of diners to take the dirty utensil away & give them a new, clean one?

- Don't think Anthonette was the girl at the diner. Not sure the diner story is even real. Multiple things about it seem off to me: waitress giving back dirty silverware & kidnappers not only allowing their victim out in public but allowing her to write on a napkin unsupervised? Not buying it as a kidnapping. Almost certainly either made up/misremembered event by the waitress or a case of a child being abused by her parents (outside chance of this being a prank/hoax, but I don't see teenage girls as being too likely to take part in such a prank). Also, is it commonplace for abductors to take their victim to to the optometrist for glasses?


- 5 years after she's missing, one of the sisters (who was 5 at the time of the event) says she saw Anthonette answer the door (reportedly at 3am) and get abducted by a pair of men (to the point where she could see them put her in a brown van). Did the abductors close the door behind them? Did the little sister close the door afterward & just go back to bed? Either way, would a 5 year old really not wake their mom up afterward? Is it normal for neighbors to see people coming & going from the house at that time? Is it normal for the kids to answer the door for the 3am round of visitors? Is the mom really that heavy of a sleeper or is she more passed out than asleep?

- Even if the little sister were afraid of telling her mom (for whatever reason), she would certainly not be good enough at pretending to not know that Anthonette was missing the next morning. Seriously, have you seen kids' acting? It's atrocious & impossible to not see & know that something is up. Yeh, this is bottom tier anecdotal evidence, but the next time you see a 5 year old with no coaching that's good at acting will be the first time it's ever happened (hell, even with coaching, a majority of 5 year olds are still pathetic at such acting)

- Reported abductor says his name is Uncle Joe. Some people say something to the effect of "everyone has an Uncle Joe, so it's probably coincidental that she actually had one." Those people need to shutup. Sorry, no abductor is just gonna knock & hazard a guess at a name that will get them in. Not only is "Uncle Joe" not as common as some of you seem to think it is, the overwhelming majority of the US population would have no uncle named Joe (or Joseph). An abductor would just assume break into the house & have the element of surprise than knock at the door at 3am & hope the resident knows an Uncle Joe. If it was an abduction, then it the perp most certainly knew the family


- Then some junk about a medicine woman. If you put any stock in this, then I've got a bridge to sell you




- The little sister's story is full of gaping holes large enough to drive a brown van through. A pair of 5 & 9 year old girls are the ones that answer the door at 3am? The abductors (or the 5 year old) take the time to lose the door behind them after Anthonette is taken? The 5 year old doesn't tell a soul about this for 5 years? The next morning, the 5 year old just acts like the sister missing is not at all related to what she saw the night before? Is this 5 year old the greatest child actor of all time?

- Not sure what to make of that story, all I know is that it didn't happen the way she says it did. My first inclination is to assume the 5 year old had dreams similar to the story she espoused after her older sister went missing. She probably had similar dreams pretty frequently eventually she just believed that is what happened? That's still pretty flimsy. Maybe she was told to give this story? I dunno, but what I do know is there's zero chance the events of that night happened as portrayed in her story. She was scared to tell her mom what happened? Ok, but at first the mom didn't know Anthonette was missing. She was scared to simply say, oh Uncle Joe (or someone claiming to be Uncle Joe) came by & grabbed her?




- This whole story is just weird. A likely hoaxed phone call & the fishy story of the sister means I have to keep open the idea that the mom is involved somehow. Did a little googling on the mother & indeed, I saw that she reportedly failed a lie detector test, was known to be a bit of a partier/drinker & the neighbors would not have thought it weird for people to be coming & going at that time of night. There were also some reports of her mother being involved in drugs, but those didn't seem to be as validated as the other reports, so not putting much stock into it


All told, I'm pretty positive that the mother knew what happened to her daughter and that she is likely the reason behind Anthonette's disappearance


I just posted a 'Joe' is a common name lol.
But even in thinking that, i too agree with all your thoughts.
I havent seen the video yet so i had no idea about the 2 girls opened the door at that time of morning. where was the mother? and the younger one didnt tell anyone what happened??? what the hell. i need to google this case more haha
Did they ever investigate this real life Uncle Joe?
was the mum into drugs?
Definitely seems really suspicious.
Reminds me of Madeline McCann a little.

A simple story of a girl is taken by a stranger, isnt as simple as it should be because the actions of the parents are making it look too planned and too many details left out.

I'm sure this has already been put out there, but...

If Mom had a lot of male characters in and out of the home, there's a good chance that this family had a lot of "uncles." I've found it's fairly common for kids to call non-blood relatives "Uncle Mike" or "Uncle Steve." So the little girl opening the door for "Uncle Joe" could be plausible.

That being said-- there are a lot of inconsistencies in Mom's story. I have no doubt she was involved in drugs and is covering her tracks. Maybe Anthonette's disappearance was related to Mom's activities....

I'm sure this has already been put out there, but...

If Mom had a lot of male characters in and out of the home, there's a good chance that this family had a lot of "uncles." I've found it's fairly common for kids to call non-blood relatives "Uncle Mike" or "Uncle Steve." So the little girl opening the door for "Uncle Joe" could be plausible.

This is an excellent point.

The family was also Native. I'm not sure if this is a practice with the Navajo or any other tribe, but it's extremely common among Pacific Islander children to call ANY woman or man "auntie" or "uncle". "Uncle Joe" could have been a family friend or even a mere acquaintance.

Anyone else slightly suspicious of Anthonette's sister's story, besides me?

According to this article:

http://hubpages.com/hub/missing-disappeared-unsolved-mysteries-anthonette-cayedito

Penny returned home after midnight to relieve the babysitter. So if Wendy's account is accurate, Penny was home when Anthonette was abducted! Why didn't she immediately run to wake her mother up to tell her some men just abducted her? And why would these men (strangers or known to the family) show up at 3 a.m. to abduct her? How would they know she was awake? What would have happened if Penny answered the door? Or Wendy?

The whole story doesn't add up, IMO.

Anyone else slightly suspicious of Anthonette's sister's story, besides me?No, I think people put too much stock in it, actually.

There are stronger cases of eyewitness testimony that have proved to be false, and this one just isn't very descriptive or clear. Or sensical, honestly.

I want to believe the abduction story, and that Anthonette made the 911 call, and that it was Anthonette at the diner. I believed it all when I was much younger, but now that I'm older, I'm beginning to change my mind, or at least question what I believe happened to Anthonette.

I'm finding it very hard to believe that Anthonette heard a knock at the door, emerged from her bedroom at 3AM with her sister, and opened the door, only for the kidnapper to take Anthonette and not her sister. This doesn't seem plausible because most kids, regardless of parenting, are asleep at 3AM. My own daughter used to go outside all the time by herself, to the point where I had to put new locks that she couldn't open/reach on the doors. However, when someone knocked, she got freaked out and came running for me or her mom, either super excited or super scared. She would never open the door, even if I told her to (and after I started watching UM a lot on the forbidden site, I stopped telling her to do so, as it's just too dangerous). It's just very hard for me to believe that Anthonette opened the door at 3AM.

Kidnappers and abductors don't want to be seen or caught. They don't conduct abductions in this manner.

The only way this happens is if the kidnapper wanted the family to know who took Anthonette from the moment she was taken. There had to be a reason for him to want the family to know, and I'll address this theory a little farther down in my post.

There's ZERO chance that the kidnapper knew that Anthonette would open the door. Kids are unpredictable. Even if he knocked on that door 99 times, and Anthonette opened it 99 times, I still wouldn't be on Anthonette opening the door on the 100th knock. It would be much easier for him to simply break into the house and take a sleeping Anthonette from her bed. It's likely she wouldn't even wake up if he was quiet and careful. If Anthonette isn't screaming, it's likely that he wouldn't attract that much attention in the apartment complex. This is completely preferable to taking a chance on her opening the door at 3AM and dragging her away, kicking and screaming, for the rest of the family and neighbors to hear.

I don't know how Anthonette went missing. It's just as likely that she went missing in a completely different manner from the story that's been presented.

Let's just assume, for the sake of this thread, that some of the details presented about her disappearance are true. I think some crucial information is missing. I'd say that two theories I believe are very possible are:

1) Her mother owed a large drug debt to a drug dealer. Anthonette was taken, either as a threat or payment. If she was taken as a threat then the kidnapping occurred in order to get her mother to pay up. If her mother couldn't or refused to pay this debt, then three likely outcomes emerge:

1A) She was killed, to send a message to Penny and other customers that if you don't pay then bad things can and will happen.
1B) She was sold, either into slavery or prostitution, to "settle" the debt.
1C) Maybe the kidnapper had an Alpha Dog moment, and realized that if he returned Anthonette, whether the debt was paid or not, that he was looking at serious jail time. So he kills her.

2) Something happened to Anthonette, either accidentally and intentionally, and since there was an investigation, Penny had to come up with a story of why she was missing.

2A) Under the influence of drugs, Penny just didn't watch Anthonette closely enough, and she did something and accidentally died, or Penny failed to summon help and Anthonette died.
2B) Anthonette got into Penny's drug stash and overdosed. Fearing imprisonment, Penny hides this fact by making up an abduction story. There's really no physical evidence of an abduction, so she uses things like the medicine woman, and coaches her other daughter about what happened that night. My daughter is 5, and she's very smart, but I could convince her that we went to the moon last year, to the point that she would tell other people that we went to the moon, and give details about what we did on the moon. I don't discount any child's account of anything that happens, but I never take them completely at their word, either.
2C) Penny, either under the influence of drugs, or in a rage, killed Anthonette. Rather than go to jail for murder, she covers up the crime and claims Anthonette was kidnapped.

As a wildcard, I'll also throw this out there:

3) Anthonette was sold by Penny for money. There are reports that Penny bought an expensive car shortly after Anthonette disappeared, even though they lived in a poor area of town. I have a hard time believing that she did this because:
3A) She still had parental responsibilities since she didn't sell all of her children.
3B) If she needed money for drugs, she could have gone into prostitution as a way to sustain her drug habit, or simply shacked up with a drug dealer.

I only present this third theory because maybe her search, appearance on Unsolved Mysteries, etc. was a result of remorse or guilt from selling her daughter. Once the money was no longer needed, or gone, or failed to bring her the desired happiness, maybe she wanted her daughter back. Maybe she was trying to burn her candle at both ends, and since she already had the money, figured the FBI could get Anthonette back. It's highly unlikely the buyer would emerge and demand either his/her money or Anthonette to be returned to him or her if the FBI found her and returned her to Penny. This sounds outrageous, but it's not impossible.

I think the FBI knew that Penny was lying, but were never able to acquire enough evidence to either locate Anthonette or, if she was deceased, her body. They wanted the deathbed confession to close the case, so they could stop wasting resources on a non-abduction case, or to focus their efforts with the information she could have provided.

I'm still open to the entire abduction theory, but I think if an abduction was actually what happened, that it went down much different from the reenactment in the segment. I also think there are people, likely Anthonette's parents, who know much, much more than they are revealing.

I think those are interesting and fair theories, Far Off Promise.

The only problem I have is the statement that "kidnappers don't conduct kidnappings in this manner." The facts of this case, as they are presented, are similar to both Elizabeth Smart and Polly Klaas, who were taken by strangers in front of witnesses. Although I generally feel your statement is correct, I just wanted to throw that out there.

I didn't know about Mom and the new car. That's certainly interesting, to say the least...

i totally agree about the way of kidnapping. HOW would they know knocking at the door wouldnt wake someone else in the house, what if the mother heard it and opened the door. what if she had a boyfriend staying that night? its 3am the house would be dead silent, what did they do just quietly tap on the door and hope a kid would hear it? it doesnt make any sense.
i think someone sneaking into a window and kidnapping a kid is more believable but actually knocking and having like a 99% chance of waking the parents, no kidnapper would do that. i think they definitely had to have known the family for them to know there wouldnt be anyone else in the house, especially if the mother didnt get home til midnight, coz she could have brought anyone back with her., and also that the mother might be into drugs and be asleep deep enough a knock wouldnt wake her.

I'm sure the babysitter would have been able to tell the police if Penny looked or acted like she was drunk or high when she returned home at midnight. But that doesn't mean she didn't have anything after she arrived home.

The timeline we have been given afterwards is just a rough idea but nothing exact. For instance, Penny told the police that after she got home at midnight, all the children stayed up until 3:00 a.m. Wendy later tells police that she witnessed Anthonette get abducted around 3:00 a.m. So, how long after going to bed did this happen? Maybe she was mistaken by the time?

If Wendy was coached to make up that story, any sort of kidnapping could have been arranged and carried out during those several hours. We don't really know if any other visitors came over after the babysitter left. What did Penny do with the girls until 3:00 a.m.? Watch TV? Play games? (When I was that young, there's no way I'd have the will power to stay awake until 3:00 a.m. even if I tried.)

If everything did go down like Wendy said, take a good look at the rooms and front doorway in the segment to get a feel of the actual scene of the crime because the reenactment was filmed at the Cayedito house.

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad64/andy80_bucket/Anthonette2_zpsd78e55f7.jpg

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad64/andy80_bucket/Anthonette1_zps532c2807.jpg

If the babysitter was relieved at midnight, that places Penny inside the house with her daughters for the three hours leading up to the "abduction". Her sister says 3 a.m., but it could have occurred any time after the babysitter left until the next morning when Penny asked neighbors if they saw Anthonette. What is odd to me is how Penny heard none of this alleged abduction. She didn't hear knocks, didn't her Anthonette struggling, etc. Wendy made no effort to get her mother after seeing her sister being abducted. That's a huge red flag. And she didn't tell the story for 5 years after the fact. Another huge red flag. Is a child's memory going to be that precise 5 years after the fact? Their house was small, so we also have to factor that in as to why Penny didn't hear the knocks and (possibly) Anthonette screaming/struggling. Penny also failed a polygraph and detectives wanted to talk to her on her deathbed. That's very telling. They have all of the information on this case (whereas we only have the UM segment and bits and pieces of information online), and they still considered her a POI in the case. It wouldn't surprise me (if Anthonette was abducted in the way her sister described) that Penny knew it was going to happen. Of course an accidental death is also a fairly good possibility.

wow the house is tiny. kinda creepy seeing it and knowing the story.
what on earth was she doing with the children until 3am in the morning?
wouldnt they have been put to bed. or at least tired. i get they were probably waiting up with the babysitter for mum to get home, but why stay up 3 more hours
maybe something happened and she died, either by accident of her mother or one of the siblings and their first thought was just hide her and say she was abducted
How many children were there? just the 2?

Remember, it may not have been 3 am. When I was 5, I remember being awake a 9 or 10pm, thinking it was way later than it actually was.

Also.....this might sound racist, but it really isn't meant to be. I live in northern AZ, near the Navajo reservation, and know MANY many Navajo families, and have baby sat for a few. Most, while good people, more or less let their kids do whatever the hell they want. So, if they were indeed up running around at 3am unsupervised, I'm not surprised at all.

This is one of the cases I remember so much about but I was so young when it was on that I just bought everything that was said in the segment. Now, reading these replies, it totally makes sense to me that it didn't go down the way it was told and that the mother probably in some way had something to do with it. Whether it was from knowing "bad people" to an accident to who knows what, I just think the story is pretty implausible as it was told.

There's ZERO chance that the kidnapper knew that Anthonette would open the door. Kids are unpredictable. Even if he knocked on that door 99 times, and Anthonette opened it 99 times, I still wouldn't be on Anthonette opening the door on the 100th knock.


I think it's possible that someone acquainted with the family's habits could have had the expectation that one of the children would open the door. It's possible that Anthonette wasn't the specific target, just whatever daughter answered the door.

It sounds like the parents were known to patronize bars at late hours, as well as possibly being involved in drug culture. In such a circumstance, it wouldn't be uncommon for the kids to be left to fend for themselves for hours at a time, or even for one of the older children to take on a caretaker role - such as answering the door when the parents were out or were incapacitated due to drugs or alcohol.

I think it's possible that the mother had some involvement, but in this case it's just as much a possibility that someone connected to the family took advantage of the situation, and the mother was refraining from admitting certain aspects of that evening that wouldn't have made her look like the most responsible parent (leaving the kids unnattended, for example).

I think it's possible that the mother had some involvement, but in this case it's just as much a possibility that someone connected to the family took advantage of the situation, and the mother was refraining from admitting certain aspects of that evening that wouldn't have made her look like the most responsible parent (leaving the kids unattended, for example).

Well put. These are my feelings exactly.

This is one of the cases I remember so much about but I was so young when it was on that I just bought everything that was said in the segment. Now, reading these replies, it totally makes sense to me that it didn't go down the way it was told and that the mother probably in some way had something to do with it. Whether it was from knowing "bad people" to an accident to who knows what, I just think the story is pretty implausible as it was told.

It's troubling to think about. My personal opinion is that Penny probably knew more than she originally said. But she does seem pretty sincere in the interview, especially the part where she recounts listening to the phone call.